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S01.E05: Little Fear of Lightning

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The origin story of Looking Glass is at last revealed, as is the truth behind the greatest hoax in American history. Far away, The Smartest Man In The World plots a daring escape.

Airing Sunday, November 17, 2019.

 

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So it was Manhattan keeping Veidt prisoner. Always go with your first instinct, I guess.

What the hell is Keene up to? And is Will and Lady Trieu working with him or against him?

I counted four different versions of "Careless Whisper" including the original.

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If anybody is interested in that guitar cover of Careless Whisper, here’s a video of the artist playing it. He’s pretty great.

On another note, why would Adrian Veidt make a video revealing the truth to President Redford and risk the truth coming out? Unless that’s also all part of his plan. 

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2 minutes ago, Xantar said:

On another note, why would Adrian Veidt make a video revealing the truth to President Redford and risk the truth coming out?

Because he needed Redford to be predictable and do what he wanted. Only way to do that is make him a co-conspirator.

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Thanks for posting that cover.  I loved all the Careless Whispers covers they did in the ep but like the acoustic guitar one the most.

Interesting  deep dive into Wade's past.  Liked the visual of him eating beans with his mask on just like Rorshach in the comics.  I hate that he gave up Angela, still hoping he survives and that he didn't drink all the Kavalry kool-aid.

Laurie stays awesome.  LOL.

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Whatever else you might say about Veidt destroying New York, he did help Looking Glass out of a potentially very embarrassing situation.

The videotape drove home that Jeremy Irons' portrayal of Veidt is the one aspect of this show that, so far, doesn't quite work for me.  This really doesn't remind me at all of the character on the page.  Veidt was extremely reserved, Irons is borderline manic.

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So LG literally wears a tin foil hat.

His mask and alter ego is based on the sexual humiliation he endured in the fun house of mirrors before the 11/2 event -- why was he immune in the fun house?

Wade lucked out that she turned out to be 7K or else he would have had to fuck Abby Donovan.

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24 minutes ago, SeanC said:

The videotape drove home that Jeremy Irons' portrayal of Veidt is the one aspect of this show that, so far, doesn't quite work for me.  This really doesn't remind me at all of the character on the page.  Veidt was extremely reserved, Irons is borderline manic.

I dunno, I always read Veidt as sort of a clean-cut bon vivant, apt to give saucy interviews to lifestyle magazines and show off his acrobatic talents on TV. So Irons's basic persona seems about right to me.

But I'm not sure I buy the premise of his videotape more specifically -- that after murdering probably dozens of people, including a fellow superhero, to create a perfect pyramid of secrecy around the true origins of the squid attack, he would create a video record of the whole thing to send to Robert Redford. If he'd planned so ingeniously to usher in the Redford administration, you'd think he could've figured out a way to get Redford behind his new political program without having to tell him the secret that could bring it all crashing down! He's not a Republic serial villain, after all.

It would've been more interesting, I think, if the evidence of Veidt's crimes had been something less on-the-nose. For instance, it could've been the deposition hinted at in the show's supplemental materials: Laurie Blake spilling everything she knows about Veidt's plans to Redford in exchange for clemency. But maybe there'll be more to it -- say, it's another fabrication, a fake video created by the devotees of Rorschach's journal to put across his message without all of Rorschach's baggage?

3 minutes ago, scrb said:

His mask and alter ego is based on the sexual humiliation he endured in the fun house of mirrors before the 11/2 event -- why was he immune in the fun house?

Apparently the psychic shock wasn't 100 percent fatal even at close range; we see other survivors at the carnival, and Spielberg's movie about 11/2 apparently had a Girl in the Red Dress wandering around under the arms of the squid in Lower Manhattan.

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For a show that takes great pains to depict violent injustice, appropriating Schindler’s List in such a way was cheap. I see no reason for it other than a “joke” Pop culture reference to amuse rather to depict anything impactfuI. It came off exploitative rather than insightful and some of the responses I’ve read regarding it are how many amusing it is. 

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Oh, I realized another thing that rang false about Veidt's squid confession: In sharing Veidt's tape and explaining how he learned about it, didn't Keene just confess to stealing and illegally disseminating highly classified government secrets obtained during the course of his legislative career? Isn't that basically the equivalent of a sitting senator becoming Edward Snowden, but instead of entrusting his secrets to a controversial journalist specializing in the surveillance state who promised him confidentiality, he just blabbed them to a cop he barely knows without any assurances that the guy won't immediately turn him in?

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13 minutes ago, Dev F said:

Oh, I realized another thing that rang false about Veidt's squid confession: In sharing Veidt's tape and explaining how he learned about it, didn't Keene just confess to stealing and illegally disseminating highly classified government secrets obtained during the course of his legislative career? Isn't that basically the equivalent of a sitting senator becoming Edward Snowden, but instead of entrusting his secrets to a controversial journalist specializing in the surveillance state who promised him confidentiality, he just blabbed them to a cop he barely knows without any assurances that the guy won't immediately turn him in?

before that he had admitted to said police officer that he was in league with a white supremacist terrorist organization, I'm pretty sure that the theft of secret information is down on his list of things to be concerned about.

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3 minutes ago, MrWhyt said:

before that he had admitted to said police officer that he was in league with a white supremacist terrorist organization, I'm pretty sure that the theft of secret information is down on his list of things to be concerned about.

True, but whether Keene's conspiring with the Kavalry is a he-said/he-said situation at this point. Whereas if Glass can offer a detailed description of one of the government's most closely guarded secrets, that's pretty strong corroboration of the fact that Keene shared it with him.

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58 minutes ago, Dev F said:

Oh, I realized another thing that rang false about Veidt's squid confession: In sharing Veidt's tape and explaining how he learned about it, didn't Keene just confess to stealing and illegally disseminating highly classified government secrets obtained during the course of his legislative career? Isn't that basically the equivalent of a sitting senator becoming Edward Snowden, but instead of entrusting his secrets to a controversial journalist specializing in the surveillance state who promised him confidentiality, he just blabbed them to a cop he barely knows without any assurances that the guy won't immediately turn him in?

That’s probably why Keene has sent a hit squad to Wade’s house. 

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12 hours ago, scrb said:

So LG literally wears a tin foil hat.

His mask and alter ego is based on the sexual humiliation he endured in the fun house of mirrors before the 11/2 event -- why was he immune in the fun house?

Perhaps the reflective nature of the mirrors in the funhouse provided Wade some protection from the psychic blast.  My guess is based on the obvious properties Wade's mask and inner lining of his hat was made of.

Edited by grawlix · Reason: lining, not line
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7 hours ago, OptimisticCynic said:

For a show that takes great pains to depict violent injustice, appropriating Schindler’s List in such a way was cheap. I see no reason for it other than a “joke” Pop culture reference to amuse rather to depict anything impactfuI. It came off exploitative rather than insightful and some of the responses I’ve read regarding it are how many amusing it is. 

I didn’t find it funny in context in the show.

It shows how the zeitgeist took a left turn at squidfall. Still our world but there are new traumas. 
 

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So Veidt may be on one of the moons of Jupiter -- unless that is also a construct by Dr. Manhattan.  And how would Veidt even know about that satellite ?  Not sure why he had to break off the arms of the clones since he piled them into large stacks to form the letters.

Pale Rider was the name of a band playing at MSG on 11/2, and that was also the name of the film mentioned by Renee.  For a moment there, I thought Renee was going to say that she was inspiration for the little girl in the red coat in the film. Does Clint Eastwood's film Pale Rider not exist in the Watchmen universe ? 

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10 hours ago, AimingforYoko said:

So it was Manhattan keeping Veidt prisoner.

I'm sure that is the case, but was that confirmed? I can't imagine it's not Dr. Manhattan, I just don't recall them explicitly saying it. 

Same thing with Veidt, it wasn't confirmed until the 3rd or 4th episode, but it was pretty obvious from the beginning.  

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1 hour ago, ottoDbusdriver said:

So Veidt may be on one of the moons of Jupiter -- unless that is also a construct by Dr. Manhattan.  And how would Veidt even know about that satellite ?  Not sure why he had to break off the arms of the clones since he piled them into large stacks to form the letters.

Pale Rider was the name of a band playing at MSG on 11/2, and that was also the name of the film mentioned by Renee.  For a moment there, I thought Renee was going to say that she was inspiration for the little girl in the red coat in the film. Does Clint Eastwood's film Pale Rider not exist in the Watchmen universe ? 

I thought the movie was called “Pale Horse.”

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3 hours ago, ottoDbusdriver said:

So Veidt may be on one of the moons of Jupiter -- unless that is also a construct by Dr. Manhattan.  And how would Veidt even know about that satellite ?  Not sure why he had to break off the arms of the clones since he piled them into large stacks to form letters  

Character point. He’s obsessive. Neat. 

Edited by Affogato

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16 minutes ago, link417 said:

I thought the movie was called “Pale Horse.”

I refuse to look it up because I'm pretty sure I'm right, but wasn't the Eastwood movie Pale RIDER? 

Again, not looking it up. 🙂

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2 hours ago, ottoDbusdriver said:

So Veidt may be on one of the moons of Jupiter -- unless that is also a construct by Dr. Manhattan.  And how would Veidt even know about that satellite ?  Not sure why he had to break off the arms of the clones since he piled them into large stacks to form the letters.

I would think mankind would explore the moons and planets in the solar system regardless of Dr. Manhattan's existence.  The spacecraft was probably launched prior to the events of the movie.  Knowledge of missions that were developed by their NASA equivalent would be accessible to the public.

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1 hour ago, Uncle JUICE said:

I refuse to look it up because I'm pretty sure I'm right, but wasn't the Eastwood movie Pale RIDER? 

Again, not looking it up. 🙂

I looked it up. It is “pale Rider”. 

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12 hours ago, Dev F said:

But I'm not sure I buy the premise of his videotape more specifically -- that after murdering probably dozens of people, including a fellow superhero

Doctor Manhattan killed Rorschach.  Not Veidt.

Oh wait, you're referring to the Comedian?

Edited by kay1864

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38 minutes ago, Affogato said:

I looked it up. It is “pale Rider”. 

True.  And the band playing at MSG (and the title of Spielberg's movie) is Pale Horse.

2 hours ago, Superclam said:

I'm sure that is the case, but was that confirmed? I can't imagine it's not Dr. Manhattan, I just don't recall them explicitly saying it. 

Agreed, because not even Trieu can create that environment on one of Jupiter's moons (Europa?) with an Earthlike gravity.

That said, is the Warden a robot?  A projection / duplicate of Manhattan?

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9 hours ago, MrWhyt said:

before that he had admitted to said police officer that he was in league with a white supremacist terrorist organization,

So why would Keene sanction one of his own to bring a bomb to a funeral he was attending?  Unless maybe the suicide bomber was a rogue?

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38 minutes ago, kay1864 said:

Doctor Manhattan killed Rorschach.  Not Veidt.

Oh wait, you're referring to the Comedian?

Right.

26 minutes ago, kay1864 said:

So why would Keene sanction one of his own to bring a bomb to a funeral he was attending?  Unless maybe the suicide bomber was a rogue?

Or the Kavalry has never seen their leader without his mask on and doesn't know it's Keene?

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1 hour ago, kay1864 said:

That said, is the Warden a robot?  A projection / duplicate of Manhattan?

Oh wait, never mind.  I think I've solved the mystery.

warden.jpg

roberts.jpg

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1 hour ago, kay1864 said:

That said, is the Warden a robot?  A projection / duplicate of Manhattan?

I'm pretty sure it's Tom Mison under the mask so, either he's just another "Mr. Phillips," albeit one with more...self awareness, or some reflection of Manhattan.  It certainly would be interesting if the clones all looked like Jon did before the accident that made him Manhattan.  

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4 hours ago, Uncle JUICE said:

I refuse to look it up because I'm pretty sure I'm right, but wasn't the Eastwood movie Pale RIDER? 

Again, not looking it up. 🙂

I wasn’t talking about the Eastwood movie; I was talking about the movie referenced in the show.

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16 hours ago, AimingforYoko said:

So it was Manhattan keeping Veidt prisoner. Always go with your first instinct, I guess.

What the hell is Keene up to? And is Will and Lady Trieu working with him or against him?

I still don't think that Dr. Manhattan cares enough about humanity to bother with Veidt in any way, let alone in this particular way. But we will see.

I imagine Keene is manuevering himself to become president by some combination of manipulating the Rohrshachs into being the villains in his story and/or being prepared to drop a truth bomb as to 11/2. 

I'm assuming that Will/Lady Trieu are against him. Will mentioned a vast conspiracy operating in Tulsa, and as far as we know 7th Cav is the only such conspiracy (unless he was referring to the Veidt plot behind 11/2 and its aftermath somehow). They somehow hanged Judd, who he tells us he was working with, and Keene wants Looking Glass to implicate Angela, while Will/Trieu apparently want Angela to join forces with them.

16 hours ago, Xantar said:

On another note, why would Adrian Veidt make a video revealing the truth to President Redford and risk the truth coming out? Unless that’s also all part of his plan. 

Veidt likes explaining his genius to people who are able to appreciate it and in no position to do anything about it. We see this in OG Watchmen, where he explains to Nite Owl and Rohrshach what he has done when it is 35 minutes after he has put his scheme in motion. He probably expects Redford to be in the same moral checkmate that he felt the heroes in OG Watchmen to be in, where their ratting him out to the authorities would jeopardize the world peace that those 3 million lives bought.

The real question in my mind is why Redford would let the knowledge of this spread to random junior senator from Oklahoma.

16 hours ago, DearEvette said:

Interesting  deep dive into Wade's past.  Liked the visual of him eating beans with his mask on just like Rorshach in the comics.  I hate that he gave up Angela, still hoping he survives and that he didn't drink all the Kavalry kool-aid.

I think we are to take that he retrieved the extradimensional alarm system from his trash that Wade did not wholeheartedly buy what 7K was selling, or at least, that he was willing to hedge his bets.

One thing I was wondering was why Wade didn't tell Angela that Laurie knew about the drugs before he was asked to sell her out. Or for that matter, why Angela would ask Wade about the drugs in the office rather than somewhere more private.

16 hours ago, SeanC said:

The videotape drove home that Jeremy Irons' portrayal of Veidt is the one aspect of this show that, so far, doesn't quite work for me.  This really doesn't remind me at all of the character on the page.  Veidt was extremely reserved, Irons is borderline manic.

The way I read Veidt in the comics was that he was demonstrating tons of false modesty, in part because he wanted to keep a low profile. Once he got away with his scheme, his exuberant yell of "I did it!" shows that he probably had a lot more in common with Jeremy Irons' portrayal than what we see early on in the graphic novel. 

15 hours ago, OptimisticCynic said:

For a show that takes great pains to depict violent injustice, appropriating Schindler’s List in such a way was cheap. I see no reason for it other than a “joke” Pop culture reference to amuse rather to depict anything impactfuI. It came off exploitative rather than insightful and some of the responses I’ve read regarding it are how many amusing it is. 

I haven't watched Schindler's List in years. What was the appropriation? That in the Watchmenverse, in 1992, Spielberg did a film about 11/2 instead of Schindler's List?

13 hours ago, Dev F said:

Oh, I realized another thing that rang false about Veidt's squid confession: In sharing Veidt's tape and explaining how he learned about it, didn't Keene just confess to stealing and illegally disseminating highly classified government secrets obtained during the course of his legislative career? Isn't that basically the equivalent of a sitting senator becoming Edward Snowden, but instead of entrusting his secrets to a controversial journalist specializing in the surveillance state who promised him confidentiality, he just blabbed them to a cop he barely knows without any assurances that the guy won't immediately turn him in?

Keene addresses this somewhat explicitly in the episode: if Looking Glass comes forward and tries to implicate Keene, it would be fairly easy to discredit him as the tinfoil-wearing crazy he is.

7 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Wade casually watching super hero porn while eating baked beans straight out of a can had me laughing.

I think that was supposed to be American Hero Story, rather than a pure porno. Those were characters from the Minutemen, Hooded Justice and Captain Metropolis. In OG Watchmen, or at least in Beyond Watchmen, the two were a couple. Laurie's mom, the original Silk Spectre, acted as a beard for Hooded Justice.

6 hours ago, ottoDbusdriver said:

So Veidt may be on one of the moons of Jupiter -- unless that is also a construct by Dr. Manhattan.  And how would Veidt even know about that satellite ?  Not sure why he had to break off the arms of the clones since he piled them into large stacks to form the letters.

Pale Rider was the name of a band playing at MSG on 11/2, and that was also the name of the film mentioned by Renee.  For a moment there, I thought Renee was going to say that she was inspiration for the little girl in the red coat in the film. Does Clint Eastwood's film Pale Rider not exist in the Watchmen universe ? 

I don't know if Veidt knew about the satellite before seeing it.

Pale Horse was the name of the band playing on 11/2 and the Spielberg film.

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I have to say that the opening flashback was brilliant! I have always enjoyed the Watchman movie, and respected Zach Snyder's decision to not use the Squid. But if he is watching this episode, I would not doubt that when he saw the Squid reveal, he might have thought: "Shit, I could have made it work."

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3 minutes ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

Veidt likes explaining his genius to people who are able to appreciate it and in no position to do anything about it. We see this in OG Watchmen, where he explains to Nite Owl and Rohrshach what he has done when it is 35 minutes after he has put his scheme in motion.

But it's not like he calls them into his office to blab his plan because he can't help himself; they figure out what happened and track him down. Until that happens, Adrian's MO is to maintain complete secrecy.

I would honestly have had much less problem with logic of the video if it were established that Veidt recorded it after the squidfall, once he'd seen that Dan, Laurie, and Dr. Manhattan were willing to keep his secret, and after Dr. Manhattan tweaked his anxiety by telling him that nothing ever ends. At that point I could imagine him confiding in another great man type like Redford to keep his plan moving forward if anything ever happened to him. But the idea that this is what he had in mind all along doesn't really ring true to me.

Quote

Keene addresses this somewhat explicitly in the episode: if Looking Glass comes forward and tries to implicate Keene, it would be fairly easy to discredit him as the tinfoil-wearing crazy he is.

Except that anyone else in the government who has also seen the video will know that he's not crazy. I can't imagine that the Redford administration or senior Senate democrats would fail to jump at the chance to take out a prominent Republican for leaking TS/SCI.

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I, too, wonder how Veidt knew that satellite would be there. And he checked one of his timepieces, like he knew exactly how long he had to create his message.

And what was the rest of his message? There was a ‘D’ at the end, was it a message to Dr. Manhattan?

I don’t think the warden is Dr. Manhattan. When he said their god had abandoned them and is unlikely to return, I took that to mean Dr. Manhattan. No supporting evidence, just a hunch.

For context, I haven’t read the comic books, and I saw the 2009 movie but just for the visuals, I couldn’t even give a brief overview of the plot. I’m not doing the peteypedia homework for the show, either; I’m content with not knowing until the show presents the answers (or I read them here).

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3 hours ago, Proclone said:

I'm pretty sure it's Tom Mison under the mask so, either he's just another "Mr. Phillips," albeit one with more...self awareness, or some reflection of Manhattan.  It certainly would be interesting if the clones all looked like Jon did before the accident that made him Manhattan.  

I’m sure you’re right but I too thought Cary Elwes was playing the Warden. 

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17 minutes ago, Dev F said:

But it's not like he calls them into his office to blab his plan because he can't help himself; they figure out what happened and track him down. Until that happens, Adrian's MO is to maintain complete secrecy.

I would honestly have had much less problem with logic of the video if it were established that Veidt recorded it after the squidfall, once he'd seen that Dan, Laurie, and Dr. Manhattan were willing to keep his secret, and after Dr. Manhattan tweaked his anxiety by telling him that nothing ever ends. At that point I could imagine him confiding in another great man type like Redford to keep his plan moving forward if anything ever happened to him. But the idea that this is what he had in mind all along doesn't really ring true to me.

Except that anyone else in the government who has also seen the video will know that he's not crazy. I can't imagine that the Redford administration or senior Senate democrats would fail to jump at the chance to take out a prominent Republican for leaking TS/SCI.

If Veidt felt like he had to eliminate all loose ends even after he succeeded, he could easily have killed Laurie and Dan at any point between when he revealed the plot and the present of the TV show. Heck, he could have spun a half-dozen lies about what he had done even as he was confronted with it. None of the heroes had what could be really considered concrete proof of Veidt's guilt. The way I read things -- and of course, mileage may vary -- is that he enjoys getting to do his humble brags.

I think him telling Redford that he set all this in motion as of Nov. 1, 1985 is more of the same. He could have just left that part out that he was making that record back then. He could have sent a fresh video as of 1992/3. He wanted to brag that as part of his plan, he had been working to engineer Redford's presidency for the seven years prior.

Fortunately for Keene, no one can go after him about leaking top secret information without admitting that the top secret information is true. So even if LG does spill the beans and point to Keene as the source of his info, Keene's potential opponents have a vested interest in not giving the information legitimacy by acting against him. Keene might think that is something he can bank on.

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4 hours ago, Dev F said:

Except that anyone else in the government who has also seen the video will know that he's not crazy. I can't imagine that the Redford administration or senior Senate democrats would fail to jump at the chance to take out a prominent Republican for leaking TS/SCI.

perhaps they value world peace more than scoring points against their political opponents. The "threat" of an extra-dimensional invasion is what stopped the march towards WW3, prosecuting the senator for leaking the info is inevitably going to let the world in on the secret.

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14 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Wade casually watching super hero porn while eating baked beans straight out of a can had me laughing.

Was he watching super hero porn or was it an episode of American Hero Story, which is produced by Ryan Murphy in the Watchmen-verse?

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Bit of background (from the graphic novel) on Wade’s funhouse tormenter and her friends:

”The Knot Tops were a New York City gang, or perhaps a youth subculture, replacing the skinheads of our world in the 1980s, characterized by wearing their hair in knots resting on the tops of their heads Japanese-style, aprons, and leather jackets with kanji-looking shapes. 

Knot Tops frequently use recreational drugs, especially KT-28s or "katies". These seem to exacerbate the youths' already aggressive behavior.”

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As much as I enjoy watching Laurie do her badass thing, I do not want her to "win" in the end. (As much as I expect anyone to come out unscathed by the last episode.) I'm rooting for Angela and/or Wade (I want to believe he'll pull something out of his shiny hat and make up for the cactus betrayal).

I choose to pretend I didn't see the imperfect cloned canine's demise.

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I really enjoyed this episode!  Great character piece.  However the director must of thought the audience were idiots:  

1.  When Wade's ex-wife said "I spent seven years trying to convince you that I wasn't going to run away with your clothes" they just HAD to cut back to the opening scene.  Yeah, I got the reference since only 20 minutes of screen time had passed.  I'm not a goldfish

2. When Wade ratted out Angela, multiple camera angles were used, most of which made sure to frame the cactus front and center.  Again, I can remember its importance without having it thrust in my face repeatedly.

11 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

Or for that matter, why Angela would ask Wade about the drugs in the office rather than somewhere more private.

Because so far Angela has been kind of dumb.  I mean, she's a good detective, but she's also been led around by the nose for the entire plot with her grandfather.

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5 hours ago, HunterHunted said:

Was he watching super hero porn or was it an episode of American Hero Story, which is produced by Ryan Murphy in the Watchmen-verse?

I have not watched or read anything Watchmen related aside from this show so to a newbie, that was superhero porn!

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20 minutes ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I have not watched or read anything Watchmen related aside from this show so to a newbie, that was superhero porn!

American Hero Story was shown and discussed in the first episode. It's not from the comics or any outside media. In the show, Ryan Murphy produces a flashy historic hero anthology, American Hero Story, instead of producing American Horror Story, American Crime Story, or Feud. If you aren't familiar with Murphy's oeuvre, you might miss the reference.

Edited by HunterHunted
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I knew Senator Keene was up to something!  So, he's running the Seventh Calvary, although he's claiming that he is actually keeping them on a leash and preventing them from going too far off the reservation.  He also claims that Judd knew and went along as well.  Hmm... curious to see where this is heading.  Always nice to see Paula Malcomson as well.

Cool seeing the origin story of Tillman/Looking Glass and Time Blake Nelson did a good job with all of it.  Now that he knows Veidt was actually the one responsible for the squid attack in NYC, I'm guessing this will change the way he operates.  He's already taken a big step by betraying Angela.

So, in this universe, Steven Spielberg never made Schindler's List, but a film about the events of 11/2 instead.  And, of course, he still won a ton of Oscars for it!  The question I have is did Liam Neeson and Ralph Fiennes still have starring roles in it?!

Veidt seems to be trapped on one of Jupiter's moons?  And The Watchmen is also played by Tom Mison?  Is he another clone or the original specimen?

Looks like next week's episode is going to be a pretty trippy one, and that's saying something for this show!

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8 hours ago, HunterHunted said:

Was he watching super hero porn or was it an episode of American Hero Story, which is produced by Ryan Murphy in the Watchmen-verse?

Both. 

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I didn't care much for this series from the early episodes, but it's slowly won me over.  I'm now enjoying it.   It's not the greatest thing since sliced bread, but I'm enjoying it.  I wish they'd move some things along a little faster, but I'm sure it is on pace to all come together at the end.

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