Spoiler Discussion Thread: The Final Countdown

[Trini]

47 minutes ago, Trisha said:

That's the stuff I worry about. Moira's death affected Oliver so much and changed his path. If they had the remainder of the season to deal with all the reset implications for the characters (like Supergirl does) I wouldn't mind, but changing the entire course of the show (or at least its major moments) in the final episode without having enough time to fully address it would suck.

Yeah - resetting the whole show at the last minute would be ... a choice.

How is Mia still in the present timeline?? Maybe Barry brings her from the future to attend the funeral?

[Chaser]

I’m assuming the adult Mia is the one from 8x09 though cause she must have her memories. 

[insomniadreams88]

Wasn’t CD spotted around filming time? I wouldn’t be surprised if Tommy’s also alive but they’re keeping his appearance a surprise to have something a secret. 

maybe we’ll get E2 Moira and Tommy (but minus the whole evil stuff) alive again to recall 801 and not erase those deaths. 

but of course we won’t see Walter again because I gave up on seeing him again years ago. 

[Velocity23]

2 minutes ago, Chaser said:

I’m assuming the adult Mia is the one from 8x09 though cause she must have her memories. 

Finale takes place before the spinoff. 

[Chaser]

11 minutes ago, Velocity23 said:

Finale takes place before the spinoff. 

I know. But how can this be current Mia if post Crisis Mia has no memory of her old life. 

[Velocity23]

3 minutes ago, Chaser said:

I know. But how can this be current Mia if post Crisis Mia has no memory of her old life. 

Honestly i did question if they pulling a 100th episode twist with the spinoff. 

[Primal Slayer]

2 minutes ago, Chaser said:

I know. But how can this be current Mia if post Crisis Mia has no memory of her old life. 

To pull out an oldie

Of course "But it's Arrow" 

 

[calliope1975]

2 hours ago, Trisha said:

I’m really not sold on the theory that Oliver’s deal/reset meant bringing his loved ones who died back because it undercuts everything we’ve experienced with this show. Also, where’s Tommy and his dad?

I'll take Moira back anyway I can get her, but I agree wholeheartedly. Moira's death was a brutal, heartrending sacrifice, and it meant something. And while I'm also glad 2040 isn't the hellhole of S8, what was the point then of all those hours I watched? 

It's like they Tony Starked this reset on steroids. I've been thinking about SA saying Arrow ended at the end of S7, and to keep my brain from breaking too much, I think I'll view the next two eps as an AU of an AU. 

[Featherhat]

Unless it's a fantasy of Oliver's I just don't like the combination of the last 7.5 seasons being now AU and the writers not even having to bother coming up with any explanations and everyone potentially getting a happy ending except Oliver, even though the character would obviously take that in a heart beat he deserves better.

We better also be getting an Olicity reunion somehow as well as the rest of his friends and family happy for ever. Without him. He already did his penance for his worst actions. Otherwise instead of Nolan triology-ing the ending they've literally just taken Endgame. 

Edited January 20, 2020 by Featherhat

[Aeryn13]

Okay, I guess I`ll go with the complicated rules of timey wimey shenanigans meaning that everything needs to have happened as it did to even get to the point that it could get changed in the first place. So, the show happened exactly as it happened or else Oliver would have never been the man (or Spectre) who reset the universe at the dawn of time. And memories of that timeline still exist.

The new world he created was a happier one (in places) but it came after and wouldn`t have been created at all if not for the original world. 

Adult!Mia is still around, though? Emiko, I gathered but Moira is a surprise.

Nice that Sara and Barry showed up for the funeral. That`s how it should be. 

Rory? I`ll take it.

Roy and Thea must finally get their happy ever-after. Though is Roy seriously the one-armed archer? I mean it looks like he has an artificial limb and I thought archery would be one thing you need both natural limbs for.  

According to this Felicity is in at least three scenes and I hope to God at least one with Oliver. Give them their freaking happy end on some level.  

[Trisha]

43 minutes ago, calliope1975 said:

I've been thinking about SA saying Arrow ended at the end of S7, and to keep my brain from breaking too much, I think I'll view the next two eps as an AU of an AU. 

Ha -- good plan. I loved 722 so much that I assumed I'd be looking at S8 as an AU, but weirdly once it started airing I ended up liking a lot of S8. I dug the throwbacks and the time Oliver got to spend with his grown kids. Up until the crossover I was pretty much on board, so I'm hoping this doesn't kill my like of the season. But if it does, yeah I'll just think of it like an AU.

18 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

The new world he created was a happier one (in places) but it came after and wouldn`t have been created at all if not for the original world

If they do end up doing a reset, at least Team Arrow should remember the past and everything that happened in the "old" world (Moira's death, Emiko's betrayal, etc), which I think will be easier to swallow than just having everything erased. Still, I'm trying to reserve judgement until I see it, but this feels like a plot twist that should have taken longer than one episode to unfold/allow characters to deal with the repercussions of. 

18 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

According to this Felicity is in at least three scenes and I hope to God at least one with Oliver. Give them their freaking happy end on some level.  

Not sure where they're getting their info, but TV Guide says EBR and SA have scenes. ("It's still unclear how the finale will address Oliver's death, given that Amell is in the finale and sharing scenes with Rickards.") Also, Bamford's "love saved the city" post has us hoping the final scene is with them. 

It's possible that our Mia attends the funeral and then Sara whisks her back to 2040 and uses her memory wiper thingy. But if 8x09 happens after 8x10, and 8x09 confirms Mia never grew up with Oliver, than that kills any hope that the reset somehow brings Oliver back in the present in the finale. The best we can hope for is still the Olicity reunion in 2040 at we saw the beginnings of in 7x22. 

Edited January 20, 2020 by Trisha

[lemotomato]

Maybe I missed something, but why are we thinking reset and not dopplegangers from other Earths like we've ready seen happen in Supergirl?

[shantown]

All this post-crisis confusion and resetting and new world would be a lot to deal with in one episode, let alone the series finale... and the whole thing just makes me resent the backdoor pilot even more for taking up an entire episode needed to actually end Arrow (and for adding even more convoluted confusion). Blah. 

[Primal Slayer]

5 minutes ago, shantown said:

All this post-crisis confusion and resetting and new world would be a lot to deal with in one episode, let alone the series finale... and the whole thing just makes me resent the backdoor pilot even more for taking up an entire episode needed to actually end Arrow (and for adding even more convoluted confusion). Blah. 

If they didnt have the backdoor pilot than we'd just jump straight to the finale.

[Trisha]

8 minutes ago, lemotomato said:

Maybe I missed something, but why are we thinking reset and not dopplegangers from other Earths like we've ready seen happen in Supergirl?

We're not sure but we already know there was some sort of reset of the Arrow universe (i.e. Baby Sara), plus if Moira and Emiko were dopplegangers from other Earths they probably wouldn't be shedding a tear at our Oliver's funeral. Though Supergirl is a mix of reset and dopplegangers so Arrow might be too. 

[apinknightmare]

2 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

If they didnt have the backdoor pilot than we'd just jump straight to the finale.

Not necessarily. We'd just have another episode without Oliver.

[insomniadreams88]

We should have gotten 6 episodes pre-Crisis, then the backdoor pilot and two present-day episodes post-Crisis to detail the changes. 

[lemotomato]

6 minutes ago, Trisha said:

We're not sure but we already know there was some sort of reset of the Arrow universe (i.e. Baby Sara), plus if Moira and Emiko were dopplegangers from other Earths they probably wouldn't be shedding a tear at our Oliver's funeral. Though Supergirl is a mix of reset and dopplegangers so Arrow might be too. 

Not necessarily. Oliver cared about E2 Tommy and Moira when he was there in 801, even though he knew they were dopplegangers. I don't think it's a stretch that they would feel the same way about him. At the very least, it makes sense that they would go to his memorial to pay their respects, especially if they knew he was the one that saved the world.

[Primal Slayer]

E2 Moira still felt that E1 Oliver was her son. She didnt know he was the doppelganger but both of them still had a connection. Same would be for these doppelgangers, especially if their world is lost to them. IF they go that route...which is the worst one to go imo.

[Trisha]

30 minutes ago, lemotomato said:

Not necessarily. Oliver cared about E2 Tommy and Moira when he was there in 801, even though he knew they were dopplegangers. I don't think it's a stretch that they would feel the same way about him. At the very least, it makes sense that they would go to his memorial to pay their respects, especially if they knew he was the one that saved the world.

I guess that's possible. The photo of Moira holding onto William made me think that they knew each other -- unless she knows *her* William from E2. I honestly don't know what I'd prefer: a bunch of dopplegangers from different Earths trying to integrate into our existing team, or the existing team dynamics being totally re-written with some people remembering the way it used to be. 

[Guest]

It feels weird to say I missed Felicity a lot seeing as I haven't watched a single episode of S8 but I did, goddammit! Those pics were like a breath of fresh air.

Not sure what to make of everything though tbh. Why is grown Mia at his funeral? And Moira is alive? So did they just erase one of the most powerful moments on the show (Moira's death in S2) or is she from another earth? But if she is from another earth, doesn't that reset E1 Moira's story? I AM CONFUSION. 

IDK. Doppelgängers or not, I'm not sure I like that. I don't mind resetting the future because that was awful but the past too? If that is what has happened, I have no idea. 😂

[Primal Slayer]

They really wanted that Team Arrow Unlimited shot....every member reunited.

[lemotomato]

This does not sound like an endorsement. 

[Chaser]

I just finished listening to a podcast Kat did back in December. The host asked her about upcoming stuff. She mentioned the backdoor pilot and said if that doesn’t work out she has some other things going on. I just don’t get the impression she has a lot of confidence in what they are doing. 

[Featherhat]

6 hours ago, Aeryn13 said:

According to this Felicity is in at least three scenes and I hope to God at least one with Oliver. Give them their freaking happy end on some level.  

I'm assuming there is still something with them, probably something to do with the portal, but so many dead characters came (potentially) back to life I thought they might do a sweet flashback scene and call it a happy ending for them because Oliver would undoubtedly sacrifice himself forever to have these characters live a safe existence in the new Star City and the "see you in the afterlife (but no onscreen)" would be implied.

I assume grown Mia is there somehow to deliver Oliver's message to Felicity how or why probably has something to do with Sara or Barry. 

The thing with Moira and William for example is that is should be a powerful story of a wealthy woman who "loved" her grandson on a personal level but robbed him and her own son of the chance to know each other and for Oliver to take responsibility and become a decent father a decade earlier due to appearances but was confronted about how fucked up that was in S4-6. But if that's all smoothed over with an Oliver reset and we never see it onscreen. Emiko and Moira? Giant cop out even though I'm willing to handwave some characters: *all of them*?. 

Doppelgangers still take out the power of those deaths for everyone. Hell, why not just stop Rebecca Merlyn from being murdered by Brick and have done with it? Because that's the ground Zero event as far as well know for all the shit happening. Argh, this is going to be a mess. So whilst it's a mess, *have Oliver some sort of alive and happy in the final scene* Please.

I know I should feel excited about so many great characters being back however it happens but so many just made me feel completely meh about the episode. 

1 hour ago, Chaser said:

I just finished listening to a podcast Kat did back in December. The host asked her about upcoming stuff. She mentioned the backdoor pilot and said if that doesn’t work out she has some other things going on. I just don’t get the impression she has a lot of confidence in what they are doing. 

Well she's been quite in demand since Shadowhunters finished so I'm sure she'll be more than fine if it doesn't get picked up just as a fact but if you believe paparazzi reports the pilot shooting was not smooth sailing so...

As for Laura Hurley I often agree with her and that's not a ringing endorsement. There's some things I might wish were just a big dream sequence? Arrow has a lot of those. I still hope I enjoy this and I want to see the further adventures of William and Mia, possibly the Diggle boys if things aren't completely annoying with a personality and love triangle switch, adult Zoe and possible Sara Diggle but not the Canaries. And there are others in the fandom that feel the complete opposite vis a vie characters so...

Edited January 21, 2020 by Featherhat

[Primal Slayer]

1 hour ago, Chaser said:

I just finished listening to a podcast Kat did back in December. The host asked her about upcoming stuff. She mentioned the backdoor pilot and said if that doesn’t work out she has some other things going on. I just don’t get the impression she has a lot of confidence in what they are doing. 

I think she's smart enough not to put all of her hopes into something that may not work. A lot of actors do it.

[Trisha]

This sounds more positive 

 

[Chaser]

13 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

I think she's smart enough not to put all of her hopes into something that may not work. A lot of actors do it.

I agree. I don’t think there is anything wrong or inherently negative about what she said but she could have put more enthusiasm in the pilot mention. 

[Josh371982]

10 hours ago, Chaser said:

I just finished listening to a podcast Kat did back in December. The host asked her about upcoming stuff. She mentioned the backdoor pilot and said if that doesn’t work out she has some other things going on. I just don’t get the impression she has a lot of confidence in what they are doing. 

LOL Kat Like Myself probably doesnt understand why they are trying for a Spinoff with Her, KC and JH as leads when her, BL and JDJ could be the leads instead. It just makes more sense but JMO

[Velocity23]

 

[tv echo]

17 hours ago, Trisha said:

Not sure where they're getting their info, but TV Guide says EBR and SA have scenes. ("It's still unclear how the finale will address Oliver's death, given that Amell is in the finale and sharing scenes with Rickards.") Also, Bamford's "love saved the city" post has us hoping the final scene is with them. 

TV Guide has apparently edited their article - it now reads:

Quote

Official photos from the series finale dropped today, and we didn't realize how much we missed her until now. We last saw Felicity in the Season 7 finale stepping into a portal with The Monitor (LaMonica Garrett), seemingly to reunite with her dead husband Oliver Queen (Stephen Amell). Based on these photos, their reunion is probably going to be an emotional one. It's still unclear how the finale will address Oliver's death, given that Amell is in the finale.

FYI, from that same TV Guide article:

Quote

Rickards joined the cast of Arrow in what was supposed to be a one-off role, but her natural charm and chemistry with Amell earned her a recurring role, and she was eventually bumped up to a series regular. By the time she departed the show, she'd become so integral to the DNA of the show that her decision to exit before the final season had us worried how Arrow would function without a very important puzzle piece. Luckily, Arrow has thrived in its final season, despite losing such a major character. Nevertheless, we're more than ready to see Felicity Smoak again after her absence this year!

Other source links for 810 promo pics...
https://www.cwtvpr.com/the-cw/shows/arrow/photos?page=1&show=arrow&season=8
https://ew.com/tv/2020/01/20/arrow-series-finale-photos-emily-bett-rickards-felicity/
http://www.greenarrowtv.com/arrow-series-finale-photos-fadeout/
https://www.spoilertv.com/2020/01/arrow-episode-810-fadeout-series-finale.html
https://www.tvguide.com/news/arrow-season-8-emily-bett-rickards-photo-series-finale/
https://tvline.com/gallery/arrow-season-8-photos-final-season/

Edited January 21, 2020 by tv echo

[tv echo]

The fact that they shot a new S1 flashback for the finale means that SA could be in 810 and still be dead dead (now I have no idea what's going to happen in the finale and how they'll square it with the end of 722) - ugh...

Arrow's Series Finale Will Flashback to Season 1
By Jesse Schedeen  Posted: 20 Jan 2020 
https://www.ign.com/articles/arrow-series-finale-season-8-episode-10-flashback

Quote

"We always had a plan in that we knew that [during] Crisis, Oliver would die," he said. "We knew that the series finale would be essentially like a coda... a sort of an epilogue. We knew a variety of different elements to the finale, but one thing we didn't have was what I called a central theme. We didn't have this principle that would tie together all the elements that we had already planned upon."

Guggenheim continued, "I was in the editing room one day; I'm watching the latest cut, and of course, it begins as almost all the Arrow episodes do, and for the umpteenth bajillionth the time, I hear Stephen [Amell] say, 'I returned home with only one goal, to save my city,' and it just all clicked for me in that moment. I realized, oh, that's the central principle of the finale: Oliver achieves his mission. He saved the city. He actually saved the universe. Once Beth and I had that, that was the central rubric to organize the whole finale around. It's an unconventional finale because we kill off our protagonist two episodes before the actual finale, but at the end of the day, it felt just really appropriate."
*  *  *
Guggenheim even revealed a new detail about "Fadeout," telling us the episode will bring back the flashback scenes one last time and explore a previously untold story set during the early days of Season 1. While it's unclear how or even if Oliver will appear in the present, at least the flashbacks will give Amell one final opportunity to explore his character's journey in the Arrowverse.

"We're going to honor the flashback convention of the show by flashing back to events in very early in Season 1, and what's nice about that is it brings everything full circle," said Guggenheim. "I'm really proud of it. It was a really enjoyable script to write, for Beth and I to write. James Bamford just killed it, and all the actors brought their A-game. I'm looking forward to everyone checking it out."

Edited January 21, 2020 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Edited January 21, 2020 by tv echo

[tv echo]

I'm so confused by the 810 promo pics - whatever, it's great to see EBR back...

Edited January 21, 2020 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Per IMDb, 810 guest cast also includes David Nykl as Anatoly...
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt9700192/fullcredits?ref_=tt_cl_sm#cast

Edited January 21, 2020 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Edited January 21, 2020 by tv echo

[Trisha]

 

[tv echo]

Katie Cassidy and Juliana Harkavy Invite Margot Robbie to Join 'Green Arrow and the Canaries' (Exclusive)
Leanne Aguilera   January 21, 2020
https://www.etonline.com/katie-cassidy-and-juliana-harkavy-invite-margot-robbie-to-join-green-arrow-and-the-canaries-139945 

Quote

"It was amazing!" Cassidy gushed when asked about filming this female-centric super series. "What's nice about it is it feels fresh but it still has the same esthetic and it still lives in the same world. The episode, the show -- it just takes it to another level. It elevates things in a way and it was fun, especially for our characters and what they've gone through to get to this point."

"Just women kicking a** and a lot of action -- and it's definitely a time for that. It's incredible and I love it," Cassidy added with a smile.
*  *  *
One of the things we at ET were excited about was surprising Cassidy and Harkavy with a special "fan question" courtesy of their MIA co-star. (Pun totally intended!) McNamara was not able to join our interview in Los Angeles as she is currently filming another project, but she did send in a video asking her Canary co-stars to reveal their favorite part of filming this episode.

"I think the moments when we were all together in costume after we had accomplished our things -- I'm not going to give anything away," Harkavy teased. "But we were just together, as a group, as a team and just feeling that energy of all of us together and our power and knowing that we have this whole future ahead of us."

Speaking of the future, there's one DC Comics crossover that Harkavy and Cassidy would absolutely love to make happen: Bringing any of the big-screen Birds of Prey stars on for an episode!
*  *  *
"All of the actors [and] Margot Robbie, you are invited to come into our show," Cassidy proclaimed. "If you want to come and maybe do a little cameo, we would totally be fine with that."

"Oh, please!" Harkavy immediately echoed. "Yes, please! Any of those girls. That would be so fun!"

Harkavy continued, "It's a cool thing that [both of these projects] are happening at the same time because one of the themes of our show and the way that we interpret the comic book story is that -- especially with our characters -- there can be more than one Canary. It's not about there is one Black Canary. It's like, any woman can be the Black Canary. It's about [heart] and it's about your integrity and it's about your inner strength. So I think it's kind of cool because it kind of sets that standard on a bigger level with our characters."

In addition - transcribed from the same video that's in the above article (KC did most of the talking, while JH said very little, except when asked a direct question)...

'Green Arrow & the Canaries': Katie Cassidy and Juliana Harkavy Spill Everything to Know (Exclusive) [VIDEO]
Leanne Aguilera   January 21, 2020
https://www.etonline.com/media/videos/green-arrow-the-canaries-katie-cassidy-and-juliana-harkavy-spill-everything-to-know 

-- KC: "The episode, the show -- it just takes it to another level. It elevates things in a way and it was fun, especially like for our characters, um, you know, what they've gone through to get to this point, where they're at, and their reasoning why and discovering, you know, for Laurel, uh, Earth-2, learning more about her - her, um, her background. We know a little bit, not a lot. Um, and just, you know, women kicking ass."

-- On what to expect in 809, KC: "Expect the unexpected... You see many different versions of people. Can I say that? ... Without giving away too much information, you'll see a lot of characters who - fan favorites, and you'll see them grow and be in different positions than maybe you thought... It's Arrow with a twist... And then at the end, you're like, 'What?' What! What?" ET's Leanne Aguilera: "I will say, having seen this first episode, yes, there's a final scene in this - I'm not going to spoil it for you guys - but oh my goodness gracious! It really just ties everything up and leaves you wanting more."

-- JH: "I want music to be a big part of this show, personally, 'cause actually all of us can sing and play music."

-- In response to KM's question (via video) of their favorite part of filming 809, KC: "There's a scene, um, where we enter - I don't want to give any spoilers away but  - a certain location. Um, and the three of us... basically, I have this long monologue and I basically take a glass. And the moment she realiz - Mia realizes, you know, she's (Makes surprised expression and gesture) - she catches the glass as I'm testing her, and she's like, 'holy sh*t... I am -' - she has these skills, um, already in - that already live within her. And so she starts to realize that this is the world that she sort of starts to step into. But what was really cool about this scene - also the last scene where we clink glasses - but what was really cool about this scene was - we couldn't, we were struggling to find it, but what was awesome is, again, it was a collaboration... (ET's Leanne Aguilera points out promo pic of JH, KC and KM having drinks together) That scene at the end was also where we were sort of coming together at that moment. The other one was, like, we were collaborating and, you know, even the director and Beth, and like trying to just and figure it out. And we did and it was awesome."

-- On which characters from the Arrowverse or DC Comics they would like to see appear in this 2040 series, KC: "Oh, Oliver Queen!" JH: "Oliver Queen." ET's Leanne Aguilera: "How?" KC: "Well, I can't tell you. I'm just saying, maybe there's -." JH: "There's still Green Arrow and the Canaries." KC: "Who knows? ... I mean, anything is possible in this world, in this universe."

-- JH: "There is no Arrowverse anymore. There's all of us together, so anyone from any one of these worlds - I mean, look... I would love to have, like - 'cause Harley Quinn is Birds of Prey, right? So what if we had the Joker on our show?" KC: "Who says the Joker has to be a male? By the way, why can't I play the Joker one day? ... Hello, the white hair! A little messy mascara and I'm there."

Edited January 21, 2020 by tv echo

[Trisha]

JJ is Mia's fiancee, Zoe is back, and William is still fabulous (and trying to recruit his sister to Smoak Tech):

 

[way2interested]

Lol, Laura Hurley was right. That felt like a dream sequence. And lol for the 2nd to last time of being right for these "surprises" of Zoe being back and Mia being engaged to JJ.

[Velocity23]

16 minutes ago, tv echo said:

 

-- On which characters from the Arrowverse or DC Comics they would like to see appear in this 2040 series, KC: "Oh, Oliver Queen!" JH: "Oliver Queen." ET's Leanne Aguilera: "How?" KC: "Well, I can't tell you. I'm just saying, maybe there's -." JH: "There's still Green Arrow and the Canaries." KC: "Who knows? ... I mean, anything is possible in this world, in this universe."

 

This is the most embarassing answer they could have given while spouting girl power, who needs men,  while at the same time diminishing the role of Kat McNamara as the Green Arrow. 

[tv echo]

Katherine McNamara Previews 'Arrow's New Mia in Post-Crisis Star City 2040
Meredith Jacobs January 21, 2020
https://www.tvinsider.com/849968/katherine-mcnamara-green-arrow-and-the-canaries-preview-mia-smoak-queen/ 

Quote

Mia has everything she could have ever wanted. But is that only true for the Mia she is in the post-Crisis world? How does it line up with what the Mia we got to know before Crisis wanted?
Katherine McNamara: That's what's been so interesting about figuring out this new version of Mia with this new reality. She's still the same girl at her core. She's still raised by Felicity. She still has her same values and her same sensibility, but with a completely different set of circumstances.
*  *  *
This Mia didn't grow up as a fighter. She didn't grow up in the harsh, broken Star City. She grew up in a perfect version of Star City, having the mantle of being the daughter of the Green Arrow and having her father save the world and save the city and the honor and the responsibility that comes with that — and the notoriety that comes with that. She is a bit of socialite and a bit of a celebrity in that sense, and so she's lived a very public life, a very privileged life.

She's still the same smart, cutting girl that we know, but she's a little lost. She's never found anything in this life that makes her passionate and that brings that spark that we've seen in her before. It's really interesting to see her come to this precipice in her life and wonder where to go.
*  *  *
What are this Mia's relationships with Felicity and William like?
We really only see her relationship with William in this episode, and it's lovely to see because the two of them got to grow up in the same world as a family. In Season 8 of Arrow, we've really gotten to see their relationship grow as they've confronted their relationship with their father and gotten through the struggle of facing losing him.

And we see a very similar relationship in this episode, except that it's a bit of a different Mia. As the episode continues, it grows in such a beautiful way. She is very close with her brother and very protective of him and very proud of him. It's a very sweet relationship, and it's so fun to play.
*  *  *
Mia gets the memories of her life – and her father — before Crisis back. What does that mean to her, especially when she's going to be suiting up and she has that memory of him giving her that suit? 
That's a huge bout of trauma that hits Mia like a ton of bricks. She's been raised in this perfect world and hasn't known much loss or much trauma or sadness other than the fact that she never really knew her father. Then to suddenly be hit with the rush of all of the loss and trauma and the sacrifice and everything that she went through in these past couple seasons, it suddenly reinforms everything and she has these two realities living within her, both of which she's fully emotionally attached to, given that she's lived them both.

Particularly when it comes to the suit, it's a huge hurdle that she faces because her father gave her the suit, which is one of the biggest honors and biggest privileges that she's ever received, but the first and last time she ever wore it is when she lost him and when she watched the life leave his eyes. It's a big step that she has to overcome.
*  *  *
Laurel and Dinah show up in Mia's life in 2040, so what's that dynamic like? They also have two sets of memories. 
Exactly. It's tempestuous at best, given that Mia had what in her mind from everything she knew to be a perfect life. And then all of a sudden, these women show up and throw a monkey wrench into everything, into all of her plans, into all of her relationships, and Mia's left to pick up the pieces and try and protect what and who she can and try and make the best choice she possibly can. It's definitely not without the fair share of words exchanged.

We saw that a bit in Season 7 when Mia and Dinah first crossed paths. Is the dynamic going to be similar to that?
There are definitely shades of that, but in a slightly different way.
*  *  *
Deathstroke is once again a threat, but what can you say about who's under the mask and how this version of the villain compares to others we've seen? Mia's dealt with a couple already.
It's true. I can't say too much as to who's under the mask at this point, but Deathstroke is always a threat and is as much of a threat as ever in this world.

We spent a season watching the future team bonding and working together — and suffering a big loss in Zoe. Will we see that team's dynamic continue in some form?
We see parts of the team in some form, yes. Obviously William is a huge part of Mia's life, but he has his own ventures in this new world. So does everyone else. It's a different dynamic, but you do get glimpses at it.
*  *  *
It looks like Mia's wearing an engagement ring. Is that what it looks like and what's her personal life like?
Her personal life is very different than the Mia we know and love. What Mia has that our original Mia didn't have is social skills and social graces and the ability to connect with people and really build those bonds that our Mia didn't have the skillset for.

How do those social skills inform the hero she's going to be when she suits up with Laurel and Dinah?
It really expands her skillset. Our original Mia would punch her way out of any situation before trying anything else. This Mia is able to solve problems that would otherwise have become bigger problems in a very different way. She has a whole other set of tools at her disposal now and can really roll with the punches, as it were, of whatever situation she's thrown into. So it really does make her quite a bit more adept.

Edited January 21, 2020 by tv echo

[Featherhat]

So the JJ speculation was right. Meh. I like CB as an actor but this is just to show that the timeline is completely different and the shock for us and then for her when she remembers JJ as Deathstroke. I'm glad Zoe is definitely back. 

27 minutes ago, Velocity23 said:

This is the most embarassing answer they could have given while spouting girl power, who needs men,  while at the same time diminishing the role of Kat McNamara as the Green Arrow. 

Yeah out of anyone you could potentially get in the Arrowverse and anyone very theoretically in DC comics you pick the character who has just passed on his mantle to his daughter who is you co-star. Right. You guys already HAVE a Green Arrow! What about a LOT visit or Batwoman if you want to keep it Arrowverse.

Well I guess he's possible as SA seems open to guest staring and it's another tick in the "not completely dead column" at least. 

It seems that pro Canary reviewers are more excited than the other half of the fandom they want to grab as well. 

[Velocity23]

1 minute ago, Featherhat said:

So the JJ speculation was right. Meh. I like CB as an actor but this is just to show that the timeline is completely different and the shock for us and then for her when she remembers JJ as Deathstroke. I'm glad Zoe is definitely back. 

Yeah out of anyone you could potentially get in the Arrowverse and anyone very theoretically in DC comics you pick the character who has just passed on his mantle to his daughter who is you co-star. Right. You guys already HAVE a Green Arrow! What about a LOT visit or Batwoman if you want to keep it Arrowverse.

Well I guess he's possible as SA seems open to guest staring and it's another tick in the "not completely dead column" at least. 

It seems that pro Canary reviewers are more excited than the other half of the fandom they want to grab as well. 

I am not sure SA will return to this spinoff. Especially how he experienced the last crossover. 

[Chris24601]

26 minutes ago, way2interested said:

Lol, Laura Hurley was right. That felt like a dream sequence. And lol for the 2nd to last time of being right for these "surprises" of Zoe being back and Mia being engaged to JJ.

Definitely the calm before the storm there.

Gotta establish a status quo before you go and disrupt it with your inciting incident (i.e. some version of Laurel shows up and uploads Mia's pre-Crisis memories).

So, calling it now that Connor is definitely Deathstroke in this version (because *so dramatic*), which probably means he never got adopted by the Diggles so at least it dodges the icky "torn between two brothers" trope when Mia is inevitably drawn to him.

Also, poor William loses at love in every reality, but is still successful only this time as someone high enough up in MamaSmoak's corporation to just hand out jobs to his sister. He is SO going to be Mia's Tech Guy. I'll also predict that Mia ultimately takes the job at Smoaktech as part of covering for her new gig (and 50/50 odds she breaks it off with JJ too).

Zoe says she's "crashing" with them so I'm guessing that means she's NOT living in Star City these days and so won't be a regular in anything going forward. I'm also betting her dad isn't mayor in this timeline either so that conveniently writes out his need to show up save for guest spots too.

From the way KM is describing Mia it really sounds like the Canaries are basically baggage for the concept with Laurel's main use being giving Mia her Pre-Crisis memories. I definitely do NOT see how they keep TWO Canaries relevant in this.

[tv echo]

Ha, ha - "Mia is very much her own entity, as the Green Arrow, but the Green Arrow always has her team...."

Katherine McNamara on ‘Arrow’, Continuing the Green Arrow’s Legacy & Spinoff Potential
BY CHRISTINA RADISH      JANUARY 21, 2020
https://collider.com/arrow-katherine-mcnamara-interview/

Quote

Collider: You’ve gone on quite a journey now with Mia, over the course of your time on Arrow. What do you love most about her, as a character, and the journey that you’ve taken with her, from starting the show, to doing the crossover, to now doing this episode as a pilot for Green Arrow and the Canaries, to seeing where she could go in the future? What do you love most about where you’ve gotten to go with her?
KATHERINE McNAMARA: What I love most about Mia is that she has this lovely bouncing back and forth between her strength and her vulnerability. She definitely has both sides because she is so fiercely loyal to the people that she loves and so committed to all of her relationships, whether or not she will admit it, depending on the version of Mia that we’re looking at. But it brings so many different colors and so many different elements to things. It allows for a lot of growth and a lot of conflict. As an actor, that’s all I can really ask for.

Is she a character that you immediately felt attached to, or have you become more attached to her?
McNAMARA: She was someone that I was really excited to dissect, in a sense. She does have such a hard shell, but there’s so much to mine out of her character, given her parents and how deep their characters’ relationship is. And then, with old Mia’s past and new Mia’s past, and having them both play, at the same time, it really gives so much to do and so many opportunities for different colors and directions, and different interactions with characters.

You’ve previously told me that there was always this idea of a possible spin-off, but that you try not to get too excited about things until they’re actually real. So, when you found out about this episode and that it would be a set-up for a possible spin-off, what was your reaction to what it would be and to where the character would go?
McNAMARA: I was excited to get to continue Mia’s story and to continue Oliver’s legacy, in a sense. Especially after having been through the crossover, it really made me feel such a part of the world, and I really got to see it from so many different perspectives, going from set to set and interacting with all of the other characters. It makes it exciting to carry it forward and see where it can go, especially given all that it informs. It’s been a really interesting journey and a really fun collaboration with (episode writers) Marc [Guggenheim] and Beth [Schwartz] and Oscar [Balderrama] and Jill [Blankship], and the whole creative team, to figure out this dual reality and memories, and this new 2040, and what that means for Mia. It’s been a real joy to work with everyone on that.

Along the way, had there ever been any other possible spin-off ideas discussed with you, or was this script the first time that a real idea was brought to you?
McNAMARA: It did change quite a bit. There were a lot of different iterations and a lot of changes that happened, throughout the process, but that’s why the team is so great. They’ve been doing this for so long. Even just shooting the episode between the crossover and the series finale of Arrow, we could not have accomplished this without the Arrow family, from the writers to the production team up in Vancouver, to everyone in the cast and crew. Every single person has done this for so long, with such expertise, that they really came together to create something special, and I’m so grateful for that.

Can you talk about working with the director of this episode, Tara Miele, and what brought to the episode?
McNAMARA: She was so wonderful. She really brought this sense of excitement and passion, and also understanding. She’s worked in the Arrow-verse quite a bit, and we had a lot of discussions about balancing the different versions of Mia. For me, the most fun of this set-up is the fact that there are two almost conflicting versions of the character because she has two realities in her head that are both valid, both of which she has an emotional attachment to. It’s really interesting to see those interplay with each other and to find those moments to see which version of Mia will come into play.

The description of the episode says that this Mia in 2040 has everything she could have ever wanted. What does that mean? Who is this Mia and what is she doing, when we meet her in this episode?
McNAMARA: Well, in this episode, we see me graduating college and reaching some milestones in her life that forced her to make choices, and to really take a look at her life, and have to make a decision, as to what direction she wants to take, what she wants to do, and the kind of person she wants to be. And what we see as a woman who is the same smart, cunning, cutting, strong character that we’ve come to know and love, but with perspective that she really hasn’t known much tragedy or much sadness in her life. What that brings is a very happy young woman who maybe doesn’t have a passion yet. She doesn’t have that thing that brings her that spark. Having the information that we have as an audience, we all know what that passion is going to be.

It also seems like this episode is going to be a bit of an origin story of sorts, for her transformation into the Green Arrow. Why does she hesitate, when it comes to taking that on, and what does it take to push her to be willing to step into that role?
McNAMARA: Having grown up as the daughter of the Green Arrow, she’s seen all of the amazing things that her father accomplished, in both realities. It was never something that she thought of herself as, until she got all of these memories that, and once she remembered not only the responsibility and the joy of being a hero, she also remembers the sacrifice and the loss and the trauma that comes with it, and how, more than anything, the first and last time she wore the Green Arrow suit that her father gave her, she lost him and she couldn’t save him. In her eyes, she failed. She does not feel as though she’s worthy to take on that mantle, or that she’s ready, in any sense. She wanted more time with her father. She needed more time, to not only get to know him, but to learn what it means to be a hero, in that sense. Especially now that she hasn’t trained in awhile and doesn’t necessarily remember everything that she was doing before, she’s very hesitant to take that up. It’s a huge hurdle that she has to overcome. But ultimately it’s the responsibility of being a hero and the mantle that her father left her with that pushes her to take that risk.

I love that, in the photos for the episode, we get to see the trio of Mia, Laurel and Dinah in their crime fighting costumes, but at the same time, we also see them in some very stylish outfits, which gives off a very Charlie’s Angels vibe. What is the dynamic like between the three of you guys, in this episode?
McNAMARA: At this point, it’s certainly tempestuous, at best, given that Mia, in her mind, has what’s a pretty perfect life, and then these two women show up and throw a complete monkey wrench into all of her plans and all of her relationships. Everything that she thought her life was going to be is suddenly upturned. Everything changes far too quickly for her to keep up with. Mia and Laurel, and Mia and Dinah have definitely had differences of opinion in the past, and that doesn’t change.

What have you enjoyed most about getting to work with Katie Cassidy and Juliana Harkavy, and what is your relationship dynamic like with them, in comparison to the way the characters act with each other?
McNAMARA: Oh, it’s so much fun. They’re so wonderful. It’s great to get to have these three different characters that can interact. Mia is very much her own entity, as the Green Arrow, but the Green Arrow always has her team, so getting to interact with those two is always so much fun.

Edited January 21, 2020 by tv echo

[way2interested]

12 minutes ago, Chris24601 said:

From the way KM is describing Mia it really sounds like the Canaries are basically baggage for the concept with Laurel's main use being giving Mia her Pre-Crisis memories. I definitely do NOT see how they keep TWO Canaries relevant in this.

Apparently, they tie-in a mystery as to why one of them (Laurel, I'm guessing) is in 2040 connected to preventing something bad from happening, so that's something for them, but yeah, hilariously not connected to Mia (at least according to KM) other than teamwork! and girlpower! 

[Primal Slayer]

Oliver is a boring question but doesnt seem to be anything against KM/Mia, especially when neither have interacted with no one outside of Arrow cast for the most part. If this gets picked up, it'll be interesting to see what DC characters they do bring in, will they try to focus more on the "future" DC characters? Or adapt them for a new timeline? 

[Trisha]

12 minutes ago, Chris24601 said:

Zoe says she's "crashing" with them so I'm guessing that means she's NOT living in Star City these days and so won't be a regular in anything going forward. I'm also betting her dad isn't mayor in this timeline either so that conveniently writes out his need to show up save for guest spots too.

From the way KM is describing Mia it really sounds like the Canaries are basically baggage for the concept with Laurel's main use being giving Mia her Pre-Crisis memories. I definitely do NOT see how they keep TWO Canaries relevant in this.

I took Zoe saying she was "crashing" as just that she was crashing Mia's (graduation? engagement?) party. I hope she's a regular if they go forward.

If they're keeping the FTA characters and establishing a love triangle between brothers, I have no idea how relevant the two Canaries are going to be. The love triangle angle feels very CW a la The Vampire Diaries, but on that show the older characters definitely took a back seat and were more in a support role. Fingers crossed! 

In any case, it's fun to watch KM, KC and JH all try to sell different versions of the show in the press. It almost makes me want it to get picked up, just to see how much messier it's going to get.

[apinknightmare]

6 minutes ago, Trisha said:

I took Zoe saying she was "crashing" as just that she was crashing Mia's (graduation? engagement?) party. I hope she's a regular if they go forward.

It has to be her graduation party since William mentioned her having a seat at Smoak Tech. And I took it to mean she as crashing the party too.