S07.E13: Star City Slayer

[quarks]

5 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

Sometimes, you really do start to wonder if writers are actually sadistic who take out all their love of torture and misery and death on fictional characters because its more socially acceptable than doing awful things to real people.

Pay no attention to all of the torture equipment I keep behind the curtain!

[Morrigan2575]

8 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

I think we can blame COIE for all the vagueness about Oliver. It really feels like they’re telling us nothing about Oliver to keep that deal a secret. 

So I’m going to blame Barry since he’s partly why Oliver made the deal. 

Nevermind, took a minute to figure it out.

I'm not sold on Dinah losing the Cry. I think that's what they want us to believe but, I think she'll use it again before the end of the season. Although, it might be in the FF.

I still say everything we "know" about 2040 is bullshit so, I'm just going to wait and see what they reveal next.

Edited February 12, 2019 by Morrigan2575

[BkWurm1]

41 minutes ago, jay741982 said:

UGH Kat says in the TVLine Interview that Oliver and Felicity weren't great parents and Mia and Will will both talk about feeling like 2nd place to what Oliver and Felicity do SMH I cant believe what these fuckhead writers do to Future Olicity. Lazy writing taken from bad Fanfic out there where Olicity are shitty Parents😡. She also says Mia goes by Smoak cause Queen has a huge target on name alone and that Her and Felicity were strained in their relationship 

And Mia is Badass and Likeable! Kat says that Mia has Oliver's Fighting skills and Aggressiveness and her mommas Brain, her Ability to come up with plans and goals, and her Wit!

And Felicity and Donna had a strain on their relationship.  Sounds like mother/daughter stuff, nothing horrid.  Raising a kid that's just like her dad in so many ways, yeah, there will be fun times ahead.  😄  

Edited February 12, 2019 by BkWurm1

[apinknightmare]

9 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

I'm not sold on Dinah losing the Cry. I think that's what they want us to believe but, I think she'll use it again before the end of the season. Although, it might be in the FF.

Yeah - she can still talk. How amazing that Stanley was able to do precisely enough damage to ruin the thing that two people on this show can do! I'm not even sure what the point of her losing her cry would be - she's still the Black Canary in the future, and having that stupid sonic blast isn't a requirement to wear the suit. The two iterations before her didn't have it either. 

[BkWurm1]

Small thing in an episode with what we got, but I loved how big a fan Felicity is of Oliver's super spicy chili.  I'm sure there are some comic fans upset she can handle it though when I'm pretty sure few others in the comics could take the heat.  

Small pleasures in life.  😄

[Mellowyellow]

SQUEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

I LOVE MIA!!!!!! I am not finding her smug which is a relief. More petulant and kinda cheeky!

To be honest she won me over for smacking that asshole Canary Number whatever! Didn't even need to be the Olicitot but since she is: SQUEEEEEEEE SQUEEEEEEEE SQUEEEEEEEE

I don't really understand the annoyance that everyone seems to have towards William for doing what he did. I can totally understand him wanting a normal life but feeling like he has to stick around in the sinking ship with Oliver and Felicity because they are his parents. Plus add that to Oliver going public and not giving up Vigilante work, I can see why William would feel like they abandoned him, that he wasn't enough for them to move to Ivy Town and be normal parents and how he would carry that resentment into adulthood. My kid banned my husband from overnight business trips! 

I also get why he beat around the bush and called his grandparents too. My kid (who has had a storybook life so far) beats around the bush to ask for shrimp pasta for dinner. So if you look at William's life: Dead mother, vigilante father, had to go in hiding with new stepmum. He's a hot mess and he's probably too scared/unsure to go about things directly.

Anyways William gets a full pass from me! And I thought Jack Moore did fine! I will miss the little tucker!

Felicity and Curtis's last scene was so sweet. Their hug actually thawed my dead and cold resentful heart.

LOVED the Queen family saving themselves!

***

Random note: Do the Canaries just get worse with each incarnation? OMG the new one is AWFUL! 

Edited February 12, 2019 by Mellowyellow

[Chaser]

I’m fine with kid Williams decision but if that’s the basis for adult Williams beef then I got problems. 

[Mellowyellow]

6 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

Small thing in an episode with what we got, but I loved how big a fan Felicity is of Oliver's super spicy chili.  I'm sure there are some comic fans upset she can handle it though when I'm pretty sure few others in the comics could take the heat.  

Small pleasures in life.  😄

It could be the pregnancy hormones too!

I have a smug grin as I type this! I look about as smug as KC usually does right now! Heeeeeeeeee

[thuganomics85]

I knew there had to be a reason I was enjoying Maya/Blackstar this season (other than Katherine McNamara being stronger than most guest stars), and the answer has arrived!  Because she's Felicity and Oliver's child! I figured the reveal was heading there at the end, but I still enjoyed it, and I'm so looking forward to how the flash-forwards pay out (especially since it seems Felicity isn't actually dead.)

I figured Stanley was going to be the serial killer, but I liked how they did the reveal, complete with keeping Brendan Fletcher's name out of the credits.  I'm glad he is only been captured, so hopefully he'll be back in some form (hey, ARGUS is apparently recruiting people like him....)

I'm not completely soulless, so I do feel bad for Dinah, but hopefully this is heading towards one of those typical "I lost my powers, so I'm going to be an obnoxious jerk to everyone now" storyline, although to be fair, obnoxious jerk wouldn't be new for Dinah.

Wait, so Curtis is actually leaving for good?  I mean, I feel kind of bad for Echo Kellum since I really don't think he was at fault here, but I'm so glad to be rid of his lame jokes, hypocritical attitude, and general obnoxiousness.  It's still too bad, since I remember liking him when he first showed up.  The writing just really did a number on the character.

Also Teen William is bailing again, which is no real loss to me.  Although I found it hilarious that they think he'll be safer in Central City.  Have they even talk with Team Flash or Captain Singh (loved his cameo!)?  That city is going through their own issues.  At this point, he might actually be safer on the Waverider, as long as he stays out of Constantine's magic stash or doesn't take any of Mick's beer.

Overall, pretty good episode, so of course not only are we going on a break, but what do the previews promise for the show's grand return?  A Diaz-centric episode.  Good grief.  To steal from the poet, Regina George: Stop trying to make Diaz happen!

[way2interested]

Was the score they used for the reveal new or a riff of an older score? Because that was a cool theme

[Chaser]

I wondered if that was going to be Mia’s theme. 

[tennisgurl]

11 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

I have a smug grin as I type this! I look about as smug as KC usually does right now! Heeeeeeeeee

Heeee, I just picture all of the Olicity haters and the uber comic purists still holding onto their Laurel/Oliver OTP beyond all reason, and their angry, angry faces right now. "No way are Felicity and Oliver end game, no matter how many babies they have, its just a fling, no matter how married they are, we know he REALLY loves..."

[KenyaJ]

7 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

Small thing in an episode with what we got, but I loved how big a fan Felicity is of Oliver's super spicy chili.  I'm sure there are some comic fans upset she can handle it though when I'm pretty sure few others in the comics could take the heat.  

Small pleasures in life. 

And she asked for a second bowl. She was already eating for two and didn't even know it!

Even beyond the pregnancy reveal, I really loved this episode. Did they say if Stan is dead? I sincerely hope not because I love him. He's such a great, creepy villain. He was more menacing than Diaz has been at any single point on this show. I hope he's alive and will live to terrorize everyone another day. Plus, he was 100% correct when he was telling Oliver about his "team." I still can't believe Oliver said they would never turn their backs on him. Did he have temporary amnesia?

I also loved the Queen family working together to get out of the situation. I get why a kid would want a normal life, but there is truly never a dull moment in the Queen household. Some kids might thrive on that, but after everything William's been through, I can understand why he might want to go off with his grandparents and live a life of boring normalcy. (Good luck with that in Metaville, USA!) That last scene with Oliver and Felicity saying goodbye to William broke my heart. I'm going to miss their little family unit so much, and my heart hurt so much for all three of them. But I loved Felicity encouraging Oliver to put William's needs first, even if that meant letting him go.

Obviously, it's really hard to raise kids and save the city/world at the same time, and I'm excited that it sounds like the show is going to explore that both from Oliver and Felicity's perspective and from Mia and William's. Anyway, for the first time since 701, I'm interested in the flash forwards again, so yay for that!

Also, yay for Mia being a total badass. After reading Kat's interviews, I really admire all the thought she's put into this role and her description of Mia being the perfect blend of Felicity's sass and smarts with Oliver's brutishness. I'm so hear for our little Queen bee (yeah, I didn't forget that tattoo).

I wish I felt even a little bit moved by that Curtis/Felicity scene, but I'm just glad he's gone and Felicity no longer has to share her skills with anyone else on the show. I do wish Echo all the best, though, because he seems like a good guy. 

Still . . .  one down, two more to go.

[BkWurm1]

So if Curtis signs over all of Helix to Felicity, that means that Felicity now has the spine implant chip under her control?  I mean, logically Palmer tech should have had is since he created it while working for them but they seemed pretty sure they had ownership of the design when they were working on Helix so...

[insomniadreams88]

8 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

Heeee, I just picture all of the Olicity haters and the uber comic purists still holding onto their Laurel/Oliver OTP beyond all reason, and their angry, angry faces right now. "No way are Felicity and Oliver end game, no matter how many babies they have, its just a fling, no matter how married they are, we know he REALLY loves..."

I’ve already seen comments about how Mia’s not necessarily Oliver’s daughter ... despite the interviews confirming it and Felicity being pregnant in the present. 

[BkWurm1]

Quote

Also, yay for Mia being a total badass. After reading Kat's interviews, I really admire all the thought she's put into this role and her description of Mia being the perfect blend of Felicity's sass and smarts with Oliver's brutishness. I'm so hear for our little Queen bee (yeah, I didn't forget that tattoo).

I loved reading when she found out she was the Olicitot that she watched the first six seasons to get to know everything.  😄  Makes sense she's a fan.  

2 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

I’ve already seen comments about how Mia’s not necessarily Oliver’s daughter ... despite the interviews confirming it and Felicity being pregnant in the present. 

Lol.  Unless Barry has something he wants to share about his time as Oliver Queen...

[KenyaJ]

Casey is one of my favorite people in this fandom, so I love that this happened. And I love Stephen's acknowledgment that he's had zero chill about this. Also, I'm cracking up imagining him scrolling through the OlicityBaby hashtag tonight. 

[statsgirl]

I like the justification for why Stan is such a screwed-up serial killer. I just they heard the complaints about Ricardo "I was bullied in the orphanage" Diaz.

10 minutes ago, thuganomics85 said:

Also Teen William is bailing again, which is no real loss to me.  Although I found it hilarious that they think he'll be safer in Central City.  Have they even talk with Team Flash or Captain Singh (loved his cameo!)?  That city is going through their own issues. 

I said that he wanted a normal family and while Central City has it's own issues, he'll be the spoiled grandchild instead of Oliver Queen's son so there's that.

On the other hand, Prometheus found him when they were in hiding under another name so maybe he wont be so safe from Oliver's enemies after all.

21 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

I don't really understand the annoyance that everyone seems to have towards William for doing what he did. I can totally understand him wanting a normal life but feeling like he has to stick around in the sinking ship with Oliver and Felicity because they are his parents. Plus add that to Oliver going public and not giving up Vigilante work, I can see why William would feel like they abandoned him, that he wasn't enough for them to move to Ivy Town and be normal parents and how he would carry that resentment into adulthood. My kid banned my husband from overnight business trips! 

I also get why he beat around the bush and called his grandparents too. My kid (who has had a storybook life so far) beats around the bush to ask for shrimp pasta for dinner. So if you look at William's life: Dead mother, vigilante father, had to go in hiding with new stepmum. He's a hot mess and he's probably too scared/unsure to go about things directly.

William is 12? 14? though, not 6. He seems to have the maturity of a toothpick Clayton though. Yes, it's been a rough couple of years but I don't remember him asking Oliver to move to Ivy Town or  to give up being a vigilante or even complaining at all other than when Felicity wanted him to go to boarding school which he later told them that he enjoyed. And since he's in touch with his Clayton grandparents, there's no way he doesn't know how they feel about Oliver. I think he's a little sneak in the present, and a big disappointment to me in the future.

And after Felicity risked her life to protect him!

Given that Felicity trusted him to figure out the code to get into her secret hiding place in the future scenes, she has a lot more faith in him than he has in her.

[insomniadreams88]

1 minute ago, KenyaJ said:

Casey is one of my favorite people in this fandom, so I love that this happened. And I love Stephen's acknowledgment that he's had zero chill about this. Also, I'm cracking up imagining him scrolling through the OlicityBaby hashtag tonight. 

I feel like this is the most Stephen has tweeted about one specific Arrow-related thing possibly ever. 

[tennisgurl]

9 minutes ago, KenyaJ said:

After reading Kat's interviews, I really admire all the thought she's put into this role and her description of Mia being the perfect blend of Felicity's sass and smarts with Oliver's brutishness. I'm so hear for our little Queen bee (yeah, I didn't forget that tattoo).

She seems so excited for all of this, its really adorable, and rather admirable as she has clearly put a ton of thought into her character and why she is the way she is, and now that she has explained it, I can see a lot of it in her performance. Like, I can totally see her having Oliver's brutal fighting style and his more hard edged side, but also her moms snarkiness and intelligence. 

Plus, she liked my tweet celebrating the future Olicity baby ;) 

[jay741982]

26 minutes ago, Chaser said:

I wondered if that was going to be Mia’s theme. 

She had special music?

[apinknightmare]

1 hour ago, Primal Slayer said:

Cant wait to see how Olicity become horrible parents. This writing should be fun.

Well, at least Felicity knows never to forget a birthday cake for Mia so she doesn't accidentally get killed because of a tantrum. 

[jay741982]

26 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

Heeee, I just picture all of the Olicity haters and the uber comic purists still holding onto their Laurel/Oliver OTP beyond all reason, and their angry, angry faces right now. "No way are Felicity and Oliver end game, no matter how many babies they have, its just a fling, no matter how married they are, we know he REALLY loves..."

I seen someone in the comments of The TVLine Interview with Kat saying it's a shame they didnt go with her being Theas and Roy's kid cause it would be more interesting! WTF? Why would they have her being Theroy baby when the Jucier reveal is Daughter of the Arrow Supercouple!

[Mellowyellow]

14 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

William is 12? 14? though, not 6. He seems to have the maturity of a toothpick Clayton though. Yes, it's been a rough couple of years but I don't remember him asking Oliver to move to Ivy Town or  to give up being a vigilante or even complaining at all other than when Felicity wanted him to go to boarding school which he later told them that he enjoyed. And since he's in touch with his Clayton grandparents, there's no way he doesn't know how they feel about Oliver. I think he's a little sneak in the present, and a big disappointment to me in the future.

And after Felicity risked her life to protect him!

Given that Felicity trusted him to figure out the code to get into her secret hiding place in the future scenes, she has a lot more faith in him than he has in her.

His father went and outed himself to save NTA's ungrateful asses. Maybe after that gem William thought it wouldn't be any good to ask them to move to Ivy Town.

There is also the issue of sometimes kids want you to to do things without them needing to ask to PROVE that they are your number one.

Just because he said he enjoyed boarding school doesn't mean he did. Given everything that has happened maybe he figured the easiest thing was to say he enjoyed it.

I'm not blaming Olicity here but going by the life his parents lived and everything that happened I can totally see William carrying his bitter baggage into adulthood. 

[Primal Slayer]

14 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

Well, at least Felicity knows never to forget a birthday cake for Mia so she doesn't accidentally get killed because of a tantrum. 

She apparently forgets a lot of birthdays for both of her kids. 

[Soulfire]

All taken from here. 

Edited February 12, 2019 by Soulfire

[apinknightmare]

6 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

She apparently forgets a lot of birthdays for both of her kids. 

Oh, I bet you're desperately hoping she does, LOL. 

[Primal Slayer]

7 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

Oh, I bet you're desperately hoping she does, LOL. 

We know she doesn't or they wouldn't have an estranged relationship. I've been expecting it so I could care less about the baby.

[BkWurm1]

Quote

On the other hand, Prometheus found him when they were in hiding under another name so maybe he wont be so safe from Oliver's enemies after all.

This is the point that bugs me so.  The point of Oliver having a secret identity was not merely to keep from being arrested, it was ALWAYS to protect the ones he loved from the danger of that part of his life.  Now everyone knows he's the Arrow and anyone with a beef against him can go after his fam and now his son that the public has seen on TV is living unguarded just six hours away.  

It's awfully convenient if all of the future bad guys decide going after the teenager to use as leverage over Oliver or for revenge reasons is a no no.  The biggest reason for Oliver to keep William with him is to protect him. At least off at a boarding school he could be somewhat hidden with his whereabout a secret.  But kid's living with his ONLY other relatives.  Not hard to find him at all.  

For that concern to suddenly just not exist makes no freaking sense.  It would only work for William to choose normalcy with his grandparents if Oliver's secret WAS still a secret.  

[apinknightmare]

2 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

We know she doesn't or they wouldn't have an estranged relationship. I've been expecting it so I could care less about the baby.

I highly doubt their estranged relationship is over forgotten birthdays. 

[Primal Slayer]

1 minute ago, apinknightmare said:

I highly doubt their estranged relationship is over forgotten birthdays. 

With this show anything is possible.

[BkWurm1]

3 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

We know she doesn't or they wouldn't have an estranged relationship. I've been expecting it so I could care less about the baby.

People can have estranged relationships and still remember birthdays, lol.  Felicity and Donna had an estranged relationship and no one will convince me Donna the Glitter Bomb Smoak ever forgot a birthday of her baby girl, lol.  😄

[Velocity23]

1 minute ago, Primal Slayer said:

With this show anything is possible.

is it estranged or strained? Because i am pretty sure the interview said strained and it cannot be estranged if Mia and Felicity have been working together.

[insomniadreams88]

Mentioned this in the live thread but bringing it up here: I LOVED the transition from Felicity in the present when the power went out in Olicity’s apartment to Mia in the FF when she told William Felicity’s alive. 

[Chaser]

I’m pretty sure the reason for the estrangement will be weak but I highly doubt any backstory is going to be as bad as Birthday Cake. Im going to give Siren that ‘win’.

[Primal Slayer]

3 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

People can have estranged relationships and still remember birthdays, lol.  Felicity and Donna had an estranged relationship and no one will convince me Donna the Glitter Bomb Smoak ever forgot a birthday of her baby girl, lol.  😄

Felicity may remember but William/Mia wont know that she knows that they dont know that she knows. Either way we know that they dont have a good childhood or teenagehood and have issues with their parents. Which I cant wait to see how this is written (as in cant wait to see weak the writers twist it)

[lemotomato]

8 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

We know she doesn't or they wouldn't have an estranged relationship. I've been expecting it so I could care less about the baby.

You don't know why they're estranged. The flashforwards mislead us to think Oliver and Felicity abandoned him, and In this episode William chose to leave. 

What is for certain is that Oliver and Felicity won't kidnap their children's evil dopplgangers and brainwash them to replace their dead kids. So the bad parent bar has been set

[Chyromaniac]

I think it’s a testament to how much I blocked out the tedious slabside arc, that I just realized that our prison pals are Stan and Ollie...

[Primal Slayer]

1 minute ago, lemotomato said:

You don't know why they're estranged. The flashforwards mislead us to think Oliver and Felicity abandoned him, and In this episode William chose to leave. 

What is for certain is that Oliver and Felicity won't kidnap their children's evil dopplgangers and brainwash them to replace their dead kids. So the bad parent bar has been set

This isnt about Black Siren or Quentin. An eye for an eye.

[Velocity23]

Some saltiness here today.  I am glad for the dynamic we will get in episode 16. So much Felicity and her kids dynamic. 

[Primal Slayer]

1 minute ago, Velocity23 said:

Some saltiness here today.  I am glad for the dynamic we will get in episode 16. So much Felicity and her kids dynamic. 

Where's the saltiness?

[lemotomato]

5 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

This isnt about Black Siren or Quentin. An eye for an eye.

Just pointing out bad parents on the show, since you brought up the topic.

[Velocity23]

2 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

Where's the saltiness?

I am sure you will find it if you search for it. 

[Primal Slayer]

Just now, lemotomato said:

Just pointing out bad parents on the show, since you brought up the topic.

I brought up how I cant wait to see the ridiculous reasons the writers give us that make them bad parents but to each their own. Not everything is an attack on Olicity themselves.

1 minute ago, Velocity23 said:

I am sure you will find it if you search for it. 

[apinknightmare]

I'm wondering if Dinah didn't know Mia is Oliver and Felicity's kid, or if she just didn't say anything because she knew William didn't know (which, still...HOW)? And it took her a while to realize that Connor was Digg's kid. She seems to be real on top of those Mark of 4 vows.

[quarks]

Well, speaking purely for me, I'm more than a bit salty that Cicada and Stan have apparently been sharing the lower floor of a house for some time now, and we never got to see the Adventures of the Arrowverse Big Bads or their ongoing argument about who is worse: Metahumans, or Oliver's Friends?

Of course, some of those friends are metahumans so it might have confused things a bit, but still, wasted opportunity. And then, Stan could have taken Cicada to the hospital to get those ongoing metaknife wounds stuff treated and Cicada could have looked around and said, Wow, this hospital looks so familiar...

Ah, the missed opportunities here.

[Chaser]

Nothing about the timeline they are establishing makes sense. And that tattoo is just stupid.

I was really hoping Stan would get a couple episodes of terror. I know that technically he started in 7x11 but we didn’t get to enjoy his performance. 

[insomniadreams88]

2 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

I'm wondering if Dinah didn't know Mia is Oliver and Felicity's kid, or if she just didn't say anything because she knew William didn't know (which, still...HOW)? And it took her a while to realize that Connor was Digg's kid. She seems to be real on top of those Mark of 4 vows.

She and Zoe are too busy saying Felicity’s evil and planted bombs and dead to stop and think about things like that. 

Good thing Mia knocked out Zoe. Who knows how long it would’ve taken to get to the reveal otherwise? 

[Velocity23]

1 minute ago, insomniadreams88 said:

She and Zoe are too busy saying Felicity’s evil and planted bombs and dead to stop and think about things like that. 

Good thing Mia knocked out Zoe. Who knows how long it would’ve taken to get to the reveal otherwise? 

She did not recognize JJ/Connor right away either.

[calliope1975]

I'm going to coast during the hiatus on the hope/assumption that since Mia dislikes/distrusts Dinah that that means Felicity does, too. Give me this, Show!