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Episode Discussion II: The TFGH


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Culture Check: How can we discuss a character's or actor's appearance without objectifying them? How can we express likes or dislikes and still respect an individual's humanity or be mindful that a character represents a person someone else might relate to or identify with?

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14 hours ago, driver18 said:

I don't care that Lulu is not realistically portraying a just come out of a coma patient. Why? That would be beyond boring AF to watch. We got blurred vision, no makeup, chapped lips, weak legs, so weak that she fell down and she's punching her legs to try and get feeling in them. Works for me.

Same. It's a soap. Of course we aren't going to see the extended rehab Lulu would need IRL. That said, I think we could have seen Lulu be a bit less physical right after coming to. 

14 hours ago, PatsyandEddie said:

Is it me or do these people rush to clear out the deceased's belongings?

Depends on the person. I can see the family wanting to get it over with. After my dad died, my mom got rid of some stuff immediately. Other stuff she left until she felt emotionally ready.

12 hours ago, Suicidy said:

Wills are always dated.  

Even IRL, there are undated (and unsigned) wills that are presented in court as legit by heirs, and a judge has to untangle the mess. The show has a lot of leeway here, for a change.

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15 hours ago, PatsyandEddie said:

Is it me or do these people rush to clear out the deceased's belongings? 
My mother couldn’t go through my father’s clothes for weeks. We didn’t touch his things because we thought of them as belonging to her now. We helped her when she was ready.

My mother couldn't do it either, and that was okay.  When she died 12 years later, it was left to me to donate his things, and that was okay.

10 hours ago, Suicidy said:

Lulu’s return makes me think that ABC could develop spin off properties to create the GHU (General Hospital Universe).  This make sense as Disney owns ABC, and is really into that.

Several possible spin offs include:

I like it! Can I add Secrets of the Canvas: Trina and Ava look into art forgeries and works that have been stolen by invaders from their real owners.

5 hours ago, Jeni said:

 DH and I stipulated TOGETHER our wishes for our minor children should we both become deceased at the same time (when they were minor children) but I couldn’t imagine either one of us would have had the right to “will” the kids to a non parent  in the event of only one of our deaths. I realize Sam wasn’t currently married to the fathers but that should be irrelevant.  

Same. It was a relief when mine got to be old enough to live on their own because no option was really great.

I can understand Dante and Sam not talking about it because they weren't married so that while they functioned as a family, there was no stamp of permanence on it. Plus the kids were his and hers, and they had other family members. Maybe if they had had a child in common, they would have worked something out.

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12 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

I can understand Dante and Sam not talking about it because they weren't married so that while they functioned as a family, there was no stamp of permanence on it. Plus the kids were his and hers, and they had other family members. Maybe if they had had a child in common, they would have worked something out.

I wonder if Sam wasn't still married to Drew when the will was drawn up. I don't think Sam would be okay with Drew moving her children to DC away from their grandmother, aunts, their Q family and so on. 

In any case, November 11th episode seems to point to there being a more recent will.

At 2:08 minutes.

Edited by YaddaYadda
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I don’t remember Monica ever calling herself ‘ chief.’ It was always Dr. Quartermaine and that’s how she addressed her staff, when she didn’t use their first names. Doesn’t Terry refer to herself as ‘Dr.’ When she’s on the phone?  Why is Portia so hung up on her title?

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19 minutes ago, Sake614 said:

 Doesn’t Terry refer to herself as ‘Dr.’ When she’s on the phone?  Why is Portia so hung up on her title?

Yes. Terry did it when she called Sam to the hospital about being Lulu's liver donor. I think Portia uses her title because she is driven by a need to feel in control and in charge. As we all have seen, she just can't face the possibility of life not turning out in ways that don't suit her wants and needs. That's why she was never honest with Marcus and Curtis about Trina's paternity. That's why she kept trying to control and manipulate Trina's relationship with Spencer. That's why she has verbally attacked Laura (and Elizabeth with Laura) as well as changed the cobalt test results for Heather. That's why she went to Elizabeth, looking for fault in Brad's performance so she could get rid of him.

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1 hour ago, Sake614 said:

Why is Portia so hung up on her title?

It's probably to remind the viewers that Portia isn't just some generic law-breaking doctor, she's the co–head honcho at GH.

Lately I feel like the show is really going hard on people's professional titles, familial relationships, etc., as if we're all new to things.

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Really enjoyed watching Alexis try to drill some sense into Drew and Jason.

Two old deadbeat dads who are more worried about giving up “what’s mine, damn it!” than doing what’s best for their kids.

(Jason sounded more amiable to Alexis about letting Danny decide, but going to Mobster Dad for help negates this completely.)

I wonder if the writers see this as a noble stance from both fathers instead of the pride filled egotistical take I see it as.

Kai seems like a good new character but the plot with Trina is SO boring - girl deserves better. Couldn’t they make him an artist from the gallery instead? Also, does the actor have bruises on the right side of his face or do they come from a plot point I missed?

I skipped over the Michael whining to Sasha about his wife, at her place of work owned by his family because… yuck.

The weird pacing seems to be back, Lulu wakes up and then… nothing.

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It is typical of Jason to say that Danny should be the one to decide where he lives. But Danny is a teenager (with an immature frontal cortex) and while he should be asked about what he wants, the final decisions should not be up to him.

Drew has really become a sleaze -- implying to Alexis that Jason is violent for no reason and dangerous to the kids when Jason had a good reason to hit Drew.

And speaking of creepy guys, TJ saying that "the two most self-=selfish people he know" remembered Molly's birthday but he didn't, and then justifying his lack of caring for Molly, propped up by his mother. Isaiah deserves better.

1 hour ago, YaddaYadda said:

I wonder if Sam wasn't still married to Drew when the will was drawn up. I don't think Sam would be okay with Drew moving her children to DC away from their grandmother, aunts, their Q family and so on. 

In any case, November 11th episode seems to point to there being a more recent will.

Drew doesn't care. At least Jason is going to let Danny get a vote.

Is it all going to get resolved with a new will?  Typical GH lazy writing.

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NLG is such an excellent actress when Alexis is in pain. The way she said "your drama" to Drew and Jason and looked like it was taking everything in her not to backhand both of them, was awesome.

Jason, you conceived a son with a woman, your friend, whose husband had also been your friend in the past, so shut UP about Drew living up to the Q name. Well, so did Michael since he slept with Sasha before Willow actually slept with Drew. The hypocrisy, it burns.

I call b.s. that Drew will stand firm on not giving up Scout to Alexis.  Alexis rightly looked pissed at the condescending way he spoke to her. 

 

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25 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:

Lately I feel like the show is really going hard on people's professional titles, familial relationships, etc., as if we're all new to things.

They've been doing that for a year or two now. I don't mind Portia keeping it professional at the workplace but I do find the 'co-Chief of Staff' situation ridiculous.

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2 minutes ago, Desperado said:

Two old deadbeat dads who are more worried about giving up “what’s mine, damn it!” than doing what’s best for their kids.

(Jason sounded more amiable to Alexis about letting Danny decide, but going to Mobster Dad for help negates this completely.)

Jason flat out stated he wouldn't make a decision that moment. He isn't okay with Sam's will because of the date (and now knowing what he knows, doesn't trust Drew.) I got the impression that he was just venting to Sonny, but Sonny's reaction is of course predictable. From the preview, it looks like Jason goes to Dante for help/advice/to vent about what's best for Danny and Scout. He already knows Danny wants to stay with and look after Scout.

Drew implying that Jason might beat Danny the way he handled Drew when upset was gross. And he's convinced himself that he's a loving, devoted father to Scout so he does his best to shut her down when Alexis asserts herself. 

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(edited)
18 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

Is it all going to get resolved with a new will?  Typical GH lazy writing.

I don't know. But since they said that Diane was the one who made the will Alexis has, then maybe they should ask Diane if Sam made a new one? Logic is not this show's forte. Instead of asking Molly if she knew anything about Sam's will, go to your law firm partner.

I feel sorry for Dante, but Chase inviting him to live with the Qs, I don't know man, that's not your house. And how many rooms do they have there? Does it just expand to accommodate the number of people moving in, then shrinks back when they move out?

I like how everyone knows that Jason and Drew threw fists. And Drew, trying to gaslight everyone under the sun. Jason is violent, but he didn't punch you for shits and giggles, although I'm sure he'd like have done that. And he would never beat his son since Drew seemed to imply that for some reason. He reeks of smug, and please leave Scout alone. That little girl deserves better than this clown. Even Jason looks better. Not by much, but better.

Scenes with Joss not being relentlessly smug 🤔

Michael won't confront Willow about sleeping with Drew because he'll have to come clean about straying from his marriage. You're such a wet stinky dishrag, Michael. Never change 🙄

Edited by YaddaYadda
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LOL at Dex fangirling over QB1. I refuse to believe that the "state-of-the-art training facility" at PCU doesn't have a boxing section.

Overreact much, Chase? Entering the penthouse with your gun drawn, even if the door was open, is unnecessary.

When LA was playing Kristina, I often felt as if MB spat his lines at her; whenever Sonny called Kristina "sweetheart" it felt like a threat. But with KM, he seems more relaxed.

Good grief, Drew is a big baby. Just listen to what Alexis has to say, you pathetic loser.

11 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

Jason had a good reason to hit Drew.

I disagree. Violence is not a proper response, but if anyone were to punch Drew, it should have been that wienie Michael. He needs to talk to Willow no matter what, but of course he doesn't. What a coward.

14 minutes ago, Bringonthedrama said:

The way she said "your drama" to Drew and Jason and looked like it was taking everything in her not to backhand both of them, was awesome.

The way she emphasized it by widening her eyes was amazing.

Sonny whining about his custody problems with Ava was rich considering he's the one who started the whole thing.

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When Sonny invited Kristina to work for him, I expected her to say, with incredulity: "You want me to be a hitwoman?!"

It's nice to see some functional, non-predatory male friendships on screen in Dante/Cody and Dante/Chase.  Back in the day, Kevin and Mac had that kind of friendship, and I guess Robert and Sean had one (although Sean was a scoundrel).

Re: the kids--Jason is right to ask Danny what he wants, but he can't do it in his usual detached way.  Parents help guide their kids to the right decision, they don't just sit back and wait for it.  I actually think Danny would do best to talk it through individually with Alexis, and with Dante, who will only want what's best for him.  And, although she ultimately will have no say, someone needs to talk it out with Scout.  I don't trust Drew to do that effectively.

If you didn't look at your screen, and just listened to Alexis scolding the two man-boys, you would have thought she was talking to 10 year olds.  No offense intended 10 year olds.

How pathetic is it that a grown man has to ask someone to make him a snack, Michael?  I get that everything about what Willow/Drew and Sasha/Michael did was wrong, but I don't get why Michael would have to confess his ONS with Sasha if he confronts Willow about having had sex with Drew.  Would it be too morally repugnant to him not to?  More morally repugnant than covering up for his murderous father?

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4 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

Same. It's a soap. Of course we aren't going to see the extended rehab Lulu would need IRL. That said, I think we could have seen Lulu be a bit less physical right after coming to. 

I'll give her pass on this. She just woke up, not knowing how long she's been out. She discovers she's had some kind of surgery, and she hears people -- some of dubious character -- talking about her outside her door, not knowing she's awake, and no one comes into her room.  If I were her, I'd be thinking an organ had been harvested.  I'd be fighting to get myself upland moving  ASAP. 

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50 minutes ago, YaddaYadda said:

I feel sorry for Dante, but Chase inviting him to live with the Qs, I don't know man, that's not your house. And how many rooms do they have there? Does it just expand to accommodate the number of people moving in, then shrinks back when they move out?

The house is like Q stock shares--they expand any time a new person shows up.

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I’ve turned it into a (not actual) drinking game where I take a mental shot every time Kristina refers to baby Adela. Sonny and Joss actually looked uncomfortable when she did it today. Just call her Irene!

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Very arrogant of Drew to think that Scout needs to be with her deadbeat father in Washington rather than with her family in Port Charles.

Jason didn't have the right to hit Drew but if there is a custody battle brewing, all he has to do is tell Drew that he will make public that Drew slept with Willow. Drew will fold like a cheap suit.

Michael is such a weenie, although CD did a good job on today's show.

Is Diane away mourning the loss of her relationship with Robert?  You can do better, Diane, than a man who wants Holly no matter what.

The painting in Diane/Alexis' office looks like a bunch of Post-it notes on a bulletin board. It would drive me crazy to have to see it.

Yesterday's show:  Portia referring to herself as "Chief Robinson" so one of the hospital's doctors or addressing Liz as "Nurse Baldwin" is so pretentious. Didn't Portia and Liz socialize a few times? Portia really should be using first names with her.

It's a huge overstep of Portia to suggest that Liz should have a union rep there, suggesting that Liz is responsible for Sam's death.

Are the scenes with Lulu present day or flashbacks to when she was in Turning Wood just before her liver crashed? It's very confusing. I thought that the doctor talking to Cyrus said how much she's improved now that Laura brought her to Turning Wood and the room doesn't look like a GH room.

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(edited)
41 minutes ago, JMO said:

It's nice to see some functional, non-predatory male friendships on screen in Dante/Cody and Dante/Chase.  Back in the day, Kevin and Mac had that kind of friendship, and I guess Robert and Sean had one (although Sean was a scoundrel).

But Sean reformed! And became the Police Commissioner! And he was DAMNED good!

16 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

Are the scenes with Lulu present day or flashbacks to when she was in Turning Wood just before her liver crashed? It's very confusing

No, she was at another facility when she first went into a coma-and it was there her liver started to fail because the meds were hurting her or something. She was sent to Turning Woods after her surgery because Laura had heard they were better. But apparently Turning Woods has also never heard of HIPAA either.

Edited by GHScorpiosRule
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7 hours ago, sashabear21 said:

The way Portia says "Nurse Baldwin" makes me want to reach through my screen and throttle her.  I've worked at hospitals before that were great places to work and had amazing reputations and then one asshole got put in charge and the whole dynamic shifted and Portia reminds me of one of those assholes.  Just the condescension dripping off her voice is insufferable! I hope the nurses go on strike, the hospital gets a lawsuit, and Portia loses her damn medical license for the Heather test results tampering.  They can make Brad co-CoS, I don't even care if it doesn't make any sense! 

Team Brad all the way.  He may be kind of weak and opportunistic, but he isn’t an asshole, nor is he really awful.  Even though he is looked down upon by the likes of Sonny, Carly, Michael, and other assholes whose crimes are far more severe and are too numerous to list

Plus there’s something that’s endearing about Brad the way Parry Shen plays him.  

7 hours ago, sashabear21 said:

The way Portia says "Nurse Baldwin" makes me want to reach through my screen and throttle her.  I've worked at hospitals before that were great places to work and had amazing reputations and then one asshole got put in charge and the whole dynamic shifted and Portia reminds me of one of those assholes.  Just the condescension dripping off her voice is insufferable! I hope the nurses go on strike, the hospital gets a lawsuit, and Portia loses her damn medical license for the Heather test results tampering.  They can make Brad co-CoS, I don't even care if it doesn't make any sense! 

Team Brad all the way.  He may be kind of weak and opportunistic, but he isn’t an asshole, nor is he really awful.  Even though he is looked down upon by the likes of Sonny, Carly, Michael, and other assholes whose crimes are far more severe and are too numerous to list

Plus there’s something that’s endearing about Brad the way Parry Shen plays him.  

7 hours ago, sashabear21 said:

The way Portia says "Nurse Baldwin" makes me want to reach through my screen and throttle her.  I've worked at hospitals before that were great places to work and had amazing reputations and then one asshole got put in charge and the whole dynamic shifted and Portia reminds me of one of those assholes.  Just the condescension dripping off her voice is insufferable! I hope the nurses go on strike, the hospital gets a lawsuit, and Portia loses her damn medical license for the Heather test results tampering.  They can make Brad co-CoS, I don't even care if it doesn't make any sense! 

Team Brad all the way.  He may be kind of weak and opportunistic, but he isn’t an asshole, nor is he really awful.  Even though he is looked down upon by the likes of Sonny, Carly, Michael, and other assholes whose crimes are far more severe and are too numerous to list

Plus there’s something that’s endearing about Brad the way Parry Shen plays him.  

7 hours ago, sashabear21 said:

The way Portia says "Nurse Baldwin" makes me want to reach through my screen and throttle her.  I've worked at hospitals before that were great places to work and had amazing reputations and then one asshole got put in charge and the whole dynamic shifted and Portia reminds me of one of those assholes.  Just the condescension dripping off her voice is insufferable! I hope the nurses go on strike, the hospital gets a lawsuit, and Portia loses her damn medical license for the Heather test results tampering.  They can make Brad co-CoS, I don't even care if it doesn't make any sense! 

Team Brad all the way.  He may be kind of weak and opportunistic, but he isn’t an asshole, nor is he really awful.  Even though he is looked down upon by the likes of Sonny, Carly, Michael, and other assholes whose crimes are far more severe and are too numerous to list

Plus there’s something that’s endearing about Brad the way Parry Shen plays him.  

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6 minutes ago, Suicidy said:

Team Brad all the way.  He may be kind of weak and opportunistic, but he isn’t an asshole, nor is he really awful.  Even though he is looked down upon by the likes of Sonny, Carly, Michael, and other assholes whose crimes are far more severe and are too numerous to list

Plus there’s something that’s endearing about Brad the way Parry Shen plays him.

Quadruple post!!😄😄😄

But agree! Team Brad!

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1 hour ago, dubbel zout said:

LOL at Dex fangirling over QB1. I refuse to believe that the "state-of-the-art training facility" at PCU doesn't have a boxing section.

Overreact much, Chase? Entering the penthouse with your gun drawn, even if the door was open, is unnecessary.

When LA was playing Kristina, I often felt as if MB spat his lines at her; whenever Sonny called Kristina "sweetheart" it felt like a threat. But with KM, he seems more relaxed.

Good grief, Drew is a big baby. Just listen to what Alexis has to say, you pathetic loser.

I disagree. Violence is not a proper response, but if anyone were to punch Drew, it should have been that wienie Michael. He needs to talk to Willow no matter what, but of course he doesn't. What a coward.

The way she emphasized it by widening her eyes was amazing.

Sonny whining about his custody problems with Ava was rich considering he's the one who started the whole thing.

Jason punching Drew is a guy thing.  Drew had it coming, and a Michael is limited by the fact that A) he probably couldn’t sucker punch Drew, and B) Drew is about 15 years below Michael’s age cut off to punch someone.

5 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Quadruple post!!😄😄😄

But agree! Team Brad!

Yeah, that kind of got away from me.  But it can’t be said enough.  And I would be happy to get rid of two or three other characters to keep him around and in the foreground.  He needs another friend that’s at least half as fun as Britt was.

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I actually enjoy all the medical characters right now, or at least the actors who play them. Poor Brook Kerr has drawn the short straw in the writing, and a combination of "imperious" and "keeping a dangerous secret" does not bring out the best in her as an actor (she tightens up and becomes brittle), but I fundamentally like BK and want to like Portia again. I like the scenes of everyone else in that corner of the show. Yes, including the NuLucas guy, who's had a lot of out-of-bounds stuff thrown at him on other GH forums where anything goes.

I wasn't sure how Liz as head nurse was going to play, but Liz/Becky has found her own style. That character has subtly matured overall, just in the last few years. Now she can speak with authority and the weight of experience (for example, when dropping truths on Lucky, or eulogizing Sam) without seeming to be trying too hard for it. 

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49 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

It's a huge overstep of Portia to suggest that Liz should have a union rep there, suggesting that Liz is responsible for Sam's death.

Is it an overstep? Portia is doing a professional review of Elizabeth's team, actions of which could have led to a patient's death. If I were Elizabeth, I'd definitely have my union rep there to make sure Portia doesn't railroad me into something. We know she has no compunction blaming others. (Not that I think it's Portia's direct fault that Sam died—security at GH sucks if someone can go into a patient's room and inject them with an unordered drug, so that is on her—but she certainly is happy to have someone to point to.)

22 minutes ago, Suicidy said:

Jason punching Drew is a guy thing.  Drew had it coming, and a Michael is limited by the fact that A) he probably couldn’t sucker punch Drew, and B) Drew is about 15 years below Michael’s age cut off to punch someone.

That makes it even worse, IMO. But it's typical of the Corinthii to send someone else (usually Jason) to do their dirty work. All three of these guys are garbage.

46 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

[Lulu] was sent to Turning Woods after her surgery because Laura had heard they were better.

Lulu is there because GH isn't a long-term care facility. Turning Woods is supposedly the better choice in the area. I don't think it's the Facility that Jax Found, though.

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1 hour ago, statsgirl said:

The painting in Diane/Alexis' office looks like a bunch of Post-it notes on a bulletin board. It would drive me crazy to have to see it.

Lol. I thought I must be the only one who couldn't concentrate on the scene because I kept looking at the art.

The thing is that I can't quite decide if I like it or hate it. (I have a weird love of post-it notes and office supplies in general.) But it bothered me. 

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12 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:

Turning Woods is supposedly the better choice in the area. I don't think it's the Facility that Jax Found, though.

(That will never not be funny)

Right, I don't believe it is.  It is, however, where Mike took forever to go into the light.  /mean 

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Oh goodie, are we gearing up for another custody battle? Don’t we already have Sonny and Ava in a custody battle, Molly and Kristina fighting for custody of naming rights over a dead baby, and I’m sure soon enough we’ll have Michael and Willow fighting over who has to take Wiley and what’s her name. Did we really need another one? I mean this show doesn’t even honor the custody wishes of characters who leave the canvas still alive. Wasn’t Violet supposed to live with Elizabeth? 

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(edited)
50 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:

Lulu is there because GH isn't a long-term care facility. Turning Woods is supposedly the better choice in the area. I don't think it's the Facility that Jax Found, though.

Right, but she was sent to a different long-term facility after she fell into a coma. Laura didn’t want to send her back there. It was in NYC, apparently. And Turning Woods is closer to Port Charles. Laura said this onscreen so it’s not like second hand information.

Edited by GHScorpiosRule
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(edited)
24 minutes ago, Cheyanne11 said:

It is, however, where Mike took forever to go into the light.  /mean 

That alone should lead to its decertification.

/meaner, but I don't care

Edited by dubbel zout
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So I was half listening to Jordan having lunch and thought she had a relaxed playful chemistry with whatever guy she was talking to and I look at the TV and it's TJ! Doh! 🫢 😬

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20 hours ago, rur said:

I'm not sure Turning Woods is as wonderful a facility as everyone says. Lulu was hooked up to all kinds of machines. I would think someone's vitals would change when they awoke from a coma, and they would definitely change when said coma patient began moving about and trying to get out of bed. However, no one came in, not even the doctor who stood outside the door talking to Cyrus after she awoke.  

Also, I know that Laura has been a bit distracted, but how the Hell does she allow Lulu to be placed in "the Facility that Cyrus Found?"

So it appears that true to the Spencer that she is, NuNuNu Lulu (I like the way that sounds) is going to fake still being comatose until her Mother shows up?  With Cyrus lurking around, that would be a very smart play (does she know he's her Uncle?). Luke would have approved.

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Jason suddenly cares about rights, being a parent? He's going to put Danny where?  He wasn't alive because Carly and her children having her as parent took priority over his son's. 

Jason no being a parent doesn't mean he's supposed to allow Danny to make his own choices. 

Dex is a Llanview fan. Lol 

I think Chase right, Dante needs to stay with the kids and he's the best parent for them. Even if half the town will be living at the Q's. 

 

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I've never had any complaints with Liz in the hospital setting. She's always clicked there surprisingly well. I do think BK does very well projecting authority as Portia, even when not all her moves are professional lol (but what doctor's are on a soap opera?). I think she's always been a keeper and seriously impressed me considering she spent years on Passions. I just wish Justus Ward was back from the dead to whisk Portia off her feet. Curtis will always be a cold fish.

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On 11/19/2024 at 11:39 AM, Daisy said:

also. there's only 3 lawyers
Dianne won't do it
Alexis is dealing with Sam
that leaves Ric

Don’t  forget Nora Buchanan and Martin offscreen.  But but they’re likely busy.  The GH pocket universe isn’t big enough for more lawyers than that.

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1 hour ago, graight said:

New drinking game:

Take a drink every time someone says, "Ava must pay." Or, "Ava must be punished." 

I value my liver too much.

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33 minutes ago, Suicidy said:

Don’t  forget Nora Buchanan and Martin offscreen.  But but they’re likely busy.  The GH pocket universe isn’t big enough for more lawyers than that.

And the very handsome Jackson Montgomery

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Culture Check: How can we discuss a character's or actor's appearance without objectifying them? How can we express likes or dislikes and still respect an individual's humanity or be mindful that a character represents a person someone else might relate to or identify with?

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