S05.E17: Chapter Ninety-Eight

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Quote

Jane is feeling great about all the book publishing prospects she has until an unexpected problem pops up. Petra and Rafael's working relationship has been going so well that Petra makes Rafael an unexpected offer. It seems like every time Rogeliotakes one step closer to his dream, a new roadblock appears.

Promo:

Original air date: 7/24/19

Edited July 20, 2019 by ElectricBoogaloo

[funandfitpt]

Anyone else getting baseball and not the show?

[betha]

Damn you, AT&T!!!

[funnygirl]

Loved it. I'm going to be sad to see it end. 

[CooperTV]

Yay, Rose's finally dead! So great season 1 call back with the impaling.

Those anvils with LLN's "only True Love will notice something's up with Jane", and Raf coming to protect Jane after that are appreciated. Not necessary but appreciated!

Well, I kind of figured out Charlie is going to be heavily pregnant with Michael's baby in the future the first time she appeared in the Montana episode. Michael not having his own opinion or agency about his life represented in Jane's book says so much about him as a fictional character, though. He is and always was just a plot device.

They're rich!

Now for Petra's and Luisa's HEAs, and the Wedding!

[cardigirl]

I will always love Michael (before this season) and Brett Dier's performance.  I'm really disappointed that the show decided to take the route it did with his character, but it is what it is.  

I'm also disappointed with the way Rose went out, as I had hoped Michael might have a part to play in capturing her or removing her from Jane's life permanently.  

I think all the actors are fine actors, and I have enjoyed this show a great deal, but I had hoped for a more complex ending than the HEA of Rafael and Jane. I know I am in the minority, but when Jane wed Michael, the creator of the show talked about marriage and what that meant as far as commitment and work and love and so did Gina, so I am very disappointed that they did what they did with the whole "back from the dead" plotline. 

Anyway, one more episode, the narrator will be revealed, and it will be done.  Thanks for 4 good seasons, JTV!  And some amazing characters. 

(sorry, I think I'm a bit bitter.) 

[CooperTV]

48 minutes ago, cardigirl said:

I know I am in the minority, but when Jane wed Michael, the creator of the show talked about marriage and what that meant as far as commitment and work and love and so did Gina, so I am very disappointed that they did what they did with the whole "back from the dead" plotline. 

I've read in the showrunner's interview that Gina always knew Michael will be back from the dead (it was in the recent season 5 promo talk), she was just never allowed to tell anyone (for obvious reasons). The story was always about Jane, not about Michael. Rose's actions affected Jane (she had to pick herself piece by piece after Michael's "death", had to learn to live in mourning and look forward to new life, to open her heart again, struggle with life), Luisa and Rafael the most. Michael got his happy ending, he's alive and will get married and have a baby. I think it's great send-off for the character.

57 minutes ago, cardigirl said:

I think all the actors are fine actors, and I have enjoyed this show a great deal, but I had hoped for a more complex ending than the HEA of Rafael and Jane

It was, from the very first episode of season 1, the story of Jane and Rafael finding their way to each other. It is their story. It is the ending that was building up even when Jane was married to Michael. I'm glad the showrunner decided to "kill" Michael off because Jane and Michael's relationship otherwise would have been written as failing and falling apart because Jane and Rafael were always meant to be, and it never changed.

[cmahorror]

I loved it and I am very happy with the way they got rid of Sin Rostro. Luisa needed to be the one to kill her and get her out of everyone's life. Luisa's love for Rose put everyone in danger multiple times and this was her redemption.

Anyone else think that Luisa and Petra might get together now? Maybe hook up at Raf and Jane's wedding reception?

So happy that Jane's book sold at the auction for a good price. Rafael being willing to stay in the job he likes that supports his family again shows real growth and maturity.

Michael has changed and he has his own HEA. Jane the Virgin has always talked about fate and destiny, how every moment, good or bad, leads us to the one we are supposed to be with. Rose had to "kill" Michael for him to end up in Montana and meet his real true love. It was destined and, no matter how painful it was, it lead to them each finding the person they were truly meant to spend the rest of their lives with.

Cannot wait for next week!

[betha]

1 hour ago, cardigirl said:

will always love Michael (before this season) and Brett Dier's performance.  I'm really disappointed that the show decided to take the route it did with his character, but it is what it is.  

I'm also disappointed with the way Rose went out, as I had hoped Michael might have a part to play in capturing her or removing her from Jane's life permanently.  

I so agree! And when I realized he was going to be in this episode I got so excited thinking for SURE he would play a part in Rose’s capture. THAT was the happy Michael ending I was looking for after they destroyed the Jane/Michael relationship for no reason. Would have preferred they left him dead to what we got. 

[cardigirl]

32 minutes ago, CooperTV said:

I've read in the showrunner's interview that Gina always knew Michael will be back from the dead (it was in the recent season 5 promo talk), she was just never allowed to tell anyone (for obvious reasons). The story was always about Jane, not about Michael. Rose's actions affected Jane (she had to pick herself piece by piece after Michael's "death", had to learn to live in mourning and look forward to new life, to open her heart again, struggle with life), Luisa and Rafael the most. Michael got his happy ending, he's alive and will get married and have a baby. I think it's great send-off for the character.

It was, from the very first episode of season 1, the story of Jane and Rafael finding their way to each other. It is their story. It is the ending that was building up even when Jane was married to Michael. I'm glad the showrunner decided to "kill" Michael off because Jane and Michael's relationship otherwise would have been written as failing and falling apart because Jane and Rafael were always meant to be, and it never changed.

It's funny, because in all the years I watched this show, I never thought of it as Raf's and Jane's story, but that's fine, that is how you see it.  Jane's story, yes, and along the way, I found that the Michael part of it was one I enjoyed the most. Rafael with Petra also entertained me, but never Rafael with Jane. I can't explain why I felt that way, I preferred her moments with Michael is all. 

I'll watch the last episode, and then rewatch some of the episodes from previous seasons.  Just wasn't the story I was hoping for.  You can disagree with me, won't change my mind. 

Edited July 25, 2019 by cardigirl

[Bouffe]

Loved it!!!

I thought it was such a cool call back to season 1 when Rose found her demise the way she did. I would have liked for Michael to have had something to do with it, but to have Luisa be the one to push Rose was brilliant. Finally liberated her of this toxic love, and showed her family that, despite her flaws, she does love them. 

I was glad Jane told off Rose at the end. It was about time! I wanted a bit more anger, a bit more hate in Jane's voice and body language. But all in all, she confronted her, and now Jane can start moving on.

Michael and Charlie - some of you out there had seen that one coming! I gotta say I had not. Happy for Michael tho. And I liked how the writers have ended this plot line. 

"Be brave" - loved that call back to season 1!

I knew Estaban was playing Rogelio! Although the writers had me wondering until the very end if my hunch was right or not. LOL Well done!

I don't want Rogelio and Xo to move to NYC. But like with all the other plot lines, where I may have had opinions that differ from what the writers are doing, I will take in whatever those writers have dreamed of and see where they take me. So far, I truly have not been disappointed. 

"She does cry a lot" - well so did I and so will I next week, I'm sure!

[Jillybean]

I didn't realize how much time had passed this season and since Jane's trip to Montana until Charlie showed up looking like she was ready to pop. 

Having a Mateo-free episode was enjoyable.

[camom]

Yael Grobglas is a beautiful woman, but at the party I thought she looked especially stunning.  I thought it was funny when Rose was impaled and everyone initially thought it was part of the entertainment.  Although they wouldn't have added to the story, where were the kids this episode?  When Rose was holding Jane hostage, I kept thinking "Where is Mateo?"  

[tennisgurl]

Alright, first the non Michael stuff...

Ding Dong the witch is dead! I am thrilled that Rose is finally gone, and that Louisa got to be the one to do it and rid herself of that horrible toxic relationship. She has long since passed her expiration date as a villain, and I am thrilled her ass is grass. That being said, she was actually decently scary this week and not just annoying, so at least she went out on something of a high note. And with a call  back   to the first episode!

Glad that Janes book sold (its certainly an epic story!) and her and Raf celebrating and fist pumping was really sweet. I did wonder where Mateo was though. At the Marbella with Petra and the twins? 

I knew Estaban was playing Rogelio, I was just waiting to see what exactly his endgame would be. Be the villain, just like you are in my life? 

I really love post-divorce Petra and Raf. "The Marbella gives me more fulfillment than any lover has." "I am really glad we divorced." 

That brings us to Michael. I knew that he would end up with Charlie and show up with some half assed happy ending so we can feel good about what an awful break he got in the story and how the people who supposedly loved him couldn't care less about how much he suffered. I dont think Charlie seems like a particularly nice person, but maybe thats what Michael/whatever is into now. I cant say I am thrilled that us Michael/Jane fans had to say goodbye to him in another "man it sucks that Michael is alive, am I right?" plots. With the way the show has been, I almost thought Jane would thank Rose for shooting him to get him out of the way of her and her REAL true love Raf! Maybe this is just the bitter shipper in me, but I have loathed this whole Michael resurrection plot since day one and the way he has been  just a plot device to create drama for Jane/Raf and for Jane to remind us again and again that Michael wasn't her real true love, Raf was. Like its just saying "you stupid Michael/Jane fans are so dumb! Clearly he was never the REAL person you should be rooting for!" when I was already on board Jane/Raf and accepting that Michael would be Jane's lost tragic first love but now she found love again. This just says that she never really loved him that much at all, he was always just a pit stop to Raf.

Edited July 25, 2019 by tennisgurl

[miasth]

Mixed feelings about Charlie and Michael. Charlie was so surly and I was not feeling the love even when she showed some vulnerability by admitting her concerns about Michael not being over Jane. Though you would think that would be something that is addressed before baby and marriage.

Adios Rose.  Louisa ending her made it even better. 

Esteban played Rogelio and I usually pick on things like this, but this time I was surprised. Will Xo/Ro really move to New York? It is really ridiculous that River just gets to uproot everyone. Classic River, but giving her that much power was ridiculous.

Edited July 26, 2019 by miasth

[ketose]

8 hours ago, cardigirl said:

I will always love Michael (before this season) and Brett Dier's performance.  I'm really disappointed that the show decided to take the route it did with his character, but it is what it is.  

I'm also disappointed with the way Rose went out, as I had hoped Michael might have a part to play in capturing her or removing her from Jane's life permanently.  

At least Michael provided the "Rose is 51" thing that Jane used to stall her.

[Simba122504]

The LLN is gay. Confirmed. He doesn’t have any kids which were mentioned some episodes back. He’s single, childfree and gay. Michael theory confirmed. He returned with a pregnant Charlie and they’re getting married. That’s was his unexpected news. Another theory someone mentioned awhile back was confirmed. Rose is older than we thought so what’s the timeline when it comes to Rose’s father being married to Rafael’s faux mama when Rose was young? That means she was born in 1970. Elena secretly brought Rafael from Italy in 1984 when she was already married to Emilio. How old did Rose look in that S2 photo with her father? Ugh. Another theory I had for a while was confirmed. Luisa would be the one to end Rose once and for all. Luisa was her weakness. And she’s dead for real this time. 🔥 She died like faux Roman. Very clever writers. Another theory I had for a while was confirmed. Jane and Rose will have their big long-awaited big scene close to the end of the series. I wonder if the part Jane took out was, “The last breath” line?  Michael won’t die being in love with Jane. IDK. It was a full-circle moment with Jane and Rafael thinking Michael wanted her back and was still in love with her. Michael believed Rafael was still in love with Jane in 3x02 but Rafael shocked Jane by saying he was over her.  Also, Rafael is no longer threatened by Michael and Michael was no longer threatened by Rafael in S2. Both men doing different points got over that. I think I’m in love with Esteban. 😂 That move by him and Darci brilliant. Another full-circle moment was Jane and Rafael. For a very long time, Rafael was obsessed with the Marbella and everything that comes with it. He and Jane fought about him being away from their future family a lot in S1. Rafael was not going to give that up even though it meant being away from Jane and Mateo a lot. They would live large off his dedication to the Marbella. But a big part of him also wanted a real family but he also still wanted the Marbella. Now, Rafael is willing to let the Marbella go even if it means having a small life which he was against in S4. Having something he has always wanted since childhood is more important. A real family. And just when he accepts this, Jane gets 500k which is more money than she has ever seen in her life. So they still end up in the money. Thanks, Rose for that parting gift. So beautiful that Luisa and Rafael are back where they started. In a good place and truly love and trust each other. Xo and Rogelio must be really moving to NYC. Rogelio convinced Darci to go move back to New York, D&E scheming so Esteban can get a big role on TIS and Xo applying to nursing school there. I didn’t understand the feather? Was it supposed to stand in place of petals? How would Rafael even see that? I think he noticed her hand jesters? The camera closed in on it so it meant something? Brett and his real-life love Haley actually survived the curse. They had great chemistry onscreen, even though they're real-life couple.

Edited July 26, 2019 by Simba122504

[RoadFullOfPromise]

$500k for Jane’s book? GTFO.

[cmahorror]

Stephen King's first novel sold for $400,000 in 1973. Granted, that was mostly paperback rights but if a first novel can garner that much of an advance 46 years ago, I have no problem with Jane's novel being sold for $500,000.

This is a telenovela so suspension of disbelief is a key ingredient to enjoying it. I would have had a bigger problem with watching Jane spend years perfecting her writing, finally discovering her story and writing her novel, which has been well received by publishers and agents, only to not have the rights snatched up for a great price. This is Jane's story and being a family with Mateo and Rafael is only part of her happily ever after - the other part is becoming a successful author. 

[lorbeer]

20 hours ago, Bouffe said:

I thought it was such a cool call back to season 1 when Rose found her demise the way she did.

Can you remind me what was that? A few you of you mentioned that it is a callback to season 1 but I can't remember what was taht.

22 hours ago, cardigirl said:

 more episode, the narrator will be revealed, and it will be done.

How are you so sure that narrator will be revealed? There's a possibility that narrator it's just a narrator and has nothing to do with Jane universe. For me that would be the best option. If it's tourn out that narrator is somone from the show I wil be very very dissapointed. And it if it's Jane's baby or grand(or grand-grand)baby I will be dissapointed even more... That would be such predictible and cliche move... It would be better if it was her biographer orsomeone like that, not her family.

[CooperTV]

1 hour ago, lorbeer said:

How are you so sure that narrator will be revealed? There's a possibility that narrator it's just a narrator and has nothing to do with Jane universe.

The narrator will be ID’d “at the end of the series,” the EP revealed, adding that the big moment is “part of the last two scenes.”

This article is from 2017.

Since the fifth season will be the show's last, the executive producer Jennie Urman has confirmed that viewers will finally find out the identity of the narrator, who cheekily comments on the events surrounding the characters in every episode. She added that there have been "hints throughout" regarding his true identity.

This one is 2019.

The narrator probably is either Mateo or Jafael's another son. He's also gay.

1 hour ago, lorbeer said:

Can you remind me what was that? A few you of you mentioned that it is a callback to season 1 but I can't remember what was taht.

Fake!Roman Zazo was murdered via being impaled on ice figure at the party in season 1.

[lorbeer]

1 hour ago, CooperTV said:

The narrator will be ID’d “at the end of the series,” the EP revealed, adding that the big moment is “part of the last two scenes.”

This article is from 2017.

Since the fifth season will be the show's last, the executive producer Jennie Urman has confirmed that viewers will finally find out the identity of the narrator, who cheekily comments on the events surrounding the characters in every episode. She added that there have been "hints throughout" regarding his true identity.

This one is 2019.

The narrator probably is either Mateo or Jafael's another son. He's also gay.

Fake!Roman Zazo was murdered via being impaled on ice figure at the party in season 1.

Well.. That's dissapointing. Thank you for the info though 😉

I found some comment below the article you presented and that sums the situation up perfectly for me:

"Never even crossed my mind that he would HAVE an identity. He’s just the narrator – like the narration of a book (which always made sense to me seeing as Jane’s a writer and the show is set up like a book with each episode it’s own chapter). Personally, having the narrator be a real person kind of takes something away from the story for me. :/"

Edited July 26, 2019 by lorbeer
want to add something :)

[rove4]

On 7/25/2019 at 9:39 AM, cardigirl said:

It's funny, because in all the years I watched this show, I never thought of it as Raf's and Jane's story, but that's fine, that is how you see it. 

I agree with the original poster, though obviously perceptions vary.  For me, the Jane/Rafael narrative was obvious from the opening scenes of the pilot.  We meet Jane first and then the camera zooms across the city and we meet Rafael.  That was the writers and the show from the get-go shining a neon wattage spotlight on them to say "These are the two to watch."  From that moment on they each had their own plot threads going, sometimes completely independent from each other.  That told me right from square one that this was going to be a story of Jane and Rafael's journey towards each other.  I enjoy Brett Dier (and am happy that his show, Schooled, was renewed because I adore C.B., his character) but I never got invested in the Jane/Michael relationship because I knew it wasn't going to last.  The narrative just was never structured for that to be the case.  I've been burned on too many tv romances in the past to not pay close attention to that sort of stuff now.  

[funnygirl]

2 minutes ago, rove4 said:

I agree with the original poster, though obviously perceptions vary.  For me, the Jane/Rafael narrative was obvious from the opening scenes of the pilot.  We meet Jane first and then the camera zooms across the city and we meet Rafael.  That was the writers and the show from the get-go shining a neon wattage spotlight on them to say "These are the two to watch."  From that moment on they each had their own plot threads going, sometimes completely independent from each other.  That told me right from square one that this was going to be a story of Jane and Rafael's journey towards each other.  I enjoy Brett Dier (and am happy that his show, Schooled, was renewed because I adore C.B., his character) but I never got invested in the Jane/Michael relationship because I knew it wasn't going to last.  The narrative just was never structured for that to be the case.  I've been burned on too many tv romances in the past to not pay close attention to that sort of stuff now.  

Great take.

The show is very much from Jane's perspective as she is the center of it all, but Rafael is more than just a plot device who revolves around her. 

[cardigirl]

50 minutes ago, rove4 said:

I agree with the original poster, though obviously perceptions vary.  For me, the Jane/Rafael narrative was obvious from the opening scenes of the pilot.  We meet Jane first and then the camera zooms across the city and we meet Rafael.  That was the writers and the show from the get-go shining a neon wattage spotlight on them to say "These are the two to watch."  From that moment on they each had their own plot threads going, sometimes completely independent from each other.  That told me right from square one that this was going to be a story of Jane and Rafael's journey towards each other.  I enjoy Brett Dier (and am happy that his show, Schooled, was renewed because I adore C.B., his character) but I never got invested in the Jane/Michael relationship because I knew it wasn't going to last.  The narrative just was never structured for that to be the case.  I've been burned on too many tv romances in the past to not pay close attention to that sort of stuff now.  

It really is a shame, then, that Rafael never appealed to me more than Michael. And I cannot account for it.  I tried, I honestly did try, but for some reason, I hoped against all hope that Michael would somehow prevail.  There was something about the chemistry between Gina and Brett that I never saw between Gina and Justin.  I thought Yael and Justin had tons of chemistry. 

It doesn't matter.  My opinion DOES NOT MATTER as I've been told over and over.  

I was supposed to root for Jane and Rafael, and for some reason, I did not. Not sure why, but that ship did not pull me in. 

I loved the show. I enjoyed the writing and the magical realism of it all.  Just didn't buy that premise. 

[CooperTV]

On 7/25/2019 at 5:39 PM, cardigirl said:

It's funny, because in all the years I watched this show, I never thought of it as Raf's and Jane's story, but that's fine, that is how you see it. 

It's not specifically how I see it, but how the show presents it. In the very first episode the show itself presents us with Jane and Rafael, two people with completely different lives that got interconnected on many various levels, like Jane getting pregnant with Raf's child, Raf being her crush when she was 18-years-old and to whom she develops strong feelings to the point of actually forgetting about her stable 2-years relationship with Michael, and Raf not only being the only person who encourages Jane to become a writer but remembers about her dream years later. That's a very surface level hints that actually got more deeper and fancier over the seasons.

10 minutes ago, cardigirl said:

It doesn't matter.  My opinion DOES NOT MATTER as I've been told over and over.  

Your opinion about the show is mostly based on a false expectations. Noone ever promised False Romantic Lead!Michael will ever be the endgame True Love Interest. It was never in the cards, that's why Jane and Michael got married in season 2 and not in season 5. Raf almost confessed his love to Jane on her wedding day to Michael. Jafael never went away and was at the front of the show even when Jane was married to Michael (Jane getting jealous over Catalina, Michael being jealous over Raf and Jane's history in s3).

Edited July 26, 2019 by CooperTV

[rove4]

7 minutes ago, cardigirl said:

It really is a shame, then, that Rafael never appealed to me more than Michael. And I cannot account for it.  I tried, I honestly did try, but for some reason, I hoped against all hope that Michael would somehow prevail.  There was something about the chemistry between Gina and Brett that I never saw between Gina and Justin.  I thought Yael and Justin had tons of chemistry. 

It doesn't matter.  My opinion DOES NOT MATTER as I've been told over and over.  

Well, chemistry is ultimately in the eye of the beholder.  I personally never saw any sexual or romantic chemistry between Jane and Michael.  To me it always came off as a cross between dorky best friend & brother vibes.  But then, I've never thought that Jane had off-the-charts romantic chemistry with any of the her various love interests.  Off the available choices I do think that it's best between her and Rafael - but that may be more down to me appreciating the journey his character has taken over the course of the show and feeling that he also deserves a strong HEA.  He's come a long way...but, again, that was the intention of the writers and with me it worked this time.  I was invested in Rafael's story and his journey to be a better person for himself and for those around him.  Michael was a perfectly fine character but there was never really any journey for him, and no independent storyline (from Jane's) that I can recall off the top of my head at the moment.   Even his "death" was an accessory to Jane's story rather than being about him.  He is at the end pretty much how he started out, a nice guy.  Noting wrong with that, just not terribly compelling to me.

Ultimately, it's only the opinions of the writers that counts.  Mine doesn't count either and, believe me, I've experienced the bitterness and sadness and anger over tv relationships that get imploded by the writers.  There's a certain recent revival show that shattered my heart in its finale so I feel your pain, just about a different show.  It sucks and so I'm sorry that you feel let down by this aspect of JTV.

[CooperTV]

This episode's highlights:

Link

Link

Link

[cardigirl]

I did think Rafael tapping himself while waiting to hear about Jane's book was very cute (at the end of the episode).  But all of his BIG emotional moments with Jane just left me cold. 

One show I can think of where the writers went off script (and I might be wrong) was Pacey and Joey in Dawson's Creek, but maybe they were endgame all along too.

[natyxg]

On 7/26/2019 at 2:25 PM, cardigirl said:

I did think Rafael tapping himself while waiting to hear about Jane's book was very cute (at the end of the episode).  But all of his BIG emotional moments with Jane just left me cold. 

One show I can think of where the writers went off script (and I might be wrong) was Pacey and Joey in Dawson's Creek, but maybe they were endgame all along too.

Same. All of it feels meh.

I was pretty disappointed by how they closed up Rose and Luisa. Maybe it's because I've fallen for Bridget after watching Legend of the Seeker some months ago, but I loved seeing her being fabulous and evil one last time. In the last few seasons we've seen so little of her that it just felt like we got glimpses of her when she was just being one note for 3 minutes an episode, so I enjoyed seeing more of her now. But much like Michael's ONE TRUE LOVE, Luisa's whatever happened of screen so seeing her killing her Rose like that felt odd and off, and cheap. I understand intellectually how and why she could have fallen out of love, but we saw very little or nothing, so it just feels off. I did like that Rose loved her till the end, in her own way. It was her one redeeming quality, and in spite of her being evil I kinda wish they had stayed together. Luisa's """"family""""' doesn't really care about her at all and never has, so seeing Jane inviting her to the wedding and that's supposed to be Luisa's big moment and whatever... meh. It was the "right" ending for Villain Rose and Rose/Luisa and Luisa, but it felt flat.

Same with Michael. It was "right" for him to have a "happy" ending which on tv means babies and marriage, but I don't know or care about Charlie (in fact, they went out of their way to make her unpleasant, for some reason), so the whole thing feels wrong. I preferred the Michael that was going to love Jane until his last breath. I preferred the Michael who went out of his way to stop Rose for a freaking long time (and now puff, he has no place in her resolution grr), and if he wasn't going to be with Jane (which I always knew), but they were going to bring him back, he deserved a real place in the show with a new love story that I could care about, and therefore be happy that he found love again (in a believable way). If they didn't have the actor available, then don't do anything, imo. Just let him stay dead. It's not like that story added much to the show. It kind of tanked the first half of the season, actually, in my opinion. So, bringing Michael back one last time just so we could see that now the thing that defined him the most, putting Jane above everything, is gone and they're SO out of love now, wasn't particularly pleasant to watch. I've always known that the endgame was Jane/Rafael, but man did they do Michael and his story with Jane dirty, for no reason (which it the worst part of it all).

I'm wondering what they're doing with Petra. I always assumed she would end up with JR, but I'm starting to wonder if she won't.

What was the deal with saying Rose was 51 and not 38? Is there a reason for that, or was it just a pointless joke?

Edited July 28, 2019 by natyxg

[cardigirl]

 

 

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15 hours ago, natyxg said:

What was the deal with saying Rose was 51 and not 38? Is there a reason for that, or was it just a pointless joke?

There was some speculation that it was a reference to Area 51 where the government supposedly is housing space aliens.   Ha ha. 

[Bouffe]

20 hours ago, natyxg said:

Same with Michael. It was "right" for him to have a "happy" ending which on tv means babies and marriage, but I don't know or care about Charlie (in fact, they went out of their way to make her unpleasant, for some reason), so the whole thing feels wrong. I preferred the Michael that was going to love Jane until his last breath. I preferred the Michael who went out of his way to stop Rose for a freaking long time (and now puff, he has no place in her resolution grr), 

I'd assume they made Charlie very different than Jane to highlight how different Michael now is. He's no longer just Michael, he's this Jason/Michael combo.

As for Michael not having a place in the end of Rose... again I'd have to think the writers did that because Michael is no longer a cop. It was for a very long time THE case for him, but since he no longer works as a cop, does he still care about Rose and the whole thing? I did wish he had some kind of part to play in Rose's demise, but I'm not sure how that would have worked, if at all.

[Simba122504]

On 7/26/2019 at 11:45 AM, rove4 said:

I agree with the original poster, though obviously perceptions vary.  For me, the Jane/Rafael narrative was obvious from the opening scenes of the pilot.  We meet Jane first and then the camera zooms across the city and we meet Rafael.  That was the writers and the show from the get-go shining a neon wattage spotlight on them to say "These are the two to watch."  From that moment on they each had their own plot threads going, sometimes completely independent from each other.  That told me right from square one that this was going to be a story of Jane and Rafael's journey towards each other.  I enjoy Brett Dier (and am happy that his show, Schooled, was renewed because I adore C.B., his character) but I never got invested in the Jane/Michael relationship because I knew it wasn't going to last.  The narrative just was never structured for that to be the case.  I've been burned on too many tv romances in the past to not pay close attention to that sort of stuff now.  

I always noticed that he was the first male character introduced in her story. We get the prologue which introduces Jane, Alba and Xo. Jane is then shown making out with Michael, but there's no introduction or type up. Rogelio is shown on television but Jane nor the audience knows who that is yet. Then we're introduced to Rafael Solano after some romantic stuff is said. Literally through a telenovela. Then we're introduced to Petra, Luisa and finally Rogelio. He's the first person she told her dream aloud to. Also the first time we see a heart glow, it's when she's near Rafael. It's Jane's story first, but he's the other half of the OTP and everything leads back to him. Mateo, her writing, her love of telenovelas and romance novels. 

[CooperTV]

The show made Michael's death about Jane and Rafael (he's the one who is there for her when she finds out about Michael's death), then the show made Michael's funeral about Jane and Rafael (Rafael being Jane's voice when she couldn't speak), the EP framed Michael coming back from the dead as the point of conquering Rafael's fear of being "second choice", and stated that if Jane and Rafael could survive her husband coming back from the dead then they'll survive anything. It was never about Michael as a character, it was about Michael the Plot Device to further the Jafael narrative, yet again. For better or for worse, that's the way it is, it's the show.

I don't think at any point this season the show was deceptive as to what the endgame was supposed to be, nor it was deceptive before that either, imo.

Comparing JtV with Dawson's Creek is a bit unfair. Jennie Urman never at any point changed the outcome of her show, unlike the people who run DC. Urman had a plan and was writing towards it from the beginning.

Edited July 30, 2019 by CooperTV

[natyxg]

8 hours ago, CooperTV said:

The show made Michael's death about Jane and Rafael (he's the one who is there for her when she finds out about Michael's death), then the show made Michael's funeral about Jane and Rafael (Rafael being Jane's voice when she couldn't speak), the EP framed Michael coming back from the dead as the point of conquering Rafael's fear of being "second choice", and stated that if Jane and Rafael could survive her husband coming back from the dead then they'll survive anything. It was never about Michael as a character, it was about Michael the Plot Device to further the Jafael narrative, yet again. For better or for worse, that's the way it is, it's the show.

I don't think at any point this season the show was deceptive as to what the endgame was supposed to be, nor it was deceptive before that either, imo.

Comparing JtV with Dawson's Creek is a bit unfair. Jennie Urman never at any point changed the outcome of her show, unlike the people who run DC. Urman had a plan and was writing towards it from the beginning.

I too think that the endgame was always Jane and Rafael, and I don't think the show was deceptive either. They're the protagonists, of course they're the endgame.

For me, however, the problem was that somewhere in season two they decided to take Jane and Michael seriously. I think that maybe they saw that all the back and forth was tedious and it made Jane seem flaky, so they committed to them fully and let them have their own story... ending with Michael's death. So we saw real love between them, in my opinion, a proper love story that was epic in its own way. Michael also got to be Jane's "first" in many ways, and I found his devotion to her quite touching. I thought killing him off "protected" that love story, as well as Michael's memory, and allowed Jane and Rafael to flourish on their own, not at the expense of destroying Michael himself, and Michael and Jane's love story. I was fine with that.

Fast forward a couple of seasons, and they just went out of their way to do exactly that in a really petty way, and for no reason. They did Michael very dirty and they ruined the last season of the show, for me. Just blegh.

[Simba122504]

9 hours ago, CooperTV said:

The show made Michael's death about Jane and Rafael (he's the one who is there for her when she finds out about Michael's death), then the show made Michael's funeral about Jane and Rafael (Rafael being Jane's voice when she couldn't speak), the EP framed Michael coming back from the dead as the point of conquering Rafael's fear of being "second choice", and stated that if Jane and Rafael could survive her husband coming back from the dead then they'll survive anything. It was never about Michael as a character, it was about Michael the Plot Device to further the Jafael narrative, yet again. For better or for worse, that's the way it is, it's the show.

I don't think at any point this season the show was deceptive as to what the endgame was supposed to be, nor it was deceptive before that either, imo.

Comparing JtV with Dawson's Creek is a bit unfair. Jennie Urman never at any point changed the outcome of her show, unlike the people who run DC. Urman had a plan and was writing towards it from the beginning.

Of course Jane's relationship with Xo and Alba is a big part of the series too. Jane and Rogelio too. But Rafael is that dude. He's the male lead, her muse and romantic hero. The show's words not mine. The series doesn't even exist if his sister doesn't make that medical mistake. *I agree with you, by the way* 

[natyxg]

21 minutes ago, Simba122504 said:

Of course Jane's relationship with Xo and Alba is a big part of the series too. Jane and Rogelio too. But Rafael is that dude. He's the male lead, her muse and romantic hero. The show's words not mine. The series doesn't even exist if his sister doesn't make that medical mistake. *I agree with you, by the way* 

There are two "worlds" in the show:

*Jane's world: Xiomara, Rogelio, Abuela, Mateo, writing stuff, Jane's personal life, etc

*Rafael's world: the Marbella, Petra, Luisa, Rose, the crime story, etc

They're the protagonists, they were the gateways to both worlds. It was always their story... maybe Jane's more than Rafael's, but he still got a pretty long arc, too, where he did a lot of changing and growing.

One loose end that will apparently be left hanging was the whole thing about Rafael being adopted... what was the point of that? It feels like there was some twist or reveal that was left hanging because they forgot about it somewhere in the middle of it all.

[Simba122504]

1 hour ago, natyxg said:

There are two "worlds" in the show:

*Jane's world: Xiomara, Rogelio, Abuela, Mateo, writing stuff, Jane's personal life, etc

*Rafael's world: the Marbella, Petra, Luisa, Rose, the crime story, etc

They're the protagonists, they were the gateways to both worlds. It was always their story... maybe Jane's more than Rafael's, but he still got a pretty long arc, too, where he did a lot of changing and growing.

One loose end that will apparently be left hanging was the whole thing about Rafael being adopted... what was the point of that? It feels like there was some twist or reveal that was left hanging because they forgot about it somewhere in the middle of it all.

I’m so upset with that unresolved subplot. I’ll take Luisa saying she found them. Anything to close it. Don’t make it a big part of the series if you didn’t plan on doing anything with it. I would have preferred he remain Emilio’s biological son and find another way for him to lose his money. Say Emilio made all of his money illegally or never paid the IRS. That’s still soapy.

Edited July 30, 2019 by Simba122504

[natyxg]

3 hours ago, Simba122504 said:

I’m so upset with that unresolved subplot. I’ll take Luisa saying she found them. Anything to close it. Don’t make it a big part of the series if you didn’t plan on doing anything with it. I would have preferred he remain Emilio’s biological son and find another way for him to lose his money. Say Emilio made all of his money illegally or never paid the IRS. That’s still soapy.

I don't even remember that plot enough to know if it will fit, but I'm half expecting the big twist to be that Rose was his mother, and that's why they came out with that stuff about her being 51. But they wouldn't, would they?

[nilyank]

6 hours ago, natyxg said:

Fast forward a couple of seasons, and they just went out of their way to do exactly that in a really petty way, and for no reason. They did Michael very dirty and they ruined the last season of the show, for me. Just blegh.

Jane chose Michael when she married him, but they had to bring him back from the dead just so they could erase that earlier choice and say now and forever that she would choose Rafael over Michael.

There was no need for that, but they did it anyway.

What I loved about this show was Jane and her relationships with her mom, dad, grandmother, Michael and Petra. Loved Rogelio and telenovela antics. Loved Petra. And yes I love the romance between Jane and Michael. I was always indifferent to Rafael's stories unless he was around Petra. 

That first season, I couldn't wait to see each episode. This season has been a chore and the final episode doesn't inspire me to care. It's a shame. 

The fans that will love it, will most likely enjoy every moment. 

Unfortunately, it will all be meh to me.

[CooperTV]

7 hours ago, natyxg said:

They did Michael very dirty and they ruined the last season of the show, for me. Just blegh. 

I have a different take.

In my opinion, they ruined the show in season 2 when they completely erased every single questionable thing Michael did in season 1 to make it look like he was a viable choice for Jane. I do think it was in part because they wanted to prolong the angst, in part because it's Jane POV, and Jane was so hurt by Rafael, she refused to look back at her love for him. At the same time, they still aggressively made J/M about Jafael in season 3 anyway. So I can't say I was ever invested in that relationship that always was undermined by the writing towards Jafael and M/J's own constant marriage squabbles.

I mean Michael obviously wasn't perfect, in my eyes, after all those lying and pressuring Jane to give baby to adoption, to make abortion or to leave her job. The thing is, the show also didn't think he was all that great either, since the writing openly mocks Jane's notions about their relationship this season (and in other seasons as well), symbolically and literally (through Michael, Jason, and Jason-Michael). Their first sex wasn't that great, her first book, the labor of love dedicated to her and Michael's love story, is a giant critical and financial flop, she was actively jealous of Catalina and refuse the admit the obvious during her perfection of a marriage, etc.

[Simba122504]

9 hours ago, natyxg said:

I don't even remember that plot enough to know if it will fit, but I'm half expecting the big twist to be that Rose was his mother, and that's why they came out with that stuff about her being 51. But they wouldn't, would they?

Area 51. Rose is only 14 years older than him and Luisa was her obsession. Rafael is now 37 years old. There are no 13 year olds walking around pregnant on JTV. Rafael was also born in Italy. Rose was the stepdaughter of Rafael’s faux mama. Rose got pregnant at 13 in the early eighties,  somewhere down the line her family leaves Italy for America. Elena happens to come across that same newborn baby in Italy and brings him home, then some years after that, marries Rafael’s birth mother’s father without any of them knowing that. She also fell in love with her son’s sister. Talk about destiny! 😂😂

Edited July 31, 2019 by Simba122504
Missing word

[Simba122504]

19 hours ago, nilyank said:

Jane chose Michael when she married him, but they had to bring him back from the dead just so they could erase that earlier choice and say now and forever that she would choose Rafael over Michael.

There was no need for that, but they did it anyway.

What I loved about this show was Jane and her relationships with her mom, dad, grandmother, Michael and Petra. Loved Rogelio and telenovela antics. Loved Petra. And yes I love the romance between Jane and Michael. I was always indifferent to Rafael's stories unless he was around Petra. 

That first season, I couldn't wait to see each episode. This season has been a chore and the final episode doesn't inspire me to care. It's a shame. 

The fans that will love it, will most likely enjoy every moment. 

Unfortunately, it will all be meh to me.

Rafael was still the male lead and the other half of the OTP even if you didn’t like him, though. They even made Jane’s romantic relationships about him. Same with his romantic relationships. Made them about Jane.  It’s okay that you didn’t like him. The series never gave Michael any history outside of Jane and the Rose case. 

Edited July 31, 2019 by Simba122504
Missing word

[natyxg]

Quote

Jane chose Michael when she married him, but they had to bring him back from the dead just so they could erase that earlier choice and say now and forever that she would choose Rafael over Michael.

Not just erase that choice, but destroy everything related to Michael and Jane as much as they could. They destroy Michael and turn him into a weird hybrid Jane wouldn't even want to be friends with. They make him mock Michael's romanticism. They retcon Michael's decision to leave the force to say now that he did it for Jane (LIES, IIRC), so therefore their marriage would never have worked because of the "lies" and the resentment that would have followed. They even destroyed the importance of Jane's first book by saying that Rogelio made it happen, so even that accomplishment couldn't be tied to her love story with Michael. I'm sure I'm missing stuff. It was petty and brutal, and, at least for me, it had the opposite effect and made me resent Jane/Rafael. Destroying one ship unnecessarily just to prop up another one is not a good look. Michael had been gone for a while, and there was no need. None. Just pettiness.

[natyxg]

Quote

They even made Jane’s romantic relationships about him.

Not all of them,  I don't think. I think the professor and Adam and the telenovela guy were basically about Jane becoming all sexually liberated.

[nilyank]

2 hours ago, natyxg said:

They even destroyed the importance of Jane's first book by saying that Rogelio made it happen, so even that accomplishment couldn't be tied to her love story with Michael. I'm sure I'm missing stuff

Rogelio's and Michael's relationship. Even after Michael regained his memories, the show downplayed how well those two characters interacted with each other. They barely had any scenes together. Sure Jane chose Rafael, but Rogelio adored Michael and grieved his death, but you would barely know that this season.

They even had Rogelio say that he couldn't pick between Michael and Rafael because he care about them both so much. Yes Rogelio grew to care for Rafael and knew how Jane felt about him. But Michael was one of his closest friends apart from whatever relationship Michael had with Jane. Rogelio would have been Team Michael even if he didn't tell Jane how he felt.

[natyxg]

2 minutes ago, nilyank said:

Rogelio's and Michael's relationship. Even after Michael regained his memories, the show downplayed how well those two characters interacted with each other. They barely had any scenes together. Sure Jane chose Rafael, but Rogelio adored Michael and grieved his death, but you would barely know that this season.

VERY TRUE.

[Simba122504]

4 hours ago, natyxg said:

Not all of them,  I don't think. I think the professor and Adam and the telenovela guy were basically about Jane becoming all sexually liberated.

Oh, Yes, they did. I actually noticed this awhile ago. It took awhile to remember it and write it out because I had to think back while writing it.  So if I ever find my old post from another site I’ll PM it to you if you don’t mind. It’s things you wouldn’t really think about when it first happened. It includes all Jane and Rafael’s non J/R romances. 

Edited July 31, 2019 by Simba122504

[SoMuchTV]

Are there not threads for the final episodes? I’d follow up but it’s kind of dusty in here. 

[mrsh]

On 7/25/2019 at 6:13 AM, cardigirl said:

I will always love Michael (before this season) and Brett Dier's performance.  I'm really disappointed that the show decided to take the route it did with his character, but it is what it is.  

I'm also disappointed with the way Rose went out, as I had hoped Michael might have a part to play in capturing her or removing her from Jane's life permanently.  

I think all the actors are fine actors, and I have enjoyed this show a great deal, but I had hoped for a more complex ending than the HEA of Rafael and Jane. I know I am in the minority, but when Jane wed Michael, the creator of the show talked about marriage and what that meant as far as commitment and work and love and so did Gina, so I am very disappointed that they did what they did with the whole "back from the dead" plotline. 

Anyway, one more episode, the narrator will be revealed, and it will be done.  Thanks for 4 good seasons, JTV!  And some amazing characters. 

(sorry, I think I'm a bit bitter.) 

I completely agree with everything you wrote. The first 4 seasons were so good and I guess I just hoped they would go out with a bang and have an amazing 5th season as well. Oh well, it is what it is but the actors are all amazing and I'm glad this show has introduced them to us. I'll remember the first 4 seasons fondly and most likely rewatch them in the future.