S05.E11: You're Still Here

[nodorothyparker]

Airdate 2019.08.25

Quote

As Alicia struggles to find her new role in the convoy, she's drawn to mysterious artwork. A simple scouting trip is derailed when she and Strand are thrust into a conflict between desperate survivors. Morgan and Al hit a roadblock.

[heisenberg]

I got it!

I finaly found out what this season is about!

It all came back to me.

I was listening a tv show a while ago who had the same plot and the same purpuse.

Here:

[MVFrostsMyPie]

I'm so over the regurgitated, "oh no, I've gone from zombie-killing machine to being completely frozen and useless and not knowing how to defend myself!" storyline. It makes a scene seem 20x even longer which is not a good thing. 

[DrNowsWeightScale]

OK, so Alicia was so traumatized by killing all those zombies a few eps back (when she was defending the kids at the tree house) that is why she couldn't continue killing zombies again, until 5/6 into tonight's show? If I am grasping that correctly, that seems to be a pretty weak motive.

No John Dorie in tonight's show, so ☹️ (insert sad face here)

Anyway, here are a few links by others about tonight's show.

Logan Is A Really Sad, Ineffective Villain On ‘Fear The Walking Dead’

Excerpt:

Quote

Nope. He’s gonna watch Althea’s videos. That’s his evil, insidious plan to locate the gas: He’s going to watch a bunch of videotapes. Terrifying.

Logan makes me miss the Trash Lady.

'Fear The Walking Dead' Season 5, Episode 11 Review: More Incoherent Nonsense, Very Little Fear  - by that guy at Forbes who really doesn't like FTWD

Excerpt:

Quote

Why it [the painted trees] matters so much to Alicia, and why she thinks it's such a super idea to go paint trees also, is a mystery.

Fear the Walking Dead Fans Blast “Boring” Episode 511 - from Comicbook's site

Excerpt from that page:

Quote

Fear “has gotten so damn boring,” replied another Twitter user. Yet another said they were “bored to tears,” adding to a Twitter thread filled with largely negative reactions.

Viewers also took to social media with scathing reviews of Fear’s mid-season premiere, which was for the first time filmed in a documentary style through the lens of video journalist Althea (Maggie Grace).

A sixth season of the spinoff has already been greenlit.

Showrunners Andrew Chambliss and Ian Goldberg, who took over from series co-creator Dave Erickson in their semi-rebooted Season 4, promised Season 5will end with a “big change” that will “reinvent” the show for Season 6.

[heisenberg]

1 hour ago, DrNowsWeightScale said:

promised Season 5will end with a “big change” that will “reinvent” the show for Season 6.

They do that every season and it goes nowhere.

[heisenberg]

I don't understand even the way they make the sets.  The police station looks straight from the 80's.  analogic punch clock, cathodic tube tv, etc...  except for two pc monitors everything is from the last century.

They are also doing that on TWD.  Well...  They were,  now they are into the far west.

Edited August 26, 2019 by heisenberg

[FishyJoe]

Alicia has become insufferable. Really, I want her to die now. She was perfectly willing to let people die because of her stupid feelings. Oh the pretty trees blah blah blah. And she even has strand using that ridiculous pipe, the worst weapon ever. 

And Logan has to be the dumbest, weakest villain in the history of the show. Oh I'm going to block this road until you tell me where the oil is. Even though I have enough guns and people to smoke your whole village, I'm going to block the road. Even though I could just send one of my lackeys into your camp as a mole and find out, I'm going to block the road. The only thing he forgot was a whistle and some traffic cones. 

[UNOSEZ]

Logan is annoying.. But I don't think he wants to kill anyone... I would like to know what it is he's tryna do tho... But I feel like this far into the zombie apocalypse.. We'd get some petty nonsense.. To paraphrase Wes... Ppl gonna be ppl... That's why i don't mind the tree painting or the somewhat low stakes villain Logan... So far... I enjoyed Wes' and his cynicism I hope he pops up again.. Need ppl who aren't total Tru believers.. But who still have some decency in them

[nodorothyparker]

On 8/26/2019 at 9:24 AM, icemiser69 said:

Do the writers of this series understand they are having its viewers watch paint dry?

Which in this episode we literally got to watch happen.

Alicia was echoing Madison from the flashback within a flashback half season about the end of the baseball stadium with her "No one's gone until they're gone."  I mean, sure, it's nice to want to memorialize your mom in whatever way you see fit.  But why paint seemingly half the tree blue to do it?  I spent a fair amount of time wondering if that was bad for the bark of the tree and then realized that's surely not what the scenes were wanting me to focus on and in the end of the world people probably aren't going to be nearly as worried about tree conservation.  So there's your sign that whatever life affirming message I was supposed to be getting from Alicia's turn in the all life/zombie life is precious character turnstyle isn't landing.

The franchise as a whole really needs to pick a new coping mechanism for being sad and fearing losing your humanity.  Watching previously competent characters suddenly unable or unwilling to defend themselves or anyone else just feels tired.

For a guy who's spent several episodes bitching about being out of gas, Bitchy Max Headroom doesn't seem to have much urgency about it but did waste a considerable amount of effort to rip open a bank vault to ... watch more videos.  Bitchy Max Headroom is partially suffering the effects of Negan fatigue, yes, in that we're just over yet another talky villain convinced of his own grandiosity, but even with his pack of hired goons who have to be thinking "This is it?  We're paid to shoot bike tires, park a truck across the road, and blow open a bank vault long after banks are no longer really a thing?  Why?" he's coming off maybe even less threatening than the Vulture crew that did little but tailgate menacingly. We still have no idea what his actual motivations are this far into the back half of the season or why "oil fields" are really this hard to find driving around rural Texas.

[nitrofishblue]

All I can say is that was one hell of a BORING episode. My husband won't watch it anymore and I am getting close to giving it the heave ho. They have turned all the folks into simpering idiots worse than any snowflake today. It is like they forgot how to defend themselves and have to stand around going DUHHHHHHHH

[nodorothyparker]

Yeah, I was googling that to find out for sure while the show was still on, which again proves my point.  I was more interested in tree-safe paint than whatever big poignant point the scene was supposed to be making.

[SamBeckett]

I know many of us are confused as to how much time has passed on FWTD especially when compared to TWD, and though I don't want to get into it because, largely, I don't care all that much, I found it interesting that there'd been enough time to have gone by so that the Walker at the beginning of the show had managed to get overgrown in ivy.

Sidenote# 2 — Many mentioned how and why the mall last week hadn't been picked clean. This week there's a police station that still had lots of guns and ammo. Is this a Texas-thing?

Sidenote# 3 — Are the oil wells or gas pumps or whatever it is Max Headroom keeps asking for the place that Al's, um, special friend showed her a few episodes back?

[Ohwell]

I am not feeling Heath 2.0.  Bring back OG Heath!

[cdnalor]

Interesting that the zombies are so decomposed that the first one practically falls apart trying to untangle itself and the second one's head comes off in Strand's grasp, but when the humans go hand to hand with one, it becomes a mighty struggle to break free.  I guess it depends on how fresh they are but I would imagine the majority of zombies are far past their expiration date (literally).

If Logan's looking for active oil fields,  it seems to me he'd have better luck searching the nearest petrocompany's office for maps.  Unless secret oil wells exist and the companies have been (gasp!) lying to us about how much oil is left in the ground.

Edited August 26, 2019 by cdnalor

[meep.meep]

25 minutes ago, Ohwell said:

I am not feeling Heath 2.0.  Bring back OG Heath!

I actually liked Heath 2.0 - however I found it a call back to season 1 where Alicia had a black boyfriend who was also an artist.

[Haleth]

I’ve been mildly defending this season because I like this group, but this epi was pretty dull. I don’t mind Max Headroom as the villain because he is much more believable than Negan or Alpha, but how hard can it be to find an oilfield in TX?  And how the heck is he planning on processing oil to make gasoline?  Morgan, give him a damn oilfield. You’re in TX, there should be enough for everyone. 

Preview spoiler: 

Spoiler

Peter Jacobson!

[OoohMaggie]

Damn those two sneaky Walkers managing to, in miles of open countryside, sneak up upon and corner Alicia at that damn tree! That was only slightly less laughable than Strand's decision to stay stood in the cloud of tear gas, oh come on writers you can do better than that, you really can.

There was a good episode there, just waiting to be exploited properly, but we had the usual 'dick squad' appearance, FFS how many of them are there? seven or eight at most, just shoot the feckers for heavens sake, who knew all you had to do was to pull the door / side off of a secure bank vault with a truck, really?

[CloudySky]

In defense of the show with regards to the oil field, they had one of their usual throw away lines to explain a major plot point of the season. Logan said Polar Bear "set some people up" at the oil field. So while there are probably plenty of oil fields in Texas, this one actually has people who know what they're doing managing it. Logan could try driving to random oil fields in the hopes that it's the right one, but he's almost out of gas so that's tricky.

This episode was boring and that's about all I have to say about it.

[Starchild]

It was disappointing to find out Wes was painting the trees. I was hoping it was Madison. I'm holding out further hope now that she will see Alicia's tree and recognize her own words and find the group.

Yeah I want Madison back, don't @ me.

[Ohwell]

4 hours ago, meep.meep said:

I actually liked Heath 2.0 - however I found it a call back to season 1 where Alicia had a black boyfriend who was also an artist.

I just don't think his acting is up to par with OG Heath's.  Maybe he'll get better if he doesn't get eaten. 

[diebartdie]

Why did Logan and his crew tear the wall down at the bank? Morgan and Al just walked in, Im pretty sure Logan and co. could have done the same.

[heisenberg]

11 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

Alicia, "No one's gone until they're gone."

Viewers, "No rating's gone until they're gone."

[heisenberg]

9 hours ago, nodorothyparker said:

The franchise as a whole really needs to pick a new coping mechanism for being sad and fearing losing your humanity.  Watching previously competent characters suddenly unable or unwilling to defend themselves or anyone else is just feels tired.

I have been repeating the same thing over the last seasons.  We are in 2019, not 1980.  If the world collapsed with most of the people turning zombie at the rate we saw in the first season, most of the things should have been left untouched.

Instead of traveling in bad places with no supplies and everything in ruins I've could have seen them heading for places with big self sufficients mansions like Beverly hills or Malibu, etc...  You spot a property with high security walls with solar panels on the roof and up to date tech to help you out.  You can go in every single dealership yard to pick up a brand new vehicule that is not beaten and can do more than 5 miles to the gallon.

Maybe Ozzy Osborne is your neighbour and he is still alive.  Lol! 

Joke apart, even Strand knows how to use a boat,  They could pick a 1 000 000 000$ one and live on it,  I don't know,  why do they have to be miserable when they have the whole world to choose from? 

[Starchild]

2 hours ago, diebartdie said:

Why did Logan and his crew tear the wall down at the bank? Morgan and Al just walked in, Im pretty sure Logan and co. could have done the same.

Also, why did the tearing down of the wall shake the tapes out onto the floor? Didn't she lock them up? If not, why bother with a vault in the first place?

[heisenberg]

4 hours ago, Starchild said:

Also, why did the tearing down of the wall shake the tapes out onto the floor? Didn't she lock them up? If not, why bother with a vault in the first place? 

Even before that, why use tapes instead of digital devices?  Tapes gets altered more faster than digital...  Seems like everything digital vanished from the earth or never existed.  

[OoohMaggie]

13 hours ago, diebartdie said:

Why did Logan and his crew tear the wall down at the bank? Morgan and Al just walked in, Im pretty sure Logan and co. could have done the same.

Al had the combination for the vault door, its explained in the 'Al tape' named Clark over on spoiler / spec page

https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/24382-spoilers-and-spoiler-speculation-anarchy-in-the-usa/?do=findComment&comment=5535551

Edited August 27, 2019 by OoohMaggie

[Haleth]

10 hours ago, diebartdie said:

Why did Logan and his crew tear the wall down at the bank? Morgan and Al just walked in, Im pretty sure Logan and co. could have done the same.

The vault was locked.  Al said she knew the combination because she had known the bank manager.  (Of course she did.)  Logan thought maybe the group had hidden the elusive journals in the vault.  His only interest in the tapes is to see if someone slipped up and gave away where the even more elusive oil fields are.  I'm not sure how he even knew about the bank to begin with though.  Did Al say something over the walkie about going to the bank?

Edited August 27, 2019 by Haleth

[OoohMaggie]

Regarding Max looking at Morgan's tape, I do hope the show isn't going to let him get inside Morgan's head, resulting in yet another mental about turn, how many have we had so far? They wouldn't go down that path again, would they?

[FishyJoe]

4 hours ago, Haleth said:

The vault was locked.  Al said she knew the combination because she had known the bank manager.  (Of course she did.)  Logan thought maybe the group had hidden the elusive journals in the vault.  His only interest in the tapes is to see if someone slipped up and gave away where the even more elusive oil fields are.  I'm not sure how he even knew about the bank to begin with though.  Did Al say something over the walkie about going to the bank?

What kind of crappy bank has a manager that gives out the combination to their girlfriends and has a vault that can be opened with a semi truck? 

[OoohMaggie]

1 hour ago, FishyJoe said:

What kind of crappy bank has a manager that gives out the combination to their girlfriends and has a vault that can be opened with a semi truck? 

I think we all agree about the truck, but girlfriend?

[CloudySky]

9 hours ago, Haleth said:

The vault was locked.  Al said she knew the combination because she had known the bank manager.  (Of course she did.)  Logan thought maybe the group had hidden the elusive journals in the vault.  His only interest in the tapes is to see if someone slipped up and gave away where the even more elusive oil fields are.  I'm not sure how he even knew about the bank to begin with though.  Did Al say something over the walkie about going to the bank?

This kept bothering me after watching the episode. Alicia had to reveal their position at the police station but there was no reason for Morgan and Al to reveal theirs so how did Logan find out what they were up to?? Or were they really stupid enough to reply with "we're at bank so and so on Bank Avenue and will be there soon"??

[mxc90]

The episode's title: "You're Still Here", I guess the show is wondering why are people still watching. The writers must have mentally checked out a long time ago.

At the end, where was dead Ferris Bueller to tell us to go home?

Edited August 28, 2019 by mxc90

[DrNowsWeightScale]

On 8/26/2019 at 1:40 AM, heisenberg said:

I don't understand even the way they make the sets.  The police station looks straight from the 80's.  analogic punch clock, cathodic tube tv, etc...  except for two pc monitors everything is from the last century.

They are also doing that on TWD.  Well...  They were,  now they are into the far west.

Now that you mention the thing about sets / shooting locations. And perhaps I'm wrong about this, but.

There was a shot an episode or two ago of Morgan sitting down (road side) outside on a bright, sunny day, with a line of trees forming a canopy behind him.

 I remember thinking how pretty they looked, with the sunlight streaming through the leaves, and it would be nice to take a walk through such a scenic route.

I'm pretty sure (but again, I could be wrong), that they've gone on to film a few more scenes there, at that same exact location, because a few times, one or more characters, episodes later, appear to be standing on a road with a canopy of trees behind them. And I think they're supposed to be in a different location, not the same road side.

[DrNowsWeightScale]

On 8/26/2019 at 7:59 AM, FishyJoe said:

And Logan has to be the dumbest, weakest villain in the history of the show. Oh I'm going to block this road until you tell me where the oil is. Even though I have enough guns and people to smoke your whole village, I'm going to block the road. Even though I could just send one of my lackeys into your camp as a mole and find out, I'm going to block the road. The only thing he forgot was a whistle and some traffic cones. 

Not that I entirely disagree with you about Logan, but I don't know what the alternative is.

As much as I enjoy both shows (despite their flaws), I'm not sure what else the show writers could do.

On the one hand, I do enjoy a great dastardly villain, but, on the other hand, after having sat through several of them on the original show already (The Governor, cannibal leader guy at Terminus, Negan, bald lady 'Alpha,' who wears zombie skins as masks), I'm getting a little worn out by TWD tendency to give us a big, bad guy every season.

It's kind of like that Smallville (Superman) show from years ago:
That show was quite fun and good the first few seasons,
but they resorted to giving us a "Villian of the Week" every week,
usually some kid who touched kryptonite,
which would turn them evil or insane,
to the point, fans of the show started referring to those (predictable) characters as "Freak of the Week."

Walking Dead has done the same thing with the Bad Guys - we get a larger than life baddie almost every season.

I do think Logan is kind of a lame baddie, don't get me wrong (and he makes some questionable choices), ....

But I'm not sure I'd like the alternative, either, which would be:
give us another menacing, over- the- top, super-duper bad guy.

If the show went that direction, we'd likely get yet another Negan or Governor all over again, and that feels very "been there, done that."

It's almost kind of a nice change of pace to get bad guys in these Walking Dead shows who aren't just your standard, usual eye-patch-wearing despots who are pure evil and kill others in very gruesome ways.
They could improve the Logan character, though. 

Edited August 29, 2019 by DrNowsWeightScale
corrected a typo

[DrNowsWeightScale]

On 8/26/2019 at 7:49 PM, heisenberg said:

Joke apart, even Strand knows how to use a boat...

...and a plane, and hot air balloons... ☺️

[heisenberg]

2 hours ago, DrNowsWeightScale said:

Not that I entirely disagree with you about Logan, but I don't know what the alternative is.

As much as I enjoy both shows (despite their flaws), I'm not sure what else the show writers could do.

On the one hand, I do enjoy a great dastardly villain, but, on the other hand, after having sat through several of them on the original show already (The Governor, cannibal leader guy at Terminus, Negan, bald lady 'Alpha,' who wears zombie skins as masks), I'm getting a little worn out by TWD tendency to give us a big, bad guy every season.

It does not need a villain all the time.  It could be a quest,  it could be about learning what is going on, it could be anything. 

A trip on an airplane could have been interesting if it would have been properly done. 

Example: Several people are trapped on a location and an atomic reactor could blow off,  they take the plane, they meet with the irradiated scientific,  even the children and the woman with the helicopter.  They save the reactor,  put back in the electrical system on two or three states.  Power is back on, it gets interesting.

They walk in a building and they meet with people who are trying to put back online AT&T internet and cellular services while chatting with other countries... 

Plenty of things to do even without villains.

Edited August 29, 2019 by heisenberg

[OoohMaggie]

6 hours ago, DrNowsWeightScale said:

It's almost kind of a nice change of pace to get bad guys in these Walking Dead shows who aren't just your standard, usual eye-patch-wearing despots who are pure evil and kill others in very gruesome ways.

We had the laid back approach with The Vultures, it was different, dull and laughable at times, but different.

There is more to find out about Max's group, we keep hearing that things are "bigger than they realise." When we first saw him he seemed to be being threatened by his own people, maybe they are linked in someway to the helicopter mob. Considering the oil fields / refinery are so important, he does seem a little soft in his methods, maybe he is a good guy who's just got himself into a fix.

[Gobi]

5 hours ago, heisenberg said:

It does not need a villain all the time.  It could be a quest,  it could be about learning what is going on, it could be anything. 

A trip on an airplane could have been interesting if it would have been properly done. 

Example: Several people are trapped on a location and an atomic reactor could blow off,  they take the plane, they meet with the irradiated scientific,  even the children and the woman with the helicopter.  They save the reactor,  put back in the electrical system on two or three states.  Power is back on, it gets interesting.

They walk in a building and they meet with people who are trying to put back online AT&T internet and cellular services while chatting with other countries... 

Plenty of things to do even without villains.

Couldn't like, you know, the zombies be the villains?

[OoohMaggie]

1 hour ago, Gobi said:

Couldn't like, you know, the zombies be the villains?

Oh! the good old days, sigh...…..

[Iguessnot]

What Millennials are responsible for this dreck? These last two episodes have been at the forefront of wasting resources and risking lives for the ohh so precious feelings of the featured character. I will admit both episodes ended the story satisfactorily, but the show coddles every pouty emotion to its detriment. 

It's insulting they actually pursued an "all walker lives are precious" theme with Alicia. It's not a good look for this able bodied woman to keep calling for Strand to do her dirty work. We all want enlightenment but waste gas chasing down tree haikus.

I did not like how the blinded Strand immediately determined they needed to find the man Wes shot and help him. If they had stumbled upon him while heading out, maybe I could understand it. But making it their priority made no sense.

No one has mentioned this, but I thought the shot dude looked just like Andrew Lincoln. 

[OoohMaggie]

8 hours ago, Iguessnot said:

We all want enlightenment but waste gas chasing down tree haikus.

I think things like that would be a necessary step, going from just existing to actually starting to live a life again. As June said they need to find a home.

Having watched it again I still think that could have been a really good episode, a few tweaks here and there with a bit more thought put into it, 'the usual problem' and it could have been one of the seasons best. I thought the Wes story was good, for a long, long while neither show has managed to make me feel much of anything, yet after killing thief guy when Wes was trudging down the road, it made me feel sad, especially when he found one of his trees and started to cry. It made me want to know the character better, a rare thing nowadays, to discover the turmoil obviously going on inside his head. I hope we see him again, but if all this has just been to get Alicia back into killing mode i'm gonna be pissed.

[OoohMaggie]

11 hours ago, Iguessnot said:

No one has mentioned this, but I thought the shot dude looked just like Andrew Lincoln. 

I wondered on the night who the hell he reminded me of, I think you've cracked it 😊

[Gobi]

12 minutes ago, OoohMaggie said:

I wondered on the night who the hell he reminded me of, I think you've cracked it 😊

When he turned around, for a moment I really thought he was Lincoln.

[Iguessnot]

2 hours ago, OoohMaggie said:

I think things like that would be a necessary step, going from just existing to actually starting to live a life again. As June said they need to find a home.

Having watched it again I still think that could have been a really good episode, a few tweaks here and there with a bit more thought put into it, 'the usual problem' and it could have been one of the seasons best. I thought the Wes story was good, for a long, long while neither show has managed to make me feel much of anything, yet after killing thief guy when Wes was trudging down the road, it made me feel sad, especially when he found one of his trees and started to cry. It made me want to know the character better, a rare thing nowadays, to discover the turmoil obviously going on inside his head. I hope we see him again, but if all this has just been to get Alicia back into killing mode i'm gonna be pissed.

Good Lord when I'm tired, I cannot type. I meant to say we all want enlightenment, but wasting gas looking for tree haikus is not the way. It was so self indulgent.

Wes was good. When Not Rick Grimes asked "is that yours" I felt the missed opportunity between the two.  

[ctlady]

I just can't buy Logan - especially after what we were subjected to with S7/8 Negan on TWD.  How can a bunch of people WITH GUNS blindly follow and be ordered around by an UNARMED MAN (yeah, Negan had Lucille, but even a barbed-wired baseball bat ain't no match for a bullet).  How easy it would be for just one of these 'followers' to turn on this self-annointed leader and put him down?  Enough with these gang of baddies and their threats.

[OoohMaggie]

1 hour ago, ctlady said:

How easy it would be for just one of these 'followers' to turn on this self-annointed leader and put him down?  Enough with these gang of baddies and their threats.

As I said before, our groups willingness to keep running from these muppets is ridiculous. After all the group have been through, their complete, apart from it appears Dwight's, acceptance that they're on the back foot and are running scared, is a joke. I've seen what, eight of the 'dick squad' at most. So our group can't arrange a trade to share the oil fields  in return for carrying out their charitable work, then just killing everyone of said squad in a perfectly timed ambush? Total BS.

[ByTor]

On 8/29/2019 at 10:01 PM, Iguessnot said:

It's insulting they actually pursued an "all walker lives are precious" theme with Alicia.

I don't think they did, I thought the flashback was to show that she was traumatized by getting radioactive zombie blood on her.

On 9/4/2019 at 12:44 PM, ctlady said:

even a barbed-wired baseball bat ain't no match for a bullet

Sure it is!  Remember what happened when Rosita tried to shoot Negan 🙂 

On 8/26/2019 at 2:56 PM, meep.meep said:

I actually liked Heath 2.0

The shallow in me liked him too, he's cute!