S06.E11: Holding Out for a Shero

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Quote

Millennial is left reeling after another regime change; Kelsey deals with the aftermath of her social media mishap; Liza tries to be polite while letting go of the past; the gang celebrates Diana.

Original air date: 8/28/19

[chybee23]

This show is exhausting. For a show that’s supposed to be about female friendships, they sure can’t seem to let go of the back and forth between the two men. And what they’ve done this season to keep the triangle alive is awful. Liza and Josh have been broken up for, what, nearly two years? And have barely had any interactions? Yet, Liza suddenly can’t trust herself around him after she not blinking in his direction for over a season? And Josh, somehow, knows her better than anyone because they dated on and off for a year. I know the writers think its romantic, but they way he constantly undermines her feelings and the lack of respect he has for her choices is really gross. And for supposedly being a strong character, they sure let him get under her skin and made her annoying inside of herself and indecisive. 
 

I guess because Josh is ‘deep,’ that makes him more grounded—never mind the years of experience she has on him (even if they’ve regressed her character criminally), but he comes across as whiny and entitled. If he really cared about her, he wouldn’t manipulate her into saying she cares about him more than the man she’s currently with. And then he has the nerve to say she’s “abandoning” them when he couldn’t even be bothered to fight to be in his daughter’s life an episode ago so he could stay behind and pine after his ex. It’s toxic. They took a heartfelt letter and one of the more mature things Liza’s done this season and crapped all over it.
 

And while the writing for Liza/Charles has paled in comparison to previous seasons, it’s unfortunate they’ve reduced her relationship with Charles to being ‘age appropriate’ after Liza spent most of her relationship with Josh drawn to him and most of the series portraying them to have chemistry, common interests, a deep understanding of each other intellectually and pretty happy when they’re together. They’ve completely thrown away the narrative they built. Not sure why being good ‘on paper’ is a detriment. And I wouldn’t exactly call it safe considering the work dynamic and the ex-wife.

Not even Diana can make up for this crap. Not sure who we’re supposed to root for anymore—it’s hard to find anything to enjoy. Can’t wait for the inevitable cliff hanger to end the season next week. 

Edited August 29, 2019 by chybee23

[thesupremediva1]

Great ep - worth suffering through most of last season to get to this moment.

Nico knocked it out of the park. Best acting I've seen from him.

Undeniable chemistry indeed, Maggie. 

Wow, Nico was a BABY when the show started! 

Ugh, Kelsey. You messed up. You aren't publisher. Life has consequences. Don't give Charles guff for making a decision. Try to maintain what's left of your dignity!

Why Zane still tries with Kelsey I will never know.

Diana is a queen and she keeps the show grounded.

[MissLucas]

Well, that happens when a show is extended beyond its shelf-life. You get an unrealistic friendship-not-friendship dynamic that is exhausting for everybody. I'm getting HIMYM vibes here - and they are not good.

Dammit Kelsey, you made a good start and then you lose it again. Why are you hating this modern take on 'Master and Commander' so much?

I liked that Josh told Diana he could not tattoo her because of profuse bleeding - and not because he's not trusting her judgement because she's drunk. We might roll our eyes at his claim to get Liz but he seems to get Diana, he!

I keep wishing this show had focused more on Diana and Liza's relationship over the past seasons.

Edited August 29, 2019 by MissLucas

[KittenPokerCheater]

Diana is awesome.  Can’t wait to see her get married next week.

I predict Kelsey starting her own niche publishing company.

Love Liza and Josh together, even though all the plot lines this season regarding her/Josh/Charles have been ridic.

[Aulty]

That episode ... I can't roll my eyes hard enough.

[skotnikov]

Oh wow. How low will they go next week?

Spoiler

Kill off Josh? Or Kelsey? (Both Nick and Hilary signed up for other series next season)  Diana will realise that she's in love with Charles? 

Really they should stop two seasons ago. 

Edited August 29, 2019 by skotnikov

[Winston Wolfe]

The comments on this board are on fire and better than anything aired last night IMO.

7 hours ago, MissLucas said:

Well, that happens when a show is extended beyond its shelf-life. You get an unrealistic friendship-not-friendship dynamic that is exhausting for everybody. I'm getting HIMYM vibes here - and they are not good.

Yep, I pretty much said the same thing weeks ago. Only because this is a Darren Starr show has TV Land suspended their "five-years-and-done" edict for original programming. And sadly, Younger's creative crew doesn't have the chops to carry off the two additional years.

10 hours ago, thesupremediva1 said:

Ugh, Kelsey. You messed up. You aren't publisher. Life has consequences. Don't give Charles guff for making a decision. Try to maintain what's left of your dignity! 

Kelsey has so much growing up to do. Yes, you fucked-up girl.  Own it and move on. However, she did a good job speaking at the all-girl school, so there's that.

10 hours ago, thesupremediva1 said:

Why Zane still tries with Kelsey I will never know.

As an admittedly shallow male I can tell you why - his hormones + her rocking body.

36 minutes ago, skotnikov said:

Oh wow. How low will they go next week?

  Reveal spoiler

Kill off Josh? Or Kelsey? (Both Nick and Hilary signed up for other series next season)  Diana will realise that she's in love with Charles? 

Really they should stop two seasons ago. 

If they do any of that I'll regret any second invested in this show.

[LuvMyShows]

Random observations:

Boohoo Kelsey...tells the high school girls that she rose to the top "and lost it all".  AYFKM??  Is she out of work?  Did she have to leave her chosen field?  Does she have to start all over from nothing?  NOPE.

Typical Kelsey to have an OTT personal reaction/outburst in a professional meeting.  That, more than any outdated patriarchal ways, is what is keeping her down.

The problem with Kelsey's wardrobe is that they keep putting in her in clothes that shorten her torso, making her look short and chunky, rather than elongating her. 

Josh holding onto Liza's promise to "always be here" only shows his insane immaturity.  That was something that she said at a moment in time, and while she and he undoubtedly thought it was true when she said it, it's ridiculous for a woman as young, and single, as Liza to commit to staying in that part of NYC for her entire life, for her former flame.  Plus, he says he knows when she's lying?  Really?  I could have sworn she lied to him FOR YEARS about her age and he had no idea.

And on a side note...I can't remember the current status with Empirical as a company and Millenial as an imprint.  Can someone remind me?

[bigmag]

Ya know, I know this show is pure fantasy, but I can't get past Kelsey's wardrobe.  I know she's supposed to be young and hip, but if she wants to be taken seriously as a professional why would she wear a shorty-short romper to work. Sometimes I just can't with the clothes.

[chitowngirl]

1 hour ago, bigmag said:

Ya know, I know this show is pure fantasy, but I can't get past Kelsey's wardrobe.  I know she's supposed to be young and hip, but if she wants to be taken seriously as a professional why would she wear a shorty-short romper to work. Sometimes I just can't with the clothes.

At first I thought she came in wearing Zane’s shirt! 😆

[slowpoked]

12 hours ago, MissLucas said:

I liked that Josh told Diana he could not tattoo her because of profuse bleeding - and not because he's not trusting her judgement because she's drunk

Of course, only Lauren would think that when Diana said "I want to do something that I'm going to regret for the rest of my life," it's something like a tattoo.

[dubbel zout]

If anyone's outfit at that school needed to be vetted, it was Lauren's. Yikes.

"You're a lot. No, thank you." Hee. I love DIana so much.

[retrograde]

Shut up, Kelsey. Shut up, Josh. 

[Eri]

Wow - what a hot mess!

So to recap....Charles leaves the company to be with Liza, then gets bored and starts his own pet project by putting himself in a lot of debt (which nearly costs him his house) to start another competitive publishing business which directly affects Empirical..the parent company he still owns....he gets a change of heart and sells his pet project to Kelsey and decides to work at Empirical as an editor in order to keep the peace and have a work appropriate relationship with Liza....and now Kelsey has stepped down and Charles becomes the impromptu publisher again as if nothing ever happened...so Liza is back to dating her boss again...uhh WHAT!?

Is this a telenovela now? Maybe they could have Diana become publisher next and she can get a contract for Enzo to work in the building - it seems like the Empirical tradition to have at least one employee dating whoever runs the company at the time. 

I get where the show was trying to go with how women are held under more scrutiny in professional workplaces than men but Kelsey was an idiot - posting a drunken video after making a deal with a bunch of investors when your company is on the verge of falling under is not a "tiny mistake," to say nothing of the fact that it was unprofessional and unnecessary. Every time alcohol is involved in a work situation with her, things never end well - we've seen it time and time again. Her choice to step down was the best choice she could've made at that time and I'm glad she owned up to it  but she continues to forget the cardinal rule of "don't s*** where you eat" when it comes to personal vs. professional lives. Are we really supposed to be surprised that she and Zane are on the outs....yet again? As if this hasn't been happening for the last two seasons already? I'm surprised they can accomplish anything in those meetings when she and Zane have a tantrum and storm out whenever they can't keep themselves in check. 

And don't get even get me started on Josh...just an episode ago, he was concerned about his kid being taken across the country, now he's back to pining for Liza again as if that's all he needs right now? Well I guess it's nice to know he has his priorities straight *rolls eyes* I've never liked him.

Edited August 30, 2019 by Eri

[tennisgurl]

So the new narrative in this stupid love triangle that will never end is "Liza loves Josh, but Charles is her age, so she feels like she needs to be with him" and I mean, really? After six seasons? I have never been a huge fan of Charles or Charles/Liza, but I usually at least felt like they did enjoy being together, and they had a connection beyond both being in the same age bracket. Josh was also a dick about the letter, who is he to tell Liza that she has more feelings for her ex from two years ago then the man she is seriously involved with and that her not being with him is because there is something wrong with her? And of course Liza cant just tell him that yes, she has more feelings for the man she is seriously dating than her ex, but instead she just stares at him like a cabbage with google eyes. If she is so unsure about her relationship with Charles, then maybe she should leave both guys and figure her shit out. This whole love triangle isn't interesting, it just makes Liza seem super wishy washy and annoying, especially for a show originally billed as being about relationships between female friends and empowerment. 

It sucks that Kelsey got demoted, but what she did wasn't just one little mistake, that was a pretty big screw up, and while I dont think she deserves to have her career tanked over what was ultimately harmless (she was hardly embezzling or caught throwing ethnic slurs or something), its not like it was messing up an authors name or something little that might not even be noticed, it was a pretty public mistake, and I would think it would be bad no matter the gender of the person involved. Its probably worse for Kelsey, being a young woman in an industry dominated by older men, but its not like it was just a tiny thing blown out of proportion, she almost flashed everyone on their companies Instagram story! She did do well with the high school girls though, and maybe her leaving the company is a good call. 

At least we have Diana being awesome, including calling Kelsey out on making her bachelorette party about her. So I guess she doesn't have many other friends, thank god Liza showed up or this party would just be Diana binge drinking at home alone with a penis hat. "Your...a lot."

[BoomerRumor]

Yeah, this jumped the shark long ago. I'm a successful author and this is ridiculous. Publishing houses don't work like this at all.

[Lirons]

Hi

Does anyone know where I can get the gorgeous necklace Kelsey was wearing? The sunburst gold necklace.

[dubbel zout]

10 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

maybe her leaving the company is a good call

She needs to build some credibility elsewhere, IMO, so it was a good call. Also, it does seem as if Charles and Zane are totally reversing her earlier decisions. I don't blame Kelsey for being upset about that. 

I'm not liking the triangle at all, especially since Charles in back in charge at Millennial. I wish we'd had a scene where he and Liza talk about how to navigate their shared work life. 

I get Josh is upset, but I agree he has no place telling Liza how she feels about him. And just because she promised to always be there for his daughter doesn't mean she would literally be in the same city. 

Ugh, we're basically back to the beginning as far as the relationships go. That's not how it's supposed to work, Show! At least Diana, the only adult on the show, is killing it.

ETA:

9 hours ago, BoomerRumor said:

Publishing houses don't work like this at all.

I've worked in publishing and...seen things. This is certainly exaggerated, but it's not entirely unrealistic, let's put it that way.

[morakot]

21 hours ago, chitowngirl said:

At first I thought she came in wearing Zane’s shirt! 😆

I assumed it was her day off and she came in to clear out her desk.

[slowpoked]

On 8/29/2019 at 8:54 PM, Eri said:

And don't get even get me started on Josh...just an episode ago, he was concerned about his kid being taken across the country,

Speaking of that - did I hear it correctly that Claire is no longer moving to LA, just because Josh was able to open a shop at the Forever 21 store???

Way to go for female empowerment, show!

I really hate how the writers turned likable enough characters into cartoons just to force the love triangle. I love Josh. I loved it when Josh and Liza were together. I think he's a good guy. All in all, I think he handled everything well and as maturely as he could (Liza lying about her age, Liza having a kid, genuinely wanting to be together with Liza and being in love with her when he could bed any 20-year old he wants, having something productive to do with his life, etc.).
 

But by golly, the writers destroyed everything that made Josh someone to root for. Ugh. 

Edited August 31, 2019 by slowpoked

[morakot]

1 hour ago, slowpoked said:

Speaking of that - did I hear it correctly that Claire is no longer moving to LA, just because Josh was able to open a shop at the Forever 21 store???

Yup, because having a full-time job as a senior program manager at a Google branch office with stock options, a 401K, health insurance for herself and dependents, is not as financially secure as having your ex-husband support you on the proceeds of a tattoo parlor in a clothes shop.

[Yeah No]

I just can't with this show anymore.  I even forgot to post I was so disgusted with it.  I think Darren Starr has lost interest in it and is not putting enough attention into the story.  It's like everything that happens is willy-nilly and knee-jerk. Like the fact that Charles is back in charge now -- so what happened to him stepping down because of Liza?  That's not even addressed, like no one thought that much to realize it kind of contradicts where they were going only a week or so ago. 

I have a feeling the show is taking its plot cues from the internet.  They want to please everyone that posts an opinion on social media and in trying to do that they end up pleasing no one.  The whole Josh vs. Charles thing was allowed to take over the show because that's what the fans seemed obsessed with online, but it's not ALL they wanted to see.  The show is pretty much only about that with a little Diana, Kelsey and Maggie thrown in just for comic relief.  And in making it all about that, it's suffering from not really having any inspiration on what to do with the characters.  You can't take opinions you see on social media as necessarily representative of the majority or even what the majority really wants.  In this case the audience seemed split over Charles and Josh.  So what do they do?  Give us Josh with Charles as a threat, now Charles with Josh as a threat, and making a mess out of both scenarios so that the audience won't even care who she ends up with in the end.  Or maybe that's their real goal, LOL.

Edited August 31, 2019 by Yeah No

[Aulty]

21 hours ago, slowpoked said:

Speaking of that - did I hear it correctly that Claire is no longer moving to LA, just because Josh was able to open a shop at the Forever 21 store???

20 hours ago, morakot said:

Yup, because having a full-time job as a senior program manager at a Google branch office with stock options, a 401K, health insurance for herself and dependents, is not as financially secure as having your ex-husband support you on the proceeds of a tattoo parlor in a clothes shop.

^^ All of that

Does Josh think that Infinitely 21 gig will last forever? Maybe he should turn his emotion reading radar away from planet Liza and take a closer, long term look, at his own situation.

I would not be surprised if he learns in the finale that Claire will more to LA after all. That girl is not stupid.

And speaking of Claire. The last time Liza and Josh split up - please correct me if I am wrong - wasn't it his decision, because he wanted to get out of the infinite Liza loop, and he went on to marry Claire the next day?

Edited August 31, 2019 by Aulty

[dubbel zout]

1 hour ago, Aulty said:

I would not be surprised if he learns in the finale that Claire will more to LA after all. That girl is not stupid.

I think that will happen so Josh has some angst. It can't all be about Liza.

[dmc]

Sorry but if they were going to make an ad be an issue as a plot contrivance than they should have made a good ad.  Every time they show it, it bothers me.  Get out Kelsey, you’re making the right move.  I cannot believe all the comments I see about Kelsey needing to grow up, she acts more mature than Charles.  Liza you can move on and still see Josh.  It’s not an either/or

Edited September 2, 2019 by dmc

[Heathrowe]

This show feels like it lost a good writer or it's showrunner moved on or something? Something is missing and they have really lost the plot.

[Heathrowe]

Also is it bad that I really like the Inifinitely 21 woman? She is funny.

[morakot]

On 8/30/2019 at 10:05 PM, Yeah No said:

I think Darren Starr has lost interest in it and is not putting enough attention into the story.

I think he suffers from Ryan Murphy disease when later episodes and seasons completely ruin the earlier ones. 

[MissL]

On 8/30/2019 at 2:39 PM, slowpoked said:

Speaking of that - did I hear it correctly that Claire is no longer moving to LA, just because Josh was able to open a shop at the Forever 21 store???

Way to go for female empowerment, show!

I really hate how the writers turned likable enough characters into cartoons just to force the love triangle. I love Josh. I loved it when Josh and Liza were together. I think he's a good guy. All in all, I think he handled everything well and as maturely as he could (Liza lying about her age, Liza having a kid, genuinely wanting to be together with Liza and being in love with her when he could bed any 20-year old he wants, having something productive to do with his life, etc.).
 

But by golly, the writers destroyed everything that made Josh someone to root for. Ugh. 

I finally watched the show and I don’t really get how this episode destroyed Josh. Based on everything I read here I expected him to act like a total asshole but he didn’t.

1) Liza showed up to his place of work (I know accident on her part) and then proceeded to walk past him without even  acknowledging him which would totally piss me off so I get him being angry.  Actually I had a friend who stopped talking me because of his girlfriends jealousy (when NOTHING had happened between us) so I totally am identifying with Josh here. She promised to be his friend and be in his life and...well I’m team Josh on this.  Only place he went too far is asking who she loved more but she’s the one implying that her feelings for him are too strong for her to be around him. Basically she started it.

2) as for the job/Claire thing. She told him she was taking it because they needed more money for their daughters future. Yes it’s a great opportunity and the feminist in me is saying follow her for her job but he has property and seemingly a pretty successful business in NY and now he’s found a way to make more money in that business. I don’t think it’s crazy that he wants to stay in NY. Maybe not even crazy she’d turn down a promotion to stay. There are lots of factors in that. The writers are just doing a terrible job showing Claire’s perspective here. Again I think Josh is doing his best and I don’t think it’s all about Liza for him and why he wants to stay. I turned down an interview in CA with google because I didn’t want to move (and they had a different opportunity in Chicago I could talk to them about -it happens). Again I may be projecting here.

in summary I’m just loving Josh this year and he actually fits in Liza’s new life as he’s more integrated with her friends than Charles seems to be, and this year I’m finding Charles to be a limp noodle who makes confounding decisions and still ends up on top of his business while the ladies get punished. And I used to be team Charles!! If the writers want me to flip I guess they did a good job.

[Yeah No]

On 9/4/2019 at 11:59 AM, Heathrowe said:

Also is it bad that I really like the Inifinitely 21 woman? She is funny.

No, I like her too and recognized her from a great role as a lovable character named "Fliss" on an episode of "God Friended Me" last year.  She returned for a subsequent episode in the same role and might actually return again in the upcoming season.

[Ms Blue Jay]

On 8/29/2019 at 1:56 PM, LuvMyShows said:

 Josh holding onto Liza's promise to "always be here" only shows his insane immaturity.  That was something that she said at a moment in time, and while she and he undoubtedly thought it was true when she said it, it's ridiculous for a woman as young, and single, as Liza to commit to staying in that part of NYC for her entire life, for her former flame.  Plus, he says he knows when she's lying?  Really?  I could have sworn she lied to him FOR YEARS about her age and he had no idea.

I'm Team Josh but YUP!!!  I totally agree

[Ms Blue Jay]

On 9/3/2019 at 2:19 PM, Heathrowe said:

This show feels like it lost a good writer or it's showrunner moved on or something? Something is missing and they have really lost the plot.

I feel badly saying this but I have thought this for a really long time now.  Whoever compared this to the last few seasons of HIMYM: Spot on

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Ha, I loved that Diana told Liza and Kelsey to quit talking about work at her bachelorette party. This is supposed to be a fun night, not an extension of work. I know Kelsey is going through a lot, but put it on hold for a few hours.

Ugh, Josh. On the one hand, I am fine with people staying friends with their exes. It IS possible to have a supportive platonic friendship with someone that you dated. The issue is when one or both people still have feelings for each other. I'm not sure this is the case with Liza though.

I don't 100% buy that Liza is still in love with Josh though. I think that she still cares about him but now that she's with Charles and her secret is out, she is a bit wistful about what it was like to be the girl that people thought she was (a fun young millennial). It's okay to reminisce about a good time in your life and wonder what it would be like if you had made different choices. That's normal (as long as you're not obsessing about it).

I think all of that is compounded by the fact that she did not like Charles keeping secrets about his new company and continuously trying to steal the authors that she and Kelsey were trying to land. If you add slightly resentful and wary of your current boyfriend to nostalgic about your old boyfriend, I can see how she might think that she still has romantic feelings for Josh, but I don't think she's staying with Charles simply because she made a choice and she's stubbornly sticking with it. She's been pining after Charles for a long time and I think she does want to be with him but she's let some of these negative feeings about the recent situation with Charles fester. When you do that and become resentful, it's easy to crack the door open and think that things could be good with someone else, especially someone else who is right there in front of you gazing at you adoringly.

What annoyed me about Josh was that he demanded she tell him that she loves Charles more. Dude, stop. You need to respect her boundaries. You don't get to argue with someone when they break up with you (whether it's a romantic break up or a friend break up) and attempt to talk them out of it. She made a decision that she feels is best for her. Don't try to emotionally manipulate her in order to get your way.

Also annoying: Josh's attitude about the neon colors. Dude, you're getting paid to tattoo people in someone else's store. You're lucky they're giving you this much input into the space.

I noticed that he said he was glad Claire wouldn't have to move to LA because of his collaboration, but the way he said it made me wonder if he'd actually told her. It kind of sounded like he made this decision without informing her and expected her to just give up her plan. I know the show will not get into the details of his deal with Faux Forever 21 (which looks more like an Urban Outfitters to me but whatever), but I wonder just how much money he's getting out of this. My guess: less than Claire would make in a year if she took that job in California.

I have mixed feelings about Kelsey's situation. On the one hand, she was way in over her head as publisher so I'm fine with her being an editor again. But I also feel for her because although she made a mistake in posting that video, it was NOTHING compared to what a lot of other people have done who were able to keep their jobs. Yes, it was inappropriate to post that to her work account, but (1) it was nothing dirty/lewd, illegal, etc and (2) look at the myriad of things that people with much more public visibility have done and got off with a short suspension or a half assed apology. I've seen more skin on a regular insta post than Kelsey showed in that video. It's really quite tame, but she ended up having to step down over a drunken shoulder shimmy.

Edited September 12, 2019 by ElectricBoogaloo