House Hunters - General Discussion

[chessiegal]

I love the beach episodes. We've rented beach homes in NC, and I dearly want to own one.

[Grrarrggh]

That step-father in Upper Arlington OH came off pretty unfeeling. At least they picked the good house in the great location. I loved the bathroom and some of the older touches. Nothing cookie cutter. 

From the way some parents talk you'd think children under eight have never taken a shower or children over eight have shared a room. 

[buttersister]

Lansing NY: I was going into super snark mode with PRIVACY dad when suddenly, at the end, he turns into super sweet dad who willingly sacrificed HIS CRAVING FOR PRIVACY to get the home that his kids would be happy in. Aw, I see what you did to the producers there, dude.

[LittleIggy]

Lansing, NY: Does the husband realize that in the winter deciduous trees have no leaves, but in the spring they will grow back? 🙄

[Grrarrggh]

58 minutes ago, LittleIggy said:

Lansing, NY: Does the husband realize that in the winter deciduous trees have no leaves, but in the spring they will grow back? 🙄

I loved the wife and the agent wondering about what he wanted so much privacy for in the backyard. 

[cameron]

I certainly wouldn't call the third house the Lansing NY couple look at a craftsman's style.  The only thing that I saw Craftsman's style was the front door.

[laredhead]

The second house in the Lansing episode would have been my favorite except for the hot tub in the master bathroom.  Who puts a hot tub in the bedroom?  I loved the views and the amount of land.  It needed some work, but I could have lived there with some modifications.  In the winter it might be problematic driving to work or school, and 30 minutes is a commute when you are used to being closer to your place of employment. 

I was not familiar with Lansing, NY and looked it up to find out where it is.  Found out that residents ofLansing, NY later settled in Michigan and named their new town there, Lansing, which later became the capital of Michigan.  Gee, HH can be educational.

Edited September 11, 2019 by laredhead

[ECM1231]

1 hour ago, laredhead said:

I was not familiar with Lansing, NY and looked it up to find out where it is.  Found out that residents ofLansing, NY later settled in Michigan and named their new town there, Lansing, which later became the capital of Michigan.  Gee, HH can be educational.

Google is our friend; I do this all the time too. As a downstate NY resident I had never heard of this town. It is near Ithaca, home to Cornell  University. 

Edited September 11, 2019 by ECM1231

[chessiegal]

Temecula, CA - what an unpleasant woman with illusions of grandeur. Sometime between the house hunt and reveal, she developed a new accent - total affectation. 

[Grrarrggh]

17 minutes ago, chessiegal said:

Temecula, CA - what an unpleasant woman with illusions of grandeur. Sometime between the house hunt and reveal, she developed a new accent - total affectation. 

Her accent didn't change at all. I could hear from the beginning that she'd grown up in Bermuda. My father-in-law only lived full time in NYC for nine years and then spent summer holidays there for another seven and he still sounds like a Brooklyn cabbie lol. 

[KLovestoShop]

The Temecula wife was awful. Speaking of illusions of grandeur, she’s the poster child. I really liked the husband, but she seems to emasculate him.  Everything had to be about her——her bathroom, her kitchen, her power office.  What the hell is a power office?  And when she started talking how she wanted to decorate her office, it sounded like hookerville.  

[Kenzie]

Temecula:

She was so dismissive of her husband's wishlist that I found myself feeling very sorry for him. She seems to have a great husband but treated him like a peon. Ugh.

[Blergh]

10 hours ago, chessiegal said:

Temecula, CA - what an unpleasant woman with illusions of grandeur. Sometime between the house hunt and reveal, she developed a new accent - total affectation. 

One could say she was Hyacinth Bucket's Bermudan twin- especially saying that she had to have a big entry hall to let everyone know she had 'arrived'. What does she think she is - an airplane?

[Mrs Huffnagle]

4 hours ago, Blergh said:

One could say she was Hyacinth Bucket's Bermudan twin- especially saying that she had to have a big entry hall to let everyone know she had 'arrived'. What does she think she is - an airplane?

That is an apt comparison.  I almost stopped watching, which I've never done before.   Husband seemed a decent guy, but I wonder how long they'll stay together.

[snarts]

4 hours ago, Mrs Huffnagle said:

That is an apt comparison.  I almost stopped watching, which I've never done before.   Husband seemed a decent guy, but I wonder how long they'll stay together.

Were they recently married?  I missed the intro due to storms.  She was so annoyingly self-important. terrible. I couldn't figure out if she was hamming it up for the cameras or if she was truly that ridiculously demanding.  They should've picked the 3rd house, their 17 year old will likely be out of the house soon and no room sharing will be needed,. 

[Mrs Huffnagle]

3 hours ago, snarts said:

Were they recently married?  I missed the intro due to storms.  She was so annoyingly self-important. terrible. I couldn't figure out if she was hamming it up for the cameras or if she was truly that ridiculously demanding.  They should've picked the 3rd house, their 17 year old will likely be out of the house soon and no room sharing will be needed,. 

It just occurred to me that maybe she thinks she will get a TV or film career.  It was as if she were auditioning for a Real Housewives show.

[edie3]

23 hours ago, KLovestoShop said:

 What the hell is a power office?

It has a custom gold couch and an alligator desk!

[ECM1231]

Milwaukee to San Antonio...man moves for a new HR job in San Antonio and ostensibly to be near his 5 year old son in Dallas. Scratching my head at that one. Closer than Milwaukee, sure, but Dallas is at least 5 hours away! He has a double sided paddle ceiling fan that MUST be  accommodated by high ceilings.

ETA:  I want to slap both his sister and realtor. He is approved for a 330K loan but his budget is 250K. Sis keeps pushing him to spend more and realtor has not shown him 1 house in his budget. I know it's fake but still!

Edited September 13, 2019 by ECM1231
Spelling

[LittleIggy]

18 hours ago, Kenzie said:

Temecula:

She was so dismissive of her husband's wishlist that I found myself feeling very sorry for him. She seems to have a great husband but treated him like a peon. Ugh.

I know! He seemed so nice, but she treated him so poorly. The man wanted a pool? Is that a crime? That woman made my skin crawl with her pretentiousness. The longer the show went on the more I fast-forwarded.

[LittleIggy]

Temecula: Anyone else watch Pose? The wife reminded me of Elektra. 😆

Stamford, CT: I thought they were a nice couple. At least they didn’t belittle each other.

[cameron]

On 9/8/2019 at 9:07 AM, laredhead said:

Going back a few episodes to the couple from Houston who bought a weekend/vacation house in Rockport, Texas, and I haven't seen any comments about that episode.  Yes, it was another Beachfront HH episode rebranded to a regular HH.  I usually erase those interlopers, but when it said the house was in Rockport I was interested to see what the area looked like after it was devastated by Hurricane Harvey in 2017.  You can never get a true sense of where anything is on HH because they aren't very specific, but I thought they would at least mention the storm, but they didn't.  The couple were not annoying, and the episode was pretty boring, but I find 99% of the beachfront episode boring because the houses tend to all look alike.  In this case the couple bought an older house that evidently survived the storm because it was a few hundred feet from the water.  I thought they would probably go for the brand new condo right on the beach.  I'm thinking maybe Rockport is now going to be "discovered" by vacationers, and this condo has obviously been constructed since the storm.  I another one hits, that new place is probably going to end up flattened and in the water, or the entire first floor will be flooded.  The couple probably made the best decision not to buy it.    

Thought the husband with the Justin B. hairdo needed a haircut.

[laredhead]

Loved the couple in the Washington Island, WI episode.  No huge expectations, and the wife said that the future kids could share a bathroom AND a closet.  She said that's the way she grew up and it was fine.  At first I thought this was a vacation home episode being sneaked in as a regular HH episode, but this couple was going to make Washington Island their home.  I loved the settings for all of the houses, and the prices weren't outrageous.

Once again, I ended up heading to the map and reading up on the location of this place.  It must be pretty cold there in the winter.  Anyone familiar with that area?       

[Grrarrggh]

4 minutes ago, laredhead said:

Loved the couple in the Washington Island, WI episode.  Once again, I ended up heading to the map and reading up on the location of this place.  It must be pretty cold there in the winter.  Anyone familiar with that area?       

Nope, but they've done a number of episodes there. I remember Schoolhouse Beach. 

[LittleIggy]

1 hour ago, laredhead said:

Loved the couple in the Washington Island, WI episode.  No huge expectations, and the wife said that the future kids could share a bathroom AND a closet.  She said that's the way she grew up and it was fine.  At first I thought this was a vacation home episode being sneaked in as a regular HH episode, but this couple was going to make Washington Island their home.  I loved the settings for all of the houses, and the prices weren't outrageous.

Once again, I ended up heading to the map and reading up on the location of this place.  It must be pretty cold there in the winter.  Anyone familiar with that area?       

It still seemed like a repackaged episode since the houses had names and the real estate agent didn’t go in the houses with them. I agree that the couple was nice and the island was beautiful.

[KLovestoShop]

1 hour ago, laredhead said:

Once again, I ended up heading to the map and reading up on the location of this place.  It must be pretty cold there in the winter.  Anyone familiar with that area?       

We used to go up to Door County a lot in the fall and take the ferry to Washington Island.   The average high temps in Dec through March is in the 20’s and the lows 10 to 15 degrees.  Winter snowfall averages about 50 inches in winter.  

[cameron]

9 hours ago, KLovestoShop said:

We used to go up to Door County a lot in the fall and take the ferry to Washington Island.   The average high temps in Dec through March is in the 20’s and the lows 10 to 15 degrees.  Winter snowfall averages about 50 inches in winter.  

Going to be a little chilly walking to work in the winter.

[amarante]

I think the Temecula lady was somewhat or a lot of a poseur. 

Although she said she was willing to spend up to a certain amount, none of the houses were even close to her purported maximum. I am sure if she were really willing to spend that amount of money, she could have found a home that was better. I really didn't like any of those homes particularly in terms of either functionality or aesthetics.

I know that the whole process is rigged and so there really aren't the choices available although theoretically choices would represent a sample of what is available at whatever price point/location house hunters are seeking. However, often I think all of the homes are pretty dreadful and wonder why they didn't look further especially when they are not close to what their stated maximum budget is. While I don't believe in making oneself house poor, often the functionality of the homes is so terrible that I wonder why they didn't up their budget $30,000 or so and get a more functional design. I'm not talking about "outdated cabinets" but stuff like not having a bathroom or even a powder room on each level. I find many of the cheap Cape Cod homes to be pretty dismal as the upstairs bedrooms have almost no normal height ceilings. 

[chessiegal]

We upped our budget by $100,000 when we couldn't find what we wanted. Upped our monthly mortgage payment by a whopping $32/mo.

[doodlebug]

18 minutes ago, chessiegal said:

We upped our budget by $100,000 when we couldn't find what we wanted. Upped our monthly mortgage payment by a whopping $32/mo.

I understand, but how much more did you have to have for a down payment?  $20,000 more if you put the standard 20% down.  When these house hunters talk about breaking the budget, I presume that is, at least in part, because they have scraped together as much cash as they possibly can for the down payment and they aren't going to be able to even apply for a mortgage if they don't have sufficient cash on hand to write the check.  I don't know many people who could cough up an additional 20 grand for a down payment at a moment's notice.

Edited September 15, 2019 by doodlebug

[Ohwell]

Also, it's sometimes not as simple as "upping the budget."  You have to qualify for that upper amount and some people won't. 

[chessiegal]

We had over $500,000 for a down payment, so yeah, that makes a difference. Our down payment was about 72%.

[Ohwell]

Also, it's sometimes not as simple as "upping the budget."  You have to qualify for that upper amount and some people won't. 

But then, I have to keep reminding myself that we don't really know what the "actual" budget is for the people who come on this show.

[doodlebug]

2 minutes ago, chessiegal said:

We had over $500,000 for a down payment, so yeah, that makes a difference. Our down payment was about 72%.

Yowza!  Good on you!  But I'm sure you realize that most folks looking for a house to buy don't have that kind of money.

It also grinds my gears when realtors on the show tell someone that sure, they can just jump right in and install a new kitchen since the house is priced $30,00 below budget.  That only works if they're paying cash outright and will have it in the bank after closing.  Or, If their down payment gives them enough equity to get a home improvement line of credit.  Not to mention the fact that most of these people want to move walls and change the layout of the kitchen which is virtually impossible to do for a mere 30 grand unless they've incredibly handy and have a lot of free time

[amarante]

20 minutes ago, doodlebug said:

I understand, but how much more did you have to have for a down payment?  $20,000 more if you put the standard 20% down.  When these house hunters talk about breaking the budget, I presume that is, at least in part, because they have scraped together as much cash as they possibly can for the down payment and they aren't going to be able to even apply for a mortgage if they don't have sufficient cash on hand to write the check.  I don't know many people who could cough up an additional 20 grand for a down payment at a moment's notice.

I am not understanding your math. If a house is $30,000 more then a down payment is only a percentage of that excess. There are always ways to structure escrow if closing costs are an issue  

Also my original post is based on what they say is their maximum amount so theoretically they have the money for a slightly more expensive home or else they are lying. I can’t imagine moving into some of the ones they picked if I could afford a slightly more expensive home. 

I also don’t understand how not spending what you have qualified for means you then have that money to make expensive improvements since a mortgage is based on purchase price unless someone is paying all cash and therefore actually has what isn’t spent in the bank. I very much doubt any of these people are paying cash except possibly for older people who might have sold a home with enormous equity or buying in a foreign country where one wouldn’t be able to obtain a mortgage

[doodlebug]

2 minutes ago, amarante said:

I am not understanding your math. If a house is $30,000 more then a down payment is only a percentage of that excess. There are always ways to structure escrow if closing costs are an issue  

Also my original post is based on what they say is their maximum amount so theoretically they have the money for a slightly more expensive home or else they are lying. I can’t imagine moving into some of the ones they picked if I could afford a slightly more expensive home. 

I also don’t understand how not spending what you have qualified for means you then have that money to make expensive improvements since a mortgage is based on purchase price unless someone is paying all cash and therefore actually has what isn’t spent in the bank. I very much doubt any of these people are paying cash except possibly for older people who might have sold a home with enormous equity or buying in a foreign country where one wouldn’t be able to obtain a mortgage

I was referring to a previous poster who said that when they were unable to find a house they liked in their price range, they upped their range by $100,000.  I just pointed out that, with a standard mortgage with 20% down, it would require $20,000 more in cash for a down payment to do it.  I realize that there are some creative financing options that could perhaps help in these situations, but, presuming they haven't discussed it already with a mortgage lender; most people don't have the cash and don't know how they could get that much.  

I think many people give a lower range to the realtor knowing that he/she is going to want to show them houses a bit above their price, too.  $30,000 more would involve $6 grand more cash in the usual situation, though, and many folks, especially young people just buying their first place, probably don't have it.  However, remember on this show, the house has already been purchased and the mortgage has been obtained.  I think they often create fictional price ranges to add to the 'drama' when the 'over-budget' house is the one they want.  

I agree with you on the renovation costs though.  Just because one can qualify to purchase a $100,000 house doesn't mean they will have $20,000 to spend on improvements if they buy an $80,000 house.  At best, they will maybe have $4 grand extra at closing.

[topanga]

Murietta, CA: I’m going to give the wife the benefit of the doubt and assume that she exaggerated her diva behavior for this show. Because she was ridiculous. The things she wanted with their budget were unrealistic. If she wanted everything to be custom-designed to fit her personal tastes, they should’ve looked at new construction.  The husband wasn’t much better.

Or if I were the Realtor, I would’ve shown them a million dollar home with everything they wanted just to show them how much it would cost to get every single item on their wish list. 

And that mother-in-law. The large walk in closet wasn’t quite large enough for her. The nice-sized bedroom wasn’t big enough. Didn’t the wife say that her mom had been a renter her entire life? So grandma should shut up and enjoy living off her daughter and son-in-law. I don’t remember her saying she was contributing a dime toward the cost of the home. 

That being said, I did like the family overall. The 4 kids were a little bratty, but they were beautiful, and they all seemed very close and loving. Why did everyone have to come to the real estate office, though? Couldn’t grandma have stayed home with the kids while the parents conducted business? Fortunately, the kids didn’t come along for the actual house hunting. 

Edited September 17, 2019 by topanga
Because their home is in Murietta . ‘Marietta’ is in Georgia.

[cameron]

On 9/12/2019 at 12:18 AM, KLovestoShop said:

The Temecula wife was awful. Speaking of illusions of grandeur, she’s the poster child. I really liked the husband, but she seems to emasculate him.  Everything had to be about her——her bathroom, her kitchen, her power office.  What the hell is a power office?  And when she started talking how she wanted to decorate her office, it sounded like hookerville.  

Finally just watched the Temecula episode.  Had to wonder if she's for real.  The realtor even rolled her eyes a few times.

[cameron]

2 hours ago, topanga said:

Murietta, CA: I’m going to give the wife the benefit of the doubt and assume that she exaggerated her diva behavior for this show. Because she was ridiculous. The things she wanted with their budget were unrealistic. If she wanted everything to be custom-designed to fit her personal tastes, they should’ve looked at new construction.  The husband wasn’t much better.

Or if I were the Realtor, I would’ve shown them a million dollar home with everything they wanted just to show them how much it would cost to get every single item on their wish list. 

And that mother-in-law. The large walk in closet wasn’t quite large enough for her. The nice-sized bedroom wasn’t big enough. Didn’t the wife say that her mom had been a renter her entire life? So grandma should shut up and enjoy living off her daughter and son-in-law. I don’t remember her saying she was contributing a dime toward the cost of the home. 

That being said, I did like the family overall. The 4 kids were a little bratty, but they were beautiful, and they all seemed very close and loving. Why did everyone have to come to the real estate office, though? Couldn’t grandma have stayed home with the kids while the parents conducted business? Fortunately, the kids didn’t come along for the actual house hunting. 

The last two couples that were featured from the Temecula/Murrieta area were cut from the same mold.  Couldn't believe.  Think HH is going for the ridiculous factor.

[laredhead]

Murietta, CA episode - do some women HH's think there's a franchise for The Real Housewives in every town?  I hope the woman from Murietta never gets together with the woman from Temecula to house hunt.  No realtor in their right mind would take them as clients.  The realtor last night said a few times that nothing was going to make the Murietta HH happy.  That couple should have found a lot and built exactly what they wanted.  Also, I've said it before, look at the pix of the listing before you go see it.  I'm sure every kitchen was pictured and you could see before you got there that 2 of them did not have white kitchens.  

I understand that some people don't want to live in a development that has an HOA and requires rules and fees to support amenities, but don't be such a jerk about saying you don't like anyone telling you what you can and can't do.  Just tell your spouse and the realtor that's a deal breaker and shut up about it.  Yes, I know HH wants to amp up the conflict, but some of us just want to watch a conflict free show at the end of the day.   

I was so over them by the time the show ended, I really can't remember the differences in the houses.  So they bought a 5 bedroom/4 bath house - right?  The MIL ended up taking a 2nd floor bedroom, but the wife said she gave that big blue bedroom to the son, which meant that 2 girls had to share a room.  Why not give the largest bedroom to the children who would have to share?  I am assuming that the oldest girl got the bedroom and bath downstairs, but no mention was made of that.  If MIL has health or mobility issues in the future, that 2nd floor bedroom is going to be inconvenient.  I would bet that MIL is the full time baby sitter.  Did anyone hear what this couple does for a living?

[ECM1231]

D.C. teacher and her friend/ potential roommate. 299K budget. 1st house is a 5 bedroom Cape Cod. Totally updated. Absolutely nothing to do. 9 foot ceilings on 1st floor. 2 master bedrooms on 1st floor. 3rd bedroom in attic. Final 2 bedrooms and a full bath in basement. They are complaining about the 1st floor bedrooms. Any br that can fit a queen sized bed is a master bedroom to me. Yea the closet is tiny but I am 62 and still waiting for that elusive walk in closet. The buyer wants a rowhouse so I can understand not liking a stand- alone home, but for a starter home or even a forever home, that cape could not be beat! These young' uns want  everything!

[LittleIggy]

Ithaca, NY: Why did the wife keep asking if the house was “off the grid”?  I didn’t like any of those houses. The one they picked had weird shaped, tiny rooms upstairs and shoddy renovations. Good thing the husband knows about construction.

[irisheyes]

6 hours ago, LittleIggy said:

Ithaca, NY: Why did the wife keep asking if the house was “off the grid”?  I didn’t like any of those houses. The one they picked had weird shaped, tiny rooms upstairs and shoddy renovations. Good thing the husband knows about construction.

She wanted a house that had public utilities (water and sewer) and natural gas (not propane).  As annoying as she was, I can’t fault those “wants”. Well and septic sucks. 

I would have taken the ranch (even with the well water).  It was newer, it had a decent basement, and a nice yard.  Perfect starter home.

Edited September 18, 2019 by irisheyes

[Ohwell]

9 hours ago, ECM1231 said:

D.C. teacher and her friend/ potential roommate. 299K budget. 1st house is a 5 bedroom Cape Cod. Totally updated. Absolutely nothing to do. 9 foot ceilings on 1st floor. 2 master bedrooms on 1st floor. 3rd bedroom in attic. Final 2 bedrooms and a full bath in basement. They are complaining about the 1st floor bedrooms. Any br that can fit a queen sized bed is a master bedroom to me. Yea the closet is tiny but I am 62 and still waiting for that elusive walk in closet. The buyer wants a rowhouse so I can understand not liking a stand- alone home, but for a starter home or even a forever home, that cape could not be beat! These young' uns want  everything!

Heh, I had to laugh because no way were they actually in DC; they were probably in the suburbs, I'm guessing Prince Georges County, MD. 

[cameron]

Lansing NY couple.  Another Daddy's girl.  I am getting tired of bickering couples.

[SpecialKay]

2 hours ago, cameron said:

Lansing NY couple.  Another Daddy's girl.  I am getting tired of bickering couples.

What a spoiled brat. I know she thinks she was being "cute" but she was wrong. And, her husband seemed like such a nice guy! Why do the brats end up with the nice ones?

[Kohola3]

1 hour ago, SpecialKay said:

What a spoiled brat. I know she thinks she was being "cute" but she was wrong. And, her husband seemed like such a nice guy! Why do the brats end up with the nice ones?

She wasn't the worst we've ever seen but she was pretty insufferable especially since the husband had a construction background.  The "off the grid" thing made it sound like they were moving to the wilderness of Alaska with an outhouse and toting water from the nearest lake.  Lots of us live without city water or sewers and we get along just fine.

It was the fact that the husband found SO many faults with that farmhouse that I was astounded they bought it.  That thing was a wreck.  

[amarante]

30 minutes ago, Kohola3 said:

She wasn't the worst we've ever seen but she was pretty insufferable especially since the husband had a construction background.  The "off the grid" thing made it sound like they were moving to the wilderness of Alaska with an outhouse and toting water from the nearest lake.  Lots of us live without city water or sewers and we get along just fine.

It was the fact that the husband found SO many faults with that farmhouse that I was astounded they bought it.  That thing was a wreck.  

Actually I assumed it was the one they were getting because of the price and his construction background. It's like whenever a home is under construction because the "sellers" decided to stop mid-project it's obvious that it is the home and they have started construction.

There was a recent HH International in which the family was musical and a piano was one of the items that was in a room that would be perfect for a music room. Obvious it was going to be the one because moving a piano or a pool table would be too logistically difficult. That one even had some artwork in the girl's bedroom that was there both before and after the reveal. I think the reason most of the HH International apartments are "furnished" is because the international HH's have generally been living in their homes for awhile versus the domestic HH's where many of them are probably still in the early stages of having moved in and so it is easier for the production crew to empty out a home. 

The other two homes were more expensive and also didn't have good bones. As I recall the first home appeared to have major structural and water intrusion issues and the second home had a pretty terrible layout. 

Speak for yourself but I think being hooked up to public utilities like sewage and electricity and water would be a MAJOR factor in terms of my wanting to buy. I personally would not want to rely on well water or deal with a septic system if there was an alternative. The suburbs of Ithaca aren't exactly the frontier and so there are plenty of homes "on the grid". My aunt lived in a home with well water and a septic system and I recall that during the summer we had to ration bath water. That was a while ago so pollution and ground contaminants weren't an issue but I certainly wouldn't want to rely on the cleanliness of ground water especially close to a relatively urban area. And who knows what kinds of industrial contaminants there are in the ground water that would supply the well.

[chessiegal]

We have well water and septic. We've had the water tested more than once, and it is fine. The only problem is if the power goes out, the pump doesn't work. That rarely happens. We've never had to ration water. We have propane - tank buried in the yard. I never thought of us living "off the grid".

[laredhead]

The term "living off the grid" to me means living without public electric lines or water.  There is a TV series about people doing that.  You are dependent on solar panels or generators for electric power, wood stoves for heat and cooking, and a well for water. 

[Ohwell]

Regarding the DC roommates (actually it was "DC Metro Area") I forgot to mention that their cutesy, friendly shtick was too much.  They both acted like 10 year olds instead of grown women and I didn't stick around long enough to see which place they close.