S15.E01: Back and to the Future

[SueB]

Quote

SUPERNATURAL
“Back and to the Future” – (8:00-9:00 p.m. ET) (TV-14, V) (HDTV)

THE BEGINNING OF THE END – Picking up here we left off last season, Sam (Jared Padalecki), Dean (Jensen Ackles) and Castiel (Misha Collins) are left to defend the world after all the souls in hell have been released and are back on Earth and free to kill again. John Showalter directed the episode written by Andrew Dabb (#1502). Original airdate 10/10/2019.

CW Press Release

[SueB]

Song for the day (at least for me):

Happy Supernatural Day!

[Frost]

Thanks for posting this.  I completely forgot the premiere was tonight!

[Jynnan tonnix]

I hadn't thought about the show in some time, but happened to think, yesterday, that it generally came back October-ish, and, lo and behold, discovered that I'd thought of it just in time! I'm glad that I don't have a long time of waiting and anticipation, but kind of sad that I hadn't actually thought about it in months...

[gonzosgirrl]

I believe the title is Back and to the Future.

[SueB]

3 hours ago, gonzosgirrl said:

I believe the title is Back and to the Future.

Fixed

[KayCordingly]

I wonder what tonight's season premiere song is going to be? Since it's the last one, it should be something epic.

[gonzosgirrl]

7 minutes ago, KayCordingly said:

I wonder what tonight's season premiere song is going to be? Since it's the last one, it should be something epic.

They're never afraid to be too on the nose, so given Dabb's tweet, R.E.M. is a safe bet. Or maybe Final Countdown? LOL!

[hebrouw]

35 minutes in and this may be the worst episode ever. I've watched for 15 years and omg. The actors are very good the story sucks! I hope the writing is better going forward.

[gonzosgirrl]

5 hours ago, KayCordingly said:

I wonder what tonight's season premiere song is going to be? Since it's the last one, it should be something epic.

Not really epic, not even new: Famous Final Scene.

[Jediknight]

"He's been playing us this whole time."

They're setting up that Chuck isn't actually God, and just a being that imprisoned God and stole his powers, aren't they?

[Katy M]

I like demon Jack better than Jack Jack.

I legit laughed when Cas said that he wouldn't starve to death.

I don't know why Dean told Jack that he didn't "deserve this."  Did her forget that he killed Mary.  Among other things.

Demon Jack is right.  Dean is gorgeous.

Dean didn't take the woman in white home. Sam did.

Were we supposed o know who that guy ghost was with Lizzie  Borden, Bloody Mary and John Wayne Gacy. Becaue I didn't know. Also not quite sure why Bloody Mary was in the water. Sure, water is a reflective surface, but the dude from Red Sky or little Timmy from Dead in the water would have made more sense.

Besides ghosts that they've killed, might be interesting to see people that they killed who would have gone to Hell.  Such as Pa Bender.  Or psychic dude from the Mentalists.  

I'm assuming that Sam's gunshot wound is going to have more repercussions?  especially since they bothered to make it uncassable and had an "energy."  

1 minute ago, Jediknight said:

"He's been playing us this whole time."

They're setting up that Chuck isn't actually God, and just a being that imprisoned God and stole his powers, aren't they?

All along or just the last epi?  Because I think Amara would have known the difference?  I even feel like Lucifer and Metatron should have known somehow.

[SueB]

First thoughts:

A+ use of Bob Seger.  The singer has been a personal favorite for 40 years.  I love that he’s so tied to the show.  Perfect starting montage.

Demon Ex Machina Not!Jack:  We need someone funny in the car.  I approve.  I have to believe Chuck is still manipulating them.  They needed a plot device and out pops a demon with specific spell work.  The boys better question him hard next week or I’m gonna be upset.  But the meta is confusing.  Are we supposed to recognize that this was Chuck toying with them some more or do they think we’ll just assume this was a lucky break. 

- Sammy’s not okay.   I’m glad Dean pointed out nonexit wound.  He knows there’s more to the wound than meets the eye.  I love the knock knock joke nostalgia.  I’ll eat that up with a spoon every day. 

- Rowena via phone: still fabulous.  

- Demon fanboying over Dean’s Hell art! 👍👍

- So MANY clues to pick apart.  It’ll take a while.  Cage open, Michael there. 

- Sam I LOVE the notion you are free if you ‘win’, I don’t trust it.  

- The pacing of the ghost attacks was slow. I get it; ghosts (and clowns) kill.  But Sam is more capable than he was shown to be.

- Cas punkin.  Dean’s mad but you’re still family.  His first question was if you are okay.  This will heal.  

- This episode feels like we’ve left a lot hanging til next week.  

Finally: Joygasm for the quick flashback to Season 1 as they shut the car.  I’m here for that. 

Bottom line:  Demon ex machina has me worried but I like the parameters of the season thus far.  

Edited October 11, 2019 by SueB

[SueB]

12 minutes ago, Katy M said:

Were we supposed o know who that guy ghost was with Lizzie  Borden, Bloody Mary and John Wayne Gacy. Becaue I didn't know. 

No idea.  Logically it would be something that had spirit time because it was capable of moving. 

[gonzosgirrl]

15 minutes ago, Katy M said:

I don't know why Dean told Jack that he didn't "deserve this."  Did her forget that he killed Mary.  Among other things.

I thought that was Sam? 

I can't spend 20 episodes hating the writing, so I'm just going to admire Dean and whatever good moments there are. 

Demon Jack had more personality in 10 minutes than Jack did in 20 episodes. But did they say the demon's name was Balthazar? They couldn't come up with anything else?

Leave it to Dabb to have Dean shrug off being reminded of breaking in helllike it was NBD. Ass. Okay so maybe I spend one minute hating on the writing. 

[Katy M]

1 minute ago, gonzosgirrl said:

I thought that was Sam? 

I thought it was Dean, but it doesn't really matter. Either way.  I guess it makes more sense if it was Sam, but Dean did say later that he was their kid.  Sigh.

2 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Demon Jack had more personality in 10 minutes than Jack did in 20 episodes. But did they say the demon's name was Balthazar? They couldn't come up with anything else?

I think it was close to that, but I don't think it was quite that.  It doesn't help that he said it once and that was it.

3 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

eave it to Dabb to have Dean shrug off being reminded of breaking in helllike it was NBD. Ass. Okay so maybe I spend one minute hating on the writing. 

I think it was in character, though.  They were in the middle of something, and plus, he's not going to share his feelings with a demon.

[Aeryn13]

I read it was "Belphegor".

[Katy M]

IMDB just calls him cadaverous ghost so I guess he was nobody.  That's OK. With 2 billion ghosts there are going to be a ton with no prior connection, so statistically speaking, it makes sense.

And that little girl was supercute.

But, at the end of the Moriah, wasn't the clown ghost going into a birthday party?  Did he slaughter everyone except the mom and her daughter?  Hey, that rhymed.  But, mostly that's a little disturbing.

Edited October 11, 2019 by Katy M

[Katy M]

Just now, PAForrest said:

And, sorry, but those monster souls should be from Purgatory, not Hell. More Dabbernatural LOL!canon.

They weren't monsters. They were ghosts.  I don't think we've seen anything that indicates that ghosts go to Purgatory.  Just the opposite.  We know Bobby ended up in Hell after he was a ghost.  And we know mary ended up in Heaven after she was a ghost.

[gonzosgirrl]

43 minutes ago, Katy M said:

I thought it was Dean, but it doesn't really matter. Either way.  I guess it makes more sense if it was Sam, but Dean did say later that he was their kid.  Sigh.

You're right - he said both things. A least there was a 'kinda' on the kid thing. Blech.

[ahrtee]

11 minutes ago, Katy M said:

They weren't monsters. They were ghosts.  I don't think we've seen anything that indicates that ghosts go to Purgatory.  Just the opposite.  We know Bobby ended up in Hell after he was a ghost.  And we know mary ended up in Heaven after she was a ghost.

Except how come some of the ghosts needed new bodies (that is, all the zombies from the graveyard) and some just manifested as they used to be?  (Albeit with different actors 😊  Maybe those were their new bodies!)

Basic thoughts:  it wasn't as bad as I was afraid; it was more blah than anything.  I get the feeling they're trying to pump up Alex's career (playing Jack sure didn't do him any good) and so they're giving him the chance to  show what he can do with a more interesting character.

The LOL!canon in everything with the ghosts (and the boys' skills) was way beyond belief.  It makes my head hurt just to think about it, so I decided to ignore it (whenever possible).  The ghost scenes were simultaneously slow, boring and OTT.  Pretty hard to pull off all three.  

Dean was very pretty.  DemonJack was kind of fun, though nothing new.  Cas was...off.  They're back to giving him powers ex-machina (that is, they work when they've written themselves into a corner but not when they want the story to go another way.)  

But I'm proud to say that I called "The Famous Final Scene" back in June (I think it's the only thing I've ever predicted  for SPN that actually came true!)

[KayCordingly]

Oh my poor wifey! She hates clowns, which was like half of this episode. She kept having to cover her eyes. 😓

I enjoyed this one. I'm especially fond of DemonJack and I hope he sticks around for a bit. Is it bad that I like him better than regular Jack?

[SueB]

Additional thoughts:

1) Either it’s because Dabb wrote the script or it’s a plot point but EVERYTHING Not!Jack said sounded like Chuck.   The word usage, the phrasing, the inflection.  Watch again and listen.  I THINK it’s not Chuck but it sure had his banter.  I do not trust Not!Jack.

2) I’m going to have to rewatch the imagery Sam had when Cas tried to heal him.  That visual of Sam is not something we’ve seen.  Chuck operates out of time and space — was that a flash forward?

[TheGreenKnight]

I thought it was an okay episode. The little flicker of Sam in red light when Castiel was dealing with the wound reminded me of when he was dealing with the wall Death put in his soul and he was having a mental breakdown.

[ahrtee]

One interesting thought about Sam being OK with Chuck creating everything and that nothing was their own choice--that exonerates him from *everything*--Ruby, demon blood, the Apocalypse, raising Amara....so he has nothing left to atone for.  Nothing was his fault.  😁

ETA:  And before I have to duck the angry Sam fans, no I don't mean that Sam had that thought and that's why he's OK with it.  I just wonder if anyone will remind him of it.  

Edited October 11, 2019 by ahrtee
Clarification.

[Samwise979]

I thought it was kind of slow. Checked my phone a couple of times. I hope it picks up and really goes out with a bang. I want to get to the end of the episodes/season and think, that was effing awesome!

I liked regular Jack but I LOVE demon Jack! I hope they don't find a way to bring Jack back and this is who he is for the rest of the season. I don't need him to be a good guy but I'd like it if he wasn't the "big bad" too. Kinda like Rowena or Crowley.... Can't trust them but sometimes they're on the right side of things. 

My memory is fuzzy, was it Amy Acker that originally played the woman in white? 

[Cambion]

Initial reaction, pretty good.    Saw several weak spots, but all in all better than I expected -- although, for the record, I was expecting a hot mess of nothing, so the bar was exceedingly low.

Anyway, only one watch, everything below is subject to change!  So in no particular order.  lol

I agree with the above, DemonJack is infinitely better than real Jack and I actually enjoyed Alex's performance, so he can act.  Not just stand around looking bland.

The demon is Belphegor.  

"

In demonology, Belphegor (or Beelphegor, Hebrew: בַּעַל-פְּעוֹר‎ baʿal-pə[ġ]ʿōr - Lord of the Gap) is a demon, and one of the seven princes of Hell, who helps people make discoveries. He seduces people by suggesting to them ingenious inventions that will make them rich.

Bishop and witch-hunter Peter Binsfeld believed that Belphegor tempts by means of laziness.[1] Also, according to Peter Binsfeld's Binsfeld's Classification of Demons, Belphegor is the chief demon of the deadly sin known as Sloth in Christian tradition.[2]

"

From Wikipedia.  Soooooo, this could have some interesting repercussions.  I liked that he said he'd be looking for another body cause I thought, good, no more Jack.  But then I realized that would just open up the door for some miraculous Jack saving and thought better of it.  I think BelphegorJack can stay, and not only because he's going to have three guilty, angry "Dads" constantly reminded of Jack, but because he's actually got a personality and is a little interesting.

I don't find it too deus ex machina that Belphegor  zeroed right in on the Winchesters.  So that worked, a Prince of Hell would go right at them, if only to get some payback for the Princes and the other Deadly Sins they've put down.  Provided of course he doesn't get too lazy.  

Dean worrying about starving to death?  rofl.  🙂  Cas rubbing in the not needing to eat?  Touche.  

I was a little confused by Lizzie Borden, I don't remember that they put the real actual Lizzie down.  But maybe I'm wrong.  Or she was just there by happenstance. Whatevs, that was fun, but threw me for a moment.

The actor playing John Wayne Gacy was so good and creepy!  I might even have to join Sam in his coulrophobia now cause geeeeeeeezzzzzzz.  *shudder*

The gun in the glove box will come back to haunt us later. Mark my words. haha

Knock, knock.

And why, oh why did they have Dean say, "it shouldn't have happened to him." over Jack's body?  Bad show, wrong character for that sentiment at that time.  It's not time for Dean to have those kind of feels yet.  He's still in the beating-something-until-it-stops-moving phase.  Also, didn't buy Dean saying "he's kinda our kid."  Again, not time for him to be feeling that, if ever, IMO.

Dean's reaction to Belphegor fanboying over him was good.  Dean's not going to react in front of a stranger - especially a demon - in any way that would indicate a weakness.  He was barely able to share his experience in Hell with Sam!  So, the hesitation, the flicker across the eyes, Jensen nailed it.

I liked all the shoutouts to the S1E1  especially at the very end with the "we got work to do" trunk shot.  Dammit show! They took out my appendix, not my feels!

Well, we're on the roller coaster now.  There's no getting off until the end.  

Edited October 11, 2019 by Cambion
can't spell and grammar who?

[catrox14]

Nope. That was just plain bad in general.  The acting was not good from the day players at all.  It was so bad that kept thinking this has to be intentional... but nope.

Fucking Dabb, couldn't be bothered to actually get the basic information from the pilot correct.  Dean did not take the Woman in White home.  That was Sam.  HUGE fail. 

Dean most definitely should not have been the one to say Jack didn't deserve it.  It's not like it was months since Jack killed Mary.  It's been HOURS maybe a couple of days...at most.

And when did they get their mitts on FBI jackets that never bothered to trot out until now? 

There was just a whole of stupid in this writing.  It wasn't even fun stupid. Just stupid.

[Demian]

57 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

And when did they get their mitts on FBI jackets that never bothered to trot out until now?

Not to call you out, especially, but Sam and Dean have been whipping out fierce FBI drag lewks since the first season of this godforsaken show.

[BabySpinach]

This is an issue I've had with the show for years, but why the FUCK are so many "scary" scenes set in BROAD SPANKING DAYLIGHT?! I so miss the times when there was actual atmosphere and creepiness instead of this bright, flat palette that shows everything and makes all the "scares" look corny and cheap. Genius tip, TPTB, horror usually works best in darkness and very selective light ie. through the strategic withholding of information. The earlier directors/cinematographers/showrunners knew that. And watching the ghosts actually RUNNING after them was completely ridiculous.

UUUGGHHH about Sam's Supernatural Affliction #1052. I'm so over this dead horse. 

Michael's escape from the cage is the only thing that piqued my interest. Definitely not getting my hopes up, though. Still waiting on Billie to explain what the fuck was going on with Dean's death books. 

Demon Jack had an actual personality, so that automatically put him leagues above regular milquetoast Jack. His fanboying of Dean was nice, as was the callback to Alastair. Could we just keep this one and leave the far inferior original in the Empty?

I didn't feel any sympathy for Cas getting the cold shoulder from Dean. He fully absolved and sided with the murderer of Dean's mom and vehemently opposed even locking up this obviously dangerous loose cannon. But too bad Dean seems to have already forgiven Jack.

Pretty underwhelming premiere, though IMO not as bad as the previous season's. 

Edited October 11, 2019 by BabySpinach

[Demian]

Bless you for answering.  I'll attempt to process your answers tomorrow, but given a brief glance over them now, it looks like I'll be all "WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA?" once I actually read through them.

To be honest, I was really hoping this final season would blow the money necessary to use -- or reuse -- all of those awesome '60s, '70s, and '80s butt-rock classics that permeated the first five seasons.  Hopefully, the current production team will imbue this last season with at least a few of them, though tonight's opening song was pathetically anemic.

[catrox14]

29 minutes ago, Demian said:

Not to call you out, especially, but Sam and Dean have been whipping out fierce FBI drag lewks since the first season of this godforsaken show.

Yes, I know. My point was more that they usually show us their gaining said FBI stuff...like in s1 when they got their suits and fake badges as Homeland Security in Phantom Traveler. They showed they have capability to make those things in some way.  To me, these FBI jackets stand out like a sore thumb and I would like an explanation given all their time was taken up with Michael!Dean, Nickifer, Lucifer, Chief Sam of the Royal Hunter Brigade.  

[oliverwendell]

Just popping out of lurkerdom (I too haven’t watched this show in years but am back for the final rodeo) to say: HI DEMIAN. Your reviews of the first five seasons on TWoP were some of the best TV recap/commentary pieces I have ever read. To anyone who hasn’t read them: go find them. They are archived somewhere with all the old TWoP recaps, and they are brilliant.

[Female83]

4 hours ago, Samwise979 said:

I thought it was kind of slow. Checked my phone a couple of times. I hope it picks up and really goes out with a bang. I want to get to the end of the episodes/season and think, that was effing awesome!

I liked regular Jack but I LOVE demon Jack! I hope they don't find a way to bring Jack back and this is who he is for the rest of the season. I don't need him to be a good guy but I'd like it if he wasn't the "big bad" too. Kinda like Rowena or Crowley.... Can't trust them but sometimes they're on the right side of things. 

My memory is fuzzy, was it Amy Acker that originally played the woman in white? 

No. Acker appeared a few episodes later as the daughter of the police chief (I think). 

The season is starting out good. 

[juppschmitz]

So, Sam is being...changed...at a ~subatomic~ level or what? 

Been there. Done that. Yawn.

[Hana Chan]

For those of us who missed the monster of the week episodes, getting them all back at once is.... interesting. Also interesting, that the spooks are now out in the daylight instead of hiding in the darkness. While it may lower the creep value (and the ghosts and monsters are always scarier in the dark), it certainly ups the danger level because there's no hiding from beings that don't have to hide anymore.

Yeah, that bullet in Sam's shoulder isn't going to have some kind of big repercussions. But then, trying to dig it out at the moment when it's not immediately causing Sam much in the way of pain or problems and leaving  Sam incapacitated when they've got such a big problem to handle... yeah, my first aid instincts would be to leave it alone for the moment.

One thing that I do love is how pragmatic the boys are about things. Chuck turns into the ultimate big bad (nothing like a spoiled child with the powers of the universe at his disposal) and their whole world has turned inside out? They just focus on the work they have to do. And that callback to the season one premier? Perfect.

Not going to lie... am a bit weepy that this is the last season premier that I'll ever see for this show. Am going to be a total mess at the last finale.

[mertensia]

It was a bit slow, but set up a bunch of stuff.

Loved Belphegor mentioning Dean's time in Hell. Not the smartest thing he could do, though; now Dean's on triple alert around him.I

Ha! Of course Rowena would demand flattery.

[Katy M]

8 hours ago, ahrtee said:

Except how come some of the ghosts needed new bodies (that is, all the zombies from the graveyard) and some just manifested as they used to be?  (Albeit with different actors 😊  Maybe those were their new bodies!)

They were just possessing bodies like in After School Special and that other episode where a ghost decided to possess people.  I don't know why they did it, but that's what they chose to do.

8 hours ago, SueB said:

 I do not trust Not!Jack.

As well you shouldn't.  If there's one thing we learned from this show it's to not trust demons

8 hours ago, SueB said:

Chuck operates out of time and space — was that a flash forward?

I guess that would explain the title.

[Aeryn13]

The production value of this was really, really cheap. I mean, those ghosts don`t really work if they are running down the street in broad daylight in their silly costumes, grunting and laughing like idiots. 

Guest-actor acting was really, really bad. 

Demon-Jack is Lonnie Meechum from Arrow so Alex kinda played it the same. It has more personality than bouncy-baby Jack but this is the exact same loophole they used for Pellegrino last Season. Like, ZOMG, the actor just NEEDS to be around from the first episode on. 

Dean barely got to do anything, typical Dabb ep. I personally didn`t even like the hell mention because whenever that happens now it`s solely about Dean the torturer. That he himself was tortured hasn`t been mentioned since Season 4. 

Juxtapose this with Sam getting the saintly saviour role to the PiP and it paints a very lopsided picture. 

Of course the wound ties him to God and the mytharc. He is probably seeing Chuck`s endings and who knows what else is coming. 

Dean being all sweet about Jack was way too soon, especially in light about him obviously being angry at Cas. 

The flashbacks to Season 1 didn`t elicit nostalgia in me so much as make me think "wow, the show was actually pretty creepy and charming back then". 

Not getting excited about Michael getting out. This will have nothing to do with Dean so I don`t give a flying crap.

[Bergamot]

Demon Jack -- that is, Belphegor, or "Bel", as I think my closed captioning called him -- was very entertaining. Please can we keep him instead of bringing Jack back?

If the show absolutely must have a "kid" around, maybe the team can "adopt" Bel instead. I know that he's a demon and not really a kid, but then, Jack wasn't really a kid either. And one big bonus would be no more of those excruciatingly dull and repetitive father & son chats between Castiel and Jack. I know that it would make Castiel very sad to lose Jack, but that's okay -- Castiel can just go off somewhere and mope this season. I wouldn't mind.

Of course it would be nice if the show could add some layers to Belphegor's character, maybe some conflict or mystery, so that he would not be just a one-note smart aleck. But surely that would not be beyond the writers' capabilities, right? And it is always fun to watch Dean interacting, in his own stubbornly "Dean" way, with a supernatural being. Scenes where we get that type of Dean / supernatural character interaction have always been some of my favorites. And this was true as well of this episode.

7 hours ago, BabySpinach said:

This is an issue I've had with the show for years, but why the FUCK are so many "scary" scenes set in BROAD SPANKING DAYLIGHT?! I so miss the times when there was actual atmosphere and creepiness instead of this bright, flat palette that shows everything and makes all the "scares" look corny and cheap. Genius tip, TPTB, horror usually works best in darkness and very selective light ie. through the strategic withholding of information. The earlier directors/cinematographers/showrunners knew that. And watching the ghosts actually RUNNING after them was completely ridiculous.

Thank you, BabySpinach, I was thinking the same thing! Except I don't think that these ghosts would have been scary in the dark either. They looked like a bunch of people dressed up in Halloween costumes from Party City and were about as scary as an inferior Goosebumps episode. That whole "clearing the town" segment was so dragged out, and was in my opinion poorly acted and directed as well. And the big climax of the episode, with the ghosts running after them in broad daylight down the street? That was just cringe-worthy.

18 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

The flashbacks to Season 1 didn`t elicit nostalgia in me so much as make me think "wow, the show was actually pretty creepy and charming back then". 

Yes, they are not doing themselves any favors by setting themselves up for those kind of comparisons.

[Katy M]

8 minutes ago, Bergamot said:

If the show absolutely must have a "kid" around, maybe the team can "adopt" Bel instead. I know that he's a demon and not really a kid, but then, Jack wasn't really a kid either. And one big bonus would be no more of those excruciatingly dull and repetitive father & son chats between Castiel and Jack. I know that it would make Castiel very sad to lose Jack, but that's okay -- Castiel can just go off somewhere and mope this season. I wouldn't mind.

I'll sign on for that show.  Cas was getting on my last nerves last night.  It's wrong of Bel to defile Jack's dead corpse (who won't care), but perfectly OK for you to drag Jimmy around for 2 years, taking him away from his wife and young daughter. before you get him killed?  OK, then.

[Bobcatkitten]

I would give it a B - solid start to the season. Definitely improved over season 13 haha.

I loved Demon/Jack. I don't dislike Jack but he is pretty vanilla and the demon was hilarious. Needed it in this episode. 

I love the call backs to earlier seasons but also kind of wish they would only use them if it's the same actors from the original. The Woman in White and Bloody Mary were different and in the bright light just not scary at all.

One great jump-scare was the body coming into the mausoleum unexpectedly. I really thought they were going to tunnel out and that one got me. 

Dean is still mad. While it's been months for fans it's been days for him so I get it. 

The last shot was awesome, of course, with throwing in the season 1 frame. And a good little bro moment with Dean tending to Sam's wound, which I am intrigued to see what happens with.

A few weird things - why did Dean randomly put his gun away in the middle of all this stuff going on? And ghosts don't need to chase. They just appear. I agree with whoever said the guest actors weren't great this time.  

[Katy M]

3 minutes ago, Bobcatkitten said:

A few weird things - why did Dean randomly put his gun away in the middle of all this stuff going on?

I don't know why he randomly did it in the middle of everything, but it wasn't "his" gun which I assume he still had on him.  It was the special Chuck gun that will also shoot you when you shoot something with it.  I think at some point they are going to need to grab it out of the glove compartment, so that may have been as simple as an establishing shot. Or the demon will steal it because Dean thought it was a good idea to "hide" something right in front of a demon.

[Bobcatkitten]

4 minutes ago, Katy M said:

I don't know why he randomly did it in the middle of everything, but it wasn't "his" gun which I assume he still had on him.  It was the special Chuck gun that will also shoot you when you shoot something with it.  I think at some point they are going to need to grab it out of the glove compartment, so that may have been as simple as an establishing shot. Or the demon will steal it because Dean thought it was a good idea to "hide" something right in front of a demon.

Whichever gun it was made no sense to put it away right then - and yes in front of the demon. 

[sarthaz]

Glad they finally gave Calvert something interesting to do. Jack's been sucking the fun out of this show for years. Demon!Jack was fun, even if he has WAY too much pertinent plot information and it's transparently a setup for betrayal.

Everything else about this episode felt like the lazy writing and location scouting under Dabb's regime. It doesn't even feel like they're in America anymore, and there's nothing scary about any of it. The ghosts were literally chasing our heroes down the street in the middle of the day? WTF. And bringing back the ghost from Halt & Catch Fire, easily Top 5 worst episodes in the history of the show? Come. On. Lazy.

What I hated most about this episode was the exposition at the end. The boys should have NO idea what's actually going on, what Chuck's motivation is, what he's doing now, and what their mission should be. But because Dabb is such a shitty writer, he has Sam just make a bunch of assumptions and explain the plot of the season to everyone in hopes that we'll all buy into it like it makes any damn sense. And Dean just stands there nodding, because our once great instinctive genius hunter is now basically Sam's dumb assistant, sitting in the car and buying salt while Sam soldiers through a God wound to save a kid. I can't recall actively disliking a writer this much. Not even when Marti Noxon decided Willow's thirst for power was really just an addiction to drugs was I this frustrated with someone butchering a beloved show. It's one of the great tragedies in television history that this sack of crap will pen our heroes' final days.

Edited October 11, 2019 by sarthaz

[Bali]

17 hours ago, KayCordingly said:

I wonder what tonight's season premiere song is going to be? Since it's the last one, it should be something epic.

I just watched it. I can't tell you what song it was. That's pretty sad.

12 hours ago, SueB said:

First thoughts:

A+ use of Bob Seger.  The singer has been a personal favorite for 40 years.  I love that he’s so tied to the show.  Perfect starting montage.

Demon Ex Machina Not!Jack:  We need someone funny in the car.  I approve.  I have to believe Chuck is still manipulating them.  They needed a plot device and out pops a demon with specific spell work.  The boys better question him hard next week or I’m gonna be upset.  But the meta is confusing.  Are we supposed to recognize that this was Chuck toying with them some more or do they think we’ll just assume this was a lucky break. 

- Rowena via phone: still fabulous.  

- The pacing of the ghost attacks was slow. I get it; ghosts (and clowns) kill.  But Sam is more capable than he was shown to be.

OH! That's right, I remember now.

I prefer Demon Jack. He's funnier. But I don't think normal Angsty Jack is gone for good. Unfortunately. 

Rowena- ROTFL! "Yes, your exquisite ass" More Rowena. 

Sam is terrified of clowns. I think they were going for the fear thing. But Sam would have kicked their asses. But we now have this Sam and this Dean and they just aint the same as they were before Dabb. 

5 hours ago, Hana Chan said:

One thing that I do love is how pragmatic the boys are about things. Chuck turns into the ultimate big bad (nothing like a spoiled child with the powers of the universe at his disposal) and their whole world has turned inside out? They just focus on the work they have to do. And that callback to the season one premier? Perfect.

I hadn't thought of that. It's just like that Star Trek episode. Now I'll be thinking, Come on Dean- what would Captain Kirk do?

When the little girl was staring at the water, I was kind of afraid that the Levithan were back. So I at least am very glad they didn't go there. 

The ghosts were really cheesy. And ridiculous. Demon Jack is a poor substitute for Crowley. But he's so much better that Angsty Jack that I'll take him. They've been trying to fill the smart ass companion position since they blew it with Crowley. It does add to the show. IMO.

[Katy M]

9 minutes ago, sarthaz said:

he has Sam just make a bunch of assumptions and explain the plot of the season to everyone in hopes that we'll all buy into it like it makes any damn sense.

To be fair assumptions have been part of this show from the jump.  Watch seasons 1 and 2 and make a drinking game for every time one of them says "let's say" while trying to figure out a case.

Most of the time they don't have a way of learning something for real until they've worked off an assumption and found out if they're right or not.  For example, Folsom Prison Blues.  They assumed the ghost was Moody, burned his blood and then found out it wasn't.  So, they researched based on the new info.  In Bad Boys they assumed they knew who the ghost was, burned the bones and then were on their way out of town when they found out they were wrong.  Sam and Samuel assumed burning the arachne victims would kill them. 

My point is assuming is canon.

[ahrtee]

20 minutes ago, Katy M said:

To be fair assumptions have been part of this show from the jump.  Watch seasons 1 and 2 and make a drinking game for every time one of them says "let's say" while trying to figure out a case.

Most of the time they don't have a way of learning something for real until they've worked off an assumption and found out if they're right or not.  For example, Folsom Prison Blues.  They assumed the ghost was Moody, burned his blood and then found out it wasn't.  So, they researched based on the new info.  In Bad Boys they assumed they knew who the ghost was, burned the bones and then were on their way out of town when they found out they were wrong.  Sam and Samuel assumed burning the arachne victims would kill them. 

My point is assuming is canon.

But this one carried things to extreme (and without researching).  I mean...you come across an abandoned car, radio still playing and with blood spattered inside and say, "this looks like a Woman in White."  Really?  

[Aeryn13]

1 minute ago, ahrtee said:

But this one carried things to extreme (and without researching).  I mean...you come across an abandoned car, radio still playing and with blood spattered inside and say, "this looks like a Woman in White."  Really?  

OMG, that "blood" spatter on the car? I don't think I've seen fake blood this badly done since the 80s. This thick and syrup-look? Did the prop department lose a bet or somerhing?

[ahrtee]

1 hour ago, Bergamot said:

I know that it would make Castiel very sad to lose Jack, but that's okay -- Castiel can just go off somewhere and mope this season. I wouldn't mind.

That's OK.  We know "our" Jack will be back, and that will make Cas soooo happy....that he'll immediately drop dead and go to the Empty, per his deal.