S02.E09: DC

[preeya]

S02.E09 DC

Summary:  With the shareholders meeting imminent and Waystar Royco in a precarious position after a whistle-blower makes headlines, Logan, Kendall, Gerri and Tom testify before Congress and face tough questions from a determined Gil Eavis. Shiv speaks candidly to Kira, a victim who is set to be a key witness. In Turkey, Roman's business pitch takes a chilling turn.

[ShellsandCheese]

Why do I think that the ending convo with Rhea is going to come back and bite Logan in the ass. Blood sacrifice? Damn. Someone is going down. 

[BlackberryJam]

Blood sacrifice was Logan telling Shiv they were going to have to sacrifice Kendall or Tom, right? I thought Logan was sort of throwing Kendall to the wolves but Ken turned it around and came out on top...which Logan was happy about as well. Like "Ken either take the fall or turn the tables, either way, it's off me," was Logan's attitude.

Also Shiv made me want to throw up in her conversation with Kira. Fuck her. Fuck her all to hell.

Good for Rhea for walking.

I am becoming convinced Logan went on an underage sex cruise or something.

[Hava]

2 minutes ago, BlackberryJam said:

Also Shiv made me want to throw up in her conversation with Kira. Fuck her. Fuck her all to hell.

Same. All of the Roys did. It disgusts me when they have the upper hand, and I've discovered I don't enjoy watching the show when the Roys are winning. I'm still not rooting for any of them. 

[BlackberryJam]

I enjoy it when they are trying to fuck each other over, but when they are doing it to someone else, not nearly as enjoyable.

Also Bill knew they were going to sacrifice him and his diary discussion with Logan was a warning, right? I wonder if he has photos of Logan on a cruise.

Someone is going down next episode...

Also, Roman being held hostage by terrorists. I was getting the feeling that notStewy was in on it and it was a power play with Roman. Or it could just be that this show doesn't let me take anything at face value and I suspect everyone of pulling a play.

[sistermagpie]

2 minutes ago, BlackberryJam said:

I enjoy it when they are trying to fuck each other over, but when they are doing it to someone else, not nearly as enjoyable.

Yes, any scene where they interact with a normal person you can see they're total monsters.

[scrb]

13 minutes ago, BlackberryJam said:

Also Shiv made me want to throw up in her conversation with Kira. Fuck her. Fuck her all to hell.

Jesse Armstrong said it was BS that Logan sent two women to try to sway Kira.

Yes Shiv used her political consultant skills, playing on Kira's fears but also giving her an excuse to not testify because Shiv said she wants to clean up the company and want her help.

As for why she did it, she said it was to save her family's company.  Well to be more precise, their control over the company.

Tom really looked horrible.  How can they not prep him about Mo Lester?  Buy beyond that, it was his stupid plan to get rid of the documents, knowing Greg would have to sign out for those documents.

Speaking of, how about Greg the motherfucking Egg?  Now he's hyperventilating about rejecting Grandpa and $250 million -- Uncle Fun told him to shut the fuck up.  He thinks Logan was going to keep promoting him so that he's in a position to amass more than that?  Only a couple of Roystar execs would get that much outside of Logan's immediate family.

To think just a few weeks ago (in the show's timeline) he would have been content with California Pizza Kitchen pasta.  Now he expects to munch on Ortolan starters between doing lines of coke.

Otherwise the Roy children stepped up to the plate in this episode.  Besides Kendall slowing not Bernie Sanders' roll and Shiv taking one for the team, you had Roman putting it all on the line,  literally.  

He was still snarking despite being a hostage.  Will he shut up now that they've called him out?

[RealReality]

@BlackberryJam -- I think Bill knew when Tom tried to bring him up and was cut off.  

Eavis was stupid to tell shiv anything.  

I also think it's going to be Kendall or Tom for the sacrifice.  Either makes sense, but tom may be easier to sell because he did so poorly.  

But then again, Logan doesn't like his kids stealing his thunder and Kendall doing well in the hearing while Logan floundered could have been more threatening than anything else. 

[SHD]

The wording Rhea used when talking to Logan...I thought we were going to find out she was recording their conversation.

[sistermagpie]

14 minutes ago, RealReality said:

@BlackberryJam -- I think Bill knew when Tom tried to bring him up and was cut off.  

He probably had an inkling that might happen and wanted to be there to make that threat!

Quote

Eavis was stupid to tell shiv anything.  

I also think it's going to be Kendall or Tom for the sacrifice.  Either makes sense, but tom may be easier to sell because he did so poorly.  

But then again, Logan doesn't like his kids stealing his thunder and Kendall doing well in the hearing while Logan floundered could have been more threatening than anything else. 

I didn't get the impression he floundered. His opening remarks were fine, then he intentionally threw it to Kendall. In a situation like this I think Logan would be fine with Kendall being able to really turn things around rather than just being the one to take the blame, especially since the blame is going to ultimately go to Logan anyway.

I mean, there are definitely situations where I'd expect Logan to be threatened by something like this, but in this case I think he'd have his eye on something else.

[RealReality]

1 minute ago, sistermagpie said:

He probably had an inkling that might happen and wanted to be there to make that threat!

I didn't get the impression he floundered. His opening remarks were fine, then he intentionally threw it to Kendall. In a situation like this I think Logan would be fine with Kendall being able to really turn things around rather than just being the one to take the blame, especially since the blame is going to ultimately go to Logan anyway.

I mean, there are definitely situations where I'd expect Logan to be threatened by something like this, but in this case I think he'd have his eye on something else.

There was a point where I felt like Logan was floundering.  Eavis had asked him something and he was kinda hemming and hawing and it looked like he was almost confused.  At that point he pivoted to Kendall as being in charge of entertainment and Kendall took it away.  

But I can see where viewpoints would vary.  

[haje]

It's either Kendall or Tom and I can see either one but I do think ultimately this season is about Shiv's "downfall" (as Season 1 was Kendall's) and ultimately we're going to have a situation where Shiv will have to choose between throwing Tom under the bus or standing by him and I think it's fairly obvious as to which she would choose here. 

And also, I don't know if I can handle another season finale where Kendall's soul gets absolutely crushed. Like, yes they're all monsters but I can't have Logan have another win over his children like this!!!!

[sistermagpie]

3 minutes ago, RealReality said:

There was a point where I felt like Logan was floundering.  Eavis had asked him something and he was kinda hemming and hawing and it looked like he was almost confused.  At that point he pivoted to Kendall as being in charge of entertainment and Kendall took it away.  

Oh yes, I assumed that was the part you were talking about--it did definitely look like a weak moment. But in the end I figured he was always planning to throw it to Kendall and might have even chosen to do it that way. Because he'd have to know he would get a question like that. But I first thought he was floundering too. I wondered if he was going to have a senior moment or something.

[scrb]

It's only season two so I can't imagine any of the major characters will be knocked out.

They could be marginalized as a kook like Conor, who does occasionally throw in some good lines.

On "the rich are despicable" theme, Conor and was it Roman who was telling Greg $5 million is nothing?  Kind of like Axe in Billions trying to gaslight some rival that a $150 million was nothing, couldn't maintain the lifestyle his family was used to.

But it set off Greg realizing that he turned down $250 million!

[showme]

It is probably Tom. That sounds like a prep talk to give Shiv an advance notice.

Kendal did very well at the congress hearing while Tom looked like a criminal with tons of skeleton to hide, I think even Logan can see that.

[tennisgurl]

Blood sacrifice? Well shit, I think that Kendall and Tom should be watching themselves. I think Tom is the easiest target, considering he isnt  one of Logan's kids and he came off like an idiot who is clearly hiding something on television, but it could be Kendall instead. I felt like Logan was throwing him to the wolves in the hearing, and it was just happenstance that Kendall actually handled it well, so maybe he is already looking to get rid of him? 

Shiv was just the worst with the woman with the complaint, for someone who likes to act like she is more socially continuous than the rest of her family, she is just as bad as the rest of them. I mean, its not wrong that it would be tough on this woman, but she was so obviously self serving, it really makes your skin crawl. 

Bill totally knows they want to Kill Bill (heh) and him commenting on having "the diaries" for a possible book was him telling Logan that he isnt going quietly. If they try to screw him, he will screw them right back. Honestly, that could probably be on the Roy family crest. 

Meanwhile, Roman wont let a little thing like a hostage situation keep him from snarking and trying to sell the company. Roman does have a certain kind of charm that works really well in certain situations, I can see why Logan wanted him for this kind of job. 

I wonder if Logan's final "test" for Shiv to see if she can handle the company will be seeing if she stands by Tom if he gets sacrificed or cuts him lose, and I think we all know what her answer will be.

[luckylou]

I wondered who /what the source of the info about the human furniture and the emails to Greg was.  Greg himself?  Is he faking it about turning down Grandpa’s money?  

[Dminches]

8 hours ago, haje said:

It's either Kendall or Tom and I can see either one but I do think ultimately this season is about Shiv's "downfall" (as Season 1 was Kendall's) and ultimately we're going to have a situation where Shiv will have to choose between throwing Tom under the bus or standing by him and I think it's fairly obvious as to which she would choose here. 

And also, I don't know if I can handle another season finale where Kendall's soul gets absolutely crushed. Like, yes they're all monsters but I can't have Logan have another win over his children like this!!!!

Shiv doesn't even technically work for the company so I can't see how this can be her downfall.  She would have to do something wrong in the season finale for her to be scapegoat.  I don't see that happening.

8 hours ago, RealReality said:

There was a point where I felt like Logan was floundering.  Eavis had asked him something and he was kinda hemming and hawing and it looked like he was almost confused.  At that point he pivoted to Kendall as being in charge of entertainment and Kendall took it away.  

But I can see where viewpoints would vary.  

Their strategy was to filibuster as many "witnesses" do since each senator only has a 5 minute time slot.  That's what Logan was doing.

[Eyes High]

What a great episode. Fantastic writing by Jesse Armstrong.

As much as this show is built on the inherent comedy of incompetence, humiliation and failure (see: Kendall's rap), I thought it was nice to see all four Roy siblings doing pretty well for themselves for once: even Connor was assured by the smiling goon from the sinister-sounding Institute for Concerned Americans (or whatever it was) that there were people who supported his vision and had his back. Granted, they were doing pretty well for themselves at doing what Roys do best: selling out their principles and appealing to terrible people.

It was also great seeing Gerri be awesome. Really, she should be the one running the company. Tom enviously calling her a "bulletproof monk" after she smoothly deflected pointed questions about the destroyed documents was amazing.

Roman did extremely well in this episode, which was gratifying to see after one humiliation after another this season (although that's apparently Roman's thing). It was funny that it was buttoned-up, dignified Karl who was a nervous wreck--politely informing Laird and Roman that he was having a panic attack--while Roman was relatively relaxed about the whole thing.

Quote

Meanwhile, Roman wont let a little thing like a hostage situation keep him from snarking and trying to sell the company.

Roman's tougher than he looks.

I assume the blood sacrifice is Tom, but whether or not that actually plays out remains to be seen. If they go private with the Asgarov money, the goodwill of the shareholders won't matter. It may be enough for Tom to realize that Shiv was prepared to sacrifice him, whether or not that ends up happening, for that to be the last straw for him. From a dramatic perspective, though, it's stronger for Shiv to be forced to choose between her marriage and the company than to have a miraculous save from a third party that spares her that choice. Still, this is Shiv we're talking about; I don't think anyone's under any illusions that she would hesitate to throw Tom under the bus to save the company if that's what was required of her...well, anyone except Tom, I guess.

Even though Tom's arc seems to be reaching a natural end point, I really, really hope the writers manage to keep Tom around, since he's such a compelling, interesting character, as awful as he is, and Matthew Macfadyen is so, so good playing him.

It seems like Season 1 focused on Kendall as the heir apparent, Season 2 focused on Shiv as the heir apparent, so maybe Roman saving the Roys from the shareholders' ire by taking the company private will position him as the new heir apparent, setting up Season 3. I doubt it will go any better for him than it did for Kendall and Shiv, of course.

Quote

Bill totally knows they want to Kill Bill (heh) and him commenting on having "the diaries" for a possible book was him telling Logan that he isnt going quietly. If they try to screw him, he will screw them right back. Honestly, that could probably be on the Roy family crest. 

I doubt anyone gets to a senior position in Waystar without having a strong self-preservation instinct. (See also Karl instantly raising his arm when the terrorists asked for the foreign nationals to identify themselves.) Bill warning Logan he intends to fuck him over if they try to pin it all on him under a veneer of folksy charm and bonhomie was excellent.

Edited October 7, 2019 by Eyes High

[teddysmom]

9 hours ago, RealReality said:

But then again, Logan doesn't like his kids stealing his thunder and Kendall doing well in the hearing while Logan floundered could have been more threatening than anything else. 

Except Kendall helped so I don't think Logan will feel anything but gratitude. He stopped that line of questioning and it went to the next member of the Committee, who kissed their ass six ways to Sunday. 

Say what you want about Shiv, but she told the truth. That woman may think she's doing the right thing, but she's the one who will suffer. She can't destroy the Roys, but the media &  Roy Family friendlies will destroy her. 

Edited October 7, 2019 by teddysmom

[RealReality]

10 minutes ago, teddysmom said:

Except Kendall helped so I don't think Logan will feel anything but gratitude. He stopped that line of questioning and it went to the next member of the Committee, who kissed their ass six ways to Sunday. 

Say what you want about Shiv, but she told the truth. That woman may think she's doing the right thing, but she's the one who will suffer. She can't destroy the Roys, but the media &  Roy Family friendlies will destroy her. 

I don't know, I sometimes feel that Logan's love and warmth can turn to paranoia and anger on a dime.  

If it was all strategy than Logan was in on it.  But Kendall looked strong.....and dare I say.......CEO'ish up there.  

For someone like Logan who has no intention of ever leaving or giving up power Kendall publicly looking like the head way waystar - royco may trigger his paranoia.  

Wonder what the status of Ken's relationship is with Naomi?  Maybe she recognized that cringe rap as the cry for help that it was. 

[Athena5217]

9 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

Shiv was just the worst with the woman with the complaint, for someone who likes to act like she is more socially continuous than the rest of her family, she is just as bad as the rest of them. I mean, its not wrong that it would be tough on this woman, but she was so obviously self serving, it really makes your skin crawl. 

I actually like the way Shiv handled that because when the woman asked if she could trust Shiv, Shiv told her no, the only person she could trust was herself. That was honest and good advice. I do think when Shiv was telling the woman she wanted to reform the cruise ship business she meant it. The problem with Shiv is that as soon as Logan disapproves, she lets it go. In general, Shiv has unfocused ambition and that plus her daddy issues are her greatest weaknesses.

[RealReality]

9 hours ago, showme said:

It is probably Tom. That sounds like a prep talk to give Shiv an advance notice.

Kendal did very well at the congress hearing while Tom looked like a criminal with tons of skeleton to hide, I think even Logan can see that.

I only wonder if "looking good" makes Kendall a potential threat and therefore a better blood sacrifice.  

But I agree that superficially Tom looks like the much easier blood sacrifice and was directly in charge of cruises.  And Greg has those documents he stuffed in his pants.  

I also think that the whistleblower said that Kendall tried to clean thing up, but I think he made it sound like tom was more trying to cover things up.  But at the same time, it sounds like tom was fairly new so how much could he have known about what molester was up to?,. Though an argument could be made that once he knew anything he should have thrown him overboard and yes t pin intended. 

[RealReality]

1 minute ago, Athena5217 said:

I actually like the way Shiv handled that because when the woman asked if she could trust Shiv, Shiv told her no, the only person she could trust was herself. That was honest and good advice. I do think when Shiv was telling the woman she wanted to reform the cruise ship business she meant it. The problem with Shiv is that as soon as Logan disapproves, she lets it go. In general, Shiv has unfocused ambition and that plus her daddy issues are her greatest weaknesses.

I didn't get that vibe from shiv, but it would be great if she meant what she said.  Or maybe if they just sold that part of the business off somehow.  

I think shiv told her not to trust her as a way to earn her trust.  Had she outright said "yeah, you can trust me" it would have come off used car salesman sleazy.  

But as someone pointed out, shiv is not even officially working at waystar yet right?  She didn't know Rhea was going to quit when the conversation took place.  And she certainly doesn't know how long Logan will string her along if and when he decides to name her as successor.  I thought Rhea screwing her over was that Logan got to play like shiv was disloyal and therefore he wasn't bound to whatever promise he had made.

I mean, yeah, she could hold everyone's feet to the fire.....in like 5-7 years IF she is named successor and IF Logan does or willingly gives up power.  

[teddysmom]

16 minutes ago, RealReality said:

Wonder what the status of Ken's relationship is with Naomi?  Maybe she recognized that cringe rap as the cry for help that it was. 

Why does he keep having her around? It's so ridiculous.

Here's the niece of the woman who fucked us over, she came to show support. 

What??!! 

I was missing Tabitha, but I guess there was no reason for her to be in this episode. Since she just provides snark on Roman.  I hope they keep her around. I really like her. 

I was shocked to see Rhea fold so easily.   Think you're smarter than Shiv?  Yeah you may have won a battle but you def lost the war. 

[Eyes High]

One bit I loved was when Roman asked for Laird's choices for "Marry Fuck Kill" for the executive choice, Laird's choice for "Kill" was Ray, aka the frat boy douchebag played by Patch Darragh who heartily enjoyed Boar on the Floor. Excellent choice, Laird.

Quote

I was shocked to see Rhea fold so easily.   Think you're smarter than Shiv?  Yeah you may have won a battle but you def lost the war. 

Nan was right that all Rhea cares about is Rhea Jarrell. She didn't balk out of principle, she was just worried that there was more that Logan wasn't telling her about (and that he would never tell her about) that would eventually come out. She made a calculated decision that she didn't want to be mired in abuse scandal after abuse scandal that would damage her (progressive) brand. So from her perspective, walking away rather than going down with the ship was the smart move.

Edited October 7, 2019 by Eyes High

[Malarkey Hour]

Spoiler

https://youtu.be/a7JxBX4fiRk

Morning all! Another great episode last night. Tom's testimony was my favorite part. The point of this episode of Succession, "i think"... is to set the stage for what we're all hoping is an AMAZING season finale. Gonna be tough to top the first season's finale, but I have a feeling twists and turns are coming that we haven't figured out yet. This show is soooo good at planting little seeds and ideas in your head and then coming back to them later only to find out it's not what you thought it was at all. Almost EVERYTHING in the show is done for a reason. Story structure is soooooo good! Again, we need to petition for MORE RAT F***ER SAM. Guy deserves an Emmy

[DoubleUTeeEff]

"You can't retire on 5 million dollars."

Watch me!

1 hour ago, teddysmom said:

Say what you want about Shiv, but she told the truth. That woman may think she's doing the right thing, but she's the one who will suffer. She can't destroy the Roys, but the media &  Roy Family friendlies will destroy her. 

I agree with @RealReality, Shiv told her that she couldn't trust her as a way to seem more trustworthy without actually being more trustworthy. I also think to testify would actually be the right thing to do, not just something she thinks is the right thing to do. I don't blame anyone in that situation if they decided not to testify but to do it is admirable. Also, the Roys definitely thought that her testimony could destroy them. That's why Shiv went to the lengths she did--she was trying to keep the company under her family's control.

Edited October 7, 2019 by DoubleUTeeEff
got name wrong

[Princess Sparkle]

2 hours ago, Eyes High said:

Even though Tom's arc seems to be reaching a natural end point, I really, really hope the writers manage to keep Tom around, since he's such a compelling, interesting character, as awful as he is, and Matthew Macfadyen is so, so good playing him.

I must admit, Tom starting to tear up during the testimony and then his full on crying and hurt when he got back to their situation room did me in. Matthew Macfadyen could've played that as angry, and yet he did it as hurt, and it was so much better that way. 

The Roman part took me by surprise, and even though I was pretty sure Kieran Culkin wasn't going anywhere, I was still on the edge of my seat for a little bit. At first, I thought it was a strong arm negotiation tactic.

I truly don't know what made me laugh more, "You can't make a Tomlette without breaking a few Greggs" or "Go you fucking lovely bastards"

[Eyes High]

4 minutes ago, Princess Sparkle said:

I must admit, Tom starting to tear up during the testimony and then his full on crying and hurt when he got back to their situation room did me in. Matthew Macfadyen could've played that as angry, and yet he did it as hurt, and it was so much better that way. 

He's so great. I really do feel like it could be the end of the line for Tom, and indeed ending up as a patsy to save the Roys would be a natural and logical conclusion for his character, but I would hate to lose the character and the actor.

Quote

The Roman part took me by surprise, and even though I was pretty sure Kieran Culkin wasn't going anywhere, I was still on the edge of my seat for a little bit. At first, I thought it was a strong arm negotiation tactic.

Heh, me too. I thought it was all a bit of theatre to soften up Roman.

Quote

I truly don't know what made me laugh more, "You can't make a Tomlette without breaking a few Greggs" or "Go you fucking lovely bastards"

What's great about the "You can't make a Tomlette without breaking a few Greggs" is that it functions both as a hilarious pun and as a perfect encapsulation of Tom's attitude towards Greg: by "breaking" him with hazing and casual abuse, Tom will turn Greg into something better, aka (in Tom's mind) someone like Tom.

I said in the Roman thread that Roman probably has no idea how to offer genuine-sounding praise and encouragement to the Hearts, since he never received any himself.

[teddysmom]

12 minutes ago, DoubleUTeeEff said:

agree with @RealReality, Shiv told her that she couldn't trust her as a way to seem more trustworthy without actually being more trustworthy. I also think to testify would actually be the right thing to do, not just something she thinks is the right thing to do. I don't blame anyone in that situation if they decided not to testify but to do it is admirable. Also, the Roys definitely thought that her testimony could destroy them. That's why Shiv went to the lengths she did--she was trying to keep the company under her family's control.

Oh testifying would be the right thing, but she wouldn't hurt the Roys. It would be better to go on cable news and do an interview, or call Jane Mayer & Ronan Farrow, and give an anonymous interview. 

Is Shiv's work going to be for naught if Roman's deal goes thru?  

And maybe Shiv will fuck over Logan, just to get revenge. 

[preeya]

17 minutes ago, teddysmom said:

And maybe Shiv will fuck over Logan, just to get revenge. 

IMO, Shiv will fuck over ANYONE to get revenge.

[Pop Tart]

1 hour ago, teddysmom said:

Say what you want about Shiv, but she told the truth. That woman may think she's doing the right thing, but she's the one who will suffer. She can't destroy the Roys, but the media &  Roy Family friendlies will destroy her. 

I agree. While I had a problem with Logan calling on Rhea and Shiv to go talk to the woman,  I thought Shiv did it with about as much honesty as she could - even while doing so for the sake of her family company. She told the woman she couldn't trust her, she told her that she was there for her own self-interest and in the interests of her family's company. She also told her that the people who wanted her to testify had their own self-interest and agendas at heart, not this woman's well-being. Totally true. Everyone involved has an agenda regarding whether she testified or not and Shiv laid that all out and left it to her to decide. Brutal? Yes. Self-serving? Totally. But also not really wrong in terms of the choice she (the victim) would be making.

I doubt there had been one other person who had interacted with the woman who was as honest as Shiv was in that moment. Her supporters would have her to testify for their reasons and agenda, though I'm sure they told her it was for her own moral well-being. 

Again, I'm not saying it's good the woman didn't testify - for her sake or anyone else's. I get philosophically why it's better for the world to have the stories come out. But I also think that every person, every woman should get to decide for herself. And while Shiv's talking with her was self-serving to the nth degree, she didn't lie to her. So the woman made her choice based on all known information, including Shiv's. 

1 hour ago, teddysmom said:

Why does he keep having her around? It's so ridiculous.

Here's the niece of the woman who fucked us over, she came to show support. 

I like Kendall with Naomi - they seem to really get each other. So I'm rooting for them regardless. But what gets me with Logan's dismissal of her is that it seems pretty short-sighted. I get that he's angry and bitter about the Pierces. But if Kendall and Naomi were to get together, their relationship could ultimately lead to the joining of the two families and corporations. Kendall, though he's on the outs with his dad, is still considered to be the Roy scion and Naomi, as described by Rhea is Nan's closest family confidant. 

As regards Rhea - I wasn't 100% sold on her suddenly discovering that Logan lies and is morally challenged. In her much quieter way she has seemed to be the female version of Logan - manipulating the Pierce's to try to make the deal and then doing the same with the Roy family members. It was she who came up with the plan for how to torpedo Shiv and she offered to take care of it with Logan. It is she who has was actively shaping his view of all of his kids so that she would be named CEO. So her sudden horror last night at the lengths Logan would go to? Didn't ring true.

If she is just using her "disgust" as a way to back out of being CEO because the Roy family is in trouble, that would make sense. But I just found her shock at and about Logan to be more naive than we've seen from her.

[clb1016]

1 hour ago, Eyes High said:

One bit I loved was when Roman asked for Laird's choices for "Marry Fuck Kill" for the executive choice, Laird's choice for "Kill" was Ray, aka the frat boy douchebag played by Patch Darragh who heartily enjoyed Boar on the Floor. Excellent choice, Laird.

What about Roman’s response to Laird saying he would marry Gerri?  Was it my imagination that Roman seemed a bit rattled at the idea that someone [else] would find Gerri a desirable partner?  And didn’t Logan say something about Roman wanting “to sleep with your mother”?  I’m probably reading too much into this because we’ve been tantalized with the Roman/Gerri dynamic this season.

As for who becomes the blood sacrifice, I vote for Shiv.  Not because of the character or even the story line; I just think that Culkin and, especially, Strong are much better actors than Snook and I’d like to see more of the two of them and less of her.

[scrb]

2 hours ago, Eyes High said:

One bit I loved was when Roman asked for Laird's choices for "Marry Fuck Kill" for the executive choice, Laird's choice for "Kill" was Ray, aka the frat boy douchebag played by Patch Darragh who heartily enjoyed Boar on the Floor. Excellent choice, Laird.

Nan was right that all Rhea cares about is Rhea Jarrell. She didn't balk out of principle, she was just worried that there was more that Logan wasn't telling her about (and that he would never tell her about) that would eventually come out. She made a calculated decision that she didn't want to be mired in abuse scandal after abuse scandal that would damage her (progressive) brand. So from her perspective, walking away rather than going down with the ship was the smart move.

Laird said he'd marry Gerri and Roman was "Ew, Gerri?"  Yeah you're not fooling anyone Roman.

Actually Rhea recognized that Logan was using her as a more sanitized, respected figure, to give more respectability to Roystar.  She had been CEO of PGM, which was respected and won Pulitzers while ATN had been seen as a toxic outlet.

She said she couldn't see the bottom of the pool and didn't know if Logan really believed in anything.  Yeah she was unwilling to try to gaslight Kira on Logan's behalf.  What happened in Cruises was wrong and Logan knew about it ("things were different then") and she wasn't willing to put up with it or fix it.

Of course the real reason is they weren't going to have Holly Hunter forever and ultimately the show is about which Roy kid will ascend the throne, not some outsider.

Edited October 7, 2019 by scrb

[teddysmom]

29 minutes ago, Pop Tart said:

I like Kendall with Naomi - they seem to really get each other. So I'm rooting for them regardless. But what gets me with Logan's dismissal of her is that it seems pretty short-sighted. I get that he's angry and bitter about the Pierces. But if Kendall and Naomi were to get together, their relationship could ultimately lead to the joining of the two families and corporations. Kendall, though he's on the outs with his dad, is still considered to be the Roy scion and Naomi, as described by Rhea is Nan's closest family confidant. 

I like Naomi, I just don't think it's wise of Kendall to bring her to family stuff, at least at this time.  

11 minutes ago, clb1016 said:

As for who becomes the blood sacrifice, I vote for Shiv.  Not because of the character or even the story line; I just think that Culkin and, especially, Strong are much better actors than Snook and I’d like to see more of the two of them and less of her.

Nah it'll be Tom. Greg has the docs from Thanksgiving.   

Logan fucks with the kids but he would never risk having them go to jail, esp if the foreign money guys fall thru and they have to answer to the stockholders.  That's as much as admitting a member of the family knew and covered it up.

Shiv can always claim she didn't know her new husband would do something so awful. Can you imagine Tom's meltdown? We thought throwing bottles of water at Greg was bad. 
 

[Eyes High]

17 minutes ago, clb1016 said:

As for who becomes the blood sacrifice, I vote for Shiv.  Not because of the character or even the story line; I just think that Culkin and, especially, Strong are much better actors than Snook and I’d like to see more of the two of them and less of her.

Then you're in luck, if I'm right: I think Season 3 will revolve around Roman as heir apparent just as Season 2 revolved around Shiv and Season 1 revolved around Kendall. Roman getting into his father's good graces by securing the Asgarov money seems like the way that that will happen. I don't know what they're going to do about Season 4, though, since Connor seems too ludicrous a character to carry a whole season by himself. 

[BlackberryJam]

Roman not wetting his pants was his biggest accomplishment this episode. Well, that and trying to tell Logan how unqualified he (Roman) is to do this deal. Roman doesn’t even know what the deal is except that he’s supposed to get a cash infusion for the business to go private. He probably doesn’t even understand how a business goes private or public and will likely make a deal that gives control to the investors because he’s that much of an idiot.

Shiv’s ‘truth-telling’ was disgusting. Her “you can’t trust me,” was pure manipulation. Shiv has no plan to clean up the company and doesn’t really give a flying fuck how many women were Mo-Lested or died on the cruises. Shiv’s skill is spin. She spun the testimony as damaging to Kira, and it would be. I seriously can’t suspend my disbelief that Kira hadn’t already considered the implications of testimony. I mean, how long has it been since Anita Hill? Too damn long for any woman who is considering testifying not to have contemplated the consequences. Shiv went there to scare her, and Shiv succeeded. 

Most certainly Not Bernie had his own motivations and was using Kira as well. Really, why didn’t Kira have an attorney? I mean, they were in DC. It’s not like it’s hard to find one, and especially as Kira can likely sue the cruise line and get some payday, not to mention the women’s rights groups that would have stepped in to help out.

Shiv has beautiful hair, but she’s just as horrible as the others. I mean, no more horrible than Kendall, but she gets no positive points from me. What Shiv did was both smart and evil. 

Rhea was smart enough to realize she was being dumped into a pile of shit and there would be no good result for her. Unlike the Roy children, Rhea could, and did, walk away. Good for her. 

So next episode has them all on a yacht..that’s interesting. 

Where is Marcia?

[sistermagpie]

10 hours ago, luckylou said:

I wondered who /what the source of the info about the human furniture and the emails to Greg was.  Greg himself?  Is he faking it about turning down Grandpa’s money?  

He might have talked to random people from the company who were glad to talk about the workplace there. There was already the guy who said he was bullied.

Tom totally should have just owned the human furniture and said it's a joke they do when they make silly bets and if you lose you have to be a footstool. 

Then again, he also should have just said he followed everyone's lead on the Mo vs. Lester name and just assumed they called him that because anybody named Lester would get that nickname at Waystar. That's their kind of humor.

3 hours ago, Athena5217 said:

I actually like the way Shiv handled that because when the woman asked if she could trust Shiv, Shiv told her no, the only person she could trust was herself. That was honest and good advice. I do think when Shiv was telling the woman she wanted to reform the cruise ship business she meant it. The problem with Shiv is that as soon as Logan disapproves, she lets it go. In general, Shiv has unfocused ambition and that plus her daddy issues are her greatest weaknesses.

She and Kendall both showed in this ep that the best way to bullshit is with the truth. Kendall does have genuine rich white guy grievance against the world and Shiv does want to clean up the cruise lines. Doesn't mean she'll do it, but it does annoy her that this stuff goes on and she could tap into that for the moment.

3 hours ago, RealReality said:

I also think that the whistleblower said that Kendall tried to clean thing up, but I think he made it sound like tom was more trying to cover things up.  But at the same time, it sounds like tom was fairly new so how much could he have known about what molester was up to?,. Though an argument could be made that once he knew anything he should have thrown him overboard and yes t pin intended. 

That's what I wonder too--it seems like it'd be so obvious that Tom was a patsy and little else. 

2 hours ago, Eyes High said:

What's great about the "You can't make a Tomlette without breaking a few Greggs" is that it functions both as a hilarious pun and as a perfect encapsulation of Tom's attitude towards Greg: by "breaking" him with hazing and casual abuse, Tom will turn Greg into something better, aka (in Tom's mind) someone like Tom.

And yet ultimately Greg might have that Roy family sense of survival that Tom doesn't. His clueless persona would probably play a lot better on the stand than Tom did, for instance. (Though I still get upset thinking of him deciding to trust his future to Logan to the tune of turning down a quarter of a billion dollars.)

I was annoyed by not-Bernie's line of questioning, btw. It did seem annoying to come at the situation from the angle of how they do everything for profit at their news channel because obviously most news has commercials and it would focusing on his political brand just made it seem like he didn't care about the actual people involved either. There were much better ways to make the obvious connection that the Roys are happy to grind up as many regular people as it takes to make a buck.

[RealReality]

1 hour ago, teddysmom said:

I like Naomi, I just don't think it's wise of Kendall to bring her to family stuff, at least at this time.  

Nah it'll be Tom. Greg has the docs from Thanksgiving.   

Logan fucks with the kids but he would never risk having them go to jail, esp if the foreign money guys fall thru and they have to answer to the stockholders.  That's as much as admitting a member of the family knew and covered it up.

Shiv can always claim she didn't know her new husband would do something so awful. Can you imagine Tom's meltdown? We thought throwing bottles of water at Greg was bad. 
 

Well....can't make a tomlettle without breaking a few Greg's.

And I guess my.question would be what it means to be the blood sacrifice.  Is that person going to jail or are they just publicly humiliated.  

Obstruction, fraud and cover-ups and conspiracy are current criminal acts, but it sounds like most of the really horrible stuff happened a while back and it really was molester and maybe Logan tangentially or Logan turned a blind eye.  

So maybe Tom just gets publicly pilloried....which I'm sure shiv can justify.

9 minutes ago, BlackberryJam said:

Roman not wetting his pants was his biggest accomplishment this episode. Well, that and trying to tell Logan how unqualified he (Roman) is to do this deal. Roman doesn’t even know what the deal is except that he’s supposed to get a cash infusion for the business to go private. He probably doesn’t even understand how a business goes private or public and will likely make a deal that gives control to the investors because he’s that much of an idiot.

Shiv’s ‘truth-telling’ was disgusting. Her “you can’t trust me,” was pure manipulation. Shiv has no plan to clean up the company and doesn’t really give a flying fuck how many women were Mo-Lested or died on the cruises. Shiv’s skill is spin. She spun the testimony as damaging to Kira, and it would be. I seriously can’t suspend my disbelief that Kira hadn’t already considered the implications of testimony. I mean, how long has it been since Anita Hill? Too damn long for any woman who is considering testifying not to have contemplated the consequences. Shiv went there to scare her, and Shiv succeeded. 

Most certainly Not Bernie had his own motivations and was using Kira as well. Really, why didn’t Kira have an attorney? I mean, they were in DC. It’s not like it’s hard to find one, and especially as Kira can likely sue the cruise line and get some payday, not to mention the women’s rights groups that would have stepped in to help out.

Why the hell did notberniesanders tell shiv anything about anything?  

I get that he doesn't want to completely burn a bridge because atn is doing him a solid, but Kira was their "gotcha" moment and he totally fucked it up so unless got all he wanted it seems like a stupid move. 

Agree about shiv, even if one were to assign her the best intentions how in the world is she going to "punish" anyone.  She doesn't work there, she isn't and wasn't in charge of anything.  And that's if one assumes shiv really cares, but I remember that scene at tern Haven or at the conference when shiv gave not a single fuck about what happened to the women in cruises and Kendall was the only one who seemed to mildly care. 

[chick binewski]

2 hours ago, Pop Tart said:

As regards Rhea - I wasn't 100% sold on her suddenly discovering that Logan lies and is morally challenged. In her much quieter way she has seemed to be the female version of Logan - manipulating the Pierce's to try to make the deal and then doing the same with the Roy family members. It was she who came up with the plan for how to torpedo Shiv and she offered to take care of it with Logan. It is she who has was actively shaping his view of all of his kids so that she would be named CEO. So her sudden horror last night at the lengths Logan would go to? Didn't ring true.

If she is just using her "disgust" as a way to back out of being CEO because the Roy family is in trouble, that would make sense. But I just found her shock at and about Logan to be more naive than we've seen from her.

42 minutes ago, BlackberryJam said:

Most certainly Not Bernie had his own motivations and was using Kira as well. Really, why didn’t Kira have an attorney? I mean, they were in DC. It’s not like it’s hard to find one, and especially as Kira can likely sue the cruise line and get some payday, not to mention the women’s rights groups that would have stepped in to help out.

These were the two points I found a bit unbelievable. Hunter was certainly playing "shocked" at Logan's lack of moral code almost as much as the fact he would lie to her. Which just made her look dumb.  But I have found Hunter's  portrayal of Rhea a bit odd so maybe I'm missing something.

And yes, let's boast to Shiv that there's a victim who will testify then do nothing to insulate the person with the most valuable testimony?

This season flew by and I'm really sorry its not longer. My guess for the patsy would be Kendall. I think dad kept him close to continue punishing him.

[teddysmom]

10 minutes ago, chick binewski said:

This season flew by and I'm really sorry its not longer. My guess for the patsy would be Kendall. I think dad kept him close to continue punishing him.

Spoiler

In the trailer for next week, they hint at three different people in different brief clips.  Tom  thinks it's him, Kendall is silent but looks like he's going to cry, and the private money guy tells Logan "we think it should be you". 

Spoilering this in case some of us didn't watch the preview for next week. It doesn't really give anything away, and it could be false clues but wanted to be careful. 

[chick binewski]

7 minutes ago, teddysmom said:

  Reveal spoiler

In the trailer for next week, they hint at three different people in different brief clips.  Tom  thinks it's him, Kendall is silent but looks like he's going to cry, and the private money guy tells Logan "we think it should be you". 

Spoilering this in case some of us didn't watch the preview for next week. It doesn't really give anything away, and it could be false clues but wanted to be careful. 

I'm totally taking the preview as a mislead, but I'm wrong about nearly everything.

[scrb]

You do want to root for Kendall and Naomi -- Kendomi -- but they're two drug addicts.

Probably not the best idea to pair two junkies together.

[scrb]

1 hour ago, chick binewski said:

And yes, let's boast to Shiv that there's a victim who will testify then do nothing to insulate the person with the most valuable testimony?

Actually, I think notBernie and Nate told Shiv there was a witness but not who she was.

Rhea found out through another senator who Kira was.  But you can question that other senator, who was chairwoman of that committee, since Rhea was known to be the future Roystar CEO. 

[Eyes High]

19 minutes ago, scrb said:

You do want to root for Kendall and Naomi -- Kendomi -- but they're two drug addicts.

Probably not the best idea to pair two junkies together.

Yeah, the reason they're so cute and happy together is that they're enabling each other.

Quote

Rhea found out through another senator who Kira was.  But you can question that other senator, who was chairwoman of that committee, since Rhea was known to be the future Roystar CEO. 

I call bullshit on a fiftysomething woman being named "Kira."

Edited October 7, 2019 by Eyes High

[Dminches]

3 hours ago, BlackberryJam said:

Where is Marcia?

She had a doctor’s appointment to get tested for STDs.

[clb1016]

2 hours ago, Eyes High said:

I call bullshit on a fiftysomething woman being named "Kira."

Kyra Sedgwick is 54.

[NurseGiGi]

I'm beginning to wonder if maybe Greg isn't a mole. They seem to have a lot of inside info.

[nb360]

55 minutes ago, NurseGiGi said:

I'm beginning to wonder if maybe Greg isn't a mole. They seem to have a lot of inside info.

I wondered, too, how they got some info. It was not just random info but detailed stuff, such as the hours Gregg and Tom stopped emailing in each other.