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S17.E27: Michael Moore, Bari Weiss, Krystal Ball, Michael Steele, and Fernand Amandi

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18 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

THANK YOU! I rolled my eyes when I saw her name. I can't stand her. And no, I can't explain why.

No explanation needed! My soul groaned when I saw her name, I completely understand.

On a totally random note: I would like to meet Krystal Ball’s parents, they seem like fun people.

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It's a fairly easy explanation - she's not as witty as she thinks she is, and it's yet another chance for Bill to gripe about 'college kids' and 'cancel culture' which isn't really a thing. 

Edited by DoctorAtomic
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30 minutes ago, Alexis2291 said:

You’re “seriously looking at Amy Klobuchar,” Bill? Wtf? She has no chance of winning the nomination. Smh. 

I still don't understand why he on the one hand he talks about how the Dems come off as weak because they don't fight for things like impeachment, then he's all about people need to vote for Joe Biden because all those people who are more aggressive are just scaring people off. All those centrists who will just stick with Trump (because he's the safe, centrist choice) and the whole Democratic party is now just so crazy extreme left. (Unlike Obama which is weird because I swear I remember constantly hearing how he was the most radical Democrat anyone had ever seen...?)

It's like he's constantly attacking it from both angles at once to make sure Dems stay in their usual state of panicked helplessness here the #1 rule is to not trust anything you yourself think or feel. Instead you need to vote based on what some imaginary person who disagrees with you on everything might want. Trump is the most powerful force in the world and everyone must tremble before him...but stop looking so weak and afraid! Then he's surprised when this results in dithering.

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I still don't understand why he on the one hand he talks about how the Dems come off as weak because they don't fight for things like impeachment, then he's all about people need to vote for Joe Biden because all those people who are more aggressive are just scaring people off. 

It’s almost as though Bill Maher is arguing in bad faith.  He wouldn’t do that, would he?

Quote

 ...for Bill to gripe about 'college kids' and 'cancel culture' which isn't really a thing. 

I like that he brought up—again— how he got fired from ABC as though it was an early part of “cancel culture.”  Except it wasn’t college kids that got you fired Bill.  It was conservatives.  Exactly the kind of people who you keep bringing on your show every week and telling us we must respect. [see previous comment about Bill arguing in bad faith].

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God I loathe Bari Weiss. Could she have been any more smug and arrogant? Like she’s the ultimate expert on why Anti-Semitism is because it was her synagogue in her town that was a victim of the mass murder two years ago. Her tone and attitude come off as what happened to her is so much worse than the other mass shootings. And then she cut off Krystal with the Meghan McCain-like “Let me finish” rudeness. I missed the first half and then HBO cut off at the hotel I’m at during the last five minutes of New Rules.

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6 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

I still don't understand why he on the one hand he talks about how the Dems come off as weak because they don't fight for things like impeachment, then he's all about people need to vote for Joe Biden because all those people who are more aggressive are just scaring people off.

4 hours ago, bobbyjoe said:

It’s almost as though Bill Maher is arguing in bad faith.  He wouldn’t do that, would he?


It's not bad faith, it's solipsism. Bill believes Democrats should fight like hell and accept no compromises on the issues that are personally important to him, like climate change and legalizing pot. On the issues that aren't we need to avoid "identity politics" and scaring off "the middle of the country" which he understands unlike the elites and the internet because he goes there all the time. November 5th at the Rose Theater in Omaha! Tickets still available! Tulsa November 8th! No time to argue it's time for New Rules - what the hell is up with all those fat goobers in this country watching movies that anyone over 9 should realize are stupid?

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Michael Moore said 70% of those who vote next year will be young people (didn't say how young), people of color and what other group?

If that actually happened, it would vastly favor Democrats.

If that third group was women, will no duh, they're 50% of the electorate.

I would think white men would have to comprise at least 40%.

So his math sounds doubtful.

That's what progressives are claiming, that a huge turnout of young people, who either never voted before or didn't vote in 2016 and maybe 2012, along with minorities could overwhelm the white voters who favored Trump in 2016.

That is why he's saying it has to be Bernie or Warren, along with progressive policies to inspire these young and minority voters to flood the polls.

The problems with this hypothesis is that it's relying on people who haven't been consistent voters or would be first-time voters.  Also, minorities so far have favored Biden more than any other candidates.  At least black voters have.  Not sure whom hispanic voters are favoring at the moment.

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23 minutes ago, scrb said:

Michael Moore said 70% of those who vote next year will be young people (didn't say how young), people of color and what other group?

If that actually happened, it would vastly favor Democrats.

If that third group was women, will no duh, they're 50% of the electorate.

I would think white men would have to comprise at least 40%.

So his math sounds doubtful.

That's what progressives are claiming, that a huge turnout of young people, who either never voted before or didn't vote in 2016 and maybe 2012, along with minorities could overwhelm the white voters who favored Trump in 2016.

That is why he's saying it has to be Bernie or Warren, along with progressive policies to inspire these young and minority voters to flood the polls.

The problems with this hypothesis is that it's relying on people who haven't been consistent voters or would be first-time voters.  Also, minorities so far have favored Biden more than any other candidates.  At least black voters have.  Not sure whom hispanic voters are favoring at the moment.

Hispanic voters have been supporting Bernie Sanders.  Which was the point Krystal Ball had, that Biden and Sanders have a lot more overlap in their base does than Sanders and Warren do.

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45 minutes ago, scrb said:

I would think white men would have to comprise at least 40%.

A recent poll I saw says non-hispanic white americans constitute 70% of the population of the US.  Which probably means white men are 35% of the population.  Not too far off from MM's numbers.

And the argument between MM and BM really illustrate how right-wing Bill Maher has become, it wasn't too long ago these two friends agreed on everything.

Edited by sugarbaker design · Reason: Just adding more of my two cents!
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Women don't all vote the same,either.

Bill's hard-on for Bari must have wilted with her bible stories. He wasn't fawning over her like in her previous visits. I wonder if he'll have her on as often in the future.

Edited by deirdra
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In that case, women, young voters and minorities were 70% of the 2016 electorate too.

And probably other recent elections.

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I do have to agree with Bill on the universal health care. People aren't going to vote for having something taken away; i.e., private insurance. People going ballistic over the 17 people that couldn't keep their doctor when the ACA was rather a solid success imo. 

tbh I don't think people care about healthcare policy more than if they have it then they don't want it to change, but might be sincere in wanting more people to be covered. 

That being said, I'm voting for whomever they nominate. 

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Whenever Bill comments on "The Squad", I wait for him to attack Ilhan Omar. Hasn't happened yet. However, he did put a dig on Rashida Tlaib for alleged Antisemitism. 

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Ugh! Bill and Michael Moore arguing with each other, sounding like obnoxious brats in need of being broken up and given a time out. Neither one an asset for the left.

I'm quite fine with the New Rules sermon.

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6 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

God I loathe Bari Weiss. Could she have been any more smug and arrogant? Like she’s the ultimate expert on why Anti-Semitism is because it was her synagogue in her town that was a victim of the mass murder two years ago. Her tone and attitude come off as what happened to her is so much worse than the other mass shootings. And then she cut off Krystal with the Meghan McCain-like “Let me finish” rudeness. I missed the first half and then HBO cut off at the hotel I’m at during the last five minutes of New Rules.

Minor correction: It was actually in October of last year. 

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I wanted to take Bill and Michael Moore and bang their heads together, for their repetition of the fallacy about socialism.  Talk about giving talking points to the Republicans.  Socialism is government control of the means of production, which is why it stands in contrast to capitalism.  Programs such as Medicare and Social Security and AFDC and SNAP benefit society but are not socialist, dammit!!!

3 hours ago, scrb said:

Michael Moore said 70% of those who vote next year will be young people (didn't say how young), people of color and what other group?

I've had it up to here with identity politics.  We are not our demographics.  I went to school with a woman who matches my demographic almost point by point, including the same major at the same university, and she's a die-hard 45 fan.

Michael Moore made a good point about how we baby boomers, who routinely get blamed for Reagan, actually were not the ones who voted him in.  The oldest baby boomer was 34 in 1980.  It was the silent generation and the greatest generation who elected Reagan.  But Bill was right that every young generation starts out idealistic, and then they run up against the fuckstorm that is life, which beats most of them out of their idealism.

A ballot initiative for the ERA won't mean shit, since ratification has to occur in the state legislature.  

3 hours ago, sugarbaker design said:

And the argument between MM and BM really illustrate how right-wing Bill Maher has become,

I don't think Bill has become right wing.  I think it's just an absence of ideological purity.  Many people follow a cafeteria model--pick some positions on the left, and some on the right.

Bill was so rattled by Michael Moore he forgot to introduce his panel.

14 hours ago, Alexis2291 said:

You’re “seriously looking at Amy Klobuchar,” Bill? Wtf? She has no chance of winning the nomination.

I love Amy Klobuchar.  She has no chance of winning the nomination.

Krystal Ball needs to go buy a crystal ball.  And then she and Bari Weiss can go pound sand.  They're both incredibly self-important and useless.  I was never so happy to see New Rules because it meant they were done.

All the handwringing about the mistakes Democrats make and almost nothing (except from Bill) about 45's myriad weaknesses which they can and should exploit.

Why did everyone agree that 45 would win today, when every poll shows him losing?

And now I'm off to Amazon to see if "Kat" really reviewed Morton salt.

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16 minutes ago, meowmommy said:

And now I'm off to Amazon to see if "Kat" really reviewed Morton salt.

You made me look.  96 people reviewed Morton Salt (iodized), though I didn't have the patience to look for "Kat".  Apparently the biggest problem was the packaging. LOL.

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4 hours ago, sugarbaker design said:

And the argument between MM and BM really illustrate how right-wing Bill Maher has become, it wasn't too long ago these two friends agreed on everything.

22 minutes ago, meowmommy said:

I don't think Bill has become right wing.  I think it's just an absence of ideological purity.  Many people follow a cafeteria model--pick some positions on the left, and some on the right..


I agree. Bill has become more conservative and reactionary (lower case deliberate in both cases!) in recent years, but not right wing. I think the argument is best understood as an extension of the last election where MM was a Bernie bro who eventually came around, while Bill was more pragmatic (and probably was the most astute and insightful analyst of any of the topical comedians). Unfortunately I think the lesson both Bill and Michael took from that election is that they were right all along and need to double down and be louder and more obnoxious this time. Which is the lesson they take from most experiences of course...

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1 hour ago, meowmommy said:

A ballot initiative for the ERA won't mean shit, since ratification has to occur in the state legislature.  

It won't, but he's saying putting anything as a ballot measure ups the turnout, which if the people who actually turn out like they're supposed to, then the election would be a landslide.

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I don't understand Bill's fetish with Bari Weiss.

She comes across to me as an arrogant rich kid who was given her position by wealthy and connected parents and has a condescending, holier-than-though attitude. Very similar to Meghan McCain. 

Is Bill slowly going through a Dennis Miller-like right wing transition? That would be tragic.

Edited by BigDfromLA
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7 hours ago, BigDfromLA said:

She comes across to me as an arrogant rich kid who was given her position by wealthy and connected parents and has a condescending, holier-than-though attitude. Very similar to Meghan McCain. 

Would you be surprised to find out that they are close friends and went to Columbia together? (Well, some might be, given Meghan's tendency to say everyone is her friend on The View, but Bari herself has said it, too, so...yeah, that tracks.)

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10 hours ago, BigDfromLA said:

Is Bill slowly going through a Dennis Miller-like right wing transition? That would be tragic.

It's tempting to do the stand-up comic math: Dennis Miller minus family plus weed equals Bill Maher.

But IMO, as long as the right denies climate change and opposes legal cannabis, Bill will stay left-of-center. 

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Caught the parts I missed and loved Bill’s New Rules- I was 😂😂 at the “Four...As in For fuck’s sake, leave me alone” He hit all nails on the head regarding the ratings and “requests” to stay on the line to answer a survey about the call you were on for me.

Edited by GHScorpiosRule
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I don't really see Bill as right wing or going that way. It's been a quite the shifting landscape over the last two years or so, and I think he's not adapted as quickly as he should. He is also way off on social media imo and tends to run that into the ground which can be grating.

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image.png.a947410e9daf18cbfdc6393338dc3d7a.png
Yeah Bari Weiss got called out in her "whataboutisms", in her back and forth exchange with Krystal.

Bill Maher pisses me off because it seems that he doesn't seem want to learn anything new.  When they got into the argument about the Uighurs, Maher interrupted both of them saying who cares about the Uighurs.  Really?

Edited by seltzer3
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This one might have also been in New Rules, but my mind's a big mush right now. But I was nodding my head in agreement and 🤣😅 at the example Bill gave about wait staff getting orders wrong: Get the wrong salad? Bill whips out phone, starts typing--"BITCH! You are going DOWN!" Only because I see it so often--outrage over outrage over outrage for the smallest of things. Instead of, oh, I don't know, letting your waiter/waitress know of the mistake so they can rectify it?

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2 hours ago, seltzer3 said:

Bill Maher pisses me off because it seems that he doesn't seem want to learn anything new.  When they got into the argument about the Uighurs, Maher interrupted both of them saying who cares about the Uighurs.  Really?

Unfortunately, outside of this learned community, I don't think the average American really does care. 

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8 hours ago, seltzer3 said:

image.png.a947410e9daf18cbfdc6393338dc3d7a.png
Yeah Bari Weiss got called out in her "whataboutisms", in her back and forth exchange with Krystal.

Bill Maher pisses me off because it seems that he doesn't seem want to learn anything new.  When they got into the argument about the Uighurs, Maher interrupted both of them saying who cares about the Uighurs.  Really?

Oh FFS, those two can both die in a tire fire.

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23 minutes ago, atlantaloves said:

who is the hell names a kid Crystal Ball...she makes me sick.

Per Wikipedia:

Quote

Ball was born to Edward and Rose Marie Ball, a physicist and a teacher, respectively. The name Krystal came from her father, a physicist who did his dissertation on crystals.

And in fairness, it's Krystal with a "K". 😉

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1 hour ago, link417 said:

@UYI: Thanks for the backstory, it made it even funnier to me 😄

No problem!

KB's actually from King George County, Virginia, which is right across the Potomac River from Southern Maryland, where I'm from. She ran for Congress in VA-1 in 2010, but it's a rural Republican district South of DC/north of Richmond, so she didn't win (my home district--MD-5, which is Steny Hoyer's seat--borders it to the east). I've been through that area many times over the years.  

Edited by UYI
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