Shrill - General Discussion

[ElectricBoogaloo]

S2.E2: Kevin

Quote

Annie starts her freelance career by interviewing the Troll. Fran is heartbroken after she finds out Vic is not exclusive. When no one reads Annie’s article, she realizes going freelance may not be as positive a move as she thought when she quit The Thorn.

Although not as much happened in this episode plotwise, I liked that we got to see the aftermath of the first episode: Annie's first day of freelancing, going back to the office to pick up the last of her stuff, finding out how hard it is to get people to read your blog when you don't have a following there, etc.

I was really surprised that she went back to see her troll and that she told him she wanted to interview him so that she could write about what happened. I was even more surprised that he agreed to it.

Awww, poor Fran. It's bad enough when you are way more into someone than they are into you, but to find out that she moved in with someone else and never mentioned it? Ouch. I'm glad that Emily told her what was going on.

The host at the open mic night was a little shouty and overdramatic at time, but God Only Knows is such a lovely song so I enjoyed hearing it.

Edited January 27, 2020 by ElectricBoogaloo

[ElectricBoogaloo]

2.3 quotes

Amadi: Maureen tells everybody that her uncle came up with the idea for Hooters and his name is Fred Hooters.

Amadi: You should come to Ruthie's birthday party. It's going to be at the Oaks Park skating rink. Studio 54 themed.
Annie: Wow. "1970s dress code. Must have full bush."

Wait, you want us to believe that the woman who called me a prude bitch for never being in an orgy hasn't had sex in a month?

Fran: It's only a dry spell if you're thirsty.

Gabe: Your clothes are all wrong. They're all from the fucking 90s. Rollerblades didn't exist in the 70s.
Ruthie's friend: Well, neither did we. But, I don't know. We just thought it was old and vintage. Like you. What the fuck is this music? Is this like a joke song or something?

Claw machine guy: You're not a loser! But you're acting like one.

Annie: So Andy's going by DJ Pussy Hound now?

Ruthie's friend: Whoa, be careful, dude. That's ketamine.
Ruthie: Think about how much coke you would normally do and do like a tenth of that.

Edited January 27, 2020 by ElectricBoogaloo

[ElectricBoogaloo]

S2.E3: Skate

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After a month of being her own boss, Annie is starting to crack. She can't find work and she misses her old friends from The Thorn. Ryan comes with her to Ruthie's roller-skating birthday party to reconnect with her old friends and face Gabe.

Am I the crazy one because I don't have an entire closet stacked with rolls of toilet paper like Annie's parents?

I was glad that Annie finally confessed that she missed her job and that freelancing was much harder than she thought it would be. I was cringing very time she lied about what she was up to. And I was glad when Amadi encouraged her to just be honest and ask Gabe for her job back. I mean, at worst he would say no and she'd still be where she is now (unemployed). But of course K-hole Gabe isn't going to remember that conversation. Hopefully his lyft driver didn't kill him and leave him in a ditch somewhere. Ugh, if that happened, would his awful daughter Ruthie take over? Imagine that.

Even though Gabe sucks, I laughed at his seething rage about the two kids who dressed in 90s clothes and rollerblades for a 70s disco themed party.

Edited January 27, 2020 by ElectricBoogaloo

[Quickbeam]

I just started watching this. I really like it. The abortion scene was amazing. You don’t see it treated that clearly or accurately in mainstream media. 
 

My only issue is with Aidy’s hair. It could be really pretty but always looks like a rats nest on the show. I guess it is purposeful but it bugs. 

[SoMuchTV]

10 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

 

2.3

Am I the crazy one because I don't have an entire closet stacked with rolls of toilet paper like Annie's parents?

 

I’m going to have to say yes. I’m about the age of Annie’s parents, and I’ve only recently figured out that buying the warehouse store brand of tp by the pallet is much better than trying to figure out the best deal, or what do I have a coupon for, or did we like that quilted one or that bargain one...

But in my defense, it’s not unwrapped on a shelf, it’s in the packages in the garage. Wait, is that not better?

i guess life is good when you’re not living on the edge in the toilet paper department. 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

7 hours ago, SoMuchTV said:

I’m going to have to say yes. I’m about the age of Annie’s parents, and I’ve only recently figured out that buying the warehouse store brand of tp by the pallet is much better than trying to figure out the best deal, or what do I have a coupon for, or did we like that quilted one or that bargain one...

But in my defense, it’s not unwrapped on a shelf, it’s in the packages in the garage. Wait, is that not better?

i guess life is good when you’re not living on the edge in the toilet paper department. 

I get my TP at Cost Co too but I'm a lazy person with limited storage space in my house so I leave all the rolls in the plastic. I can't imagine having so any shelves and closets that I could dedicate one to just TP! On a slightly more germaphobic note, wouldn't all that toilet paper get dusty sitting on the shelves for so long?

But yes, having an abundance of toilet paper is much better than the opposite!

[ElectricBoogaloo]

2.4 quotes

Ruthie: I want to get Botox. Can I get the Thorn to pay for that?
Gabe: That would be for Amadi. I'm only entertaining creative or existential questions.
Ruthie: Uh, can I, sir?
Amadi: Absolutely not.
Gabe: My God, that is ruthless, Amadi. Boo, Amadi, boo!

Angus: You know, Cody lives with his grandma and she's his best friend. So cool.

Ruthie: Omigosh, it's Cody candy time!
Annie: Good god damn it, he's just handing out candy bars.

Gabe: You have the honor of doing the Thorn's freak of the week.
Annie: Oh, but freak of the week - isn't that more like a survey and isn't Angus in charge of that?
Gabe: He was in charge of it until that woman's boa constrictor made eye contact with him and now he's scared.

Amadi: Andy, are you asking me if it's legal to impregnate your sister?
Andy: The sperm is for my sister's wife but if she gets pregnant, shouldn't I get paternity leave?

Amadi: First thing in the morning and I'm already having the jizz conversation. Living the dream.

Amadi: Ever since I went to design school, I always dreamed about coming in and revamping  a company's antiquated payroll system.

Annie: My dad's met [Ryan] but my mom hasn't and she can be extremely judgmental.
Maureen: I remember when my mom met my boyfriend. And now he's my step-dad.

Ryan: How do I look?
Fran: You look like a park ranger in a porno.
 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

S2.E4: Freak

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Annie comes back to The Thorn. She's lost her footing there and now is relegated to the Freak of the Week column. But she's in a great place with Ryan and takes him to dinner with her parents. The newly single Fran takes herself out on a solo date.

I just can't with Annie's mom. She kept making all kinds of food comments during dinner. It drives me crazy when people demonize food or ascribe eating something to being good or bad ("I've already been so bad eating pasta and bread"). Like Annie said, it's food and you're eating dinner. If you have psychological food issues, there's no need to verbalize them constantly.

Ryan's complete inability to read the room just shows me that for all his alleged improvements, he's still really self-absorbed and immature. I mean, seriously, after that dinner with Annie's parents, he actually thought (1) they liked him (2) they liked the jackets he gave them (3) he didn't notice any of the tension between Annie and her mom (4) he didn't notice the non-stop food guilt trip from her mom (5) he thought that it was a good time to bring up squirting. Sometimes the stuff he says sounds like things a five year old would say.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

2.5 quotes

Fran: What's in this mystery pack?
Cashier: Rabbit jerky. It tastes like ass.
Fran: Wow, quite the salesman.

Lamar: I'm just glad you ditched the guy that was treating you like trash.
Annie: Yeah, well, it is that guy. It's the same guy.
Lamar: What? That piece of shit?
Annie: But he's really different now.
Lamar: As long as you're happy. I just think you deserve more.
Annie: I am happy. And he and I, we're actually in love so I actually think that's enough.

 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

S2.E5: Wedding

Quote

Annie goes with Fran to her cousin's traditional Nigerian wedding. Fran reconnects with her parents and has to deal with their old issues. Annie reconnects with Fran's brother Lamar and is forced to question whether Ryan is really a good match for her.

Ha, Fran and Annie buying those ridiculous hats was the perfect road trip souvenir.

I loved how assertive Fran was with her family, refusing to go along with her mother's lies about law school or talking about her in the third person while she was standing right there. I am not one of those people who thinks that children owe blind obedience to their parents simply for procreating, so when the aunt told Fran she could at least get a better job I just rolled my eyes. As long as Fran is supporting herself financially, she doesn't have to get a different job to make anyone happy. And OF COURSE when Fran told her aunt not to yell at her mother, her mom's response was to tell her to treat her aunts with respect because "I didn't raise you this way." I'm glad they finally cleared the air. I also liked that Fran's cousin told her that the reason she seemed like the good kid in the family is that her goals just happen to align with what her parents want, not because she's actually better.

I was so glad that Lamar told Annie she deserves better than Ryan. Love yourself, girl!

[ElectricBoogaloo]

2.6 quotes

Annie: I was surprised to see that tickets to this event start at $300 and I know that part of WAHAM's mission statement is lifting up every woman, but can you really do that if the price point is so inaccessible?
Justine: Um, so I've thought about this quite a bit and we offer sponsorships for low income women so they can attend free of charge. We've kind of already got that all figured out.
Annie: Would there be any way that I could possibly meet with one of the low income women who was sponsored?
Assistant: It's such a bummer. She actually couldn't make it cause she couldn't get off work.

Woman: I always felt there was something about mass market sex toys that was gross and embarrassing. Then I created my own dream vibrators that are beautiful and powerful.
Annie: Yeah, and they're $150?
Woman: You're worth it! Orgasms are self-care.

Woman: These conferences are almost exclusively how I connect with the clientele. It's helped us grow in an exponential way. And these women - they're so supportive.
Annie: Wow, and so what exactly is your business?
Woman: Makeup for your legs.
Annie: Oh.
Woman: Like to cover the gross skin on your legs.
Annie: Is that a big problem for most women?
Woman: Yeah, the biggest. I mean, for years I was suffering from disgusting leg skin.
Annie: Do people use this every day?
Woman: Yeah! Once it's part of your routine, it's totally easy. You just have to wait thirty minutes after application to put your pants on.
Annie:  Why would you put makeup on and then put pants on? Cause no one will see it.
Woman: But you'll have the confidence of a woman whose disgusting leg skin is covered up.

Guy: You're firing me because I don't like Andy? Nobody likes Andy! You suck, dude!
Amadi: Look, man, I'm firing you cause you sliced his tires and called him the anti-Christ.
Guy: He is!
Amadi: You think I don't agree with you? You think I like And?
Guy: Come on, man. I've got kids. If you fire me, I'll have to be with them all day.

Annie: It made me think that there's a reason that men don't need to be constantly told that they're powerful. It's because they're in power.
Gabe: Okay, and with women?
Annie: And women, I mean, we're like screaming in huge pink letters that we're powerful just to try and convince ourselves. And all the statistics that they gave about how bad things are for women, it's like a thousand times worse if you're a woman who can't afford to be slathered in hundred dollar oils.
Gabe: Okay, so it's a con.
Annie: Yes, but there were also all these women there who were genuinely really getting something out of it. But to me, it just felt like it was about money.
Gabe: Okay, we're getting somewhere - monetizing feminism.
Annie: Yes, exactly, and women are made to feel so insecure and then each insecurity  is like a new opportunity to make more money.
Gabe: It's sad.
Annie: Yes, and all day all they did was talk about self care but it's not taking care of yourself to agree that you're ugly and you need to be fixed.
 

Edited January 27, 2020 by ElectricBoogaloo

[ElectricBoogaloo]

S2.E6: WAHAM

Quote

Gabe finally gives Annie a meaty article to write – about a women in business convention. Initially impressed, Annie realizes that it's really a way to monetize feminism. Gabe guides her to the conclusion that society just wants to put women in boxes.

This episode was directed by Natasha Lyonne! Bonus: appearance by Delilah from American Princess!

This episode really highlighted Ryan's immaturity. I totally get that it's more fun to hang out with your boyfriend/girlfriend, but OMG dud, get a job instead of telling your girlfriend that you miss her now that she has a job again. Besides, how will he pay for anything if he doesn't work? And then his solution is to go to Annie's place of employment to get a job? Seriously, this guy hasn't got a lick of fucking sense. It's like watching a toddler stumble around.

These empowerment conferences really are just a cash cow for the people who run them. They charge a ridiculous amount of money so that you can come in and buy things from the vendors who paid the organizers for booth space. I'm all for self improvement but I agreed with Annie's assessment that they prey on women's insecurities and find a million ways that you need to be fixed (like the leg makeup!).

And OF COURSE the gazillioinaire's attempt to make the conference for rich women accessible to lower income women was to offer ONE whole sponsored spot.

I was shocked but pleasantly surprised when Gabe stopped being an ass long enough to ask Annie some good questions to help her reframe her article. That's the first time we've seen him be good at his job (or, you know, actually do his job).

Even though Annie and her mom didn't actually work through their issues, I'm glad that Annie made an effort to be honest with her and that they ended up laughing (even if it was at the expense of their clueless neighbor and her virgin son).

[ElectricBoogaloo]

2.7 quotes

Amodi: Not to brag - I've actually been to three of these things.
Annie: What?!
Amodi: Gabe realized he didn't have any black friends so he started inviting me.
Annie: Ooh. Gawd.
Amodi: That's the fun reverse racism.

Annie: I'm scared [Maureen]'s a ghost that's just haunting this place and only you and I can see her.

Fran: I want to invite everyone but also leave enough people out that it feels exclusive.

Ryan: We can't stay too long. I've got burger league tonight.
Fran: I'm sorry, did you just say burger league?
Ryan: Yeah. Whoever eats the most burgers gets a free burger. Want to come?
Fan: You know, there was a time when that question would have annoyed me and now I just feel happy for you and your bizarre and simple life.

Gabe: I'm Mother Teresa but less of a bitch.

Sheila: Gabe is truly the best at what he does. He's brilliant. But he's a narcissist so it may seem like he's helping you, but at the end of the day he's looking out for himself so you need to look out for yourself too.
 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

S2.E7: Salon

Quote

Annie receives an invite to Gabe's monthly salon. There she meets the publisher of The Thorn who is impressed with her work. Annie sees that she has been selling herself short in her work life and her love life and maybe needs to push herself further.

Ugh, again Ryan's utter cluelessness and immaturity are the worst. If you're going to fuck at work, don't be a moron and ask your girlfriend what you should do with the used condom. Anyone with half a brain knows you leave work and throw it away at a gas station, a fast food place, 7/11, a trash can on the street, etc. I've never had sex at work and duh, I know that.

I can't believe that Annie brought Ryan to Gabe's party knowing that it was a salon with artists and intellectuals and thought it would go well. She would have been better off bringing Fran who is smart and funny and capable of holding a conversation.

And Ryan constantly nagging Annie about how they had to leave the party soon because he had to go...eat burgers in the hopes of getting a free burger? If you have a conflict with your girlfriend's work event, your choices are (1) don't go to the work event (2) go to the work event and leave without her when you need to go. I am all for people having hobbies and other interests outside of work, but the stupid shit that Ryan does (pencil breaking competitions and burger league) do not get priority over a work event that could advance Annie's career. Expecting her to leave an important work event so he can eat burgers was really selfish. 

But even worse was that he told someone at work that he and Annie had sex at work. What kind of a fucking moron would do that? It's not just that it's private, as Annie said. It's that she could lose her job over it, WHICH SHE ALREADY TOLD HIM EARLIER THAT DAY. Ryan is such a hapless fuckwit that I can barely stand to see him anymore. My only hope is that this night finally makes Annie realize that she deserves MUCH better than Ryan.

Edited January 27, 2020 by ElectricBoogaloo

[ElectricBoogaloo]

2.8 quotes

Neighbor: Are you calling me a racist?
Fran: Omigawd, are you a racist? That's horrible.

Friend 1: I put alcohol in the ice cream.
Friend 2: I put weed in the weed.
 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

S2.E8: HR

Quote

Annie finally deals with the parts of her life that still challenge her—Ryan and her mom. Fran realizes she doesn't need to be dependent on relationships, she just needs to celebrate herself.

Ryan's self pity didn't make me feel bad for him at all. If you're tired of being a fuck up, STOP BEING A FUCK UP.

And this idiot that thought it was appropriate to give her a pillow at work immediately following a sexual harassment workshop that the entire company was forced to do because they had sex at the office? What kind of clueless idiot man child is he? Even worse was when he showed up at Annie's house and interrupted Fran's party. He could have just left the copy of her cover story or texted her a picture of it so that she would know about it, but he just could not accept the ONE boundary she asked of him: to give her one day to be mad and then they could talk about it the next day.

When she reminded him that she explicitly asked him to give her a day, it was all about him. "But I won't be able to sleep!" SO WHAT? Actions have consequences and one of those is that when you piss someone off, you don't get to dictate when and where the other person has to talk to you about it.

Just because you love someone doesn't mean they have to forgive you. Loving someone doesn't excuse your shitty behavior. When he told Annie she should just tell him what to do, I just rolled my eyes. Grow the fuck up, Ryan. It's not her job to teach you how to be an adult or how to be in a relationship and she certainly can't teach you common sense if you're a 30 year old man and you don't already have any.

Thank goodness Annie finally realized that she doesn't need to be with Ryan (especially after he said that he "got past" her being fat). Go be free, Annie!

I really hope Ryan quits his job because I do not need to see emo Ryan moping around the Thorn office or being a passive aggressive jerk to her.

[HappyBerry]

8 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I can't believe that Annie brought Ryan to Gabe's party knowing that it was a salon with artists and intellectuals and thought it would go well. She would have been better off bringing Fran who is smart and funny and capable of holding a conversation.

All along I knew in my heart she was going to take him....she was completely unaware of how awful he is for far too long. But, a part of me really hoped the conflict of the episode was going to be her having to explain to him why she was taking Fran to this event and not him, and him pouting about it.

[SoMuchTV]

On 1/26/2020 at 8:52 PM, Quickbeam said:

My only issue is with Aidy’s hair. It could be really pretty but always looks like a rats nest on the show. I guess it is purposeful but it bugs. 

I sort of agree, but she’s definitely not the only character on the show whose taste in hairstyles doesn’t exactly match mine!  

[MilkMachine]

I really need to go back and watch Season 1 again. Downside of binging and long breaks between seasons, even though this one wasn't as long as some.

Based on the little I remember, I think I'm feeling better about the end of this season than I was about the end of last season--although, sheesh, both are just too short.

Last year ended with her deciding to stay with Ryan (right?) and I remember feeling super confused that we were supposed to be happy with that because he was terrible.

After this season, I think I understand why she had to try having a relationship with him and why it had to end (thank God). I think it was a transitional phase and it was something Annie needed.

Annie has struggled with embracing her physical self and understanding how she fits in the world. One thing Ryan did well (after he "got over" making her climb over the back fence, ugh) was appreciate Annie's physical being. He wasn't the path to self acceptance for Annie but he certainly loved her well (in the physical sense) and provided supporting evidence that her body was good and meant to be treated reverently.

I struggled with Annie trying to fit Ryan into her world--the salon, in particular. It would have been so much easier for her to have taken Fran, who would have been way more into it anyway. At first it felt like a plot device that she took Ryan at all--but after some reflection, I think I get why she did it. I think she did it because she wants the whole package (someone who suits her both physically and intellectually) and for a hot minute, she wanted to believe that was Ryan. She tried it and it didn't work, but now she knows she's worthy of someone who fulfills all of her needs, not just some of them. So, byeeeeeeee Ryan. Don't let the door hit you.

 

[Quickbeam]

I’m playing catch up but just watched Pool. That was probably one of the best half hours I’ve ever watched on TV. Just brilliant. 

[HappyBerry]

14 hours ago, MilkMachine said:

I struggled with Annie trying to fit Ryan into her world--the salon, in particular. It would have been so much easier for her to have taken Fran, who would have been way more into it anyway. At first it felt like a plot device that she took Ryan at all--but after some reflection, I think I get why she did it. I think she did it because she wants the whole package (someone who suits her both physically and intellectually) and for a hot minute, she wanted to believe that was Ryan. She tried it and it didn't work, but now she knows she's worthy of someone who fulfills all of her needs, not just some of them. So, byeeeeeeee Ryan. Don't let the door hit you.

 

I think that this is part of why I love this show so much....it just feels very real. I think a lot of other shows would have had them break-up because he cheated on her or some huge thing that showed why he was "bad". Or it would have had her staying with him forever and eventually being glad she'd stuck with him and was able to change him. But, in this case where he did love her, he worshipped her body, supported her (even if that support was often bungled). Second season Ryan wasn't Bad, he just Wasn't Enough and I love seeing a show where that is shown as a perfectly acceptable reason to break up with someone.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

1 hour ago, HappyBerry said:

Second season Ryan wasn't Bad

I don’t know. I think announcing to the office that you had sex, pouting about being late to a burger eating event, and not respecting a clear boundary of one whole day as a cool off period all qualify as bad. 

[HappyBerry]

21 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I don’t know. I think announcing to the office that you had sex, pouting about being late to a burger eating event, and not respecting a clear boundary of one whole day as a cool off period all qualify as bad. 

Hence the bad with a capital B. He was immature and a little self-centered...even for the burger thing, he wanted to go it instead of her thing, but he wanted her there. But, he was also supporting and loved her. He wasn't cheating on her, he wasn't neglecting her, he wasn't abusive. In most tv shows, that guy either becomes the one a woman fixes with the power of love, or the guy that she bitches about to her friends over mimosas for the rest of her life while staying with him because he "has a good heart".

So, it was nice to see a break-up because he was bad, not Bad.

[MerBearStare]

I agree with you @HappyBerry. Ryan was a very shitty boyfriend, but he isn't necessarily a very shitty person. Childish, thoughtless, and someone who desperately needs to grow up, yes, but not malicious.

So often as women we're told, explicitly and implicitly, that there's nothing more important than finding a boyfriend and eventually a husband. And fat women in particular are constantly given the message, "Just take who you can get. You can't do better." So I was glad to see the season end with Annie realizing that yes, in fact, she can do better.

[chocolatine]

On 1/27/2020 at 6:10 AM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I was shocked but pleasantly surprised when Gabe stopped being an ass long enough to ask Annie some good questions to help her reframe her article. That's the first time we've seen him be good at his job (or, you know, actually do his job).

I loved seeing that and wished we had seen some of that in the first season as well. His character makes much more sense as someone who's good at his job but has a lot of quirks and a bad temper than a cartoon villain who can't do anything right.

As for the office sex, I put the blame squarely on Annie for doing it in the first place. It was extremely unprofessional, and with already being on thin ice after quitting and then begging for her job back, she can't afford any more missteps. And why would she expect Ryan to keep quiet - has he ever given her any indication that he's the discreet type? I agree that Ryan is not the right person for her, but he's never tried to pretend to be someone he isn't. It was Annie who tried to mold him into someone more suitable for her and finally came to the realization that she couldn't.

The women's conference episode was very well done. I sometimes go to "women in tech" conferences as a panelist and/or sponsor on behalf of my employer, and it's always the same BS. I would never spend my own money to attend such an event.

[The Hound Lives]

The first season hooked me, I think this season lost me.

I think Aidy Bryant is fantastic. She can carry the comedy and she can carry the drama.
The actor playing Ryan, perfectly cast. The rest? I just don’t know. I can’t stand Ruthie. Can’t stand her. She’s not funny or interesting. It’s like they try to make her that dismissive, uninterested, shallow antagonist but it’s just not fun. It’s not an effective foil for the lead. I could care less about her. 
I would watch a show a Fran and her family. She’s a total mess but she’s a controlled mess. She’s trying to figure it out and I like seeing it unfold. But one negative I have is that her acting seems off. The line delivery is sometimes so stilted. 
Amadi is another great character but we don’t get to see him enough. 
But back to Ryan. He’s a dope, we know that but I didn’t doubt how much he loved Annie. He just hasn’t grown up and she has outgrown him. The failure of that relationship doesn’t rest on his shoulders alone. He kind of reminds me of Andy Dwyer from Parks and Recreation. This lovable doofus who just doesn’t know any better. The difference is with a comedy like Parks and Recreation, that character gets rewarded time and again. On this show, he’s more of a scapegoat. He’s the mirror that the viewer is supposed to use to show how much Annie has changed. 
Gabe is a caricature. 
I guess I’m just a mixed bag. I was so excited to see the new season pop up and I was left really indifferent. I’m not clamoring for season three.
 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

6 hours ago, The Hound Lives said:

I can’t stand Ruthie. Can’t stand her. She’s not funny or interesting. It’s like they try to make her that dismissive, uninterested, shallow antagonist but it’s just not fun. It’s not an effective foil for the lead.

I feel like the show wants her to be April Ludgate 2.0 but it's just not working, mostly because the writing for her isn't very strong.

[The Hound Lives]

12 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I feel like the show wants her to be April Ludgate 2.0 but it's just not working, mostly because the writing for her isn't very strong.

Agreed! I think the season in general hasn’t been as sharp as the first. I just wasn’t as invested in Annie. I can’t say it enough, Aidy Bryant is amazing, but everything felt a bit flat. 

[DanaMB]

Didn’t enjoy season 2 as much season 1. 

[cpcathy]

I didn’t enjoy the first episode of season 2. Aidy is brilliant on SNL but seems to say all her lines the same way. The camping stuff was just yucky.

[Lisa W]

On 1/31/2020 at 3:21 PM, MerBearStare said:

I agree with you @HappyBerry. Ryan was a very shitty boyfriend, but he isn't necessarily a very shitty person. Childish, thoughtless, and someone who desperately needs to grow up, yes, but not malicious.

So often as women we're told, explicitly and implicitly, that there's nothing more important than finding a boyfriend and eventually a husband. And fat women in particular are constantly given the message, "Just take who you can get. You can't do better." So I was glad to see the season end with Annie realizing that yes, in fact, she can do better.

I actually felt a little sorry for Ryan. Yes, he was definitely a shitty boyfriend and clueless and it's so right that Annie break up with him, but he wasn't intentionally 'bad'. He was trying to evolve at least! I think that he was born with a very low emotional IQ and he was never going to get where Annie needed him to be. But although he was a bit of a dumbass he was likeable and he was trying to the best of his abilities (which admittedly were not very high.) Hopefully after this experience with his first real girlfriend he won't crawl back into a hole with his bros but get out there and keep growing.

[HappyBerry]

On 2/2/2020 at 5:35 PM, The Hound Lives said:

The difference is with a comedy like Parks and Recreation, that character gets rewarded time and again. On this show, he’s more of a scapegoat. He’s the mirror that the viewer is supposed to use to show how much Annie has changed. 

That just really helped clarify for me why I liked that so much! Andy trys to ruin Parks and Rec rewatches for me because I don't see "oveable doofus", I see man child that gets propped up by and rewarded by the strong women in his life because "he has a good heart" or is "such a good guy". It's such a common trope in television and I hate it! So, I loved this where instead of continuing to try to drag him up and instead getting dragged down in those efforts, she drops him.

[Cheezwiz]

I just binged Seasons 1 & 2, and have to say that I enjoyed both. This was like a nicer, gentler version of "Girls", and I happen to like Aidy Bryant a whole lot more than Lena Dunham.

I liked most of the side-characters, including her parents, and especially her roommate who is usually the awesome voice of reason. 

I'm hoping the break-up with Doofus Ryan will be for good this time. He was not mean-spirited, but just a clueless man-child, and when Annie attended Gabe's salon, you could see that he would be holding her back  big-time. It was clear that someone like the nice illustrator guy Annie met at the party would be a much better match for her (and he seemed to like her too).

Wow, John Cameron Mitchell excels at playing snarky narcissistic dickheads. I love that they've written him as an "I was punk before punk was cool" dude. I had no idea the Gabe character was supposedly at least in part based on Dan Savage - I find that a juicy and  hilarious tidbit.

It was fun seeing Illeana Douglas as the Thorn's publisher - haven't seen her in anything in ages!

Will definitely watch a Season 3 if there is one.

[Night Cheese]

I just finished season 2. When the new season dropped in January, I was excited that it was back and dived into the first episode. I made it 15 minutes in before I became disinterested. Now, with a lot of extra time on my hands, I attempted the season again and am happy that I did. I thought everything really picked up after episode 1 and ended up enjoying the remaining episodes.

I think what made it hard for me to get into the new season was having Annie and the boyfriend go full steam ahead from the beginning of episode 1. As others have said upthread, he's an immature man-child, and for me, it really made me dislike Annie as well as lose interest in the show. I understand why she wanted to stay with him--he's her first real boyfriend, her low self-esteem inhibits her from realizing she's awesome and she can do better, etc--but it all made it difficult to root for her because I knew he was just going to disappoint her again somehow. Needless to say, I was cheering when she finally kicked him to the curb and I hope she doesn't take him back in the next season. 

Things I really enjoyed about season 2: pretty much everything outside of Annie and the boyfriend. Fran was once again the best character, and her tall friend whose name I didn't catch was great as well. I would totally be best friends with both of them if they were real. I hope they are still a thing next season. I also liked Fran's family stuff. If it was mentioned before that she is Nigerian, I didn't remember, so the Nigerian wedding storyline was an interesting surprise. I have American friends whose parents emigrated from Nigeria, so the wedding and all the family dynamics felt very real to me. I also liked seeing Ego Nwodim outside of SNL and thought she did a great job as Fran's cousin.

[buttercupia]

I continue to love this series. Ryan is awful and I hope Annie sticks to her guns. LOVED JCM doing moonage daydream. The empowerment fest was spot on. I want to read her article!

[rejnel]

Quote

Forest Grove is AN HOUR AWAY from Portland. No one goes there.

Quote

 

It's a little less than 40 minutes. People do live there who work in Portland, and vice-versa. But the way they shot Annie's travels, they did make it seem like a Portland neighborhood. I think the whole thing was just a sweet hat-tip to Forest Grove because some scenes were shot there throughout the season. 

[LaChavalina]

I'm not sure why it took me so long to get around to watching this, because I like Lindy's writing, but I binged the whole thing this week and really enjoyed it. Aidy Bryant is great, and I actually liked season 2 better because Annie seems a little more stable--i.e., asserting herself sometimes without being rude and obnoxious. 

I was so afraid that Season 2 was leading to some big cliffhanger with Annie and her mom fighting over the abortion because Annie wrote about it in the paper. It was so nice instead to see her have that moment with her mom where she was just really supportive. That said, it did create a little bit of a double standard-- She breaks up with Ryan because he talked about their sex life, but she also wrote about the abortion in the newspaper. It would have been worth showing her having the "should I write about this" conversation with him, to underscore that she was more considerate to him than he was to her.

The other thing that gives me pause about the show is this idea that Annie is some poor, overweight, loser outcast even though she has constant access to nice things, hip people, and sex. But this is basically a truism in every show about "struggling" young adults.

Waiting for Amadi to get divorced in S3, since the character and his relationship w/Annie seems to be based on Lindy and her real-life husband...

[tennisgurl]

I am not sure why it took me so long to get to this season, but I did, and I thought it was quite good, I actually liked it better than last season. Annie seemed a lot more mature and stable, and while she can still be rather selfish, I feel like in this season she was a lot more empathetic towards others, and was generally being more supportive and made better choices. While I dont think Ryan is really a bad person, and he did make some efforts this season to be a better boyfriend to Annie, he is still so immature and in such a different place than Annie, and like she said, while she is growing up, she still has to be a mom to him, breaking up with him was really for the best. By the end, it was clear that Annie was with him at least partially because it was comfortable and because her low self esteem told her that she could never do better, I am glad that she seemed to realize that. 

Knowing that Gabe is based on Dan Savage will never stop being hilarious to me. 

I still really love Fran and would happily watch a show where she was the star. The wedding episode was my favorite episode of the season. 

Edited May 12, 2020 by tennisgurl

[Door County Cherry]

1 hour ago, tennisgurl said:

Knowing that Gabe is based on Dan Harmon will never stop being hilarious to me. 

I think you mean Dan Savage. 

[tennisgurl]

3 minutes ago, Door County Cherry said:

I think you mean Dan Savage. 

Yes you are very right, very wrong Dan! Whoops thats who I meant! 

[txhorns79]

On 3/19/2019 at 2:19 PM, gesundheit said:

Yeah, Gabe is a prick to be sure, but Annie is a TERRIBLE employee. I found it so unrealistic that he didn't fire her. Pretty much a fire-able offense every episode. 

I just binged the first season and this made me crazy.  I don't think your employer can really mandate you go on a 10 mile bike ride, and Gabe's weird aggression over Annie's weight was just wrong.  However,  Annie is kind of awful as an employee.  What really got me was that she seemed not to really understand that it was wrong of her to post a non-approved story to the website.  Her explanations to Gabe were absurd, and that she was arguing over this at all left me waiting for the moment where she would be fired.  

I liked Julia Sweeney in this a lot.  You can see that she very much cares about her daughter, but really is trapped in the pattern of trying to fix her daughter that appears to be left over from childhood.   

 

[possibilities]

Annie told Rusty that their sex life is private and that's why he shouldn't tell anyone about it, but that was not the real reason.

Lamar told people about their hook up and they actually talked to her about it, and she wasn't pissed off at Lamar for telling. It was a little uncomfortable for her, but she was not angry about it, and she enjoyed sitting with him later and still felt drawn to him. Also, the women talk about their sex lives in the friend group all the time.

The real problem was that Rusty had bad judgment about the workplace and also Annie is uncomfortable with and does not trust his friends. Those are valid reasons, but Annie was still not being totally honest with herself or him when she was discussing it with Rusty.

[peachmangosteen]

His name is Ryan but man if I am not rolling over the use of Rusty lol.

I had watched half of the first ep of this back when it first premiered but I just didn’t keep up with it. I binged the whole thing over the past 2 days.

I liked all the secondary and even more so the tertiary characters more than the leads really but I enjoyed them all and the show in general. I’m not really clamoring for another season though honestly.

[love2lovebadtv]

On 1/26/2020 at 8:23 AM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

2.1 quotes

Fran: Fran's hanging because your dad called me and didn't know where you were and we thought you were murdered, but thank God you're alive and just inconsiderate.

Fran: You can't just disappear and leave me to clear up all your mess. You have to be my friend too.

Fran is such a good friend. 

On 1/26/2020 at 8:56 AM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

S2.E1: Camp

Part of me is glad that Ryan was so excited about Annie quitting her job and confronting her troll. The other part of me was just going ugh every time he did, well, anything.

One very accurate portrayal on the show is how hypocritical people can be about the way they treat people. Annie's dad was so mad that she hadn't called him back but when his own wife, who left the country and only wrote a short note to say she was going to Vancouver, finally called him he was all sunshine and unicorns with her.

Yes, I found the hypocrisy to be so accurate! I also figured maybe the dad was scared to rock the boat with his caretaker - what a realistic portrayal of illness putting you in that precarious situation and wanting to give his wife a break because of it. 

On 8/31/2020 at 3:10 AM, possibilities said:

Annie told Rusty that their sex life is private and that's why he shouldn't tell anyone about it, but that was not the real reason.

Lamar told people about their hook up and they actually talked to her about it, and she wasn't pissed off at Lamar for telling. It was a little uncomfortable for her, but she was not angry about it, and she enjoyed sitting with him later and still felt drawn to him. Also, the women talk about their sex lives in the friend group all the time.

The real problem was that Rusty had bad judgment about the workplace and also Annie is uncomfortable with and does not trust his friends. Those are valid reasons, but Annie was still not being totally honest with herself or him when she was discussing it with Rusty.

Yes! The friend group definitely talks about their sex lives all the time. Emphasis on friend group - not coworker on a job Rusty (I like this name for him) just started and where Annie is trying to get back on track. Getting them (especially Annie) in trouble at work if a coworker blabbed didn't even occur to him. 

I think it would have been more accurate to tell Rusty he shouldn't tell coworkers about their sex life. But Rusty has such poor judgment and has has an equally immature circle of friends that she's better off telling him their sex life is private and not to discuss with people. His outburst at the meeting shows just how clueless he is.

[lasu]

Even though I really like Annie, she wasn't fully in the right in that last fight with Ryan.  She wanted him to go to something when he had other plans, and made it seem like they could just stop in when that really wasn't the case.  While I personally agree her event was important and his was dumb, you don't get to unilaterally decide your plans take precident over your partner's no matter the silliness, and I think she felt justified trying to railroad him.  If you don't want a guy who makes stupid plans, don't date a guy YOU KNOW MAKES STUPID PLANS.  It just didn't actually seem fair to me (even though in real life I kinda agree with her).

[ElectricBoogaloo]

S3 begins on May 7th - no sign of Ryan in the trailer so woo hoo!

 

[Quickbeam]

I am really tired of the expression “very cool” on this show. It just comes out so awkward no matter who says it.

[SoMuchTV]

1 minute ago, Quickbeam said:

I am really tired of the expression “very cool” on this show. It just comes out so awkward no matter who says it.

Isn’t “awkward” kind of a main theme of the show, though?  Although I didn’t really pick up on that. I’ll have to pay attention in the next season, I guess. 

[Quickbeam]

Just now, SoMuchTV said:

Isn’t “awkward” kind of a main theme of the show, though?  Although I didn’t really pick up on that. I’ll have to pay attention in the next season, I guess. 

I keep thinking they mean it and it hits my ear really wrong. 

[possibilities]

I'm interested in opinions anyone might have, about whether or not what she did in the last episode of S3

 

by going to see dude's ex at the bakery

was as unforgivable as what's his name reacted as though it was.

 

I honestly didn't think it had to be that big of a dealbreaker, and I found his freak out and frankly anger about it to be somewhat suspicious. I get that it would have been better to talk to him about her insecurities and ask him more about his past relationship and what was going on there, but if I found out an ex's new squeeze had checked me out, I wouldn't be upset about it and so I don't see this as an unforgivable horror.

 

Earlier in the season, I thought it was interesting how they handled the plot about Annie's article about

 

the white supremacist separatist terrorists 

and the fallout from that. I thought it was interesting that they decided to show

 

(1) her friends weren't going to take care of her or get her off the hook for her errors, (2) they also didn't ditch her as a friend, (3) the effect of being "canceled" was negligible on both her personal life and her career, other than her angst about it -- despite the popular condemnation of "cancel culture" the "canceled" person was really not that bad off from being "canceled"-- real problem was not that she was "canceled", but how her actions hurt others, (4) her remorse and the "cancelling" does not in any way mitigate the harm done by giving a platform to the supremacists, nor did it disincentivize her bosses from repeating a similar mistake in future-- the fact that her bosses actually profited off and were happy about the situation and didn't care at all about the fuck up shows it will be an uphill battle to stop them, (5) they didn't give any easy answers for what she could do to fix it-- essentially some things can't be taken back or undone, and the harm happens regardless of your motives and you and everybody else has to live with that. Most shows would try to wrap it up in a heroic resolution and this one didn't.

Edited May 9, 2021 by possibilities