All Episodes Talk: Let’s Talk About Dr Phil the Show

[friendperidot]

PsychoKlown, I've read your posts and as a former mental health worker, I agree with a lot. But with Paul Simon, as with most people, do we really know what's going on his life, who he helps or if he's even able to help himself? I think the source where I learned anything about his problems is Carrie Fisher. They were married, she has a great many mental health issues herself and seems to be somewhat succeeding, at least on occasion. I think that he has some substance issues, but that is also filtered through Carrie Fisher and I'm sure her own feelings and thoughts about him come out of her experiences. And he may be done done with Shelly Duvall, I don't know. I know that I am done done with many of my family. I've climbed that hill so many times for nothing, I'm tired and I'm done. And when you are not living with the person, sometimes it's easier to have some compassion and offer help and sometimes it makes you doner. I'm still not going to judge whether he should help or not or whether any of her friends should help.

And my sister seems to be a little manic today, she's sorting through things, and washing dishes. She doesn't clean, she sorts through things until she's exhausted then leaves piles of things she's sorted through. And lately, it's been my damn packed boxes she's sorting through. I do think I got through her to keep her hands off my things, I will sort through them and wash them and put them up when I move them into a place of my own. And I don't know where all the dishes she needs to wash come from, maybe a pile of them in her room, the only dishes in the kitchen that needed washing was a bowl and a skillet, that she had left in a sink full of water since the last time she washed dishes a week ago. I use a dish, a pan, a fork, whatever, wash it and put it back in a box in my room so she won't sort through them and integrate my dishes right into the black holes of her cabinets where I'll never see them again. I know, I have a lot of anger. It will somewhat dissipate when I move out of here. 

[Guest]

9 hours ago, PsychoKlown said:

The Lears, Reiners and Spielbergs often berate "society" on how it overlooks those who are not as fortunate.  May I even go so far to say that Lear himself has said that we have an obligation to prop up those who have fallen.   And I would be the first to applaud him in that respect.  Yes, as a society we should help those who have fallen.

May I just add a little caveat: those families donate a significant amount of their time and fortunes to charities. And it's possible someone in her past did try to step in and help her -- it may have been done under the radar, who knows? But just because no one has publicly helped, doesn't mean someone hasn't privately attempted to. In fairness, before this shit show aired, people may have never known in what conditions she was living. 

I don't disagree with your central assertion though that someone with means could step in and help her at this point and that society has an obligation to help those who are suffering; I just don't know if they are or aren't. And the larger point -- whether she can be forced to take the help at all. From reading here, it seems she's not particularly interested in getting treatment despite her plea to Phil that she needed help.

[Gam2]

This is a terribly sad situation for Shelley. The fact is none of us know who or who hasn't tried to help her, what help she's received locally or from a distance from friends/family/former stars from her films. So all of this speculation is of no use to anyone. This reminds me of all of the "speculation" on the news programs about the latest tragedy-earthquakes, train wrecks, shootings, etc. We do not know. 

[Nanu160]

All other celebrity chatter Aside,  Bottom line, Shelly Duvall is  in dire and immediate need of medication and treatment, next step may be to be  5150'd .         Apropos to nothing       ..Paul Simon? (is married to Edie Brickell).  

[Zahdii]

I really don't understand how Britney Spears father was able to get a conservatorship to force her into treatment and take whatever meds required.  It seems to have worked out well for her.  I know this wouldn't work for everyone, but why doesn't it happen more often?  Shelley Duvall might do well in such a situation, if a reliable person was in charge and the conservatorship was overseen by the courts.

[LisainCali]

Boy, good question about Britney.  I never could quite understand what happened with her, or why.  But Britney has a lot of money, which is necessary due to all the costs of a conservator ship.  I believe that it's complicated and that there are a lot of people involved who get paid in the ongoing process.  

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/08/arts/music/is-britney-spears-ready-to-stand-on-her-own.html_r=0&mtrref=jezebel.com&gwh=31586FEABB949110987C9B9CA31E51E4&gwt=pay

Edited November 21, 2016 by LisainCali

[Zahdii]

I read the article, and I see how a conservatorship over a young person with a lot of money and more earning potential could be a problem.  The person in charge and the court appointed/accepted attorney are making money off of Britney, yet at this point she doesn't seem to object. 

Spoiler

 

May 4, 2016

LAS VEGAS — The disturbing images seem so distant now: the pop-star-turned-cautionary tabloid tale — head shorn, face twisted, umbrella gripped like a police baton as she bashed a paparazzi S.U.V. window. More than eight years after her meltdown, Britney Spears, at 34, appears to be thriving.

In September, she announced a two-year, $35 million deal to extend her residency at Planet Hollywood Resort & Casino here. Forbes named her the fifth-highest-earning female musician of 2015, ahead of powerhouses like Rihanna and Nicki Minaj. And she’s been hard at work on her ninth studio album, expected this year.

With her television guest spots and a wildly popular, often eccentric Instagram feed featuring her toned abs and adorable sons, Ms. Spears looks like that rare celebrity who has vanquished deep travails to snatch a second chance.

“I’m in a real good place in my life,” Ms. Spears told People magazine last year, in an interview about her personal life. “I’m the happiest I’ve ever been.”

Ms. Spears’s team presents her onstage as fully in control, and backstage, as the mastermind of her show, an artist in top form. But that view seems at odds with the conclusions routinely drawn about her at probate court in Los Angeles, where an undisclosed mental illness and substance abuse led her family to take action in 2008.

Since then, Ms. Spears’s life has been controlled by a court-approved conservatorship, known in other states as a guardianship, designed for people who cannot take care of themselves.

According to the arrangement, which is typically used to protect the old, the mentally disabled or the extremely ill, Ms. Spears cannot make key decisions, personal or financial, without the approval of her conservators: her father, Jamie Spears, and a lawyer, Andrew M. Wallet. Her most mundane purchases, from a drink at Starbucks to a song on iTunes, are tracked in court documents as part of the plan to safeguard the great fortune she has earned but does not ultimately control.

While the conservators are widely credited with rescuing Ms. Spears’s career — and her life — her apparent stability and success could belie the need for continuing restrictions.

There are recent signs, in fact, that the conservators are now acknowledging the great progress she has made. After successfully fighting to keep her from testifying in at least three prior lawsuits — (a probate judge had previously agreed that doing so could cause her “irreparable harm”) — Ms. Spears’s conservators allowed her to testify on Monday in a case filed against her by a former self-described manager. They agreed that “giving such testimony is not likely to cause harm to her,” according to court papers.

Could this be the start of a major unfastening of the strictures she lives under?

Neither the conservators nor her managers or lawyers will discuss her status, and Ms. Spears did not respond to multiple requests seeking an interview.

While it is not possible to get an accurate sense of someone’s mental state from afar, Ms. Spears’s friends and former associates said in interviews that, for her, the conservatorship has become an accepted fact of life — not a cage but a protective bubble that allows her to worry about her true passions: music and her children.

“If anyone knew the real Britney, they would know that she would rather be remembered for being the great mother she is rather than the artist she is,” said David Lucado, a former boyfriend whose relationship with Ms. Spears foundered in 2014 amid charges of infidelity that Mr. Lucado denies. “And if anyone could see her interactions with her kids, they would know that there is no need for a conservatorship over Britney’s personal life.”

Since the conservatorship began, some restrictions have been eased. More far-reaching rollbacks were discussed several years ago but never occurred, according to a person who has been involved in Ms. Spears’s care who spoke on the condition of anonymity.

Ultimately some of the people who would help to decide whether to end it are the conservators and doctors who now help oversee it, many of whom receive fees from Ms. Spears’s estate for their work on her behalf.

Ms. Spears’s status and progress are measured by a court investigator for her case, who is assigned to file reports on her progress once every other year. (Those under conservatorship are not required to regularly appear in front of a judge after their conservators are appointed.)

And should Ms. Spears ask to be released, her cause would probably be led by the man the court appointed to be her chief advocate, a lawyer, Samuel D. Ingham III. Mr. Ingham’s role is, among other things, to ensure that the conservators do not loot her assets, abuse their power or inappropriately restrict her freedom.

There has been some debate in California over whether court-appointed lawyers do enough to advocate the rights of those under conservatorship. Just last year, the state’s Senate Committee on Judiciary noted in a report: “In theory the court-appointed counsel should be arguing on the proposed conservatee’s behalf for a less-restrictive alternative to conservatorship whenever possible.”

Mr. Ingham has been awarded more than $2 million in fees for his work on Ms. Spears’s behalf since 2008. This is in addition to the $6.9 million paid from the estate to the conservators and other lawyers who have helped manage Ms. Spears’s affairs under the current arrangement. Ms. Spears has never publicly questioned any of these payments, but critics of the process have.

“As long as she is bringing in so much money and as long as the lawyers and conservators are getting paid, there is little incentive to end it,” said Elaine Renoire, president of the National Association to Stop Guardian Abuse, an advocacy group. “Usually, the conservatorship just keeps going unless the conservatee makes a fuss or the family does.”

No one questioned whether Ms. Spears needed help in early 2008; on Jan. 30, her psychiatrist had called for assistance, and when the ambulance left the singer’s Los Angeles home, it was led by a robust entourage of police vehicles.

For days, Ms. Spears had been behaving bizarrely, speaking in a British accent and driving at breakneck speeds. Now she was strapped to a gurney en route to U.C.L.A. Medical Center. Helicopters buzzed overhead. It was the second time in less than a month that Ms. Spears had been taken to a hospital by ambulance for an emergency psychiatric evaluation.

Anyone watching that day would not have recognized Ms. Spears as the musical phenomenon who, a decade earlier, wide-eyed and 17, had posed in hot pants and bra on the cover of Rolling Stone magazine. With hits including “…Baby One More Time” she dominated the charts, and her first four albums sold a combined 30 million copies.

But like child stars before her, Ms. Spears encountered the pressures created by sudden fame and wealth. And a rocky personal life did not help. In 2002, her relationship with Justin Timberlake ended. In January 2004, she married a childhood friend from Louisiana in Las Vegas — a union that lasted 55 hours.

Nine months later, she married again, this time to Kevin Federline, a local backup dancer. Two years later, in November 2006, after the birth of their second son, she filed for divorce.

Drug and alcohol issues fueled her decline. In 2007, Ms. Spears twice entered treatment but each time cut her stay short. The substance abuse would factor in her battle to retain custody of her children. The idea of losing contact with them tormented her, associates said. After being told she had lost custody of them in October 2007, she spent a night sleeping in a parking lot, according to court papers. (She has since worked out a custody arrangement with Mr. Federline.)

“It clearly wasn’t working with her in control of the ship,” said Peter Katsis, who was part of her management team in 2007. “It was overwhelming for her when she came of age.”

Just what kind of mental condition afflicts Ms. Spears has never been publicly disclosed. But, whatever the ailment, by 2008 it seemed to have full possession of her. Although divorced, Ms. Spears’s worried parents decided their daughter was in crisis.

Her father, a former welder, oil worker, cook and a recovering alcoholic, had subjected his family to years of “verbal abuse, abandonment” and “erratic behavior” as a result of his heavy drinking, Britney’s mother, Lynne Spears, wrote in her 2008 book, “Through the Storm: A Real Story of Fame and Family in a Tabloid World.”

But her parents rebuilt some kind of relationship after Mr. Spears stopped drinking, and they sought to intervene.

After days of fasting and praying, Mrs. Spears said, Mr. Spears asked the court to establish a temporary conservatorship for his daughter that would give him broad control over her treatment, visitors, security and daily life. On Feb. 1, 2008, while Ms. Spears was still in the hospital, a judge, Reva G. Goetz, granted his wish.

“I shuddered to think,” Mrs. Spears wrote in her book, describing her worries about those influencing Britney at the time, “what depths of desperation we would have to plumb to regain charge of our child.”

At the outset, Ms. Spears thought of challenging the arrangement, according to Adam Streisand, one of two lawyers whom she spoke to at the time. Mr. Streisand said Ms. Spears told him she was not comfortable with her father as conservator of her finances.

“It was clear to me that she seemed a bit agitated,” Mr. Streisand said. “But my sense was that she did have the capacity to pick a lawyer and that she could make a rational decision.”

The judge, though, citing a recent medical evaluation, said the singer was not capable of hiring her own counsel. Mr. Streisand said he respected the doctor’s opinion and went away.

“Britney wanted to oppose the conservatorship,” he said, “but she was also extremely worried about her kids and seemed to understand that the best thing to do to see her kids was to accept it.”

By the end of 2008, the conservatorship had been made permanent. By March 2009, Ms. Spears was back on tour.

Initially, though, she seemed frustrated by the restrictions.

“I think it’s too in control,” she said during a 2008 interview with MTV. “If I wasn’t under the restraints I’m under, I’d feel so liberated.”

She continued, “There’s no excitement, there’s no passion.” And then: “Even when you go to jail, you know there’s the time when you’re going to get out. But in this situation, it’s never-ending.”

Since then, Ms. Spears has said little publicly about this arrangement.

California’s conservatorship system typically protects the old and infirm. Britney Spears is not its usual client.

The conservatorship system in California, troubled for decades, has undergone reforms in recent years that were designed to further protect the old and infirm people who are its typical clients.

Ms. Spears hardly fits that bill, but this system operates for her the same way as it does for others.

Probate judges in California can appoint two kinds of conservators: ones responsible for a person’s physical and mental health, and others who are put in charge of the individual’s finances.

Ms. Spears has both.

Her father, 63, is responsible for her physical well-being — making sure she takes her medicine, for example — and manages her estate. He shares the financial oversight with Mr. Wallet, who specializes in conservatorships and probate law.

Mr. Spears takes in about $130,000 a year as a conservator and is also reimbursed for the rent on an office he uses. His bills are reviewed and approved by the judge. He has sought only modest increases over the years, though he also requested 1.5 percent of gross revenues from the performances and merchandising tied to Ms. Spears’s Las Vegas show. The court, Ms. Spears and her court-appointed lawyer signed off on it.

For a time, during 2012, Jason Trawick, then her boyfriend, also served as co-conservator for her personal well-being.

As conservator, according to his court filings, Mr. Spears’s work has included “overseeing and coordinating Britney’s [redacted], business, costuming, personal, household stuff, and legal matters (touching upon entertainment, music, other business opportunities, family law issues, the litigation, trial and/or resolution of other disputes, and ongoing litigation and conservatorship matters).”

He negotiates business opportunities, such as her 2012 stint as a judge on “The X Factor,” as well as interviews and sponsorships, even the maintenance of vehicles and the custody arrangement for her children.

Mr. Spears and his lawyers have also aggressively kept at bay anyone they consider a threat to Ms. Spears’s stability, including a former business manager, a former boyfriend and a lawyer who once sought to intervene in her case, all of whom were served with restraining orders.

In 2009, after a Spears fan site, BreatheHeavy.com, started a “Free Britney” campaign critical of the conservatorship, its owner, Jordan Miller, said he received an irate call from Mr. Spears, who threatened to have the website taken down.

Speaking today, Mr. Miller says he can understand the lengths her family took.

“It was a really volatile situation, and they were trying to protect her,” he said.

The conservators’ work is monitored by Mr. Ingham, Ms. Spears’s veteran court-appointed lawyer.

Though the court’s typical maximum hourly fee is $250, Judge Goetz awarded Mr. Ingham as much as $475 an hour to represent Ms. Spears, citing an exception in court rules that allows higher fees “in cases involving unusual problems requiring extraordinary expertise.”

Mr. Ingham, who describes himself as a lawyer with expertise in high-profile conservatorship cases, told the court his typical hourly fee is $595.

For a time in 2014, Mr. Ingham’s clients included both Ms. Spears and Casey Kasem, the radio personality, then 82, who was also in a conservatorship until his death that year; his wife was challenging the size of the lawyer’s legal bills. Mr. Ingham said the case was particularly complicated, but Mrs. Kasem’s lawyer at one point accused Mr. Ingham of padding his bills, a charge the judge dismissed.

Mr. Ingham declined to comment. Ms. Spears is not known to have ever questioned any of Mr. Ingham’s fees.

The business of being Britney Spears is booming. And the pop star can seek a change in her conservatorship status — if she chooses to make a move.

The rules for  meeting Britney are tight. No selfies. No autographs. No invading her personal space.

Each night before Ms. Spears appears in her “Piece of Me” show at Planet Hollywood’s Axis Theater here, she poses for photos with fans backstage, maintaining her brand at a time when her public appearances and interviews are rare and tightly controlled. (Interviewers who are approved seldom mention the conservatorship.) The meet-and-greet packages start at $1,500 and include a backstage tour led by a longtime Spears employee.

“Britney is very shy,” Felicia Culotta, the V.I.P. coordinator, said on one night last year. “I know y’all find that very hard to believe — she goes out on that stage, and she is a powerhouse. But she is extremely shy.”

“Britney plays off energy,” Ms. Culotta added. “If you go in scared of her, she is going to be scared of you. So don’t be scared of her. She’s very normal.”

The routine and consistency of her Las Vegas residency — typically three shows a week for six weeks followed by six weeks off — are a good fit for a mother of two looking to avoid the grind of a tour.

During her 90 minutes onstage, Ms. Spears recycles two dozen hits into an act that features backup dancers, pyrotechnics and showers of confetti. She changes costumes repeatedly. At one point, she jumps in a harness from a 31-foot-tall tree. During each performance, a man or woman picked from the audience is strapped into a leather bondage harness and forced to creep across the stage on all fours.

On this night, Ms. Spears, in a bustier, held the leash on a man. “Your ass is out of this world!” she screamed.

To be sure, the show does not showcase the Britney of old: Once a fluid, natural dancer, Ms. Spears can appear stiff, even robotic, today, relying on flailing arms and flashy sets. Her vocals are largely prerecorded, and the lip-syncing can lapse. She seems to be doing a job, but a good job, and there is no arguing that the show is doing well: It often fills the Axis, the largest theater on the Strip.

Ms. Spears splits her time between Las Vegas and Los Angeles, where her sons are in school, often taking the one-hour flight back after a weekday performance.

She and her children are spotted around town in Las Vegas — by the Planet Hollywood pool or at the Sonic Drive-In near the Strip. (The fast food outlet was the hub of Kentwood, La., the small town where Ms. Spears grew up.)

In addition to the residency, Ms. Spears’s next album, her first since 2013, is expected this summer. For months, she has teased her new music — a single, “Make Me (Oooh),” is due in May — and logged studio time with hot songwriters. Online, she has promoted herself in photos as a sexy pop star back in fighting shape.

“Honestly, I’m just particular with this record,” she told V, the magazine. “It’s my baby, and so I really want it done right.”

Music is only one part of the business of being Britney Spears these days. More than a dozen interconnected businesses, including profitable lines of lingerie and perfume, are overseen by the conservators.

When a company, Brand Sense Partners, sued Ms. Spears in 2011, in a dispute over a licensing agreement for one of her fragrances, its lawyer at the time, Geoffrey A. Neri, argued that the singer had to be capable of testifying. He pointed out in court papers that she takes care of her children, makes numerous public appearances and was then on a 79-date tour across much of the world.

“The notion that Britney Spears is mentally or emotionally unfit to testify under oath is a sham,” Mr. Neri wrote.

But in that case and two others, Judge Goetz ruled the singer too fragile, mentally, to testify. The judge, now retired, declined an interview request; the case has since been transferred to a new judge.

On Monday, after years of maintaining that the singer was too vulnerable to be questioned, her conservators consented to a deposition by Ms. Spears in a lawsuit filed against her and her father by Sam Lutfi, an associate from the time of her breakdown. (He claims Ms. Spears owes him money, asserting she made an oral agreement in 2007 to have him serve as her manager and that her father assaulted him.)

Despite an attempt by the conservators to separate Ms. Spears and Mr. Lutfi during her testimony — his “physical presence in the same conference room as Ms. Spears poses serious risks” to her well-being, they argued in court filings — both parties were present for her deposition, which lasted about four hours.

Ms. Spears, in a magenta blazer and pearls, testified without incident in Mr. Lutfi’s presence, even snacking on a cookie during a down moment.

Soon after, she was back to posting on Instagram, including an image that read, “All energy is contagious.” Hundreds of supportive comments flooded in from fans seemingly well aware of the latest legal twist in her life.

“You have gone through hell and back again but you have persevered every time,” one wrote. “You got this.”

 

[glowlights]

7 hours ago, Zahdii said:

I really don't understand how Britney Spears father was able to get a conservatorship to force her into treatment and take whatever meds required.  It seems to have worked out well for her.  I know this wouldn't work for everyone, but why doesn't it happen more often?  Shelley Duvall might do well in such a situation, if a reliable person was in charge and the conservatorship was overseen by the courts.

I think Britney was placed on a 5150 hold (which is when you are sent to a psych ward for a mandatory minimum of 72 hours for your own safety). Once that happened her father was able to step in. There would have been documented evidence and psych evaluations. It doesn't sound like there has been any such action in Shelley's life so far. You need real evidence of incompetence before you can put someone under conservatorship.

[bethster2000]

friendperidot, I am a bipolar adult who just ached for you as I read your post.  I can't make this more clear to you: your self-care for your depression MUST come first.  I don't understand my fellow bipolars who don't want to medicate.  Medication makes things a bit more bearable.  Bipolar disorder is just so much work.  Some of us, too many of us, just don't have it in us to do that work.  This is what I suspect with your sister.  I must say that I completely understand her reluctance to have a mammogram.  Too scary about what they might find, and my attitude is, if I am given one more damn thing to do deal with...  Not excusing her, just telling you that I can relate.

I watched Shelley Duvall in Popeye this afternoon.  She was an absolutely perfect Olive Oyl.

[amacmom]

Hugs to @bethster2000 and @friendperidot. We're dealing with a relative very similar to friendperidot's sister. Psychiatrist, psychologist, support groups all in line. Meds (maybe) being taken. Still so many ups and downs and we're at a loss of how else to help. He lives with my nonagenarian MIL and it stresses her greatly. Money is not an issue, but we're at a loss on where else to go or what else can help.

I found the Shelley Duvall episode to be exploitive and sad. 

[patty1h]

I'm at the point where I think people should stop trying to talk sense to Todd the alcoholic.  The man is totally addicted and doesn't seem to give a damn - he says on camera that he wants to die.  I'm sure his family wants to grab at any straw to help him, but all I see is dead man walking.  Dr Phil will spew some crap to a man whose brain is pickled by vodka and destroyed by seizures and think he's gotten through to Todd.  Nope. 

[friendperidot]

patty1h, having spent years in Al-Anon, living with a drunk husband, some drunks never do find a way out, and death is what happens, some find a way, good for them, it's wonderful. My ex-husband never hit a low enough bottom, lost jobs, lost marriage, 2 DUIs during the last year of our marriage, nothing, he died of a stroke at 43 years old. It's sad, it made me angry during his memorial service. I had an AA friend on one side of me holding me down and another very good friend on the other. My AA friend was my mentor, not really an official sponsor since she was not in Al-Anon, and I am so very grateful to have had her in my life. She asked me one time if I had done everything I could do to help my husband, I gave it a lot of thought and answered, "no". But about a year later, I asked myself that question and the answer was "yes", so I started looking for ways out, he finally gave me the out I needed and I saw a divorce attorney, signed and filed the papers and he was served - in less than a week. The divorce took a couple more months. I think where there's life, there has to be hope for someone. I have hope that my sister will find her way, but have I done all I can do? I think so, it's not a firm "yes", yet. So don't count Todd and him getting help out, have hope that where's there's life, there's hope. 

And, an old joke heard around many AA and Al-Anon groups: what is the difference between a drunk and an alcoholic? A drunk doesn't have to attend all those damn meetings.

Another personal part of my Al-Anon story, the first step of 12 step groups is "We admitted we were powerless over alcohol - that our lives had become unmanageable." The very first meeting I attended, I knew I was powerless over alcohol, but it took me a year to even hear that my life had become unmanageable. And you have to hear, understand and feel the entire first step before you can really accept it. Will Todd make it, I hope so, but I don't know but I'm not giving up.

[Arynm]

On 11/20/2016 at 0:28 AM, Jaded said:

Stanley Kubrick died in 1999.

well that explains a lot. Thanks. I thought he was the one up in arms about the show, but I must have been mistaken

[AZChristian]

Watched the first half of the two-parter with the idiot doctor who is so blind he refuses to see.  He is being SCAMMED.  

And, for the first time, I noticed what so many have pointed out.  Dr. Phil appears to have serious neck issues and is, indeed, somewhat stooped.

[ClareWalks]

Yeah, this scam victim (or "victim") is aggressively defensive about it, too. He kept scowling "I KNOW IT SOUNDS LIKE A SCAM," even when Dr. Phil hadn't used the word scam at all yet. And he kept saying "you don't know the whole story, I'm trying to tell you all the facts so you'll get it," but then he would say "I don't know" in response to everything. He couldn't even explain what he was sending the money for. "Customs! Customs is all over!" Just goes to show you don't always need intelligence to become a doctor.

[AZChristian]

30 minutes ago, ClareWalks said:

Yeah, this scam victim (or "victim") is aggressively defensive about it, too. He kept scowling "I KNOW IT SOUNDS LIKE A SCAM," even when Dr. Phil hadn't used the word scam at all yet. And he kept saying "you don't know the whole story, I'm trying to tell you all the facts so you'll get it," but then he would say "I don't know" in response to everything. He couldn't even explain what he was sending the money for. "Customs! Customs is all over!" Just goes to show you don't always need intelligence to become a doctor.

I've always said, "You can buy an education, but you can't buy intelligence or common sense."

[patty1h]

I sat through the 2nd part of the catfished doctor and the custom scam because I was suckered by the preview - I actually thought that Phil had gotten his hands on the mystery boxes.  After he wheels them out, he says they're just for show, so Dr. Sucker could get used to the idea that there was no treasure coming.   I could tell that the scammed doctor was talking out of his ass - he was so still believing his payday was coming even after all the facts Phil listed.  It was not a surprise to find out that after the show ended that he'd sent $500 for another custom fee.  Is this guy so pathetic that he still dreams of riches and a young blond after all the evidence to the contrary?  That is sad.

To make matters worse, the last 15 minutes are Phil extolling the greatness of a new beauty product that will revolutionize skin care... then, Robin the botox nightmare, comes on stage shilling her craptastic beauty products.  Will those two never have enough money or hubris?  

Somehow, I got addicted to this trash.  I can only blame myself for watching, and yes, I will be watching tomorrow (Todd from Survivor).  

Edited November 23, 2016 by patty1h

[Christina]

I haven't watched Dr. Phil in a while, other than about ten minutes of the second part of the show where the girl had been sexually abused by her parents airing last week, and that was because it was showing in the waiting room of my psychotherapist's office. I was aghast at the show and pointed it out to the medical assistant who took me back to the doctor, because it didn't seem to be a show that everyone could deal with, even though it was actually a pain management clinic with M.D.s along with Ph.Ds, not just counseling. I've never suffered that type of abuse and wanted to cry and murder the parents at the same time. The dad was trying to explain how he justified it to himself by thinking that it wasn't really hurting her. I kind of wanted to hear that bit, because it seems that most child abusers justify it to themselves somehow, but the daughter and Dr. Phil kept interrupting because they, understandably, didn't want to hear it. 

Back when Britney's dad got conservatorship, it seems like Britney consented to the extent that she could consent because she had lost custody of her kids and didn't even have visitation. She thought it would help her get to see her kids. She continued to not try to appeal it and consented to the continuation because of the pending civil lawsuits that were stayed (stopped) while she was not competent to testify. There was a big uproar with a lot of discussion regarding the legalities, and that was what I read way back then, so I could be remembering wrong.

Amanda Byrne's parents tried unsuccessfully to get conservatorship of her, and she was definitely a danger to herself. I don't know the status of that now, but her parents were turned down after a 5150 hold where a psychiatrist ruled that she was possibly schizophrenic, but needed to be off of the drugs she was on to make that diagnosis. She went to rehab and left, probably before she could be diagnosed with a mental illness. My heart absolutely broke for her parents. It would be awful to see your child in need of medical attention that exists but can't be forced to take and was so lost in their mental illness that they didn't know they needed help and viewed you as an enemy. I think in her case, one of her siblings was able to step in because she didn't view him or her as an enemy. She was a Nickelodeon star when my son was young, and had a lot of talent. I haven't kept up with her story, but hope she has received treatment for whatever it is that ails her.

Since I didn't watch the Shelley Duvall episode I don't know any facts, but wonder if she was not deemed a danger to herself and therefore, couldn't be forced into treatment. As an adult, her family may not have had a lot of legal options to help her, and turned to Dr. Phil in hopes he could help. Dr. Phil could have tried to help without airing the show, too, just made her think he was going to air it if that was the draw to get her there.

A distant relative was helped by Oprah's show when her family wrote in for help. Oprah had a foundation to provide aid to the people who appeared on her show, and that foundation provided my cousin with home repairs and an electronic wheelchair after she was diagnosed with a brain tumor that caused physical and mental issues. Her family thought she was making up some of the issues as an excuse for her some of her behaviors and treatment of others, and I think a doctor agreed. The Oprah Winfrey Show saw a family in need and offered assistance to them, but did not film a show with them. They then turned to the Sally Jesse Raphael Show, who turned them down because they learned Oprah had offered assistance, and the family just really seemed to want her to admit she was exaggerating. Once she was able to get around her home, in and out of the bathroom, and do her own grocery shopping, etc., her family wasn't held hostage to her demands any longer, and that seemed to be the biggest factor in making her compliant with her medical treatment, which was what Oprah's people told them would happen.

I realize that probably wouldn't be helpful when the person is too mentally ill to realize their family is trying to help, as opposed to someone who was willfully refusing treatment because they enjoyed being waited on hand and foot, so really, just a long diatribe about nothing.

[b2H]

As soon as they start shilling products on this show, the channel gets changed.  They have no business in that business.  She is not a dermatologist.  Neither is he.  I don't see the obsession with being something one isn't.

[poeticlicensed]

2 episodes for catfished grandpa doctor? Oh please, I shut it off halfway through episode 1. 

I didn't watch Shelley Duvall  because I find it infuriating that Dr. Shill presumes that he can talk sense into and reason with people with chemical imbalances. But I did read that  The Actors Fund (not sure what that is) is reaching out to her to help. 

Shill is really scraping the bottom of the barrel when the best interview all week was with Megyn Kelly and I hate all things Fox News. 

[nlkm9]

21 hours ago, patty1h said:

 

To make matters worse, the last 15 minutes are Phil extolling the greatness of a new beauty product that will revolutionize skin care... then, Robin the botox nightmare, comes on stage shilling her craptastic beauty products.  Will those two never have enough money or hubris?  

Somehow, I got addicted to this trash.  I can only blame myself for watching, and yes, I will be watching tomorrow (Todd from Survivor).  

Yep, Robins face actually frightens me now--her eyes are all jacked up, I want to tell her, you are in your 60's--its not a crime to have a wrinkle here or there. almost as scary as Judge jeanine pirro, someone else who ruined her face and eyes with too tight a pull, where the eyes look like my boston terriers!!

[ClareWalks]

Robin shilling face cream is a damn joke. We can all tell she doesn't look like that by "using face cream."

Survivor Todd makes me sad. He is so funny and charming when he is sober. I can't help but root for him to make it.

[patty1h]

Maybe I don't have much empathy because I've never had to deal with an addict, but Todd gets no sympathy from me.  I think he got spoiled by being rescued by Dr Phil in the past, so now he thinks has a "free pass" to really go off the deep end because he will be able to call them whenever things get really dire.   Other than seizures, are there any consequences for his excessive drinking?  I don't see any -- I watched friends and hospital staff catering to him, whispering, rubbing his back, letting him sleep.   Shit, I'd be yelling.

Does he have any Survivor money left? If no, who is funding his vodka purchases? If it's mommy and daddy, they gotta realize it has to stop. His mother even said she's got cancer(?) and she's putting Todd's problem before her own health.  I hope she takes better care of herself.  

[friendperidot]

I did see part of the Todd episode today, I do and don't have empathy. I've been to enough Al-Anon meetings (and I'm only outing myself, no one else, my hope is by telling my story it can help someone else, that's how I got to Al-Anon), I've heard a lot of stories around the table. It's sometimes easy to sit in judgment if you are not living with it and it's extremely easy to sit in judgment when you are living in the situation. My sister went out today and came home high, drugs other than alcohol or alcohol, I haven't a clue, but I am so angry. Yesterday a friend dropped by and she offered to take him to get drunk when she gets her check, then she made a joke that she can't take me to get drunk and I am no fun. It pissed me off, it always pisses me off when addicts act & talk like they are so cool and everyone else is square. It's probably just an act to show off and to pass themselves as special.

There was a second person with a past with Dr. Phil on today's episode, I wasn't paying a lot of attention, so I don't remember her name. But in her segment, Dr. Phil said something that resonated with me, learned helplessness. I've heard the term before, I understand what it means, but had forgotten it. That so describes my sister. I wish I knew of a way to get her out of it before she drags me down to that level too. I am not helpless, I am not hopeless and I must keep fighting to find a way out of this mess.

I don't intend to go on Phil or any other talk show, but if my story can help someone see and find a way out of their own, that's enough. Christina, I'm glad the Oprah show was able to help your relative and that it also helped her family see things a little better. Sometimes, we're just too close and we're stuck with our own anger and prejudices. 

[Gam2]

I too watched that show where Robin was walking through her "office" space. If she said "I" once, she said it 500 times. Of course, there's no one else involved with the sham stuff. She couldn't say "we"?! Just one time?She looks like a damn freak and it's not from her miracle cream. No thanks, Robin. And Dr. Shrill promoting this crap? How much money do they actually need? Or is it just that she's so jealous of his fame and son Jay's fame that she has to be famous for something? Anything? I remember the show during which "she" renovated her husband's office. "I" removed the carpet, "I" painted the walls, "I" removed all of the old furniture and "I" bought all new furniture, etc, etc. She didn't do one damn thing for that new office except boss other people around and buy very expensive furniture that Phillip paid for. Sorry for the rant but I am finally so over that fake, phony woman and his promoting of her craptastic stuff. 

[LisainCali]

I agree, Gam.  She has ruined her natural beauty with bad plastic surgery.  I just hate it when Phil pushes his Dr. on Demand....his son, Jay's book company...and Robins' beauty line.  

What the Hell is HE thinking?  I'm not sure where Oprah falls on these shameless, horrific shilling of product lines.  LA is a tough place to live for women.  A beautiful woman is a dime a dozen in Hollywood and Beverly HIlls. I get that.  But I am much more impressed with her 'When Georgia Smiles' passion, than any stupid beauty product she is trying to sell.  

Especially with her bad plastic surgery and fillers, ....?  

[LisainCali]

She must feel very insignificant in LA.  Which is a brutal place for women...

And living in her husbands shadow....BUT she has a meaningful charity she has formed and should shy away from the superficial stuff.  Look at Angelina Jolie.  Her passion is far beyond skin care.....

[morriss]

Poor Robin.........Her face/skin is so tight, she can't even blink.........lol

[Wings]

What I find most disturbing about Robin's face are her teeth.  Her veneers were made longer than her real teeth giving her the appearance of having dentures.  I have seen this on others, as well.  I FF through all of her appearances.  I wonder how successful her products are. I read here that she has face cream.  We need yet another cream, good god. 

Georgia Smiles is one necessary thing she does and good for her on that one.  

[Zahdii]

2 hours ago, wings707 said:

Georgia Smiles is one necessary thing she Robin) does and good for her on that one.  

I've only heard of 'Georgia Smiles' on the Dr. Shill show, and I confess that because it comes from the Shill family, I've never really thought of it as being very relevant or helpful.  Is it something that really does good for a lot of women and children?  Considering how  Phil loves to put distressed people in front of the camera, has he ever done a show to prove how Robins program has helped someone?

[Wings]

1 hour ago, Zahdii said:

I've only heard of 'Georgia Smiles' on the Dr. Shill show, and I confess that because it comes from the Shill family, I've never really thought of it as being very relevant or helpful.  Is it something that really does good for a lot of women and children?  Considering how  Phil loves to put distressed people in front of the camera, has he ever done a show to prove how Robins program has helped someone?

Good point, I have no idea.  Sounds good on paper.  

[Jaded]

The only thing I've seen them do on the show with 'Georgia Smiles' is free makeovers and skincare products.

[Wings]

30 minutes ago, Jaded said:

The only thing I've seen them do on the show with 'Georgia Smiles' is free makeovers and skincare products.

Of course! LOL!

[Christina]

There was an episode that featured her going to a women's shelter and doing a makeover of some of the rooms to make them child friendly. I usually ignore her, so I can't remember the specifics, but I think it was with funds from her foundation as opposed to Dr. Phil's, and there was a discussion with one of the people who ran the shelter about how many children wind up homeless as a result of women leaving their abusers, and how they wanted to make a place where the kids would feel more comfortable. Robin, of course, turned it into a "look how great I am for helping" moment, and I turned channels.

[Maherjunkie]

On 11/21/2016 at 8:47 AM, Zahdii said:

I really don't understand how Britney Spears father was able to get a conservatorship to force her into treatment and take whatever meds required.  It seems to have worked out well for her.  I know this wouldn't work for everyone, but why doesn't it happen more often?  Shelley Duvall might do well in such a situation, if a reliable person was in charge and the conservatorship was overseen by the courts.

If Britney were to break the rules of her conservatorship and just do what she wanted-drive, date whoever-what would happen, do you think?

[patty1h]

Something about the short-tempered 74 year old bothered me.  She seemed to want to dwell on/emphasize the horrors of her life. Phil would name one of her injuries, then she would throw in another fact ("I bled for 5 days!"), not like she was proud, but to seek more pity?  Also, she was so over-emotional, and I figured out why when I saw that she'd been diagnosed as being bipolar.  She seemed like a nightmare to deal with and I hope those facilities can give her some peace.

Of course, they let Robin shill her products again.  They showed some face cleanser or something and on the side, there was this fancy font describing it that said "foaming joy".  Foaming Joy!?!  I'm nauseous now.

[AZChristian]

Don't think badly of me.

I knew that People's Court was a rerun today, so I thought I might watch Dr. Phil instead.  I read the synopsis and realized it would be just like spending the afternoon with my late mother.

I'm gonna read a book.

[ClareWalks]

This woman is what would happen if my mother-in-law "took it up a notch." Yikes.

[Gam2]

Robin's eyes have been pulled so tight that her left eye won't even blink normally. It looked like she was winking at the camera at the end of today's show. I've seen photos of her when she was younger and she was just lovely. Oh, and I agree about the veneers. Way too long. I've seen her lick her teeth over and over when she's speaking. Yuck. 

[Wings]

Damn, I deleted and didn't see Robin, usually a good thing but now I want to see her eye!  

I got the feeling the foul mouthed old woman was not happy with the help Phil offered her.  

My take- She wanted her daughters to be told to be nice to her knowing her troubled past. She didnt think her behavior was at fault, it was all them not being kind and understanding.  She did NOT want to be sent away to work on herself, that was her daughters job.  They are the ones who had to change their behavior, not her. The tears she was crying at the end, as they hugged her, we're not tears of joy that they all thought.  They were tears of horror that she was asked to go away to the dual diagnosis center.  Smart money says she is having none of that but we will never know.  She has been the victim all of her life and could not wrap her head around anything being up to her to fix.  I could not muster any empathy toward her even knowing her past was horrific. 

[patty1h]

wings707, I think you got to the heart of what I picked up from her.  She wanted her kids to treat her special because of her crappy life.  She wanted them to always recall her horrible past and be "poor Mommy, let me cater to you".  She didn't understand that she wasn't going to get any empathy if she was a ranting, screaming hate machine most of her waking moments.  Also, she was so self-involved that she forgot these are grown women with their own lives to lead.  No one can always be coddling her.

[LisainCali]

7 hours ago, patty1h said:

Something about the short-tempered 74 year old bothered me.  She seemed to want to dwell on/emphasize the horrors of her life. Phil would name one of her injuries, then she would throw in another fact ("I bled for 5 days!"), not like she was proud, but to seek more pity?  Also, she was so over-emotional, and I figured out why when I saw that she'd been diagnosed as being bipolar.  She seemed like a nightmare to deal with and I hope those facilities can give her some peace.

People like this are so exhausting.  God bless those that take them in.  It's a thankless job.

Does anyone else see an explosion of mental illness?  Bi-polar, aka manic depressive, was a scarce mental condition 20 or 30 or 40 years ago.  Same with autism, and OCD.  There has always been drug & alcohol addiction issues.  But are there really THAT large number with these debilitating mental illnesses?  

[Jaded]

I don't think they were so scarce back then. During those times mental illnesses weren't as recognized and there wasn't as much known about them. The same can be said for autism. There were awful names used to describe those who were mentally ill or developmentally disabled. One of the nicer ones was to say that someone was "eccentric" to excuse behavior away. People in those days kept mentally ill relatives hidden or sent them away too.

 Since there weren't as many meds back then people were more prone to using drugs and/or drinking to drown out symptoms of mental illnesses. My Grandfather who was a successful functioning alcoholic basically drank himself to death. My Mom and Nana always said he was probably bipolar or had depression issues that he used alcohol to try to numb away so he could feel the way he thought normal was to him.

 There isn't help out there for everyone who needs it anymore and hasn't been for a long time. The help that is out there especially for poor and homeless people is hard to access and has wait times that can be years. That results in people being left to fend for themselves as has been discussed previously in this thread. Then when people get access to that help the people helping them are more times then not overworked and bordering on being burnt out due to how many cases they are given to handle because budget cuts have eliminated jobs so that means less workers.

TIMELINE: Deinstitutionalization And Its Consequences

Edited November 29, 2016 by Jaded

[ClareWalks]

8 hours ago, LisainCali said:

Does anyone else see an explosion of mental illness?  Bi-polar, aka manic depressive, was a scarce mental condition 20 or 30 or 40 years ago.  Same with autism, and OCD.  There has always been drug & alcohol addiction issues.  But are there really THAT large number with these debilitating mental illnesses?

I think they've always been there, we just didn't have names and diagnoses for them. We called those people "nuts" or "weird."

[Pixel]

4 hours ago, ClareWalks said:

I think they've always been there, we just didn't have names and diagnoses for them. We called those people "nuts" or "weird."

We also see more of them out in public because the resources that do exist for them are fewer and harder to get to.  In Illinois alone I can think of two huge state institutions for mentally ill patients that closed since I've grown up - Tinley Park and Manteno.

Edited November 29, 2016 by Pixel

[Wings]

21 hours ago, Gam2 said:

Robin's eyes have been pulled so tight that her left eye won't even blink normally. It looked like she was winking at the camera at the end of today's show. I've seen photos of her when she was younger and she was just lovely. Oh, and I agree about the veneers. Way too long. I've seen her lick her teeth over and over when she's speaking. Yuck. 

I just watched the Robin part. I got it on demand just to see her eye!  Wow. Not only is one eye off but what was with her rolling them and not looking straight into the camera? Is she always that uptight and twitchy?  Or was she trying to camoflouge her eye? 

[Gam2]

I'm not sure what's going on with her being so twitchy but I think she's just trying to be upbeat and "cutesy". I swear sometimes Phil actually seems to be embarrassed by her behavior. I don't care how many plastic surgeries she has or how much botox. However, trying to convince women that she achieved that "youthfulness" by using her products is just a lie and a scam. She should be ashamed of herself. 

[seahag50]

I'm watching Our daughter in law is putting us in the middle today....ok I can solve all this...throw em all out give them 30 days eviction notice in writing and have them actually go to a notory and sign in front of them that they received it.  If they aren't out...take their stuff put it on the lawn and change the locks....get a big dog...out out out....  I think that the daughter is a liar and uses others and lies lies lies....I would send her out and say fix yourself I'm done.  The daughter in law using the grand kid against the mom.....tell her that she has to move and if she makes the choice not to let grandma see the baby then I would cut all communication with my son until he can grow a set of balls and tell his wife that these are the rules...follow them or I go to a lawyer and file for divorce......

[friendperidot]

just wanted to let you all know that because of things I've written in this group, I came to realize that I am powerless over alcohol and my life has become unmanageable. I've realized how angry I am at all the situations in my life and I found an on-line Al-Anon group. I spent last night there, afterwards, I felt more calm and peace than I have had in months. So thank you everyone for being patient and letting me vent. I have found the people I need, and while many people here understand, people in Al-Anon do to and it's a better place for me. I may still comment now and then.

I did watch the show yesterday, in my area, it was about a hoarder and her sisters are fed up! Oh, come on! You wanna see hoarding, I can show you hoarding! I live with it every day and that house was clean in comparison. Or at least it was newer and not falling apart. But I do understand about brain changes, I am sure my sister has been so affected by her years of drug and alcohol abuse that her brain has changed. I just don't have the money it would take. And I'm still too pissed off. Maybe time to go back to the Al-Anon group for a few hours.

[LisainCali]

Friendperidot, oh my goodness....Bless you.  I'm kind of amazed at your openness about alcohol making you feel pissed off.  A few years ago, my grown daughter made me promise not to ever drink wine and post on Facebook.  ?  

To this day, when I have friends over or go to a party, I shut down all electronics and leave Post-It notes saying, "No posting on message boards tonight!"  Works like a charm....

Good luck!