Supernatural Ending

[catrox14]

27 minutes ago, Castiels Cat said:

That gun is literally Chekhov's gun. It's a nerd writer's meta joke insert. (Ha ha).

The gun not only shows up only at the point is literally is needed; God literally makes it when it is literally needed. It is the most Chekhovian Chekhov's gun that ever was.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chekhov's_gun

Thanks, I know what a Chekhov's gun is already.  The point the person was making is that having Sam and Dean shoot each other and die at the same time, would fucking suck.  Which I agree with....

[Castiels Cat]

8 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

Thanks, I know what a Chekhov's gun is already.  The point the person was making is that having Sam and Dean shoot each other and die at the same time, would fucking suck.  Which I agree with....

The reason the gun was introduced was obviously meta. 

The speculation is based on nothing. Their only goal now is to get the world up and running again. That is how they can best save people in the long run. In the short term they have to stay Alive to do it and deal with whatever comes their way. They can do neither if they are dead.

Since their enemy is God and using the gun on him ends everything they won't be using it on him. 

Did I say it was not very well thought out spec? The person that did the spec obviously does not understand the purpose of the gun in the script.

Edited April 29, 2019 by Castiels Cat

[catrox14]

6 minutes ago, Castiels Cat said:

Did I say it was not very well thought out spec? The person that did the spec obviously does not understand the purpose of the gun in the script.

Well, I can't speak to that, but is it really that farfetched as speculation to think the show would go back to that? I mean it's not as if the show never retreads old objects or subjects or regurgitates plots.  So yeah, even if it's not well thought out spec that doesn't mean this show wouldn't do exactly something that stupid.   They've proven they do stupid shit all the time.

[SueB]

16 hours ago, PinkChicken said:

same :/// but I'm also hoping that things that felt weird about it is because they are bending over backwards to get into the final season and ramming it in regardless of whether it fit with what they had originally lined up 🙏

I couldn't remember this properly either, though I did think I remembered something vaguely to that effect so I went looking for it - not sure if ts what you meant but the closest I found was 3/4 into the gold chicago panel.

The question was something like "what ep(s) were you excited about to film?" and was when Jared segued into talking about their responsibility to "keep Sam and Dean, Sam and Dean" and then they were mostly talking about 300, and how they got more involved because of the big milestone and bringing back JDM and making sure that as done well. They both talk about taking more interest in that, and then Jensen pauses and says "and also the season finale, of this year, I was excited about" but I think he was bringing it back to the original question, and just meant he was excited for it and "mostly what it sets up", not talking about getting more involved in it (it certainly doesn't compare to how they spoke about the s11 finale).  -and in the case of the 300th imo the two weird halves of it point to big re-writes for jdm so they might have had more opportunity to make suggestions while that happened and because it was happening, without creating extra work or potentially  'overstepping' on someones already completed work.

Point being: I don't think the finale is any indication of how them getting in on the storyboards might affect the overall plot direction. 

Thanks for that.  Made it easy to rewatch -- and I agree, he went back to the original question.  BUT, they did say he did say he was excited about what it sets up for next year, which, IMO, is an endorsement of setting up Chuck as the villain.   Which is what some are not happy about.  

[Castiels Cat]

2 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

Well, I can't speak to that, but is it really that farfetched as speculation to think the show would go back to that? I mean it's not as if the show never retreads old objects or subjects or regurgitates plots.  So yeah, even if it's not well thought out spec that doesn't mean this show wouldn't do exactly something that stupid.   They've proven they do stupid shit all the time.

I can see them dying for a reason. I don't think they would just kill themselves for no reason with a gun that has been laying around for a year that was introduced as a meta joke on writing.

[catrox14]

44 minutes ago, Castiels Cat said:

I can see them dying for a reason. I don't think they would just kill themselves for no reason with a gun that has been laying around for a year that was introduced as a meta joke on writing.

I think I noted it would be done for reasons...probably another apocalypse.  That doesn't make it a good idea even to save the universe. 

I would prefer if they kill each other, it's because it's the Michael!Dean vs Samifer fight. But at this point, I don't trust Dabb to do it right as far as I can throw him. 

[juppschmitz]

5 hours ago, Castiels Cat said:

That gun is literally Chekhov's gun. It's a nerd writer's meta joke insert. (Ha ha).

The gun not only shows up only at the point is literally is needed; God literally makes it when it is literally needed. It is the most Chekhovian Chekhov's gun that ever was.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chekhov's_gun

OT, but what you're saying does not fit the description of Chekhov's Gun at all. Nerd writer joke insert maybe, but it was introduced, focused on and had relevance later "in the play". So it wasn't "Chekhov's" gun, it was just a gun.

[ILoveReading]

Part of me wonders if what Jensen is excited about is the set up to put the brothers back on the road, Saving people, hunting things and classic SPN eps.

[Castiels Cat]

On 4/29/2019 at 1:49 AM, juppschmitz said:

OT, but what you're saying does not fit the description of Chekhov's Gun at all. Nerd writer joke insert maybe, but it was introduced, focused on and had relevance later "in the play". So it wasn't "Chekhov's" gun, it was just a gun.

It is literally a manifestation of the principle in its purest form. A gun created only when it needs to be used. The gun did not exist prior because Jack did not need to be killed prior to that moment. ????

[Castiels Cat]

On 4/28/2019 at 9:41 PM, catrox14 said:

I think I noted it would be done for reasons...probably another apocalypse.  That doesn't make it a good idea even to save the universe. 

I would prefer if they kill each other, it's because it's the Michael!Dean vs Samifer fight. But at this point, I don't trust Dabb to do it right as far as I can throw him. 

They have not set up an Apocalypse.

Having Chuck outed as the bad guy makes both Lucifer and Michael look sympathetic and simply playing their written roles. Michael already has wised up, at least the one that has been allowed out to socialize these days. Lucifer already seemed to have Chuck's number too. Neither is going to go for another Apocalypse for funsies.  

And why would Sam say yes. Sadly Dean doesn't appear to have a choice anymore.

They have set up God as the big bad and they can't kill him. They can lock him away.

It most likely will take a team effort to do so. Team world not killing.

Edited May 1, 2019 by Castiels Cat

[Castiels Cat]

On 4/28/2019 at 9:41 PM, PinkChicken said:

haha true. imo hes always been a bit shady anyway (though not outright/hands-on malicious like he was in this ep). But as a Roman-catholic-raised, atheist, I really don't care lol. But I'm not about to step all over the people who seem offended at it. 
     I think (and this is probably the kindest interpretation I've seen) he might have initially planned on stepping in and stopping Dean at the last second as the title suggests, and mostly got pissy because Dean didn't let him play out his little power/saviour fantasy.

I don't think he will actually be "the big bad" of season 15, not in a real focal sense anyway. He will probably disappear for most (if not all) of the time. I see him as more of a catalyst and they don't really need to confront him to fix whatever hes done (I'd actually prefer it if they can do it themselves without needing someone else to snap their fingers). Especially if most of what hes done is just to actually say screw it and disappear into a different reality.

Also do NOT want that as an ending. Since Sam actually did fire it I'm hoping its mostly the last we have seen of it -apart from I guess the compulsory nod to its existence as an option before they disregard it because of the cost.

It looks to me like Chuck started the end of the world. Hell opened up and the souls of the damned were released. That's Revelations/End of Days Apocalyptic stuff. Plus it went dark...

So I  think Chuck is definitely pretty mad and started an end of the world sequence. Technically Michael already defeated Lucifer so that part has been completed...

But given Billie and the Empty waiting for Jack to wake up... I think the major players have to team up to stop their Universe from the shutdown process God started.

And God may get put on lockdown. Roadtrip to Reno?

[BlueSapphire]

I don’t know if this is the best place for this, but what are the predictions for how much Jensen, Jared, and Misha will continue to be involved with social media once the show ends?

[S Cook Productions]

1 hour ago, BlueSapphire said:

I don’t know if this is the best place for this, but what are the predictions for how much Jensen, Jared, and Misha will continue to be involved with social media once the show ends?

I think Misha will continue on social media a lot, much as he does now. He uses this to boost his philanthropic endeavors, and I think will continue to do so- at least while the cons continue to happen. I think Jared will cut back but will still keep a presence, much as he does now, because I think engaging with the fans helps his mental health issues. I think Jensen will be the least social media posting out of the 3, much as he is now, because he just seems more private and ready to move on to the next stage. Although, I think we will continue to see a lot out of the brewery- maybe even more so. Those are my predictions...

[juppschmitz]

5 hours ago, Castiels Cat said:

It is literally a manifestation of the principle in its purest form. A gun created only when it needs to be used. The gun did not exist prior because Jack did not need to be killed prior to that moment. ????

That's not the definition of Chekhov's Gun.  

(But I realize this isn't a discussion blog for literary terms, so I won't keep arguing this point.)

[ukgirl71]

I'm equally curious as to whether Genevieve (especially with her blog and its business connections) and Danneel will continue to post as much - I hope so, 'cos it's nice having a little peek into their worlds.

[catrox14]

So I was musing in the EP thread about Chuck is really the villain and what that would mean. I placing my official endgame soec that it will take OG!Michael!Dean and Samifer to defeat Chuck. That will be the only way God is the big bad will work for me. If Dabb et Al do that, might forgive many of his writing sins. Lol

[PAForrest]

22 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

So I was musing in the EP thread about Chuck is really the villain and what that would mean. I placing my official endgame soec that it will take OG!Michael!Dean and Samifer to defeat Chuck. That will be the only way God is the big bad will work for me. If Dabb et Al do that, might forgive many of his writing sins. Lol

Yeah, that would work for me too. And maybe get back to closer to the way the series was supposed to end in the first place.

[Castiels Cat]

11 hours ago, juppschmitz said:

That's not the definition of Chekhov's Gun.  

(But I realize this isn't a discussion blog for literary terms, so I won't keep arguing this point.)

It's a meta riff on the concept imo. The gun was a big meta joke insert. 

[ahrtee]

15 minutes ago, Castiels Cat said:

It's a meta riff on the concept imo. The gun was a big meta joke insert. 

I think you're giving them way too much credit for intelligence and subtlety.  I think they just needed a handy way to kill Jack that the boys could use and so came up with a gun.

Edited May 1, 2019 by ahrtee

[Castiels Cat]

1 minute ago, ahrtee said:

I think you're giving them way too much credit for intelligence and subtlety.

Nope. It was a big dumb joke... that fell flat.

Kind of like the lying.

Dean was awesome. Sam too. Their dialogue mostly worked.

I did like the general set-up of Dean grappling with killing his "son" but being unable to because he saw beyond the monstrous actions.

They have not written Cas well in years and they needed more development for his position. Likewise Jack's emotional state made no sense because they have never sat down and thought about soullessness and developed clear canon. Why does he care now? How?

Dean not playing to script has been a reoccurring theme. How did they just realize they were characters in God's stories though? Mmmm... From MatEotS, SS, Metatron,  MNIS and Nihilism Chuck's or Metatron's stories were mentioned as the script with only Dean being able to go off script a few times. Death's books being different possible endings to individual stories.

It was all meta meh.

[sarthaz]

On 4/28/2019 at 9:41 PM, catrox14 said:

I would prefer if they kill each other, it's because it's the Michael!Dean vs Samifer fight. But at this point, I don't trust Dabb to do it right as far as I can throw him. 

Wires.

[sarthaz]

On 4/29/2019 at 4:15 PM, ILoveReading said:

Part of me wonders if what Jensen is excited about is the set up to put the brothers back on the road, Saving people, hunting things and classic SPN eps.

They tease that every season, and it's always bullshit.

[Lastcall]

4 hours ago, sarthaz said:

They tease that every season, and it's always bullshit.

Dabb, “This season we are going smaller, more intimate.”

[catrox14]

7 hours ago, sarthaz said:

Wires.

No, I don't think they'll do that again.

[Res]

58 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

No, I don't think they'll do that again.

I wouldn't put anything past them as they do not seem to learn from their mistakes, case in point, Lucifer, just to name one.

[gonzosgirrl]

8 hours ago, Res said:

I wouldn't put anything past them as they do not seem to learn from their mistakes, case in point, Lucifer, just to name one.

I don't think there'd be enough money in the world to get Jensen up on those wires again though, knowing he can't trust Dabb and Singer not to literally hang him out to dry.

Edited May 2, 2019 by gonzosgirrl

[Lastcall]

On 5/2/2019 at 7:09 AM, gonzosgirrl said:

I don't think there'd be enough money in the world to get Jensen up on those wires again though, knowing he can't trust Dabb and Singer not to literally hang him out to dry.

If you want to see the PERFECT version of that fight and what it could have been watch the David/Farouk fight from Legion:episode 11 season 2.  Imagine Jensen singing if it helps (though it would be hard for him to top).

[Zipper]

Sooo sorry for the double post, I meant this to land here, not Unpopular Opinions.

I've given some thought to your many excellent ideas for what to do and not do in the final season, and here are my wishes: (1) any and all incarnations of Lucifer go away in the first episode, and stay away; (2) if and only if the actual series finale holds a super fantastic ending for the brothers, and they need Lucifer to be atomized does MP come back; (3) Jack is either promptly dispatched for good, or shuffled off early on to only appear in very limited scenes if necessary to assist the brothers in ending whatever final battle(s) occur.  

Honestly, they could re-tread almost any amount of previous season stuff and/or characters and I could still be reasonably happy, if I don't have to deal with Pellegrino (fine actor, but I'm exhausted with his devil schtick and his Nick trauma) or Jack as a regularly- appearing pseudo Winchester. OTOH if Billie knocks some sense into his dumb toddler/soulless a$$, I could tolerate a tiny bit more. But not much.

The idea above (sorry, can't find it quickly) that both JA and JP get a chance to create whatever growth/development they want to see in their characters is excellent, and I am so hoping that TPTB allow this. 

[ahrtee]

I wish I had the faith that some of you have expressed that the Js are going to have a reasonable amount of control over s.15, at least enough to get them back into the main part of the story and not be sidelined, but I think  Dabb etal have spent too much time setting up the Jack storyline just to drop it or shift it to someone else (I know they've done that with other SLs before, but not ones that they were really invested in. )  

So if the best we can hope for is to tie up loose/dangling ends, there are any number to choose from, aside from the current crap, like the whole Evil Chuck thing, the angel/demon/who's in charge and what’s going to happen to heaven and hell SL, the Jack/Lucifer SL, the Empty SL, and the zombie apocalypse.  So, to remind everyone (I know some have already been mentioned by others), in no particular order:

Adam and OG!Michael.  In theory, they could/should return together, since Michael is currently inhabiting Adam's vessel.  Are they (both/still) insane?  Can they be healed?  Can they help with the current crisis?

Where is Garth (last seen in the trunk of the Impala) and his pack?

What about the “rift” (or whatever) that the WS were supposed to be watching, to make sure nothing snuck out into our world?  And has Patience gone back to her father? 

Where’s Amara? (Assuming she’s not really in Reno...) 

Stories that were dropped like a hot rock (aside from Michael!Dean):

What’s going to happen to all the people (including Donatello) whose souls were eaten/stolen? 

BMoL.  I know they wiped out the American contingent, but what about the rest of them (especially “the old man” they kept referring to) back in Britain?  Have they just decided to ignore the Winchesters (again)?

Shadeem.  Why bring them up as Big Bads at all if they only showed up for 5 minutes?

Fairies, leprechauns, etc.

All the “sleeper cell” dogs waiting for the uprising (and what did the german shepard want to tell Dean but didn’t have time?)

What about the rest of the Stynes?  Supposedly they were a worldwide, centuries-old family.  Did wiping out one branch kill them all?

Ditto to Michael’s created monsters and the remainder of the Leviathan (even without Dick Roman). 

And sorry, but I can’t remember.  Who wound up with the Book of the Damned?  Rowena? Or is it locked up (more or less) in the bunker? 

People who are still around but not mentioned for a long time:

Jesse the Antichrist.  Kaia (who wanted to return to her "own" world, and must be pissed at Dean for breaking her spear).  Ketch.  Amy’s son. The Banes twins.  And whatever happened to the shifter baby who was given to Obnoxious  (demon) Campbell in  2 ½ Men?

How about Mrs. Tran, now that Kevin has “ascended”?  (And will we ever find out who his father was?)  Ellie from Trial & Error (did the hellhounds get her yet?)  And, most importantly, whatever happened to Olivette the hamster?

Live characters I’d like to see again:

Melanie from The Mentalists, Lisa and Ben, Aaron and his golem,  Elizabeth (Benny’s granddaughter),  Mildred.

Dead characters I’d like to see again (as long as they’re bringing people back):

Ellen, Henricksen, Benny (I know, unpopular with some), Rufus, Original Bobby (maybe), Crowley (only if Mark Shepard), Gordon, Jessica (maybe), Jimmy Novak, Alistair, Alpha vamp, Layla (I assume she’s dead), Mick.  And Original!Death

Characters I hope to NEVER see again:

Lucifer/Nick, Amelia/Don, Gabriel, Ruby (any version), Anna, any of the Campbells, Bela,  Becky, Kate the werewolf, any of the Ghostfacers, Metatron, anyone from Bloodlines, Cole.  And Claire. 

I know I’ve forgotten some.  What are your thoughts about dangling ends/dropped stories and characters you’d like to see again?

[S Cook Productions]

1 hour ago, ahrtee said:

I wish I had the faith that some of you have expressed that the Js are going to have a reasonable amount of control over s.15, at least enough to get them back into the main part of the story and not be sidelined, but I think  Dabb etal have spent too much time setting up the Jack storyline just to drop it or shift it to someone else (I know they've done that with other SLs before, but not ones that they were really invested in. )  

So if the best we can hope for is to tie up loose/dangling ends, there are any number to choose from, aside from the current crap, like the whole Evil Chuck thing, the angel/demon/who's in charge and what’s going to happen to heaven and hell SL, the Jack/Lucifer SL, the Empty SL, and the zombie apocalypse.  So, to remind everyone (I know some have already been mentioned by others), in no particular order:

Adam and OG!Michael.  In theory, they could/should return together, since Michael is currently inhabiting Adam's vessel.  Are they (both/still) insane?  Can they be healed?  Can they help with the current crisis?

Where is Garth (last seen in the trunk of the Impala) and his pack?

What about the “rift” (or whatever) that the WS were supposed to be watching, to make sure nothing snuck out into our world?  And has Patience gone back to her father? 

Where’s Amara? (Assuming she’s not really in Reno...) 

Stories that were dropped like a hot rock (aside from Michael!Dean):

What’s going to happen to all the people (including Donatello) whose souls were eaten/stolen? 

BMoL.  I know they wiped out the American contingent, but what about the rest of them (especially “the old man” they kept referring to) back in Britain?  Have they just decided to ignore the Winchesters (again)?

Shadeem.  Why bring them up as Big Bads at all if they only showed up for 5 minutes?

Fairies, leprechauns, etc.

All the “sleeper cell” dogs waiting for the uprising (and what did the german shepard want to tell Dean but didn’t have time?)

What about the rest of the Stynes?  Supposedly they were a worldwide, centuries-old family.  Did wiping out one branch kill them all?

Ditto to Michael’s created monsters and the remainder of the Leviathan (even without Dick Roman). 

And sorry, but I can’t remember.  Who wound up with the Book of the Damned?  Rowena? Or is it locked up (more or less) in the bunker? 

People who are still around but not mentioned for a long time:

Jesse the Antichrist.  Kaia (who wanted to return to her "own" world, and must be pissed at Dean for breaking her spear).  Ketch.  Amy’s son. The Banes twins.  And whatever happened to the shifter baby who was given to Obnoxious  (demon) Campbell in  2 ½ Men?

How about Mrs. Tran, now that Kevin has “ascended”?  (And will we ever find out who his father was?)  Ellie from Trial & Error (did the hellhounds get her yet?)  And, most importantly, whatever happened to Olivette the hamster?

Live characters I’d like to see again:

Melanie from The Mentalists, Lisa and Ben, Aaron and his golem,  Elizabeth (Benny’s granddaughter),  Mildred.

Dead characters I’d like to see again (as long as they’re bringing people back):

Ellen, Henricksen, Benny (I know, unpopular with some), Rufus, Original Bobby (maybe), Crowley (only if Mark Shepard), Gordon, Jessica (maybe), Jimmy Novak, Alistair, Alpha vamp, Layla (I assume she’s dead), Mick.  And Original!Death

Characters I hope to NEVER see again:

Lucifer/Nick, Amelia/Don, Gabriel, Ruby (any version), Anna, any of the Campbells, Bela,  Becky, Kate the werewolf, any of the Ghostfacers, Metatron, anyone from Bloodlines, Cole.  And Claire. 

I know I’ve forgotten some.  What are your thoughts about dangling ends/dropped stories and characters you’d like to see again?

That made me laugh. I agree with a lot of it.

I always wondered what happened to Daphne, Emmanuel’s wife. She just let Dean take her HUSBAND away for the night to heal his brother- but he never came home. Is she still waiting? It’s been 8 years. However, if you randomly pick up a naive naked man by the lake and marry him, I guess you kind of have to expect it will only get weirder. 

[ahrtee]

17 minutes ago, S Cook Productions said:

I always wondered what happened to Daphne, Emmanuel’s wife. She just let Dean take her HUSBAND away for the night to heal his brother- but he never came home. Is she still waiting? It’s been 8 years. However, if you randomly pick up a naive naked man by the lake and marry him, I guess you kind of have to expect it will only get weirder. 

Oh, I forgot about her!  I know there are others I missed (after all, 14 years of stories!) 😊

[DeeDee79]

2 hours ago, ahrtee said:

I wish I had the faith that some of you have expressed that the Js are going to have a reasonable amount of control over s.15, at least enough to get them back into the main part of the story and not be sidelined, but I think  Dabb etal have spent too much time setting up the Jack storyline just to drop it or shift it to someone else (I know they've done that with other SLs before, but not ones that they were really invested in. )  

So if the best we can hope for is to tie up loose/dangling ends, there are any number to choose from, aside from the current crap, like the whole Evil Chuck thing, the angel/demon/who's in charge and what’s going to happen to heaven and hell SL, the Jack/Lucifer SL, the Empty SL, and the zombie apocalypse.  So, to remind everyone (I know some have already been mentioned by others), in no particular order:

Adam and OG!Michael.  In theory, they could/should return together, since Michael is currently inhabiting Adam's vessel.  Are they (both/still) insane?  Can they be healed?  Can they help with the current crisis?

Where is Garth (last seen in the trunk of the Impala) and his pack?

What about the “rift” (or whatever) that the WS were supposed to be watching, to make sure nothing snuck out into our world?  And has Patience gone back to her father? 

Where’s Amara? (Assuming she’s not really in Reno...) 

Stories that were dropped like a hot rock (aside from Michael!Dean):

What’s going to happen to all the people (including Donatello) whose souls were eaten/stolen? 

BMoL.  I know they wiped out the American contingent, but what about the rest of them (especially “the old man” they kept referring to) back in Britain?  Have they just decided to ignore the Winchesters (again)?

Shadeem.  Why bring them up as Big Bads at all if they only showed up for 5 minutes?

Fairies, leprechauns, etc.

All the “sleeper cell” dogs waiting for the uprising (and what did the german shepard want to tell Dean but didn’t have time?)

What about the rest of the Stynes?  Supposedly they were a worldwide, centuries-old family.  Did wiping out one branch kill them all?

Ditto to Michael’s created monsters and the remainder of the Leviathan (even without Dick Roman). 

And sorry, but I can’t remember.  Who wound up with the Book of the Damned?  Rowena? Or is it locked up (more or less) in the bunker? 

People who are still around but not mentioned for a long time:

Jesse the Antichrist.  Kaia (who wanted to return to her "own" world, and must be pissed at Dean for breaking her spear).  Ketch.  Amy’s son. The Banes twins.  And whatever happened to the shifter baby who was given to Obnoxious  (demon) Campbell in  2 ½ Men?

How about Mrs. Tran, now that Kevin has “ascended”?  (And will we ever find out who his father was?)  Ellie from Trial & Error (did the hellhounds get her yet?)  And, most importantly, whatever happened to Olivette the hamster?

Live characters I’d like to see again:

Melanie from The Mentalists, Lisa and Ben, Aaron and his golem,  Elizabeth (Benny’s granddaughter),  Mildred.

Dead characters I’d like to see again (as long as they’re bringing people back):

Ellen, Henricksen, Benny (I know, unpopular with some), Rufus, Original Bobby (maybe), Crowley (only if Mark Shepard), Gordon, Jessica (maybe), Jimmy Novak, Alistair, Alpha vamp, Layla (I assume she’s dead), Mick.  And Original!Death

Characters I hope to NEVER see again:

Lucifer/Nick, Amelia/Don, Gabriel, Ruby (any version), Anna, any of the Campbells, Bela,  Becky, Kate the werewolf, any of the Ghostfacers, Metatron, anyone from Bloodlines, Cole.  And Claire. 

I know I’ve forgotten some.  What are your thoughts about dangling ends/dropped stories and characters you’d like to see again?

Great, thought provoking post! I agree with all of the characters that you'd like to see again with the exception of Mick. I'd rather not be subjected to any of the BMOL again; it was bad enough getting used to Ketch again! I would like to see OG!Bobby mainly because I want to know what happened to him in Heaven after Inside Man. They follow up on so many crappy storylines but ignore the ones that are actually interesting! 

[Castiels Cat]

2 hours ago, ahrtee said:

I wish I had the faith that some of you have expressed that the Js are going to have a reasonable amount of control over s.15, at least enough to get them back into the main part of the story and not be sidelined, but I think  Dabb etal have spent too much time setting up the Jack storyline just to drop it or shift it to someone else (I know they've done that with other SLs before, but not ones that they were really invested in. )  

So if the best we can hope for is to tie up loose/dangling ends, there are any number to choose from, aside from the current crap, like the whole Evil Chuck thing, the angel/demon/who's in charge and what’s going to happen to heaven and hell SL, the Jack/Lucifer SL, the Empty SL, and the zombie apocalypse.  So, to remind everyone (I know some have already been mentioned by others), in no particular order:

Adam and OG!Michael.  In theory, they could/should return together, since Michael is currently inhabiting Adam's vessel.  Are they (both/still) insane?  Can they be healed?  Can they help with the current crisis?

Where is Garth (last seen in the trunk of the Impala) and his pack?

What about the “rift” (or whatever) that the WS were supposed to be watching, to make sure nothing snuck out into our world?  And has Patience gone back to her father? 

Where’s Amara? (Assuming she’s not really in Reno...) 

Stories that were dropped like a hot rock (aside from Michael!Dean):

What’s going to happen to all the people (including Donatello) whose souls were eaten/stolen? 

BMoL.  I know they wiped out the American contingent, but what about the rest of them (especially “the old man” they kept referring to) back in Britain?  Have they just decided to ignore the Winchesters (again)?

Shadeem.  Why bring them up as Big Bads at all if they only showed up for 5 minutes?

Fairies, leprechauns, etc.

All the “sleeper cell” dogs waiting for the uprising (and what did the german shepard want to tell Dean but didn’t have time?)

What about the rest of the Stynes?  Supposedly they were a worldwide, centuries-old family.  Did wiping out one branch kill them all?

Ditto to Michael’s created monsters and the remainder of the Leviathan (even without Dick Roman). 

And sorry, but I can’t remember.  Who wound up with the Book of the Damned?  Rowena? Or is it locked up (more or less) in the bunker? 

People who are still around but not mentioned for a long time:

Jesse the Antichrist.  Kaia (who wanted to return to her "own" world, and must be pissed at Dean for breaking her spear).  Ketch.  Amy’s son. The Banes twins.  And whatever happened to the shifter baby who was given to Obnoxious  (demon) Campbell in  2 ½ Men?

How about Mrs. Tran, now that Kevin has “ascended”?  (And will we ever find out who his father was?)  Ellie from Trial & Error (did the hellhounds get her yet?)  And, most importantly, whatever happened to Olivette the hamster?

Live characters I’d like to see again:

Melanie from The Mentalists, Lisa and Ben, Aaron and his golem,  Elizabeth (Benny’s granddaughter),  Mildred.

Dead characters I’d like to see again (as long as they’re bringing people back):

Ellen, Henricksen, Benny (I know, unpopular with some), Rufus, Original Bobby (maybe), Crowley (only if Mark Shepard), Gordon, Jessica (maybe), Jimmy Novak, Alistair, Alpha vamp, Layla (I assume she’s dead), Mick.  And Original!Death

Characters I hope to NEVER see again:

Lucifer/Nick, Amelia/Don, Gabriel, Ruby (any version), Anna, any of the Campbells, Bela,  Becky, Kate the werewolf, any of the Ghostfacers, Metatron, anyone from Bloodlines, Cole.  And Claire. 

I know I’ve forgotten some.  What are your thoughts about dangling ends/dropped stories and characters you’d like to see again?

I believe Crowley had demons take care of the remaining leviathans. It was a kill the head and the rest were easy kind of scenario. At least that was implied by his demeanor at the end of Survival of the Fittest.

Jesse was only powerful during the pre-Apocalypse when Lucifer walked th he earth I believe. Wasn't his power linked to Lucifer's rise and a harbinger of sorts. He may just be normal now since the supernatural mojo of the seal breaking, etc. Has passed. 

Most soulless people appear to become immediately criminal and/or violent. Very few were like Len or Donatello from the demon motw episode or the Amara episodes.

I imagine Amara could side with Dean and help lock Chuck up. The fact that they are non longer palsy is interesting. It would be a glaring omission to leave her out.

Likewise Our Michael. Rowena can spring him. She had the BotD however the Winchesters may have it again since Absence. Of course Michael is insane. Chuck does that. He gave Michael a task then he changed it all at the last minute for the guy that refused to follow the program. Michael followed all of his orders and was shafted. He is nuts.

I don't care about Adam. I thought he was badly written and he was not loyal to them at all. However I read that J2 do care. 

Maybe Kaia can kill Dean and free Jensen from the dreck. One assumes they remembered to let Garth out. They sent Maggie to check on him. Isn't lock picking lesson 101? Surely she picked the lock and let him out.

The rift... that's ongoing and the reason we never see those folks. They are busy. Or it just stopped. Schrodinger's rift.

Those old men are waiting for a report from America before they proceed... that's how things are done. Actually Ketch in his urgent phone call in The Spear implied that the BMOL was just kaput didn't he. I think that the old men had come over for the eradication and Sam's ragtag team done killed em.

The shadeem are locked up deep in hell. Chuck could easily release them. It looked to me like he was just doing a standard end of the world per Revelations thing... ye older End of Days releasing the souls from hell or somesuch. IDk. Maybe he will keep finger snapping and things will go beyond the biblical.

I would love to see Benny too and Crowley. Mark S. Seems to have burned bridges.

I think with Death and Empty seemingly on the team and Chuck being outed as the original big bad both Lucifer and Michael will be back. Gabriel too... maybe even Zachariah and the other Michael... Metatron. Joshua...

Metatron knows Chuck really well especially the bad side. He is an asset unfortunately. This storyline means we are stuck with angels.

Seeing that Rowena is still around Crowley would be nice.  I would love to see Benny. Maybe they need to go to Purgatory to get into Hell.

[Lastcall]

3 hours ago, ahrtee said:

I wish I had the faith that some of you have expressed that the Js are going to have a reasonable amount of control over s.15, at least enough to get them back into the main part of the story and not be sidelined, but I think  Dabb etal have spent too much time setting up the Jack storyline just to drop it or shift it to someone else (I know they've done that with other SLs before, but not ones that they were really invested in. )  

So if the best we can hope for is to tie up loose/dangling ends, there are any number to choose from, aside from the current crap, like the whole Evil Chuck thing, the angel/demon/who's in charge and what’s going to happen to heaven and hell SL, the Jack/Lucifer SL, the Empty SL, and the zombie apocalypse.  So, to remind everyone (I know some have already been mentioned by others), in no particular order:

Adam and OG!Michael.  In theory, they could/should return together, since Michael is currently inhabiting Adam's vessel.  Are they (both/still) insane?  Can they be healed?  Can they help with the current crisis?

Where is Garth (last seen in the trunk of the Impala) and his pack?

What about the “rift” (or whatever) that the WS were supposed to be watching, to make sure nothing snuck out into our world?  And has Patience gone back to her father? 

Where’s Amara? (Assuming she’s not really in Reno...) 

Stories that were dropped like a hot rock (aside from Michael!Dean):

What’s going to happen to all the people (including Donatello) whose souls were eaten/stolen? 

BMoL.  I know they wiped out the American contingent, but what about the rest of them (especially “the old man” they kept referring to) back in Britain?  Have they just decided to ignore the Winchesters (again)?

Shadeem.  Why bring them up as Big Bads at all if they only showed up for 5 minutes?

Fairies, leprechauns, etc.

All the “sleeper cell” dogs waiting for the uprising (and what did the german shepard want to tell Dean but didn’t have time?)

What about the rest of the Stynes?  Supposedly they were a worldwide, centuries-old family.  Did wiping out one branch kill them all?

Ditto to Michael’s created monsters and the remainder of the Leviathan (even without Dick Roman). 

And sorry, but I can’t remember.  Who wound up with the Book of the Damned?  Rowena? Or is it locked up (more or less) in the bunker? 

People who are still around but not mentioned for a long time:

Jesse the Antichrist.  Kaia (who wanted to return to her "own" world, and must be pissed at Dean for breaking her spear).  Ketch.  Amy’s son. The Banes twins.  And whatever happened to the shifter baby who was given to Obnoxious  (demon) Campbell in  2 ½ Men?

How about Mrs. Tran, now that Kevin has “ascended”?  (And will we ever find out who his father was?)  Ellie from Trial & Error (did the hellhounds get her yet?)  And, most importantly, whatever happened to Olivette the hamster?

Live characters I’d like to see again:

Melanie from The Mentalists, Lisa and Ben, Aaron and his golem,  Elizabeth (Benny’s granddaughter),  Mildred.

Dead characters I’d like to see again (as long as they’re bringing people back):

Ellen, Henricksen, Benny (I know, unpopular with some), Rufus, Original Bobby (maybe), Crowley (only if Mark Shepard), Gordon, Jessica (maybe), Jimmy Novak, Alistair, Alpha vamp, Layla (I assume she’s dead), Mick.  And Original!Death

Characters I hope to NEVER see again:

Lucifer/Nick, Amelia/Don, Gabriel, Ruby (any version), Anna, any of the Campbells, Bela,  Becky, Kate the werewolf, any of the Ghostfacers, Metatron, anyone from Bloodlines, Cole.  And Claire. 

I know I’ve forgotten some.  What are your thoughts about dangling ends/dropped stories and characters you’d like to see again?

All great questions that I doubt we will ever see addressed. Most of those stories are from the background noise years so I doubt the current group even are aware they exist. We have to settle for head canon and the ideas posted here are far better then anything Dabb and co. Can come up with. 

My personal ones are all the Leviathans were sent back to Purgatory and the “body will flounder” was literal. Mostly base that on the decapitated Levi that vanished with Dean, Cas and Dick. Also because we have never heard about one since but Purgatory seemed filled with them when Dean was there.

The alpha monster takeovers I wrote off as Sam and Dean capturing them all when they were working for Crowley (ending with Alpha Rugaru).

I always thought Jesse vs Jack was inevitable but that would be for better writers. Adam/Michael would be good too but I hope everything just goes bare bones for the final season. Sam,Dean and Cas with a little Jack to help with days off. Sam stays with Dean and Cas stays with Jack. They sprinkle in some goodbye episodes for Jodi, Donna and Rowena but keep the focus on cleaning up the mess and going out on a high note.

[ahrtee]

29 minutes ago, Lastcall said:

My personal ones are all the Leviathans were sent back to Purgatory and the “body will flounder” was literal. Mostly base that on the decapitated Levi that vanished with Dean, Cas and Dick. Also because we have never heard about one since but Purgatory seemed filled with them when Dean was there.

1 hour ago, Castiels Cat said:

I believe Crowley had demons take care of the remaining leviathans. It was a kill the head and the rest were easy kind of scenario. At least that was implied by his demeanor at the end of Survival of the Fittest.

What Crowley actually said was: 

CROWLEY:  Cut off the head, and the body will flounder, after all. Think if you'd had just one king since before the first sunrise. You'd be in a kerfuffle, too.

SAM: Which is exactly what you wanted.

CROWLEY: So did you. Without a master plan, the Levis are just another monster. Hard to stomp, sure, but you love a challenge. Your job is to keep them from organizing.

And then he went on to disappear with Kevin, telling Sam he was on his own.  And since we know what Sam did that whole year (that is, hit a dog and no hunting) we might be assume some other hunters took over to hunt them, but no Winchesters.  And they would still be just as hard to kill (did anyone other than the Winchesters know *how* to kill them?)  

1 hour ago, Castiels Cat said:

Most soulless people appear to become immediately criminal and/or violent. Very few were like Len or Donatello from the demon motw episode or the Amara episodes.

We only saw a few of the soulless people (the ones who turned criminal/violent), but Amara was eating pretty constantly while she was growing.  We only saw the ones that caused problems for the boys.  We don't know how many others are wandering around, just feeling "empty" but not having violent urges, (like Len or Donatello).  

1 hour ago, Castiels Cat said:

Those old men are waiting for a report from America before they proceed... that's how things are done. Actually Ketch in his urgent phone call in The Spear implied that the BMOL was just kaput didn't he. I think that the old men had come over for the eradication and Sam's ragtag team done killed em.

The Evil Headmistress was on the phone (that is, computer) with the Brits when Sam and his group broke in.  She was trying to get them to rescue her. Sam shot the monitor to shut them up. I think they're still around.  (TBH, I don't remember much of season 14, so I just looked up The Spear, and all Ketch said was that he'd stolen the egg from a weapons collector and was sending it by priority mail, because he didn't have access to the BMoL courier service any more.  That IMO is because he's not a part of them any more, not that they don't exist.)  

33 minutes ago, Lastcall said:

The alpha monster takeovers I wrote off as Sam and Dean capturing them all when they were working for Crowley (ending with Alpha Rugaru).

IA Sam and Dean captured most (if not all) of the Alpha monsters (and I think the BMoL killed quite a few on their own) but I was thinking about the hybrids Michael was making--his own personal army (which included Garth.)  Weren't they the ones that killed all the AU hunters in the bunker?  Or did they all disappear/get magically cured when Michael was killed?

Oh, and I forgot to mention one other dangling bit:  Cas and the threat to take him to the Empty.  However, I can't see him being happy in the foreseeable future, so I guess that's off the table. 😊

35 minutes ago, Lastcall said:

I hope everything just goes bare bones for the final season. Sam,Dean and Cas with a little Jack to help with days off. Sam stays with Dean and Cas stays with Jack. They sprinkle in some goodbye episodes for Jodi, Donna and Rowena but keep the focus on cleaning up the mess and going out on a high note.

This would be my hope.  I'm just not that optimistic.  

[DeeDee79]

1 hour ago, Lastcall said:

I always thought Jesse vs Jack was inevitable but that would be for better writers

I wouldn't mind seeing a Jesse vs Jack scenario. Jack is more powerful than all of the angels and demons that we've seen on the show but Jesse mastered control of his powers when he was just a child. Yes, Jack is also technically a child 🙄 but Jesse displayed more maturity in a single episode than Jack has in 2 seasons which could also mean that he may be able to wield his power more masterfully. Personally, I think that Jesse could potentially emerge the victor in a show down against Jack. We've seen his ability to exert his power just by idly thinking about it plus he would have also have had years to perfect his ability without outside influences. Wishful thinking since I know that the current writers would say "Jesse? Who's Jesse?" if it were brought up.

[Castiels Cat]

On 5/8/2019 at 10:18 PM, ahrtee said:

What Crowley actually said was: 

CROWLEY:  Cut off the head, and the body will flounder, after all. Think if you'd had just one king since before the first sunrise. You'd be in a kerfuffle, too.

SAM: Which is exactly what you wanted.

CROWLEY: So did you. Without a master plan, the Levis are just another monster. Hard to stomp, sure, but you love a challenge. Your job is to keep them from organizing.

And then he went on to disappear with Kevin, telling Sam he was on his own.  And since we know what Sam did that whole year (that is, hit a dog and no hunting) we might be assume some other hunters took over to hunt them, but no Winchesters.  And they would still be just as hard to kill (did anyone other than the Winchesters know *how* to kill them?)  

We only saw a few of the soulless people (the ones who turned criminal/violent), but Amara was eating pretty constantly while she was growing.  We only saw the ones that caused problems for the boys.  We don't know how many others are wandering around, just feeling "empty" but not having violent urges, (like Len or Donatello).  

The Evil Headmistress was on the phone (that is, computer) with the Brits when Sam and his group broke in.  She was trying to get them to rescue her. Sam shot the monitor to shut them up. I think they're still around.  (TBH, I don't remember much of season 14, so I just looked up The Spear, and all Ketch said was that he'd stolen the egg from a weapons collector and was sending it by priority mail, because he didn't have access to the BMoL courier service any more.  That IMO is because he's not a part of them any more, not that they don't exist.)  

IA Sam and Dean captured most (if not all) of the Alpha monsters (and I think the BMoL killed quite a few on their own) but I was thinking about the hybrids Michael was making--his own personal army (which included Garth.)  Weren't they the ones that killed all the AU hunters in the bunker?  Or did they all disappear/get magically cured when Michael was killed?

Oh, and I forgot to mention one other dangling bit:  Cas and the threat to take him to the Empty.  However, I can't see him being happy in the foreseeable future, so I guess that's off the table. 😊

This would be my hope.  I'm just not that optimistic.  

OMG. Sam just left the world full of hungry leviathan too. I just can't...  if Dean only knew about that. People were eaten because Sam hit a dove and wouldn't pick up his phone.

Those old men are just lazy...

Well the season will be a snooze if Dabb tried to fix every dangling pothole and lordy if the nepotism duo gets hold of them the situation will degrade faster than we can say "rogue reaper" three times. 

I want them them to tell a solid story that resolves the current mytharc and character arcs, has good action and provides ample plot points for each main character without lol canon. I would love it if the three main characters were written in character to th ed or strengths. I would also like if an open door was left for a possible movie.

[SueB]

Highlights from the just released featurette: "Winchester Mythology: THE CHOICES WE MAKE"

These are the generic S15 'show is ending statements'

• Dabb: “God was not kidding when he said it was the end of the story, and by the end of the story he means the end of the world. The question of what that looks like, the question of how Sam and Dean deal with that, I think those are the big things that we’re gonna be exploring going into season 15.”
• Ackles: “Going into next year, who knows what’s gonna happen? We’re looking over that cliff again. And the world has just opened up, essentially, and all of those things that we have spent so many years fighting, they’re gonna come knocking now, and so it’s gonna be an all-out free-for-all.”
• Singer: “We’re just determined that we want the audience to be satisfied wherever these guys end up. Not to say that it might not be the happiest ending, but we want them to feel that the time they’ve invested has been worth it, their time, that we’re just not gonna ride off into the sunset without giving them something that they can really remember.
• Collins: I think that we’re opening up all of the possibilities of a really epic final season.
• Dabb: “Sam and Dean are like, ‘in the past we confronted this ‘cause we were forced to, ‘cause God put us I this position. He made us dance, to kind of his amusement basically.  Well, now we’re doing this for us. Now we’re doing this for this world.’ Again, Sam and Dean are still heroes. God made them heroes, and in some ways that was a mistake ‘cause he made the best heroes that have ever existed. They’re not gonna give up, they’re not gonna step back, they’re not gonna, you know, give up on this world and stop fighting. Sam and Dean will fight for the world and they’ll fight for their friends and they’ll fight for each other. Ultimately, these are guys that are gonna fight for the good of all people."  

[SueB]

Some speculation based on these generic comments:

1) So God being a manipulator the whole time SEEMS to be the party line -- no storyline where Chuck was affected in some way in recent years.  Now they can still back away from this, they haven't written the show, but Dabb seems pretty commited to it.  
2) They mentioned in the featurette that they had to have an excuse to de-power Jack because he's too powerful otherwise and could thus save everybody all the time.  I think the same issue is true with God.  He should be able to Thanos snap the planet out of existence.  They are going to have some random new lore or McGuffin that prevents the Thanos snap. Because otherwise there is no S15.  I don't now what it is, but I expect it to be some massive whopper - likely involving Billy.  Something that he put in place as a condition of creation that prevents him from just smashing it.  Maybe Amara can smash but she won't.  

Finally -- after last week's Game of Thrones controversial episode (for some, some are quite happy), there was a great thread on twitter about "plotters" versus "pantsers". This really influenced how I look at what's happened and what may happen in S15 for Supernatural.  Simplistically, plotters makes the story about the plot and has the characters do what is necessary to get from point A to point B.  "Pantser", OTOH, create characters who take them to various places and the writer sort of follows.  The issue with GoT (again in most simplistic terms) was that you have a book writer who is a 'pantser' that the showrunners followed until they needed to wrap up the show.  Then the showrunners were more 'plotters' and suddenly character arcs suffer in order to get to the point where GRRM ultimately was going to take them.  But the time to get there is rushed so the changes don't feel earned.

Entire thread - Silverman's words do not spoil Game of Thrones but other comments after his will:

Relevance to Supernatural:
- Kripke was always a plotter but Singer was a pantser and some strong writers really worked that balance very well so 'character' and the two boys became more important than the plot.  Kripke wisely let it run with more emphasis on character after it became obvious that this was what was keeping the show alive.
- Dabb is pure plotter IMO, Singer doesn't get involved as much, and the writing staff turnover in the last few years has not been helping. ERL & BB are usually given the 'go from point A to point B tasks' and their idea of who Sam & Dean are is not awesome.

It's my hope that Singer and J2's involvement will provide a better balance on character and Dabb will be smart enough to let that happen.    

[AwesomO4000]

6 hours ago, SueB said:

It's my hope that Singer and J2's involvement will provide a better balance on character and Dabb will be smart enough to let that happen.  

I do love and appreciate your optimism, SueB, and many times it's a main reason that keeps me coming back here, but I have little hope... actually less now than before. If the theme is "The choices we make" then that pretty much already damns Sam from the get go, doesn't it? Sam "chose" to shoot Chuck and piss him off and caused him to decide to end the world.

I really don't see how it can be spun any other way. I'm sure they'll have Dean make noises on how it's all their faults, blah blah, but everyone knows what the writers wrote and saw what happened, and how nice of Dean to accept some of the responsibility from his idiot of a brother and Castiel's over-optimistic mistakes, but it's all smoke and mirrors and the same story they have been telling since Carver took over in season 8. Sam screws up, Castiel screws up, and Dean must be the strong, smart, realistic one and carry on in the face of his idiot family.

Pretty much what I've been saying has been the basic idea for a long while now though, so I've pretty much become resigned to it.

[PAForrest]

Not sure where this is most appropriate, but I think here since it has nothing to do with spoilers but does refer to the show ending.

Anyway, I saw this tweet from the JiB con:

Jensen approached Dabb about bringing back some of the old writers to pen final episodes for the upcoming final season. #jib10 he doesn’t know if it’ll happen, but he’d like to see it.

From his lips.

[gonzosgirrl]

Watching the Jensen/Misha/Jared panel from the end of JIB10 and they confirmed that the season finale 14x20 was written after Dabb knew the show was ending and it 'informed' the episode. I'm not sure we had actual confirmation of that before.

[catrox14]

1 hour ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Watching the Jensen/Misha/Jared panel from the end of JIB10 and they confirmed that the season finale 14x20 was written after Dabb knew the show was ending and it 'informed' the episode. I'm not sure we had actual confirmation of that before.

I do have a morbid curiosity about what Dabb would have written without that circumstance.

[FlickChick]

I have a question. I don't know whether it belongs here or not, but it's about the final season. When will we know whether Mark Pellegrino or Alex Calvert are part of the final season or not? Comic Con? Or not until we see/not see their names as regulars along with Misha when S15 begins? Any ideas?

[SueB]

16 hours ago, FlickChick said:

I have a question. I don't know whether it belongs here or not, but it's about the final season. When will we know whether Mark Pellegrino or Alex Calvert are part of the final season or not? Comic Con? Or not until we see/not see their names as regulars along with Misha when S15 begins? Any ideas?

Plot dependent - I expect.  Jack is "alive" in the Empty.  So Calvert might be at Comic Con.  Pellegrino's character's (Nick/Ludicfer) are "dead".  So that would be more iffy.  Further, they didn't take him last year and he was all over the season. Of course his presence was also a surprise then.

The CW's press release isn't S15 focused - just that they ended S14 squaring off against God. So it's not clear if they have S14 cast listed and haven't updated.  

On another note: Jensen made a comment that he wanted the "Ending" to focus on the story of the Brothers.  Which makes me wonder.  It appears that they had at least ONE significant conversation about S15 before they wrapped S14.  And they are going to be working with the writers "in a couple of weeks" (as stated at the Upfronts).  Which presumably is after returning to from AHBL in Australia.  So, if J2 has a strong influence, I'd imagine we've seen the backend of Pellegrino.  He doesn't really drive the boys' story.  Just speculating. 

Edited May 22, 2019 by SueB

[ahrtee]

17 hours ago, FlickChick said:

I have a question. I don't know whether it belongs here or not, but it's about the final season. When will we know whether Mark Pellegrino or Alex Calvert are part of the final season or not? Comic Con? Or not until we see/not see their names as regulars along with Misha when S15 begins? Any ideas?

Since it was confirmed at JIB that the season 14 finale was written (or rewritten) after the end of the show announcement, it seems to me that the whole scene of having Jack wake up in the Empty shows that they're still planning on him next season. 

52 minutes ago, SueB said:

On another note: Jensen made a comment that he wanted the "Ending" to focus on the story of the Brothers.  Which makes me wonder.  It appears that they had at least ONE significant conversation about S15 before they wrapped S14.  And they are going to be working with the writers "in a couple of weeks" (as stated at the Upfronts).  Which presumably is after returning to from AHBL in Australia.  So, if J2 has a strong influence, I'd imagine we've seen the backend of Pellegrino.  He doesn't really drive the boys' story.  Just speculating. 

I know Jensen wanted the focus on the brothers, but I'm not sure if Dabb and B-L will be able to give up their pets.  Nick/Lucifer may not be driving the boys' story, but he is a major part of Jack's (unfortunately).  I guess it all depends on how much of an influence J2 actually have.  

[SueB]

3 hours ago, ahrtee said:

Since it was confirmed at JIB that the season 14 finale was written (or rewritten) after the end of the show announcement, it seems to me that the whole scene of having Jack wake up in the Empty shows that they're still planning on him next season. 

I know Jensen wanted the focus on the brothers, but I'm not sure if Dabb and B-L will be able to give up their pets.  Nick/Lucifer may not be driving the boys' story, but he is a major part of Jack's (unfortunately).  I guess it all depends on how much of an influence J2 actually have.  

I agree Jack is there. The weirdo smiley face Empty makes Lucifer and 'iffy' status.  J2's best argument would be to save the cash for music. Seriously.

[S Cook Productions]

5 hours ago, SueB said:

Plot dependent - I expect.  Jack is "alive" in the Empty.  So Calvert might be at Comic Con.  Pellegrino's character's (Nick/Ludicfer) are "dead".  So that would be more iffy.  Further, they didn't take him last year and he was all over the season. Of course his presence was also a surprise then.

The CW's press release isn't S15 focused - just that they ended S14 squaring off against God. So it's not clear if they have S14 cast listed and haven't updated.  

On another note: Jensen made a comment that he wanted the "Ending" to focus on the story of the Brothers.  Which makes me wonder.  It appears that they had at least ONE significant conversation about S15 before they wrapped S14.  And they are going to be working with the writers "in a couple of weeks" (as stated at the Upfronts).  Which presumably is after returning to from AHBL in Australia.  So, if J2 has a strong influence, I'd imagine we've seen the backend of Pellegrino.  He doesn't really drive the boys' story.  Just speculating. 

Yes, but from what I've heard at cons, they really like and respect Pellegrino and think he's a great actor- so they may want to continue to have him?

[gonzosgirrl]

22 minutes ago, S Cook Productions said:

Yes, but from what I've heard at cons, they really like and respect Pellegrino and think he's a great actor- so they may want to continue to have him?

I am sure this is true, but I would be the last nickel I own that they (J2) are every bit as over the Nickifer show as we* are.

*yes, I realize not everyone feels this way, but I don't know a single person who is clamoring for more.

[Pondlass1]

Final scene of final episode both brothers are dying (for real) to the strains of Bob Dylan singing Knocking on Heaven’s Door. It’s going to be a snot fest for cast and crew anyway so they might as well be dying.  Slow bloody deaths. I’m writing a story now. 😭

That final scene is going to be so fucking hard.  

Edited June 13, 2019 by Pondlass1