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The Marvel Cinematic Universe: The Avengers, etc.

vb68

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Spartan Girl

Spartan Girl

(edited)
On 5/13/2023 at 4:50 PM, Dani said:

That’s true. He revealed that was is plan earlier this month. 

But Gunn wouldn’t have killed off Gamora in such an insulting way that validated Thanos’ “love” for her. And he sure as hell would have given us a more genuine love declaration between Peter and Gamora after meticulously building up their slow-burn romance. Vol 2 left it as Gamora subtly acknowledging “okay there’s something between us but we aren’t quite there yet”, but in IW all of a sudden it’s  “I love you more than anything in this life”?! Even for an About to Die Love Declaration, it felt way too OOC for her.

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Perfect Xero
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Just think, Civil War could have been avoided if Steve and Tony had realized that both of their best friends were named James.

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3 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

But Gunn wouldn’t have killed off Gamora in such an insulting way that validated Thanos’ “love” for her. And he sure as hell would have given us a more genuine love declaration between Peter and Gamora after meticulously building up their slow-burn romance. Vol 2 left it as Gamora subtly acknowledging “okay there’s something between us but we aren’t quite there yet”, but in IW all of a sudden it’s  “I love you more than anything in this life”?! Even for an About to Die Love Declaration, it felt way too OOC for her.

I mostly like Gunn as a writer and a director but I don’t have as much faith in him as you. If Gamora had died when he planned I would 100% expect it to be a fridging to motivate Peter. I have massive issues with how Gamora was handled in Infinity War and Endgame but I also have issues with Gunn’a writing of women. All the Drax and Mantis parts of GoTG2 really taint my overall opinion of him despite thinking he is a brilliant writer and director over all.  

tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

'I'm grateful for my firing from Marvel': James Gunn on OneMan
JOSEPHINE GRIVEA 4 MAY 2023
https://www.oneman.gr/synentefxeis/eimai-evgnomon-gia-tin-apolisi-mou-apo-ti-marvel-o-james-gunn-sto-oneman/ 

Quote

"My only role at Marvel from now on is to be a good friend of Kevin Feige and there for him whenever he needs me." This is what James Gunn quickly stated in OneMan, in a room in Le Bristol in Paris where we were for the European Gala Event of Guardians of the Galaxy Vol.3.
*  *  *
The MCU has become huge as a franchise. Do you feel responsible for what you present?
Gunn: I feel the same responsibility I would feel anyway, even if I made a million-dollar independent film. I put my 100% and make sure there is nothing left unused on the table. I'm doing all the preparation I need to do to make the best story possible. Then my work stops and the rest begins.
*  *  *
Marvel and DC look like competitors, but how do you see it?
Gunn: While I was doing movies at Marvel, maybe a DC movie would come out and it wouldn't get good reviews. As a competitive guy that I am, my tendency in those moments was to say, "yes!". But Kevin said to me, look, we don't want bad superhero movies out there. They spoil the piazza. If good movies come out in general, then they push people to go to theaters. Especially right now in between. If bad movies come out, they deter people from cinema. So I'd rather see good movies from both studios.

And maybe less?
Gunn: Yes, I think it's worth thinking about the idea of having less. Or generally less content. Because we also have the series, and so the experience becomes loaded for the audience.
*  *  *
Looking back at everything that happened with your tweets, how do you think about it now?
Gunn: In a sense it was a terribly painful time, and there are times when I remember it when I say, "Oh my God, why were you so stupid?" On the other hand, I am also grateful for that time, because I think it came at a time in my life when I needed it. I had forgotten why I make movies. What was important to me. I also didn't know how much my people loved me. I was distracted by that. When this happened, I was suddenly the hard-working person, who could rely on his status and fame to get love. Suddenly I realized that they had the most wonderful people by my side. My partner who is now my wife, my parents, Chris Pratt, Dave Bautista, Karen and Pom. Everyone supported me. You sometimes think that people love you because you have power, but in this case it just wasn't the case. They loved me because they just loved me for me. He was there no matter what. Whatever the outcome. They didn't support me because I make movies. This has been a huge life lesson for me and I am truly grateful.

Edited by tv echo
swanpride

swanpride

I have to agree with the assessment that Gunn isn't really all that good in writing women. Let's be honest here, the best written women in the GotG franchise ended up being Nebula, and she had her best moments in Endgame. A lot can be said about the way Gamora as a sacrifice was handled, but I don't really think that it is as much of a deal breaker as some people think it is. Because for me, it is a misconception that love and abusive relationships are exclusive. Love isn't this perfect thing a lot of people see in it, most versions if it are inherently toxic. Or, to put it differently, a problematic love is not the outlier, but achieving a love which isn't problematic is the goal we need to strife for. 

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swanpride

swanpride

(edited)

None of them got a proper arc either. Gamora's arc is still entirely informed by Peter's needs, Mantis

Spoiler

decision to leave

comes kind of out of nowhere because nothing really happens which is particularly different from what happened before and Nebula is basically just hanging around and telling everyone they are idiots. 

Edited by swanpride
Raja

Raja

47 minutes ago, swanpride said:

None of them got a proper arc either. Gamora's arc is still entirely informed by Peter's needs, Mantis

  Hide contents

decision to leave

comes kind of out of nowhere because nothing really happens which is particularly different from what happened before and Nebula is basically just hanging around and telling everyone they are idiots. 

I guess you can say that Mantis had the holiday special and Nebula had Avengers Infinity War/Endgame as their moments to shine. With such a large cast all characters can't get their own spotlight in every two hours.

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Cobalt Stargazer

Cobalt Stargazer

On 5/18/2023 at 1:48 AM, swanpride said:

A lot can be said about the way Gamora as a sacrifice was handled, but I don't really think that it is as much of a deal breaker as some people think it is. Because for me, it is a misconception that love and abusive relationships are exclusive. Love isn't this perfect thing a lot of people see in it, most versions if it are inherently toxic. Or, to put it differently, a problematic love is not the outlier, but achieving a love which isn't problematic is the goal we need to strife for. 

Perhaps, but this feels like an entirely different conversation. Right after Infinity War happened, someone posted that 'the award for the worst way to find out your dad loves you goes to Gamora', and I don't think that's unfair. Thanos also told Nebula that he didn't even think she was worth the effort to kill, so does that mean that if he loved her he'd have killed her too? Yes, in real life abusers say 'I love you' all the time, but conventional wisdom is that we should reject that, not accept it as truth. There's some argument in there (maybe) that Red Skull was deceived, that because Thanos believed he truly loved Gamora, her death sealed the deal as far as him getting what he wanted. Let's be honest, in life Johann Schmidt was only a reliable narrator in the sense that he was a Nazi lunatic who got even crazier when he started his quest to possess the Tesseract. Who knows what he thought love entailed. And I don't believe the Stones themselves were ever considered to be sentient, not in the way we think of it.

I know, I know, I'm wildly theorizing. Leave me be, it's been a long week today. 🙂

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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

Iron Man: 15 Years Later with Kevin Feige and Jon Favreau
Marvel Entertainment    May 24, 2023


Elizabeth Olsen talks LOVE & DEATH, WANDAVISION, advice for Marvel actors: Happy Sad Confused
Josh Horowitz    May 25, 2023

Quote

05:24 Aubrey Plaza/Ruining Infinity War
*  *  *
23:08 10 years in the MCU
*  *  *
25:49 Doctor Strange: Multiverse of Madness
27:45 Daniel Craig in Doctor Strange?
29:24 Advice for actors joining the MCU

Edited by tv echo
Cobalt Stargazer

Cobalt Stargazer

As per the article, any deviation from the script could be considered strike-breaking under the rules of the Guild. Reynolds is a writer on the third movie, was given a writer's credit during Deadpool's last outing based on how much dialogue he improvised, but due to the strike he won't be allowed to alter the dialogue on the fly at least until this situation is resolved. It's confusing.

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Guest

Guest

It really shouldn’t be that much of a hinderance. Assuming the strike has ended by then, the mask means he can ad lib during adr after the shoot as finished. Most of the dialogue with a mask already needs to be redone. 

The inability to rewrite everyone else’s lines if needed is probably going to be more of a factor. 

SeanC

SeanC

On 5/24/2023 at 11:16 PM, Cobalt Stargazer said:

Perhaps, but this feels like an entirely different conversation. Right after Infinity War happened, someone posted that 'the award for the worst way to find out your dad loves you goes to Gamora', and I don't think that's unfair. Thanos also told Nebula that he didn't even think she was worth the effort to kill, so does that mean that if he loved her he'd have killed her too? Yes, in real life abusers say 'I love you' all the time, but conventional wisdom is that we should reject that, not accept it as truth. There's some argument in there (maybe) that Red Skull was deceived, that because Thanos believed he truly loved Gamora, her death sealed the deal as far as him getting what he wanted. Let's be honest, in life Johann Schmidt was only a reliable narrator in the sense that he was a Nazi lunatic who got even crazier when he started his quest to possess the Tesseract. Who knows what he thought love entailed. And I don't believe the Stones themselves were ever considered to be sentient, not in the way we think of it.

I know, I know, I'm wildly theorizing. Leave me be, it's been a long week today. 🙂

Thanos "loves" Gamora insofar as he feels an emotional attachment to her and is sad at her death. That's all that the Soul Stone cares about. It's not framed as evidence that he's a good person or whatever, it's just a measure of his willingness to give up something that matters to him personally.

If you're defining love as a healthy relationship, arguably it's impossible to ever meet the test's criteria since being willing to kill the person in question for your own advancement inherently a negative.

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Kel Varnsen

Kel Varnsen

18 hours ago, Cobalt Stargazer said:

Excuse me while I swallow my own fist, because dear God, not again.....
 

 

Cool. I love the Evil Dead movies, and Spider-man 2 is easily a top tier super hero movie for me, even to this day. Sure his Dr strange wasn't great but there were some cool parts, and I would way rather watch that again than say The Eternals.

Plus when I think about the Secret Wars comic storyline and what I know about it, Raimi is absolutely the one director will probably know better than to put Peter Parker in that stupid black costume.

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Kel Varnsen

Kel Varnsen

5 hours ago, swanpride said:

Raimi's style simply doesn't fit the MCU.

You could say the same thing about Ryan Coogler. But personally I like how different movies have different visual styles. Everything looking the same and everyone sounding similar would be much more of an issue for me if they continued that.

5 hours ago, swanpride said:

Nevermind his inability to handle female characters with even an ounce of dignity. 

Do you really think what happened with Wanda was his decision? He didn't write the script and from what I under of how the MCU is run, the major movie plot points are decided on a a much higher level than the director or even screen writers. 

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Spartan Girl

Spartan Girl

(edited)
1 hour ago, Kel Varnsen said:

Do you really think what happened with Wanda was his decision? He didn't write the script and from what I under of how the MCU is run, the major movie plot points are decided on a a much higher level than the director or even screen writers. 

Oh, I don’t blame Raimi for everything that happened with Wanda: that’s mostly at Feige’s feet. But the whole Strange pining after Christine in all the universes? C’mon, it was the Spider-Man movies all over again…

Edited by Spartan Girl
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Guest

Guest

5 hours ago, Kel Varnsen said:

Do you really think what happened with Wanda was his decision? He didn't write the script and from what I under of how the MCU is run, the major movie plot points are decided on a a much higher level than the director or even screen writers. 

Wanda was so massively mishandled in MoM that I think everyone (except Elizabeth Olson) gets a share of the blame. The major plot points were bad but most of the little decision were also bad. Who knows, maybe if he had actually cared about Wanda as a character enough to watch or read the WandaVision script he could have made it better. 

With a different director I might be more forgiving but Rami did write the Tobey Maguire Spider-Man movies which completely failed it’s female characters. 

Cobalt Stargazer

Cobalt Stargazer

7 hours ago, Kel Varnsen said:

Do you really think what happened with Wanda was his decision? He didn't write the script and from what I under of how the MCU is run, the major movie plot points are decided on a a much higher level than the director or even screen writers. 

I put at least half of it at his feet. No, he didn't write the script, but I've seen his other work, including Army of Darkness. The Darkhold is the Necronomicon, for all intents and purposes, and either that was part of what drew him to the project or....what? At best, he didn't watch all of WandaVision, so he didn't know this was going to be a whole-ass retread of something that had already happened, something Wanda had come out on the other side of*. The rewrites certainly didn't help, because I know that Elizabeth Olsen said she quit reading those at one point because she knew there'd just be more changes later, but I do think Raimi has a particular esthetic as a director.

*"But, but, but, she brainwashed people and got away with it, so of course she'd go on doing bad things!" And I would have believed in the outrage if that loop hadn't turned into a mixtape of "Zemo's a great dancer, so it's not that bad that Bucky helped him escape from prison." Raimi can direct Thunderbolts** when it comes back into production for those who really want him here, since between unstable murderer John Walker, child trafficker Alexei Shostakov, and terrorist enabler Bucky Barnes he'd have plenty of fertile ground for a heel turn. They can be a trio of suck for the others to band together against, then dispatch.

**I'm kidding, I wouldn't want him anywhere near Yelena's next project either. He'd skip over those idiots entirely and do something stupid with her instead.

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Guest

Given how many of the superheroes going into the Secret Wars are women, I will be extremely apprehensive is Raimi is the director. It’s not that I dislike him as a director but I don’t think he can pull off adequately servicing multiple characters in a way that is necessary for an Avengers movie being made today.

So far the MCU has proven to me that when the directors are themselves diverse, women and characters of color are being handled more thoughtfully so it does really concern me that my point of view will be an afterthought. As much as I have enjoyed past Marvel movies, I’m past the point of being okay with that. 

Enigma X

Enigma X

On 5/27/2023 at 12:52 AM, Cobalt Stargazer said:

Excuse me while I swallow my own fist, because dear God, not again.....
 

 

@Cobalt Stargazer My thumbs up is that I agree with you. I have not been enamored with any of the Marvel directors most fans love. This includes Raimi, Gunn, and Waititi. I am a complete MCU fan girl, but whatevs...

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swanpride

swanpride

Oh, I actually dislike Raimi as a director..his style is too cartoney for my taste and while it might sound out that I consider this a drawback in a comic book movie, well, there is a difference between, say, Gunns brand of cartoney and Raimis's...the main difference being that the latter ones style is kind of stupid. 

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tv echo

tv echo

FYI...

Next on Disney+: June 2023
May 15, 2023
https://press.disneyplus.com/news/next-on-disney-plus-june-2023

Quote

Friday, June 16
*  *  *
Stan Lee - Premiere
From Marvel Studios and acclaimed director David Gelb, "STAN LEE" is the official documentary film about Stan “The Man” Lee and his rise to influence in the world of comic books and pop culture. Tracing his life from his upbringing as Stanley Lieber to the rise of Marvel Comics, "STAN LEE" tells the story of Stan Lee’s life, career, and legacy in his own words through personal archive material.

BetterButter

BetterButter

(edited)

Blade previously dated on 9/6/24 moves to 2/14/25 

Fantastic Four previously dated on 2/14/25 moves to 5/2/25 

 Untitled Deadpool Movie previously dated on 11/8/24 moves to 5/3/24 

Avengers: The Kang Dynasty previously dated on 5/2/25 moves to 5/1/26 

Avengers: Secret Wars previously dated 5/1/26 is now dated on 5/7/27 

Edited by BetterButter
Kel Varnsen

Kel Varnsen

1 hour ago, Morrigan2575 said:

I thought they had agreed on mone, the use of AI was the sticking point...which is a scary thought

The AI thing is weird to be fighting over since it could be used negatively by both sides. Of course a studio not hiring writers and just using AI scripts would be a problem. But so would a writer hired to write a script, then getting an AI program to do it for them and passing it off as their own. Has the WGA proposed any rules to keep that from happening?

tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

All of the delayed MCU movie and series release dates...

New Captain America Movie, Thunderbolts Team-Up and Avengers: Kang Dynasty All Pushed Back
BY MATT WEBB MITOVICH   JUNE 13, 2023 
https://tvline.com/news/captain-america-brave-new-world-release-date-delay-avengers-kang-dynasty-1234999596/ 

Edited by tv echo
Kel Varnsen

Kel Varnsen

(edited)
9 hours ago, Anduin said:

Have Eric Bana or Ed Norton ever talked about Ruffalo's success in the role? I never saw Norton's movie, but I remember enjoying Bana's Hulk. Not enough to see it again, but I liked it at the time.

The big thing I remember about the Bana Hulk movie is the gamma poodle. The only stuff I really remember about Norton is the behind the scenes stuff and how he was hard to work with. He also had some level of script approval in his contract. It funny to think how back in 2008 he was probably the biggest star in either the Hulk or Iron Man (maybe it was Paltrow) and maybe the biggest/most bankable star in all the phase 1 movies (at least among the title characters, Portman was probably at least as big too).

Edited by Kel Varnsen
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Anduin

Anduin

35 minutes ago, Kel Varnsen said:

The big thing I remember about the Bana Hulk movie is the gamma poodle. The only stuff I really remember about Norton is the behind the scenes stuff and how he was hard to work with. He also had some level of script approval in his contract. It funny to think how back in 2008 he was probably the biggest star in either the Hulk or Iron Man (maybe it was Paltrow) and maybe the biggest/most bankable star in all the phase 1 movies (at least among the title characters, Portman was probably at least as big too).

I just remembered the joke around Bana's movie. Between the Green Destiny and Hulk, Ang Lee really likes green. Also, wasn't the villain defeated by him throwing a grenade at the Hulk, it bouncing off and killing him? Something like that.

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