S08.E05: The Bells

[AshleyN]

1 minute ago, Lamima said:

This plan would also get rid of any followers Jon might have (those who surrendered and Jon's nothern army all got wiped out pretty much). Now there is Dany and her Dothraki and Unsullied. It will be hard for any uprising from Jon's side. 

Enter Arya...

We were all focused on her killing the wrong queen.

[Umbelina]

22 minutes ago, mac123x said:

Really?  I expected something like "We knew in season 5 that we wanted Dany to go full mad queen, but we weren't able to figure out how to get her there organically so we just had it come out of the blue.  In case you hadn't noticed yet, we're pretty much hacks."  

But seriously folx, I'm a firm believer in Death of the Author -- They can explain it all they want in commentaries and background material, but if they didn't include it in the canonical show, it doesn't count.  

I think they did show it, just not enough I agree.  At least it was more absolute fury than "insane like daddy."

15 minutes ago, RedheadZombie said:

Show don't tell.

Subvert this D&D.

Well, they have shown some in the last episode, but yeah, I agree, it doesn't feel earned that Jon's rejection is her last straw.  Losing two children is a lot though, and a best friend, and her loyal Jorah.

[rmontro]

2 minutes ago, jeansheridan said:

I think she planned it with Greyworm. I think it was a brutal plan but she did it. She never agreed to the bell idea. 

She basically told Tyrion that she didn't value the KL citizens because they had enabled Cersei.  I don't see this as cold calculation but a deep, dark cynicism.  I personally think it's an insanity of sorts, but I'm not sure which is a worse character assassination of Dany:  if they've had her gone mad, or if they've just turned her evil tyrant villain.

I will point out, however, that Cersei had not surrendered by that point.  In fact, it isn't clear WHO rang the bells.  There were just shouts from the soldiers to ring the bells.  Dany might have been justified in not believing Cersei had surrendered, because she hadn't.  The nuclear devastation is, of course, another matter.

[GrailKing]

1 hour ago, Umbelina said:

Was that Arya on the white horse at the end?  Are we supposed to thing that the Hounds words are going to make her change, dump justice and revenge and go be happy somewhere?

If she's smart yeah, will she? that's the question.

Edited May 13, 2019 by GrailKing

[jeansheridan]

Also I don't feel like it is character assassination to have Dany be so brutal. It's part of her personality. She can be for women and children and fairness and still do this mass slaughter. She is neither a villain or a hero. She wants a massive change and breaking the wheel is bloody. For us to expect her to do that without causing death and destruction was probably naive. 

Besides we'll probably find out next week she only took out a quarter of the city. You know, just 200,000. 

[rmontro]

Just now, jeansheridan said:

She is neither a villain or a hero. She wants a massive change and breaking the wheel is bloody. For us to expect her to do that without causing death and destruction was probably naive. 

But she's not breaking the wheel, she's just continuing it, more efficiently than ever.

[LittleIggy]

I for one teared up at Varys’ death. I liked the character and the actor. Maybe I’ll name a future cat Varys. He would be fixed after all. 😏

[Advance35]

I liked it.  I felt for her, but running away while afraid was what Cersei deserved.  She fought/betrayed/murdered so many people, callously destroyed so many lives to maintain her place in Kings Landing and The Red Keep, so to see it all go up in flames and fearful as everything literally crumbled around her was fitting.   Ned, Cat, Robb, Talisa, Robert, Lancel, Kevan, Ellaria, Olenna, Margaery, Mace, Loras send their best Cersei.

However, Daenerys is a monster and hopefully, she meets a monsters end.  What she did was unforgivable.  She's as big a monster as any she's ever destroyed.

I do think Dany is on her way up to Winterfell after she's done in Kings Landing.   I don't doubt she is planning to make Sansa very sorry for plotting against her.

[Umbelina]

1 minute ago, rmontro said:

But she's not breaking the wheel, she's just continuing it, more efficiently than ever.

Yeah, but I think that is one of GRRM's points too.

Power has always been taken by one person, "for the greater good" or whatever doesn't MATTER.  War is pointless, and the many suffer.  All so some asshole can "win."

Dany was no more of an asshole that Tywin burning people out of their homes and meager belongings either.  He killed whole villages just for the fuck of it.  Dany is just the last of a long line of power hungry assholes that wanted that IT for themselves.

[GrailKing]

1 hour ago, HeySandyStrange said:

So what was the point of having Jaime finally get together with Brienne, if he ran straight back into Cersei's arms after their failed attempt to run off in the sunset together? Why let Brienne cry over this subpar version of Jaime? What a waste of a complex character like Jaime.

Maybe it's the simplest of answers, She was a disease and he was infected and the antibiotic ( Brienne ) wasn't strong enough to wipe it out of him.

[screamin]

50 minutes ago, jeansheridan said:

I wish they had given him some more dialogue there. Explain to her that he just couldn't overcome his culture. And that they are family and he loves her as such. I mean he's her family! That could have been something. Something for her to hold on to. Tyrion and Jaime have proven family love matters a lot. And so have the Starks. They could be the Targaryens, together. Sexual feelings can fade with time and space. 

Yeah, that's the failing I most put at Jon's feet. He sees she's trembling on the edge of something bad, she's going to attack the city at dawn in that condition, he supposedly loves  her - fucking TALK to her. Be supportive in her grief and her insecurity, stay with her, draw her out, find your spine and eventually make a stand on what you will and won't do for her on the battlefield. 

Instead, Jon slinks off and decides that being her silently obedient servile lickspittle will be all the demonstration of love and integrity he'll give her.

Edited May 13, 2019 by screamin

[jeansheridan]

8 minutes ago, spaceghostess said:

I'm supposed to feel bad for them why, exactly

You are not. It's just the end of 8 years with these characters. I like this end for Jaime. I don't need to see Cercei tortured. We had The Walk already. Are we gonna be like Cercei and want to see Oleanna flayed alive?

[Umbelina]

5 minutes ago, GrailKing said:

Maybe it's the simplest of answers, She was a disease and he was infected and the antibiotic ( Brienne ) wasn't strong enough to wipe it out of him.

More like the writers wanted to give Lena another emmy scene.

3 minutes ago, jeansheridan said:

You are not. It's just the end of 8 years with these characters. I like this end for Jaime. I don't need to see Cercei tortured. We had The Walk already. Are we gonna be like Cercei and want to see Oleanna flayed alive?

YUP!  I wanted her tortured, flayed alive, preferably killed by Sansa or Arya for all the hell she put them through, or someone else with a life ruined by Cersei. 

Fuck this Romeo and Juliet crap.

[GrailKing]

45 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

Is this seriously what GRRM wanted out of his story? Reading the books, I just cant see this as the ending that its all leading to, unless a LOT of weird shit goes down in the last couple books. I have to think that the books will end differently, as they have so many different characters and their characterizations are often different, I can only hope he looks at this and says "ummm, no" and does something else. I just cant imagine this being how things end for book Jaimie and book Dany. I just cant see it. I dont even see it for the show, and even less so in the books. 

War sucks, many people suffer, he's not against war for proper reasons, but the whole part of Arya's travels through the Riverlands, are etched in Arya's face tonight and Maisie acted the hell out of that. 

[spaceghostess]

7 minutes ago, jeansheridan said:

You are not. It's just the end of 8 years with these characters. I like this end for Jaime. I don't need to see Cercei tortured. We had The Walk already. Are we gonna be like Cercei and want to see Oleanna flayed alive?

I, personally, don't want to see anyone flayed alive. I simply  object to the fact that the two of them got the sympathy edit, not to mention the romantic/tragic music and the kind of long, drawn out scenes that numerous other main characters deserved far more. D&D went out of their way to humanize Cersei (using Jaime to do it) after all her vile deeds, while Dany, who's been drawn as more human than Cersei for 7+ seasons is reduced to a monstrous killing machine.

In a word: Gross.

In another word: Bullshit.

Edited May 13, 2019 by spaceghostess

[rmontro]

10 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

Dany was no more of an asshole that Tywin burning people out of their homes and meager belongings either.  He killed whole villages just for the fuck of it.  Dany is just the last of a long line of power hungry assholes that wanted that IT for themselves.

Yeah, I don't believe that the Daenerys I watched for that last seven and a half seasons was an asshole.  She had ambition, true, but wanted to use it to be in a position of power to do good.  These actions are not consistent with her prior actions as ruler in Mereen.  She made mistakes there, but she wasn't the sociopathic tyrant we saw in this episode. 

I would say more, but we're in the wrong subforum  🙂

Edited May 13, 2019 by rmontro

[GrailKing]

4 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

More like the writers wanted to give Lena another emmy scene.

YUP!  I wanted her tortured, flayed alive, preferably killed by Sansa or Arya for all the hell she put them through, or someone else with a life ruined by Cersei. 

Fuck this Romeo and Juliet crap.

Not worthy for me, too sentimental, I wanted humiliation, where she have to act more.

Edited May 13, 2019 by GrailKing
spelling

[Umbelina]

1 minute ago, rmontro said:

Yeah, I don't believe that the Daenerys I watched for that last seven and a half seasons was an asshole.  She had ambition, true, but wanted to use it to be in a position of power to do good.  These actions are not consistent with her prior actions as ruler in Mereen.  She made mistakes there, but she wasn't the sociopathic tyrant we saw in this episode. 

I would say more, but we're in the wrong subforum  🙂

"blood and fire" were a pretty good clue.

[rmontro]

2 minutes ago, spaceghostess said:

 D&D went out of their way to humanize Cersei (using Jaime to do it) after all her vile deeds, while Dany, who's been drawn as more human than Cersei for 7+ seasons is reduced to a monstrous killing machine.

In a word: Gross.

In another word: Bullshit.

Exactly.

[Umbelina]

1 minute ago, GrailKing said:

Not worthy for me, too sentimental, I wanted humiliation, where she have to act more.

I would have prefer her screaming and burning in wildfire, as she did to thousands in the church.

[GrailKing]

1 minute ago, Umbelina said:

I would have prefer her screaming and burning in wildfire, as she did to thousands in the church.

I drink to that too ! If I didn't have too much already today.

[rmontro]

I want to point out, before I forget, that when the bells rang, they showed Daenerys sitting on her dragon.  She sort of whimpered a few times, interlaced with a few snarls, and then continued on with the attack.  I'm not sure what that means, but I'm throwing it out there.

2 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

"blood and fire" were a pretty good clue.

Do you think Jon would have had sex with Dany on the boat at the end of season seven if it had been so obvious that this is what she was all along?  I'm not buying it.

[AshleyN]

24 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

Yeah, but I think that is one of GRRM's points too.

Power has always been taken by one person, "for the greater good" or whatever doesn't MATTER.  War is pointless, and the many suffer.  All so some asshole can "win."

Dany was no more of an asshole that Tywin burning people out of their homes and meager belongings either.  He killed whole villages just for the fuck of it.  Dany is just the last of a long line of power hungry assholes that wanted that IT for themselves.

I agree with this in general, but the execution is the really issue. If the idea had been that she'd gotten pissed enough, and had bought into her own mythology as a saviour figure enough, to throw off the shackles and stop giving a shit about the collateral damage I could buy it, in that she had convinced herself that the ends justify the means. It's not like she's ever shied away from using brutal means to achieve her goals. But to jump all the way to outright mass slaughter of innocents for no gain at all was just too big of a leap to make with such little setup.

Edited May 13, 2019 by AshleyN

[GraceK]

Can I just say....I loved the moment when Gregor Zombie killed Qyburn on the stairs, and Cersei took one look at him, and the hound, and skedaddled! 😂😂😂 The only humorous moment in the episode. She was literally like “ nope, not my problem, not getting involved, gotta save my ass” and ran down those steps 😂😂

[GrailKing]

46 minutes ago, stagmania said:

If they’d had him say a few comforting words to her, or attempt to take care of her even as just a friend in this ep, they could have gotten it across. But he just seems wary of her, not worried about her.

And maybe that's the point!

He was told by both his sisters, basically open your eyes and remove the rose color glasses.

And it took a few thousand dead before he realized his other holy shit moment, that evil can be wrapped in ugly newspaper, or a bright and shiny package 

[bijoux]

1 hour ago, Scarlett45 said:

Like wut? The best part was Sandor telling Arya to leave. I’m just shaking my head. 

It truly was. The moment I got well and truly emotionally invested was when he shook her out of her MO for the past six years. It’s probably the most amazing gift anyone gave to someone else in this entire show. He literally turned her away from death and towards life. And Arya took that gift! That was just amazing and gave me so much hope for her actually being able to move on from all the horrors she was part of.

I also loved the Hound and the Mountain’s confrontation. The way it was intercut with Arya’s scenes was terrific and gave me heartburn. Then we also have Sandor being freaking normal about his evil sibling and just going yep, that’s who you are, that’s who you’ve always been when he saw what Qyburn made of the Mountain. Such a refreshing viewpoint after the idiot Lannister brothers. (Sidenote: Jaime really has some stiff competition for being the dumbest Lannister. Man alive, Tyrion really decided to throw his hat in the ring there.) And who didn’t laugh at, Just fucking die already. Indeed. May you rest in peace, Sandor. I hoped you wouldn’t die, but what a glorious way to go.

1 hour ago, jeansheridan said:

I am still processing. I think Dany and Greyworm always had a different plan from Jon and Tyrion. Greyworm was out for blood.

I am a little surprised Jaime had such a hero's death. That actually was a pretty damn happy ending for him, dying with the woman he loved. I admit I was wrong. He went because he loved her.

But I loved Tyrion hugging him one last time. That killed me. 

I liked Jaime's ugly fight too. I believe those two are great friends in real life so it was probably fun.

Does this mean Greyworm is now mad as well?

Tyrion and Jaime’s goodbye was one of the highlights but I’m deducting serious points over how dumb they were being. Seriously, I expected Jaime to stab Cercei when he told her to look into his eyes. It could have read as more ambiguous. On the one hand, she needs to die. On the other, he could have been doing her a mercy ending it quickly.

The fight with Euron was terifically choreographed even if I rolled my eyes when he came back again. Couldn’t he at least have gotten his vocal chords messed up to just shut up? Jesus.

39 minutes ago, TobinAlbers said:

Arya as the living witness was a nice touch as otherwise her journey to KL was for nothing. Also someone pointed out to me that she resembles Ned now in dress and hair style. In some of the shadowy shots she looked exactly like Ned. 

I was actually struck by how much she looked like Jon. But Ned makes sense too. For both of them.

[spaceghostess]

21 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

I would have prefer her screaming and burning in wildfire, as she did to thousands in the church.

I wanted her to die alone or (second choice) to be killed by Jaime.  I get the symmetry they were going for--they came into the world together and left it together--but she SO did not deserve to have someone she loved comforting her in her last moments, damn.

[jade.black]

Aside from the piss poor lack of setup, I liked this. If there had been any proper storytelling or decent execution to Dany's mental break, I think this would have actually been fantastic. As the show as gone about it though, it looks like we watched an overall good-hearted person despite some arrogance and ruthlessness snap because she showed up in a new country for a few weeks and people didn't love her yet (and her nephew doesn't want to sleep with her now that he's found out they're related). It was a bullshit setup and that's why the "payoff" just seems out of left field. I do have faith GRRM would do this ending justice in the books.

I don't mind them skipping some of the prophecies... they cut a decent bit from the books as it was, but they should have tied up at least the stories they touched on- the three eyed raven being the main one (we still have an episode to go but I have no hope they'll fit that plotline in). 

And for show Jaime, I feel like this was a fitting end. He was a morally grey character and may have outgrown Cersei in a lot of ways, but it was well established that he ALWAYS loved her. The books only emphasize that, and his last line that nothing matters except for them is the encapsulation of their relationship. I see that this is an unpopular opinion, but I loved their romantic ending. We don't always get the perfect revenge or payoff. Bad people are still human. And Cersei's death wasn't the point of the series.

(ETA: I would also think those who wanted to see Cersei suffer would have found that vengeance in seeing how utterly terrified she was for the first time in the whole series. Any other death, especially by murder, would likely have not had that payoff. You see her fully realize fear and the life she could have had in her final moments.)

I had basically written off the show last week, but ignoring the absolutely unearned heel turn for Dany (and the death of Varys who I've always loved), I'm back on board for the finale. I still think the writing sucks and D&D have made a travesty of the whole thing, but the acting has been top notch this season, and the cinematography this episode was stunning. The cuts between the Hound and Arya and the camera panning down those narrow alleyways as Arya ran were unreal. Tyrion/Jaime had a heartbreaking goodbye. I am actually interested to see what the hell they're doing to wrap this up next week.

Edited May 13, 2019 by jade.black

[AshleyN]

7 minutes ago, bijoux said:

I was actually struck by how much she looked like Jon. But Ned makes sense too. For both of them.

They're both doing their own version of Ned Stark cosplay, which is a detail I've appreciated for awhile now.

[Chaser]

6 minutes ago, AshleyN said:

I agree with this in general, but the execution is the really issue. If the idea had been that she'd gotten pissed enough, and had bought into her own mythology as a saviour figure enough, to throw off the shackles and stop giving a shit about the collateral damage I could buy it, in that she had convinced herself that the ends justify the means. It's not like she's ever shied away from using brutal means to achieve her goals. But to jump all the way to outright mass slaughter of innocents for no gain at all was just too big of a leap to make with such little setup.

Fear. That was her gain. Her conversation with Jon set her down the path. She knew she would never have their love or loyalty so she would take and hold the Throne by fear. 

The more I think about it, the more it makes sense to me. She probably played this moment a thousand times in her head, but it was never like this. She truly believed she would be met with cheers from the people. That the Kingdoms had been waiting for her, their ‘rightful’ ruler. Nothing turned out like that.  She wasn’t welcome. She wasn’t the rightful ruler. She lost Jorah. She lost Missandei. She saw people running from her, not too her. She unraveled and then she snapped. She said people could die in their old world or live in her new one. She choose to make good on that. 

[maystone]

You know, no one knows that Jaime and Cersei are dead. Their bodies are never going to be found under all of that rubble.  All that's evident is that Tyrion set Jaime free and he and Cersei can't be found. Well "evident" assuming the tent where he was being held is still in one piece complete with empty shackles. I wonder what Dany's reaction to that is going to be? JK, I think we all know.

Dany was motivated by one major thing in both book and show: The Iron Throne is her destiny. How she was going to deal with all of that power was up for debate during the previous seasons, but nothing and no one was going to keep her from her destiny. And a belief in one's destiny becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. Anything goes when you destiny is calling, and all of your actions are rationalized away because . . . destiny. I liked Dany, but I never had a lot of faith in her.

How does Arya not kill Dany? BTW, Maisie owned every single scene she was in. So many wonderful actors in this show.

Were we supposed to recognize that tall guy who was trying to rape one of the KL women? The guy that Jon killed? He was wearing a lot of armor,and he was a big guy; I assume he was one of the army of the North.

[SeanC]

After all the plot armour, all the implausible wins handed to Cersei to keep her in the game, she just utterly folded here, like a switch was flipped.

Really, it's almost jarring how little Cersei/Lena actually had to do this season. 

[bijoux]

5 minutes ago, maystone said:

Were we supposed to recognize that tall guy who was trying to rape one of the KL women? The guy that Jon killed? He was wearing a lot of armor,and he was a big guy; I assume he was one of the army of the North.

I don’t think we were supposed to recognize him apart from him and Jon fighting on the same side. It demonstrates that there are no clear good guys in this fight. This isn’t Winterfell, where it was life vs. death. These are all people and there are good ones and shitty ones on all sides.

[GrailKing]

BRB going to reddit to see asses burning.

[Callaphera]

Welp. That happened.

At least discount bin emo Joshua Jackson the day after a week long bender finally bit it? I’d have rather seen him barbecued but you do you, show. Keep on being a flaming train wreck going hell for leather for that dumpster.

[Jennifersdc]

First time poster (I unfortunately post on train wreck “reality” TV).

Book reader (twice). Great episode. Made up for the last two episodes. See below.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/life/tv/2019/04/29/game-of-thrones-character-deaths-battle-of-winterfell-the-long-night/3614312002/

How the fuck did Sam Tarly survive that? The Long Night - Night King, White Walkers, Army of the Dead vanquished in one night? Disappointing- since IMO they were the real danger.

Dany going all Mad King? I’m thinking now that either Jon Snow or Arya will kill her. She’s definitely now on Arya’s kill list. 

Clegane Bowl ended like I thought it would.

[Umbelina]

20 minutes ago, Chaser said:

Fear. That was her gain. Her conversation with Jon set her down the path. She knew she would never have their love or loyalty so she would take and hold the Throne by fear. 

The more I think about it, the more it makes sense to me. She probably played this moment a thousand times in her head, but it was never like this. She truly believed she would be met with cheers from the people. That the Kingdoms had been waiting for her, their ‘rightful’ ruler. Nothing turned out like that.  She wasn’t welcome. She wasn’t the rightful ruler. She lost Jorah. She lost Missandei. She saw people running from her, not too her. She unraveled and then she snapped. She said people could die in their old world or live in her new one. She choose to make good on that. 

Nailed it, and she also lost two dragons.

She's furious, and sad, and not about to be defeated.  She's no more "crazy" than the rest of those assholes who sought the throne, as far as I can tell.  We'll see what the last episode brings.

Title?

THE BELLS

(I think they didn't release it because of spoiler leaks about bells)

[polyhymnia]

49 minutes ago, spaceghostess said:

I, personally, don't want to see anyone flayed alive. I simply  object to the fact that the two of them got the sympathy edit, not to mention the romantic/tragic music and the kind of long, drawn out scenes that numerous other main characters deserved far more. D&D went out of their way to humanize Cersei (using Jaime to do it) after all her vile deeds, while Dany, who's been drawn as more human than Cersei for 7+ seasons is reduced to a monstrous killing machine.

In a word: Gross.

In another word: Bullshit.

Yeah, if she had died alone and afraid in the bottom of the Red Keep and he had died on the beach or under some flaming rubble, that would have been okay. I really thought he was going to kill her and was very disappointed in that storyline.

[Umbelina]

1 minute ago, Jennifersdc said:

Dany going all Mad King? I’m thinking now that either Jon Snow or Arya will kill her. She’s definitely now on Arya’s kill list. 

She may be over all of that.  Wasn't that what her conversation win Sangor was all about?  She looked like the little girl she is in that scene, not the cold blooded justice seeking killer anymore.

[anamika]

So D&D message with this show seems to be that

- Dany could not escape her father's legacy and has to die like him

- Missandei died in chains

- The Hound died by what he feared the most - fire

- Jaime did not redeem himself and died being hateful with Cersei

- Cersei was right about the Iron Throne mattering more than the zombie apocalypse at the end and died with her true love

 - Jon is useless and was right about absolutely nothing

- If Dany had not taken Tyrion on as her adviser in season 5, she would have won the Game of Thrones. But she listened to the 'goods guys' and got royally fucked.

- LF!Sansa who betrayed her brother for power will rule the North.

[GrailKing]

2 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

She may be over all of that.  Wasn't that what her conversation win Sangor was all about?  She looked like the little girl she is in that scene, not the cold blooded justice seeking killer anymore.

Maybe, I keep thinking though about some things.

Sansa's wolf's death and "Nothing's more hurtful then failing to protect the ones you love."

Jon seeing her may force him to choose and act.

[ShellsandCheese]

4 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

She may be over all of that.  Wasn't that what her conversation win Sangor was all about?  She looked like the little girl she is in that scene, not the cold blooded justice seeking killer anymore.

Arya was after people who killed her family. I really don’t think Arya gives two shits about Dany. 

[bijoux]

3 minutes ago, anamika said:

The Hound died by what he feared the most - fire

I really did not mind that. I definitely would have preferred him to live, but he chose that consciously, knowing it was the only way to take out his brother. It was poetic in a way. He bravely jumped into what he feared most to defeat his biggest enemy and succeeded. Go, Sandor. 

[jeansheridan]

26 minutes ago, jade.black said:

see that this is an unpopular opinion, but I loved their romantic ending. We don't always get the perfect revenge or payoff. Bad people are still human. And Cersei's death wasn't the point of the series.

I agree. It was a fitting death for them. And beautiful in a way. Since I like Jaime, it made me happy for the character. I do think he grew too. He went from being unhappy and without purpose at the beginning of the show to this man who will drag himself to be with the woman he loves. It's just powerful and sad. But I am glad he reached her. 

No she did not deserve him. 

[lucindabelle]

1 hour ago, mac123x said:

But seriously folx, I'm a firm believer in Death of the Author -- They can explain it all they want in commentaries and background material, but if they didn't include it in the canonical show, it doesn't count.  

1 hour ago, RedheadZombie said:

Show don't tell.

Subvert this D&D.

Yep. I’ve had MANY people tell me tonight it’s dresden! They said so! And talk about “inside the episode.”

no.

i can only judge what I SEE, not what they thought was in there.

im skipping next week I’m so Disgusted 

1 hour ago, TobinAlbers said:

So if Jon had bedded Dany and given body and soul to her she wouldn't have gone whole ham on KL? Or would she have expected him to keep following her lead. I can't put Dany's rampage on Jon or Sansa or Tyrion. Dany's actions are her own and for her to choose blood just because Jon wouldn't pony up his peen is on her and her alone. 

Ugh HATED that. Dany has so much to be upset about yet they had to give us this scene so we know that a fragile woman should not be rejected! Meanwhile Cersei, CERSEI WHO BLEW UP THE SEPT, is given a pale wan victim edit with sad music, talking about her baby and redeemed by love.

1 hour ago, spaceghostess said:

I, personally, don't want to see anyone flayed alive. I simply  object to the fact that the two of them got the sympathy edit, not to mention the romantic/tragic music and the kind of long, drawn out scenes that numerous other main characters deserved far more. D&D went out of their way to humanize Cersei (using Jaime to do it) after all her vile deeds, while Dany, who's been drawn as more human than Cersei for 7+ seasons is reduced to a monstrous killing machine.

In a word: Gross.

In another word: Bullshit.

💯 

manipulative bullshit. 

[jeansheridan]

14 minutes ago, GrailKing said:

Maybe, I keep thinking though about some things.

Sansa's wolf's death and "Nothing's more hurtful then failing to protect the ones you love."

Why Lady's desth? Just curious. I am not making the connection.

[DigitalCount]

So I pretty much expected basically this, though it didn't go exactly as I predicted and I was mildly worried that Jaime was going to choke Cersei. Glad to see that answer (whatever it may be) will have to wait for the book series.

The only character I didn't want to die that I thought might die was Arya, and I spent the last half hour not breathing. There were maybe 15 times in that sequence that I thought she had died, but the only thing stronger than plot armor is Parris armor, lol.

I do think I was expecting Dany to be the final boss a bit more readily than most others here, though, so I don't think I was as disappointed by that turn of events as others seem to have been.

What was the final count for this ep? I've got Jaime/Cersei/Sandor/Gregor/Qyburn/Euron/Iron Fleet/Golden Company/a good portion of King's Landing, did I miss anyone?

More later, I guess.

[GrailKing]

2 minutes ago, jeansheridan said:

Why Lady's desth? Just curious. I am not making the connection.

Lady died in place of Nymeria because of a vindictive ruler or female.

Arya is a protector, she tends to be late at events sometimes.

[Maximum Taco]

Maybe I'm in the minority, but I bought Dany's heel-turn.

She lost her dragon, then her first protector (Ser Jorah), then her other dragon and then her best friend (Missandei), and all the way through she's been reminded about how the people of this land don't like her, when all her brother would talk about when they were little was how they were praying for her return and how they would welcome her back with cheers and celebration.

Then she realizes the person she loves betrayed her, and her most trusted adviser betrayed her, and the person who said they'd only betray her if they truly believed she was a bad person and betraying her would be for the good of the people, that guy also betrayed her. Finally she goes to the person she loves and pleads with him to love her the way she loves him, but he can't or he won't and she's alone.

It could've been done a lot better in the show, but I can definitely see why she would flip to "Well if they think I'm a monster, I'll be a monster"

[rmontro]

How about Tyrion snitching on Varys?  What you think about that?

Was he trying to protect his own skin?  Was he trying to put a stop to Varys' plots?

Was he trying to be the good Hand of the Queen?

Just a dirty snitch?  What?