S09.E14: Scars

[Persnickety1]

6 hours ago, AngelaHunter said:

After being forced to stop watching this silly dreck last night, I had to go look up this for comparison. One of the greatest - if not THE greatest scene of this show, IMHO. This got me back into watching after I quit in Se02. Not only no monologuing but truly great without a single word spoken and none were needed:

I couldn't agree more.

That opening scene was just sublime, and I agree that was the best this show has (or ever will) offer. 

[OoohMaggie]

2 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

My memory is pretty horrible, but at one point I thought Maggie had an opportunity to kill Nagen in his jail cell and she opted not too.  I though she said something to the affect that "Nagen was already dead" or something like that.  I believe that was the episode where they (Michonne, Daryl, Maggie, etc.) ran off to help Rick as he was bleeding out.  Rick blew up the bridge with himself on it.

Yeah, the two incidents were very close together, if not on the same day in the timeline.

[OoohMaggie]

27 minutes ago, Persnickety1 said:

That opening scene was just sublime, and I agree that was the best this show has (or ever will) offer. 

Oooohhhh, I’m not so sure about that, you’ve got some stiff competition for that claim! 😱

[heisenberg]

It could have been a good episode but I had too much trouble trying to figure out who was who, when was when and why was why.

Edited March 18, 2019 by heisenberg

[OoohMaggie]

16 minutes ago, heisenberg said:

It could have been a good episode but I had too much trouble trying to figure out who was who, when was when and why was why.

Lol, I had to rewind a few times to check on Michonne’s hairstyle or baby bump to work out where the hell I was with the story.

[AngelaHunter]

4 hours ago, Lady Iris said:

We totally need a Dog origin story!

I'm pretty sure I'd watch a whole episode of that.

1 hour ago, OoohMaggie said:

Oooohhhh, I’m not so sure about that, you’ve got some stiff competition for that claim!

For me, the only scene(s) that could equal the one I posted was Rick trapped in the house with the Merletones. That had me on the edge of my seat, something which has not happened since. I'm noticing a pattern here. The scenes with little or no endless gabbing are the most gripping. 

1 hour ago, heisenberg said:

It could have been a good episode but I had too much trouble trying to figure out who was who, when was when and why was why.

I just lost interest in who, what, where and when and thought, "Oh, to hell with this." And someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure branding with a red-hot branding iron leaves indentations on the skin, not big raised, rope-like scars?

[Mu Shu]

2 hours ago, AngelaHunter said:

I'm pretty sure I'd watch a whole episode of that.

For me, the only scene(s) that could equal the one I posted was Rick trapped in the house with the Merletones. That had me on the edge of my seat, something which has not happened since. I'm noticing a pattern here. The scenes with little or no endless gabbing are the most gripping. 

I just lost interest in who, what, where and when and thought, "Oh, to hell with this." And someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure branding with a red-hot branding iron leaves indentations on the skin, not big raised, rope-like scars?

Keloids.  But where the fuck did those brats get a brand? No one who has livestock has a generic X brand.  Did these little fuckers get taught blacksmithing by michonnes nemesis?  They’re several steps ahead of Henry.  Well, until Michonne sliced and diced they feral asses they were. 

[lasandi]

I must say when those kids were surrounding Michonne, I was hollering “stick those f’s”. I need to stop drinking and watching this show.  Lol

[MrsRafaelBarba]

I liked the scene when Michonne, Toddler Judith Daryl and the other kids came back home.

For me, showed how children are adopted by entire communities in this world.

Judith ran into Rosita's arms, while Siddiq  tended to her mom.

In all likelihood, the folks the others ran to, probably are not their  Biological parents.

[Cherokee Rose]

11 hours ago, AngelaHunter said:

After being forced to stop watching this silly dreck last night, I had to go look up this for comparison. One of the greatest - if not THE greatest scene of this show, IMHO. This got me back into watching after I quit in Se02. Not only no monologuing but truly great without a single word spoken and none were needed:

Wow, thanks for that!! I'd forgot how wonderful this show could be. This episode said and accomplished so much in so little time; and as you said, without words. Just think how the show could've ended up, if this had continued. What a difference now.

I, too, was totally lost in following time in "Scars", and kept looking at Michonne's appearance for clues. And re-winding the tv. And even more so, as my tv provider showed ads, and skipped 3-4 minutes of the show right after the return from the opening credit break. I saw the un-shown part on the second airing of the episode.

I agree with some who mentioned this episode might have been better placed earlier in the season, closer to whent the even occurred. Afterall, no actual worry about Michonne and Daryl, as we knew they made it thru the event. Then, such a dramatic build-up to the scar "mystery" -- I expected more.

Also, though the event was traumatic for Michonne, and others who had kids kidnapped; I don't see that it was big enough to cause Michonne to totally stop communication with the other communities. For goodness sakes, they'd been thru a lot more than this. Seems not enough to cause such an extreme reaction from Michonne. No matter how much losing her own child, Andre, and Rick made her feel prior to this. I don't buy this as a good enough reason.

Edited March 19, 2019 by Cherokee Rose

[Cherokee Rose]

5 hours ago, Mu Shu said:

SO...Michonne is from ATL.

Just wondered? Do we really know Michonne started off in Altanta?

5 hours ago, Mu Shu said:

This was stupid.  I don't fault Michonne at all for killing those kids. 

I don't either. Sure, it's heartbreaking, but what other choice did she have?

[Cotypubby]

Story-wise, where is Maggie supposed to be right now? We’ve seen Alexandria and the Kingdom but I completely forget if we’ve seen Hilltop this season. 

The constant time jumps, flash backs and mid-season hiatuses sure do make it difficult to remember what happened when. 

[Whimsy]

On 3/18/2019 at 12:36 AM, MVFrostsMyPie said:

That's funny, I must have a UO cause her reaction when she first realized Rutina Wesley was her old friend, I was thinking, "wow, what an underwhelming reaction." I guess the wig sucks out some talent. 

I agree.  She took way too long, IMO, to realize who that was and I thought the acting was terrible in that particular scene.  I usually don't have any issues with Denai's acting, though.  But, that definitely stood out to me. 

22 hours ago, theredhead77 said:

This episode was great. It established RJ is a real child and not a hallucination, why Michonne changed and why Michonne and Darryl have a brand. It left me wanting to know more about Jocelyn and how she became the monster she was and if the adults in their party truly died or if she kidnapped her child-army.

This was still a question?  I didn't realize that.  I know it was way back in the beginning of the season, but I didn't think that question was still lingering.  

20 hours ago, Ohwell said:

While I understand calling Michonne "mommy" because she's the only mother she's ever known in her short life, Judith does know that Michonne isn't her real mother.  Right? 

An argument can be made that she IS her real mother.  "Adopted" (quotation marks because there are no legal proceedings in the ZA) parents are most certainly real parents; however, the argument can be made against Michonne as really being a parent because, as far as I'm concerned, just feeding kids a few meals here and there do not make a real parent.  I'm sure there's so much more that Michonne has done as a parent off-screen, but what has been shown on screen seriously makes me question her mothering skills.  

17 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

ETA:  That did seem like a weird place to put a house number "71" on that house.  On the top riser above the brick stairs leading to the house.  What if it snows? 

That's not that weird in Alexandria.  It doesn't really snow there like it does up north.  We lived in Alexandria for a couple of years and a few snowflakes would cause people to panic and hunker down in their houses, but it was never more than an inch or two.  My hubby and I are from very snowy areas (me- MN, him- MA), so we would just roll our eyes at everyone.  But, the point is, there would never be so much snow to cover the house number. 

12 hours ago, AngelaHunter said:

I just lost interest in who, what, where and when and thought, "Oh, to hell with this." And someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure branding with a red-hot branding iron leaves indentations on the skin, not big raised, rope-like scars?

A quick (very gross) google search shows some of both.  So, I'm not sure what causes the scars to raise.  The temperature?  How long it was held there?  All I know is that my third degree bacon grease burns down my arm are raised, so I just assumed all burn scars became raised. 

[Haleth]

21 hours ago, nodorothyparker said:

it never occurred to Michonne to wonder if every horrible thing that's happened in the ZA might not have also changed the person she used to know, even as it's been a recurring idea throughout the series that they've all had to do these horrible things to survive and protect the people they love and that those experiences have warped and changed them.   

The previouslies clip of Michonne saying "people don't change" and Judith replying "you did" should have been a clue.

22 hours ago, Ohwell said:

The direction in this episode was chunky. 

Yes.  Like, how did Daryl get untied?

20 hours ago, Ohwell said:

While I understand calling Michonne "mommy" because she's the only mother she's ever known in her short life, Judith does know that Michonne isn't her real mother.  Right? 

Michonne is her real mother.  Lori just gave birth to her.

For the most part I liked this episode because of Danai if for no other reason.  Jocelyn and her children were more terrifying than the whisperers.

[Lady Iris]

38 minutes ago, Haleth said:

Yes.  Like, how did Daryl get untied?

They showed his fingers fiddling with the ropes as Michonne was waking up. Presto magic.

[AngelaHunter]

54 minutes ago, Haleth said:

Michonne is her real mother.

The person who raises you is your parent, certainly, (Beth was Judith's mom for a time. Funny how Beth never once mentioned her after they all fled the prison) but maybe Ohwell meant "biological" mother? I'm pretty sure the overly-precocious Judith figured that out on her own.

[iMonrey]

Quote

The direction in this episode was chunky.  The only way I could tell "then" from "now" was looking at Michonne's changed hairstyle and her belly.

And correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think Eugene's hair was that long right after Rick disappeared, so the continuity there wasn't quite right either.

Quote

After being forced to stop watching this silly dreck last night, I had to go look up this for comparison. One of the greatest - if not THE greatest scene of this show, IMHO. This got me back into watching after I quit in Se02. Not only no monologuing but truly great without a single word spoken and none were needed:

Oh, why'd you have to go and remind me of when this show was good? I've been tempted to go back and watch the earlier seasons on Netflix, but doing so would make the current season completely unbearable. 

[mightysparrow]

This episode's saving grace was the performances.  Danai was outstanding and the rest of the cast stepped up to match her performance.  Once again, Danai proved that she's one of the best actor's on this show.  Michonne's scenes with Daryl were some of the best work Norman's done in ages.  We saw glimmers of the old Daryl in this episode, the man who would do anything for his friends.  NR must have been relieved to step back into a supporting role here.  NR's not a lead actor, never has been but with a good scene partner, he can rise to the occasion.  I don't care for the little girl who plays Judith; there's too much of the 'professional' child about her.  But the scenes between Daryl and Judith were very nice.  I'd been calling for interaction between Daryl and Judith because I never believed that he wouldn't be there for Rick's child.  I hope he's teaching RJ how to use a bow and arrow.

Rutina Wesley was also very good.  The scene at the table between Jocelyn and Michonne was fantastic and it resonated even more once you knew that she'd been playing Michonne the whole time.  People always slam Michonne for 'scowling' and being so taciturn as if she didn't have a right to after all she's been through.  But in this episode, we got to see what all that scowling was covering up.  Michonne has one of the biggest and softest hearts; that's what brought her and Carl together.  Her warrior pose was created to protect herself from unbearable pain.  Michonne let her guard down when she thought she had been reunited with her best friend from the old days at a time when she REALLY needed a good friend, a GIRLFRIEND.

I think it's a shame that Jocelyn was a one-off bad-guy because her character had way more long-term potential than the whole herd of Whisperers.  Rutina gave us glimpses of what brought Jocelyn to this point.  You could tell she wasn't a psychopath before the ZA.  She talked about the other adults in her group breaking, but it was clear that the ZA has broken her and this was her response.  I would have liked to see more of Jocelyn and her urchins.  A redemption arc for her would be way more interesting than trying to redeem a murdering, rapist like Negan, who did what he did because he LIKED it.

One of the things I liked about this episode was the glimpses of the other characters we barely ever get to see.  Why does this fucking show keep adding characters we don't care about and make no fucking sense, when they have interesting characters played by really good actors that we never get to see.   I want to see more of Aaron and how he's raising Gracie.  Sonnequa's husband (I'm too lazy to look) is a good actor and a very nice looking man.  He and Michonne would make a very nice couple.

The only thing I'm hoping for in the next two episodes is for somebody, ANYBODY to put these fucking kids in their place.  Whoever it was that led Henry and Judith to believe that they knew better than anybody else was dead wrong.  These dreadful kids go off and do whatever the fuck they want, putting their lives and the lives of their communities at risk.  Where does this sense of entitlement come from?  Is it because Judith is The Great Rick Grimes daughter and Henry is the son of the King and Queen of The Kingdom?  Do they think they're better than everybody else and can do what they want?  There's got to be somebody as fed up with these hateful kids as I am.

[Lady Iris]

43 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

Oh, why'd you have to go and remind me of when this show was good? I've been tempted to go back and watch the earlier seasons on Netflix, but doing so would make the current season completely unbearable. 

Still so much dead space that took up Season 2 that I don't relish looking back at anytime soon. Lot of great moments that could've been condensed into a few eps imo.

[Lady Iris]

It just occurred to me that its an injustice to have Negan as the father figure to Judith. If its anybody it should be Daryl. I get that he's off playing in the dirt pile and such but I'll never forget him holding and feeding her when she was a baby.

[mightysparrow]

1 minute ago, Lady Iris said:

It just occurred to me that its an injustice to have Negan as the father figure to Judith. If its anybody it should be Daryl. I get that he's off playing in the dirt pile and such but I'll never forget him holding and feeding her when she was a baby.

The absurdity of Negan being Judith Grimes' confidant is overwhelming.  Michonne clearly needs to be doing a better job with Judith but I can't believe that the rest of the adults don't take an interest in her as well and make sure ALL the kids are well-supervised and heading in the right direction.  I can't believe that Daryl would spend his time moping in the woods with a Dog while his best friend's children are close by.  Daryl might not be a 'people-person' but he would make sure Rick's kids were okay.

Judith is being 'groomed' by a man who is an expert.  It isn't 'friendship, it's ABUSE and it's disgusting to watch.  Someone needs to stick a shiv in Negan and put everyone out of their misery.

[Lady Iris]

Yeah, now that this is rolling around in my head, this is bad. What would Daryl think if he knew Judith has bonded with Negan? Damn, what a major plot hole.

[mightysparrow]

1 minute ago, Lady Iris said:

Yeah, now that this is rolling around in my head, this is bad. What would Daryl think if he knew Judith has bonded with Negan? Damn, what a major plot hole.

It's a huge plot hole.  I find it very interesting that NOBODY working on this show realize just how inappropriate Judith's relationship with Negan is.  They think this is going to redeem him but it proves that he hasn't changed one damn bit. 

[OoohMaggie]

11 hours ago, Cotypubby said:

Story-wise, where is Maggie supposed to be right now?

After her seven years on the show, we were helpfully informed by Siddiq that she was “some place far” with Hershel and helping Georgie with a new community.

Her exit didn’t quite compare with Rick’s showstopper.

[mightysparrow]

Just now, OoohMaggie said:

After her seven years on the show, we were helpfully informed by Siddiq that she was “some place far” with Hershel and helping Georgie with a new community.

Her exit didn’t quite compare with Rick’s showstopper.

DISGRACEFUL!

Sorry for shouting, but I'm so angry about what they did to Maggie.  And to add insult to injury, IT'S ALL MICHONNE'S FAULT.  They really know how to screw over cast members that aren't in the 'favourites' club.

[OoohMaggie]

12 hours ago, Cherokee Rose said:

Seems not enough to cause such an extreme reaction from Michonne. No matter how much losing her own child, Andre, and Rick made her feel prior to this. I don't buy this as a good enough reason.

Certainly not good enough to carry it on for five years.

[Eulipian 5k]

Regarding Daryl serving as a father figure to Judith, I don't think Merle and Daryl had a good father figure either, judging from their social skills and hygiene. But most of these adults seem to have a "go play in traffic" attitude as to what kids do with their spare time. How about a school maybe? Besides Carol's Head Stabbing Academy from Alexandria.

Edited March 19, 2019 by Eulipian 5k

[Lady Iris]

I'm willing to give a bit of play with that time frame of five years, as valid as her reasons were she had to chop down a bunch of non-zombie children on the spot. At least Carol had time to realize the ramifications that came from having to kill what's her face, Look at the Flowers girl.

Edited March 19, 2019 by Lady Iris

[AngelaHunter]

1 hour ago, OoohMaggie said:

we were helpfully informed by Siddiq that she was “some place far”

Could have been worse, I guess. He could have replied, "Maggie WHO?"

1 hour ago, mightysparrow said:

Michonne clearly needs to be doing a better job with Judith

Really. Having no clue that Judith spends so much time running around hither and yon with a gun and chatting with a sadistic rapist is kind of neglectful. 

Speaking of Negan, his whole big "Great Escape" was all for nothing. I guess they had to do justify the money they're paying JDM, so gave him all this screen time to do pointless things.

[ljenkins782]

On 3/17/2019 at 10:53 PM, nodorothyparker said:

This was better in concept than execution but I didn't hate it.  The opening was a quite poignant bit of aftermath of the bridge going boom, or it would have been had we not had to sit through more than half a season of other stuff to see it.  Loved Daryl and Michonne interacting as they were both still hunting Rick and struggling to come to terms with not finding him.

The transitions between past and present were rather clunky and the whole thing with the scars felt like rather weak nonanswers.  Again,  if you're going to make us wait a half season for them, they better be damn good answers  that do indeed resolve the mystery you set up and are actually worth waiting for.

It did feel out of place. Honestly, at this point, I've completely forgotten about Rick and am semi-interested in the current goings on, so the flashback of hunting for him was not as meaningful as it would have been closer to his last episode. 

Granted, I was multitasking through the episode so I missed the transition from the old Michonne story to the Whisperers saying they had to go tell Alpha, but it felt like a clunky add-on at the end of an episode that had very little to do with them. 

It just feels like treading water sometimes when they flip around to different stories, like they're filling the space until the big confrontation, which has to wait until sweeps or season finale time. 

The significance of the scar part escaped me (again, not paying full attention to the screen). What was the purpose of it? 

Quote

DISGRACEFUL!

Sorry for shouting, but I'm so angry about what they did to Maggie.  And to add insult to injury, IT'S ALL MICHONNE'S FAULT.  They really know how to screw over cast members that aren't in the 'favourites' club.

I don't know, it seems like the show runners were doing Lauren Cohan a favor by leaving the door open for her to come back if her new show flopped. 

Perhaps not giving her a blockbuster exit was a concession for her not fulfilling the expectations for the character that they probably had. She chose to leave, they could have killed her off and she'd be SOL if the new show didn't work out, but they instead gave her the safety net. 

Edited March 19, 2019 by ljenkins782

[Nashville]

2 hours ago, Eulipian 5k said:

How about a school maybe? Besides Carol's Head Stabbing Academy from Alexandria.

Was that Alexandria?  I thought that was Carol’s Prison Shank Story Time.

[Eulipian 5k]

1 hour ago, icemiser69 said:

If only someone had told Henry to "go play in traffic".  I can dream, can't I?

Headline: "Teenage Romeo mowed down by 2 horsepower minivan."

[Yakima]

3 hours ago, mightysparrow said:

This episode's saving grace was the performances.  Danai was outstanding and the rest of the cast stepped up to match her performance.  Once again, Danai proved that she's one of the best actor's on this showI 

I just don't get this love for Danai.  All she does is scowl and whisper and she's just so damn ugly she's hard to watch.  Bring Maggie back and have her kill Michonne for being a shit mother to Judith.    

[marcee]

I think the why and how of the whole "isolated Alexandria" was kind of answered when Michonne was speaking to Lydia. The concept of, "If it was just me? I'd just go away and save everyone else... but it's not just me anymore." After losing Rick, she feels responsible for everyone - especially her kids. Is it a weak excuse? Yes. Is it poor writing? For sure.

...

[Eulipian 5k]

2 minutes ago, marcee said:

when Michonne was speaking to Lydia. The concept of, "If it was just me? I'd just go away and save everyone else... but it's not just me anymore."

That conversation sounded to me as a subtle, (why?) hint to Lydia - "You could go away and save everyone else from having to deal with Elpha coming here looking for your ass."

[ljenkins782]

6 minutes ago, Eulipian 5k said:

That conversation sounded to me as a subtle, (why?) hint to Lydia - "You could go away and save everyone else from having to deal with Elpha coming here looking for your ass."

That was how I took it too. Like "you care about Henry, right? Well, you're going to get him (and the rest of us) killed if you stay..." 

[OoohMaggie]

2 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

I was never a fan of Maggie or Glenn.   Maggie's "exit" was written in a way where she could come back.  She isn't dead.   I think she has a much better chance of coming back than Heath.  I liked Heath.

Maggie’s ‘exit’ was nothing short of despicable, nobody at the time knew whether she would ever be coming back, and with that in mind, a seven year, A list veteran of the show, should have been given an on screen goodbye, whether permanent or temporary.

A goodbye not only to her fans but also to the characters she has spent years fighting and surviving with, we all watched and enjoyed Rick’s last hurrah, yet none of us knew it was also Maggie’s last hurrah, we had to wait a day or so to be told, oh by the way guys, that was also Maggie’s last appearance on the show, sorry about that but we didn’t think it was worth mentioning in case it spoiled Rick’s grand exit.

No matter what problems there may have been with her and the show, she deserved better.

Grrrrrrrrrrr 🤬

Edited March 19, 2019 by OoohMaggie

[marcee]

24 minutes ago, Eulipian 5k said:

That conversation sounded to me as a subtle, (why?) hint to Lydia - "You could go away and save everyone else from having to deal with Elpha coming here looking for your ass."

16 minutes ago, ljenkins782 said:

That was how I took it too. Like "you care about Henry, right? Well, you're going to get him (and the rest of us) killed if you stay..." 

Yes, of course - that was the more obvious "hint" to Lydia - but I think the writers were trying to make the point paralleling Michonne's own struggle. If she didn't have the kids, would she just walk away now that Rick's gone? If leaving would've saved RIck's life, would she have left sooner? So deep. *eyeroll*

[OoohMaggie]

41 minutes ago, marcee said:

After losing Rick, she feels responsible for everyone - especially her kids. Is it a weak excuse? Yes. Is it poor writing? For sure.

But why would the other Alexandrians go along with her isolationist ideal? I can’t see Father G or Eugene willingly cutting themselves  off from the other communities for years on end, or any of the other council members or everyday folk.

[TV Anonymous]

14 minutes ago, OoohMaggie said:

Maggie’s ‘exit’ was nothing short of despicable, nobody at the time knew whether she would ever be coming back, and with that in mind, a seven year, A list veteran of the show, should have been given an on screen goodbye, whether permanent or temporary.

A goodbye not only to her fans but also to the characters she has spent years fighting and surviving with, we all watched and enjoyed Rick’s last hurrah, yet none of us knew it was also Maggie’s last hurrah, we had to wait a day or so to be told, oh by the way guys, that was also Maggie’s last appearance on the show, sorry about that but we didn’t think it was worth mentioning in case it spoiled Rick’s grand exit.

No matter what problems there may have been with her and the show, she deserved better.

Grrrrrrrrrrr 🤬

I think Maggie's matters relate directly to Lauren Cohan and Whiskey Cavalier. Maybe when S8 was written she was not yet committed there and by the time S9 started filming she was already busy. As Whiskey Cavalier was a new show with unknown fate - I for one am done with it - TPTB needed to have room for Cohan's return.

[AngelaHunter]

6 minutes ago, OoohMaggie said:

But why would the other Alexandrians go along with her isolationist ideal?

Maybe with Rick's passing the Great Python of Authority passed to his girlfriend and all must obey? With this show, who knows?

[OoohMaggie]

19 hours ago, AngelaHunter said:

Maybe with Rick's passing the Great Python of Authority passed to his girlfriend and all must obey? With this show, who knows?

Wasn’t the Great Python of Authority placed in a wooden box? Until obviously The Brat decided to lift it and go and rescue Daryl, as most ten year old girls would do, I was trying to think what I would have done as a ten year old, but I would  probably have been watching Sesame St 🐸

Edited March 20, 2019 by OoohMaggie

[marcee]

32 minutes ago, OoohMaggie said:

But why would the other Alexandrians go along with her isolationist ideal? I can’t see Father G or Eugene willingly cutting themselves  off from the other communities for years on end, or any of the other council members or everyday folk.

So there's a council and I imagine there were likely a few dissenting votes...but perhaps the warm comfort of known safety was a stronger pull than open trade and potential danger? Especially after all of their kids disappeared for a hot minute. Seemed an easy thing to accept out of fear. Then a year or two goes by and a few council members start to switch their votes, but Michonne continues to "win" - and, based on what was said in a previous episode (hell if I remember now and I sure as fuck am not going back to rewatch it), since Michonne always ended up being the deciding vote, the council simply got used to deferring to her. Or she'd "veto" their decision... and they'd just accept it because she was their leader and was successful at keeping them safe for a relatively long time. Which, I think, was basically what Father PP or Aaron had said. And even though they may disagree, they'll continue to defer to her...which is what they did.

I mean, there is something to be said for the feeling of safety and security in the Z-apocalypse.

Edited March 19, 2019 by marcee

[OoohMaggie]

4 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

We know that Aaron has been leaving Alexandria, so I am not so sure the rest couldn't leave as well if they really wanted to.

The odd person slipping out unnoticed doesn’t constitute formal communications, trade or help between the communities, any of which I’m sure Michonne would have been all over, if certain members of Alex felt that way, why couldn’t they have brought the issue up with the council, especially after five years of being on their own.

I just can’t accept that the Alexandrian community in totality would have willingly kept themselves isolated from not only friends, who they have fought and survived alongside for many years, but people they can help and trade with in exactly the same way as they can be helped and traded with in equal measure. That silly scar incident doesn’t justify the next few years of self imposed isolation, for me at any rate.

[mightysparrow]

I think it's easy to put the estrangement of the colonies all on Michonne, for various reasons.  Big bad meanie Michonne is an easy excuse but it doesn't hold up.  The decision to isolate Alexandria was a GROUP decision.  Michonne is the leader of Alexandria because of her intelligence and strength, because she's the one who stepped up and because of her completely misplaced loyalty to Rick, who ISN'T WORTH IT.  Apparently, the trauma caused by Jocelyn and the Urchins was a group thing.  The citizens of Alexandria don't seem unhappy under Michonne's leadership.  She had to talk Aaron into letting Daryl and the rest into Alexandria.  I can't blame Aaron.  Word's probably gotten out about what a waste of air Henry was and why should Aaron risk his home and his loved ones for that little shit.

It doesn't seem like The Kingdom was crying into their pillows over the break-up until supplies started to run-out.

The beef with Maggie is a different thing and it would be nice to find out what happened there.  THAT seems personal.  Once again, it's easy to blame Michonne but Maggie is a grown ass woman and she might be equally responsible.

[mightysparrow]

1 hour ago, OoohMaggie said:

Maggie’s ‘exit’ was nothing short of despicable, nobody at the time knew whether she would ever be coming back, and with that in mind, a seven year, A list veteran of the show, should have been given an on screen goodbye, whether permanent or temporary.

A goodbye not only to her fans but also to the characters she has spent years fighting and surviving with, we all watched and enjoyed Rick’s last hurrah, yet none of us knew it was also Maggie’s last hurrah, we had to wait a day or so to be told, oh by the way guys, that was also Maggie’s last appearance on the show, sorry about that but we didn’t think it was worth mentioning in case it spoiled Rick’s grand exit.

No matter what problems there may have been with her and the show, she deserved better.

Grrrrrrrrrrr 🤬

I agree 100%. 

Tptb punished Lauren for refusing to take less money and for deciding to move on.  Apparently knowing your worth is a bad thing.  They had no problem tossing money at NR or at MMB, but Maggie, who is a core character connected to multiple core characters was tossed aside like she was nothing.  Kind of like Carl was.

[AngelaHunter]

22 minutes ago, mightysparrow said:

, but Maggie, who is a core character connected to multiple core characters was tossed aside like she was nothing.  Kind of like Carl was.

Yeah, they gave her disappearance a few words, from Saddiq of all people (seeing as how they were so close), that she is now "far away" (sounds like the beginning of a fairy tale or Shrek) BUT, unlike Carl, they didn't make her die in the dumbest, most embarrassing way possible. That's not to say both options don't seriously suck big time. Maggie was no favorite of mine, but she's someone who was there nearly from the beginning so maybe a little exit scene may have been appropriate, rather than have her vanish in a puff of smoke We see no one who gave a shit and we have to hear about it from Saddiq in as few words as possible? I'm back to "so dumb", which now satisfies me. 

1 hour ago, OoohMaggie said:

Wasn’t the Great Python of Authority placed in a wooden box?

Was it? Kind of like Wyatt Earp's Buntline Special? 🤣

Speaking of Rick, am I remembering correctly that his protracted exit scenes were constantly interrupted as we had to get back to the all-important Negan and his blethering?

[OoohMaggie]

25 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

I am not so sure what good the council is, if one person can cancel out the council vote.

Exactly, why would the entire Alexandrian community willingly let themselves suffer because of a lack of interaction with the other communities, just because Michonne says so? It doesn’t make sense.

[AngelaHunter]

On 3/18/2019 at 3:37 PM, icemiser69 said:

I thought Maggie had an opportunity to kill Nagen in his jail cell and she opted not too.  I though she said something to the affect that "Nagen was already dead" or something like that.

You didn't think Kirkman was going to give up his alter-ego, self-insert that easily, did you?

[OoohMaggie]

1 hour ago, marcee said:

I mean, there is something to be said for the feeling of safety and security in the Z-apocalypse.

The people in Alex had good friends in the other communities, people they fought alongside in the Saviour War, would they really just play along with Michonne’s view for five years? That’s a long time to keep yourself isolated from good, decent, like minded people.