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S04.E07: The Side Effect

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Kady goes to the flea market. What's Zelda been up to? This one's about Fen, you guys.

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Original air date: 3/6/19

Edited by ElectricBoogaloo

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Penny got a promotion! It sounds terrible though.

I loved how some of the librarians were totally fine with the idea of killing Alice but the thought of reading her book had them clutching her pearls. Great priorities, guys.

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Loved the 'side-kick' episode, and showing how important they are.

Kady, turning charm cufflinks into Aliester Crowley's ashes was great!  She definitely has a calling in trade.  And being a detective.  Girl has mad skillz.

I knew what a Bag of Holding was!!  That doll was creepy.  I hope that was for a year's rent.

Fen's side quest looks interesting too, finding out why she's having prophetic dreams, and how to get the rest of the animals talking again (or at least Margo's birthright box lizard).

And Zelda, trying to find out if her daughter is really still alive, and working with Alice.  I did love Dean Fogg giving Z a 'your problem, you deal with it' line.

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27 minutes ago, Hanahope said:

I did love Dean Fogg giving Z a 'your problem, you deal with it' line.

Yeah I lol'd at that. I love snarky Fogg.

So this episode was basically setting up all the pieces for the "side" players. There was some interesting stuff. Fen and her dreams, Penny now in the secrets room, and I hope we do learn what happened to Harriet. Not really much else to say, I did like seeing Pete again and laughed at him calling Kady Mariska Hargitay. Wonder why the beets don't work on the 'scaly shit'. 

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It's a literal travesty that more people don't watch this show, I'm convinced it's the best thing on TV right now.

Loved seeing what Kady, Fen and Zelda got up to. It's honestly amazing that they got me to care about a Librarian. Kady's revolution seguing into that so neatly was well done, along with Alice's story.

Not sure what to make of Fen's dreams, but I'm sure it'll be something amazing as well.

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8 minutes ago, Diapason Untuned said:

It's a literal travesty that more people don't watch this show, I'm convinced it's the best thing on TV right now.

Truth. I'm always pimping it to anyone I can. It's my favorite show.

I do have something else to say. I love Fen. Over the seasons she has become one of my favorite characters and she's right up there by Margo's side as the funniest character on the show. I ❤️ her. I would love to see her and Margo develop a closer bond. Those two together could be a formidable force. 

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THAT, people? THAT is how you do a show. Wow. Good gawd this show is the tits.

Any guesses who Penny is seeing in the elevator? I literally threw a towel at the TV I was so... ARRRRRRGHHHH!! Want next week NOW!!!

Am I the only one who swears every year to binge the show, but breaks down the second there's a new episode?

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Yeah, well, err, damn show. Just when I think you can't get any better you go and pull and episode like this out of your pocket. Since I happen to be one of those who thinks Kady's storyline gets short shrifted most of the time, I absolutely loved every single scene with her in it, particularly with Pete, who's been greatly missed since season one. I got a kick out him still having a thing for Julia after all this time.  Kady becoming the leader of the Hedge witches was great as well.

Fen is also one of my favorite characters and it was great to see her come into her own, with some help from Josh. Speaking of which, I continue to ship Josh and Margo...hard. Their bitchiness in the middle of yet another crisis was just...neat.

While I don't love Alice, I thought her brief scene with Fogg and Zelda was pretty interesting. The fact that she's still managed to elude the entire Library shows just how clever she is. Granted, they also have an uprising of Hedge Witches (led by a seriously pissed off Kady) to deal with.

Loved, loved, loved the whole bit with Penny 40 and his "subordinate" in the library. That's how you frame an episode btw. Seriously, the writing on this show rivals anything that HBO is putting out right now.

Edited by Philbert
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On 3/7/2019 at 8:04 AM, daisycat said:

THAT, people? THAT is how you do a show. Wow. Good gawd this show is the tits.

Any guesses who Penny is seeing in the elevator? I literally threw a towel at the TV I was so... ARRRRRRGHHHH!! Want next week NOW!!!

Am I the only one who swears every year to binge the show, but breaks down the second there's a new episode?

No, no you're not, daisycat. I compromise by bingeing the entire series at some point after the season has run. 

Snort! "You have a case of white male protagonism." Though I have to say, when I hear the phrase 'great destiny ' I don't think of a job as a bureaucrat. 

I loved looking at the other characters too. I love Kady and Fen. The Library is living up to the idea of unintended consequences and large institutions. I adore this show. It really is so smart and heartfelt. 

Edited by AuntieMame
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1 hour ago, daisycat said:

Am I the only one who swears every year to binge the show, but breaks down the second there's a new episode?

This is the only show I watch as "appointment TV".  Everything else,  I stream on demand when I have time.

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I was a little confused in the beginning because Derek (Penny's supervisor's supervisor) said he had read both Alice and Quentin's books, and recounted what was happening to them in the last episode. But . . . later in the episode, Zelda said Alice's book was still in the revision room. Alice also put a spell on it (or swapped it out) so that the Librarians wouldn't know where she was. So how was Derek able to know what she was up to after she escaped from the library?

On another note: Kady never shared any scenes with Pete back in Season 1 so I was a little confused how she recognized him on sight. Pete was the character who introduced Julia to Marina, and all of his scenes were with those characters. I remembered that Kady was working for Marina so I suppose she met Pete through her but it felt like a bit of a cheat since they'd never met before on-screen.

I'm assuming the "Babayaga" is a take-off on the Babadook. Was Marina paying rent to the Babayaga? Because back in Episode 2 she said she "worked really hard to steal" that apartment. Maybe she stole it from a previous tenant? And the Babayaga doesn't care who lives there as long as they pay the rent? Marina did say the apartment was more trouble than it was worth.

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Snort! "You have a case of white male protagonism."

And I loved loved loved that Eliot and Quentin (the white male "protagonists"!) were entirely absent from the episode. A nice little nuance there.

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45 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

I'm assuming the "Babayaga" is a take-off on the Babadook. Was Marina paying rent to the Babayaga? Because back in Episode 2 she said she "worked really hard to steal" that apartment. Maybe she stole it from a previous tenant? And the Babayaga doesn't care who lives there as long as they pay the rent? Marina did say the apartment was more trouble than it was worth.

The Baba Yaga is different from the Babadook. 

I’m guessing one of the reasons that Marina worked so hard to steal that particular apartment is because of the protection provided by the Baba Yaga (who only seems to care that the rent is paid regardless of who is actually paying - can’t say I blame her for that).

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1 hour ago, daisycat said:

And I loved loved loved that Eliot and Quentin (the white male "protagonists"!) were entirely absent from the episode. A nice little nuance there.

Quentin was there for a hot second but I loved that he immediately left to go look through the books in Marina's room like the side character that he is, lol. 

Edited by festivus
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2 hours ago, daisycat said:

And I loved loved loved that Eliot and Quentin (the white male "protagonists"!) were entirely absent from the episode. A nice little nuance there.

That was great! I admit to missing the super dramatic Q/Elliot/Monster love triangle, but this was such a great episode, I hardly even noticed they hadn't shown up except for a second, I was so engaged. This show is so smartly written, its tragic that I know it will never get any major award love from the Globes or the Emmys. Its right up there in quality with any of the gritty HBO shows, in fact I would say its better than many of them. Its just so creative in its world building and story telling!

Loved using this episode to both move Penny's story along at last, and to use him as a framing device to show what all the supporting cast has been up to, and see all of the exciting things happening that are inevitably going to all come to a head. Loved seeing Kady, Fen, and Zelda and their stories, I am such a sucker for "here is what was going on in the background" style stories with supporting characters, but unlike a lot of those stories, its not really played for laughs or exists to give the main cast a break, they are all doing important stuff that will certainly have a big impact on the larger story. We even got more time with even really minor characters, like Pete, the animal guy from Fillory, the British librarian who broke the mirror last season, etc. 

I think my favorite story was Zeldas, its so interesting seeing how the Library functions from the inside, and how you can see how some of them do have good intentions, especially Zelda, but in practice its doing some really horrible things and more of them seem to be going power hungry, and it seems like it will just get worse. The mirror world was so creepy, I loved it and wanted to leave as soon as possible. But I love all of them. Kady and her quest to unite the hedges, including the sketchy magic farmers market, and Fen and her prophetic dreams and souffle saving were so entertaining, and I love their characters so much, and its great seeing more of them. I was just wondering last week was Kady was up to, and here we are!

The twist with the guy being Penny's boss was great, and now Penny is getting a terrifying promotion! Who does he see?! Tell me now damn it?!? "We really did think all the stories were about white guys back then." 

Margo and Josh are so bitchy and petty in a crisis, but are still trying to get stuff done, its hilarious. Its kind of funny, of all of the main cast, the only one who really fits the typical "white heterosexual cis male" label is Josh, who is the least focused on! 

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3 hours ago, iMonrey said:

On another note: Kady never shared any scenes with Pete back in Season 1 so I was a little confused how she recognized him on sight. Pete was the character who introduced Julia to Marina, and all of his scenes were with those characters. I remembered that Kady was working for Marina so I suppose she met Pete through her but it felt like a bit of a cheat since they'd never met before on-screen.

Actually there was a scene they shared in Season 1. Kady meets with he and Marina in a car outside Brakebills to give them something she stole on Marina's orders. 

Also, Fen and her prophetic dreams... I think the source might be the Fairy Queen. IIRC, didn't she whisper something in Fen's ear right before she went off to her death? I really love this show!

Edited by Maxyrama
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2 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

The Baba Yaga is different from the Babadook. 

Ok, now I have to wonder why the Magicians is the first tv show to include a Baba Yaga, and not Supernatural or Grimm?  I mean, it seems obvious.

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23 minutes ago, Maxyrama said:

Also, Fen and her prophetic dreams... I think the source might be the Fairy Queen. IIRC, didn't she whisper something in Fen's ear right before she went off to her death? I really love this show!

Oh shit! I forgot about that, I'll bet you're right.

6 hours ago, daisycat said:

Any guesses who Penny is seeing in the elevator? I literally threw a towel at the TV I was so... ARRRRRRGHHHH!! Want next week NOW!!!

I hate to speculate on this show because I'm never right! I'll just guess Victoria. The mirror people got her. ETA: Maybe they haven't got Harriet yet since it's the mirror library world and she'd know how to hide/avoid. Also remember: I'm never right. 😄

I know. As much as I hate waiting every week I could never wait until this show comes to Netflix so I can binge. I look at it this way; at least it gives me a week to think about it and watch the episode again. Also to comb the boards for everyone else's theories.

Edited by festivus
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3 hours ago, Hanahope said:

Ok, now I have to wonder why the Magicians is the first tv show to include a Baba Yaga, and not Supernatural or Grimm?  I mean, it seems obvious.

Lost Girl had a Baba Yaga.

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I’m so torn between wanting to watch every episode by week, and wanting to just binge the whole thing! 

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8 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

I’m so torn between wanting to watch every episode by week, and wanting to just binge the whole thing! 

I do both :)

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Oh man, I loved this episode. Kady was so conspicuously absent after stealing the apartment. In a lesser show, she would have shown back up unexplained to be told by Penny 23 that her Penny missed her, and then disappeared again. Her story could have been a minor quest story, but instead she started a revolution. It was nicely balanced with Zelda's story. You saw the Library's side and the hedge witch side. The Library explosion was explained. 

Speaking of Zelda, that mirror world was creepy. 

Rounding it out was the enjoyable Fen story. She is so enjoyable. Her delight at the souffle prediction was adorable. Also her speech. I loved that she was taking control of something. Nice call back with the knives. 

It was also great to see Penny 40. He has a bit more edge and dark humor, which I love. I loved his longing for Kady (hey, that was probably part of the test) and his genuine enthusiasm for what they do.

I am dying to know who was in the elevator. 

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Was this episode the same number in the season as that awesome one they did last season that got Harriet trapped in the first place?

It had a similar feel to it and dealt with similar themes (although it couldn't top it - but then nothing could, that's one of my favourite episodes of television ever). 

Every time I think this show might be slipping, they pull out something truly epic like this. It's season 4 and the show's themes and characterisation are still on point. I'm reminded of their epic season 1 finale when they went "Oh, did you think Quentin was the hero of this story? Oh yeah, he's not." That was the episode that sold me on this show and I love it's never lost sight of that.

And you could say that Quentin is, in fact, the emotional heart of the group but in the books this show is critiquing, the white cis male lead was the Great White Saviour not the emotional centre. It actually places Quentin in a position usually reserved for a female character.

I really liked the way this episode explored the actions that led to the destruction of the Modesto Library.

If I had any criticism of it though, it would be around the slightly heavy handed dealings of the protagonist issue - it's one thing it's managed to do throughout the show without spelling it out and so some of Penny's monologue felt a little clunky.  

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2 hours ago, AudienceofOne said:

If I had any criticism of it though, it would be around the slightly heavy handed dealings of the protagonist issue - it's one thing it's managed to do throughout the show without spelling it out and so some of Penny's monologue felt a little clunky.  

I can see that, but I actually liked the narration and didn't find it intrusive. It could have felt gimmicky but for the fact that it implicitly updated us on a fourth character missing from the narrative. Penny 40's enthusiasm and depth of knowledge (and acceptance that he couldn't change what was happening in the land of the living) was important, IMO. Last week we understood that he was no longer trying to get back and that he was a full on Librarian, but this gave us some insight into his life on between those points. It was clear it wasn't some brainwashing or cupcake trick. He seemed legitimately happy with his role. Proud of what he was doing. I liked that aspect of the story, personally. 

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I liked that Penny40 was no longer chafing against working for the library and had become good at his job. Not only that, but he was trying to help someone else understand why their role was important and how to be better at his job.

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16 minutes ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I liked that Penny40 was no longer chafing against working for the library and had become good at his job. Not only that, but he was trying to help someone else understand why their role was important and how to be better at his job.

Wait. Penny isn't at the library that Zelda is at right? He's at the underworld which I feel is different. They seem to have more knowledge of what is happenings otherwise the Zelda library people wouldn't be making all these mistakes. Do they have a different set of books? I really need to rewatch last season I've forgotten so much!

Anyone clear this up for me? I really do love this show but I just started an Alias rewatch and  probably need to watch some GOT before April and a girl has no time!

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This episode summaries are killing me! “Kady goes to the flea market.” “There are some flashbacks while Quentin and Alice confront a dog.” 

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7 hours ago, The Companion said:

Last week we understood that he was no longer trying to get back and that he was a full on Librarian, but this gave us some insight into his life on between those points. It was clear it wasn't some brainwashing or cupcake trick. He seemed legitimately happy with his role. Proud of what he was doing. I liked that aspect of the story, personally. 

Oh yes, this is a good point. I mean, it doesn't necessarily mean he hasn't drunk the Kool Aid - he's completely Team Library so his advice to Penny 23 is still suspect (although, if he's not interfering then why did he just interfere?) 

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5 hours ago, MissL said:

Wait. Penny isn't at the library that Zelda is at right? He's at the underworld which I feel is different.

I don't know if they've ever spelled it out. But it seems obvious that that Underworld has access to a different set of books, since they were commenting on things that the other Library doesn't know because Alice ?hid? ?took? their books. 

Man, I can't even remember plot points from earlier in the season, no wonder I can't remember things from season 2.

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18 hours ago, AnimeMania said:

Lost Girl had a Baba Yaga.

So did "Legends of Tomorrow", although she wasn't really much other than a side character in one episode.

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4 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

This episode summaries are killing me! “Kady goes to the flea market.” “There are some flashbacks while Quentin and Alice confront a dog.” 

This! I thought I was the only one noticing these. They crack me up. How many episodes do we get this season? And who do I have to do nasty things to to get 2 seasons a year?

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I don't know if they've ever spelled it out. But it seems obvious that that Underworld has access to a different set of books, since they were commenting on things that the other Library doesn't know because Alice ?hid? ?took? their books. 

This is what I don't get. There are many branches of the Library. The Underworld Branch and the Neitherlands Branch are just two of them. The Modesto Branch just exploded, for example. So how can each of them have different versions of the same books? I mean, they all work for the same order, so what's to stop someone in the Underworld Branch from reading Alice's book and telling the Neitherlands Branch where she is? Doesn't that defeat the whole purpose of what Alice did to her book in the revision room?

The first glimpse we ever got of the Library was the Neitherlands Branch, and that's where Penny saw all of his friend's books. I've always assumed that branch and that branch alone has the biographies. And if you wanted to look at them at another branch they could send them over or something.

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I'd like it to be explained but I can imagine that it's just the Underworld branch that's special. Penny seemed to be implying that they have some kind of master set that transcends space time and they can't even warn other library branch staff about certain things i.e. they can't warn that librarian that Harriet's mother (sorry I'm spacing on names today) is hallucinating and lying to him.

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9 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

This episode summaries are killing me! “Kady goes to the flea market.” “There are some flashbacks while Quentin and Alice confront a dog.” 

"Quentin and Julia play Pictionary Margo drinks some weird milk" cracked me up. 

4 hours ago, AudienceofOne said:

Oh yes, this is a good point. I mean, it doesn't necessarily mean he hasn't drunk the Kool Aid - he's completely Team Library so his advice to Penny 23 is still suspect (although, if he's not interfering then why did he just interfere?) 

True, but he did feel like he had found a good place, emotionally. I didn't get the feeling that he would never interfere. He said something like: we can see the bigger picture here. I wonder, too, if something like death isn't worth interfering with when you are happily settled in the afterlife. 

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On 3/7/2019 at 11:43 AM, Hanahope said:

This is the only show I watch as "appointment TV".  Everything else,  I stream on demand when I have time.

This is the only show I watch the recording of as soon as I can, even late at night.

I thought it was appropriate this episode aired close to the 8th of March.

6 hours ago, AudienceofOne said:

Oh yes, this is a good point. I mean, it doesn't necessarily mean he hasn't drunk the Kool Aid - he's completely Team Library so his advice to Penny 23 is still suspect (although, if he's not interfering then why did he just interfere?) 

He said what Zelda is doing will change the Library forever and what Kady is doing will change all of magic forever, so he seems to be on board with a regime change.

6 hours ago, AudienceofOne said:

I don't know if they've ever spelled it out. But it seems obvious that that Underworld has access to a different set of books, since they were commenting on things that the other Library doesn't know because Alice ?hid? ?took? their books. 

Man, I can't even remember plot points from earlier in the season, no wonder I can't remember things from season 2.

The books are written in the Underworld by Cassandra (who happens to look like Alice). So the Underworld has the originals and the Neitherlands branch has the copies Alice tampered with.

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3 hours ago, Noneofyourbusiness said:

The books are written in the Underworld by Cassandra (who happens to look like Alice). So the Underworld has the originals and the Neitherlands branch has the copies Alice tampered with.

Thanks, I knew we would have been told but I couldn't remember it. 

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On 3/7/2019 at 12:47 PM, Hanahope said:

Ok, now I have to wonder why the Magicians is the first tv show to include a Baba Yaga, and not Supernatural or Grimm?  I mean, it seems obvious.

On 3/7/2019 at 4:47 PM, AnimeMania said:

Lost Girl had a Baba Yaga.

14 hours ago, daisycat said:

So did "Legends of Tomorrow", although she wasn't really much other than a side character in one episode.

Coincidentally, there was a throw away line on Deadly Class the same night that this episode of the Magicians aired. Viktor said, "Is old proverb. To abuse one's horkum is to anger the Baba Yaga."

19 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

This episode summaries are killing me! “Kady goes to the flea market.” “There are some flashbacks while Quentin and Alice confront a dog.” 

14 hours ago, daisycat said:

This! I thought I was the only one noticing these. They crack me up.

I had a running list of them in the media thread at the beginning of the season because they were cracking me up!

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24 minutes ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Coincidentally, there was a throw away line on Deadly Class the same night that this episode of the Magicians aired. Viktor said, "Is old proverb. To abuse one's horkum is to anger the Baba Yaga."

And "The Baba Yaga, she eats my loins!" in the third episode.

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On 3/7/2019 at 3:19 AM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Penny got a promotion! It sounds terrible though

Oh, I loved that line.  “Secrets taken to the grave. Your job is to collect them.”

The imagination and cleverness of that being a job in the underworld was, for me, the perfect way to wrap up this episode. 

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On 3/7/2019 at 8:56 AM, festivus said:

Truth. I'm always pimping it to anyone I can. It's my favorite show.

I do have something else to say. I love Fen. Over the seasons she has become one of my favorite characters and she's right up there by Margo's side as the funniest character on the show. I ❤️ her. I would love to see her and Margo develop a closer bond. Those two together could be a formidable force. 

I have grown to love Fen too. I was meh on her in the beginning but she’s awesome now.

On 3/7/2019 at 9:04 AM, daisycat said:

THAT, people? THAT is how you do a show. Wow. Good gawd this show is the tits.

Any guesses who Penny is seeing in the elevator? I literally threw a towel at the TV I was so... ARRRRRRGHHHH!! Want next week NOW!!!

Am I the only one who swears every year to binge the show, but breaks down the second there's a new episode?

The last couple seasons I’ve made it about halfway and then binged, which makes waiting for the other half even harder. 

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"You have a case of white male protagonism"

This line and the one at the end from Derek (paraphrasing) "I know it's odd me giving you this test but upstairs loves irony so they always send me"

I love this show! 

PS. I've never been a huge shipper, but I love, I mean LOVE Margo and Josh. Even when they're fighting. But, come on guys, make up already😉

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Since they are holding off on the elevator reveal, I think that now we know the body is for the Sister and not the Monster that Eliot may very well die and be in the elevator BUT his book has TWO VOLUMES! So, resurrection in play? Just my 2 cents - but exactly the kind of long term pay off pf seemingly throwaway tidbits this show does so well. Also, that some  side or seemingly unimportant things (always wondered why 2 volumes, but not super obsesssed - thought it just a joke probably) may become really important things - which was the theme of the episodes. Guess we'll see.

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On 3/30/2019 at 3:37 PM, jenwit40 said:

Since they are holding off on the elevator reveal, I think that now we know the body is for the Sister and not the Monster that Eliot may very well die and be in the elevator BUT his book has TWO VOLUMES! So, resurrection in play? Just my 2 cents - but exactly the kind of long term pay off pf seemingly throwaway tidbits this show does so well. Also, that some  side or seemingly unimportant things (always wondered why 2 volumes, but not super obsesssed - thought it just a joke probably) may become really important things - which was the theme of the episodes. Guess we'll see.

When did they say it was two?! I totally don't remember that!

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The first time Penny goes into the Library he sees the group's books and there are two volumes for Eliot. I originally thought it had to do with his time on Earth and the second volume was about his time as a king in Fillory. Then after the mosaic episode I thought maybe it was about that but Q only had one book and he was there too. Now I have no idea!

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