S02.E04: Beasts Of Burden

[maraleia]

 

After his caravan is viscously attacked in the badlands, a badly shaken Pottinger orders Nolan to hunt down and destroy those responsible. Nolan’s manhunt implicates one of Rafe’s miners causing tensions to explode.

 

[johntfs]

Do not anger the Stahma.  Angering the Stahma results in your pasty, self-righteous ass getting a beatdown arranged by the Stahma.

[HeySandyStrange]

Datak should've taken Stahma's deal. I think it is interesting that the rest of the Casti gang didn't seem to have a problem ganging up on him. I get the feeling he wasn't as popular before he went to prison as he thought.  Feared, maybe, but not popular.  Stahma seems to be employing the speak softly and carry a big stick form of leadership. Smart use of it on her part.

 

Pottinger is so shifty. I get the feeling he used (or made up) his sob story to get Amanda to play right into his hand. I feel she is being set up for something bad.

[SimoneS]

The Tarr family values, yikes! Stahma should have killed Datak. It is a huge mistake leaving him alive.

 

Ah, Amanda. I know she meant well, but I fear that she made a terrible mistake confiding in Pottinger.

 

I know for the show's sake that Nolan and Irisa cannot leave Defiance, but it is getting harder and harder to understand why they are staying. There is trouble and danger all around them.

 

I like Berlin a lot, but her suspicion about where Tommy's heart truly lies is correct. 

 

Poor Rafe. He is definitely hitting rock bottom, but at least his family loves him unlike Datak.

Edited July 11, 2014 by SimoneS

[johntfs]

 

The Tarr family values, yikes! Stahma should have killed Datak. It is a huge mistake leaving him alive.

 

Stahma knows the E-Rep had Datak released despite the fact that he murdered one of their high-ranking officers.  Therefore, the E-rep wants/needs something from him.  Therefore, it's best not to do anything irrevocable (like wasting his pasty ass) until Stahma can find out what the reason is and perhaps remove it, at which point she can kill him with relative impunity..

[AlliMo]

I really have to give props to the cast tonight. Jaime Murray, yowza - Stahma was practically vibrating with repressed rage. I'm a teeny bit concerned by how well Julie Benz played a high as balls Amanda. I liked that we got that little bit of fill in as to her and Connor's back story.

 

Too bad Datak couldn't take some of that new found control and apply it to dealing with his family. I knew that his underestimating them would be his downfall.

 

My favorite two things, however, may be Doc Yewell's snark, and the way that Nolan continually and cheerfully blows off Pottinger's posturing.

Edited July 11, 2014 by AlliMo

[SimoneS]

I thought Julie Benz did a good job as high Amanda and does a solid work all around. I really don't understand the criticism of her that pops up every now and then. It is not like the show is full of Oscar caliber actors. Everyone churns out decent performances. If the show has a weak link, it is the actor who plays Nolan. He swans around and seems to struggle with the more emotional material, but even he is good enough.

 

Pottinger's reaction to being told to strip and his story to Amanda makes me think that he was telling some version of a true event, whether he was the victim or the perpetrator.

 

I think that Christie needs to be more involved in her husband and father's ongoing dramas. 

Edited July 11, 2014 by SimoneS

[90PercentGravity]

Syfy is apparently trying to get as close to show nipple as they possibly can.

 

Cersei Lannister could take some lessons in manipulation from Stahma. Now the Stahma is clearly the HBIC, will Alak get to play with his records in peace?

[CletusMusashi]

I'm still very confused about their legal system. Are there courts, or judges, or... anything?  Basically, the show writers call up the Mayor every week and tell him who they need to be in jail and who they need to be out of it?

However, I'm not really watching the show for logic. I'm watching it for exciting character twists. Which I am enjoying.

Also, until told otherwise, I am assuming that Jessica's full name is Jessica Amber Lynn. "Berlin" for short.

[thuganomics85]

Well, hot damn!  That final scene was just so satisfying.  Yeah, I know both Tarr adults are basically two different kinds of evil, but I am totally on Team Stahma all the way.  As soon as she saw Alak's hand and his bad attempt at covering it up, it was obvious that Stahma has been pushed to the limit.  But, of course, it being Stahma, she refrained from jumping him on the spot, and waited for the right moment.  Now, Datak's got his ass beat and kicked out of the empire.  Those certain Castithans certainly had no issues taking orders from a woman.  The Tarr stuff is just awesome.  Tony Curran and especially Jaime Murray are just killing it, but credit to Jesse Rath too, who I feel like is stepping up this season, and actually holding his own.

 

Amanda's story-line was certainly dark.  I do wonder if there was any truth to Pottinger's story or is this just another way to try and get closer to her.  In his defense, I wouldn't think he would have known Amanda was raped, but I wonder if he had already had an exaggerated story in mind, in order to make him look more vulnerable.  I don't; I just don't trust him.

 

This was probably the most interesting Rafe has been, and allowed Graham Greene to be able to do more then just be gruff (even though I do enjoy it.)  Feel bad for Rafe, but I definitely was good with that guy going, after what he almost did to Berlin.  Glad she's OK, but she's totally right that Tommy will probably eventually get bored with her, and go back to Irisa.

 

Dr. Yewell didn't do much, but her few lines were hilarious as always.

 

This season is continuing to be a big improvement over last years.

[GaT]

Watching Datak getting his ass kicked was eminently satisfying, I hope it happens every week.

[johntfs]

 

Amanda's story-line was certainly dark.  I do wonder if there was any truth to Pottinger's story or is this just another way to try and get closer to her.  In his defense, I wouldn't think he would have known Amanda was raped, but I wonder if he had already had an exaggerated story in mind, in order to make him look more vulnerable.  I don't; I just don't trust him.

 

There's a fairly simple way for Pottinger to know that Amanda was raped - if he was the one who raped her and is now obsessively stalking his former victim.  I really hope that isn't it and I don't think it is since it's a little too pat and obvious, but oyu never know.

 

One of the best things about Datak's ass-whupping was that it was preceded by Datak violating Rule 45 of the Evil Overlord List:

 

I will make sure I have a clear understanding of who is responsible for what in my organization. For example, if my general screws up I will not draw my weapon, point it at him, say "And here is the price for failure," then suddenly turn and kill some random underling.

 

 

I can easily see Stahma hearing of that from Alak and then contacting the rest of the gang/underbosses with a simple question.  "Would you all prefer to continue to enjoy the rewards of success with me or become examples of the price of failure for my husband?"

[MrHufflepuff]

My take on it is that everyone still believes (or is pretending to believe) that Alak is calling the shots, which is why Stahma made Alak look at the beatdown.  This way, they get their 20% extra profits and things running smoothly and they get to pretend there's a male in charge, even if there isn't.  Alak inadvertently played into that by volunteering himself to be killed, and Datak inadvertently played into that by attacking the current Vizu(?) (Alak).  Stahma saw how to manipulate everyone and took her shot.

 

I'm not sure if I would even watch this show if it wasn't for Stahma (although it still annoys me that she killed of what's her name's sister).  Ah, who am I kidding?  What else am I going to watch?  Under the Dome?  Lol.

Edited July 11, 2014 by MrHufflepuff

[Izeinwinter]

That ambush was some quality shooting. But I suppose after decades of post apocalyptic mayhem, the mine had some people working there who knew their way around a rifle and our intrepid terrorist knew their names. 

 

Lets see, what else.. The E-rep is bringing in heavy digging gear and tech, but are not discussing expanding mining with Rafe. I'm still thinking it's about the reactor. It they want to fix it, that's going to need considerable earthworks. Cooling water diverted to it, access roads, high-voltage lines..

Maglev runs on electricity, not gulenite, after all.. 

 

I think Christie is endearing herself to her mother in law at the fastest possible pace. - she heard that little argument, I am pretty sure, and she's with the daughter in law.  That should lead to some fun down the road. 

 

Berlin is awesome. Can I have some more Berlin and Irisa interactions, please? The flirtier the better. 

[QuiGonJ]

Once again, that was impressive.

 

Be interesting to see where Rafe ends up, and yeah, I hope the Mayor isn't the one who raped Amanda. But to be fair to the writers, so far they have avoided the obvious way for things to play out, so let's hope they have another angle.

 

I just hope the writers have the next two and a half seasons mapped out, because Siffy never lets a show go past season four and a few unless it's reality based.

Edited July 11, 2014 by QuiGonJ

[tricksterson]

I'm calling it now, Datak is not making it past the end of this season.  Stahma clearly, in her own twisted way, still has feelings for him or she would have had him killed in prison (although that incident with the big, hulking Casti at the food distribution makes me wonder if maybe she did) or in last night's beatdown but attacking Alak is her berserk button and Datak is too stupid to try and get back in his family's good graces in anything but the most fumbling way guaranteed to make things worse.  He will do something that will give her no choice.

 

As for Pottinger I think he was mostly telling the truth but added the implied rape for extra flavor.  And yeah, I was wondering if he was the guy who raped Amanda too.

Edited July 11, 2014 by tricksterson

[Loandbehold]

As others have said, Jaime Murray's portrayal of Stahma has been fantastic. Stahma was pissed that Datak would not let her be partners, but I think she would have let him continue to be in charge while she schemed behind the scenes, until he hurt Alak. That she could not let pass. 

 

I also have serious doubts about the full extent of the Mayor's story to Amanda. I thought the rape was a bit too spot on after what Amanda said. I didn't think he was the one who raped her, but I can now see that is certainly a possibility. Did we know that Amanda had a job in politics with the E-Rep before she came to Defiance and had her talents discovered by Mayor Nikki? 

 

Kudos to Graham Greene in that last scene with his godson. The pain in his whole body because he knew what he needed to be done. 

 

I'm glad Berlin survived. I thought on several occasions that she was done for.

 

This season has been a huge improvement over last season and I did enjoy the show last season, but it was more of a "hey, a science fiction show with Jaime Murray and others" that a "wow, I was not expecting that."

[Milaxx]

Watching Datak getting his ass kicked was eminently satisfying, I hope it happens every week.

It's more delicious when they save it for special occasions.

 

My take on it is that everyone still believes (or is pretending to believe) that Alak is calling the shots, which is why Stahma made Alak look at the beatdown.  This way, they get their 20% extra profits and things running smoothly and they get to pretend there's a male in charge, even if there isn't.  Alak inadvertently played into that by volunteering himself to be killed, and Datak inadvertently played into that by attacking the current Vizu(?) (Alak).  Stahma saw how to manipulate everyone and took her shot.

 

I'm not sure if I would even watch this show if it wasn't for Stahma (although it still annoys me that she killed of what's her name's sister).  Ah, who am I kidding?  What else am I going to watch?  Under the Dome?  Lol.

My money is on everyone knowing the real deal. That's why Datak should have made her patner.Everyone would have contentedly pretended like he was running things, just like the pretended Alak was in charge. 20% more money for everyone and everyone could save face. Datak could save face and walk around like the peacock he thinks he is.

[BungalowSummer]

Stahma has made a serious mistake in not having Datak killed. Of course, in terms of the loss to the show of killing off Datak, it's clear to me he must survive, but Stahma does not have the absolute upper hand. Datak knows that she killed Kenya, and he can make sure that comes back to haunt her at any point. A word to Nolan or Amanda, and Stahma is sunk.

Likewise, Pottinger made two bad moves. He was actually building some serious goodwill with Amanda, and then he had to blow it by taking Rafe's house. That was also his second bad move. Now Rafe has nothing to lose. The E-Rep took his mines and his home. One son is dead and the other is gone. His daughter is in the Tarr sphere of influence now. Rafe will also be looking to atone for killing his godson, perhaps by taking up his cause.

Both Datak and Pottinger committed unforced errors, and both of them did so because of wounded pride.

Now Datak and Rafe are poised to join forces against the E-Rep, if we can go by the previews. I'm also dying to see how Rafe was persuaded to take a plunge in the Tarr Family Bath. Does he move in with Stahma? And where's Bertie?

Edited July 11, 2014 by BungalowSummer

[mjc570]

I thought that was a great episode.  Well, I would, since I am a huge Jaime Murray fan (not gramatically correct, I am not huge).  For me, the best line (as so often) was Doc Yewell's reference to the "Irathient godling."

 

I guess I am in a very small group, probably because I am pretty gullible and not a good judge of character, but I actually like the Mayor (aside from manipulating Amanda's drug habit).  He's smart, and takes actions in the best interest of Defiance's inhabitants.  He could be a mustache twirling villian, but isn't.  I  totally believed his story.

 

I have to laugh every time I see Amanda in her work clothes - is that veil supposed to be something like a taxi light, showing that she's available for service?

[BungalowSummer]

I have to laugh every time I see Amanda in her work clothes - is that veil supposed to be something like a taxi light, showing that she's available for service?

I don't think it's been established that Amanda is turning tricks herself, and I don't think she is. I think she's running the NeedWant as Madam and Owner/Manager only.

The veil, though, is a very interesting costuming choice. It's actually a fascinator made from French or Russian birdcage netting. In white, it is popular for bridal veils. The contrast for Amanda's black madam outfit in moral and social terms is stark.

Edited July 11, 2014 by BungalowSummer

[Shanna Marie]

I guess I am in a very small group, probably because I am pretty gullible and not a good judge of character, but I actually like the Mayor (aside from manipulating Amanda's drug habit).  He's smart, and takes actions in the best interest of Defiance's inhabitants.  He could be a mustache twirling villian, but isn't.

I like him, too, but I don't know how much of that is residual James Murray love, as I've got a soft spot for him going back to some Masterpiece Theatre costume drama where he tore my heart out, and then I loved him in Primeval, and then he charmed my socks off as the comic relief in the short-lived CHAOS. But I do also like someone who manages to get the upper hand with both Datak and Stahma and who sees right through them. He's a fun antagonist for now, but I'm kind of hoping he's one who ends up getting redeemed or turning himself around at least a little instead of being an outright villain. The peeping on Amanda is seriously creepy, as is his deliberately plying her with drugs, but most of the other stuff he's done has only been "bad" because it's against our established characters, and from the government's perspective, they're the bad guys. He's smart enough that I'd rather see him ending up being an ally against something worse. Though, to be honest, I'm not entirely sure I'd feel that way if he were played by a different actor who didn't bring positive baggage to the role for me.

[GaT]

I don't think it's been established that Amanda is turning tricks herself, and I don't think she is. I think she's running the NeedWant as Madam and Owner/Manager only.

The veil, though, is a very interesting costuming choice. It's actually a fascinator made from French or Russian birdcage netting. In white, it is popular for bridal veils. The contrast for Amanda's black madam outfit in moral and social terms is stark.

I think the veil is part of her Madam/Owner attire. No one else wears a veil, it marks her as different.

[shapeshifter]

Be interesting to see where Rafe ends up.

I'm wondering about this too.

Most fun: Doc Ewell's

Most traditional and drama provoking: At his daughter's with the Tarrs

Other possibilities include with Nolan and Irisia or with some heretofore unnamed friends/relatives who work in the mines.

Am I correct in assuming that Rafe shot his godson because it was better than being tortured to death?

Or was it because he was a danger to everyone around him?

For me, the best line (as so often) was Doc Yewell's reference to the "Irathient godling."

If I were the age and shape to wear t-shirts with words on them, I would so get this on mine.

I took Pottinger's self-confessed backstory at face value, but with so many on the board so sure he was lying about his being abused, I guess that's probably true--which makes him really evil to me.

[Chaos Theory]

There's a fairly simple way for Pottinger to know that Amanda was raped - if he was the one who raped her and is now obsessively stalking his former victim.  I really hope that isn't it and I don't think it is since it's a little too pat and obvious, but oyu never know.

 

 

I was thinking that too.    I do think think that at best Pottinger is an opportunist who will use the rape and Amanda's addiction to get what he want....Amanda.

 

Moral of the story.  Never underestimate Stahma Tarr.  She will cut a bitch...or more more likely get someone else to cut a  bit for her.   For the first time I am actually enjoying the Alak/Christie relationship.  I think it is going to a place it couldn't season 1.  Old ways vs New ways that are pulling at Alak.  The line that Christie couldn't understand why he couldn't go after his father because she wasn't Castithan was interesting especially when his mother walked in ....just then.

 

I am not really a Amanda/Nolan shipper but I thought there early scene in the bedroom was cute especially when Nolan said, "So I am not getting sex because you have to go to work in a whorehouse."  I thought that whole scene was perfect.  

 

Plus actually long scene with drug use.  I loved it.  Question, do you think there are NA meetings in this universe.    Well if there isn't that is the new think Amanda can set up.  I mean she was mayor,  now works in a whore house, next logical step......  "Hello my name is Amanda Rosewater and I am an Adreno addict."  "Hello Amanda."  

Edited July 12, 2014 by Chaos Theory

[Cardie]

I believe that Pottinger was locked up in a church with no bathrooms and being peed on brought back the stench of urine and, thus, that whole experience. Letting Amanda assume he was a fellow sexual assault survivor, just like he's a fellow Adreno user, is probably just part of the stalker seduction.

 

I think Rafe shot the godson because he knew the kid would not quit and would eventually get them all killed.

[90PercentGravity]

I believe that Pottinger was locked up in a church with no bathrooms and being peed on brought back the stench of urine and, thus, that whole experience. Letting Amanda assume he was a fellow sexual assault survivor, just like he's a fellow Adreno user, is probably just part of the stalker seduction.

 

I think Rafe shot the godson because he knew the kid would not quit and would eventually get them all killed.

But since she didn't tell anyone, the only way he would know is if he is her rapist.

[shapeshifter]

But since she didn't tell anyone, the only way he would know is if he is her rapist.

Or he could have been a witness.

[SimoneS]

I like how low key Nolan and Amanda's relationship is being played out. It feels natural and is not big deal to anyone, but Pottinger. 

 

Pottinger is a creepy obsessive stalker, but I would be surprised if he is Amanda's rapist. I would expect that on an episode of Law & Order SVU, not Defiance. 

 

Or was it because he was a danger to everyone around him?

 

I am pretty sure that this is exactly why Rafe killed his godson. He had terrible judgement, kept getting people killed or putting them in danger, and would not stop.

 

Izeinwinter, if Nolan is dead and has been scanned, shouldn't his injury heal itself? Also, are people who have killed and scanned going to live forever at the age that they are scanned or will they age naturally? Seems if they are scanned, they should live forever and not have normal needs like eating.

[johntfs]

 

Lets see, what else.. The E-rep is bringing in heavy digging gear and tech, but are not discussing expanding mining with Rafe. I'm still thinking it's about the reactor. It they want to fix it, that's going to need considerable earthworks. Cooling water diverted to it, access roads, high-voltage lines..

Maglev runs on electricity, not gulenite, after all..

 

Except that Defiance is clearly not hurting for power.  Everyone seems to have at least basic electricity and they run that big-ass force-field fence all the time as well.  Figure the town uses some Votan tech that's cheaper/cleaner/better than trying to dig out an old world fission plant.  The Mayor seems to be aware of the buried Votan ship.  He's most likely brought in that heavy equipment to dig it out.

[BungalowSummer]

There is one thing that tends to verify Pottinger's story about being trapped and abused in the chapel. He was so very specific about how all the stained glass suddenly shattered, that the floor was covered in glass and piss, and that when he was forced to kneel, his hands got all cut up.

When Josef made him strip and kneel on the road, Pottinger had his hands up and they were clearly scarred across the palms.

Pottinger is sensitive about his hands. Normally, he wears leather fingerless palm protectors, so apparently they're not merely fetish stylings. When we first met Pottinger, he was talking about the small indulgence of using hand cream. Here is a man who's trying to bury nasty memories with refinement, erase the smell of piss with perfume.

I doubt it was all a yarn to gain Amanda's sympathy. Pottinger seemed to be genuinely in the grip of humiliating and enraging memories.

[QuiGonJ]

I watched it again... just a few points.

 

Rafe had been warned by Pottinger that he had been allowed to keep the house if he kept the miners in line, and in return got peed on, stolen from and Berlin was nearly killed. At least Rafe isn't in Camp Reverie, but it makes sense that Pottinger kept his word.

 

And about being peed on, man this show is SyFy or HBO? People being peed on, fingers sliced off, necks sliced, nudity at the limits of broadcast standards and maybe a little past... wow. Not judging, just noticing.

[Cardie]

I thought Pottinger told his story only after Amanda told of her rape. So that's how he would know. Or am I misremembering?

I agree with johntfs that the heavy machinery is for excavating the Votan scout ship.

[BungalowSummer]

Pottinger told his story first, at Amanda's bar, to explain why he had been "out of sorts." Later, when she was at his place to get high, she told her story to let him know that he "wasn't alone." It seemed genuine when he said that it was the nicest thing anyone had ever done for him. If, after that, he turns out to be the rapist, or he uses the information he has to abuse Amanda further, then he really would be an irredeemable sociopath.

[shapeshifter]

Pottinger told his story first, at Amanda's bar, to explain why he had been "out of sorts." Later, when she was at his place to get high, she told her story to let him know that he "wasn't alone." It seemed genuine when he said that it was the nicest thing anyone had ever done for him. If, after that, he turns out to be the rapist, or he uses the information he has to abuse Amanda further, then he really would be an irredeemable sociopath.

Yes. That's why I didn't consider he was her rapist until I read it here.

I am wondering if he was mutilated to the point where he cannot have sexual realtions in the usual way. That could explain his voyeurism rather than making a move on Amanda before NoMan NoLand came back to town with his Irathient godling.

[johntfs]

She wasn't in this episode very much, but I still loved Doc "Raw Sex Appeal" Yewll.

[SimoneS]

I think that we were told about Berlin and Pottinger's traumatic pasts and about the families of the soldiers killed by Rafe's godson so that we get that the E-Rep is not just the Big Bad, but that it is also a safe haven for some people. None of which means that the E-Rep should be allowed to get its hands on the weapon or reactor or whatever it is trying to build with Yewll's help. Once Nolan, Rafe, and Amanda find out what the E-Rep is up to, they will have to scheme to get control of "it" from the E-Rep and to push them out of Defiance. I can see Amanda's drug addiction leading her to betray their plans to Pottinger or maybe Datak betrays them to get into the E-Rep's good graces. This season is very promising and much stronger than last season. Too bad the ratings do not reflect this improvement.

Edited July 12, 2014 by SimoneS

[sjohnson]

I don't really see how the scene at the robbery could be interpreted in any other way than Pottinger was genuinely devastated. I think Pottinger was telling the truth (or at least the writers have written that way, confident that any retcon won't be noticed?) Yes, I believed Pottinger.

 

And I'm afraid that I don't really think that robbers normally pee on their victims. And if they did, they could mess up all their clothes if they didn't make them strip first. There is a sexual aspect to the incident that might be overlooked. 

 

As for Pottinger being the original rapist? I'm a big fan of Julie Benz but I think the idea that Pottinger came to Defiance to continue stalking his victim is mad. 

Amanda tells Pottinger about the rape, then the scenario gets re-enacted to torment her? She'll know who to blame. 

 

I have to say I think that Rafe only killed his godson so that he couldn't inform on him. And Nolan approved (though maybe only after?) because the young man could have informed on him. The guy had already lost his only real chance of escaping, and the likelihood is that ERep would break him at some point. The rule of thumb is that everyone breaks under torture. And kidnapping an officer would get the full service jail time I think. 

 

Stahma couldn't kill Datak because Alak still wasn't up for that. He had problems with a simple beating. Also, she still needs Alak as support. Alak has some small credibility after killing Skeevor, after all. So with Alak, Stahma can now ditch Datak. I thought it was remarkable that she still didn't want to!

[Emily Thrace]

Likewise, Pottinger made two bad moves. He was actually building some serious goodwill with Amanda, and then he had to blow it by taking Rafe's house. That was also his second bad move. Now Rafe has nothing to lose. The E-Rep took his mines and his home. One son is dead and the other is gone. His daughter is in the Tarr sphere of influence now. Rafe will also be looking to atone for killing his godson, perhaps by taking up his cause.

Yeah Pottinger broke a couple rules on the evil overload list there himself. Interestingly it actually includes the same rule Datak broke. I like that Pottinger isn't total caricature but is still definitely not a nice guy. I like the moment when his Bio-man was actually concerned for him. Bio men are actually one of those things about this universe that really fascinate me. So many questions about what they are and what they can do.

 

This show is definitely firing on all cylinders last year it couldn't seem to decide whether it was DS9, Stargate or Farscape  and now it is decidedly Defiance with its own unique blend of all of those things and (I know I say this every week) it is awesome.

 

A couple of  things I find really interesting about Stahma is her comments about "the nuns at the academy" which seems to indicate she has her own resentment of religion and abusive past. I also find her devotion to Alak somewhat surprising, given how he has seemed to disappoint her prior to this that she felt his injury so deeply. I always wondered if her devotion to her son was rooted in the same self interest that her devotion to Datak was but now it seems she truly does love him.

 

Loved the scene with Irisa walking in on Nolan and Amanda it was hilairious and very them.

[Mabinogia]

Stahma couldn't kill Datak because Alak still wasn't up for that. He had problems with a simple beating. Also, she still needs Alak as support. Alak has some small credibility after killing Skeevor, after all. So with Alak, Stahma can now ditch Datak. I thought it was remarkable that she still didn't want to!

This is what sets Stahma above most villains, especially, sadly, female villains. One would expect her to lash out in anger, do something impetuous and stupid (kind of like Datak is doing all the time) but instead she is ruthless and cold and calculated and does exactly as much as she can without it biting her in the ass. Of course, leaving Datak alive might bite her in the ass eventually, but not as quickly, I think, as it would if she'd killed him. As was said, Pottinger freed him for a reason. She doesn't need the mayor as an enemy. It would have been too much for Alak, so she would probably loose his support as well, and she might be biding time to see if there is a way she can use Datak down the line.

If I had to choose between Stahma and Datak, if the show wanted to kill one off, I'd want Stahma to stay. She fascinates the hell out of me. Datak is a dime a dozen, hot headed poor boy turned gang lord. Nothing terribly original about him except his species.

[Scarlett45]

Daytak crossed a line with Alak- that was the one thing Stahlma will never for give him for. Don't mess with the Momma Lion named Stahlma. Disfiguring her ONLY child?!! That man should've known that he would have to pay for that. Daytak'a problem is that he isn't as smart as he thinks he is, and always under estimates his enemies. He has lived with his wife for over 20yrs- does he not know her at all?

[shapeshifter]

If I had to choose between Stahma and Datak, if the show wanted to kill one off, I'd want Stahma to stay. She fascinates the hell out of me. Datak is a dime a dozen, hot headed poor boy turned gang lord. Nothing terribly original about him except his species.

I agree that the character of Stahma is more story-valuable and unique than Datak, but the loss of either actor would hurt the show. Edited July 12, 2014 by shapeshifter

[johntfs]

Daytak crossed a line with Alak- that was the one thing Stahlma will never for give him for. Don't mess with the Momma Lion named Stahlma. Disfiguring her ONLY child?!! That man should've known that he would have to pay for that. Daytak'a problem is that he isn't as smart as he thinks he is, and always under estimates his enemies. He has lived with his wife for over 20yrs- does he not know her at all?

 

Datak knew his old wife. the Stahma trained by the academy nuns to be a subservient, traditional Castithen female.

 

There's a concept in the Christian religion called "being born again."  The concept is that when you convert to that religion, you "die" to your old values and ways of thinking and are "born again" as a new person in the life of Christ. 

 

That's similar to what's happened to Stahma.  Ten months or so without Datak there to lead/domination and Alak unable/unwilling to take his place caused the old Stahma to die.  In her place is a new Stahma who is strong, cunning and overtly ruthless to the point of winning over her husband's underlings to her support.

[shapeshifter]

Datak knew his old wife. the Stahma trained by the academy nuns to be a subservient, traditional Castithen female.

 

There's a concept in the Christian religion called "being born again."  The concept is that when you convert to that religion, you "die" to your old values and ways of thinking and are "born again" as a new person in the life of Christ. 

 

That's similar to what's happened to Stahma.  Ten months or so without Datak there to lead/domination and Alak unable/unwilling to take his place caused the old Stahma to die.  In her place is a new Stahma who is strong, cunning and overtly ruthless to the point of winning over her husband's underlings to her support.

And the show made this transition believable. Kudos, Show. It will likely never see Emmy noms like GoT, but there's some worthy stuff going on here nonetheless.

[RealityGal]

Datak knew his old wife. the Stahma trained by the academy nuns to be a subservient, traditional Castithen female.

 

There's a concept in the Christian religion called "being born again."  The concept is that when you convert to that religion, you "die" to your old values and ways of thinking and are "born again" as a new person in the life of Christ. 

 

That's similar to what's happened to Stahma.  Ten months or so without Datak there to lead/domination and Alak unable/unwilling to take his place caused the old Stahma to die.  In her place is a new Stahma who is strong, cunning and overtly ruthless to the point of winning over her husband's underlings to her support.

 

I think that as long as the show has been on, she has always been cunning and strong, but on behalf of datak because she was in his corner.  She almost single handedly got Datak on the city council or whatever IIRC.  Then she seemed responsible for him "taking over" for the mayor when Amanda was injured.  But I think that an opportunity opened itself up for her, and she took it.  An opportunity that wouldn't have ever been open to her any other way except for Datak going to jail or dying.  As far as I can tell, the Castians are very traditional people, so perhaps its frowned on for a woman to work outside of the home unless she absolutely must, which would in Stahma's case only occur if Datak went to jail or died.  

 

I remember one scene, where Datak is inside meeting with the council, and Stahma is sitting on a bench outside doing some sort of knitting and Nolan looks at her and says something to the effect of "you're the one thats the real danger."

[CoderLady]

Ah, Nolan's "I've had my eye on the wrong snake" speech. I loved that she just smiled sweetly and continued to do her needlework.

[Scarlett45]

Reality Gal I think you're right on the money.

I don't think subservient was the "old Stahlma"- I think she fulfilled her role well as Daytak was working to benefit THEIR family, however the second he injured Alak all bets were off regarding pretending to be the subservient wife. Do you remember her speech to Daytak last season when Alak wanted to marry Christie and she proclaimed that Daytak should be PROUD to have raised a son so strong to talk back to him blah blah blah- that speech was for the benefit of her son. Had Daytak not bought it she would've had him removed right there- Stahlma isn't going to let anything happen to her only child. The first episode showed that when she pointed out that Alak was in love with Christie and THEN sold the idea of taking over the mines to Daytak.

Edited July 13, 2014 by Scarlett45

[RealityGal]

Ah, Nolan's "I've had my eye on the wrong snake" speech. I loved that she just smiled sweetly and continued to do her needlework.

Yes!  Thats what he said, and it was a great scene because of the smile and because she was essentially doing some sort of needlework which looked like a spider weaving a web to catch prey in.

 

Reality Gal I think you're right on the money.

I don't think subservient was the "old Stahlma"- I think she fulfilled her role well as Daytak was working to benefit THEIR family, however the second he injured Alak all bets were off regarding pretending to be the subservient wife. Do you remember her speech to Daytak last season when Alak wanted to marry Christie and she proclaimed that Daytak should be PROUD to have raised a son so strong to talk back to him blah blah blah- that speech was for the benefit of her son. Had Daytak not bought it she would've had him removed right there- Stahlma isn't going to let anything happen to her only child. The first episode showed that when she pointed out that Alak was in love with Christie and THEN sold the idea of taking over the mines to Daytak.

 

You know, at the time, I thought it was just Stahma trying to get power for Daytak, and putting him above her child, but now that you say it, and in light of Stahma's recent badass moves, I can now see it that way.  Stahma hides so much behind that mysterious smile and soft spoken nature, but the first real flash of anger that I think I've seen from her was when she found out Daytak messed up Alak's hand.  I think if it weren't for the fact that she knows Alak would feel responsible if she killed Daytak for it, she might have had him killed in that tent.

[shapeshifter]

the first real flash of anger that I think I've seen from her was when she found out Daytak messed up Alak's hand. I think if it weren't for the fact that she knows Alak would feel responsible if she killed Daytak for it, she might have had him killed in that tent.

We also saw a smaller flash of anger in the family tub after Daytak half drowned her at the end of the previous episode and which they included at the beginning of this one in the previouslies. I'm still going along with @johntfs 's theory that Stahma has had a fundamental change, but y'all have swayed me enough with the recollection of her being a snake all along that I'm thinking the moment of real change was in the bathtub, when she realized she could no longer hide her true nature.

Editing to add: And the true nature of the Tarr snake is the fangs.

It just occurred to me that Daytak holding her head under water and Stahma coming up a changed person heavily borrows from the ritual of baptism by immersion practiced in many Christian churches.

Edited July 13, 2014 by shapeshifter

[GaT]

Ah, Nolan's "I've had my eye on the wrong snake" speech. I loved that she just smiled sweetly and continued to do her needlework.

Actually, she said "You're very sweet.". I loved that.