S02.E01: Episode 1

[Bort]

Quote

Amid sweeping changes at the BSU, Holden deals with severe repercussions from his close encounter with Ed Kemper.

Airdate: August 16, 2019

[Yokosmom]

Well, that episode ending was quite the kick in the pants. Holden deserved it though—he is continuously oblivious to any repercussions from his actions and never has picked up the ability to read a room or know when to keep his mouth shut. The opening scene was good too- I’d seen it in the trailer but couldn’t figure out was going on. I’d heard that BTK’s wife walked in on him cross dressing, but did she also see the self strangulation, or was that just on the show?

Just finished my binge watch of the entire season and can’t remember what happened in each episode. Hoping that the season 2 discussion thread will reopen.

[Cheezwiz]

This season appears to be off to a good start. I'm much more engaged at the top than I was in the previous season, which I found really draggy. I'm glad the show seems to be focused on the three as a team rather than just Holden, who I dislike. I was glad to see him get a good dressing down. I wonder if he's going to develop an addiction to pills now? So glad his love interest is not a factor this season. Their new boss seems ultra gung-ho, but I'm wondering what he has up his sleeve: is he actually going to be supportive? Or is he just hoping to capture some glory with this new venture? I'm continuing to enjoy the actor who plays Bill Tench, and am curious as to how his family life will fare this season.

The opening scene was ultra-creepy - was that supposed to be the BTK's wife entering  the house? He was a repairman, so I thought maybe he had gained entry to some random customer's house and started his cross-dressing S&M routine.

[dramachick]

I could tell that Shepard wasn't happy about retiring, but I thought it was because he didn't want to deal with Holden and the politics anymore. 

Damn! Shepard took the fall, and now Gunn has slid into the catbird seat to bask in the glory of what will become the marquee division of the FBI. It's a wonder Shepard didn't punch Holden when they were outside.

I'm not binging. I'll probably spread out my viewing over two or three weeks.

[DrSpaceman]

I like the new direction of the show. 

Not surprising the director took the fall

10 hours ago, Cheezwiz said:

This season appears to be off to a good start. I'm much more engaged at the top than I was in the previous season, which I found really draggy. I'm glad the show seems to be focused on the three as a team rather than just Holden, who I dislike. I was glad to see him get a good dressing down. I wonder if he's going to develop an addiction to pills now? So glad his love interest is not a factor this season. Their new boss seems ultra gung-ho, but I'm wondering what he has up his sleeve: is he actually going to be supportive? Or is he just hoping to capture some glory with this new venture? I'm continuing to enjoy the actor who plays Bill Tench, and am curious as to how his family life will fare this season.

The opening scene was ultra-creepy - was that supposed to be the BTK's wife entering  the house? He was a repairman, so I thought maybe he had gained entry to some random customer's house and started his cross-dressing S&M routine.

It was the BTK killer and his wife at the beginning, though I am not sure what he was doing exactly.  Something weird and sexual I am guessing

The new guy in charge I am sure is using this as a huge PR opportunity to advance his career. 

Don't really care about the GF either. 

[ghoulina]

1 hour ago, DrSpaceman said:

It was the BTK killer and his wife at the beginning, though I am not sure what he was doing exactly.  Something weird and sexual I am guessing

Was he dressed up in something? An apron maybe? It all happened so fast. But I thought he was trying to asphyxiate himself with whatever he had rigged up between the rope and the door. My guess was that he was sort of acting out his fantasies on himself. Maybe he was laying low and couldn't kill at that point? So he was trying to play both parts? I have no idea if that's anywhere close to what was going on....

[Epeolatrix]

Quote

It was the BTK killer and his wife at the beginning, though I am not sure what he was doing exactly.  Something weird and sexual I am guessing

He was masturbating while performing autoerotic asphyxiation, dressed in lingerie and wearing a mask. (The link goes to the Merriam-Webster dictionary definition.)

[Atlanta]

As per last season, Dr Carr constantly looks like she smelled poop.

[AimingforYoko]

44 minutes ago, Atlanta said:

As per last season, Dr Carr constantly looks like she smelled poop.

Well, there does seem to be a lot of bullshit around when dealing with the FBI. She was definitely checking out that bartender, though.

Gunn seems to think Holden's the Golden Boy. It will be interesting to see how that plays out among the team.

[Calvada]

Shallow/trivial observations:  is it just my screen, or does Dr. Carr appear to have her makeup applied with a trowel?  I kept thinking I'd see the foundation sliding right off.  And they really went all in with the perm on Nancy and the huge glasses.  Awful flashbacks to the late 70s and early 80s!  I hope Holden laundered that stinky shirt before returning it to Bill.  

How is it possible that an FBI agent could collapse in a state correctional facility and nobody would notify the Bureau?  Holden wasn't in any position to say don't call anyone.  Wouldn't they have wanted to determine if he had a wife or other relative who should be notified that he was in the hospital? 

[mledawn]

On 8/17/2019 at 10:07 PM, Calvada said:

How is it possible that an FBI agent could collapse in a state correctional facility and nobody would notify the Bureau?  Holden wasn't in any position to say don't call anyone.  Wouldn't they have wanted to determine if he had a wife or other relative who should be notified that he was in the hospital? 

Seriously. He had his weapon on him, his badge... I'm floored no one was contacted. 

The way Gunn is being shown, I can't help but think he's shady af. The mood music isn't helping.

Holden is still sooo not self aware.

[tennisgurl]

Holdon is still a mess I see, both mentally shaken from looking too far into the abyss, and continuing his lack of self awareness and the consequences of his own actions. 

This is a good start to the season, it seems like we are going to get a lot of interesting stuff this year (BTK is around still being creepy) and the look of the show is still really atmospheric and somber without being too glum to the point where it becomes boring.

New Boss seems to be really supportive...almost too supportive. I think he sees this as a way for him to jump on the bandwagon of a profitable and flashy new office so that he can take all of the credit for whatever they do.

[Cheezwiz]

1 hour ago, tennisgurl said:

New Boss seems to be really supportive...almost too supportive. I think he sees this as a way for him to jump on the bandwagon of a profitable and flashy new office so that he can take all of the credit for whatever they do.

That's definitely the vibe I'm getting. Like he's excited to parachute in and have the glory of this new unit that other people worked to establish reflected back on him. Even with Bill Tench and Dr. Carr sitting on him, I bet Holden will fuck things up royally somehow.

[Athena5217]

On 8/17/2019 at 10:07 PM, Calvada said:

How is it possible that an FBI agent could collapse in a state correctional facility and nobody would notify the Bureau?  Holden wasn't in any position to say don't call anyone.  Wouldn't they have wanted to determine if he had a wife or other relative who should be notified that he was in the hospital? 

I thought Tench was notified, and that is how he knew where Holden was. Then  because Shepard was leaving it was easy for him to keep the where Holdenwas a secret.

[festivus]

I love the basement. Back then they probably found it kind of depressing to be down there but as a child of the 70s looking at it just comforts me. I would happily work in a place like that.

I probably should have refreshed myself before starting the second season because I have such a terrible memory but they did a good job throughout the episode with pacing it and explaining just enough so I was able to remember.

Music great as usual. Loved the The Overlord by the Talking Heads on the end credits.

[Clanstarling]

6 hours ago, festivus said:

I love the basement. Back then they probably found it kind of depressing to be down there but as a child of the 70s looking at it just comforts me. I would happily work in a place like that.

I'm a child of the 70's too - and don't relate to the basement at all (but then I have a very different background than most, and a bit of claustrophobia). I'm curious about why it is comforting, if it's not too personal.

On 8/16/2019 at 7:05 PM, Yokosmom said:

Well, that episode ending was quite the kick in the pants. Holden deserved it though—he is continuously oblivious to any repercussions from his actions and never has picked up the ability to read a room or know when to keep his mouth shut.

I loved that smack down - not just because Holden deserved every second of it - but because it was beautifully written and wonderfully played. 

Edited August 19, 2019 by Clanstarling

[festivus]

1 hour ago, Clanstarling said:

I'm a child of the 70's too - and don't relate to the basement at all (but then I have a very different background than most, and a bit of claustrophobia). I'm curious about why it is comforting, if it's not too personal.

No, I don't mind. My granddad was an architect and when I was little he worked from home. My grandparent's house had a basement and an attic room where he kept all his stuff and I spent a lot of my time in those two places. He died in 1972 and I adored him so I guess anything that reminds me of that time is comforting to me. I actually have a bit of claustrophobia too.

[Clanstarling]

25 minutes ago, festivus said:

No, I don't mind. My granddad was an architect and when I was little he worked from home. My grandparent's house had a basement and an attic room where he kept all his stuff and I spent a lot of my time in those two places. He died in 1972 and I adored him so I guess anything that reminds me of that time is comforting to me. I actually have a bit of claustrophobia too.

That makes a lot of sense. Thank you for sharing.

[Swartz]

Great start to the new season.

As a Fringe fan I was thrilled to see a reunion between Agent Dunham and The Observer!   Michael Cerversis is a nice addition to the cast

[BigBlueMastiff]

On 8/17/2019 at 9:07 PM, Calvada said:

Shallow/trivial observations:  is it just my screen, or does Dr. Carr appear to have her makeup applied with a trowel?  I kept thinking I'd see the foundation sliding right off.  And they really went all in with the perm on Nancy and the huge glasses.  Awful flashbacks to the late 70s and early 80s!  I hope Holden laundered that stinky shirt before returning it to Bill.  

I also noticed, her face was much darker than her neck, odd. Also, loved Holden getting his comeuppance, he is such a self-absorbed dick.

[BigBlueMastiff]

23 hours ago, Clanstarling said:

I'm a child of the 70's too - and don't relate to the basement at all (but then I have a very different background than most, and a bit of claustrophobia). I'm curious about why it is comforting, if it's not too personal.

It's where our family room was, tv, games, good times.

[sinkwriter]

On 8/19/2019 at 3:49 AM, Athena5217 said:

I thought Tench was notified, and that is how he knew where Holden was.

I think they kept him sedated over the weekend (or whatever time period it spanned?) and in restraints, because Holden couldn't seem to calm down on his own. 

When Bill was finally clued in, it was Holden himself on the phone calling Bill (because Bill responded with, "Where the fuck have you been??"), so it seemed Holden had missed work and no one had called anyone on his behalf. That was pretty strange to me. Before Holden's call to Bill, I kept waiting for someone to come down to the basement and tell Bill or Dr. Carr where Holden was or say there'd been "an incident."

[auntiemel]

I liked this as an opener, it set up some arcs for the season. Good God, I'd forgotten how much I hated the gigantic and aggressively bright white chyrons.

Also, several years ago Stephen King published a short story loosely inspired by BTK, and BTK's daughter did some press about how she felt that was exploitative of him (although, her position may have softened later when she wrote her own book? IDK, LOL). Anyway, I couldn't help but wonder what she thinks/would think about the vignette in this episode.

[Roseanna]

On 8/18/2019 at 5:07 AM, Calvada said:

How is it possible that an FBI agent could collapse in a state correctional facility and nobody would notify the Bureau?  Holden wasn't in any position to say don't call anyone.  Wouldn't they have wanted to determine if he had a wife or other relative who should be notified that he was in the hospital? 

On 8/19/2019 at 5:35 AM, mledawn said:

Seriously. He had his weapon on him, his badge... I'm floored no one was contacted. 

On 8/19/2019 at 11:49 AM, Athena5217 said:

I thought Tench was notified, and that is how he knew where Holden was. Then  because Shepard was leaving it was easy for him to keep the where Holdenwas a secret.

On 8/23/2019 at 3:31 AM, sinkwriter said:

I think they kept him sedated over the weekend (or whatever time period it spanned?) and in restraints, because Holden couldn't seem to calm down on his own. 

When Bill was finally clued in, it was Holden himself on the phone calling Bill (because Bill responded with, "Where the fuck have you been??"), so it seemed Holden had missed work and no one had called anyone on his behalf. That was pretty strange to me. Before Holden's call to Bill, I kept waiting for someone to come down to the basement and tell Bill or Dr. Carr where Holden was or say there'd been "an incident."

Yes, it was hardly how things are done irl.

But it can make a good plot: was it ever discoved and what are the results then? 

[methodwriter85]

"I was just goofin' around!"

That scene was brilliant. Just brilliant. What a way to start the season!

[HunterHunted]

On 8/17/2019 at 9:07 PM, Calvada said:

How is it possible that an FBI agent could collapse in a state correctional facility and nobody would notify the Bureau?  Holden wasn't in any position to say don't call anyone.  Wouldn't they have wanted to determine if he had a wife or other relative who should be notified that he was in the hospital?

On 8/18/2019 at 9:35 PM, mledawn said:

Seriously. He had his weapon on him, his badge... I'm floored no one was contacted. 

On 8/19/2019 at 3:49 AM, Athena5217 said:

I thought Tench was notified, and that is how he knew where Holden was. Then  because Shepard was leaving it was easy for him to keep the where Holdenwas a secret.

On 8/22/2019 at 7:31 PM, sinkwriter said:

I think they kept him sedated over the weekend (or whatever time period it spanned?) and in restraints, because Holden couldn't seem to calm down on his own. 

When Bill was finally clued in, it was Holden himself on the phone calling Bill (because Bill responded with, "Where the fuck have you been??"), so it seemed Holden had missed work and no one had called anyone on his behalf. That was pretty strange to me. Before Holden's call to Bill, I kept waiting for someone to come down to the basement and tell Bill or Dr. Carr where Holden was or say there'd been "an incident."

Kemper was actually in the California Prison system's main hospital, which is massive. It was astronomically huge back then. It had thousands and thousands and thousands of patients. It was dangerously overcrowded. I don't have the patience to hunt down their DOJ consent decree. But based on what I know of those consent decrees, the hospital was probably 500 - 700 patients over capacity in a facility that was designed to treat 3,000 patients. For example, Willowbrook State School was 33% over capacity and the residents were being neglected and tortured by the staff. Furthermore, a lot of the laws and procedures we think of as standard did not exist back then. It is entirely possible that they physically and chemically restrained Holden for days on end without bothering to contact anyone. Even if Holden had the legal right to contact someone, the attitudes about patient rights were very different.

For example, I had a co-worker who found out that she had an aunt who was somehow committed to a state mental hospital at 16 for menstrual cramps. For the first 5 years she was in the hospital closest to the family. The administrators felt like they needed to move her to another hospital. They did contact her family, but they never told them the reason. Over the years, they frequently moved her and often neglected to tell her family. She died in a state mental hospital on the other side of the state 50 years after being committed for menstrual cramps.

Edited August 29, 2019 by HunterHunted

[shrewd.buddha]

On 8/17/2019 at 1:46 AM, dramachick said:

I could tell that Shepard wasn't happy about retiring, but I thought it was because he didn't want to deal with Holden and the politics anymore. 

While Holden certainly has his own issues, I felt that Shepard tripped over his own feet: the mole he planted in the BSU (Smith?) was the cause of his downfall. Smith was the one who lied to the oversight committee (Holden never directly lied). Then Smith sent the tape to them without telling anyone. Smith felt he was being morally correct, but did not have the courage to admit sending the tape.  Lying is a big no-no when it comes to the FBI (ask Martha Stewart). 

Shepard wanted to keep the FBI in the black-and-white era: changing all those dirty words in the reports. The world was changing and passing him by. 

I like the show a lot, but had not bothered with the first season because I had thought it was just another serial killer show, ala 'Criminal Minds'. (We have since binged season 1.)
I like the more realistic, yet historical fiction, approach. Although it can become confusing with what the showrunners decide to change for their own purposes versus actual events. 

[BuyMoreAndSave]

On 8/17/2019 at 2:18 PM, ghoulina said:

Was he dressed up in something? An apron maybe? It all happened so fast. But I thought he was trying to asphyxiate himself with whatever he had rigged up between the rope and the door. My guess was that he was sort of acting out his fantasies on himself. Maybe he was laying low and couldn't kill at that point? So he was trying to play both parts? I have no idea if that's anywhere close to what was going on....

Yes, in real life BTK was able to abstain from killing additional victims for long periods of time by instead acting out the sexual fantasies on himself. Then for some reason in 2004 he started sending threatening BTK letters to newspapers again, and was caught via the metadata on a floppy disk (LOL).

On 8/28/2019 at 7:48 AM, HunterHunted said:

For example, I had a co-worker who found out that she had an aunt who was somehow committed to a state mental hospital at 16 for menstrual cramps. For the first 5 years she was in the hospital closest to the family. The administrators felt like they needed to move her to another hospital. They did contact her family, but they never told them the reason. Over the years, they frequently moved her and often neglected to tell her family. She died in a state mental hospital on the other side of the state 50 years after being committed for menstrual cramps.

What the actual hell?!

Edited December 17, 2019 by BuyMoreAndSave