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Spoiler Discussion Thread: The Final Countdown

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The final season gets a fresh spoiler thread.

Things to remember:

  • This topic is for spoiler discussion of Arrow only
  • This topic is NOT for complaining/rehashing past seasons/episodes
  • This topic is NOT for discussion of other shows in the overall Arrowverse EXCEPT for Arrow specific crossover discussion.
  • When talk moves from spoiler-talk to non-spoiler character or relationship talk, take your reply to the appropriate character or relationship thread.

If you want to discuss the Crisis On Infinite Earths crossover more generally you may do so here. Make sure to read and follow the thread rules.

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This is the second time he's mentioned Sarah (he also said at the fan con last weekend that he wanted her back for S8). I'm assuming he means White Canary Sara and not Baby Sarah. Is this a hint about next season? LoT isn't coming back until midseason and Arrow is probably filming from July-Oct, so I guess Caity Lotz could theoretically do it.

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He probably means Sarah, the girl who's come to the last 2 SDCCs where he gave her his necklace in 2017 and his s1 bow in 2018 for her to "return" them the next year she comes back after continuing her fight with cancer

Edited by way2interested
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6 hours ago, Trisha said:

This is the second time he's mentioned Sarah (he also said at the fan con last weekend that he wanted her back for S8). I'm assuming he means White Canary Sara and not Baby Sarah. Is this a hint about next season? LoT isn't coming back until midseason and Arrow is probably filming from July-Oct, so I guess Caity Lotz could theoretically do it.

Legends films July 15-January 29th. Are we sure CL's character is who he's talking about?

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Amell did say that Sara was his favorite Canary but here he's referring to the little girl Sarah. If he meant Caity he'd say Caity.

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With not his bunker and seeing the bunker a lot, I'd assume it's because it would probably be in the present and future storyline, but no idea on the punching.

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Maybe the bunker is where he and the Monitor always end up when they travel to a different Earth because it's a cheap standing set  it's a familiar place for him. And then used by Connor and William and Mia ( assuming they're around) in the future. Then whatever they have to tie up in Star City 2019.

I know he was talking about a fan previously but it wouldn't surprise me to see CL back on Arrow before the crossover one way or another. I know LOT is also filming and I don't want Sara-lite was of that, especially if it's also possibly the last season but I could see it. I'd like her and Oliver to have a proper goodbye, they both deserve that after what they've been through together.

Maybe the bunker is where he and the Monitor always end up when they travel to a different Earth because it's a cheap standing set  it's a familiar place for him. And then used by Connor and William and Mia ( assuming they're around) in the future. Then whatever they have to tie up in Star City 2019.

I know he was talking about a fan previously but it wouldn't surprise me to see CL back on Arrow before the crossover one way or another. I know LOT is also filming and I don't want Sara-lite was of that, especially if it's also possibly the last season but I could see it. I'd like her and Oliver to have a proper goodbye, they both deserve that after what they've been through together.

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There is no need for CL to appear Arrow especially if Oliver is not in star city. Since the shows film at the same time i dont see how it will be possible to manage it, especially with CL directing an episode. That means LOt will be Sara lite probably more than 1 episode. Also there really is no deep connection there anymore and she cannot possible give an imput into Olivers state of mind.

Edited by Velocity23
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1 hour ago, Featherhat said:

Maybe the bunker is where he and the Monitor always end up when they travel to a different Earth because it's a cheap standing set  it's a familiar place for him. And then used by Connor and William and Mia ( assuming they're around) in the future. Then whatever they have to tie up in Star City 2019.

I think this is likely. I doubt Arrow will be able to spend a lot of money on special effects or new sets. It could be that it's also where possible other heroes are brought back for testing.

I also agree that there is no need to bring Sara back. I could only see her back on Arrow next season (apart from the crossover) in maybe an E2 Laurel story.

Edited by tv echo

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3 minutes ago, tv echo said:

I think this is likely. I doubt Arrow will be able to spend a lot of money on special effects or new sets. It could be that it's also where possible other heroes are brought back for testing.

I also agree that there is no need to bring Sara back. I could only see her back on Arrow next season (apart from the crossover) in maybe an E2 Laurel story.

I dont even see the reason regarding E2 LL, because she seem to have more connections to Dinah atm.

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1 hour ago, Velocity23 said:

There is no need for CL to appear Arrow especially if Oliver is not in star city. Since the shows film at the same time i dont see how it will be possible to manage it, especially with CL directing an episode. That means LOt will be Sara lite probably more than 1 episode. Also there really is no deep connection there anymore and she cannot possible give an imput into Olivers state of mind.

I think they'd still have a lot to talk about, much more so than any of the remaining noobs but ymmv. I don't think there's a big need but I think it's possible if they're doing a wrap up tour of characters especially. I'd like them to have some sort of goodbye even if just their normal 2 lines in the crossover. I'm more invested in getting a decent sent off for Oliver on Arrow though and a good Diggle storyline and hopefully the FFs.

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I’m not sure if DR was around for the full Monitor shoot so I don’t know if he’d know for certain, but he doesn’t think EBR shot extra scenes in the finale.

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13 hours ago, Featherhat said:

I think they'd still have a lot to talk about, much more so than any of the remaining noobs but ymmv. I don't think there's a big need but I think it's possible if they're doing a wrap up tour of characters especially. I'd like them to have some sort of goodbye even if just their normal 2 lines in the crossover. I'm more invested in getting a decent sent off for Oliver on Arrow though and a good Diggle storyline and hopefully the FFs.

For me Sara really hasnt had real connection with Oliver for the past two years. I rather the time be spent with Oliver and his kids and wife. 

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It certainly sounds like KM is not finished with Arrow yet (from this June 3, 2019 interview)...

Q: "Is there any projects you're working on that you can tell us about?"
KM: "Other than Arrow, uh, I was in a film - Charlie Day from It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia wrote, directed and is starring in his directorial debut film, which I was lucky enough to be on for a day...."

KM also said that "working with Emily was an absolute dream. We're definitely going to miss her a lot."

An Interview with Katherine McNamara and Luke Baines - Christchurch Armageddon Expo 2019
Published on Jun 27, 2019, by Armageddon Expo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0bOuQjnq-rY

Edited by tv echo
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I don't think EBR/Felicity is coming back for the crossover - LaMonica Garrett tweeted that they already did a COIE table read yesterday (posted his tweets in the COIE thread in the LoT forum here), and we know EBR is currently rehearsing her Reborning play in NYC.

Edited by tv echo

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SA (and even DR) couldn't have been at that table read though either couldn't he? Isn't he still in Australia until around July? 

Edited by way2interested
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16 minutes ago, way2interested said:

SA (and even DR) couldn't have been at that table read though either couldn't he? Isn't he still in Australia until around July? 

It was only the table read for the Flash. 

22 minutes ago, tv echo said:

I don't think EBR/Felicity is coming back for the crossover - LaMonica Garrett tweeted that they already did a COIE table read yesterday (posted his tweets in the COIE thread in the LoT forum here), and we know EBR is currently rehearsing her Reborning play in NYC.

Yeah that was the Flash table read for episode 1 and 2. I think he just hashtagging all the shows. I think people also need to remember what SA said, Crisis started with the end of s7 of Arrow. That means the Crisis is already in motion in the new season for all the show. 

Edited by Velocity23
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Having the crossover so intertwined with the different shows' regular seasons is going to be so confusing this year (especially since I don't follow all of the Arrowverse shows)!

Edited by tv echo

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The flash cast posted pics and it looked like the Monitor actor was skyping with the cast of the Flash for the table read. 

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LaMonica Garrett might well have one of those All Arrowverse Regular contracts a few people had a couple of seasons ago and keep popping up everywhere it seems. We haven't heard the details of his deal yet but he did seem to close negotiations on one. 

I kind of doubt we'll be seeing Felicity for most of the crossover (depending on where/when Arrow's series finale actually is). She (and Mia/William) will at least be there in spirit considering how it ends for Oliver but I don't think they're betting on a big role for her given the emotional goodbye/going to find him in 7x22, that's the gut wrenching scenes for them. If it is the finale of Arrow and there's no wrap up ep afterwards featuring SA I can see her having a part, maybe reuniting in whichever dimension/pocket universe/plan of existence Oliver ends up in.

I guess it also depends on if it resets anything as well. 

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Sorry if this has been discussed already, but I know there has been some talk about whether Kat and Ben will be regulars this upcoming season, and I noticed that the WBTV 2019 SDCC Talent Social Handles page has both Ben and Kat's Instagram listed under Arrow. 

I don't know if that actualy means anything in terms of that, but it does seem more likely they'd be listed if the plan was for them to go to Comic Con for the show and/or if they will be regulars?

Edited by RedVitC · Reason: Forgot a word
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Thanks for that. Well I would imagine they'll be at Comic Con to promote the FFs and Future Team Arrow?, though that doesn't mean they're regulars, although most of the cast from the Arrowverse listed are, we'll have to wait and see.

I can't think of anyone who isn't actually a regular who might be expected at SDCC who isn't listed there for comparison. Unlike in the past when they had CL appear even though she'd already filmed her death and was never a regular. Maybe Andrea Sixtos but Adult Zoe wasn't particularly important, though I was kind of expecting all four to be upped a couple of months ago.

Is CH a regular next season? Either he's not or he's not going to SDCC or both because he's not listed. 

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Arrow Boss Hints at Final Season's Possible Returns: 'There Are So Many Characters That We Love...'
By Matt Webb Mitovich / June 29 2019,
https://tvline.com/2019/06/29/arrow-final-season-8-returns-thea-nyssa-malcolm/

Quote

For in addition to further setting the stage for the five-part “Crisis on Infinite Earths” crossover event — which launches in December and wraps up in 2020 after the holiday break — the seminal Arrowverse series may want to tend to any unfinished business involving characters who have been missing as of late. Thea (played by original cast member Willa Holland), for one, seems due for a finale encore, if only to fill in some blanks on Roy’s death, resurrection and self-imposed exile to Lian Yu. Plus, it’d be fun to get visits from two of the superhero drama’s best-remembered frenemies, Slade Wilson (Manu Bennett) and (the presumably late) Malcolm Merlyn (John Barrowman).

“There are so many characters [to consider]. So many characters,” showrunner Beth Schwartz acknowledged with a laugh during her most recent TVLine interview. “And we’re definitely thinking about all of that, because just as much as our fans want to see it, as people who have been on the show for a long time, we are also fans of these characters. So we’re going to make sure that everyone has a great final season.”
*  *  *
“That’s the exciting part of next season, only having 10 episodes,” she said. “We’ve [been] brainstorming and thinking about who we want back, because there are so many characters that we love.” And if everything goes according to the ambitious plan, “I think every episode is just going to be humongous,” Schwartz offered. “We’re going to fit it all in, and it’s definitely going to be an amazing season.” ...

Edited by tv echo

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Vlog 2 – Supanova Comic-Con & Gaming 2019 – David Ramsey
Published on Jun 29, 2019, by AccessReel
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xTwSjhiFvxE

-- On what he still wants for Diggle that hasn't happened yet, DR: "Well, I think we have to answer the question of what happens with this Green Lantern business. I think we just have to make a decision about that. We've teased it now for years, really. And, um, so I think we have to make a decision about that and I think this season we will."

-- On whether he knows how Arrow wraps up, DR: "Only pieces. And usually what's funny is that usually at the beginning of each season, we really do have an idea of where they want to go in terms of an arc. We have very little idea because they can do whatever they want this season. Ten shows, and every single episode is important."

Edited by tv echo

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FWIW, Beth Schwartz retweeted this...

Edited by tv echo
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Matt Carter's comments about Beth Schwartz's latest TVLine interview...

Arrow season 8: How boss hopes for plenty of returning characters
June 29, 2019
https://cartermatt.com/370116/arrow-season-8-how-boss-hopes-for-plenty-of-returning-characters/

Quote

In speaking via TVLine, executive producer Beth Schwartz did make it clear that she wants some characters back — she didn’t specify names, but we think that there have to be some high on the list:
*  *  *
If we had to wager, the top priorities will be Felicity and Thea. They are the two longest-tenured former cast members and their ties to Oliver make a request inevitable. Whether or not they come back is a totally different story. If they’re not at least asked, that’d be a bigger disappointment than almost anything within the show itself.

Edited by tv echo
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Well we assume EBR has been asked, whether or not it happens is another thing. I really want to know what happened to Thea. It kinda sounded like she was dead but everything was so vague with Roy and they pulled a "Malcolm coming back from being stabbed through the heart" with having him blank on explaining how he ended up on Lian Yu.

WH might come back for a goodbye but it would suck if she dies in COIE or we know she dies tragically before 2040. And it seems alternates are out according to SA.  

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23 hours ago, tv echo said:

Arrow Boss Hints at Final Season's Possible Returns: 'There Are So Many Characters That We Love...'
By Matt Webb Mitovich / June 29 2019,
https://tvline.com/2019/06/29/arrow-final-season-8-returns-thea-nyssa-malcolm/

FYI, there's an online poll in this article where you can vote for which characters you want to return (you can vote for up to 3).

Currently, the top vote getters are Thea (22.09%), Felicity (19.08%), Slade (14.51%) and Malcolm (11.8%).

Edited by tv echo
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Yeah,  I love John,  but I'm defintely Malcolm'd out at this point. 

Thea and Felicity please though. 

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On June 30, 2019 at 9:38 AM, tv echo said:

FWIW, Beth Schwartz retweeted this...

Thats interesting.

Edited by Proteus

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2 hours ago, Proteus said:

Thats interesting.

Maybe for the crossover. Or just a joke seeing as it's Beth "Spoilers" Schwartz here. I don't think they'd leak any move over or mini crossover yet even if it were happening. 

I guess they're doing pre production on Arrow and a couple of the others start this week so most will be heading back.

For returning characters I was wondering if they'd try and get Helena back. They've made noises about it over the years it's never happened, partly because JdG has been busy.

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I think she will be shadowing Bamford. That is why she is there so early. She was helping him on set for the premiere last year also and there was barely any LL in the s7 premiere.

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No surprise, but it sounds like both RG and JH are returning for S8 - from Arrow panel (KL, RG, JH) at Fan Fest-New Jersey on June 29...

2019 FanFest NJ Arrow Panel 5/5
Published on Jul 1, 2019, by Joelle Modderman
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PDad0cedqCg

-- Mod: "When do you guys start shooting? Have you started yet?" JH: "Soon." RG: "Soon. Within a couple weeks."

Edited by tv echo

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8 hours ago, Velocity23 said:

I think she will be shadowing Bamford. That is why she is there so early. She was helping him on set for the premiere last year also and there was barely any LL in the s7 premiere.

Shadowing for what? I know we speculated directing but I'd be surprised. She seems very excited for S8.

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She does, although she's been excited before and not had very much to do in terms of storyline or screentime. I wouldn't be entirely surprised if she's directing something or getting some experience before that happens, although with Bamford allegedly directing half the 10 eps there's not a lot of space left with Arrow.

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Also from what i heard David is going to direct more than 1 episode. So i wouldnt be surprised if she gets one. Especially after her filming with a drone a few weeks ago. And her going to an event like women in film that is usually attended by female directors. Also she seems to have been on the WB lot around the same time as CL as she attended one of the director workshop.

Also why would she go to Vancouver before celebreting 4th of July with her family, unless she has to be in Vancouver to prepare. It would still be 1 week before they start filming and not everybody films on the first day. Like i am sure Stephen Amell might not film unti the 15th. Since they start filming the season on a Thursday.

Edited by Velocity23

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10 hours ago, Velocity23 said:

Also from what i heard David is going to direct more than 1 episode. So i wouldnt be surprised if she gets one. Especially after her filming with a drone a few weeks ago. And her going to an event like women in film that is usually attended by female directors. Also she seems to have been on the WB lot around the same time as CL as she attended one of the director workshop.

Also why would she go to Vancouver before celebreting 4th of July with her family, unless she has to be in Vancouver to prepare. It would still be 1 week before they start filming and not everybody films on the first day. Like i am sure Stephen Amell might not film unti the 15th. Since they start filming the season on a Thursday.

Maybe it will turn out she's a natural behind the camera.  Good luck to her.  

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Snippet of new costumes:

Fairly different if that's supposed to be Oliver's, not his usual dark green, though it's hard to tell if its the one on the S8 initial "poster" which probably isn't the final one. It could be one of the FF kids version of it, Connor becoming GAish and the black could be anyone. 

Re the Canaries, I don't have an interest in either of them (any of them except Sara) but I expect DD to end up with a lot of screentime again and I don't think either she or BS will have finished with the FFs despite Dinah and Rene leaving it to the legacies. It's always hard to tell with Siren what she'll be getting, though she'll probably make it on to the crossover this time around. 

Edited by Featherhat

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^^^ So, no surprise, MG is still very much involved with Arrow...

GATV seems to think these are BC and GA suits. Does anyone think that we're going to see them together, like, maybe on another Earth? I could see MG and Beth maybe trying to appease the comics fans by having a GA/BC relationship on another Earth, perhaps with different actors. I'm reminded of this MG tumblr post from Feb. 6, 2016:

Quote

lawrrence asked:
okay, so since you are making the olicity fandom happy all the time, why not give us, lauriver fandom, a scene of an alternate universe which has Laurel and Oliver as a married couple just like in the comics? since your audience is not just the olicity fandom, you should show respect to the other ones who watch it for the other elements in the show but not for the olicity.

I know you won’t believe me, but we really don’t make creative choices based upon the will of the internet.  Nor do we base those choices on the comics.
That said, if it were organic, true to the show, and we had a great idea for an episode – sure, we’d do an alternate universe story.
But it’s not about satisfying one particular fandom over another.  Really.

http://marcguggenheim.tumblr.com/post/138823725984/okay-so-since-you-are-making-the-olicity-fandom 

ETA: Honestly, I don't even want to see Oliver and Laurel on another Earth. 

Edited by tv echo
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Results of TVLine's online poll (part of article on Beth's comments posted upthread)...

Arrow's Final Season: These Are the Characters You Hope to See Again — But Which Encores Are Most Likely?
By Matt Webb Mitovich / July 3 2019,
https://tvline.com/2019/07/03/arrow-final-season-8-returning-characters-thea-felicity-tommy/

15. BILLY MALONE’S VENGEFUL GHOST (less than 1%)
14. SUSAN WILLIAMS (WITH OR WITHOUT OLIVER JR.) (barely 1%)
13. CURTIS (2%)
12. HUNTRESS/HELENA BERTINELLI
11. SARA LANCE  (6%)
10. QUENTIN LANCE 
9. NYSSA AL-GHUL (11%)
8. MOIRA QUEEN (write-in vote)
7. MALCOLM MERLYN
6. RAGMAN/RORY REGAN (write-in vote)
5. SLADE WILSON
4. ADRIAN CHASE/PROMETHEUS (write-in vote)
3. FELICITY (19%)
2. TOMMY MERLYN (write-in vote, 31%)
1. THEA (22%)

Edited by tv echo

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I first thought about a GA/BC on another Earth to satisfy some of the people who are upset about it not happening on E1 and KC who I assume would want it, but SA did say he and the rest of the cast weren't playing alternate characters so who knows.

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Yeah, SA said no alt-versions, so it might just be a new costume for Oliver and another character and that's all it is to that. Although I doubt it would be Connor in the green since he still has his Knightwatch thing going on.

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I don’t care about alternate Earths at all. But I will laugh if those costumes are for GA and BC in Season 8 (this Earth or another) — and the BC is Dinah since I keep seeing people assuming BC=Laurel. (And I really don’t care if a GA and BC are together on another Earth in one quick scene because we already know our endgame.)

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