S03.E07: SFAD

[kicotan]

9 hours ago, rmontro said:

Thanks for the info, but is showing breasts really considered flashing?  Seems a bit extreme.  Especially considering aren't there laws allowing women to breast feed in public?  Well, there used to be, somewhere.  Not sure about California.

Yes, exposing genitals, including female nipples/breasts is considered “flashing”...technically, “indecent exposure”.

A woman breastfeeding her child is intending on providing nutrition to her child.  That is not considered to be or anywhere near the same as a woman exposing her breasts to others with the only intent being to annoy, offend or arouse her audience.

Again, if Reznick’s intended audience wasn’t a 12 year old child, her actions would be considered a misdemeanor, at worst.

[kicotan]

9 hours ago, Miss Bones said:

...I know that Reznick is not a sexual predator, and she was trying to perform an act of kindness,  but she flashed her tits to a child, IN HER PLACE OF EMPLOYMENT.  Did you see the look on his face?  He was rolling into surgery with a belly full of slushies and a boner...

Reznick may well be a sexual predator~The most successful ones are incredibly good at blending in, appearing normal, holding down respectable jobs, families unaware...remember BTK?

An act of kindness doesn’t sexualize a 12 year old child.  Sexual abusers of children often rationalize their behavior as having benevolent intentions...especially if they aren’t violent.  NAMBLA members insist that they love children and would never, ever do anything to hurt them.

The ONLY intention of the 12 year old child to see “boobies” before he became permanently blind was motivated by adolescent sexuality.   As satisfying as that belly full of slushees was that big smile on his face from receiving sexual gratification from a grown woman, entrusted with his medical care, in a position of authority...submitting to his desire for sexual gratification by giving him what he wants.

gag.

Edited November 14, 2019 by kicotan

[catrice2]

On 11/12/2019 at 11:51 AM, Mikita said:

I hope it ends too. I find them boring. But, I have never, ever watched a "medical drama" that does not involve personal relationships. Are there any out there?

Probably why I just figured out I don't like Medical dramas that much. . Could not get into St. Elsewhere, ER or Grey's Anatomy. I lasted one maybe two seasons withe Grey's, random episodes of ER, have no interest in Chicago Hope, House or several others.  I came to his late last year, started liking it, but with all the Jared and Claire constantly having no joy, the ill advised Melendez Lim connection and anything to do with Glassman or Leah...I find I'd rather just read the comments. 

[kicotan]

2 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

In today's climate, any reference to something inappropriate with a minor is highly criticized.  I was even surprised that standards of the network let it slip through, because even the depiction of a minor with something sexual could be considered inappropriate. I get where they were going and how it was intended, but, today.....things like that are not well tolerated, so, I am surprised. 

I think the writers are trying to be clever about social issues, given that their main character flys in the face of societal mores by presenting as he is, struggling to adapt and others having to adapt to him rather than him being the only one expected to adapt to the  neuronormative way of doing things.

As evidenced by some of the replies on this thread, the gender of the child and the abuser is perceived differently for some folks, but why should it be?

What Reznick did is no better or worse than if the child was female and a male resident flashed her his penis~according to the laws we have on the books.  But morality is a moving target for some folks, based on gender.  For me, it is unacceptable, regardless of gender or “private part” being exposed.  The intent is what bothers me~and Reznick shouldn’t be given a pass just because she’s female.  Sexually arousing a 12 year old was just fine with her-and that is the disturbing part, for me.

[suebee12]

On 11/12/2019 at 6:16 PM, Robert Lynch said:

Charlie looked like a young 90s Devon Sawa.

All I could see was a young Leonardo Decaprio circa Gilbert Grape.

[morakot]

My assumption is that Morgan was wearing a bra and what she flashed was pretty close to being in a bikini top.

[Brown12051]

https://www.goodhousekeeping.com/life/entertainment/a29774725/the-good-doctor-fiona-gubelmann-season-3-episode-7/

Apparently at least one fan objected to Morgan getting so empathetic lately.  Admittedly, it does change things.

[kicotan]

5 hours ago, morakot said:

My assumption is that Morgan was wearing a bra and what she flashed was pretty close to being in a bikini top.

Just curious, but what made you make that assumption?

If that’s all he wanted, why try to bribe a bouncer to get him into a strip club and just go to the beach?

[SassyCat]

I didn't used to till now, but I really dislike Debby now. How dare she act like she is his boss and tell him how to be with the squirrel woman, and was just over the top rude to Glassman and his colleague during their conversation. Kicking her out. If I were him, I would have lost all love in that moment. Then her using guilt tactics on him as she left for the day. It was stupid of him to buy her shoes and keep her around.

I don't know what the huge pearl clutching awfulness is, about Resnick showing that poor, about to be blind, boy, her breasts. How very sad for him, kind of her, and very usefully distracting for him at the moment he was being wheeled out to never have the opportunity to see a woman's beautiful bosom for the rest of his life. Big deal. Anyone who's ever gotten their hands on a National Geographic magazine has gotten an eyefull of every kind of breast, in every size, shape and length. California having an indecent exposure law has become an open air public portalet pit with plenty of bared butts and frontal lower extremities flashing and evacuating in full sight and not even expected to clean up after themselves! So let's go for the dog owners who didn't have a plastic bag handy while dog walking, and the compassionate doctor who granted a soon to be totally blind teen a memory of his lifetime that will always bring a smile to his face.

It broke my heart and I cried when he studied his parents faces for the last time, burning them into his memory.

[morakot]

2 hours ago, kicotan said:

Just curious, but what made you make that assumption?

If that’s all he wanted, why try to bribe a bouncer to get him into a strip club and just go to the beach?

She was in her scrubs and ready to go into surgery. She would most likely have on a bra under that thin fabric.

[juno]

I have started to notice something this second season that is a bit concerning (small shark fin in the water).

I have notice the ultimatums/threats starting to occur with a regularity that they are becoming concerning.

Melendez threatens if his team goes over his head again they are gone. Debbie quits. Sean worries that if the first surgery doesn't go well he is out. Surgeries are all life and death. Lim and Melendez have to break up because she can't be Melendez's boss. Browne's mom dies.

[statsgirl]

For the boy, the day's adventures was to be able to do as many things as he could before he lost his sight and they were out of his reach forever. I didn't have a problem with Morgan flashing him (I too thought she was probably wearing a bra) because he asked to see a real woman so he was the one in charge. Our taboo on nudity is a leftover from the Puritans and doesn't apply in other cultures which maybe we should take a hint from.

On 11/12/2019 at 3:07 AM, possibilities said:

I can't stand Debbie. You don't swoop in and make major changes on your first day, without even discussing it first. Who the hell does she think she is? I really can't stand her. I didn't think he was harsh, I thought he was a total doormat.

Af first I thought that the Glassman/Debbie relationship was to parallel Shaun's because Glassman is also socially awkward but was more successful. But this is even more in trouble.

Debbie is not too bright. Or maybe she's lacking cognitive complexity.  There is little reason for a doctor to keep to a strict timetable and many for it to be flexible. My parents were family doctors in a joint practice. My father pretty much kept to his schedule but my mother took as long as her patients needed. Often the day's last patients would be waiting 2 hours after their scheduled appointment for her but they did because they knew she would give them the time they needed. (If they didn't want to wait, they could get in to see my father.)

So Debbie going all drill sergeant is stupid and shows she really can't read the situation. At least we know that the sex is good.

On 11/12/2019 at 6:41 PM, mojito said:

Does anyone else feel that too frequently other people are pushing Shaun to be or do something he isn't all that interested in being or doing? And besides the fact that I think Carly is creepy, no way I'd want hospital staff to know my private business.

This is something that has bothered me since s1, the unspoken expectation that Shaun will eventually have a romantic relationship like everyone else does. It would be nice but Shaun is not like everyone else.

For someone who is familiar with the autism spectrum, Carly really is pushing Shaun to be "normal". I don't think it will end well, she shouldn't need Claire, Lea and Morgan to act as intermediaries to communicate with Shaun.

[Fable]

1 hour ago, statsgirl said:

For someone who is familiar with the autism spectrum, Carly really is pushing Shaun to be "normal". I don't think it will end well, she shouldn't need Claire, Lea and Morgan to act as intermediaries to communicate with Shaun.

I’m not a fan of the Shaun/Carly relationship at this point, and I do feel that Carly is treating him like a puppy she needs to train.  However, I don’t think she particularly wants Claire, Morgan and Leah involving themselves in their relationship.  That’s on Shaun.  He is the one who keeps seeking their advice, much to Carly’s disappointment. 

[possibilities]

Carly has expressed to Claire that she doesn't want the meddling. But has she expressed that to Shaun? Really, the thing that bothers me is that they spend most of the time showing us Shaun talking to other people about Carly, and then just give us 2 seconds of the two of them together. When they do talk, they seem to be fairly compatible. But we only get snippets of it, punctuated by a lot of commentary and interference from other people.

[bros402]

8 hours ago, SassyCat said:

I didn't used to till now, but I really dislike Debby now. How dare she act like she is his boss and tell him how to be with the squirrel woman, and was just over the top rude to Glassman and his colleague during their conversation. Kicking her out. If I were him, I would have lost all love in that moment. Then her using guilt tactics on him as she left for the day. It was stupid of him to buy her shoes and keep her around.

I don't know what the huge pearl clutching awfulness is, about Resnick showing that poor, about to be blind, boy, her breasts. How very sad for him, kind of her, and very usefully distracting for him at the moment he was being wheeled out to never have the opportunity to see a woman's beautiful bosom for the rest of his life. Big deal. Anyone who's ever gotten their hands on a National Geographic magazine has gotten an eyefull of every kind of breast, in every size, shape and length. California having an indecent exposure law has become an open air public portalet pit with plenty of bared butts and frontal lower extremities flashing and evacuating in full sight and not even expected to clean up after themselves! So let's go for the dog owners who didn't have a plastic bag handy while dog walking, and the compassionate doctor who granted a soon to be totally blind teen a memory of his lifetime that will always bring a smile to his face.

2 hours ago, statsgirl said:

For the boy, the day's adventures was to be able to do as many things as he could before he lost his sight and they were out of his reach forever. I didn't have a problem with Morgan flashing him (I too thought she was probably wearing a bra) because he asked to see a real woman so he was the one in charge. Our taboo on nudity is a leftover from the Puritans and doesn't apply in other cultures which maybe we should take a hint from.

It's less of a "oh she showed him her breasts" and a "she is his doctor and showed him her breasts"

She is in a position of power and he is a minor. I mean if he had been like "hey I wanna see some breasts" and she handed him a tablet to find some, sure, whatever.

But the doctor flashed her patient.

[kicotan]

17 hours ago, SassyCat said:

I don't know what the huge pearl clutching awfulness is, about Resnick showing that poor, about to be blind, boy, her breasts.

Because in the real world, being offended at the sexual abuse of a child is hardly pearl-clutching...

He’s 12.  A child.

She’s his doctor, an adult in a position of authority.

 It is a felony, even if she wasn’t his doctor.

She knew it was wrong, that’s why she sent the other away with some ruse and pulled the curtain.

Sexually stimulating a child isn’t compassionate or showing kindness, no matter what the abuser or the supporters of such abuse contend.

I’m almost positive that the Make-A-Wish foundation does NOT sponsor trips to a strip club or hire prostitutes to fulfill the sexually motivated fantasies of terminally ill heterosexual identifying boys or girls that identify as lesbian that are going through puberty.

Edited November 15, 2019 by kicotan
inclusiveness

[statsgirl]

6 hours ago, possibilities said:

Carly has expressed to Claire that she doesn't want the meddling. But has she expressed that to Shaun? Really, the thing that bothers me is that they spend most of the time showing us Shaun talking to other people about Carly, and then just give us 2 seconds of the two of them together. When they do talk, they seem to be fairly compatible. But we only get snippets of it, punctuated by a lot of commentary and interference from other people.

Granted, it's probably written that way for the drama but ...

It seems to me that Shaun talks to other people about Carly because they're having problems communicating as Carly doesn't understand him as well as Lea and Claire do. She doesn't realize that you have to be very concrete with him in terms of emotional asks and that things like talking through emojis* or texting him frequently are things he is not going to get. That he needs more structure in terms of interpersonal contacts e.g. when she is away, set up specific times for talking or texting instead of texting randomly and expecting him to reply. It's frustrating because Carly said that her sister is on the spectrum so she understands the disorder but she keeps making these stupid mistakes.

If Shaun is going to be in a romantic relationship, it should be with someone who understands his situation. Like Glassman and Debbie, Shaun and Carly seemed to be a good pairing but are looking increasingly mismatched.

* I have a friend who is far from being on the spectrum but she has trouble deciphering emojis so I'm careful never to use them when texting her. How could Carly just assume that Shaun, who has difficulty with emotions at the best of times, would understand the meaning behind what she's sending him?

[KaveDweller]

8 hours ago, statsgirl said:

How could Carly just assume that Shaun, who has difficulty with emotions at the best of times, would understand the meaning behind what she's sending him?

I feel like the Carly we have been presented with would know that Shaun wouldn't understand emojis. But clearly, someone on the show realized how great a scene where Shaun acted out an emoji would be. So, they had Carly send one.

I think the problem with Shaun/Carly's communication hasn't been that Carly doesn't understand Shaun or how he needs to talk. It is that Shaun doesn't tell her what he is thinking. He tells Leah/Claire/Glassman and then they decide to intervene.  They should be telling Shaun to talk to Carly himself. And to not wait to talk to them, to just talk to her right away.

But Carly does seem to want to "train" Shaun to be the guy she wants.

[Robert Lynch]

On 11/13/2019 at 12:56 PM, Miss Bones said:

I was reading through the whole thread, and was surprised that everyone was okay with the boob flashing, until I got to these comments.  I am not a prude, by any means, but I thought the same things that the above-mentioned posters thought about the situation.  Especially the bolded.  And I see some posters thereafter, trying to say boobs aren't the same as a penis, etc.  They are not "the same"--as in, yes the vagina is the female sexual organ in comparison to the penis--but breasts are still a private part.  Would you not teach your child (daughter, obviously) to tell you or another trusted adult if an adult touched her breasts?  "Now, honey.  It's okay if an adult touches your breasts, just not your vagina..." 

I know that Reznick is not a sexual predator, and she was trying to perform an act of kindness,  but she flashed her tits to a child, IN HER PLACE OF EMPLOYMENT.  Did you see the look on his face?  He was rolling into surgery with a belly full of slushies and a boner!  Some of the humor I enjoy/stand-up I listen to is incredibly offensive, and even *I* found this inappropriate.  To each her own, I suppose.  *shrugs*

I said to my husband:  "Why is this kid's hair and wardrobe Devon Sawa's, circa Little Giants?  What year is it?"  And his reply was, "Well, he is blind..." (this was the beginning of the ep, and he thought the kid was already blind before they explained the whole situation)  I am aware that is kind of mean, and I am also aware that some 90's fashions are back in style.

I think there has been a resurgence of both decades more recently: the late 80s and the 90s together. It seems like kids today who are born in the 2000s are becoming very interested in shows like Saved By The Bell, Fresh Prince of Bel Air, and the original 90201 for fashion trends. Not to mention late 80s movies like License To Drive, The Wizard, The Lost Boys, and so many others from that time period are becoming the in thing. Even 90s movies are becoming popular again. 

I seen Good Boys and there is already a sense of becoming interested in those two decades today. Kids could wear something that was worn two or three decades ago. It is not that it is everywhere. Kids are following dress style from films from two or three decades ago. It's not the 80s making a comeback, but really of combination of late 80s-early 90s trend that is taking over this year.

[bros402]

17 hours ago, kicotan said:

I’m almost positive that the Make-A-Wish foundation does NOT sponsor trips to a strip club or hire prostitutes to fulfill the sexually motivated fantasies of terminally ill heterosexual identifying boys or girls that identify as lesbian that are going through puberty.

They don't - they also don't pay for anything that involves gambling.

[abourgeois]

I know I'm late to this party but DAMN the scene where the kid looked at his parents before surgery was some of the best acting I've seen. I knew exactly what he was doing - memorizing their faces - without one word spoken. I sobbed. 

[kicotan]

Ran across this and couldn’t help but think of how Resnick’s actions in this episode were reacted to.

https://www.motherjones.com/crime-justice/2019/09/utah-lewdness-law-prosecution-woman-topless/

“...Even though Buchanan was topless in the privacy of her own home, she is now facing potentially very serious consequences: three counts of lewdness involving a child, a class A misdemeanor which could land her in jail and place her on the sex offender registry for 10 years. Utah’s ordinance about lewdness involving a child prohibits the exposure of “the female breast below the top of the areola,” either in public or “in a private place under circumstances the person should know will likely cause affront or alarm or with the intent to arouse or gratify the sexual desire of the actor or the child...”

Edited November 20, 2019 by kicotan
Grammar Nazi

[bros402]

11 hours ago, kicotan said:

Ran across this and couldn’t help but think of how Resnick’s actions in this episode were reacted to.

https://www.motherjones.com/crime-justice/2019/09/utah-lewdness-law-prosecution-woman-topless/

“...Even though Buchanan was topless in the privacy of her own home, she is now facing potentially very serious consequences: three counts of lewdness involving a child, a class A misdemeanor which could land her in jail and place her on the sex offender registry for 10 years. Utah’s ordinance about lewdness involving a child prohibits the exposure of “the female breast below the top of the areola,” either in public or “in a private place under circumstances the person should know will likely cause affront or alarm or with the intent to arouse or gratify the sexual desire of the actor or the child...”

Yeah, that law needs to be changed - since you should be able to do whatever in your own home and have an expectation of privacy. Not to say you shouldn't have any curtains and just walk around naked all day, but you shouldn't be able to be charged because a kid looked in your window and saw you naked.

[sleepysuzy]

In the aforementioned case, the woman's stepsons saw her topless. It was not sexual, IIRC. She was just working around the house without a shirt or bra on.

I agree that Reznick was in the wrong. Maybe show the kid a human anatomy picture or something more clinical. 

[Kfir]

Couldn't they just take the kid to an art class? Are they really that naive they thought a strip club would let him in? 

The female doctor by law abused the child by exposing herself to him, doesn't matter how much he may have wanted to see boobs etc. And she was unprofessional. 

Flip the genders and imagine a male or female doctor doing this to a female underage patient.

[ForReal]

I recall an episode of House when a dying girl was lamenting the fact that she might die without ever having been kissed, so Chase kissed her. It was the same dilemma -- kinda cringeworthy and wrong, but also kind of a heartfelt attempt to be kind. Generates discussion, that's for sure.

[Kfir]

6 hours ago, ForReal said:

I recall an episode of House when a dying girl was lamenting the fact that she might die without ever having been kissed, so Chase kissed her. It was the same dilemma -- kinda cringeworthy and wrong, but also kind of a heartfelt attempt to be kind. Generates discussion, that's for sure.

I would guess if either doctor were caught out then it could possibly be up to a judge to decide if it were worthy of a trial or not. 

I can see the kindness/humanitarian grounds but they have to be applied equally. Often we see female sex abusers get away with things male sex abusers don't get away with. And when I say "sex abusers" I mean primarily teachers who have sex with students, it seems more acceptable for a female teacher to do that than a male. 

[Trini]

Loved Shaun doing a pretty accurate emoji imitation; and the minimal amount of Leah this season. It was nice to see Shaun be able to connect to a patient personally, and vice versa. It doesn't happen a lot.

Park continues to get the short end of the stick this season. 😕 Maybe next year is his year?

I remember last season complaining that all the romance/pairings had mostly disappeared from the show, and now this season is all Shaun/Carly, Glassman/Debbie, and Lim/Melendez. Maybe Claire will get someone once she's out of this funk?

I don't like Claire's (understandable) change in personality, but I do like that she has a continuing story; however, I hate that it's shared with Resnick. And that she - of all people - is the one lecturing her about being more like "old Claire". UGH. Can we get Shaun or Melendez in on this, please? Anyone else??

So, being able to cry/tear up on cue is probably the first requirement for guest stars on this show! Good cases of the week, although there were several problems already pointed out about the kid's 'spontaneous fun day'.

I'm on the side that what Resnick did was technically a sexual assualt against a minor, no matter how "well intentioned".

[Emma9]

On November 23, 2019 at 10:34 AM, ForReal said:

I recall an episode of House when a dying girl was lamenting the fact that she might die without ever having been kissed, so Chase kissed her. It was the same dilemma -- kinda cringeworthy and wrong, but also kind of a heartfelt attempt to be kind. Generates discussion, that's for sure.

Yeah, that was what I thought of too. Although a perhaps pertinent difference (although not legally) is that the girl specifically asked Chase to kiss her, while the boy in this episode had only said that he wanted to see naked women in general; later he was confused about what Reznik was doing, and she just told him to hush and flashed him. Obviously he didn't mind, and again, legally 'he wanted it' doesn't make a difference, but I would have cringed less if she'd asked first.

(Although I also couldn't tell from the scene whether she had her bra off. We got a shot of her unbuttoning her shirt and then cut straight to the boy's reaction, and no matter what style of bra she wears there would've been a little lag time for getting it out of the way.)

I felt for Shaun and the texting, especially at the beginning with him being exasperated that a non-question required a response. Sometimes it does, but sometimes it just devolves into an exchange you can't stop because everybody's been conditioned into thinking it's rude to let the other person have the last word.

I'm also behind the times when it comes to emoji interpretation beyond basic expressions - in part because I've got an older phone that won't even render half of them, but I'm not really interested in going there either.

[sinkwriter]

On 11/14/2019 at 5:27 PM, SassyCat said:

It broke my heart and I cried when he studied his parents faces for the last time, burning them into his memory.

I cried too. That kid actor did a remarkable job in that scene. And I kept thinking about the dad, try to smile at your son. You don't want the last image he sees to be one of you crying and sad. I was so glad that the mom smiled through her tears and told him they loved him. It was a beautiful moment and so heartbreaking.

About the Debbie thing... I understood her wanting to keep Glassman to a tighter schedule, but her walking right in on him with a patient, any patient, is beyond offensive. It doesn't matter if Glassman couldn't fix that squirrel woman's issues in 5 minutes - maybe he needed the five minutes to convince her to see a therapist and give her a name or two and let her know he wasn't judging her. Next time it might be Debbie walking in on him when he's not done with examining a patient! Or when he's in the middle of consoling someone who has gotten a terrible diagnosis. Or maybe in the middle of a moment where a patient is admitting her boyfriend hits her and that she needs help. Having Debbie barge in and say, "Time's up! Your next patient has been waiting," is just so wrong. It ruins the confidential, safe environment Glassman is meant to provide as someone's doctor.

[cinsays]

16 hours ago, sinkwriter said:

About the Debbie thing... I understood her wanting to keep Glassman to a tighter schedule, but her walking right in on him with a patient, any patient, is beyond offensive. It doesn't matter if Glassman couldn't fix that squirrel woman's issues in 5 minutes - maybe he needed the five minutes to convince her to see a therapist and give her a name or two and let her know he wasn't judging her. Next time it might be Debbie walking in on him when he's not done with examining a patient! Or when he's in the middle of consoling someone who has gotten a terrible diagnosis. Or maybe in the middle of a moment where a patient is admitting her boyfriend hits her and that she needs help. Having Debbie barge in and say, "Time's up! Your next patient has been waiting," is just so wrong. It ruins the confidential, safe environment Glassman is meant to provide as someone's doctor.

Yes!!!  This should have had Glassman knowing that having her as his assistant just is not a good idea.  She doesn't get boundaries.