Game Over: How YOU Would Have Done Season 8

[Spartan Girl]

I know it's technically not the end yet, but it's obvious that for most of us this final season has sucked. And since the petition to get it remade probably won't make a difference and we can't count on GRRM for anything, let's try for something more constructive: let's all share how we would have done this season. What would we have done differently? Would we have kept anything the same?

I have my own ideas, but I want to see some other people's at first.

Edited May 17, 2019 by Spartan Girl

[Uncle JUICE]

Are we limited to exactly season eight six episodes? 

[Spartan Girl]

1 hour ago, Uncle JUICE said:

Are we limited to exactly season eight six episodes? 

Whatever you want, however long you want. Just how you would have ended the show, period.

[BitterApple]

For starters, I would've done 12 regulation-length episodes. 

Mileage varies, but for me, the extended battle episodes fell completely flat. The Long Night got boring once I realized nobody of major significance was going to die. Same for King's Landing. The Iron Fleet, Scorpions and Golden Company were demolished in the first five minutes, so everything afterwards was just repetitive gratuitous violence. 

All that aside, I would've scrapped Mad Queen and stuck with the Night King being the big bad. Flesh out his back story a little more and have the war against the dead last over several episodes. I also would've reversed order and had them take out Cersei first.

I would've had either Jon or Dany sacrifice themselves for the living, and whoever survived take the Throne. 

I'm fine with most of the endings for the other characters.

Edited May 18, 2019 by BitterApple

[Maximum Taco]

Honestly, I think the story they had was fine. 

But everything happened just way too quickly. If they had spread out the War for the Dawn over 6 episodes, and then had the Last War be another 6, I think they would've had time to lay enough ground work to fix all of the issues. 

[Delete]

Longer season: They jammed way too much in too few episodes. Winter came, and defrosted pretty fast. 

Better writing:  OMG. where do I start? Tyrion is a good example of a fine actor with a fine character who was made into an idiotic fool. 

Stop with the fan service:  For example, I was one of the few viewers who was not thrilled that Jaime bedded Brienne. They were fond of each other, but I never felt there was never sexual chemistry or tension there. More of a non-incestuous brother and sister relationship. HA!

Ayra: Probably the biggest disappointment for me was the lack of utilizing 'a girl' who took on different faces in order to assassinate her enemies. One of the BEST episodes was Ayra destroying the House Frey. It was cleverly done, and fit her character. This is what she trained for years to do. 

I was never motivated by who gets to sit on the Iron Throne at the end of it all. It was all about fleshing out  the characters, along with excellent writing that provided so many twists, and turns along the way. And of course I greatly anticipated what played out with the white walkers and the NK. There was such a long build up, but a rather abrupt, and sloppy conclusion. 

[Umbelina]

Basically?  ALL of this.

https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/the-real-reason-fans-hate-the-last-season-of-game-of-thrones/

The focus on Dany as an example here is fabulous.

Also, WINTER would have done a lot more damage to the whole continent, and would have lasted more than one night. 

Edited May 18, 2019 by Umbelina
here not her

[RobertDeSneero]

First off is that I would want to be true to Martin's vision.  The story starts off with a kid who in many books would turn out to be the heroic protagonist, but he gets pushed out a window and crippled.  Then, Ned Stark looks like a hero and maybe he gets sent to the Wall, where he rejoins his bastard and eventually they are the heroes of this tale, bit he gets his head chopped off.  Then we have Robb, the young hero avenging his father, but the the Red Wedding happens. 

At that point, you can't top the Red Wedding and you've pulled the rug out from under your reader so many times, so you ease up on that trick.  You build up Jon and Dany.  You get readers emotionally invested in them.  Then, once they have forgotten, you do it to them again.  Dany, who you've been trained to expect is the future Queen turns out to not be the hero you were expecting.  She burns King's Landing.

The Red Wedding was a traumatic experience for readers and viewers.  It made fans angry.  It made some quit.  Dark Dany is supposed to be even worse.

I also agree with Martin about the importance and value of The Scouring of the Shire in The Lord of the Rings.  This story has been partially about getting him to a place where he can do his variation on that concept.  So, I would retain the general idea of a final season split in half between the war against the Night King, culminating in a final battle at Winterfell, and the resumption of the game of thrones and the fight for the Iron Throne.

I very much like the suspenseful aspect of not really seeing the army of the dead in action until they attack Winterfell, so I would keep that part of the story.  I would have broken the battle up into two episodes.  The first ends with the dead crossing the fire moat and attacking the walls.

I would add another episode before the march to King's Landing.  I would have Dany accept Sansa's advice to rest her troops before heading south, only to blame that delay for giving her enemies time to prepare the naval ambush at Dragonstone.

So, my broad outline looks like this:

Episode 1 and 2 remain the same.  Episode 3 is the first half of the Battle of Winterfell, ending with the army of the dead reaching the walls.  Episode 4 is the second half, ending with the defeat of the Night King.  Episode 5 is the aftermath, ending with Euron's fleet surprising Dany and killing one of her dragons.  Episode 6 is the Dany's reaction to that defeat, ending with the death of Missandei.  Episode 7 is the first half of the Battle of King's Landing, ending with Dany destroying Euron's fleet.  Episode 8 is the second half of the battle, with Dany torching King's Landing.

From there, we go to the endgame.  Dany is like she is the only country with nuclear weapons.  So, to take her down, one needs to neutralize her dragon.  In the end, I'd have Jon kill Drogon, Dany kill Jon, and someone who is not Arya kill Dany.  I lean towards Sansa, with the dialogue about using the pointy end being foreshadowing, or Ser Davos.  I like the idea of Sansa doing it to save Tyrion, who Dany should think now is an enemy after he released Jamie.  No one sits on the Iron Throne.  The Northern secession is ratified.  The Seven Kingdoms are separate again.  
 

[Spartan Girl]

I agree that a slower pace and more episodes would have made a difference. I too would have extended the Winterfell battle and increased casualties: Brienne should have gone down in battle instead of getting wooed and screwed by Jaime, and the loss of her would have strengthened Jaime's spine so that he would return to KL to kill Cersei and not die with her. Maybe have Pod and Samwell die too (because really Sam is kind of useless, sorry not sorry).

I also would have given Tyrion back his brain and not keep trying to "save" Cersei (especially after she put a hit on him and Jaime after lying about helping them fight).

But I think the biggest thing I would have done was develop Jon and Dany more.

Seriously, writers: if you wanted this to be an epic star-crossed tragic romance, THEN TREAT IT LIKE ONE:

•  Rather than jumping right to Winterfell in episode 1, give us one post Boatsex scene where they open up to each other: it would have been a great opportunity for Dany to muse about the house with the red door.
• Have Jon make it clear to Sansa that Dany was willing to help without him bending the knee and have him take the heat without the "I had no choice crap."
• Give Jon more to do, PERIOD. Dany shouldn't be the only one pouring her heart and soul. Instead of just the "I don't want the throne, you're my queen" spiel, have him TELL HIS FEELINGS. That he can't help still loving her, even though he can't get past the incest, but that he'll still stand by her as kin and blood.
• Lastly, give THEM the romantic Romeo and Juliet ending and not fucking Cersei and Jaime. Viewers came in expecting that one or both of them would bring back the Targaryen bloodline and rule the instead they end it by sacrificing themselves to save and bring about a better world. How's THAT for subverted tropes?!

[BooBear]

15 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

I agree that a slower pace and more episodes would have made a difference. I too would have extended the Winterfell battle and increased casualties: Brienne should have gone down in battle instead of getting wooed and screwed by Jaime,

I am just going to go with what they wrote. I am not sure increasing episodes would have done anything because most of season 7, imho, was a stall and a waste of time.  It seems that D&D didn't know how to get to a satisfying ending and only knew how to continue plot arcs that GRRM started. But,

• Dany would not smile when her dragons scared the northerners.
• Dany would not make any scary threats when Sansa seemed cold to her. 
• I would have cut the Jon rides a dragon scene from the first episode and had Jon do that in desperation in episode 3 - maybe to get to Bran.
• The entire thing with Sam would have been done differently. Jon would have run into him in the court yard early on. Sam would tell Jon about his background. Jon would tell Sam about his dad.  
• Sansa and Arya would have more to do with Dany and Jon.
• The night king battle would have had the army behind the walls of winterfell.
• One dragon would have guarded the other taking out the army fo the dead either for the air or on the ground.
• People watching from the inside would be overwhelmed and thrilled with Dany and her Dragons. 
• Jon would make it to protect Bran against the night king but would look to be losing. 
• Arya would come out of no place and take out the night king.
• Jon would be amazed at what Arya can now do.
• Jamie, Brianne, and many more would die during the battle.
• Dany would be a big hero. Sansa would apologize for not trusting her. 
• Time would pass before going after Cersie.
• Yara would take out Euron.
• The army would take out or start to take out the golden company.
• Dany will take out Cersie and the red keep. 
• Cersei will escape and lose her baby.
• Dany will take the iron throne. 
• John chooses to go north and restart the nights watch --but for some good reason like in case the walkers come back.  He will never tell anyone about his Targaryen background. 
• Sansa is Warden in the north. 
• Last scene. Cersie with her minions smugly drinking her wine thinking she escaped and Jamie finds her... strangles her, the look on her face is shock and horror, once done Arya is the killer and crosses Cerise's name off her list. 

This might not be shock and horror but to me it would have been satisfying. 

[Spartan Girl]

19 minutes ago, BooBear said:

Sansa would apologize for not trusting her. 

Yes! I would have done this too, have Sansa and Dany call truce and realize that they had a lot in common after they talk about their respective ordeals at the hands of guys like Viserys, Joffrey, and Ramsey. Frankly I think it's insulting and ridiculous that The writers just pitted them against each other because of the old "women can't get along" trope. 

[BooBear]

10 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

Yes! I would have done this too, have Sansa and Dany call truce and realize that they had a lot in common after they talk about their respective ordeals at the hands of guys like Viserys, Joffrey, and Ramsey. Frankly I think it's insulting and ridiculous that The writers just pitted them against each other because of the old "women can't get along" trope. 

Not to mention that it spits in the face of reason to have them fighting after the battle. You are facing millions of the undead at your door about to kill you and someone comes along with a dragon and kills 700+ at a wack... first, awe and amazement at the dragon existing and taking out the dead and then deep gratitude that the person with the dragons is willing to assist you.  Just irrational that Sansa or anyone at Winterfell wouldn't be happy with Dany.  More irrational that in the immediate aftermath everyone would be giving Jon the credit. Frankly a more rational story would be they would all flock to Dany and Jon would be jealous... but can't have that cause he is a man. 

[Maximum Taco]

Ok, thought it through a bit more. Here are the story beats I would change (with the added episodes I need) for the War for the Dawn (6 Episodes)

Episode 1 - Winterfell - Largely the same episode with the following changes. 

• Sansa is less cold towards Daenerys. I agree with her wariness, but Sansa is smart enough (or should be) to not show it so obviously. Courtesy is a lady's armor. 
• Sansa is less cold towards Tyrion. Again wariness is warranted, but she should be seeing the asset he can be and should be using him for information on Daenerys. This will make her accusation that he's frightened of her later land with more impact, and will make Tyrion's consideration of Jon for the throne more of a threat. 
• The old men actually bring their proposal of marriage to Jon and Dany. Jon rejects it as they need to concentrate on the war, but again this prospect needs to be brought up to Dany to have Jon's betrayal land harder. 
• Family lines need to be drawn more clearly, there should be one scene with Sansa and Arya discussing Daenerys. 
• There should be elephants. Why should we stand on the practicality of elephants travelling by sea when we won't stand on any other kind of practicality?
• Jon should object to a romantic jaunt on the Dragons with Dany. Dany should need to talk him into it more. I think this scene should still happen, it needs to be established that Jon can ride, and Jon and Dany need tender scenes to make their romance believable. When they reach the waterfall Dany should broach the subject of marriage again with Jon. 
• Bran and Sam should tell Jon about his heritage together, he should be more resistant to the story. He's grown up as a son of Ned Stark and that's ingrained in him, Sam shouldn't be able to convince him by himself. 

Episode 2 - A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms - Largely the same episode, this episode was pretty great and doesn't need many changes either. 

• The subject of Jon and Dany's marriage should be brought up again. This time with Jorah talking to Jon. This would have a dual effect, it cements that Jorah has moved on from any romantic notions of Dany, and brings his story arc to a close, and it allows Jon to reject this violently. He won't tell Jorah why, but it should be obvious to us that he doesn't think he can have a relationship with his aunt. 
• Instead of Bran's bullshit "I am the library of all time" answer he should say that he suspects that the Night King hopes to turn him and use his powers. Bran is at this point the most singularly powerful person in the world. The Night King should be wanting to use him not kill him. This also gives a reason for the Night King to come personally for Bran (if he just wants him dead there's no reason for him to come and risk injury to himself)
• Dany should talk to Jon about his response to Jorah's talk. She should say that if he doesn't want to marry her she understands, he'll tell her that he does want to, but cannot, and then reveal his heritage to her. The rest of the scene plays out normally. 
• At the end of the episode we should be expecting an attack from the AOTD, instead though Winterfell begins receiving ravens. Instead of attacking Winterfell directly, the Night King has rerouted his army to those Northern holdfasts that kept their armies at home. Deepwood Motte, White Harbor and Greywater Watch are under seige, and they beg for aid. The dead are getting stronger before striking at Winterfell. 

Episode 3 - The Long Night - Here's where we start to diverge obviously. 

• A war council is held. Jon insists that they send aid to the Glovers, Manderlys and Reeds, and Dany agrees, the dead are already powerful enough, adding more troops will make things much more difficult. Sansa dissents, Winterfell's defense should be their priority. Sansa is rightfully overruled. 
• At this council Varys points out that the sun has not risen, but should have. It's obvious that the Long Night has fallen. This is a real period of prolonged darkness now and not just a statement of how the battle would just never end. 
• Meanwhile in King's Landing, Cersei is more obviously pregnant. This beat goes nowhere in the show currently, but it should be used to both make Cersei a more sympathetic character, and also to show the passage of time. Cersei throws a tourney to celebrate the conception and also announces her engagement to Euron who she publicly acknowledges as the father. At this tourney we see Homeless Harry Strickland fight, and he's good at it. This guy needs to be more involved.
• After the armies leave Winterfell Sansa again meets with Tyrion, this should be a repeating theme. She is trying to both gauge how deep his loyalty to Dany is and turn him more obviously to her side.  
• In Winterfell the night that will never end is sapping everyone's morale. The smallfolk are beginning to despair. 
• Dany takes Drogon and the Dothraki to Deepwood Motte, she wins a resounding victory there and Lord Glover bends the knee to her directly swearing himself to her in perpetuity. Dany needs to have victories interspersed with defeats this season instead of constantly getting her teeth kicked in. Also a northern house sword directly to her will lend more credence to Sansa's mistrust and dislike of Dany. 
• Davos and Jaime take the Northmen and Valemen to White Harbor, and they are routed. They take heavy losses and return to Winterfell with a small band of survivors. The slaughter of the Northmen and Valemen again lends credence to Sansa's dislike of Dany. 
• Jon and Arya take Rhaegal and the Wildlings to Greywater. There Jon on Rhaegal fights the Night King on Viserion. Jon manages to knock the Night King from the dragon and they resume their battle on the ground while Viserion fights Rhaegal in the sky, riderless. Jon strikes a blow that should be mortal to the Night King, but isn't. Arya see this. This establishes that it will be more difficult to kill the Night King than other White Walkers, and it doesn't just come out of nowhere.

Episode 4 - The Night is Dark...

• Jon and Arya return to Winterfell, they took heavy losses, the most significant being that Rhaegal is injured. Also with them are Meera Reed and a group of crannogmen.
• Sansa asks after Lord Howland, Bran interjects coldly that he's dead, and this leads to a confrontation with Meera. No real purpose to this except to highlight once again Bran's disdain for human life and loss. 
• The situation at Winterfell continues to deteriorate as the Long Night stretches onward, and the losses at White Harbor weigh heavily on the Northerners. Resentment is brewing as the dragons were sent to the other locations which fared better. 
• War council. Here's where cracks begin to obviously show in our alliance. Sansa is angry with Jon and Dany for sending the Northerners to their deaths. Dany is angry at Jon for attacking the Night King on his own and getting Rhaegal injured. Lord Glover who is at this council is staunchly in Dany's camp, this distresses Sansa. 
• Meanwhile Arya meets Bran in the godswood. She tells him about Jon's duel with the Night King. Bran does his Bran thing, and tells Arya about how the Night King was created. How he has a piece of dragonglass where his heart should be. Bran asks Arya "Do you remember where the heart is?" calling back to her conversation with the Hound. 
• Jon meets with Gendry and shows him Longclaw. After his battle with the Night King the blade has developed a crack. Gendry is distressed at anything that could cause this kind of damage to Valyrian steel. He says he'll do his best to reforge it.
• In King's Landing a very pregnant Cersei plans to wed Euron. Euron mentions that he thought she wanted to wait until the war was over. She tells him that their child cannot be a bastard, and that it needs to be done soon. The wedding is understated for once and done in the Red Keep, this is not a celebration for Cersei, it is a necessity.  
• Melisandre arrives at Winterfell. She has seen in the flames that the War for the Dawn is coming. Davos vehemently argues for her execution. She tells them there is no need, this battle will be her last, and they need her to survive. 

Episode 5 - ...And Full of Terrors. - This is our Battle for Winterfell episode, it plots out mostly the same as the actual episode 3 with the following changes.

• More relevant deaths should happen. I would have Brienne die here, her story came full circle when she was knighted by Jaime, to have her survive just to fuck Jaime in the next episode is just meaningless fan service. I would also have Sam die, his story also ended when he told Jon his heritage. 
• Meera Reed and the crannogmen are stationed in the godswood with Bran and Theon. Meera is obviously angry with Bran and Bran has a talk with Meera before the battle, about how he's sorry about her father and he wishes he could tell her in a better way. It's just as dispassionate as everything Bran says but Meera can tell he's trying. She looks at him sadly before fading into the trees. 
• There's more of a battle in the godswood, the crannogmen attack from the shadows, killing the White Walkers and wights. Meera strikes her frog spear (now tipped with dragonglass), into the Night King's leg, hobbling him. He kills her as Bran looks on dispassionately. Theon also wounds the Night King (preferably in the same leg) before falling. (The way it is the Night King goes from full victory formation to utter defeat instantly, it needs to have more ebb and flow IMO)
• Jon reaches the godswood and engages in a duel with the Night King. Jon appears to be winning until the Night King strikes a crushing blow and Longclaw shatters as Jon attempts to block it. 
• As the Night King prepares to kill Jon, Arya arrives (this makes sense now because everyone in the godswood is dead/fallen except Bran, Jon and the Night King himself), she leaps at the Night King and he grabs her just like before. Jon takes the shattered hilt of Longclaw and stabs it into the Night King's leg where Meera/Theon had wounded him before, his leg shatters and he drops Arya. Arya swiftly stabs the Night King directly in the heart with the catspaw dagger, and ends the battle.

Episode 6 - The Last of the Starks - I liked a good deal of this episode too, so I won't be changing too much.

• In addition to the Dany/Jorah, Sansa/Theon, and Arya/Beric sequences at the mass cremation we have one with Jaime/Brienne where he takes Oathkeeper from her, and one with Jon/Sam where he puts a dragonglass dagger on his pyre with him. We also see a dead Meera Reed on a pyre, but Bran does not react. 
• Jaime is obviously distraught at the loss of Brienne at the celebration feast later, Tyrion attempts to comfort him but he's having none of it. Tyrion tells Jaime that a raven arrived bringing news of Cersei's wedding. 
• Jaime prepares to leave Winterfell, Tyrion asks him where he's going and we get a replay of Brienne and Jaime's leaving Winterfell scene, but with Tyrion and Jaime. We see that Jaime has left Widow's Wail and Oathkeeper behind at the smithy. 
• Dany and Jon have their meeting and she again proposes marriage. He says he can't, she's his aunt. She tells him that dragon has wed dragon for generations. If they had grown up together in the Red Keep, Rhaegar and her father might well have betrothed them to each other. He tells her his family won't understand that, and she tells him that she is his family and maybe repeats Jaime's line about "By what right does the wolf judge the [dragon]?" He balks again, and she says if he will not marry her, to at least not tell his family. This sets up a more pointed Stark/Targaryen faceoff. 
• Jon meets Sansa and Arya in the godswood and they present him with a reforged Ice that Gendry made from Widow's Wail and Oathkeeper. He says he can't take father's sword cause he isn't a Stark, Sansa tells him that he is a Stark, and that Ned would want it this way. Arya points out practically that he needs a new sword after Longclaw shattered, and that he's the only one of them that can wield it. The scene then plays out like it usually does. 
• As Jon prepares to leave Winterfell we see him still carrying Ice, this subtly points out that his ultimate loyalty is to the Starks (in addition to him going South on horse and not on Rhaegal)
• On ship, Tyrion reluctantly informs Dany that the castle at Dragonstone is flying the Lion of Lannister. In anger she takes to the sky on Drogon to take the castle back, Tyrion and Varys try to persuade her not to. Dany arrives at Dragonstone to find the castle empty again and no resistance, she looks back to the sea and sees the Iron Fleet kill an obviously still injured Rhaegal and begin their assault on the ships. 
• The rest of the episode plays out like it normally does, except when Cersei is executing Missandei she is VERY pregnant, like fit to pop. This will lend more weight to Tyrions "Think of your child" argument.

Whew. Ok that's all I can come up with now. Maybe I'll try and crank out the last 6 episodes at another time. 

Edited May 21, 2019 by Maximum Taco

[BooBear]

11 minutes ago, Maximum Taco said:

There should be elephants. Why should we stand on the practicality of elephants travelling by sea when we won't stand on any other kind of practicality?

As an aside, is anyone else annoyed and wondering why it seemed like this season had no money? I expected HBO to have thrown money at it but it seems to me every single corner was cut that could be.

• There is this.. no elephants.
• Coffee cups not removed.
• Episode three, very dark, IMHO very dark to hide CGI.
• We can't get Ghost because of cost / CGI?
• A very small core cast in like 3 locations?  (why was Kings Landing the Sahara now?) I mean they seemingly didn't care at all about using CGI to cover that up. 
• The night kings dragon doing hardly anything. 

I suspect even some of these plot points were cost decisions. 

[RobertDeSneero]

Elephants add nothing to the story.  Using them would just be stupid fanservice.  Ghost isn't a significant character.  I wish they'd had wights tear him apart so I didn't have to see any more complaining about him.

I think they cut the season down to six episodes (with a runtime equivalent to eight episodes) because they were spending a ton of time and money.  This season took longer to shoot than previous seasons and they spent more per episode than previous seasons.  They spent a ton of money on two big battles, so I don't see this season as cutting corners.

[Maximum Taco]

2 minutes ago, RobertDeSneero said:

Elephants add nothing to the story.  Using them would just be stupid fanservice. 

Agreed, but if that's the case they shouldn't be mentioned at all. 

If you draw attention to something, it should be significant, or atleast should appear. Cersei asking about elephants means we should see elephants. 

[Constantinople]

8 minutes ago, Maximum Taco said:

Agreed, but if that's the case they shouldn't be mentioned at all. 

If you draw attention to something, it should be significant, or atleast should appear. Cersei asking about elephants means we should see elephants. 

We didn't even get My elephant, my elephant, my kingdom for an elephant! when all was lost

[Constantinople]

I think the problems predate Season 8

Daenerys should have either attacked King's Landing in Episode 2 of Season 7, or had a much better reason for delaying an attack than innocent people die in war.

Another thing that always bugged me was how easily Highgarden was taken in Season 7. The suggestion is the Tyrell army just isn't the same caliber as the Lannister army.  That seems unlikely given how rich the Tyrells were. Not a critical point, but sooner or later the willingness to suspend disbelief is lost.

[Maximum Taco]

23 minutes ago, Constantinople said:

I think the problems predate Season 8

Daenerys should have either attacked King's Landing in Episode 2 of Season 7, or had a much better reason for delaying an attack than innocent people die in war.

Another thing that always bugged me was how easily Highgarden was taken in Season 7. The suggestion is the Tyrell army just isn't the same caliber as the Lannister army.  That seems unlikely given how rich the Tyrells were. Not a critical point, but sooner or later the willingness to suspend disbelief is lost.

The problems start when D&D run out of book material, or decide to skip over entire portions in favor of other portions (Lady Stoneheart for weird Beric story that goes nowhere.), or insert characters into story arcs where they they don't belong (read: Sansa into Jeyne Poole's story)

But the quest in this thread is to fix Season 8, I assume that means we can't go back and rewrite previous seasons. 

[RobertDeSneero]

44 minutes ago, Maximum Taco said:

Agreed, but if that's the case they shouldn't be mentioned at all. 

If you draw attention to something, it should be significant, or atleast should appear. Cersei asking about elephants means we should see elephants. 

Mentioning elephants was a reward for bookreaders.

[Maximum Taco]

2 minutes ago, RobertDeSneero said:

Mentioning elephants was a reward for bookreaders.

That's a shitty reward. 

[RobertDeSneero]

34 minutes ago, Constantinople said:

Another thing that always bugged me was how easily Highgarden was taken in Season 7. The suggestion is the Tyrell army just isn't the same caliber as the Lannister army.  That seems unlikely given how rich the Tyrells were. Not a critical point, but sooner or later the willingness to suspend disbelief is lost.

It depends on how big of a blow it was for the Tyrells to see House Tarly defect to the Lannister side.

4 minutes ago, Maximum Taco said:

That's a shitty reward. 

Easter Eggs aren't supposed to be major things.

[Maximum Taco]

9 minutes ago, RobertDeSneero said:

Easter Eggs aren't supposed to be major things.

Easter Eggs aren't supposed to be obvious things that are pointed to. 

In Iron Man you see Capt. America's shield in the background for a few seconds, in Iron Man 2 Tony Stark uses it as a strut to level a coil. He doesn't pick it up and go "HOLY FUCK CAPT. AMERICA'S SHIELD!!!" 

In Detective Pikachu the main character doesn't get a phone call from Professor Oak, instead you see a sign that says OAK outside a building for a couple seconds. 

Talking about it, and having a whole scene devoted to it, makes it a plot point and not an Easter Egg. 

Edited May 19, 2019 by Maximum Taco

[BooBear]

25 minutes ago, Maximum Taco said:

Talking about it, and having a whole scene devoted to it, makes it a plot point and not an Easter Egg. 

Ok the elephants were one thing but there were several others that seemed like they were trying to save money? That strikes me as bizarre as it would seem this season would have a large budget. Ironically, looking back I would have been happy to give up some of the battle episodes for more character development. 

[Maximum Taco]

2 minutes ago, BooBear said:

Ok the elephants were one thing but there were several others that seemed like they were trying to save money? That strikes me as bizarre as it would seem this season would have a large budget. Ironically, looking back I would have been happy to give up some of the battle episodes for more character development. 

I don't think they were trying to save money persay, but I do think they had a budget, and this season was clearly the most expensive since the mains (Lena Headey, Peter Dinklage, Emilia Clarke, Kit Harington, NCW, Sophie Turner, Maisie Williams etc.) all needed to have new contracts since most standard contracts only go to season 7. 

And then they wanted to have 2 episodes with huge battles that required a lot of CGI in addition to a lot of extra work. 

So they cut the episode order in half in order to accommodate that. I think Season 8 probably had a comparable budget to previous seasons though. 

If it was feasible I think they should've done a Season 8 that just comprised the War for the Dawn, and kept this budget, and then had a Season 9 with a similar budget to wrap up on the fight for the Iron Throne. But they probably had a lot of issues with the cast getting to be too big to afford.

[Coxfires]

1 minute ago, Maximum Taco said:

I don't think they were trying to save money persay, but I do think they had a budget, and this season was clearly the most expensive since the mains (Lena Headey, Peter Dinklage, Emilia Clarke, Kit Harington, NCW, Sophie Turner, Maisie Williams etc.) all needed to have new contracts since most standard contracts only go to season 7. 

And then they wanted to have 2 episodes with huge battles that required a lot of CGI in addition to a lot of extra work. 

So they cut the episode order in half in order to accommodate that. I think Season 8 probably had a comparable budget to previous seasons though. 

If it was feasible I think they should've done a Season 8 that just comprised the War for the Dawn, and kept this budget, and then had a Season 9 with a similar budget to wrap up on the fight for the Iron Throne. But they probably had a lot of issues with the cast getting to be too big to afford.

Except that HBO was ready to pay for 10 episodes or even more, so definitely not a budget issue apart from the one D&D created by wanting to be done in 6 episodes. GoT was HBO major show bringing viewers and money, if they could have kept it going they would have, so I don't think the cast salaries has anything To do with it 

[Maximum Taco]

1 minute ago, Coxfires said:

Except that HBO was ready to pay for 10 episodes or even more, so definitely not a budget issue apart from the one D&D created by wanting to be done in 6 episodes. GoT was HBO major show bringing viewers and money, if they could have kept it going they would have, so I don't think the cast salaries has anything To do with it 

Did they want 10 episodes at a hard cost and D&D said we can only do 6 episodes at that cost?

Or did HBO write them a blank cheque and say "Go Wild." and they just decided to do 6?

Honestly we can't know either way. I suspect that D&D just wanted to be done with it, but at the same time HBO must have given them a budget. 

[hypnotoad]

I think Dany should have taken KL right after she got to Westros. Cersei dies. The citizens are unsure of her but willing to see how it goes. There are also houses that still support Targs and are happy to see her.

Jon arrives in KL to talk to her about the Army of the Dead. Though I hated the whole go and get a wite to prove something to Cersei - they could still go North to show Dany the threat or bring a wite back to show the Southern houses. One dragon can still be lost.

Dany vows to protect the realm against the threat and Dany and Jon fall in love while bonding over this fight. We actually see bonding and falling in love.

Season 8 is all about the fight with the NK. The fight starts at Winterfell but continues South. Our heroes lose some and win some battles but the Army of the Dead grows. The people start losing faith in Dany if she cannot defeat the NK with 2 dragons.  She grows more unsure of herself - losing her army etc etc.

Anyway something like that would have made more sense to me.

[RobertDeSneero]

36 minutes ago, Maximum Taco said:

If it was feasible I think they should've done a Season 8 that just comprised the War for the Dawn, and kept this budget, and then had a Season 9 with a similar budget to wrap up on the fight for the Iron Throne. But they probably had a lot of issues with the cast getting to be too big to afford.

The problem is that they had the Night King un-build that wall at the end of season 7.  If the final battle is supposed to be at Winterfell, how many episodes are you going to take to get there?  I think your plan requires moving the wight hunt to Season 8, which would leave Season 7 pretty thin and in need of filler.

[Snowball II]

2 hours ago, Constantinople said:

I think the problems predate Season 8

Daenerys should have either attacked King's Landing in Episode 2 of Season 7, or had a much better reason for delaying an attack than innocent people die in war.

Another thing that always bugged me was how easily Highgarden was taken in Season 7. The suggestion is the Tyrell army just isn't the same caliber as the Lannister army.  That seems unlikely given how rich the Tyrells were. Not a critical point, but sooner or later the willingness to suspend disbelief is lost.

Since Loras was one of the best fighters in Westeros, I have to agree. 

[dirtypop90]

This is hard. I would need to re-do season 7 too.  I would scrap the Dany/Jon romance and make them adversaries in season 7.  The love affair was never believable and made the lead, Jon, less interesting which was bad for the show.  I would’ve had Dany attack King’s Landing in season 7.  Her handling of King’s Landing (mass destruction was unavoidable) causes the North not to bend the knee.  Cersei dies in season 7 during the attack (I know I’m dreaming).  Tyrion switches to team North after KL massacre.  Jon still goes to Dany for help with the Night King.  North and Dany make temporary truce.   Jon find out he’s a targ, which softens him toward Dany while they are battle planning.  He ends up trying to save her from her fate, death by treason.  They bond over being family.   They defeat the NK.  Jaime lives up to his kingslayer rep and kills Dany.  Jon kills Jaime.  Jon rules.

Edited May 20, 2019 by dirtypop90

[DollEyes]

There should have been at least 10 episodes, the NK /wight battle should have been the series finale, Dany should have flown straight to the castle-no collateral damage- and given Cersei the choice to bend the knee or die or taken her prisoner. 

Greyworm &Missandei would have died together because they would have deserved it, unlike Jaime & Cersei. 

Edited May 20, 2019 by DollEyes

[Zuleikha]

I really like Maximum Taco's beats above, but I'll still throw out some of my own suggestions. I'm confining myself to s8 and taking as a constraint that Bran needs to end up on the throne and Dany needs to die in an antagonist role. I'm not as good to be able to do this on an episode by episode basis.

In my beginning, I have the Night King fly on Viserion to bypass the North entirely while his Army of the Dead surrounds the houses in a blockade as the Long Night stretches. Sansa worries about food. Dany, Tyrion, and Jon argue about how best to use the army, with Jon and Tyrion wanting Dany to fly on the dragons to attack the Night King in King's Landing while her forces join the Northmen to battle the Army of the Dead in the North. Dany doesn't want to split her forces. Grey Worm and Missandei provide a voice for Dany's forces POV and establishing a bit about Dany's as well, talking about feeling unwelcome and uncomfortable in this strange land. 

The Night King raises a new army and marches on King's Landing. And I'd go ahead and have ep 1 ended with the Night King killing a visibly pregnant Cersei. This would pay off Cersei's failure to taking the Night King/White Walker seriously, let the Long Night stretch on without straining the credibility of Winterfell standing, and create a space to start prepping the audience for Dany's heel turn.

Over some amount of episodes, we get a multiple months long passage of time. The Army of the Dead spreads throughout the Southern Kingdoms as Winter and the Long Night continue. We get montage shots to show the small folk suffering and some sense that the highborn are confiscating food and warm clothing from the small folk in order to suffer less. We have a combination of skirmishes with wights as the Winterfell folk try to figure out an effective strategy and our magical knowledge folk (Bran, Sam, Melisandre who will appear at some point) expositioning and testing various magical things. Because I love Lena Headey, Cersei is resurrected as an ice wight and maybe for some horror movie body horror, so is the unborn baby. Maybe for visuals and to do something with them, we can see ice spread over the ocean and freeze the fleet of the Iron Islands. Euron and Yara temporarily reunite to try and protect the Iron Islands. 

Throughout all of this, the show builds the growing tension among our core characters at Winterfell. No one trusts Jamie or Melisandre but everyone recognizes their skills are needed. There can be some back-and-forth victories with Dany's dragons and Melisandre's fire magic liberating some of the households from the Army of the Dead blockade even as the food situation/morale situation continues to grow dire. One of the major conflicts is Dany opposing the highborn confiscating food and provisions from the smallfolk, with Sansa/Tyrion supporting this as necessary for the greater good. We see Bran's POV as he goes deeper into the past, trying to learn a weakness of the Night King and a way to end the Long Night. We also see him warg into ravens and use them to pass messages/learn what's going on in the other parts of the world (including Essos because why not? We were invested in that world, so let's get periodic updates)

Midseason will culminate with the final battle for the Dawn, but it will happen at King's Landing instead of Winterfell. Dany and Tyrion will destroy large amounts of ice wights and large parts of King's Landing over the course of the battle with dragon's fire and wildfire pockets. Viserion and Rhaegal destroy each other. Melisandre does fire magicky things. Bran wargs into ravens to give various strategy messages and into Ghost to be part of attacking the Night King. I'd go fan servicey and have a combo of Bran-warging-into-Ghost, Jon, and Arya take down the Night King with some magical assistance from Melisandre. Jamie kills ice wight Cersei. After battle, we see ice starting to melt in the ocean, the first rays of dawn, and Dany ascending to the Iron Throne with Drogon next to her and staring at the smoldering ruins of King's Landing, with music sound triumphant but with an ominous undertone. This give us some emotional warning and multiple episodes to establish what's going to happen with Dany's arc (this got long, so I'll do second part in a second post). 

Edited May 20, 2019 by Zuleikha

[DarkRaichu]

Everything up to episode 3 when NK was about to kill Bran, then episode ends.

Episode 4 starts with the captain of Golden Company being rescued from shipwreck near Braavos.  He was telling what happened with Westeros.  The flashbacks basically contained cutscenes / flashes of hordes of undead including Jon and Dany on dead dragons killing everything on Westeros.  Then he died while saying "they are coming east"

End scene of Arya finding a white horse in the ruins of Winterfell and GTF out of there

The End

[BooBear]

On 5/19/2019 at 1:38 PM, BooBear said:

As an aside, is anyone else annoyed and wondering why it seemed like this season had no money? I expected HBO to have thrown money at it but it seems to me every single corner was cut that could be.

• There is this.. no elephants.
• Coffee cups not removed.
• Episode three, very dark, IMHO very dark to hide CGI.
• We can't get Ghost because of cost / CGI?
• A very small core cast in like 3 locations?  (why was Kings Landing the Sahara now?) I mean they seemingly didn't care at all about using CGI to cover that up. 
• The night kings dragon doing hardly anything. 

I suspect even some of these plot points were cost decisions. 

And apparently now we have to add a water bottle being caught in the scene. 

[Zuleikha]

OK, second half of my version of the season (which is probably 8 episodes... definitely more than 6 but I think with some effective montages and signs of time passing wouldn't need to be 10)

The goal with Dany's turn is to make her a Hugo Chavez/Fidel Castro type of threat and not a Hitler threat. While light returns post-Night King, Westeros is still in the grips of winter and dangerously hungry. Dany publicly burns Euron to establish Yara as queen of the independent Iron Islands. Dany and Yara use Yara's fleet to bring food supplies from Essos to Westeros. She prioritizes smallfolk first based on need. Ellaria Sand was freed from the Red Keep and Dorne also helps (but traumatized version of Ellaria is already more skittish and skeptical of Dany than Yara). 

Over the next few episodes, we get tension as the highborn grow fearful of Dany's affinity for the smallfolk. Dany brutally confiscates lands and redistributes them among smallfolk. Sansa, Tyrion, and Varys all worry that Dany doesn't understand what she's doing and is destablizing Westeros's economy. They argue to Jon that Dany's actions are dangerous and will result in chaos, starvation, and more bloodshed. They also conspire together to create support for Jon/Aegon on the Iron Throne, regardless of Jon's wishes (Bran has confirmed Jon's heritage to Sansa/Tyrion and possibly been used to provide a Rhaegar/Lyanna flashback telling more about Rhaegar's motivations). And because why not? Arya, Brienne, Missandei, and Grey Worm have all been bonding together in conversations about being uncertain of their place and purpose in Dany's Westeros Realm.

Missandei and Grey Worm petition Dany to be released from her service to retire to Naath. Dany reminds them they are free and lets them go but immediately after they are gone, learns that the Iron Islands have been reaving again (due to food insecurity from Winter). Dany flies on Drogon, burns the fleet and many people, and forces Yara to bend the knee at dragon-point, which officially ends the Iron Islands independence.

This formally starts Dany's more villainous turn as all the tensions with the highborn reach a boiling point. She removes various Highborn leaders from their lands and installs a smallfolk leader in their place. Things spiral fairly quickly as the smallfolk view Dany as their champion, but the highborn rally behind the idea of replacing her with Jon. Jon, himself, is uncertain what to do. From Bran's warging, Jon learns that Essos is doing well. But he is uncomfortable with what he's seen of her brutal justice--overseeing deaths through crucifixions and dragon burning and also encouraging the smallfolk to mete this justice on the high born. Dany learns of the Tyrion/Varys/Sansa conspiracy to replace her with Aegon/Jon. Dany burns Varys and imprisons Tyrion, with the intention of a public crucifixion. Jon is afraid for Sansa but also angry about being used as a figurehead for resistance without his consent.

 I liked Dany's speech to Jon, so I would keep it, but now it would be clearer what she means by liberation. Ideally, the highborn/smallfolk stuff would be done well enough that there would be people on Dany's side. I think I would play the scene similarly to what really happened, but I would have Bran warg into Drogon to let Jon escape and to melt the Iron Throne (and possibly have Arya take Jon's face rather than actual Jon, since he's technically dead. But I can't remember how the mechanics of the faces work, so that would only be if she could give it back to Jon). 

Small council first tries to install Jon on the throne as Aegon but Jon is too disgusted by the game of Thrones and sad about Dany's death. He voluntarily leaves to join the Free Folk. Sam argues for a democracy to install a new leader, echoing some of Dany's rhetoric. He's laughed at and dismissed. Sansa and Tyrion work together to manipulate the council to install Bran, arguing that he is the most objective leader and that his warging abilities will let him functionally cross distances to rule fairly. Bran agrees and installs Tyrion as hand. However, Sansa, Yara, and Ellaria insist on independence for their respective kingdoms. Arya still leaves to explore, feeling she has no place anywhere. Green shoots appear through the snow.

[Bryce Lynch]

There are a lot of great possibilities, but I will stick to what I would not have done.

1) I would not have had Daenerys turn so suddenly and so horribly.  If they were going to have her turn, they needed to either have her commit some sort of morally questionable or bad act that was not has pure evil first, or have the horrible act she committed be at least more debatable or understandable and in character.  

For example, if she ordered the Unsullied and Dothraki to kill thousands of surrendered troops.  Or instead of hunting down and torching tens of thousands of innocent civilians, after the battle was won, they could have had her torch the Red Keep, with 10,000 innocent human shields inside, because she thought it was the only way to win or because she wanted to minimize her own losses.

2) I would not have had Dany (and all her military commanders) "sort of forget about the Iron Fleet".  That was idiotic writing.  Varys had mentioned that the Greyjoy Fleet had brought the Golden Company to KL, during the war council in episode 4.  They were well aware of the Iron Fleet.

3) I would have ended the show with just about anybody but Bran the Boring as ruler.  I would have been fine with a dark ending with Cersei and or Euron  or Dark Genocidal Dany ruling.  Or they could have had Good Dany and/or Jon ruling, or both of them dying tragically and Gendry, Davos, or one of the other Lords or Ladies ruling.  Even Unle Edmure would have been a better choice.  He is at least still a human being, and we know more about his character than we know about Bran.   

Bran was the absolute, worst possible choice.  It made no sense.  He repeatedly said he was no longer Bran and could not be Lord of Winterfell.  We also have no real idea about what motivates him (if he is motivated at all) and whether he is good, evil or an amoral robot.  

4) I would not have had Grey Worm allow co-conspirators, relatives and friends of his Queen's assassin choose a person to decide his punishment.   Either Grey Worm should have been convinced the Jon did what had to be done, and let him go, or Jon should have escaped with help from Arya or others, or Jon should have been executed.  

[Chaos Theory]

Maybe end it the same way Angel the series ended it.   Dany on the Throne.  Does her free the world speech and The Starks take it as a declaration of war on the North and gather an army of whoever took Dany burning down Kings Landing as a threat.    The show ends with both forces gathering.  Sansa leading one.  Dany the other.   Sansa turns to Arya as they discuss how to move forward with the battle.  The dragon screams...and Arya looks up and says simply “I don’t know about anyone else but i’m going after the dragon.”

End show.

Edited May 21, 2019 by Chaos Theory

[Uncle JUICE]

If limiting myself to Season 8:

• Either no Golden Company (nameless Lannister forces could have done exactly what they did without the disappointment) or demonstrate why the Golden Company was so revered. Send the army of Dorne to KL to avenge Ellaria Sand / Oberyn and have the GC wipe them out. This solves two problems: gives the Golden Company some cache, and lets the viewer know that Dorne's forces still exist. THe savvy viewer will be extra impressed because the Dornish army is extremely formidable.
• Don't let Dany know about Jon's parentage until E5, because it could have been very useful in pushing her down the path of madness. She could find out about it right before they head down, and then start to get paranoid about who's using it against her. They did nothing with this information except make Jon not want to fuck her anymore anyway, and it gets us a better idea of why she did what she did in KL.
• DO NOT have Jaime fuck Brienne at all. That was never part of their relationship, especially when two eps before she's telling him they've had only conversations where he insults her, which is simply not true. You cannot do that to this warrior, have her in a robe crying in the driveway when he's all "Gotta go back to my BAE. Later." 
• Have Bran solve the wight dragon problem by warging into it. This helps us understand not only his powers but the point of having him around at all. Hell if you really want to get some impact, have Bran warg into the dragon, then have him start blue flaming the army of the dead, forcing the Night King to either "re kill" Viserion or jump off. OR, have Bran warg into it, dive bomb it directly into the ground, breaking its neck and in the process sacrificing himself. And thereby ridding us of Bran the Broken. 
• Have either Jaime or Brienne die at the battle of Winterfell. 
• Leave Sam at the Citadel and have him communicate the stuff about parentage early though scrolls only. He serves no purpose narratively and last time I checked, the CItadel does not offer online courses so you can be an archmaester in like six weeks. 
• Have the Iron Fleet destroyed and Euron with it. There's no reason to take away Rhaegal given how easily only one dragon destroys KL. Two functions exactly the same, and having him die like that only made viewers go "What the fuck??? How did he not see that?"
• Have Danerys and Cersei in a scene after the surrender where Cersei is sentenced to die and then dracaryzed in view of the citizens and lords of the realm. Make a statement and show reason to fear her. Or, have Danerys fly directly to the red keep window and roast her, the Mountain and Qyburn. This limits the castle collapse but still kills Sandor, lesson is don't pursue revenge at peril of your own life. 
• Have Arya use a faceless man power PLEASE. 

[RoberTee]

First give it two more full seasons so things don't get rushed. I actually liked most of the plot points of the finale (Dany goes mad after losing everything and Jon has to kill her to save the Seven Kingdoms is a perfect ending for their arcs), but everything was so rushed that none of the characters choices made sense. We should've seen Jon and Dany relationship develop more, while at the same time the works around her crumbles and she descends into tyranny. 

Like I said, the biggest problem is still D&D refusing those extra two seasons HBO was willing to give. 

Jon killing Dany, the biggest climax of the whole show, was supposed to be the toughest decision of his life, not only because she was his queen and he's a man of honor, but because he was suppose to be genuinely in love with her. 

But what happened is he bent the knee, had sex with her and found out they're related in literally three episodes (7x06 - 8x01), so we never actually saw them happy for long, so why are we supposed to care about their relationship drama? 

Whilst, for example, the Jon/Ygritte arc developed through three seasons, from the time they meet (2x06) until he burns her body beyond the wall (4x10).

And the same goes for pretty much every plot point this season. This could've ended exactly this way and be brilliant, if only they took the time to develop what happened. 

That said, everything that happened post- Jon killing Dany was absolute non-sense. I posted this on the episode thread, but here it goes. After Jon killed Dany, this is what I wanted to happen:

"Seeing his Mother dead, Drogon goes on a grieving rage and burns the Throne Room, Jon included. Flames everywhere. The Iron Throne melts. Suddenly, through the fire, comes Jon Snow, aka Aegon Targaryen, naked (mirroring Daenerys at the end of season 1, reborn from the flames). Drogon knows "fire cannot kill dragon" so he turns his back on Naked Jon/Aegon, takes Daenerys body and flies away. As he leaves, we see Grey Worm at the door, who just realized what happened. Grey Worm and Naked Jon/Aegon have an epic fight amongst the flames in the Throne Room, and Naked Jon/Aegon ends up killing him, not without giving him a chance to surrender first. A bleeding, fatally wounded Naked Jon/Aegon leaves the Throne Room and is assisted by Davos (mirroring season 6, when Jon Snow comes back to life, naked and falls into Davos arms). "What have you done?!", Davos shouts. Naked Jon/Aegon asks for Arya. She arrives. "I was brought back for a reason... And now my watch has ended." Naked Jon/Aegon dies in Arya's arm, who cries over her brother's body. This scene is intercut with scenes of Ghost, still in Winterfell, howling. Cut to Bran, in the Godswood, hearing Ghost and realizing what happened. He's emotionless. Cut to Sansa, in the Great Hall, sheding a single tear. Cut to the Godswood again but now Bran's chair is empty. The camera lingers on the Old Tree, suggesting that now that the world is safe at last, he officially became the Three Eyed Raven and merged with the tree. Cut again to Arya holding Dead Naked Jon/Aegon, and then Drogon crossing the Narrow Sea, with Daenerys, arriving to Essos, her true home. Some time later Tyrion assembles a Council Meeting to decide who will rule the Seven Kingdoms. Since the last Targaryen are dead, so should the Seven Kingdoms, which were united by the Aegon the Conqueror. Therefore it's only fit to break them apart after the death of the last Aegon Targaryen. The North will be ruled by Sansa Stark; the Iron Islands will be ruled by Yara Greyjoy; The Westerlands will be ruled by Tyrion Lannister; The Reach will be ruled by Samwell Tarly; the Stormlands will be ruled by Gendry Baratheon; Dorne will be ruled by whomever is there already; and Dragonstone will be given to Davos Seaworth. Arya sails west anyway. Brienne becomes Queensguard to Sansa. The show ends with a raven (is it Bran?) flying over Westeros, watching each Kingdom try to rebuild itself after the horrors of the war, sort of like a live-action version of the opening credits. The raven then goes beyond the abandoned wall, we see the wildings, Tormund, Ghost... The raven keeps flying north, where there's pretty much nothing more than darkness. As the screen starts fading to black, we see two blue eyes. THE END."

[Stallion12]

On 5/19/2019 at 9:08 AM, BooBear said:

I am just going to go with what they wrote. I am not sure increasing episodes would have done anything because most of season 7, imho, was a stall and a waste of time.  It seems that D&D didn't know how to get to a satisfying ending and only knew how to continue plot arcs that GRRM started. But,

• Dany would not smile when her dragons scared the northerners.
• Dany would not make any scary threats when Sansa seemed cold to her. 
• I would have cut the Jon rides a dragon scene from the first episode and had Jon do that in desperation in episode 3 - maybe to get to Bran.
• The entire thing with Sam would have been done differently. Jon would have run into him in the court yard early on. Sam would tell Jon about his background. Jon would tell Sam about his dad.  
• Sansa and Arya would have more to do with Dany and Jon.
• The night king battle would have had the army behind the walls of winterfell.
• One dragon would have guarded the other taking out the army fo the dead either for the air or on the ground.
• People watching from the inside would be overwhelmed and thrilled with Dany and her Dragons. 
• Jon would make it to protect Bran against the night king but would look to be losing. 
• Arya would come out of no place and take out the night king.
• Jon would be amazed at what Arya can now do.
• Jamie, Brianne, and many more would die during the battle.
• Dany would be a big hero. Sansa would apologize for not trusting her. 
• Time would pass before going after Cersie.
• Yara would take out Euron.
• The army would take out or start to take out the golden company.
• Dany will take out Cersie and the red keep. 
• Cersei will escape and lose her baby.
• Dany will take the iron throne. 
• John chooses to go north and restart the nights watch --but for some good reason like in case the walkers come back.  He will never tell anyone about his Targaryen background. 
• Sansa is Warden in the north. 
• Last scene. Cersie with her minions smugly drinking her wine thinking she escaped and Jamie finds her... strangles her, the look on her face is shock and horror, once done Arya is the killer and crosses Cerise's name off her list. 

This might not be shock and horror but to me it would have been satisfying. 

I'd have loved that. 

[Umbelina]

I love the ending.

I don't like how the show got there though.  More personal moments, less blockbuster action movie CGI, or hell, keep all that fabulous CGI, but add in more focus on each character and their relationships.

Especially BRAN.

Oh, and Dany and Jon "being in love."

I also wish they had dropped the retcon of Cersei caring about her children, or really, having any kind of decent bone in her body.  Because?  She really doesn't.

[Stallion12]

4 hours ago, RoberTee said:

First give it two more full seasons so things don't get rushed. I actually liked most of the plot points of the finale (Dany goes mad after losing everything and Jon has to kill her to save the Seven Kingdoms is a perfect ending for their arcs), but everything was so rushed that none of the characters choices made sense. We should've seen Jon and Dany relationship develop more, while at the same time the works around her crumbles and she descends into tyranny. 

Like I said, the biggest problem is still D&D refusing those extra two seasons HBO was willing to give. 

Jon killing Dany, the biggest climax of the whole show, was supposed to be the toughest decision of his life, not only because she was his queen and he's a man of honor, but because he was suppose to be genuinely in love with her. 

But what happened is he bent the knee, had sex with her and found out they're related in literally three episodes (7x06 - 8x01), so we never actually saw them happy for long, so why are we supposed to care about their relationship drama? 

Whilst, for example, the Jon/Ygritte arc developed through three seasons, from the time they meet (2x06) until he burns her body beyond the wall (4x10).

And the same goes for pretty much every plot point this season. This could've ended exactly this way and be brilliant, if only they took the time to develop what happened. 

That said, everything that happened post- Jon killing Dany was absolute non-sense. I posted this on the episode thread, but here it goes. After Jon killed Dany, this is what I wanted to happen:

"Seeing his Mother dead, Drogon goes on a grieving rage and burns the Throne Room, Jon included. Flames everywhere. The Iron Throne melts. Suddenly, through the fire, comes Jon Snow, aka Aegon Targaryen, naked (mirroring Daenerys at the end of season 1, reborn from the flames). Drogon knows "fire cannot kill dragon" so he turns his back on Naked Jon/Aegon, takes Daenerys body and flies away. As he leaves, we see Grey Worm at the door, who just realized what happened. Grey Worm and Naked Jon/Aegon have an epic fight amongst the flames in the Throne Room, and Naked Jon/Aegon ends up killing him, not without giving him a chance to surrender first. A bleeding, fatally wounded Naked Jon/Aegon leaves the Throne Room and is assisted by Davos (mirroring season 6, when Jon Snow comes back to life, naked and falls into Davos arms). "What have you done?!", Davos shouts. Naked Jon/Aegon asks for Arya. She arrives. "I was brought back for a reason... And now my watch has ended." Naked Jon/Aegon dies in Arya's arm, who cries over her brother's body. This scene is intercut with scenes of Ghost, still in Winterfell, howling. Cut to Bran, in the Godswood, hearing Ghost and realizing what happened. He's emotionless. Cut to Sansa, in the Great Hall, sheding a single tear. Cut to the Godswood again but now Bran's chair is empty. The camera lingers on the Old Tree, suggesting that now that the world is safe at last, he officially became the Three Eyed Raven and merged with the tree. Cut again to Arya holding Dead Naked Jon/Aegon, and then Drogon crossing the Narrow Sea, with Daenerys, arriving to Essos, her true home. Some time later Tyrion assembles a Council Meeting to decide who will rule the Seven Kingdoms. Since the last Targaryen are dead, so should the Seven Kingdoms, which were united by the Aegon the Conqueror. Therefore it's only fit to break them apart after the death of the last Aegon Targaryen. The North will be ruled by Sansa Stark; the Iron Islands will be ruled by Yara Greyjoy; The Westerlands will be ruled by Tyrion Lannister; The Reach will be ruled by Samwell Tarly; the Stormlands will be ruled by Gendry Baratheon; Dorne will be ruled by whomever is there already; and Dragonstone will be given to Davos Seaworth. Arya sails west anyway. Brienne becomes Queensguard to Sansa. The show ends with a raven (is it Bran?) flying over Westeros, watching each Kingdom try to rebuild itself after the horrors of the war, sort of like a live-action version of the opening credits. The raven then goes beyond the abandoned wall, we see the wildings, Tormund, Ghost... The raven keeps flying north, where there's pretty much nothing more than darkness. As the screen starts fading to black, we see two blue eyes. THE END."

Wow, that works well.

[SNeaker]

Both Seasons 7 and 8 would need to be redone to be honest.

Similar to Zuleikha (hi!) above, I think Dany's story after arriving in Westeros should have led to her becoming a populist. Once she gets the throne she pisses off the ruling houses -- led by people we the audience have come to love, including the Starks -- because she wants to end or at least lessen their power over their serfs. Those leaders turn around and rebel and the ensuing civil war reeks devastation because now it's with dragons. This would be in keeping with her actions in Essos where she loses control because she's trying to take down hierarchical systems faster than the people can handle it The ensuing economic damage causes the people themselves to rebel against her. This could lead her down a place where she blames the people for not being capable of handling freedom, loses her idealism, and burns it all down.

[Spartan Girl]

Agree with Emilia Clarke that we should have gotten more scenes with Dany and Missandei. 

I also would have liked Dany and Tyrion to reminisce about Ser Jorah after the battle of Winterfell.  Hey, that would have been a better way for Tyrion to find out about Jon's heritage: Dany would have lamented about not loving Jorah the way she loved Jon, and Tyrion would suggest marriage, and Dany gets all tense, and Tyrion would give her the rap about "I know I'm screwing up but I'm still your Hand and you can trust me..."

[Francie]

Short term, if just allowed to make some tweaks to the season? And if we're assuming all the major plot points were GRRM's, so we're committed to them? 

Small picture:  Not have Cersei murder Missandei.  Cersei knew back in Season 1 that the best thing to do with a hostage is keep him or her alive. Cersei should have strapped Missandei in like a baby bjourn, using Missandei as her personal human shield. Rather than Dany going mad over the bells, have her be pissed that she can't kill Cersei, so she slaughters Cersei's people in the hopes that they'll surrender or turn on her.   Or have a decent fight and Dany can still go scorch earth after that surrender. The shift of balance of power was so lopsided from one side to the other.   Lannisters  should have fought well.  And have the golden company live up to their reputation. Have it be a fight. 

I would have shown Dany's slide into (or reveal of) inhumanity by having had her burn Lyanna Mormont alive for not bending the knee.  A tougher pill to swallow, but certainly within the realm of what Dany had shown she was capable of. I can hear the justifications already  -- "Lyanna had a choice!" 'She betrayed her her queen!" But that still would have been one more layer peeled away, as some would recognize, "Ummm, yeah, but should Dany have really used her power like that? I'm uncomfortable." 

Bigger picture:  With GRRM apparently not making himself available to script the season, and without detailed dialogue to steal from in the books, D&D should have swallowed their pride and hired a damn good writer, or writers, to help them write the season. Instead, they went with their two promoted former coffee runners, Bryan Cogman and Dave Hill.  And I know a lot of people love Cogman and his knowledge of the ASOIAF universe. And that has its place. But the dialogue and story progression this season was horrible. HORRIBLE!!!!!  It's been horrible for the 3 out of the last 4 seasons (Season 6 was a nice recovery season).  They had four white dude bros who all liked each and hung out together, and Cogman and Hill were promoted because they were liked by D&D.  Maybe if they didn't have such an echo chamber, they would have made better and more meaningful choices.  

This show excelled in nearly every department -- the effects, the acting, the costuming.  The only two in which they failed were the writing and the continuity or maybe editing department.  I guess I'll cut some lack for the lighting team, given that episode 3 was supposed to be as dark as it was.  That was a stupid choice by D&D to make it what was happening on screen so unintelligible. 

[MrsR]

I've been working backwards. In other words, where did some things or people simply have to end up. 

Like Clegane bowl had to happen. Cersei had to die.  Euron had to die.  And above all that freaking cursed Iron Throne had to go. And squashing it would not be enough. Since it was forged in dragon fire it was going to have to be destroyed by dragon fire.  

Either Jon or Dany had to die. They couldn't both exist with their claims. Both of them alive meant a constant state of rebellion, or intrigue, somewhere at some time from someone. That secret wasn't gonna stay secret and with a foreign queen and a foreign occupying army something would have to give.  A Targaryan as ruler? Two Targaryans as rulers? That doesn't seem fitting.

Jaime had a pathetic future ahead of him. Hanging at Winterfell with Brienne under the roof of a resentful Sansa? Rebuilding the kingdom with the survivors, a Lannister?  A little home in the country? Nah, so Jaime had to go.   

Arya still had her list, she's not one to sit out a fight.

And Kings Landing was gonna get screwed no matter who won. Dothraki, Unsullied, Northern Army, Lannister Army, Iron Fleet, ballistas, at least one Dragon, and caches of wildfire and that is a recipe for disaster. Dany uses this as a justification for her violent actions.

So my wish list for the last episode: More fitting death for Cersei. She had never left the keep since season one so I would have liked her to stay as long as possible. Taken out by a cache of wildfire planted by Qyburn but used as a suicide as Dany bears down on her. Takes out Jaime as well.  Euron gets fished out of the drink by Yara's arriving ships and his throat cut.

Keep Tyrion's quitting and imprisonment and have him point out that Davos won't stand for the murder of children.

Dany is still a conquering fanatic.

A flock of ravens flying about surveying the ruins.

Jon still kills Dany.

A warg by Bran into Drogon to protect Jon and he takes out the Iron Throne.  That makes him a hero and a worthy candidate. Drogon still takes Dany away after Jon escapes out the throne room to be met by Davos and his men.

As for the council, I would have Davos take a good deal of Tyrion's screen time and give him a more eloquent speech advocating for Bran.

Tyrion would look Grey Worm in the eye and shout, "I demand a TRIAL BY COMBAT."

Okay, that was a joke!!!! But that would have killed me if he had a 3rd trial by combat!

The Starks moving on and Jon's fate I would have left the same.

Edited May 24, 2019 by MrsR

[Francie]

On second thought, maybe D&D should have played to their strengths:

More cock and cockless jokes.  Have Bronn make a crack that if only Grey Worm had a cock, Bronn could take him to a brothel to get over his heartache. 

More short jokes. Have Jon, right when he stabs Danaerys say, “At least you’re short, like me, so I could reach your heart.”  And then have Davos, watching, say “...like I am,” and do a hard cut to...

Have all words of dialogue that are not short or cock jokes or Davos grammar corrections be uttered by Tyrion. Have him do a running monologue in the street, lecturing the burning man. Then, when he finds Jaime and Cersei, he can exclaim, “But father still loved you MORE, so I remain the most piteous! Poor me!” 

Have 100 people throw spears at an angry Drogon, all of them bouncing off him, and then have Drogon accidentally step on a broken spear and die. Because, you know — Achilles heel and all. See — look how literary we are! Where’s our emmy? 

Edited May 24, 2019 by Francie

[Umbelina]

Put back the deleted scenes I just posted in the media thread.

Holy shit.  Those would have made this ending SO much better!

[Umbelina]

One of the better videos slamming the show, and this focuses on the writing, so what the hell, I kind of think it belongs in the "how you would have done season 8" thread, though he points out, the issues began the moment D and D ran out of source material.