S02.E16: Adverse Events

[Bort]

Quote

The surgeons are determined to shut down Quovadis after Henry Barnett almost loses his life due to a device malfunction. As Mina and Devon set out to find the truth, Bell, AJ and Conrad work to save the life of Chastain's favorite custodian, Simon. Meanwhile, one of Alec's old patients ends up in the ER, forcing him to question if he made the right choice to leave his old practice for Nic's clinic.

Airdate: Monday, March 4, 2019

[KittenPokerCheater]

I really liked this episode.  I love it when they "Storm the Castle."

And I really felt for Bell.  

/sniffle

[jewel21]

The scene where Bell cleans up the surgery room was so sad. I like when they show him having a heart. 

So if the investigator Conrad's dad hired was able to get the pics that Julien had taken showing the Chinese items being placed in Quovadis boxes 'labeled made in the USA,' does that mean she's still alive?

[Jlina]

Julia's pictures probably equals Julia. Hmm......odd Conrad forgot she existed and didn't ask.

  Yeah!!  The mother of child romance is done for. Over. Never to spark again.  Nic's guilty flushed cheeks was an amazing example of Van Camp's acting abilities.  She's underated.  Not sure she has any reason to look elsewhere though.  Unless she hates intensity and passion?  Lol.  That's Conrad.  He always gets to run down the halls too!

They are doing amazing things rehabbing Bell's image.  Too bad the shaky hands thing can't be hand waved away.  Oh, but it has been.  The janitor guy was so cool, but I knew someone was dying soon on this show.  It was very poignant.

Conrad's Daddy issues will be front and center soon, though, and will most likely wreak havoc on him, them and lots of things.  I hope they explain the dreams.

[Zoe]

Kevin's dad 😞 

[Jlina]

*Julian

[Brookside]

I realized this episode why I don't like (the actor playing) Conrad.  He talks like a ventriloquist, as if he's trying not to move his mouth.  Add the monotonous tone of voice, and Bob's your Uncle.

[Zoe]

2 minutes ago, Jlina said:

Too bad the shaky hands thing can't be hand waved away.  Oh, but it has been. 

The yips tend to be psychological, so it's not too big of a stretch for it to be "fixed".

[Mellowyellow]

Bell mopping up the surgery broke my heart. I never thought I'd say that about Bell but they do give him so many layers and it was well within character despite the fact that he is Bell.

I may have mouthed "Noooooooooooooooo" when Marshall turned at the end of the episode!!!!!!! It will make for an interesting plot but I was really rooting for them to be a happy father and son pairing! 

That scene with Alec and Nic was very awkward in a well executed, deliberate way. Let's hope they handle it well like the did the first triangle. No train wrecks please!

[DFWGina]

I like that he had a separate reason for bringing down Quovadis.  I think he knows if he can do it "right" - it really can be successful and he can buy out the shady guy and the shady guy practices/policies and make it a respectable money making company....  I don't see this as him being "bad" or turning....  I see it as very in his character to see it from a financial standpoint.

[Rap541]

1 hour ago, Mellowyellow said:

I may have mouthed "Noooooooooooooooo" when Marshall turned at the end of the episode!!!!!!! It will make for an interesting plot but I was really rooting for them to be a happy father and son pairing! 

I really didn't see this as a heel turn. It's been established that this is what Marshall does - this was exactly what Conrad *thought* he would do to Chastain and boy do I have a feeling that Marshall will point that out when Conrad goes ragey on him. 

The insights into Bell were interesting but I don't like the rewrite over his surgical flaws. In the first season it was generally accepted that he was a menace in surgery and that he was killing patients and also was a cold monster who barely had a conscience and merrily destroyed careers and lives. Now he's just about weeping as he admits he got the hospital into bed with Qu Vadis and a child nearly died, OMG. It's a little jarring.

Don't care about Dr. "I Live To Help The Poor" so I hope Nic moves on quickly. I also was long tired of Mom With Tragic Kids and to be honest, I really can't blame her for taking a really sweet deal considering the nature of Tragic Kid #1's health woes.

As someone who had gall problems, on the one hand the actual pain from the gall stone attack was far worse than the surgery. But... I had pretty good insurance and there was about a two month gap from when the doctor said "Yeah, we solve this problem by removing the vice president of organs" and the actual surgery and the time between wasn't a lengthy montage of me screaming in pain. I did get the admonishment to not eat a high fat diet while waiting but trust me, you back away from the bacon a little when you worry that eating it will make you feel like your right side is exploding. My point? Unless you're running a fever, it's not considered emergency surgery even if you have insurance so I didn't see this as some sort of unrealistic or awful display of how the uninsured get screwed. 

[cathmed]

I'm not sure that I like this changed "new" Bell - pious, redemptive, learning (from Simon) that perhaps he used to be like Conrad, e.g., a maverick, challenging the system/status quo, etc.   The entire point of Bell's character should still align with who he is e.g., arrogant, treacherous, egotistical and a duplicitous villain (in addition to being HODAD) and now he's become Mr. Do The right Thing Nice Guy?   1 - I mean seriously, I can't imagine Bell ever taking time to really be friends with the janitor; others, yes but Bell no.   I thought maybe something more would have been revealed of their relationship, i.e., an uncle, man who lived in their neighborhood growing up, helped to shape Bell, etc., but it just seemed trite he'd be that close to Simon and so broken up about him dying.   The tribute was a nice touch but again, just seemed so out of character for Bell.   And 2 - Bell was more interesting when most were keeping him on his toes.

Now, the storyline has shifted for everyone to take down Page.   Dr. Benedict is expendable and I'm sure will meet with an unfortunate accident (later shown in upcoming previews).  But Page isn't done yet and a few will feel his rath.  Although I was glad to see Marshall return--and thought some type of harm would be done to him as he was driven away--I was a little surprised to see that Marshall is just a ruthless, unscrupulous, corrupt bastard - WOW!!  And I feel for Conrad - just when you thought those two had finally mended fences.     Anyone else think  Marshall's holding Julian captive?   His "investigators" got the info that she saw int he warehouse - coincidence?  I think not!

Silly Zoe - trusting wrong people regardless of the money.   Won't be seeing her for a while and hope they've squashed any romantic entanglement with Conrad.

The Alec/Nic storyline is tired, unnecessary and obvious.   To try to blatantly move on her when he clearly knows she and Conrad are together, it's just a wasted storyline.. 

[Gregg247]

I love the changes they're doing with Dr. Bell's character this season!  Last year, he was a mustache-twirling cardboard villain.  This season, he's an egotistical beaurocrat who, in the end, recognizes that he needs to do the right thing.  That makes him a really interesting character to watch.  Maybe he'll side with the "good guys" right away, maybe he won't.   Nice.

My other favorite character is Conrad's father, for the same reasons.  I think he's a nicer guy than Dr. Bell (more humble, less flashy) but more ruthless in business.  Again, will he side with the "good guys" or not?

The Quovardis CEO is so evil and slimy that I can't wait for him to be taken down.  The actor who plays him was also Sherlock's loathsome heroin pal, and I hated him there, too.  This guy is a pretty good actor.  I look forward to seeing him play some doofus dad on a sitcom; I'll bet he'd be good at that, too.

[twoods]

Damn it Marshall. I hope he’s pretending to help Gordon and then bankrupt the company from within. 

Really brazen of new doc hitting on Nic when he knows she’s dating Conrad. 

I am definitely loving Bell this season. He wanted Quovadis to no longer be at the hospital regardless of how much he would lose, and then cleaning the OR made me teary eyed.

[CarpeFelis]

2 hours ago, twoods said:

Damn it Marshall. I hope he’s pretending to help Gordon and then bankrupt the company from within.

At first I was taken aback but this was my next thought. I hope he’s planning to screw Gordon over but good - and end up making a mint in the process.

[Mellowyellow]

I find Bell's character development this season to be realistic enough.

He was certainly villainous in S1 but he did have the rare moment of being human. Yes there was usually something in it for him but I always find myself wondering what is the truth with his character. He was (is?) the HODAD but they also showed him as having a lot of knowledge in some of the past episodes that the younguns could learn from. 

I feel like the turning point for him was Lane and when he took over the running of the hospital. Besides trying to cover his ass in the Lane situation I got the impression he was genuinely horrified that she killed people for money. I also think he's been exposed to the do gooder younguns often, they harp at him constantly and working with them has somewhat softened him as has his friendship with Kit. 

After he started running the hospital, his ego in regards to his abilities as a surgeon went down because he now had a new path and purpose.

The janitor friendship is realistic because Bell was young once and this was someone from his past.

All in all I can see why he's become the Bell we got in this episode. He did get into bed with Quovadis for money but after helping start the kid's heart multiple times in that room with Nic, I can buy that it had an impact on Bell. He has always been a bastard but a complicated one.

Lol I just wrote an entire post on that man!

***

I hope you guys are right about your Marshall theory!!! I loved it when he paid off the guy who sued Conrad so I am hoping for something from him that is shady to get rid of Quovadis but not evil!

[preeya]

19 minutes ago, CarpeFelis said:

At first I was taken aback but this was my next thought. I hope he’s planning to screw Gordon over but good - and end up making a mint in the process.

This was my take on the situation. Gordon is a fraud that should be in prison, or worse. I'm thinking Marshal will takeover QV and it'll be a windfall for the good guys.

[Unraveled]

This was an action packed episode!

I don't quite get it. So in the mega surgery with the multiple Veterans... Were they trying to cure PTSD or was it just a possible use? Because the thought of implanting something to cure PTSD doesn't seem particularly realistic in current or near future medicine.

[preeya]

4 minutes ago, Unraveled said:

I don't quite get it. So in the mega surgery with the multiple Veterans... Were they trying to cure PTSD or was it just a possible use? Because the thought of implanting something to cure PTSD doesn't seem particularly realistic in current or near future medicine.

 

The way I understood it was that Gordon/QV gave the military some bogus bullshit that the QV implant would cure PTSD. It was all based on their bullshit presentation with no approvals or test data to back it up. The military was all in until they were told the hardware was not made in the USA but was imported from China and re-labeled to look like it was American.

[alexvillage]

Sooooo

i see that we moved from drama to SCI-FI now.

the writers don’t have a clue about VNS or what it does, so they go all futuristic impossibilities. No, VNS will never be able to treat PTSD. VNS stimulates neurons, it is like cranking the neurons. PTSD is a complexities of issues, none of them purely physical, definitely not linked to how neurons connect in the brain. 

they could at least said TBI which does include physical hurt of the brain(would still be way off the mark) but nooooo. They had to be totally clueless

Conrad is a resident but he acts like he is the top attendand at the hospital. He is also the only resident in the history of ever that is never tired and has time to save the world between “critical” patients. I would like to see the mortality rate under his care, please.

I am still looking for the why MC is a lead in this show. He is terrible. Monotone comes to mind when I hear him.

Edited March 6, 2019 by alexvillage

[CarpeFelis]

No sci-fi involved, just Gordon Page trying to make big bucks off the military with a bogus treatment.

[Rap541]

While it wasn't scifi, it was just so ridiculous and stupid that even non medical people have some idea that it's a ridiculous idea that anyone with medical knowledge should be openly questioning. Even if everything I know about VNS was learned on the show, that's still enough to know that a device that stops epileptic seizures (maybe) is not going to treat Post Traumatic Stress Disorder, a mostly psychological disorder. Everyone involved should have been asking a fuckload of questions on how this was supposed to work. To where it was a glaring problem in making the show seem real or realish. I mean, I don't mind the mental disconnect needed to allow for a hospital with what amounts to an ongoing soap opera being played out, I watched twelve seasons of ER for god's sake but they never did anything this moronic. AND they had the head surgeon loose his arm in a helicopter accident and then later die in an entirely separate helicopter accident. I mean, I WANT TO BELIEVE, DAMN IT! And this show isn't even trying. 

[twoods]

There are actual studies showing promise that VNS can decrease some anxiety symptoms in PTSD, so it is plausible that the corrupt medical device company would fake data to make this a reality. There is so much fake medicine on this show, but this storyline is somewhat realistic.

Mom moving to Duke means she no longer is going to moon after Conrad, right? Thank goodness!

[MsTree]

On 3/4/2019 at 9:14 PM, Brookside said:

Bob's your Uncle.

What does that ^ mean?

Edited March 6, 2019 by MsTree

[Brookside]

3 hours ago, MsTree said:

What does that ^ mean?

"Bob's your Uncle" means "There you have it", "Voila".

[alexvillage]

6 hours ago, twoods said:

There are actual studies showing promise that VNS can decrease some anxiety symptoms in PTSD, so it is plausible that the corrupt medical device company would fake data to make this a reality. There is so much fake medicine on this show, but this storyline is somewhat realistic.

If there is such study I would love to see where it is coming from. I live with someone who has had the implant for years, and also has anxiety, and never heard of such thing from any neurologist, or anyone really. Cannabis is used for anxiety too, but since using something that it is basically free - in states where you can grow a few plants for personal use, for example - corporations come up with "studies" to get money flowing and rights to a patent. 

As Rap541 said, anyone would at least question the link, and having 100 surgeries and doctors just being pawns to a non-medical business guy is pathetic. 

[driver18]

I took a different take from the Nic scene with that guy who I can't be bothered to remember his name. I really liked it. She completely avoided addressing it because she wanted to keep things as light as could be and got her ass out of there as quickly as possible because it was just the two of them. She was *uncomfortable* and in a situation that she wasn't expecting with this guy. She didn't look flattered or enticed by the possibility but bothered. She thought they had a good working relationship. She thought they were a good team. She knew that HE knew she had a boyfriend, and then here he was presuming that not only he, but SHE felt like there was something more. And again she felt uncomfortable.

I hope I read that right because if so, it looks like she could be an interesting road the rest of this story travels.

Edited March 6, 2019 by driver18

[Rap541]

I agree that Nic felt uncomfortable in that scene but I suspect it leads to this. Conrad is now free of Henry's mom and resumes his endless love for Nic. He somehow catches Dr. Perfect putting a move on Nic, maybe touching her or kissing her, and immediately assumes the worst. And of course, misses the part where Nic slaps the guy and screams "NOTHING GIVES YOU THE RIGHT TO TOUCH ME!". Nic goes to Conrad for support, he notes how devastated he is by her slutty cheating ways and we end season two with these two glaring. 

And Dr. Bell meanwhile scores with the orthopedic surgeon after being declared a hero in the Quo Vadis scandal...

[twoods]

9 hours ago, alexvillage said:

If there is such study I would love to see where it is coming from. I live with someone who has had the implant for years, and also has anxiety, and never heard of such thing from any neurologist, or anyone really. Cannabis is used for anxiety too, but since using something that it is basically free - in states where you can grow a few plants for personal use, for example - corporations come up with "studies" to get money flowing and rights to a patent. 

As Rap541 said, anyone would at least question the link, and having 100 surgeries and doctors just being pawns to a non-medical business guy is pathetic. 

Neurologists and psychiatrists won’t go to it because it is still being studied and experimental, which means insurance companies won’t pay for it. Below are studies done recently that has promise on pain management and symptoms.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/02/190213142700.htm

Studies done in 2017 and 2018:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/medicalxpress.com/news/2017-10-vagus-nerve-therapy-ptsd-symptoms.amp

https://www.futuremedicine.com/doi/full/10.2217/bem-2018-0002

[alexvillage]

57 minutes ago, twoods said:

Neurologists and psychiatrists won’t go to it because it is still being studied and experimental, which means insurance companies won’t pay for it. Below are studies done recently that has promise on pain management and symptoms.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/02/190213142700.htm

Studies done in 2017 and 2018:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/medicalxpress.com/news/2017-10-vagus-nerve-therapy-ptsd-symptoms.amp

https://www.futuremedicine.com/doi/full/10.2217/bem-2018-0002

Interesting. I hope it is something that is being carefully studies. The first link seems to be the one they are actually working with humans. And they are starting - wisely, because the implant is not really reversible - with external stimulation.

I need to research the other two, who they are exactly. My problem with this type of tests in rats, is that the human brain is much more complex. It is a little bit like some researches into autism that found out some rats got temporarily "cured" which is an absurd idea - to cure autism one needs a whole new brain - but the researchers admitted they could not reproduce the test in humans. 

But thanks for the information, I had never heard of this.

[Jlina]

I had a tennant who had the implant like 20 years ago.  I was aware they were studying it for depression.  I think this show, unlike say, Scorpion, has it's drama based pretty firmly I headline news 🙂

I agree Nic acted it perfectly but....I think there's going to be something mutual.  SMH

[Rap541]

I'm also going to question the marketing plan of "Lets simulcast a bunch of surgeries to make this look cool". I mean, please don't tell me that's an actual thing because that just seems exploitive to the patients.

[Emily Thrace]

On 3/5/2019 at 5:49 PM, CarpeFelis said:

At first I was taken aback but this was my next thought. I hope he’s planning to screw Gordon over but good - and end up making a mint in the process.

Yeah if he's been buying hospitals then owning a medical device company makes a lot of sense. I'm there is money in making devices that work and are of good quality. It sounded like Quovadis actually had good people on the idea side of things if Marshall can harness that side of things he might do well.

[Norma Desmond]

On 3/5/2019 at 2:13 AM, Jlina said:

They are doing amazing things rehabbing Bell's image.  Too bad the shaky hands thing can't be hand waved away.  Oh, but it has been.

Yup. They did a total 180 on his character. Not that I'm complaining. I love him.

[Paloma]

On 3/5/2019 at 10:12 AM, Rap541 said:

As someone who had gall problems, on the one hand the actual pain from the gall stone attack was far worse than the surgery. But... I had pretty good insurance and there was about a two month gap from when the doctor said "Yeah, we solve this problem by removing the vice president of organs" and the actual surgery and the time between wasn't a lengthy montage of me screaming in pain. I did get the admonishment to not eat a high fat diet while waiting but trust me, you back away from the bacon a little when you worry that eating it will make you feel like your right side is exploding. My point? Unless you're running a fever, it's not considered emergency surgery even if you have insurance so I didn't see this as some sort of unrealistic or awful display of how the uninsured get screwed. 

Your experience with gallstones and gall bladder surgery is probably more common, but my husband recently had a very different experience. We were on vacation in Hawaii and both got Covid. I recovered in about a week but he still had a fever (not very high, and assumed to be due to Covid). Since he is 76 and has a heart condition (controlled by meds), he went to Urgent Care to be sure it wasn't serious. They did some tests and found that his gallbladder was in terrible condition, and they said he had to have emergency surgery that couldn't wait until we got home (on the East Coast) a few days later. The doctors were amazed that he had not been in terrible pain., especially after the surgery when the surgeon said the gallbladder was the worst he'd seen and was partially necrotic.