S09.E14: Heroines in Heels

[Lady of nod]

2 hours ago, RHJunkie said:

Teresa makes up the rules as she goes along and it always boils down to 'do as I say, not as a I do'. Teresa called out Marge's lie about Jennifer's husband even though Marge immediately copped to it and apologized but she has yet to call out Danielle's lie about how she was told that she shouldn't trust Teresa and Melissa. She also said that Danielle has done nothing to her yet when Kim D. had done nothing to Siggy and Dolores and so they walked in her charity fashion show, Teresa had an issue with that. Danielle is the same way. She and Teresa made it seem like Marge was lower than life for throwing wine at her..as though that's worse than using the wine glass as a weapon. And for all her talk about Marge throwing the drink...didn't her husband throw a drink at Marge's husband at a previous event? Is it only crazy and not classy when it's Marge doing it?

Not going to lie, Jennifer's husband seems to be quite reasonable which I guess balances Jennifer's instinct to react emotionally to everything. I liked that he didn't gloss over and justify Jennifer's actions and simply said she was wrong for her behaviour because breaking a glass and using it as a weapon to threaten someone isn't okay and shouldn't be justified in anyway. I personally wouldn't be impressed with my husband coming home late, getting as far as the kitchen entryway before telling me that he's had a busy day and needs to do work in his office and then rushes off. I know they seem to have a 'traditional' home life where he works and she does takes care of the kids and family but I wonder how much of that is because HE demands it and how much of it is because Jennifer has taken pride in being the cultural wife and has set a precedence and created expectations in her marriage. My initial reaction here is that he can't be all the demanding and cultural if he was agreeable to have his wife join a reality TV show and have her going on trips while he either has to take care of the kids or figure out alternate arrangements for the kids to be taken care of. A really traditional man wouldn't be down for that. I suspect that his being absent a lot and her catering to both him and their children is a combination of both their faults. On the topic of Jennifer, have to say, Jennifer at the charity event looked great! Easily the best she's looked all season to me.

Dolores is so much more likeable without crazy Siggy as her bestie...either she's closer to Siggy than Teresa or she's learned from her experience with Siggy last season but she's not letting bad behaviour be overlooked...even when her childhood friend is one of the people defending it.

agree about Dolores. I'm really liking her this year. Glad she's calling out Teresa on this bizarre bond she now has with Danielle. What is that anyway??? And sooooo glad Siggy's gone. She was insufferable. 

[twilightzone]

7 hours ago, BrindaWalsh said:

I've decided that Jackie's issue is that she and her family are too normal.  And on reality TV, normal equals boring.  She seems smart, can hold her own, but there's no umph behind her - perhaps because she didn't grow up in Paterson, or wasn't a stripper or prostitution whore?  And her husband seems like a perfectly normal person, and engaged dad but hasn't been arrested or filed for bankruptcy (and I would assume he wants to keep his presence to a minimum, doesn't he have a legitimately successful career with a finance firm?  I can imagine the partners frowning a bit if he were to be throwing punches at a christening).  And her kids act in an age appropriate manner.  Her house is nice but not gaudy or tacky, and not the biggest house in Bergen county.   In other words, there is not much too snark on.  I mean...her lip injections are uneven and in her TH it looks like she was having a bit of trouble moving her mouth but that's nothing compared to the others.   

You can be "normal" on these shows and still be fun, entertaining, interesting.  The problem with Jackie is that she shares very little of own life.  She also doesn't have a history with the other women.  On the After Shows, she pretty much fades into the background.  Apparently at the reunion, Theresa went gunning for her. 

Jen is more polo razing, but people are talking about her - good or bad.  But Jackie and the fake phone call to her estranged sister; her husband playing soccer with the kids = stuff that will put her on the chopping block for being cut.

[Reality police]

7 hours ago, lezlers said:

I HATE the "well they didn't do anything to ME" argument.  It's so narcissistic.  If someone treats their other friends like shit, you're totally cool with it, so long as they don't cross YOU?  GTFOH with that.   How someone treats others speaks to their character.  Why do you want to hang out with someone who repeatedly shows bad character?  Don't you give a shit about the people they're mistreating?  Or screw everyone else so long as YOU'RE okay?  It's such a shitty attitude to have, and I would expect nothing less from Tre. 

She's just being a good, traditional Turkish wife! (gag)

Remember last season when Tre was so mad at Soggy and Delores? Why was she so mad? Because Soggy and D were walking in the fashion show because Kim D hadn't done anything to them! Pick a lane Tre.

Sorry @RHJunkie  I posted this before I read your comment. 

Last edit for the night, I already had Tre gif up before last edit. Now it looks like I am fluffing off RHJunkie. Didn't mean to do that. Sorry.

Edited February 10, 2019 by Reality police
I'm stupid.

[BrindaWalsh]

1 hour ago, twilightzone said:

You can be "normal" on these shows and still be fun, entertaining, interesting.  The problem with Jackie is that she shares very little of own life.  She also doesn't have a history with the other women.  On the After Shows, she pretty much fades into the background.  Apparently at the reunion, Theresa went gunning for her. 

Jen is more polo razing, but people are talking about her - good or bad.  But Jackie and the fake phone call to her estranged sister; her husband playing soccer with the kids = stuff that will put her on the chopping block for being cut.

You can't be normal on the Jersey housewives and get anywhere with it.  Maybe other shows, but not Jersey.  It has been batshit since day 1.

Agree - Jen is more polarizing.  But she is likely to stick around longer.

[Hockey Addict]

Maybe the reason Tre is sticking with Danielle is because she knows where the crazy is and if she attached to her then the drama will exist. And with drama comes ratings and with ratings comes money for her. Teresa knows she better keep the show alive. She's a felon, her felon husband isn't bringing in $$, and what other job could she get? 

[Gigi43]

2 hours ago, twilightzone said:

.  Apparently at the reunion, Theresa went gunning for her. 

Any word on if any Andy Cohens were harmed in the gunning?

Terasa really going for Jackie could be her best reason for for being kept around next year. She really faded into the background and,  to quote Rachel Green, "lifts right out."

[twilightzone]

12 minutes ago, Gigi43 said:

Any word on if any Andy Cohens were harmed in the gunning?

Terasa really going for Jackie could be her best reason for for being kept around next year. She really faded into the background and,  to quote Rachel Green, "lifts right out."

There's been rumors circulating that Jackie has been fired.

The tea is that she was actually a super fan of the show.  There were pictures of her meeting Theresa (as a fan) at various events. 

Keep in mind that next season will be all about the Giudices.  Joe will be released and facing deportation.   Jackie will come off looking unsympathetic if she goes after Theresa in that regards.

[Duke2801]

On 2/6/2019 at 10:49 PM, breezy424 said:

Could someone explain Marge's children/stepson situation?  I'm very confused.  The guy at the party was Marge's stepson from her former husband Jan (?) ?  But I thought they weren't talking to her.  But the one at the party isn't talking to his father but is talking to Marge?  And last week's thread there was talk of Marge having a biological son?

Does Joe have kids?

The stepson who was at the charity event is talking to Marge (clearly) but not to his dad. They’ve not explained why. I guess his siblings still aren’t talking to her.

Marge and Jan have one biological son. He’s never been on the show and wants to stay private. 

Yes Joe has grown kids. They’ve never been on the show either. 

[breezy424]

4 minutes ago, Duke2801 said:

The stepson who was at the charity event is talking to Marge (clearly) but not to his dad. They’ve not explained why. I guess his siblings still aren’t talking to her.

Marge and Jan have one biological son. He’s never been on the show and wants to stay private. 

Yes Joe has grown kids. They’ve never been on the show either. 

Thank you! 

[RedheadZombie]

6 hours ago, Duke2801 said:

The stepson who was at the charity event is talking to Marge (clearly) but not to his dad. They’ve not explained why. I guess his siblings still aren’t talking to her.

Marge and Jan have one biological son. He’s never been on the show and wants to stay private. 

Yes Joe has grown kids. They’ve never been on the show either. 

Jan's children are damn lucky Margaret helped raise them.  Compare Jan's lack of interest in having a relationship with his son with Margaret's continued attempts to make a connection, even after years of rejection.  I understand his children's anger, but I also respect Margaret's refusal to give up on them. 

[luckyroll3]

Teresa has such a one track mind.  When she latches on to something, it's like her brain is on repeat and she can't process any new information.  

Jennifer tells Bill that he was accused of sleeping in the guest house with his girlfriend.  He responds with a hearty laugh and I could imagine him thinking in his head, "that's so silly; I only meet my girlfriend at the penthouse in the city."

Out of all the charity events I've seen on various Housewives' shows, I actually believe that Margaret will use the funds for what she says she will.  

[Midnight Cheese]

I haven’t watched this in a while, but it seems I chose a good time to start up again.   

I don’t even know what to write  about Teresa.  She may be the hub of the show, but Bravo always taketh away what it had giveth, so naturally we get multiple damning clips indicating OF COURSE Juicy was unrepentantly cheating and humiliating her.   She can blame Marge all she likes but...hell.

I like Marge.  Can’t help it.   She really has no shame in her game - wears a bathing suit (and looks good) without agonizing over being skinny, warm to her ex’s gf (and I know given her infidelity she should be but still), and eats during a verbal fight.   Her charity event was well-done, and I like that she didn’t reinvent the wheel and worked with an expert who’d already created the gowns.  It’s a great idea.

I used to feel so sorry for Danielle and still do, but she’s just vicious to a degree that I can’t get, whatever ratio is attributed to active mental illness, or personality disorder, or character.   She also seems to be starving herself with the food restrictions.   I didn’t watch the episodes before the wedding and don’t even understand how the engagement to legal separation could happen so fast - WTF happened?   What do you armchair therapists believe is wrong with her?   She was sort of pitiable season one, no?  Or am I misremembering?   What a burden on her kids.

If you haven’t, treat yoself to the Watch What Crappens podcast recaps; their impression of Dr. Evil/Bill is precious.   Jennifer is....what can one say.  How old is she?  How old is everyone?   Having Jennifer do her own tequila infused blink blink blink fighting against the older, wiser, wittier Marge is some kind of Mutual of Omaha sponsored tragedy,

Edited February 10, 2019 by Midnight Cheese

[Audpaud]

25K really is disappointing, and with all the Marge Jr. $$ troubles in the press, hope the charity isn't another HW scam?!

Teresa and Danielle aren't a mystery to me. I think Teresa appreciates that it turned out Danielle had always been telling the truth about the depths of treachery her brother Joe and Melissa stooped to to get on the show? Plus, the producer driven "teams" that have become popular across the franchises. Teresa has always been a "good employee" and I think was assigned Team Danielle.

Glad this Season is close to the end...it was a real snooze.

[lezlers]

1 hour ago, Midnight Cheese said:

If you haven’t, treat yoself to the Watch What Crappens podcast recaps; their impression of Dr. Evil/Bill is precious.   Jennifer is....what can one say.  How old is she?  How old is everyone?   Having Jennifer do her own tequila infused blink blink blink fighting against the older, wiser, wittier Marge is some kind of Mutual of Omaha sponsored tragedy,

The WWC guys are hysterical.  I can't even see Dr. Evil or Marge's assistant come on the screen without cracking up just thinking of their impressions.

1 hour ago, Audpaud said:

25K really is disappointing, and with all the Marge Jr. $$ troubles in the press, hope the charity isn't another HW scam?!

Teresa and Danielle aren't a mystery to me. I think Teresa appreciates that it turned out Danielle had always been telling the truth about the depths of treachery her brother Joe and Melissa stooped to to get on the show? Plus, the producer driven "teams" that have become popular across the franchises. Teresa has always been a "good employee" and I think was assigned Team Danielle.

Glad this Season is close to the end...it was a real snooze.

I think this is the real reason, right here.  Teresa is good at following orders (less intelligent people usually are.)  You can see the wheels turning in her head (honestly, smoke is about to come out of her ears) trying to justify her continued support of Jen and Danielle when questioned about it.  All she knows is she's supposed to be on that "side."  

Edited February 10, 2019 by lezlers

[bravofan27]

Tre is likable because she's so basic. She doesn't overthink things. She wants to be happy, and when that is compromised she goes off. And then she hangs with folks that tell her she was right (ahem, Danielle) who make her feel happy. She's a happiness chaser. She doesn't do well with any type of stress or pressure, so I think Bravo is a perfect place for her, since they cater to her and make her feel like her problems are nothing (then they exploit them, but Tre doesn't realize it or care because she feels "happy"). It's sweet that she is trying so hard to keep her kids happy, her dad happy, and even Joe happy, I think she's completely over her head. She can yell at people to get them to do what she wants (like Joe visiting her father), but there is really nothing she can do that will fix her situation, and the fact is she is super living on borrowed time. Now that Danielle is divorced and her kids are over 18 I think her hustling game is going to have to go on overdrive and she won't have the time to care about Tre anymore.

Does anyone think maybe Tre and Danielle are befriending Jen for free plastic surgery?

[politichick]

I read on another site a comment by someone who lives in the same community as Jen and Bill and who may also even be from the Turkish community, and she said that he is an engaged father and attends a lot of the kids' events. I do think he disapproves of Jennifer's parenting skills and because he's bringing home all of the bacon, fair or not, she's got more of the responsibility. Plus, doesn't she have nannies, as well? She needs to start implementing more discipline and stop giving in all the time, especially with gifts and bribes. I also think that because her family didn't have much when she was growing up, she overcompensates.  And I also think her husband cheats. I like him, though, because he is honest with her about stuff like sorry, not sorry, but there was some truth in Jackie's article and also about her behavior in Cabo and acknowledging during his chat with the fellows that tequila is not her friend.

No words for Teresa.

Liking Melissa more this season. She's being more what I hope is herself. I also think she may be outgrowing her husband. Hopefully next season she will have weaned him off of the gross comments. Does she want her daughter to be treated like that? Also, it's rubbing off on that littlest boy in the worst way.

[Gigi43]

5 hours ago, politichick said:

Liking Melissa more this season. She's being more what I hope is herself. I also think she may be outgrowing her husband. Hopefully next season she will have weaned him off of the gross comments. Does she want her daughter to be treated like that? Also, it's rubbing off on that littlest boy in the worst way.

I'd like to know what Joe wants for his daughter too. In seasons past he's told Antonia to always be a good sister, now he's talking about how he hopes she's a good wife and mother, while disrespecting her mother in front of her. Nothing about how she should be treated and he seems to be becoming a worse example the closer she gets to dating age. Where's the "old school" drilling it into his daughter she better always be treated right? 

I really hope this is called out at the reunion. Joe's behavior has always been problematic but it's starting to impact the kids and in the past Joe Gi was always around to kinda take heat off him. Gorga could sit there and say "I don't call my wife the c-word", "I don't get drunk in front of my kids" and Andy would grill Giudice on the legal issues and uses of gay slurs. But now it's Joe Gorga who has the mantle of worst HW husband  (Bill has not disrespected Jennifer to the kids and I just don't know enough about him or the real workings of the family. ) Last year was heavy on Teresa being out and Siggy but Joe has been really front and center again and Andy has always loved Joe though so I'm really interested as to how it will play out. How he's openly disrespected Melissa in front of the kids has been, for me, the worst behavior this season. 

Edited February 11, 2019 by Gigi43

[SweetieDarling]

I laughed when Jennifer said, "I'm scared that my behavior in Cabo is really going to affect my relationship with these girls"...How can in not?

But then, when she apologizes, they all acted like it was no big deal, just lay off the tequila and don't shove a jagged champagne flute stem in my face, and we're all good, my jaw dropped. There is no way in hell I'd have found that behavior excusable.

[ghoulina]

On 2/9/2019 at 7:12 AM, QQQQ said:

My guess is that he has tried to impose discipline and set boundaries, but as soon as he's out the door Jennifer goes back to giving in to their demands. I bet Bill is exhausted - mentally and physically. But their lifestyle demands a high income, so it's not like he's going to quit his job so he can be at home just to counter-balance Jennifer's crappy parenting. I also think Jennifer wants Bill to think she has a hard job so she is seen as contributing something to the relationship (if you leave me, these kids become your problem 50% of the time, buddy). It's sad because I think it has the opposite effect, and makes him want to leave.

But is lifestyle more important than your children? I just can't put this all on her. If he's that bothered by how they're turning out - absolutely cut back and stay home more. I sure as hell would. You only have so many years to put into raising decent human beings. If he wants to hide away at work and put all the blame on her, then he deserves equal condemnation. 

On 2/9/2019 at 12:24 PM, lezlers said:

I HATE the "well they didn't do anything to ME" argument.  It's so narcissistic.  If someone treats their other friends like shit, you're totally cool with it, so long as they don't cross YOU?  GTFOH with that.   How someone treats others speaks to their character.  Why do you want to hang out with someone who repeatedly shows bad character?  Don't you give a shit about the people they're mistreating?  Or screw everyone else so long as YOU'RE okay?  It's such a shitty attitude to have, and I would expect nothing less from Tre. 

I couldn't agree more. And this was the entire point of view Margaret TRIED to bring up last year, but it got sidetracked because of her Hitler analogy. I, myself, thought it was very apt. Someone doesn't have to do wrong to me in order for me to decide they're wrong and stay the fuck away from them. 

[RHJunkie]

31 minutes ago, ghoulina said:

But is lifestyle more important than your children? I just can't put this all on her. If he's that bothered by how they're turning out - absolutely cut back and stay home more. I sure as hell would. You only have so many years to put into raising decent human beings. If he wants to hide away at work and put all the blame on her, then he deserves equal condemnation.

 

It's certainly not all on her but she's definitely the biggest culprit here. It's more than a lifestyle, there are culture and personalities at play as well. The kids are 'spoiled' not because dad isn't home enough, it's because mom, who is their primary caretaker lacks any boundaries or discipline in the household. Arranged marriages, especially back in the day, are unlikely to have a prospective couple talking about how they would like to raise their kids...it's often very superficial commonalities and each side's general approval of the other side of the family that leads to an arranged marriage. They come from a world where therapy is laughable and divorce is taboo, affection is not meant to be public and the home has roles and expectations of each partner. 

Unless Bill is spoiling the kids while putting all the onus on Jennifer to be the disciplinarian, then the issue isn't about a dad not being home enough, the issue is with a mother who is afraid to discipline her children and I think a large part of that is Jennifer wants to be liked by her children and wanted to be seen as a 'cool' mother because that's what she wanted growing up in her mother and didn't have that. While my mother worked during my childhood, my father worked substantially more hours a week than she did and as a result, she was the primary caretaker in the home and not a single one of us grew up spoiled, we had bedtimes, we had chores (that we didn't get paid to do) and we didn't walk around in brand name clothing. It's not that the kids are actively manipulating Jennifer - it seems like she quickly offers bribes to avoid an issue with her kids and that's not competent parenting. Bill being home more is obviously better for the kids but it's not going to make a difference if he and Jennifer aren't on the same page as it relates to setting boundaries for the children...and it also reads as really shady against if he has to work less to stay home and raise his kids because his wife is seemingly incompetent in doing a good job. He needs to stop lecturing her about setting boundaries and instead agree that they need to work as a team to set rules and fairly keep those rules in check regardless of which parent is in charge at any given time. 

Because my mother was the disciplinarian, my father never overstepped...though it led to a lot of 'go ask your mother' conversations, lol.

[ghoulina]

23 minutes ago, RHJunkie said:

Unless Bill is spoiling the kids while putting all the onus on Jennifer to be the disciplinarian,

But isn't he? Since he makes all the money? If they're so old fashioned, why doesn't he lock down the money and only give her an appropriate allowance? That way she wouldn't be ABLE to spoil the children. 

Don't get me wrong, Jennifer sucks at disciplining. And I totally agree with you about her being afraid to be disliked. But I think he contributes to the problem in his own way. He bitches about her spending, but does he try to set up a budget or do other things to prevent her from spending?

And I don't think anyone NEEDS a home with a basketball court and a throne room. If he wanted to spend more time with the kids; and, therefore, ensure they're not being spoiled, he COULD scale back. 

I get the concept of husband providing/mom rearing kids. I have stayed home with my kids from day one. My husband owns his own business and often works 7 days a week. But we live in a 1200 sq foot, 3 bedroom, 1 bath home. We drive Chevys. There isn't a designer label in any of our closets. So he's working long hours just to PROVIDE. Bill has gone beyond providing. And I just don't think it's cool to create this large family and then spend most of their lives hiding from them. 

[RHJunkie]

3 minutes ago, ghoulina said:

But isn't he? Since he makes all the money? If they're so old fashioned, why doesn't he lock down the money and only give her an appropriate allowance? That way she wouldn't be ABLE to spoil the children. 

Don't get me wrong, Jennifer sucks at disciplining. And I totally agree with you about her being afraid to be disliked. But I think he contributes to the problem in his own way. He bitches about her spending, but does he try to set up a budget or do other things to prevent her from spending?

And I don't think anyone NEEDS a home with a basketball court and a throne room. If he wanted to spend more time with the kids; and, therefore, ensure they're not being spoiled, he COULD scale back. 

I get the concept of husband providing/mom rearing kids. I have stayed home with my kids from day one. My husband owns his own business and often works 7 days a week. But we live in a 1200 sq foot, 3 bedroom, 1 bath home. We drive Chevys. There isn't a designer label in any of our closets. So he's working long hours just to PROVIDE. Bill has gone beyond providing. And I just don't think it's cool to create this large family and then spend most of their lives hiding from them. 

I don't put the onus on Bill for the way Jennifer chooses spends money - she should be accountable for what and where she spends money but I do agree that he doesn't participate in improving the situation. As I mentioned, he needs to sit down with her and they need to put together a plan that they both will follow through with so that neither one looks like the bad guy to the kids.

Bill doesn't seem showy to me from what I can see. Any reference to his wealth stems from his wife's spending or how she talks about her wealth, not by anything he says or does or even in the way he acts. Maybe he wouldn't want to live in 1200 square foot home with a wife and 5 kids but I also don't get the impression that he needs a marble showcase with a basketball court and at-home spa either, and a billion thrones for good measure.

What I do know from watching a lot of these shows is that many of these people aren't as rich as their big homes and fancy cars would suggest they are. Bill may be more financially able to work less than others but not likely at the rate his wife spends money. But more than that, he works in a very competitive industry that relies on returning client as well as referrals. People don't refer clinics, they refer the doctors they have experience working with. If they don't work with him, they can find someone else that they're satisfied with and in the long-term, it hurts his business. After decades of RH being on TV, we've seen a number of plastic surgeons on the show and every single one of them have wives that complain about them working too much and I don't think they're all trying to hide from their families (maybe in some cases that's a happy convenience), but I think it's more likely a case of trying to keep pace with the industry so that they don't completely fall behind after having built a reputation that has made them a top go-to surgeon in their area. 

[Rottiemommie]

  ON 2/7/2019 AT 8:51 AM, DOSODOG SAID:

"Last night on WWHL, Andy mentioned Delores had been a correction officer for 6 years.

What?  That's fascinating to me!

I could see that with the way she handles herself lol shes a bitch you don't want to fight with and i love it ... "

She straight up said where she comes from in Paterson she had to throw down growing up. She's not kidding. I go to a training class for work every Tuesday in Paterson. Paterson is no joke. I drive thru Franklin Lakes often too. Quite a study in contrast those two. 

[SweetieDarling]

Bill seemed very relieved at the charity event that the other husbands welcomed him and were joking around with him, rather than holding Jennifer's behavior in Cabo (and in general) against him. He seemed a little apprehensive at first, as if he thought they would hold him accountable for what she said and did.

[TattleTeeny]

Quote

She straight up said where she comes from in Paterson she had to throw down growing up. She's not kidding. I go to a training class for work every Tuesday in Paterson. Paterson is no joke.

Just some parts. There are plenty of "anytown" areas too.