S01.E05: Little Fear of Lightning

[Catfi9ht]

I was very much looking forward to Looking Glass's story since his character is a literal reflection of Rorschach. I thought his backstory delivered very well. When he was by himself in the department store trying to spy on 7K, I was experiencing general anxiety for him, which is an unusual reaction for me while watching a tv show.

Overall, I thought this episode was very tense and very well executed with the exception of the Ozy story. I agree with the poster above who said Jeremy Irons is playing Ozy as a different type of narcissist than he was in the comic. I think the movie (with all its flaws) portrayed Ozy's narcissism as it was in the comic.

I can continue to ignore the Ozy story because the rest of the show is so engaging. Hopefully when the characters intersect, it will be interesting. But if that's my only complaint about the show, then I think this show really succeeded in adding to The Watchmen universe.

Warning: Longish incoming personal opinion on the types of narcissists and how it relates to Adrian Veidt. I am not a psychologist/psychiatrist, just a general observer of human behavior.

First to address the elephant in the room is the main quote from Shelley's poem: My name is Ozymandias, king of kings: Look on my works, ye Mighty, and despair!

For me, the line "look on my works" is the single most important line to understanding his motivations. My brain breaks down narcissists into two general categories: tellers and show-ers.

Tellers are much more common of the two. They're the types of people who constantly have to tell people how great they are with the hopes of receiving admiration (which stems from deep-seeded insecurity). 

Show-ers are much less common, are not insecure, and receive their psychological needs from demonstrating to people how great they are and watching others' reactions to "their works".

To me, Veidt is a show-er. He's much more driven by releasing his inventions, his story (previously as Ozymandias), his merchandise, etc., to repeatedly demonstrate that he is humanity's savior. The movie Ozy was more self-assured, reserved, and matter-of-fact when it came to explaining how his inventions would save humanity, which is why I think the movie's version of Ozy was more faithful to the comic. 

This is why I don't believe the tape Keane Jr. stole is in keeping with his character. The tape has Jeremy Irons's Ozymandias gleefully boasting about how he predicted all of these things is a different type of narcissist than Ozy in the comic. What I think would have been more in line with the character is if there are journal entries from Ozy documenting his predictions that were discovered shortly after his disappearance with a Jeremy Irons voice-over. However, that wouldn't have been nearly as interesting for tv.

Anyway, I'm looking forward to next week's episode. It looks like it will add alot to Will's backstory. However, the preview didn't show Looking Glass so it looks like my anxiety for him will last a couple of weeks.

[Tachi Rocinante]

Maybe Laurie can start a new secret identity called the Pretentious Hypocrite.

[Enigma X]

My UO is that Laurie is way too extra for me. I think Jean Smart is playing the heck out of her as written, but I am not in awe of the character like most of you. I love Irons and Veidt was my favorite character from the graphic novel but there is a disconnect (not severe as it is for some of you) with the actor and the character for me.

[Citizen A]

1 hour ago, Catfi9ht said:

Overall, I thought this episode was very tense and very well executed with the exception of the Ozy story. I agree with the poster above who said Jeremy Irons is playing Ozy as a different type of narcissist than he was in the comic. I think the movie (with all its flaws) portrayed Ozy's narcissism as it was in the comic.

This Adrian is now 80 years old.  While he's obviously still in amazing physical shape for a man his age, who's to say that his mental state has not changed/deteriorated.  The fact that he takes such a batshit-crazy environment in stride is telling (viz.: fishing fetus-things from the bottom of a lake). Seems that this more manic behavior is not unwarranted for a genius trapped in a castle on a Jovian moon.

Who thinks the "D" in "Save Me D" is Daniel?

[Catfi9ht]

10 minutes ago, anville said:

This Adrian is now 80 years old.  While he's obviously still in amazing physical shape for a man his age, who's to say that his mental state has not changed/deteriorated.  The fact that he takes such a batshit-crazy environment in stride is telling (viz.: fishing fetus-things from the bottom of a lake). Seems that this more manic behavior is not unwarranted for a genius trapped in a castle on a Jovian moon.

While I can see your point of view with his character in the present, my main issue with this episode was the recording from 1985 to Robert Redford was out of character with the graphic novel.

[mac123x]

17 minutes ago, Catfi9ht said:

While I can see your point of view with his character in the present, my main issue with this episode was the recording from 1985 to Robert Redford was out of character with the graphic novel.

Add that to my list of areas where the show runners thought the audience was stupid.  They could have cut right after Veidt stated that he was responsible for the squid, and leave the rest implied.  I mean, they did do that, in that we didn't have to watch several hours of Veidt explaining the minutiae of his plans to President Redford, but I think it would have been better if they cut immediately after the reveal.  

But no, they think we're too dumb to fill in the blanks on our own. 

[Citizen A]

42 minutes ago, Catfi9ht said:

While I can see your point of view with his character in the present, my main issue with this episode was the recording from 1985 to Robert Redford was out of character with the graphic novel.

I think I did see one rationalization for this that the Veidt we see through most of the comic is before his great plan came to fruition is one who is restraining his true frenetic nature, and once he lets loose with "I did it!" in issue 12, he starts letting his freak flag fly, so to speak.

Still, I do agree with you about the recording scene.

[Joimiaroxeu]

Abby Donovan! Still iffy at accents!

Blanks. You'd think a cop wouldn't have gotten fooled by that.

Squid pro quo. Meh, not so funny right about now.

Why would Wade automatically believe that recording by Adrian Veidt was made in 1985? It could've been made yesterday.

So is the FBI woman a member of the Kavalry? I'm so confused. 😐

[TiffanyNichelle]

5 hours ago, Enigma X said:

My UO is that Laurie is way too extra for me. I think Jean Smart is playing the heck out of her as written, but I am not in awe of the character like most of you.

I kind of agree. I enjoy her for the most part. The show got us to buy into the logic of the cops and detectives wearing masks and it became normal for this town. But then they bring in an outsider, who has run around with masked heroes and who's job is to take down masked vigilantes, and she points out that no, this is really silly and probably wouldn't fly in any other place. So I did like that at first. But now I want them to slow down on her "calling out the bullshit." Like, does every conversation with her has to be all about her being smarter than them?

Every time she called Looking Glass, "Mirror Guy" I cringed. Look, I get it. Now knock it off, it's just annoying now. Not clever or cute or cool. She's swung so far to the other side with her disdain for masks to over compensate for her time with the Minutemen. She didn't want to be her mother so much she's turning into her father? Attitude-wise that is.

[Chicago Redshirt]

2 hours ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

Why would Wade automatically believe that recording by Adrian Veidt was made in 1985? It could've been made yesterday.

So is the FBI woman a member of the Kavalry? I'm so confused. 😐

We don't know necessarily what Wade does believe of the recording. Assuming the Watchmenverse's technology in terms of video recording is about the same as ours, the video featured a younger Ozy (or what was supposed to be a younger Ozy), so that lends authenticity to it being done back in 1985. The theory that 11/2 was some sort of false flag hoax had already been floating around. (We saw a couple people talk about it in passing in like episode 2). So for someone who has made 11/2 as huge a part of his life, it seems to me that it could go either way.

Laurie is not a member of the Kavalry. She got sent to Tulsa on the recommendation of Keene, who is leading the Kavalry and claims that Judd was as well, to investigate Judd's killing. 

[mac123x]

2 hours ago, TiffanyNichelle said:

But now I want them to slow down on her "calling out the bullshit." Like, does every conversation with her has to be all about her being smarter than them?

To be fair to the show, they are portraying her attitude as a flaw, because I couple of times she's stepped in it.  She assumed Petey was fanboying at her ("do you want my autograph?") which he called her on.  And in the mausoleum / tunnel interest, she got all superior and Angela just mocked her.

2 hours ago, TiffanyNichelle said:

Every time she called Looking Glass, "Mirror Guy" I cringed. Look, I get it. Now knock it off, it's just annoying now.

I had the exact same reaction, until she did it again after Wade corrected her.  I thought it was another example of her superiority-complex being a flaw.  She doesn't just dislike the masks - she actively hates them and gets a little unprofessional as a result.

[rmontro]

11 hours ago, Catfi9ht said:

Overall, I thought this episode was very tense and very well executed with the exception of the Ozy story. I agree with the poster above who said Jeremy Irons is playing Ozy as a different type of narcissist than he was in the comic.

I'm not convinced the Laurie Blake character is that consistent with the comics either.

[Chicago Redshirt]

18 hours ago, rmontro said:

I'm not convinced the Laurie Blake character is that consistent with the comics either.

I would say that Laurie has gone through a couple major life changes since just before the end of Watchmen. She found out who her true father was and consciously started mirroring him. She has had to deal with 11/2 and her knowledge of its true nature. She had her relationship with Nite Owl develop and then break apart. And she got caught and turned from vigilante to vigilante-catcher. The combo of those, plus 30 years, would account for her changing personality.

Beyond that, I would say comic Laurie was not a particularly developed personality. She was more defined in relationship to being Sally's daughter and Doc's girlfriend, and her struggles with those roles. 

To the extent her personality was on display, she definitely showed the smart-alecness a bit in the comics that she does in the show. Talking back to Rorshach and the Comedian, for example, and in particular her mom.

[tennisgurl]

So a LOT happened this week, and its a lot to chew on, but my first thoughts...

The giant psychic squid really could have worked for a movie! I get why Zach Snyder would think it was too ridiculous for a movie, as we were still in a time where every superhero movie had to be "gritty" and "down to Earth" so I can see why they went a different way, but it could have worked! They did manage to make the squid really creepy and destructive, especially when young Wade went out of the funhouse and saw countless dead bodies littering the ground. 

Great getting more backstory on Looking Glass/Wade, that flashback was rough, no wonder he grew up to be so paranoid and isolated. He really does have the worst luck with women, even the women he just has dinner with turns out to be leading him into a trap. Considering his options were basically A. Betray Angela or B. Dont betray her and she and her whole family dies, I can see why he made the choice that he made. I hope that he tries to help her, and that he escapes the hit squad coming. I assume that Keene expected him to do something against him, and thats why he sent his guys after him. Poor guy is just such a mess, I am guessing that the multiple mirrors he was surrounded by saved him from being killed by the psychic blast, no wonder he keeps mirrors around his head all of the time. 

Poor clone puppy.

So not too surprisingly, Keene is a bad guy! Or a sketchy guy with ambiguous motives, because this is the Watchmen verse and its often hard to tell. So he says that he is just running the Kalvary to keep them in line, and thats also what Jud was doing, and they are also making a portal? Also, does everyone get a "by the way I dropped the squid lol" the second they join the government, or just this guy? I am guessing that he wants to become president and is using this as his ticket to the white house, either by "defeating" the Kalvary, releasing this secret to the world, or using it somehow. 

Spielberg making a squid attack movie instead of Schindlers List makes sense, considering it was basically their 9/11, just that it happened earlier. 

Yeah, maybe if your trying to get people to forget about the giant psychic death squid that landed in the city, dont remind people of kalimari. 

[Cardie]

37 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

Poor clone puppy.

When she asked Wade if he wanted it, I was yelling at the tv “Take it, take it” because I knew what the alternative would be. 

[rmontro]

1 hour ago, tennisgurl said:

The giant psychic squid really could have worked for a movie! I get why Zach Snyder would think it was too ridiculous for a movie, as we were still in a time where every superhero movie had to be "gritty" and "down to Earth" so I can see why they went a different way, but it could have worked!

I completely agree.  I remember a lot of comments at the time from die hard Watchmen fans who liked the "framing Dr. Manhattan" version and thought it was better and made more sense than the squid.  I didn't really care either way, but I generally feel if you're in doubt, stick to the original source material.

[AnimeMania]

On 11/19/2019 at 2:42 AM, mac123x said:

1.  When Wade's ex-wife said "I spent seven years trying to convince you that I wasn't going to run away with your clothes" they just HAD to cut back to the opening scene.  Yeah, I got the reference since only 20 minutes of screen time had passed.  I'm not a goldfish

I liked that Wade described his marriage to his ex-wife as 7 years of bad luck. Which is the punishment for breaking a mirror.

I am guessing that each pill of Nostalgia provides a different memory and the pills should be taken one at a time, instead of all at once.

Could somebody post a picture of the giant squid stretched out across the buildings of New York?

[Popples]

2 hours ago, AnimeMania said:

Could somebody post a picture of the giant squid stretched out across the buildings of New York?

[AnimeMania]

Thanks, that is a great image, nice and big, I can even see that it only has a single eye. I would not have described that as a giant squid. I wonder if anyone can post a picture of the baby space squid from the same episode that spends the 30 seconds that it is alive, dying.

[Morrigan2575]

On 11/20/2019 at 7:21 PM, AnimeMania said:

am guessing that each pill of Nostalgia provides a different memory and the pills should be taken one at a time, instead of all at once

Going back a bit, do we think Lady Trieu was giving Bian Nostalgia? That's how she was able to remember/having the nightmare? They also brought up cloning in this episode so it's possible Bian is Lady Trieu's clone (who could be a clone herself).

I hated the puppy scene...poor puppy.

I really like Wade so I hope he makes it out of this alive. 

I figured the Warden was another Clone/Mr. Phillips. I am curious as to how he is more self-aware than the others.

[Lantern7]

Finally watched this today. Wade was a lucky guy . . . got his clothes stolen, but then the squid landed, and him being bare-ass naked at a carnival probably didn't get questioned. Also, he was in the middle of a mirror maze, and he didn't look like he got cut to ribbons. On the other hand, he got turned into a paranoid. But seeing how A GIANT FUCKING SQUID [seem to come] FROM ANOTHER DIMENSION LANDED IN MANHATTAN AND KILLED HALF THE PEOPLE THERE, can you blame him?

Seeing the poor puppy get disposed, all I could think was "Is this a Jojo's reference?" #NeverForgetDanny

I like how Veidt is more or less separate from the plot. Like you get a break from the action to see a crazy old man and his mindless help trying to get out of their current environment via giant catapult. And, of course, he succeeds. Because he's Adrian Fucking Veidt. He recorded a message for President Redford years in advance. Okay, that part felt a little forced.

Carnival scene was fun, and not just with the religious Tulsa boy almost getting a hummer at the carnival. Anyone else see a "Veidt Method" ad on the back of a comic? And I recognized the Knot-Tops. Sure, they weren't as flashy as the Mutant Gang from Dark Knight Returns (which came out around the same time as Watchmen), but they do stand out. Also ringing out to me: Wade eating baked beans straight from the can. Funny that he's fighting the 7th Kavalry, and he's basically eating Rorscach's "Meal of Champion Paranoids."

[kay1864]

8 hours ago, Lantern7 said:

Anyone else see a "Veidt Method" ad on the back of a comic?  

Yep!  I’ll have to rewatch that scene to see if it had the same tagline as in the graphic novel:

Edited November 24, 2019 by kay1864

[Affogato]

On 11/21/2019 at 3:26 AM, AnimeMania said:

Thanks, that is a great image, nice and big, I can even see that it only has a single eye. I would not have described that as a giant squid. I wonder if anyone can post a picture of the baby space squid from the same episode that spends the 30 seconds that it is alive, dying.

My immediate impression was octopus, but when I look closer the tentacles are squid like.
the littles were small, translucent little cuttlefish. No ambiguity. 

[MarquisDeCarabas]

On 11/18/2019 at 11:23 AM, kay1864 said:

So why would Keene sanction one of his own to bring a bomb to a funeral he was attending?  Unless maybe the suicide bomber was a rogue?

Keane faked it to keep people from connecting him to 7th K. After Judd got killed, Keane had to be worried that someone might suspect him. 
 

it’s a callback Veidt faked his own assassination attempt to take himself off Rorschach’s suspect list

Edited December 3, 2019 by MarquisDeCarabas

[kay1864]

54 minutes ago, MarquisDeCarabas said:

Keane faked it to keep people from connecting him to 7th K.

Risky fake!

[Ubiquitous]

On ‎11‎/‎18‎/‎2019 at 1:15 AM, Dev F said:

Oh, I realized another thing that rang false about Veidt's squid confession: In sharing Veidt's tape and explaining how he learned about it, didn't Keene just confess to stealing and illegally disseminating highly classified government secrets obtained during the course of his legislative career? Isn't that basically the equivalent of a sitting senator becoming Edward Snowden, but instead of entrusting his secrets to a controversial journalist specializing in the surveillance state who promised him confidentiality, he just blabbed them to a cop he barely knows without any assurances that the guy won't immediately turn him in?

Anyone who turns him in risks revealing the Big Secret about 11/2, which no one wants to do.

On ‎11‎/‎17‎/‎2019 at 10:47 PM, scrb said:

His mask and alter ego is based on the sexual humiliation he endured in the fun house of mirrors before the 11/2 event -- why was he immune in the fun house?

Interesting point of proof for Laurie's theory about Masks being damaged people.

On ‎11‎/‎18‎/‎2019 at 7:36 AM, ottoDbusdriver said:

So Veidt may be on one of the moons of Jupiter -- unless that is also a construct by Dr. Manhattan.  And how would Veidt even know about that satellite ?  Not sure why he had to break off the arms of the clones since he piled them into large stacks to form the letters.

I thought he broke off the limbs because he didn't want the letters formed by the bodies to be ambiguous.

On ‎11‎/‎19‎/‎2019 at 4:54 AM, thuganomics85 said:

I knew Senator Keene was up to something!  So, he's running the Seventh Calvary, although he's claiming that he is actually keeping them on a leash and preventing them from going too far off the reservation.  He also claims that Judd knew and went along as well.  Hmm... curious to see where this is heading. 

In addition to Judd getting hanged and how Will found out?

On ‎11‎/‎19‎/‎2019 at 11:00 AM, Citizen A said:

Who thinks the "D" in "Save Me D" is Daniel?

I think Doctor Manhattan would make more sense, since what can Daniel do about it, even if he weren't imprisoned?

[Bruinsfan]

On 11/18/2019 at 1:48 PM, GustavMahler said:

I have to say that the opening flashback was brilliant! I have always enjoyed the Watchman movie, and respected Zach Snyder's decision to not use the Squid. But if he is watching this episode, I would not doubt that when he saw the Squid reveal, he might have thought: "Shit, I could have made it work."

Thinking back to Doomsday in Batman v. Superman, no he couldn't. Lindelhof made it work for a brief clip while it was mainly stationary, but you know Snyder would have had it waving its arms everywhere like a Willy Water Bug and destroying buildings all over Manhattan in graphic detail.

[Quickbeam]

Just watching this now for the first time. Wade’s ex-wife putting that puppy in the disposal drawer was the creepiest thing I’ve seen in forever.

[Anela]

On 8/23/2020 at 8:51 PM, Quickbeam said:

Just watching this now for the first time. Wade’s ex-wife putting that puppy in the disposal drawer was the creepiest thing I’ve seen in forever.

Same.  

Also, the skinny person in the supherhero outfit, had me thinking of the young FBI guy that's travelling with Blake.