S01.E09: Songs About Texas

[tessaray]

Air date: March 19, 2019

Quote

Max and Michael visit a faith healer who may be able to shed some light on the alien symbol Max has been researching; Maria and Liz pay a visit to the same faith healer in hopes of finding a cure for Maria's ailing mother.

Shiri Appleby directs. 

[KittenPokerCheater]

This. Was. A. Great. Episode.

(more thoughts later).

[phoenics]

OH MY GOD!

I take back EVERY DOUBT and fear I had last week - this episode FINALLY felt like the Roswell magic I know and love!

Shiri Appleby you brilliant brilliant woman!  Please come back and direct EVERY episode forever.

*passes out from feels and euphoria*

Edited March 20, 2019 by phoenics

[Callaphera]

Wow, it took something like two or three episodes for Liz to go from "I hate you and never talk to me again, you evil person who covered up my sister's murder" to macking on him in the desert? Yeah... no. I understand that there are only so many episodes to work with but that's a little too fast. 

Also, if Liz was cold enough to need Max's jacket while wearing a long sleeved shirt and you could see their breath outside, it sure seemed warm and toasty for Michael and Maria to get it on outside with a real lack of clothes. Those two little blankets weren't going to do much in that case. 

[phoenics]

3 minutes ago, Callaphera said:

Also, if Liz was cold enough to need Max's jacket while wearing a long sleeved shirt and you could see their breath outside, it sure seemed warm and toasty for Michael and Maria to get it on outside with a real lack of clothes. Those two little blankets weren't going to do much in that case. 

They made their own heat.  *wink, wink*

[Callaphera]

1 minute ago, phoenics said:

They made their own heat.  *wink, wink*

*ducks OG fan tomatoes* I actually think Alex and Michael have more chemistry. I know Maria and Michael are a legacy ship or something (I didn't watch that far into the original) but I didn't actually see any heat from that. 

[phoenics]

One thing that is clear to me now though?  Carina (TPTB) are ripping off the old show and kinda writing a fanfic version of that.  There might be some influences from the books, but I think they only looked at the first book and then after that - they have been getting ideas from the show and writing a kinda future fanfic based on that with a few elements pulled from the books.

Because the whole faith healer thing with a Ms. River Dog lady to tell them of a female "Nacedo" who isn't really Nacedo - I don't know how TPTB aren't getting some shade from Fox/WB for being a bit too close to the OGShow on that.  Because crossing the alien with the Native Americans was nowhere in the books - that connection was ONLY made on the tv show.

[shapeshifter]

19 minutes ago, phoenics said:

OH MY GOD!

I take back EVERY DOUBT and fear I had last week - this episode FINALLY felt like the Roswell magic I know and love!

Shiri Appleby you brilliant brilliant woman!  Please come back and direct EVERY episode forever.

*passes out from feels and euphoria*

LOL! But ditto. 😉

I think my favorite moment was Noah calling off the search for Isobel.
And I liked that he wandered into the cave on his own
--plus it gave a plot reason for Max and Liz being "distracted."

[phoenics]

6 minutes ago, Callaphera said:

*ducks OG fan tomatoes* I actually think Alex and Michael have more chemistry. I know Maria and Michael are a legacy ship or something (I didn't watch that far into the original) but I didn't actually see any heat from that. 

That's fair - I've seen M&M chemistry from the start.  But it's more of a banter-ish chemistry - with some heat.  But Malex feels like it's 100% heat.

There is chemistry for both - they are just different kinds.  I think that's on purpose though, tbh.

My only worry - I really hope they aren't going to do some kind of "cosmic"/imprint thing with the aliens and humans.  Please please don't do that - not with Malex or Echo.  Don't bring that Vampire diaries/twilight crap into Roswell. 

6 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

LOL! But ditto. 😉

I think my favorite moment was Noah calling off the search for Isobel.
And I liked that he wandered into the cave on his own
--plus it gave a plot reason for Max and Liz being "distracted."

Yeah hahaha!  I was like Max!! Liz!! Noah's sneaking in - stop Kiss - wait DOON'T stop kissing!! LMAO!  I was so conflicted... in the end I was like "Welp, Noah's just gonna have to find out the truth, because if he interrupts M/L I will riot!"

Edited March 20, 2019 by phoenics

[ellieart]

The only time this show seems to work is when it rips off elements of the original show and claims they're "homages."  I may be the only person who didn't actually like the episode.  Yeah the nods were nice and Shiri did a great job directing, but beyond those blatant "homages," the episode was really just not that good.

I do honestly see way more chemistry between Michael and Maria than Michael and Alex though.  As for Max and Liz, yeah, still not into it.  That kiss had zero passion from where I was sitting. 

[phoenics]

This is the first episode though where there were multiple quotes we could pull that were funny in that OGshow way.

"Eventually I'll get to an appendage you actually care about."

"Is your type angry cowboy?"

"I dunno ... wizard murderer?"

"Is everyone in this town in love with Max Evans?"

"And you're always muttering in Spanish, like it's some secret language that no one understands but you, but hello, we're in New Mexico, we all speak Spanish!"

"To drink at a bar, obviously."

"It's the jalopeño room... real spicy..."

LOL - I didn't even get to all of them.

Edited March 20, 2019 by phoenics

[MzLiz]

That was a great episode. Seriously Michael Vlamis just sparks with everyone. Chemistry in spades. 

Moe thoughts later

[Samwise979]

Max and Liz, I'm kinda meh on. But I am so here for Michael and Maria AND Michael and Alex. Ugh I'm torn. I love both pairings. 

Edited March 20, 2019 by Samwise979

[phoenics]

2 minutes ago, Samwise979 said:

Max and Liz, I'm kinda meh on. But I am so here for Michael and Maria AND Michael and Alex. Ugh I'm torn. I love both pairings. 

So how should we split them?  Mondays, Wednesdays Fridays? #BlindDate

LOL.

And Michael Vlamis is a damn National Treasure.

And OH MY GOD I just realized that Michael and Maria are THE SAME!  Maria went into a Michael-esque rant.

"Please tell me you're not trying to navigate by the stars."

"Ohhhh I can lead the way, De Luca.  I'm one with the desert De Luca.  I'm basically a coyote, De Luca."

Hahahahaha!  She sounds JUST LIKE Michael!  

I could watch a WHOLE ass episode of the two of them bickering back and forth.  If they don't ever get back together I hope we get to keep that hilarious banter.

Edited March 20, 2019 by phoenics

[Callaphera]

47 minutes ago, ellieart said:

The only time this show seems to work is when it rips off elements of the original show and claims they're "homages."  I may be the only person who didn't actually like the episode.  Yeah the nods were nice and Shiri did a great job directing, but beyond those blatant "homages," the episode was really just not that good.

We can sit in the "meh" corner together. It's where all the good booze is.

[AnimeMania]

4 hours ago, phoenics said:

LOL - I didn't even get to all of them.

"How was the Alamo Room?"

"Oh, I will definitely remember it!"

[Cristofle]

This was a great episode. It felt like they corrected course on a lot of things, and finally more people are communicating with each other (Cameron with Kyle and Alex, Alex and Michael with each other, Max and Liz with each other, Max and MICHAEL with each other).

I remain deeply suspicious of Noah. And I'm more convinced than ever that Isobel either didn't kill the girls, or didn't have any control over her body when she did. 

I am also in the boat where I like Michael/Alex and Michael/Maria. I felt super bad for Alex when  he realized Michael and Maria had slept together, mostly because he forced himself NOT to make a big deal of it because he knew he didn't really have the right. 

There were definitely a lot of callbacks to the OG show- maybe because Shiri was directing? The old woman was like River Dog and the realization that an alien has been killing in Roswell was like the kids finding out about Nasedo - albeit that had been happening 40-50 years ago, versus someone has been killing in Roswell fairly recently.

[shapeshifter]

7 hours ago, phoenics said:

This is the first episode though where there were multiple quotes we could pull that were funny in that OGshow way. . . .

2 hours ago, AnimeMania said:

"How was the Alamo Room?"

"Oh, I will definitely remember it!"

It was the same kind of humor, wasn't it? But not as snappy as when Colin Hanks or Majandra Delfino delivered it, IMO—and maybe just not as clever dialogue either.

Still, I am a sucker for a bowl full of drama with humor on top.

Edited March 20, 2019 by shapeshifter

[phoenics]

1 hour ago, Cristofle said:

There were definitely a lot of callbacks to the OG show- maybe because Shiri was directing? The old woman was like River Dog and the realization that an alien has been killing in Roswell was like the kids finding out about Nasedo - albeit that had been happening 40-50 years ago, versus someone has been killing in Roswell fairly recently.

Shiri didn't write the episode, so other than how the lines were delivered and the direction, she wouldn't impact plot that way, would she?

I do think the callbacks and familiar M&M banter was her (or at least the style of it), but the River Dog thing - that's definitely TPTB ripping off the old show and twisting it (because there was no alien-Native American connection in the books).  Plus we've got Rosa's death being like Alex's death putting Max/Liz at odds.  And Noah/Isobel feeling a lot like Jesse/Isobel (although I'm convinced Noah is the 4th alien or FBI Alien Hunters R US).

Having Alex/Kyle and Cam running Project Shepherd is the only thing that feels truly original (that and the pod thing).

I do wonder what it meant that the old alien Mrs. RiverDog mentioned was a healer and that she could die now because "he is coming".  And then Max, Michael and Isobel came out of their pods presumably right when she died?  I can't wait to learn what that's about.  I feel an alien prophecy coming on (*titters excitedly*).

Also - did Jim Valenti die before or after Rosa?  After, right?

[Cristofle]

Quote

Also - did Jim Valenti die before or after Rosa?  After, right?

Definitely after - Kyle said "he was never the same after Rosa died."

Also, the person who was murdered in 2011 was about three years after Rosa died. 

[peachmangosteen]

Ugh, I loved this ep. I'm so pleased by this show.

OK so this was the first time I really saw real potential in Michael/Alex. Like they actually both seemed comfortable and present together finally lol. But I also very much love Michael/Maria, so it's tough. I'm super into Michael/Liz too tbh, but I know that's not ever gonna be a thing.

Kyle/Girl From The Originals/Alex coming together was my jam. More, please! I actually finally liked Girl From The Originals in this ep too, so I hope that continues. Is her name Cameron? I can't remember.

I'm super curious to know the deal with Noah. It's obvious he's either an alien or someone who has been sent to find/keep tabs on the aliens (by the government or maybe even the other alien), but I just can't decide which way it's gonna go. In any case, I hope he isn't full-on evil and/or he dies because I really like him.

Edited March 20, 2019 by peachmangosteen

[peachmangosteen]

Oh, also, lol forever at them doing '6 weeks later.'

[Cristofle]

I liked Kyle and Cam too. I thought they had some natural chemistry. 

I mostly like that I feel like the larger pod squad is starting to come together - Max and Liz are back on the same page, Michael and Alex are working on it, Max and Michael are getting along better, Michael and Liz are working together. Max and Kyle appear to be able to handle each other, lol. We just need Maria in on the secret, and for Max and Alex to spend some more time together.

[kirkola]

48 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

I'm super curious to know the deal with Noah. It's obvious he's either an alien or someone who has been sent to find/keep tabs on the aliens (by the government or maybe even the other alien), but I just can't decide which way it's gonna go. In any case, I hope he isn't full-on evil and/or he dies because I really like him.

If I was writing this, I would have Noah either figuring it out (via flashbacks) to weirdness surrounding Max and Isobel (like Isobel always getting her way) or I would have Isobel telling Noah while in one of her blackouts.  But that may just be me not wanting Noah to be full evil.

My other mostly random thoughts:

1) Why does everyone in town know they are alien?  It's like Liz is the worst secret keeper ever.  She immediately tells Kyle.  Alex clearly knows (though I don't remember that scene).  Kyle and Alex told Cameron.  And now we have proof that Noah knows too.  This gives Maria all the justification for being super-pissed at Liz (like she was in Original TV show) for being the last to know.  Unless Liz already confided in her too.

2) Overall nice job moving the plot along a bit.  Probably the best episode so far.  Though I'm still not warming to Liz at all.  I will, however, be fully amused if Michael ends up with attempting to be polyamorous (which would never work, because I can't see Michael being that honest with anyone).

[lala2]

11 hours ago, phoenics said:

OH MY GOD!

I take back EVERY DOUBT and fear I had last week - this episode FINALLY felt like the Roswell magic I know and love!

Shiri Appleby you brilliant brilliant woman!  Please come back and direct EVERY episode forever.

*passes out from feels and euphoria*

I didn't know Shiri directed this episode, but no wonder I actually liked it!! She understands Roswell! 

For me, this was the FIRST episode I really enjoyed. I actually felt like Max, Michael, Maria, and Liz were friends. The scene in the bar was cute, and they acted like real friends for once. 

I really like the Michael/Maria scenes. They are cute together. I'm still not on board with Max/Liz, which is so odd for me because I loved OG Max/Liz, but they were better last night than in other episodes, IMO. 

Anyway, I liked last night's episode. 

[Jenniferbug]

I love this show so much!

This episode was the first time I could really see these characters as the same characters from the original show. It hasn't bothered me that they're different, but this episode still make me feel warm and fuzzy. I may have rewound and watched the scene in the bar 3 or 4 times.

I wasn't sure what to think about Cameron, but I really like her being smart enough to go to Alex and Kyle, and I love the 3 of them working together. Also loved her telling Kyle she could kick his ass so not to dismiss her. 

I still have no idea what to think of Noah. I think there's more to him, but his reaction doesn't quite seem to fit with him being an alien or an agent. 

I'm so ready for Maria to find out they're aliens!

[Samwise979]

Yah, Noah's reaction to finding Isobel in the pod was just like, huh, ok, that's where she is. 

I don't necessarily think he's a bad guy but I feel like he already knew she was an alien. Or at least suspected...

[Cristofle]

I feel like Noah's been looking for some sort of hard proof (pressuring Isobel into telling him the truth and leaving her when she didn't, threatening Max to the sheriff) almost as if he were on a deadline, and now he has it. 

[shapeshifter]

3 hours ago, lala2 said:

I didn't know Shiri directed this episode, but no wonder I actually liked it!! She understands Roswell! 

If I ever do a rewatch it would be to see how Shiri's direction makes a difference in comparison to the other episodes.
If TPTB are smart, they'll sign her on as The Director.

[ellieart]

18 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

If I ever do a rewatch it would be to see how Shiri's direction makes a difference in comparison to the other episodes.
If TPTB are smart, they'll sign her on as The Director.

Whether Shiri were to direct all the episodes or not...she doesn't write for the show, so the content isn't her doing.  The bad dialogue and bad plotting would still be there.  

And besides, if they made her a consistent director, they could no longer use her as a ratings booster.

[tennisgurl]

I really love how much this show uses the New Mexico setting, I am obsessed with all of the desert shots and the uses of color outdoors  and the local culture and western patterns and all that, it makes for a more unique setting. I thought that was a really good episode, one of the better ones so far! They are using the characters and their relationships in ways that feel much more organic. I hope that they let Maria, Alex, and Cameron in on the secret soon, especially Alex, as he obviously knows whats up! Its like there are two organizations that are working opposite but for more or less the same goal.

So Maria/Michael huh? You know, I like their snarky banter and can see them having a bit of a friends with benefits thing going on, but I feel more romantic chemistry between him and Alex. Speaking of, I was really digging all of their scenes, I hope that they can figure something out soon. It seems like neither of them have really gotten over each other in years, so they either need to try again, or really move on. Starting off trying to be friends is probably a good start considering their history. But I mean, Maria/Michael/Alex could be an option too...

So Isobels husband just wandered into the cave and found her? Thats honestly kind of hilarious. Like, Max and Liz are having this big dramatic moment with all the kissing and hugging and angsty stares...and then the secret is out because hubbie just wandered into a cave. Opps! So, he totally knows the truth, right? He certainly didnt seem that confused as to seeing his wife in a glowing pod. 

Love seeing Maria being awesome again, and she, Max, Liz, and Michael all rocking out at that bar was cute. We are getting closer and closer to a Pod Squad! The show is taking awhile to get everyone together, but we`re getting there.

I keep reminding myself that its been six weeks, but its still some whiplash to see Liz going from "I will never forgive you here is my poison to get rid of your family's powers" to "I totally get it I forgive you lets kiss under the sunset" in what feels like just a few days. 

I like the friendship between Kyle and Alex a lot, especially when Kyle is giving him shit about his romance with Michael, while also encouraging him to talk with him again. "Angsty cowboys are?"

"...did you just threaten to tattle on us to our parents?"

Edited March 20, 2019 by tennisgurl

[Myrrhine]

17 hours ago, Callaphera said:

Wow, it took something like two or three episodes for Liz to go from "I hate you and never talk to me again, you evil person who covered up my sister's murder" to macking on him in the desert? Yeah... no. I understand that there are only so many episodes to work with but that's a little too fast. 

Also, if Liz was cold enough to need Max's jacket while wearing a long sleeved shirt and you could see their breath outside, it sure seemed warm and toasty for Michael and Maria to get it on outside with a real lack of clothes. Those two little blankets weren't going to do much in that case. 

I know they are trying have some bumps in the road for Max and Liz, but yes, maybe pushing them to the point where Liz committed to eternally hating him (yet it only lasted half a minute) was a misstep. 

15 hours ago, izzybee said:

I'm a little bit shook. Literally every complaint I've had about this show (Max still carrying a high school flame for Liz, Michael and Alex not even really knowing each other, Maria and Michael having too much chemistry to ignore, etc.) was acknowledged and leveraged to move the plot/relationships along. 

 I particularly appreciated the Michael / Alex thing. They had tons of heat, but I wanted to see more caring / friendship / something for their relationship, so hurray!

6 hours ago, kirkola said:

1) Why does everyone in town know they are alien?  

You mean the ever-burgeoning I Know An Alien Club? 

4 hours ago, Jenniferbug said:

I wasn't sure what to think about Cameron, but I really like her being smart enough to go to Alex and Kyle, and I love the 3 of them working together. Also loved her telling Kyle she could kick his ass so not to dismiss her. 

Yes! I initially liked her character, but she got really boring when she was just reluctant Manes lackey. Allying her with Kyle and Alex really pulled her back toward the center of the action and returned some of her agency. 

I overall enjoy watching this version of Roswell. I love the zippy pace of the plotting. (One zillion things happened this episode!) But I still have a number of gripes. First for this ep, if people are going to call Michael by his last name, could we PLEASE achieve consensus about how it is pronounced?!!!?! There may have been three different versions of it this ep alone. 

And I would deeply appreciate it if Michael would never wear a cowboy hat again. 

I was also going crazy when the healer told Max the clip art was something she'd seen somewhere, and he didn't even ask where she had seen it! Oh well, just stomp off in a huff then. Not like you are in a line of work that would ever involve learning to follow leads or ask follow-up questions to obtain information. Thank goodness, he did return to later to ask these super obvious questions, although I still felt like he could have pressed the older woman for more info about the woman who died. Did she ever leave silver handprints behind, for example. 

I found lots of parallels to the og show in this ep, especially Michael kissing Maria and then immediately stating that he kissed her to quiet her. 

Edited March 20, 2019 by Myrrhine

[shapeshifter]

3 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

I really love how much this show uses the New Mexico setting, I am obsessed with all of the desert shots and the uses of color outdoors  and the local culture and western patterns and all that, it makes for a more unique setting.

I love the NM vistas too; I just wish there were even more.

3 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

So Maria/Michael huh? You know, I like their snarky banter and can see them having a bit of a friends with benefits thing going on, but I feel more romantic chemistry between him and Alex.

Exactly!
  
  

If we don't already have a quote thread, I'll start one soon-ish.

Edited March 21, 2019 by shapeshifter

[Cristofle]

1 hour ago, Myrrhine said:

First for this ep, if people are going to call Michael by his last name, could we PLEASE achieve consensus about how it is pronounced?!!!?!

Everyone could call him Mikey like Liz did, lol. His reaction to it was hilarious. 

One thing that kind of surprised me was Michael challenging Alex about "what" he is, as if he's figured out Alex knows he's an alien. I'm not sure how that happened, given their general lack of interaction. 

8 hours ago, kirkola said:

Alex clearly knows (though I don't remember that scene).

Alex found out mostly by himself, as he explained last episode - after he found the alien material in the wall, he searched the dark web and figured out his father was an alien hunter, and so that's why he hacked into his father's files. That much makes sense. What I don't know - not to go all Friends- is how Michael knows he knows. 

[shapeshifter]

FWIW, I started this:
Quote Thread: Code phrases and such from the ever-burgeoning I Know An Alien Club

[Chick2Chic]

4 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

So Maria/Michael huh? You know, I like their snarky banter and can see them having a bit of a friends with benefits thing going on, but I feel more romantic chemistry between him and Alex

Considering Maria's barely had any screentime and even less story & development in this reboot of sorts compared to Alex, Michael, or pretty much any other character, that is a low bar IMO. I just dislike that Maria has been sidelined so much that instead of being her own significant character or core, I have been seeing her dismissed solely as some unworthy obstacle. As if Maria is little more than a day player. I want more for Maria and the character (+ actress) deserves better than what she has gotten most of this season.

I thought Michael & Maria have very strong chemistry not to mention their banter is fire so it could be more going forward if TPTB want to nurture it and write for her or them. That said, I am reluctant to invest cause I don't trust the showrunner (esp knowing she is a protegé of Julie Plec) to actually put in the effort when it comes to writing for and integrating Maria into the main story. But I dislike seeing her reduced to being an interloper and it frustrates me how badly Maria has been treated by the show so far. 

Edited March 21, 2019 by Chick2Chic
fixed something.

[KittenPokerCheater]

3 hours ago, Cristofle said:

One thing that kind of surprised me was Michael challenging Alex about "what" he is, as if he's figured out Alex knows he's an alien. I'm not sure how that happened, given their general lack of interaction. 

I wondered this too.  Hopefully they will explain this next episode.

I think this was the best episode so far, and not because of the kiss.  It was great to see them have some fun, and to see the whole group starting to gel.

[Emily Thrace]

7 hours ago, ellieart said:

Whether Shiri were to direct all the episodes or not...she doesn't write for the show, so the content isn't her doing.  The bad dialogue and bad plotting would still be there.  

And besides, if they made her a consistent director, they could no longer use her as a ratings booster.

Yeah one thing people forget about the OG and why it was actually a good show is that through sheer dumb luck (and Braga's typical short sightedness) it had Ronald D Moore.  Who is the best scifi writer of his generation (IMO I guess but a lot of people agree with me) and is one of the best television writers around.  So it was actually a lot better than a WB teen drama had any right to be. The character driven stories with tight plotting and smartass dialogue? That's signature RDM, he wasn't at his peak yet but he was still pretty damn good. Between this and Outlander he certainly has a talent for elevating mediocre books.

I am seriously annoyed at the treatment of Maria like others.  The idea that she is just some stumbling block for Alex and Michael is seriously irritating. There is still time to fix it though. Besides she owns the only bar in town on a show about grown ups that is an important character. 

Ironically Alex and Kyle actually have solid chemistry but I don't see that one happening.

[phoenics]

1 hour ago, Chick2Chic said:

Considering Maria's barely had any screentime and even less story & development in this reboot of sorts compared to Alex, Michael, or pretty much any other character, that is a low bar IMO. I just dislike that Maria has been sidelined so much that instead of being her own significant character or core, I have been seeing her dismissed solely as some unworthy obstacle. As if Maria is little more than a day player. I want more for Maria and the character (+ actress) deserves better than what she has gotten most of this season.

I thought Michael & Maria have very strong chemistry not to mention their banter is fire so it could be more going forward if TPTB want to nurture it and write for her or them. That said, I am reluctant to invest cause I don't trust the showrunner (esp knowing she is a protegé of Julie Plec) to actually put in the effort when it comes to writing for and integrating Maria into the main story. But I dislike seeing her reduced to being an interloper and it frustrates me how badly Maria has been treated by the show so far. 

I agree wholeheartedly with this.  It's made me really angry to see Maria portrayed almost like she's on Cam's level - when she should have more narrative importance than Cam (and Kyle and at least even w Alex).  But right now?  Oh she's just a friends with benefits situation w Michael as an interloper??

So wrong.  I'm so mad at TPTB - I feel like they intentionally marginalized Maria to undercut her popularity so they could build Malex up without Maria and M&M fans constantly clamoring for M&M (I don't care about her schedule - if they wanted Maria to be prominent from day one they would have gotten an actress who didn't have conflicts - though I love HH in the role).  What's really sad is that TPTB/Carina did that to the show's detriment because the sarcastic and funny Maria was desperately needed on this show - and having her play off of Michael the way she did was truly needed.

Two pairs of angsty couples just doesn't work.  It's why M/L and M&M worked so well on the OG show.  Here, we've got angsty Malex AND angsty M/L - good grief where is the humor?  Halfway through last night's episode I realized I hadn't laughed that hard ALL SEASON since that one "Are you sassing Jesus?" line.  That's INSANE for a show calling itself Roswell. The books AND the OG show used humor to balance out.

Further - I felt like the whole "cosmic connection" thing with Michael and Alex to be a complete and total copout for why we never got much real dialogue between the two of them - just weird, clipped and awkward single phrase lines that make NO sense now after seeing the flashback episode.  Unless some foolishness happened after Rosa died - but if it did, it feels like the show has decided to forget about it.  Which makes the M&A lack of dialogue (and weak dialogue) in the few scenes they got feel silly and just oddly antagonistic.

That TPTB are trying to pass that off now as "cosmic connection" (never mind snatching yet ANOTHER element from Max/Liz's canon importance) is irking me.

So apparently, Max has to have solid evidence and cause to feel the way he does about Liz or else it's unrealistic, but I'm supposed to buy Malex as cosmic, because?

Yeah nope.

Finally - while I do believe Malex has angsty, sexual chemistry when they are looking into each other's eyes and kissing, this does not translate (yet) to their sex scene.  That scene in the trailer was stilted, jerky and awkward.  I'm not sure if it was because Michael Vlamis looked like he was counting direction beats in his head (kiss Alex... pause... then turn him around... pause ... now toss him on bed... exhale to steel yourself... now jump on him) or what, but I was struck by how his scene with Maria was NOT stilted or awkward.  It was fluid because MV wasn't overthinking.

It's like watching a figure skater connect elements in a program.  You can't pause between elements or you don't get all the points.  Michael (Vlamis) paused in his scenes with Alex in the trailer, but there was zero pausing with Maria once both of them got over the shock of kissing each other.  Thus the former was jerky and the latter fluid.  Although Malex still gets major points from me from when Alex dragged his finger across Michael's mouth - whew - that was scorching hot.

Hopefully Vlamis gets more comfortable with Tyler for future scenes or I won't be able to not notice the stiltedness.  Maybe they need Shiri as  director?  Dunno.

[jewel21]

Gosh, Michael/Alex...Michael/Maria... who do I ship? I'm so torn, lol. 

[Callaphera]

I don't understand: why does Maria need to be a main character/have so much importance to the overall story? Most people has been pretty clear that they're disappointed that this isn't like the OG show or like the books and from my understanding, she was important to one or both of those. But this show is neither. There are background and minor characters in shows. Not all of them need to be starring roles. 

[methodwriter85]

Really enjoyed this episode!

[Grace19]

3 hours ago, Callaphera said:

I don't understand: why does Maria need to be a main character/have so much importance to the overall story? Most people has been pretty clear that they're disappointed that this isn't like the OG show or like the books and from my understanding, she was important to one or both of those. But this show is neither. There are background and minor characters in shows. Not all of them need to be starring roles. 

Maria doesn't need to be a main character if that's what the show runner wants. But you can't base your show on a book and another show, race swap one of the most popular characters and conveniently decide you no longer want that character to be a main character. It doesn't look good. The show runner said on twitter that she hated when other show deliberately cast a gay character as a side character so that they can justify not focusing on him, the irony is that she is doing the exact same thing to a black character. She deserves to be side eyed for that. I would rather she never included Maria or never changed her race if that was her plan all along. At least I wouldn't have  wasted my time watching it.

I don't love this episode as much as others did, in fact I've enjoyed most of the episodes, but I've never loved any of them. The show is okay, but its not that good. Michael and Maria was great, but the fact that she's not in on the secret is making me dislike this show. She's literary the least important person here. I'll just finish the season to see if it gets better for her.

I love Echo, but I hated they got together that quickly. No sane person in the real world would forgive Max for what he did to Rosa. Why did tptb even go in this direction? It doesn't make sense and its keeping me from enjoying echo even though I ship them.

Meh on Alex and Michael. Intrigued with Noah and Isabel. I love them together, I hope it works out for them. And they should get Isabel back quickly, Isabel/Max/Michael are the heart of the show and my favourite part of it.

[peachmangosteen]

9 hours ago, jewel21 said:

Gosh, Michael/Alex...Michael/Maria... who do I ship? I'm so torn, lol. 

Why not both?!

9 hours ago, phoenics said:

Hopefully Vlamis gets more comfortable with Tyler for future scenes ...

It's so crazy how people can see things so differently. To me, Tyler is the person who is keeping Michael/Alex from being able to really work because I think he looks uncomfortable with the whole thing. He holds back imo. Now, it could be a choice, and it does make some sense, but when you're trying to sell a couple on their sexual chemistry alone it doesn't really work if they don't even seem comfortable with each other. I'm glad they finally had them acknowledge they don't know each other and never talk lol. I want to like them because I think there's potential there, but they have to actually develop them for them to work because imo they don't have the natural chemistry that Michael/Maria have.

[Adira]

Besides Maria, who DOESN'T know about the aliens??  Seems like everyone from their graduating class knows, plus Cameron and Noah... so basically everyone their age except Maria.

[Cristofle]

3 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

It's so crazy how people can see things so differently. To me, Tyler is the person who is keeping Michael/Alex from being able to really work because I think he looks uncomfortable with the whole thing. He holds back imo. Now, it could be a choice, and it does make some sense, but when you're trying to sell a couple on their sexual chemistry alone it doesn't really work if they don't even seem comfortable with each other. I'm glad they finally had them acknowledge they don't know each other and never talk lol. I want to like them because I think there's potential there, but they have to actually develop them for them to work because imo they don't have the natural chemistry that Michael/Maria have.

While I think Michael/Alex have chemistry, and I wasn't enough of a Michael/Maria fan (I liked them, but they weren't my OTP) for it to derail my enjoyment if Michael doesn't end up with her this time around, I agree that it's Tyler playing things like he's holding back, not Vlamis. 

I definitely think the writers made a mistake having the trio actively cover up Rosa's death like they did, whoever ultimately killed her, and I wouldn't have held it against Liz if she could never get over it, but I'm also not that fussed that she's forgiven them (at least Max and Michael) and I'm trying to figure out why? LOL. Maybe it's because I don't particularly like Rosa. Objectively, I take a step back and they did a terrible thing, but I have a hard time emotionally connecting to her or to her relationship with Liz. 

[phoenics]

16 hours ago, Callaphera said:

I don't understand: why does Maria need to be a main character/have so much importance to the overall story? Most people has been pretty clear that they're disappointed that this isn't like the OG show or like the books and from my understanding, she was important to one or both of those. But this show is neither. There are background and minor characters in shows. Not all of them need to be starring roles. 

Like another said, if the showrunners don't want her to be important narratively, that's their prerogative.

But because that's her canon importance in both the books (which this is based on) and the OGShow and she had a huge fan following from both, it does stink to suddenly erase her just as they made her a black woman.

This showrunner talks a huge game about "do no harm" in terms of not wanting to write negative tropes about LGBTQ characters - but then she racebends Maria and dumps a pile of really bad racial tropes on her and the fandom?  It looks horribly bad to racebend Maria, erase her and then take away her narrative importance - almost like you're sabotaging the character to undermine her popularity in order to prop up the couple you replaced her twice canon couple with.

And - not for nothing, but since Maria has been canon with Michael both in the books and on the show, I'd say while she's not to the level of Max/Liz, she's kinda up there and close to that level in terms of importance.  Even in the books when she and Michael didn't come together fully until the last book (even though they were still joined at the hip anyway), they still had that familiar banter and relationship (though not as cutting as on the OG show).  And just like folks wouldn't think of erasing Lois Lane and Superman together, why erase Maria?  Why reduce her to an interloping plot device?  And why make her black to do it?  It makes me wish they hadn't race bent her - because I HATE seeing women who look like me get shafted on shows like this - especially since this happens so much in Julie Plec's universe of shows.

And as many of you know - I warned about this from the start.  I wanted to be wrong, too.  I still hope I am.

But if Maria/Michael had been given equal bantering time against Malex time from day one - the fanbase would be clamoring for a lot more of M&M.  It's not like this show didn't give us a TON of Max/Cameron pretty damn early on (episode 2).  But that didn't happen with M&M and Malex.  Based on how the show has literally erased Maria - I no longer think that was a coincidence - I think that was the plan all along to give Malex more time to solidify and to drive away fans (look at the ratings) who were hoping for M&M magic.  That's why TPTB didn't care that Heather Hemmons had other committments.

To them, that was a feature.  Not a bug.

[phoenics]

8 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

Why not both?!

It's so crazy how people can see things so differently. To me, Tyler is the person who is keeping Michael/Alex from being able to really work because I think he looks uncomfortable with the whole thing. He holds back imo. Now, it could be a choice, and it does make some sense, but when you're trying to sell a couple on their sexual chemistry alone it doesn't really work if they don't even seem comfortable with each other. I'm glad they finally had them acknowledge they don't know each other and never talk lol. I want to like them because I think there's potential there, but they have to actually develop them for them to work because imo they don't have the natural chemistry that Michael/Maria have.

Wow - it is crazy how we can see things so differently.  I've never seen Tyler in anything else, so I had nothing to compare it too.  I just remember feeling the trailer sex scene being awkward - and it wasn't until I saw how fluid M&M seemed to be with one another that I figured it must be MV.  

Apparently I need to go do more research, lol - not like that's a burden, lol!

[peachmangosteen]

4 minutes ago, phoenics said:

Wow - it is crazy how we can see things so differently.  I've never seen Tyler in anything else, so I had nothing to compare it too.

I think that might be it for me. He had wonderful, natural chem with Ashley Benson on Pretty Little Liars and his chem with MV in this show doesn't even come close imo.

[Callaphera]

12 hours ago, Grace19 said:

Maria doesn't need to be a main character if that's what the show runner wants. But you can't base your show on a book and another show, race swap one of the most popular characters and conveniently decide you no longer want that character to be a main character. It doesn't look good. The show runner said on twitter that she hated when other show deliberately cast a gay character as a side character so that they can justify not focusing on him, the irony is that she is doing the exact same thing to a black character. She deserves to be side eyed for that. I would rather she never included Maria or never changed her race if that was her plan all along. At least I wouldn't have  wasted my time watching it.

2 minutes ago, phoenics said:

But because that's her canon importance in both the books (which this is based on) and the OGShow and she had a huge fan following from both, it does stink to suddenly erase her just as they made her a black woman.

I'm not arguing against representation because it's important. I don't know whether the people behind the show purposely casted a black actress in the role or whether she was simply the best match for the role. But from a story standpoint, Maria really doesn't have much and doesn't have much room even if they gave her anything. She bridged the gap between Liz and Rosa by somehow being both of their besties back in the day and her mom is connected to the myth arc - but they didn't bother bringing it up until halfway through the first season which makes it seem more like an after-thought. That's... about it, really. 

(All with a heavy dose of IMO incoming) They don't seem to have any reason for her - which is unfair, because the actress is good - but at the same time, we've got three relationships and three mysteries running at the same time. They made the show too ambitious for the first season and we're not getting enough time to spend on each relationship and each mystery so I can see why there's no room for Maria - unless she joins the Junior Alien-Busters in the Bunker. I'd rather Maria be underused than shoehorned in to throw a bone to the OG fans, which is how the Michael/Maria desert sexing came across to me (I also don't like her being the spoiler to the only same sex relationship on the show). There's no breathing room to make her anything but a wacky side character who shows up to point Liz in the right direction for the episode and then go back to being wacky. I'm surprised that they didn't have her hook up with Kyle in a Pair the Spares trope. 

Maybe it's because I'm not an OG fan and I've never read the books but again, this is neither. This is it's own beast for good or bad. Maybe they have plans for Maria if the show continues beyond the first season but right now, I honestly don't see space for the character other than popping up occasionally the same way Isobel's husband has - and he's married to one of the main characters.