S08.E11: Handle with Care

[IDreamofJoaquin]

So yet another Teen Mom who foots the bill and lets her partner treat her like shit.  Why can't these ladies learn? Mackenzie needs to drop Josh quickly and I am assuming it will happen next season because that's how this show rolls.  He is ugly and has no personality. 

I would be absolutely livid if I went to a place like a winery to get away from my kids and a little kid was running around screaming.  Why is Cheyenne never going to McDonald's or Chuck E Cheese?  They are always having these huge parties and going to high end restaurants almost like to prove something. The rest of the girls are eating at places in run down rural strip malls so you already have one up on them, stop trying so hard. 

Amber is just a crabby person and will never be happy. I can't even give suggestions on how to help her at this point. It's been too long and she has accomplished nothing to improve her situation.  Moving will not help her at all and I dread her doing it. All we would hear was "I moved to a sunnier location to help improve my mood and this means I don't get to see Leah as much".  

I thought Cate and Tyler were getting a little better about the B+T boundaries until Tyler has to screech out he should be allowed to be his authentic self.  

Maci and Taylor have 3 kids, I have no idea why Taylor feels the need to continue to procreate when it is obvious his wife is not down with it. He's done his biological duty - next!

[edie3]

16 hours ago, Bridget said:

The sign outside Amber’s psychiatrist indicates that he (Dr. Stachler) is a child & adolescent psychiatrist.

well, she is an adolescent by the way she acts.

[Mr. Miner]

12 hours ago, Emkat said:

Guarantee Amber was high in the car on the trip to the doctor's.  The sunglasses and the ridiculous "dainty" talk give it away.

Can you imagine schlepping that fucking pig around? sitting there on your eggshells making sure you don't say the wrong word? I loathe Amber!

[TresGatos]

19 hours ago, outofbounds said:

I just want to say that while I feel for Brandon and Teresa, they are somewhat culpable here.  They went into an open adoption with kids. 

The only thing I find Brandon and Teresa even possibly culpable is for not slamming shut the "open" adoption years ago. 

"Sure, social media isn't the place for that but it's what they know having grown up in an age when social media is where you get your therapy."

No. Arizona is where you go to get your therapy.

 "If you don't act this way then we won't allow you to see your daughter."  

It's their daughter and their choice. Cary is Brandon and Teresa's daughter.  Tyler and Cate made their choice when they placed Carly for adoption. 

"I actually do agree about the zoo trip. It’s like going on a first date to the movies. You stare at the movie and have no interaction with the person you’re supposed to be getting to know."

People interact at zoos. At some zoos people can interact with the animals. Seems like a fun bonding experience to me.

"Why not?  They are allowed to have those feelings. "

But if they care about the best interest of Carly they would keep those feelings to themselves.

"I thought Cate and Tyler were getting a little better about the B+T boundaries until Tyler has to screech out he should be allowed to be his authentic self."

Especially when his "authentic self" is a douche nozzle.  

[MaggieG]

A wine country trip was the stupidest trip to take with a toddler but Ryder's laugh at the ostrich farm was adorable. Matt, run! Cheyenne will be punching holes in condoms pretty soon. 

Was Amber really arguing with Andrew about a plane flying low? 

[eskimo]

1.  Nobody ever said C & T can't have their authentic feelings about the adoption.  It was requested that they don't broadcast them nationally, because when they do, Brandon and Teresa get harassed!  At work and at home.  And by extension the kids are harassed.  This is a unique situation.  If C & T weren't on MTV, they pretty much could say whatever they wanted on SM about Carly and it wouldn't affect B & T in any way.  BUT, because they do it on national TV, they are feeding the crazy in some people.  So even though they don't tell anybody to bother Carly and her family, and I'm sure they don't want anybody to harass the family, they know it happens every time they say something negative publicly.  So they ARE partly responsible for it because despite this knowledge (and the power to stop the harassment by way of STFU publicly), they still choose to rile crazy people up.  WHY CAN'T PEOPLE GET THIS?  This adoption cannot be compared to a regular open adoption because one side is 'celebrities' (barf).   Imagine if every time we posted something negative here about C & T, others would read it and harass them to the point they felt outright threatened.  I actually would stop posting crap because, even thought they DID sign up for life in the public eye, I don't think anybody should feel unsafe.  And I would recognize that my actions directly contributed to their suffering.  And I'm not a complete POS.  Just a minor POS.  Lol

2.  I understand that MTV wanted to showcase the adoption from C & T's side.  And I agree that feelings around the adoption should be discussed, especially early on.  BUT!  C & T don't understand that they can still talk about how they feel without slamming B & T and sharing pictures and private conversations.  Especially when specifically asked not to.  Something like "Today is Carly's birthday, and I can't help but think about what-might-have-been on these days."  Perfectly acceptable.  "We haven't seen Carly because B & T lied to us and ignore us, and we're worried because Teresa told us privately that Carly's seeing a counselor.  She also said that we should keep these private things private.  How dare she tell me what to do?  This huge camera and massive SM platform is private, right?  No, oh well.  Oh, and here's a picture we were asked not to share because she's getting older now and B & T want to protect her privacy.  But we won't allow them to tell us what to do, no matter the consequences "  Followed by harassment from fans.  NOT FUCKING OK, you stupid dimwits.  They can't see the difference, and how important the consequences are because they are still 16 years old. 

3.  How long until Carly herself begins to be harassed?  Do they even think of that?  I'm sure many people in her school and town know who she is, and that probably already makes it harder for her.  But how long before those who harass B & T decide that Carly is old enough?  When she's 13?  15?  They know where the family lives and works, it will be nothing to find out where she goes to school and likes to hang out with her friends.  She'll probably be called a bitch and told she should push her parents harder to make C & T a priority in their lives. 

Listen, I know C & T have pain over the adoption, and that's not wrong or bad.  They have the right to express it as well.  But not in a way that jeopardizes other people.  They were getting quite an open adoption, until they ruined it.  THEY RUINED IT!  Nobody else.

I also think that Carly probably does love them, but it's not parental love. 

PS. I always have the intention of just writing a few sentences and then end up with a novel.  I apologize, I just get so aggravated that people don't see what's going on here! 

Edited August 14, 2019 by eskimo
I really suck at proofreading today

[eskimo]

Maybe there should be an "if at anytime you become famous, adoption will be closed immediately upon first privacy violation" clause in the contract.  Not needed for legal reasons, but for informational purposes.  Lol 

Also, even if Cate didn't want to go to the zoo, did she have to say that she thought B & T's idea was stupid on camera?  Where she knows Teresa will see it?  It really just comes down to a matter of opinion, but she has to be so negative all the time.  Keep it up Cate. 

Sorry, I'll shut up about it now.  I've wasted too much of my morning on this!  😑

[suzeecat]

Since I live in SE Michigan I am familiar with both the Detroit Zoo and Stoney Creek Metropark that Caitlyn referred to.  The Detroit Zoo is a beautiful park but they designed it so well for the animals to be in their natural habitat that the animals have many places to hide and although one can enjoy a beautiful stroll through the grounds you may not see many animals - at least that has been my experience.  Stoney Creek is an absolutely beautiful huge sprawling park that allows for just about every way to enjoy nature at its finest (trails, beaches, paddle boats, etc).  I think Carly would love the zoo but younger children like Nova and Vaeda would be bored and tire quickly.  Stoney Creek would probably be a better choice for everyone. 

With that being said B&T are coming from out of town so I think their choice should rule. 

Tyler and Cait are in a unique situation with their notoriety.  They gave up their baby and that is the whole reason they are on this show and making the $$ that they do.  In a way you could say that they unwittingly sold their first born, and that's what they have to live with.  I wish they could find a way to count the blessings that they have - two children to freely love and raise and a limited connection with the one they sold.

Amber:  Wow, it really does seem like the editors quickly went to work to draw a story line connecting Amber's story to the recent events!

Maci:  Really?  Who cares about your birth control?  Not me!

Mackenzie:  Why is she on this show?

Cheyenne:  I FF through her segments.

Edited August 14, 2019 by suzeecat
more to say

[Pepper Mostly]

1 hour ago, eskimo said:

Also, even if Cate didn't want to go to the zoo, did she have to say that she thought B & T's idea was stupid on camera? 

That intellectual giant Cate has the audacity to call any idea produced by anyone other than her dumbass self "stupid" is a mystery for the ages. Girl. Shut the hell up.

[kicksave]

10 hours ago, Snarky McSnarky said:

She also doesn't appear to understand dogs.  She walks over and yells and bangs on the glass when the dogs are obviously trying to get her attention.  They're at the window for a reason...it's either dinner time or they're used to coming inside at a certain hour.  Maybe if she hauled her butt off the couch and took them for walks a couple of times a day she'd actually feel better, both mentally and physically.   

She is another Teen Mom with a gaggle of dogs that she neither cares about or cares for. I'm so tired of seeing these girls get pets and not only don't care for their pets daily needs but apparently don't even give them any love. 

[kicksave]

3 minutes ago, Pepper Mostly said:

That intellectual giant Cate has the audacity to call any idea produced by anyone other than her dumbass self "stupid" is a mystery for the ages. Girl. Shut the hell up.

She and Amber think a great day with their daughters is going for mani/pedis...if it involves sitting and getting pampered, they are all in. Anything that would involve walking and encouraging teaching something about nature and wildlife would not be appealing to them. 

[ghoulina]

21 hours ago, toodywoody said:

Everyone has bad days but with Amber that is her go to excuse to treat people like shit. And every day is a bad day for her because she never does anything to better herself.

I would go so far as to say that Amber doesn't WANT to better herself, because she likes having her mental struggles as an excuse for everything. I know that mental illnesses aren't necessarily "solveable" (and personality disorders certainly aren't). But if she was consistently attending treatment, taking meds, and working on herself....you know, actually FEELING better; she couldn't pull out the "depression and anxiety" card any time she flipped her shit. 

20 hours ago, MargeGunderson said:

I think that if Cate and Tyler didn't have the continuing story line and money from MTV, they wouldn't care nearly as much about Carly. They wallow in it for ratings and relevancy. 

I don't think it's as callous as all that. I think they'd care very much for her, no matter what. But I think the show has made it impossible to move on. MTV likes the "Carly" storyline, so this necessitates that Cate and Tyler hyper focus on her. That's their niche and MTV just isn't going to drop it. 

I'm not saying they have zero responsibility. But they were very young when they started this show and I do think they were taken advantage of to a degree. I wish they would have gone off to college and left the show. It's been so unhealthy for them, more than most anyone. 

10 hours ago, Snarky McSnarky said:

She also doesn't appear to understand dogs.  She walks over and yells and bangs on the glass when the dogs are obviously trying to get her attention.  They're at the window for a reason...it's either dinner time or they're used to coming inside at a certain hour. Maybe if she hauled her butt off the couch and took them for walks a couple of times a day she'd actually feel better, both mentally and physically.   

Or maybe she locked them out there all day and they're sad and lonely. I felt so badly for those dogs. 

[kicksave]

9 hours ago, IDreamofJoaquin said:

So yet another Teen Mom who foots the bill and lets her partner treat her like shit.  Why can't these ladies learn? Mackenzie needs to drop Josh quickly and I am assuming it will happen next season because that's how this show rolls.  He is ugly and has no personality. 

I would be absolutely livid if I went to a place like a winery to get away from my kids and a little kid was running around screaming.  Why is Cheyenne never going to McDonald's or Chuck E Cheese?  They are always having these huge parties and going to high end restaurants almost like to prove something. The rest of the girls are eating at places in run down rural strip malls so you already have one up on them, stop trying so hard. 

Amber is just a crabby person and will never be happy. I can't even give suggestions on how to help her at this point. It's been too long and she has accomplished nothing to improve her situation.  Moving will not help her at all and I dread her doing it. All we would hear was "I moved to a sunnier location to help improve my mood and this means I don't get to see Leah as much".  

I thought Cate and Tyler were getting a little better about the B+T boundaries until Tyler has to screech out he should be allowed to be his authentic self.  

Maci and Taylor have 3 kids, I have no idea why Taylor feels the need to continue to procreate when it is obvious his wife is not down with it. He's done his biological duty - next!

Agree with everything you said...the Taylor/Maci having more kids thing seems like a retread of the Lydia and Doug McLaughlin storyline of a few years ago. Same dilemma. She didn't want anymore kids and he was ambivalent. She kept hounding him to get a vasectomy and he was less than thrilled about it but eventually acquiesced. 

Honestly, they don't know what do with Maci at this point...and while I'm talking about her and all things related to her, I have to say something about Ryan. If he and his wife don't have jobs, how are they are able to support another baby? She just had a baby that Ryan seems to have little do with...he is not an involved father and never was with Bentley for that matter. He's always stuffing his face with food or just sitting around in a catatonic state. His parents are pathetic enablers...and Mac is just ignoring his lack of interest in his new baby. I was appalled at him asking her if she wanted more kids soon...why? You don't even care for the ones you already have! It makes me sick to see these kids growing up with a self centered man child like Ryan but by all means MTV, give him airtime and pay him for his lousy, lazy attitude.

[MaggieG]

Taylor should call Gary and ask him about his vasectomy . Better yet, watch the episode where Gary had it done. It's not that bad. I would suggest they get his sperm frozen if they want to consider having more kids, but Maci said she doesn't want to get pregnant again.

[eskimo]

18 minutes ago, MaggieG said:

I would suggest they get his sperm frozen if they want to consider having more kids, but Maci said she doesn't want to get pregnant again.

He claims he doesn't want a vasectomy because he's not sure they're done having kids.  Yet interestingly, he wasn't as opposed to the idea of Maci getting her tubes tied.  That is also a permanent form of birth control.  So, either he's being a selfish jerk and letting Maci handle ALL of the family planning issues (no matter if it means synthetic hormones to put in her body for longer than is necessary), or he thinks he might want a child with someone else one day.  If he's OK with tubal ligation, but not with vasectomy, it is either one of these two. 

[edie3]

16 hours ago, kicksave said:

I was appalled at him asking her if she wanted more kids soon...why?

you know she is pregnant again?

[Pepper Mostly]

20 hours ago, eskimo said:

He claims he doesn't want a vasectomy because he's not sure they're done having kids.  Yet interestingly, he wasn't as opposed to the idea of Maci getting her tubes tied.  That is also a permanent form of birth control.  So, either he's being a selfish jerk and letting Maci handle ALL of the family planning issues (no matter if it means synthetic hormones to put in her body for longer than is necessary), or he thinks he might want a child with someone else one day.  If he's OK with tubal ligation, but not with vasectomy, it is either one of these two. 

Its my observation that men don't want to have vasectomies because what if their wife and kids are abducted by aliens or fall into a volcano and he's left alone and needs to marry again and have more replacement children?

Edited August 15, 2019 by Pepper Mostly

[Inga]

20 hours ago, eskimo said:

He claims he doesn't want a vasectomy because he's not sure they're done having kids.  Yet interestingly, he wasn't as opposed to the idea of Maci getting her tubes tied.  That is also a permanent form of birth control.  So, either he's being a selfish jerk and letting Maci handle ALL of the family planning issues (no matter if it means synthetic hormones to put in her body for longer than is necessary), or he thinks he might want a child with someone else one day.  If he's OK with tubal ligation, but not with vasectomy, it is either one of these two. 

Exactly. This makes me so mad. Taylor simply does not want a vasectomy because of the stigma around it and not feeling like a “man” anymore. He thinks his balls are getting cut off.  He is so ignorant and selfish about it. He just doesn’t want his buddies making fun of him.  Maci tried taking him to the doctor so he could explain that it does make more sense for everyone. The fact that he asked about the tubal proves it. They have been talking about adoption forever—so u say u may want more kids, then adopt like you’ve been saying! 

I had to laugh when Cheyenne said she was going to wine country.  I assumed she meant Napa, but she went to Solvang! I didn’t know that was considered wine country, lol.  

Anyone else see all the Velveeta in Catelynn’s pantry??? How many weight watchers points is a box of shells and cheese?

[lidarose9]

Amber's therapist (or whatever) appears to be pretty useless. Amber was sitting there telling him that her symptoms were escalating. A proactive response would be to suggest increasing her meds, focusing on self care, giving her some practical tools she can use to help de-escalate explosive situations. She was 10 seconds away from smacking Andrew in the car. And all this constant weeping. She is coming apart at the seams in front of our eyes, and yet everybody stands around helpless. We know a LOT about how to live a good life with bipolar disorder and BPD, but the approach with Amber seems to be give her sympathy and let her flounder. Let her isolate herself, do nothing productive, and avoid any social situations where it's not at a spa. It's painful to watch Andrew trying to make a joke, get her to lighten up. It's obvious he has no idea how to help her -- again a failure of the therapist. Jesus, it's hard to watch.

[ChristmasJones]

Re: how C&T act about Carly

1. Look at the families they grew up in - abusive/unhealthy adults, no healthy role models, no one even aware enough to realize these kids/young adults could benefit from therapy

2. Look at their lack of education

3. Look at the trauma in their histories 

4. Look at MTV coming into their lives and rewarding their actions with LOTS of money and "fame" - many results from this: no need to get jobs, no need to learn skills, no fear of how to support themselves (which can serve as a motivator to get education/training/job even if a person has no real intrinsic motivation), 

5. A decade of MTV producers playing therapist, coaching/encouraging the behaviors/storylines out of them that will enhance ratings rather than what would be healthiest for them.  Had they been forced to get jobs/go to school due to financial need, they might have encountered some adult role models who would have inspired/motivated them to do and be better.

Based on all of the above, primarily about the socioeconomic environment they grew up in, why would anyone expect them to act in healthy and productive ways with regard to the adoption of Carly?   

So much anger is expressed at them for not doing better and being better..... but the truth is they are not willing/able to be and do better.   Their experiences in life so far have not caused either of them to want to be better than they currently are. 

Tyler has learned a few tidbits from therapy, it seems, and in small ways he tries to implement those things - concepts such it being OK/healthy to express one's feelings. That is a basic skill that children in healthy homes learn when they are young, when caregivers mirror the emotions back to the child and put words to them.

So that's good that Tyler is starting to learn how to do that.  But he lacks the awareness of how "expressing one's feeling" needs to be put into a broader context - when, where, and how to express one's feelings. That is a level up from just "expressing one's feelings."  Tyler isn't really there yet. 

If he were in continual therapy, where he stuck with it, and kept working and working, over several years, he would progress up those levels. His therapist would help him learn about the context for expressing feelings, which includes considering how his expression of his emotions affects others.

But based on all the factors I mentioned above, Tyler has no conception of this. So he gets stuck at the "I can express my emotions" stage and posts bad poetry on Twitter and rants about Carly. 

You can also see how these sorts of issues play out in the unskillful ways Tyler and Cate respond to Nova and her emotions. That is an example of the intergenerational patterns that happen in families.  C&T are better than their parents in most ways, but there is still a lot of room for improvement. 

We will never know what direction these two would have gone had MTV not come into their lives.  They might have done better being pushed into adult responsibilities such as training/jobs/education, but that still wouldn't necessarily fix all of the unhealthy emotional and relationship issues they have.

[kicksave]

10 hours ago, edie3 said:

you know she is pregnant again?

Yeah...I know. But this was shot before she got pregnant again. I just don't understand how people like this keep having kids. 

[edie3]

3 hours ago, kicksave said:

I just don't understand how people like this keep having kids. 

when so many cant.  And how to Ryan get the energy to do the deed?

[Lastwaltz]

17 hours ago, kicksave said:

Yeah...I know. But this was shot before she got pregnant again. I just don't understand how people like this keep having kids. 

Seriously? She's pregnant again? Have they never heard of condoms?

[tumamita]

Who brings a 2yr old to wine country!? When she mentioned it I thought - oh boy! If your toddler is that busy - you don't go out to restaurants - how unfair to other patrons who are trying to enjoy their stay as well. I have kids - that gave me anxiety.  

Edited August 16, 2019 by tumamita

[teapot]

13 minutes ago, tumamita said:

Who brings a 2yr old to wine country!? When she mentioned it I thought - oh boy! If your toddler is that busy - you don't go out to restaurants - how unfair to other patrons who are trying to enjoy their stay as well. I have kids - that gave me anxiety.  

how about that time a million years ago when Gary & Amber were having lunch at some market/craft store place & little Leah was terrorizing the shelves ten feet away while they ignored her completely?

[CaliforniaLove]

8 hours ago, Lastwaltz said:

Seriously? She's pregnant again? Have they never heard of condoms?

They have, but he didn't steal enough oars to cover the cost. #neverforget

Btw, did he always have that front broken tooth?

For some odd reason, I really like Mackenzie McKee. She's an idiot regarding Josh, but otherwise seems to have a decent head on her shoulders. I enjoy her story a helluva lot more than Cheyenne's...or Amber's...or Maci's...oh, or Cate's. 🤷‍♀️

[IDreamofJoaquin]

Do we not have a MacKenzie thread yet?  I saw she and Josh are already splitting. Ugh this is all we get to listen to now if there is yet another season.

https://people.com/tv/mackenzie-mckee-splits-from-husband-josh-teen-mom-og/

[Guest]

8 hours ago, IDreamofJoaquin said:

Do we not have a MacKenzie thread yet?

Just made one!

[athousandclowns]

On 8/16/2019 at 9:29 AM, tumamita said:

Who brings a 2yr old to wine country!? When she mentioned it I thought - oh boy! If your toddler is that busy - you don't go out to restaurants - how unfair to other patrons who are trying to enjoy their stay as well. I have kids - that gave me anxiety.  

Wine country in Northern and the central coast California doesn’t  allow kids in tasting rooms. There is nothing for them to do. I usually skip most this couple because don’t know her and she’s on the path to trapping this guy for a baby. 

Amber, like you know what you should do ? Like shut up and wallow in your bipolar like. 

[StatisticalOutlier]

On 8/13/2019 at 3:39 PM, outofbounds said:

B&T knew these kids were going through a rough time when they adopted her.  Is limiting their contact with Carly really for her benefit or are they just pissed C&T aren't behaving how they would like? 

I'd have to go with the former.  I think it's a rare person who would benefit from having contact with those two.

But if it's because they're pissed C&T aren't behaving how they would like, I'm okay with that, too.  The ends justifies the means.

.

On 8/13/2019 at 7:59 PM, EmeraldGirl said:

I actually do agree about the zoo trip. It’s like going on a first date to the movies. You stare at the movie and have no interaction with the person you’re supposed to be getting to know. I’d rather picnic and talk with Carly after two years than stroll distractedly through animal exhibits.

Me, too, although the movie-as-a-first-date thing bugs the shit out of me, so I'm biased.

[CerealKiller813]

On 8/13/2019 at 2:17 PM, BARISTA said:

Notice how Catelynn is eating salads every time they eat out on camera now.

I would too if every time I dare eat anything else, it is a main discussion. I feel for her on that. I mean she just had a baby. And even if, can people have size? I think most of her issue is needing the correct bra or something.