S08.E06: Honey, I'm Home?

[Neurochick]

54 minutes ago, Empress1 said:

I tend not to wonder why women in big cities are single because often, the ratio of men to women tends to work in men's favor. I do tend to wonder why men who want to get married are not married, because again, if the ratio of men to women is in your favor, you can usually find someone. My single friends and I tend to complain that the single men we know don't want to settle down because they don't have to (lots of options + long biological clocks = long sowing oats periods), so I tend to think that a man who WANTS to settle down CAN settle down.

Yes to this, but you still want to see if the woman was in a serious relationship, or engaged before and what happened.  For instance, one season there was a woman who was in a serious relationship and the boyfriend died suddenly.  Where was she in the grieving process?  Did she want to get married at first sight to replace the man who passed away?  The ratio often works to men's favor, but it's not like that for every single woman.

[Crazy Bird Lady]

Keith's grandmother has, without question, been a saint to take care him into her home (and let him live there rent-free) all of this time, while Keith continues working part-time to afford college.  No doubt, she loves him as her own child and is very proud of him for all he has achieved so far (in spite of whatever challenges he's faced) --and Granny is proud of his determination to continue learning and achieve even more.

Keith's Grandma certainly seemed very sweet and supportive of his marrying Queen Christine, friendly and open to her and all her family.

On 1/30/2019 at 9:37 PM, configdotsys said:

This is my problem with Kristine from the beginning. The whole "never get a second chance to make a first impression" thing popped right out. As soon as she said she is the queen, she lost me. Kristine seems the type that believes she can fix Keith and get him straightened out in all the ways about him that she wants changed. 

And why should the grandmother, who is now free of this man baby, make dinner several times a week (or ever) for these people? Sure, if they visit on occasion and she makes dinner that is great but using her to make up for the shortcoming of a 30-something married man? I'm sure at this point in her life, granny wouldn't mind a little "me" time. 

I certainly agree that Granny has earned some "me" time!  But she will miss having Keith there with her every day. He's 'her baby'. 

I see nothing wrong with Keith and the Queen actually sitting down and talking it over with Grandma. If they explain the problem with Keith's busy schedule combined with the new household duties and the fact that Keith has no clue how to cook, Grandma would probably delighted to have them over for dinner a couple of times a week (when Keith isn't working or at school or studying for tests). ...And who better than Grandma, to teach Keith (and maybe the 'Queen') a few things about cooking while they're at it?!! 

          ____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Again with Kate and Will: 

On 1/30/2019 at 3:16 PM, Gem 10 said:

She [Kate] shouldn’t change.  She is what she is.  If there is no connection, they wait it out and go their separate ways.  Who knows?  By the end of six weeks there could be a turn around.  Why is Dr. Blondie not all over this delima?  Isn’t this where she comes in and has a talk with them about no sexy time? Calling Dr. Blondie, Sex Therapist!  Where are you?

Clearly, 'Dr. Blondie' only intervenes when it's a man that she's attracted to who's being emotionally torn down by the spouse's "abusive language"!

On 1/30/2019 at 4:18 PM, Tatortot said:

Apparently Luke was blindsided by the fact that he verbally, and emotionally abused Kate.  I really wish that after he was made aware by Pastor Cal that he would have sat her down and had a nice long chat about how bad he felt for hurting her, a little acknowledgement in this episode would have went a long ways. Or maybe he didn't really feel that bad ha?  I really don't even know how she can sleep in the same bed with him right now, or even hug him.

I am actually pretty repulsed by him myself.  He should not have been picked for this show.

 

Agreed. Except I knew Luke was too much of a jerk to sit down with Kate and have a long talk with her about how sorry he is for what he said, and the way he's been acting toward her, and acknowledging how badly he hurt her. 

In fact, the person I'm most upset about in that situation is Pastor Cal. He literally acknowledged that what Luke said to Kate was "verbal abuse," but then Cal encouraged Kateto continue that pointless and torturous "marriage"!!

14 hours ago, Empress1 said:

Keith and Luke are young enough that I don't think much of them being single - it's not weird at all to me to be a 30-year-old single man in a big city. 

Jamie mentioned friends in the preview too (Luke asked if she [Kate] thought her friends would have reservations about them and she answered) and she clearly has them - they were shown at the wedding. I hope it's just an editing trick.

I'm a little confused by this comment, but I think what Empress is saying is that Kate's friends might have 'reservations' about their relationship?  

(Or, was it that Luke's friends might have reservations? ...Or that Kate might have reservations about Luke's friends??) 

Edited February 1, 2019 by Crazy Bird Lady

[Soup333]

1 hour ago, Crazy Bird Lady said:

Except I knew Luke was too much of a jerk to sit down with Kate and have a long talk with her about how sorry he is for what he said, and the way he's been acting toward her, and acknowledging how badly he hurt her. 

In fact, the person I'm most upset about in that situation is Pastor Cal. He literally acknowledged that what Luke said to Kate was "verbal abuse," but then Cal encouraged Kateto continue that pointless and torturous "marriage"!!

No, Lukewarm isn't the type to admit when he's done wrong. I imagine he's been this way his entire life. That's why he said some things should be private and his face got so red when Cal confronted him. He didn't want to talk about it. I'd bet anything that if Kate had said "repulsed and dead inside" to him, he'd have crowed about it for the entire six weeks. 

I'm with you about Pastor Cal encouraging them to stick with it. All he had at that point was Luke's embarrassed acquiescence and Kate's dazed and confused agreement to continue. He should have cut them both loose. Luke does not like that woman. He doesn't even respect her as a human being. He's on good behavior right now because he was shamed. 

[GettingGray]

Kate’s speech reminds me of Sonya’s.  Do you notice that when she speaks, the last part her voice is higher?  That would drive me crazy.

Also, she is not a mental marvel.

[Crazy Bird Lady]

4 minutes ago, GettingGray said:

Kate’s speech reminds me of Sonya’s.  Do you notice that when she speaks, the last part her voice is higher?  That would drive me crazy.

Also, she is not a mental marvel.

Snark is always allowed on these forums.

[Neurochick]

8 minutes ago, Soup333 said:

I'm with you about Pastor Cal encouraging them to stick with it. All he had at that point was Luke's embarrassed acquiescence and Kate's dazed and confused agreement to continue. He should have cut them both loose. Luke does not like that woman. He doesn't even respect her as a human being. He's on good behavior right now because he was shamed.

When did he encourage them to stick with it?  He gave both of them an out.  "Do you want to continue?" he asked.  Both of them said yes.  They're both adults, we don't live in a nanny state, so there's nothing more the man can do.  Pastor Cal told Luke, "either man up or get out."  Luke could have said, "then I'm out" but he didn't.  Neither Luke nor Kate are children, if they want to make fools of themselves, they have that right.  

[Empress1]

2 hours ago, Crazy Bird Lady said:

I'm a little confused by this comment, but I think what Empress is saying is that Kate's friends might have 'reservations' about their relationship?  

(Or, was it that Luke's friends might have reservations? ...Or that Kate might have reservations about Luke's friends??) 

It was that Kate’s friends might have reservations about Kate and Luke’s relationship. If I recall correctly, Luke asked about “their” (Kate’s friends) reservations & Kate said something like “If they [her friends] see that you’re treating me right, they’ll be ok.” 

[Soup333]

53 minutes ago, Neurochick said:

When did he encourage them to stick with it?  He gave both of them an out.  "Do you want to continue?" he asked.  Both of them said yes.  They're both adults, we don't live in a nanny state, so there's nothing more the man can do.  Pastor Cal told Luke, "either man up or get out."  Luke could have said, "then I'm out" but he didn't.  Neither Luke nor Kate are children, if they want to make fools of themselves, they have that right.  

Stick with it is probably the wrong term. But Pastor Cal did say, "We cannot allow this. We cannot stand for something this vile. I've never heard anyone say something so vile. " So when it is the experts' responsibility to say this is too much, we're ending this? Is the experts only purpose to throw people together and then continue to "counsel" them into giving the marriage a chance even if it's obviously unhealthy?

There's been discussion of both of them parroting producer lines about their attraction possibly growing. We acknowledge the pressures the producers may be putting on the participants and know from history of past seasons that the contract is hard to get out of and yet this chopped and screwed interview is taken on face value? We can't be sure Kate didn't want out. Or Luke didn't want out but buth succumbed to the pressure to keep filming for whatever reason.

1 hour ago, GettingGray said:

Kate’s speech reminds me of Sonya’s.  Do you notice that when she speaks, the last part her voice is higher?  That would drive me crazy.

Also, she is not a mental marvel.

I've been wondering about Kate. Slow on the uptake or something else? At some point they flashed back to the wedding and she was giggling and smiling throughout. When she first met Luke at the altar she let out a huge, open-mouthed laugh that I don't think we've seen from her since. On the honeymoon, I think she did chuckle a few times, but we saw her being more and more subdued as time passed. Now she's mostly blank, even if she has a few half-smiles or giggles when someone other than Luke is talking to her. It's like we're watching her light dim more and more with every episode.

[dirtypop90]

Well we know these job titles they give them are fuzzy.  Regarding Keith, my friend in Philly told me in some places dialysis tech's get paid by the hour, and she knows some who make under 30k.  So if Keith doesn't get a lot of hrs, he might 20k-30k, so it's believable Kristine makes much more.  Apparently, Will isn't a financial analyst and his job is more akin to client relations.  I was curious after the 50/50 discussion and seeing his home, so I went poking around the web.

Edited January 31, 2019 by dirtypop90

[Empress1]

45 minutes ago, Soup333 said:

So when it is the experts' responsibility to say this is too much, we're ending this? Is the experts only purpose to throw people together and then continue to "counsel" them into giving the marriage a chance even if it's obviously unhealthy?

There's no way to enforce this, though. You can't force someone to get a divorce. The show harps about how these are legally binding marriages. If that's true, they're married whether or not they're on the show. The show can say "We can't be party to this" and refuse to film them (and honestly, I doubt they would unless there was actual physical abuse, like if someone showed up to film with a black eye), but they can't force the couples to split. They can even SAY "I think you two should get a divorce," but they have no control over whether or not the couples actually do. They literally cannot end the marriages.

[Soup333]

5 minutes ago, Empress1 said:

There's no way to enforce this, though. You can't force someone to get a divorce. The show harps about how these are legally binding marriages. If that's true, they're married whether or not they're on the show. The show can say "We can't be party to this" and refuse to film them (and honestly, I doubt they would unless there was actual physical abuse, like if someone showed up to film with a black eye), but they can't force the couples to split. They can even SAY "I think you two should get a divorce," but they have no control over whether or not the couples actually do. They literally cannot end the marriages.

So what’s the point of Cal’s blustering then? Just to absolve the experts’ responsibility? They said they want to continue on film so we’re good! 

[humbleopinion]

Puke: Whoo... Kate...just got caught by the short hairs... Pastor Cal knew about our private marital conversation... you know the one that  was supposed to be secret between husband and wife...

Kate: As soon as you finished making gagging noises and vacated the bathroom, I videoed what you said to me to the crew, the field producer, my mother and brother, "the experts", that nice groomsman at the wedding, the other brides and grooms...

Puke: You know I was drunk...you kept leaning into me and started the kiss...so it is your fault it was bad.

Kate : A bad kiss is forgivable but what you said is going to brand you as a total asshat.

Puke: Do you want to quit the show?

Kate: Not until I completely destroy you.....

Edited January 31, 2019 by humbleopinion

[Empress1]

23 minutes ago, Soup333 said:

So what’s the point of Cal’s blustering then? Just to absolve the experts’ responsibility? They said they want to continue on film so we’re good! 

I mean ... probably. I'd be willing to bet that the show (including the experts) is set up in such a way to protect itself. Most professional situations are - HR protects the company first, not the worker. (I would guess that if there WERE physical abuse, the show has set itself up so that it's not liable.) The show can't force people to stay together, either - look at Heather and Derek. She was out in a week. The show couldn't force her to stay married, though they could (and did) force her to fulfill her filming obligations. They're two separate things. And in Pastor Cal's ministry, I'm sure he's encountered some couples that were miserable, but he can't drag those couples to a divorce attorney either. At the end of the day, only the people who are in a relationship (even a weird semi-fake one like this) can decide the terms of that relationship.

Edited January 31, 2019 by Empress1

[aphroditewitch]

1 hour ago, Soup333 said:

 

I've been wondering about Kate. Slow on the uptake or something else? At some point they flashed back to the wedding and she was giggling and smiling throughout. When she first met Luke at the altar she let out a huge, open-mouthed laugh that I don't think we've seen from her since. On the honeymoon, I think she did chuckle a few times, but we saw her being more and more subdued as time passed. Now she's mostly blank, even if she has a few half-smiles or giggles when someone other than Luke is talking to her. It's like we're watching her light dim more and more with every episode.

I don't think she is slow on the uptake. She gets that Luke is not into her. And I think that was what the first conversation about him not kissing her was about. She was trying to get him to just say it. I think she felt giddy and nervous about the wedding. But because Luke is being awful towards her and the producers are likely on her back about staying with the process, she has retreated within herself. When they were laughing at the end of the most recent episode, the laughter did not reach her eyes. I think she just wants to get through the remaining weeks and not have to deal with Luke. I really hope she was able to go with her gut on decision day and not feel like she has to stay in this beyond decision day. The show doesn't care and the experts don't care. 

[SabineElisabeth]

On 1/29/2019 at 9:43 PM, ChiCricket said:

Will acted shocked (amazed?) that Jasmine has lived with a guy before...after he just said he lived with a girlfriend himself. Hmmm

 

On 1/30/2019 at 11:02 AM, Mercolleen said:

Right? Is a "Jesus Christ" really necessary 

My first thought was that Will was shocked that Jasmine had lived with a previous boyfriend because it was surprising to him that she could find someone who would want to live together (obvious how I feel about her haha). However, seeing the conversation unfold, I think Jasmine is not the only one stuck in a time warp, as it's clear Mr. 50/50 has some preconceived notions about gender roles himself.

Specifically, that it's hardly worth mentioning he lived with a prior partner, but OMG, not his virginal bride!!  In between the bleeping, he said something about it being "true confession" time, and finding someone to tolerate you is not confession worthy, but being a scandalous tramp certainty is.  So, perhaps he should try again with his argument that he and Jasmine be completely equal....and actually mean it this time, or STFU. 

(Men with this particular attitude bug the shit out of me.  Hypocritical judgments also bug the shit out of me, and if I were Jasmine, I'd be pissed he called me out for my traditional ideas about gender roles when he obviously has them too. And if he's not self aware enough to realize he's being completely logically inconsistent, then he should talk less and think/self reflect more....IMHO).

Edited January 31, 2019 by SabineElisabeth

[discoprincessthe2]

On 1/30/2019 at 4:04 PM, silverspoons said:

Keith is listed before the show as a patient care tech and then the show switched to Dialysis Tech? Both are quick programs, under 2 years , sometimes not even needing a degree. In PA there are still hospital based training programs that don't even require attending a Community college. 

Keith has stated his goal is medical school and becoming a doctor. He is working on his Bachelors right now so an MD is far off. I hope his bachelors is in nursing but it did not sound like it. He would be much better off going into nursing and then maybe in the future going becoming a nurse practioner. 

Dialysis nurses can make good money in Philly. I did way to much research on this during the Kate Gosselin days. She was a Dialysis RN (and she did not go to college just trained at a hospital program and took the exam) and she was making over 70k a year 15 years ago. A Dialysis Tech makes under 40k so for a about a year or training or school to jump 30k is a good return. Keith dream of becoming a doctor is a long expensive stressful road as he is 30 and not near finished (I say this as someone who was previously married to a medical student and resident). 

 

When Keith said he was in nursing school (which I assumed was going to lead to him becoming an registered nurse), but he said he wanted to become a doctor, I was confused. Those are two different types of schooling. (Why would he even want to do both?)

[Ilovepie]

4 hours ago, gonecrackers said:

Yes she could pull a Heather, but look at how people treated Heather.

True, but it was never clear what Derek was smoking, and Heather was pretty unlikeable even before she left him. In this case, we know exactly what Luke did and he is being largely reviled. I think more people are flabbergasted that she is choosing to stay with him when common sense says leave his sorry ass and don't look back.

[Ohwell]

I really do think there' something "off" about Kate, to the point that she comes off as kind of creepy, at least to me.  She doesn't have much of a personality.  I don't even think she's shy or reserved, she just seems like she's checked out, not only from Luke (which would be understandable) but from the rest of the world.  

i

[Kiss my mutt]

I wonder if Luke gave Kate an attitude after the meeting with Cal. He will probably find a way to make it her fault he’s such an asshat. 

[aphroditewitch]

10 minutes ago, Ilovepie said:

True, but it was never clear what Derek was smoking, and Heather was pretty unlikeable even before she left him. In this case, we know exactly what Luke did and he is being largely reviled. I think more people are flabbergasted that she is choosing to stay with him when common sense says leave his sorry ass and don't look back.

It wasn't just about Derek's smoking. It was about him being verbally abusive and shouting at Heather to the point that she was in tears. And Pastor Cal should have called that behavior out back then and he didn't because the show does not care. 

16 minutes ago, discoprincessthe2 said:

When Keith said he was in nursing school (which I assumed was going to lead to him becoming an registered nurse), but he said he wanted to become a doctor, I was confused. Those are two different types of schooling. (Why would he even want to do both?)

I mean there are people who do both but it is not common. It is possible that he meant he wanted to get a doctorate in nursing but who knows. It is also possible he is someone who thinks that nursing isn't good enough and that he needs to be a doctor.

[silverspoons]

14 minutes ago, discoprincessthe2 said:

When Keith said he was in nursing school (which I assumed was going to lead to him becoming an registered nurse), but he said he wanted to become a doctor, I was confused. Those are two different types of schooling. (Why would he even want to do both?)

Correct. I hope he becomes a nurse and stops and finds a job and settles down for a bit like buying a home starting a family (assuming the marriage works out) . Then he is open to become a NP or nurse anesthetist that make excellent money.  A nurse can apply to medical school, as long as you have taken the required classes for admission (might need extra chemistry or math) , but it is still at least 7 years for a nurse to become a doctor if choosing a the quickest PCP track. 

Being a doctor in 2019 is not what it used to be. I know two doctors who went back to school to become nurse practioners! Shocking turn but NP work normal hours, little to no call and have a set salary, they don;t have to pay their own malpractice insurance. 

[Ilovepie]

Just now, aphroditewitch said:

It wasn't just about Derek's smoking. It was about him being verbally abusive and shouting at Heather to the point that she was in tears.

Maybe I am mis-remembering, but I thought that happened because she told him to stop smoking. Either way, he got a sympathetic edit and she got a bitch edit, and a lot the discussion revolved around the "smoking" (assuming it was pot) being a deal breaker, depending on your feelings about it. That is certainly not happening this time, to the point that one of the "experts" gave a verbal smack down to the offending party multiples times (if you count Unfiltered). Kate is definitely more sympathetic than Heather ever was so I don't think people would fault her for leaving.

[aphroditewitch]

3 minutes ago, Ilovepie said:

Maybe I am mis-remembering, but I thought that happened because she told him to stop smoking. Either way, he got a sympathetic edit and she got a bitch edit, and a lot the discussion revolved around the "smoking" (assuming it was pot) being a deal breaker, depending on your feelings about it. That is certainly not happening this time, to the point that one of the "experts" gave a verbal smack down to the offending party multiples times (if you count Unfiltered). Kate is definitely more sympathetic than Heather ever was so I don't think people would fault her for leaving.

So? It doesn't matter why he decided to shout at her. The point is that he behaved that way and she was done. If it had just been the smoking, even if they had split, it probably wouldn't have been so contentious. But there was always more to it that production thought they had edited out but they still kept in him shouting at her  on the honeymoon but people gave him a pass on. Just taking a quick look at his twitter tells me everything I need to know about his character and he has just gotten worse as a person.  

[humbleopinion]

Whatever happened between Heather and Derek took a back seat to the strong arm tactics the show was trying to enforce.

 It was not about the bad match "the experts"made but the lengths the show was going to do to force Heather to stay on the show and not give her an out...

 They arrive back to the US at night and she was to be at the production office in the morning to talk to a muckity muck from the production company. She was not cowed.

 Became Team Heather because the cast should be allowed to call it quits if they feel strongly about their mismatch....she didn't cave and basically gave them THs all shot in one session  to use for her segments for the rest of the season.

The clip of Derek walking his little dog with sad background music was played in every subsequent episode as filler for his segments...

Edited January 31, 2019 by humbleopinion

[gonecrackers]

1 hour ago, Ilovepie said:

5 hours ago, gonecrackers said:

Yes she could pull a Heather, but look at how people treated Heather.

True, but it was never clear what Derek was smoking, and Heather was pretty unlikeable even before she left him. In this case, we know exactly what Luke did and he is being largely reviled. I think more people are flabbergasted that she is choosing to stay with him when common sense says leave his sorry ass and don't look back.

I didn't actually post the original quote, so not sure this happened, but I was/am totally team Heather, but that was a different season.

Luke & Kate are a match made in hell & Luke is satan's minion.

15 minutes ago, humbleopinion said:

Whatever happened between Heather and Derek took a back seat to the strong arm tactics the show was trying to enforce that made it not about the bad match "the experts"made but the lengths the show was going to do to force Heather to stay on the show and not give her an out...

 Became Team Heather because the cast should be allowed to call it quits if they feel strongly about their mismatch....she didn't cave and basically gave them THs to use for her segments

The clip of Derek walking his little dog with sad background music was played in every subsequent episode as filler for his segments...

Right.  You don't have to stay, but if you choose to leave the marriage "experiment" you will get the bitch edit.  I say who cares. It's better than being mistreated by some ass wipe for several weeks. Seems Kate thinks it's worth it, but, we'll see, because this could still end early.

Edited January 31, 2019 by gonecrackers

[aphroditewitch]

1 minute ago, gonecrackers said:

Right.  You don't have to stay, but if you choose to leave the marriage "experiment" you will get the bitch edit.  I say who cares. It's better than being mistreated by some ass wipe for several weeks. Seems Kate thinks it's worth it, but, we'll see, because this could still end early.

The "bitch edit" can lead to very real issues that go beyond the show. It can cause employment issues and death threats are a big deal. Unfortunately these shows are allowed to get away with these contracts where the participants have little recourse. 

[Ilovepie]

1 hour ago, aphroditewitch said:

So? It doesn't matter why he decided to shout at her. The point is that he behaved that way and she was done. If it had just been the smoking, even if they had split, it probably wouldn't have been so contentious. But there was always more to it that production thought they had edited out but they still kept in him shouting at her  on the honeymoon but people gave him a pass on. Just taking a quick look at his twitter tells me everything I need to know about his character and he has just gotten worse as a person.  

My point was not so much about wanting to debate Derek/Heather again, but more that I don't think Kate would be treated crappy if she chose to leave. I always thought Derek was an ass and I had no problem with Heather walking. There are others that I think should have done the same (hello Sonia!), and Kate is one of them. I don't think she will get much if any blow back for leaving that awful bearded asshole.

[configdotsys]

1 hour ago, aphroditewitch said:

I mean there are people who do both but it is not common. It is possible that he meant he wanted to get a doctorate in nursing but who knows. It is also possible he is someone who thinks that nursing isn't good enough and that he needs to be a doctor.

This is a guy that is 100% content with laying on the couch all day and night and eating home cooked meals prepared for him. I think he signed up for one of those medical assistant type programs because he needed to find a career. I see nothing wrong with that at all. If he was living with grandma who was cooking and cleaning for him, whatever he earned was all his to spend so he was probably very content with that arrangement. Now he has a potential problem because he was hooked up with a driven woman.

This page has the requirements for a PA dialysis tech:

http://dialysistechniciancentral.com/pennsylvania-dialysis-technician-requirements/

An RN program is insanely rigorous and his couch potato style does not fit that at all. It sounds like they are trying to make his career sound better for the show because Kristine is very driven. 

[gonecrackers]

56 minutes ago, aphroditewitch said:

The "bitch edit" can lead to very real issues that go beyond the show. It can cause employment issues and death threats are a big deal. Unfortunately these shows are allowed to get away with these contracts where the participants have little recourse. 

Apparently, they're all crazy enough to believe it's worth the risk.

In this case I don't think after what Luke said they could pull off a "bitch edit" on Kate. She's good to go but is choosing to stay, & that in itself is making her look dim.

[Kdawg82]

Yes. Clearly Luke is getting the co**sucker edit. Poor guy. 

🙄

[aphroditewitch]

1 hour ago, Ilovepie said:

My point was not so much about wanting to debate Derek/Heather again, but more that I don't think Kate would be treated crappy if she chose to leave. I always thought Derek was an ass and I had no problem with Heather walking. There are others that I think should have done the same (hello Sonia!), and Kate is one of them. I don't think she will get much if any blow back for leaving that awful bearded asshole.

But this all assumes that the audience would have been shown the scene of Kate talking about what Luke said to her. If she had left, that never would have been shown. And if Kate were to bring it up after the season was over, people would just have insisted that she was a liar. Sonia actually did leave at first, but what pressured into coming back

21 minutes ago, gonecrackers said:

Apparently, they're all crazy enough to believe it's worth the risk.

In this case I don't think after what Luke said they could pull off a "bitch edit" on Kate. She's good to go but is choosing to stay, & that in itself is making her look dim.

We never would have known what he said if Kate left. The production team never would have allowed it. And a reality show can make anyone look like a bitch or an asshole. A person could be the nicest person in the world but with all the footage they capture and the use of Frankenbiting, they can create situations and conversations that never even happened to make that person look terrible. 

[Gem 10]

On 1/30/2019 at 10:49 AM, Shieldmaiden said:

And he’s so over the top about everything - When she pointed to the horrible poker picture and asked about taking it, he said something like “I have to come back here to work, and I don’t want it to be so empty that I would want to kill myself” so no picture = suicide? So beyond what I would consider a normal comment...

Well, now we know why he needed to get matched up, and I am totally shocked that three experts didn’t see in conversation and inspection that he was hyper, loud and off kilter.  They had hundreds of applicants and they pick A.J. and Puke?

[Ilovepie]

6 minutes ago, aphroditewitch said:

We never would have known what he said if Kate left. The production team never would have allowed it. And a reality show can make anyone look like a bitch or an asshole.

I see what you mean, but we haven't actually been shown any footage of him saying it and it's just her word that he said it. They would have to at least ask her why she is leaving him and I don't see how they could spin that. Also, she is so vacant I'm not sure there is any footage of her doing anything other than staring glassy eyed or giggling. She just doesn't give off bitch vibes, whereas Heather did from the get go with her icy stare and uptight personality. Is that fair? Absolutely not, but it is what it is.....

[aphroditewitch]

Just now, Ilovepie said:

I see what you mean, but we haven't actually been shown any footage of him saying it and it's just her word that he said it. They would have to at least ask her why she is leaving him and I don't see how they could spin that. Also, she is so vacant I'm not sure there is any footage of her doing anything other than staring glassy eyed or giggling. She just doesn't give off bitch vibes, whereas Heather did from the get go with her icy stare and uptight personality. Is that fair? Absolutely not, but it is what it is.....

Except Luke later confirmed that he said it when meeting with Pastor Cal. Something else we never would have seen. if Kate had left.  And with Frankenbiting, they can make it up by splicing together conversations that had nothing to do with what happened. They could have taken the footage of her talking about smoking and combined that with something else. Reality shows do this all the time. They do it to create conflicts that never happened, hookups that never happened, etc. 

[gonecrackers]

33 minutes ago, aphroditewitch said:

We never would have known what he said if Kate left. The production team never would have allowed it. And a reality show can make anyone look like a bitch or an asshole. A person could be the nicest person in the world but with all the footage they capture and the use of Frankenbiting, they can create situations and conversations that never even happened to make that person look terrible. 

No, she should've left after she revealed what he said, & after the talk with Cal where Luke verified what he said, Cal expressed his indignation & offered them each an out. Cover all bases, then split. Instead she tells Cal she's "there" being attracted to Luke, & has hope for their marriage (insert my huge, almost painful eye roll & loud sigh here). So now she gets whatever is to come because that is what she has chosen, & can sit on Unfiltered looking like a sad, whipped puppy. She's a fool IMO.

Edited February 1, 2019 by gonecrackers

[aphroditewitch]

3 minutes ago, gonecrackers said:

No, she should've left after she revealed what he said, & after the talk with Cal where Luke verified what he said, Cal expressed his indignation & offered them each an out. Cover all bases, then split. Instead she tells Cal she's "there" being attracted to Luke, & has hope for their marriage (insert my huge, almost painful eye roll & loud sigh here). So now she gets whatever is to come because that is what she has chosen, & can sit on Unfiltered looking like a sad, whipped puppy. She's a fool IMO.

There is no way for Kate to have covered all bases. The show doesn't air until months later after it is filmed and edited down to create storylines. She can say whatever she wants to the camera and to Pastor Cal, it does not matter, the producers have the final say on what gets aired. The same with Unfiltered, she can put it all out there on Unfiltered, but they never have to show it. 

It is easy to criticize and claim she is a fool, but people essentially sign their lives away when they agree to be on these shows. The participants own nothing. They don't own the footage and they don't have  say in what gets aired. Read what Irene McGee has said about her experience on the Real World Seattle season. She thought she had her bases covered too and that there was no way for the show to change the reason that she was leaving and she was wrong. 

[gonecrackers]

3 minutes ago, aphroditewitch said:

There is no way for Kate to have covered all bases. The show doesn't air until months later after it is filmed and edited down to create storylines. She can say whatever she wants to the camera and to Pastor Cal, it does not matter, the producers have the final say on what gets aired. The same with Unfiltered, she can put it all out there on Unfiltered, but they never have to show it. 

It is easy to criticize and claim she is a fool, but people essentially sign their lives away when they agree to be on these shows. The participants own nothing. They don't own the footage and they don't have  say in what gets aired. Read what Irene McGee has said about her experience on the Real World Seattle season. She thought she had her bases covered too and that there was no way for the show to change the reason that she was leaving and she was wrong. 

Then basically if they sign up they're fucked, so they shouldn't sign up. Done, life goes on.

[aphroditewitch]

1 minute ago, gonecrackers said:

Then basically if they sign up they're fucked, so they shouldn't sign up. Done, life goes on.

Or people could just stop watching reality shows. Producers do it for the audience. They probably read this board. Reality show producers love to make women in particular look bad. So the more people attack Kate, the more it fuels the genre. I refuse to play into that when I know that is what these people are doing. Kate is not the problem here the production staff is the problem. 

[SabineElisabeth]

2 hours ago, aphroditewitch said:

The "bitch edit" can lead to very real issues that go beyond the show. It can cause employment issues and death threats are a big deal. Unfortunately these shows are allowed to get away with these contracts where the participants have little recourse. 

For the record, the reason these shows "get away" with these contracts is because people desperate to be on the tee vee are willing to sign them.  If the contract as a whole or in part is either against public policy and/or unconscionable, it (or the offending parts) can be unenforceable and/or void.  I can't say this for sure. as I have no reliable information or knowledge that weighs one way or the other, but my sense is that the production companies generally have considerably greater bargaining power than the participants.  However, what is being bargained for here is also not even close to an essential service (such as internet service, air travel, mortgage loans, etc).  Thus, unless the contract or some of its terms rise to the level of being against public policy/unconscionable, it's expected that people who don't like the terms of the contract for the show will just not sign the contract and not be on the show.  Because, to be clear, nobody needs to be on the tee vee.    (Sorry, taking my attorney hat off and returning to reality tv fan now).  ;-)

Edited February 1, 2019 by SabineElisabeth

[gonecrackers]

2 minutes ago, aphroditewitch said:

Or people could just stop watching reality shows. Producers do it for the audience. They probably read this board. Reality show producers love to make women in particular look bad. So the more people attack Kate, the more it fuels the genre. I refuse to play into that when I know that is what these people are doing. Kate is not the problem here the production staff is the problem. 

People on the board here can snark or comment on anyone on the show. That's what the boards are for & we are all allowed a voice.  No one is forced to watch the show, read this board, or participate.

Edited February 1, 2019 by gonecrackers

[SabineElisabeth]

9 minutes ago, aphroditewitch said:

Or people could just stop watching reality shows. Producers do it for the audience. They probably read this board. Reality show producers love to make women in particular look bad. So the more people attack Kate, the more it fuels the genre. I refuse to play into that when I know that is what these people are doing. Kate is not the problem here the production staff is the problem. 

 

6 minutes ago, aphroditewitch said:

And I'm using my voice to point out the truth of what goes on. I'm not forcing you to like that truth.

I would need a lot more information to say that reality show producers love to make women in particular look bad.  I'm sure there is some research or data compilations out there, but I haven't seen anything myself.  What I am comfortable saying for sure is that producers love to make shows that make money, i.e. attract advertising $$, which is driven in large part by the number of people watching.  So, what gets people to watch a show?  I think if you can find a way to identify that in a factual, provable way, then you have a fact-based answer as to what kind of tv producers love to produce.

Edited February 1, 2019 by SabineElisabeth

[SabineElisabeth]

3 minutes ago, aphroditewitch said:

I'm quite certain that I never suggested that anyone needs to be on television. Of course anyone who doesn't like the contract doesn't have to sign it or be on the show. However, society has a strong victim blaming complex, people like to think something can't happen to them. And when it does, they realize that all the people who came before them and talked about the editing process, were right. Anyone can be made into a saint or into an ass with editing. 

I'm not sure I have a ton of sympathy for the "blaming" if it's directed towards someone who is a "victim" of bad editing on a reality tv show, but YMMV!  ;-)

Edited February 1, 2019 by SabineElisabeth

[aphroditewitch]

2 minutes ago, SabineElisabeth said:

 

I would need a lot more information to say that reality show producers love to make women in particular look bad.  Maybe there is some out there, but I haven't seen anything myself.  What I am comfortable saying for sure is that producers love to make shows that make money, i.e. attract advertising $$, which is driven in large part by the number of people watching.  So, what gets people to watch a show?  I think if you can find a way to identify that in a factual, provable way, then you have a fact-based answer as to what kind of tv producers love to produce.

https://www.vulture.com/2013/11/real-world-seattle-irene-slap-her-story.html

https://www.theguardian.com/culture/2018/aug/28/why-is-reality-tv-so-obsessed-with-the-angry-black-woman

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/arts-and-entertainment/wp/2013/12/03/that-hoax-isnt-funny-anymore-elan-gale-and-the-problem-of-reality-online/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.10fdcba43f5b

https://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2012/10/21/are-reality-shows-worse-than-other-tv/reality-tv-exploits-women-minorities-and-children

[Gem 10]

41 minutes ago, gonecrackers said:

No, she should've left after she revealed what he said, & after the talk with Cal where Luke verified what he said, Cal expressed his indignation & offered them each an out. Cover all bases, then split. Instead she tells Cal she's "there" being attracted to Luke, & has hope for their marriage (insert my huge, almost painful eye roll & loud sigh here). So now she gets whatever is to come because that is what she has chosen, & can sit on Unfiltered looking like a sad, whipped puppy. She's a fool IMO.

Desparation.  I don’t feel sorry for her.  He did a 180 so people wouldn’t hate him.  Now, she deserves what she gets.  I’ve never seen anyone so nieve.  She should have left after he said that.  If this show is scripted, what’s the sense of watching and wasting time on this blog?

[gonecrackers]

3 minutes ago, Gem 10 said:

Desparation.  I don’t feel sorry for her.  He did a 180 so people wouldn’t hate him.  Now, she deserves what she gets.  I’ve never seen anyone so nieve.  She should have left after he said that.  If this show is scripted, what’s the sense of watching and wasting time on this blog?

Agreed.

Um, I thought for an entertaining escape, but...

Edited February 1, 2019 by gonecrackers

[Gem 10]

8 hours ago, Neurochick said:

When did he encourage them to stick with it?  He gave both of them an out.  "Do you want to continue?" he asked.  Both of them said yes.  They're both adults, we don't live in a nanny state, so there's nothing more the man can do.  Pastor Cal told Luke, "either man up or get out."  Luke could have said, "then I'm out" but he didn't.  Neither Luke nor Kate are children, if they want to make fools of themselves, they have that right.  

They both should have left.  When they are on I fast forward.  That’s how much I can’t stand both of them.  And, any woman that stays with that PO S deserves what they get.  Zero.

[Gem 10]

7 hours ago, dirtypop90 said:

Well we know these job titles they give them are fuzzy.  Regarding Keith, my friend in Philly told me in some places dialysis tech's get paid by the hour, and she knows some who make under 30k.  So if Keith doesn't get a lot of hrs, he might 20k-30k, so it's believable Kristine makes much more.  Apparently, Will isn't a financial analyst and his job is more akin to client relations.  I was curious after the 50/50 discussion and seeing his home, so I went poking around the web.

I think they are all full of shit.

[Gem 10]

56 minutes ago, gonecrackers said:

Agreed.

Um, I thought for an entertaining escape, but...

I don’t like being taken for a fool.  There’s a lot of time wasted here.

[Crazy Bird Lady]

13 hours ago, Crazy Bird Lady said:

Clearly, 'Dr. Blondie' only intervenes when it's a man that she's attracted to who is being emotionally torn down by the spouse's "abusive language"!

Edited February 1, 2019 by Crazy Bird Lady

[LuvMyShows]

On 1/31/2019 at 12:12 AM, Yeah No said:

 I think Jasmine wants to be the more dominant one in her relationship judging from the subtle ways she keeps putting him "in his place", but Will is not jazzed by that dynamic which is why he is keeping his distance from her.  That's not his thing.

I completely disagree.  Many times she has expressed desire for Will to man up in pretty much every way possible...financially, socially, protector-ishly, and definitely sexually.  I think that the Franklin man she thinks she wants is a take-charge man, in every possible way.  Her putting him in his place isn't because that place is where she wants him...she's calling him out on being in that place, because she wants him in some other place (meaning, taking charge)!

On 1/30/2019 at 10:37 PM, configdotsys said:

There is something about Stephanie that irks me. She doesn't come across as very feminine to me and I don't say that in a mean way as I'm a Kristy McNichol in Family kind of gal myself. She has a hardness about her and sometimes her attempts at humor seem forced like she's trying to fit into the conversation. I think perhaps that may be the reason she

Yes she does.  She has a 'rode hard, put away wet' look, that to me looks alcohol-driven.