Last Man Standing - General Discussion

[readster]

9 minutes ago, Skyfall said:

The sad thing is the ratings are steady so as long as they can make the money work (they can cause its killing it I'm syndicatation) it'll be back. I feel like the writers are out of ideas.

Not only are they out of ideas, but they are trying to rewrite history or characters to make the plots work. I agree, I can see another season happening, but the show has run out of steam. 

[Puffaroo]

OMG, the girls singing in church at the end was just *horrendous* -- honestly, they reminded me so much of the TV ads by local auto dealers, who all seem to employ shrill young women for shilling (or maybe shrilling).  Take it down half an octave, all the dogs in the neighborhood were barking!

The choir robes were ghastly, too.  Really, along with what everyone else is saying about this show, it has truly jumped the shark.

[readster]

4 hours ago, Puffaroo said:

OMG, the girls singing in church at the end was just *horrendous* -- honestly, they reminded me so much of the TV ads by local auto dealers, who all seem to employ shrill young women for shilling (or maybe shrilling).  Take it down half an octave, all the dogs in the neighborhood were barking!

The choir robes were ghastly, too.  Really, along with what everyone else is saying about this show, it has truly jumped the shark.

I agree and the pastor's "comedy" routine was bad too. This was an episode that was reaching everywhere to have a story and all of it failed badly. 

[Mabinogia]

34 minutes ago, Pegasaurus said:

With every episode, Vanessa reaches a new level of idiocy.  Her daughters are grown adults.  If they want to go to church, they'll go to church. But probably not that church.

I just watched a rerun, one of the Christmas ones I believe, where they were heading off to church and Vanessa wanted to just not go. They are so freaking inconsistent. Of course they were also letting Mandy dress like a hooker for church so I have a hard time believing church is all that sacred and special to them. Plus, Mike sleeps in church. So it's important to just be in the pew? Is that the lesson? It's not about the sermon, or honoring god or anything, just physically being present?

This was a terrible episode.

[readster]

22 hours ago, Mabinogia said:

I just watched a rerun, one of the Christmas ones I believe, where they were heading off to church and Vanessa wanted to just not go. They are so freaking inconsistent. Of course they were also letting Mandy dress like a hooker for church so I have a hard time believing church is all that sacred and special to them. Plus, Mike sleeps in church. So it's important to just be in the pew? Is that the lesson? It's not about the sermon, or honoring god or anything, just physically being present?

This was a terrible episode.

That's exactly it and when Vanessa was saying it was something she enjoyed doing when she was young. What? Since when has there every been a main emphasis on Vanessa's church going? I mean they constantly want Ryan to be so anti-church because: "how can you believe in something you can't see?" Yet when the Duck Dynasty guys were on, oh he's praying with everyone at dinner. The inconsistencies are horrible. I mean Ryan hates Christmas because his dad was never home, but he loves getting presents and eating candy and food. Yet this past Christmas he didn't make one complaint. That's another thing, they talk about Kyle's church, but have we ever in the course of 6 seasons ever seen him there?

[NYGirl]

I have been missing episodes lately and not even checking the DVR to see if they recorded.

There was one recently where Ryan was doing a podcast with Kyle.  My only comment is who the hell is styling Kristen?  Why are you putting those terrible dresses on her.  I think she's shortwaisted so that's not the type of dress for her.

[readster]

12 hours ago, NYGirl said:

I have been missing episodes lately and not even checking the DVR to see if they recorded.

There was one recently where Ryan was doing a podcast with Kyle.  My only comment is who the hell is styling Kristen?  Why are you putting those terrible dresses on her.  I think she's shortwaisted so that's not the type of dress for her.

Besides her outfits, they put her in a wig since she had her hair shaved underneath and they kept parting her hair and it look just horrible on her. She has looked like she has been either pregnant, too thin or too heavy in half the outfits they have put her in the last three years. I still can't get over those two uni-boob sweaters she was in last season. I think besides the writing, the wardrobe has given up on several of the actors. There was an outfit that Nancy Travis was wearing that tried to make her look like she was 28 again and while I still find Nancy a very attractive woman. The outfit made her look like someone having a midlife crisis. 

[Kel Varnsen]

On 04/03/2017 at 9:03 AM, readster said:

Besides her outfits, they put her in a wig since she had her hair shaved underneath and they kept parting her hair and it look just horrible on her. She has looked like she has been either pregnant, too thin or too heavy in half the outfits they have put her in the last three years. 

What is the deal with her? She looks like a completely different person than she did when she was on Grey's Anatomy? And not for the better. I don't understand, was it plastic surgery gone wrong, plus weight gain plus unfortunate hair?

Also that church episode was probably the worst epiosde of any sitcom i have seen in a very long time, possibly ever. Not funny at all. I thought the podcast storyline had potential, but there was no payoff. Kristen found out about it, and then he changed his tone. They didn't even bother having a scene where she confronts him. And the church plot was even worse. I imagine for religious people it could have been even worse, because like others have said, the idea of forcing or tricking people to go to church doesn't seem right. And i was realky hoping that Eve wouldn't fall for that stupid reverse psychology thing that got Mandy. Plus to top it off the stupid weiner kid Boyd showed up.

I am also curious if Tim Allen is actually a religious person. Did he discover religion in prison?

[readster]

1 hour ago, Kel Varnsen said:

What is the deal with her? She looks like a completely different person than she did when she was on Grey's Anatomy? And not for the better. I don't understand, was it plastic surgery gone wrong, plus weight gain plus unfortunate hair?

Also that church episode was probably the worst epiosde of any sitcom i have seen in a very long time, possibly ever. Not funny at all. I thought the podcast storyline had potential, but there was no payoff. Kristen found out about it, and then he changed his tone. They didn't even bother having a scene where she confronts him. And the church plot was even worse. I imagine for religious people it could have been even worse, because like others have said, the idea of forcing or tricking people to go to church doesn't seem right. And i was realky hoping that Eve wouldn't fall for that stupid reverse psychology thing that got Mandy. Plus to top it off the stupid weiner kid Boyd showed up.

I am also curious if Tim Allen is actually a religious person. Did he discover religion in prison?

No he just discovered that The Republican Party can do no wrong, EVER and the Democratic Party is EVIL! no matter what. Yet, Liberals and environmentalists are complete MORONS! Why they made Ryan a left wing idiot vegan who finds something wrong with everything, even where your shoelaces are made. Because it's money and evil!

[readster]

I'm not sure why the writers think that as soon as Vanessa gets a good standing on anything, they have to have either Mike or Ed tear it all down. Not to mention, WHY THE HELL DOES SHE ALWAYS TURN TO RYAN? Especially when he was one of the main reasons she quick her job at the energy company along with Eve's stupid classmates, who are never mentioned EVER! This is only the 2nd time they have mentioned that Ryan has a degree in History and since he got certified to homeschool Boyd. Now, Vanessa figures out he should have been a teacher himself, which several people have said, including me since day 1. Of course, it has to turn into: Mike vs. Ryan's political views again. I also like how Mike said that during the Regan years America was at it's financial best. Umm... no. He had to lift the debt ceiling almost 8 times he was very anti-communist (which they got that right) he had to deal with a very hard time on the economy and other situations. The 80s was a good time, but wasn't the financial best. 

  I did want Vanessa at the end to just tell MIke: "Why is me either having a goal or when it has anything to do with the house all of a sudden a bad thing?" Same goes with Eve's music all of a sudden, she cares about it again? Wasn't it just three episodes ago, she was done for good and went back to the Air force? If she would have said she wants to just get a little extra money and doesn't want websites to get most of the money. Then OK. Other wise it was like she wanted to make it BIG again. Poor Kyle, leave him alone. 

[Skyfall]

I'm done with this show. D. O. N. E.

[readster]

2 hours ago, Skyfall said:

I'm done with this show. D. O. N. E.

I'm not there, but really after this, it's getting closer and closer to me turning off the Baxters for good. I'm tired of Mike having to be an asshole over the smallest things. Vanessa needing a brain, the constant giving Ryan of responsibilities that he and Mike will ALWAYS turn into some stupid debate and everyone else missing a braincell or forgetting what happened two episodes ago.

[Katy M]

This last episode was kind of stupid/  No, Mandy and Kyle, losing is not as good as winning.  No, Kristen and Ryan, you don't have to act like 2 year olds when you lose.  You can still have fun.  No, Vanessa, you don't have to run your 19 year old daughter's life.

[readster]

I'm in full agreement. I think if they would have just had Mandy and Kyle basically shown that winning isn't everything. They would have come across as less idiotic. Sadly, much like other shows that are on the air too long, they start focusing on the troupes of characters. Kyle and Mandy haved to the point I'm surprised they can get dressed in the morning. Everything with Eve could have been avoided if Eve would have just said: "It feels weird that my boyfriend doesn't want to invite me to his parents because what does that mean for our relationship?" "Should we just break up or talk?" Simple as that, no they have both Mike and Vanessa come across as stupid. Mike wants to be: "I'm a guy, I don't care about feelings." Vanessa: "I need to know what is going on in my kids' lives 24/7." As for Kristen and Ryan, I mean really, what is the point anymore? They seem to not care about anything, Kristen caves to Ryan's idiocy, Ryan has to have an opinion on everything and never wants to hear the other side of the story. Plus, the wardrobe department makes Amanda Fuller look horrible, I mean I have not seen her in one outfit this season that doesn't make her look horrid. I mean the green dress with the faux leather jacket. Made her hips look HUGE. 

[Mabinogia]

I kind of like Mandy and Kyle's being equally happy about winning or losing a stupid game. It's just a game. And if you had fun playing, you won. I'm super competitive when I play games, but if I lose I just don't care, which actually drives people crazy when they try to gloat. Yeah, they went overboard with the stupid, but I don't expect more than that from this show.

Vanessa...I just can't with her. She is the worst! I don't know why she tries so hard to make Eve a typical daughter. Eve is more like her father. Get used to it. She has two others she can talk about feelings and relationships with and go dress shopping and to the hair dresser. Leave Eve alone. She was fine until you meddled.

I wonder why I still watch this show since I'm pretty much sick of all of them. I still like Eve now that she's back to being Eve. Never liked Ryan and Kristin that much. Mandy bothers me a lot of the time but I find her and Kyle occasionally cute. Vanessa and Mike, I am so over. I really wish there were something else on Friday so I could quit this mess.

[Katy M]

1 hour ago, Mabinogia said:

I kind of like Mandy and Kyle's being equally happy about winning or losing a stupid game. It's just a game. And if you had fun playing, you won. I'm super competitive when I play games, but if I lose I just don't care, which actually drives people crazy when they try to gloat. Yeah, they went overboard with the stupid, but I don't expect more than that from this show.

It didn't bother me that Mandy and Kyle didn't mind losing.  Especially at a trivia game where they were destined to lose anyway.  It was the whole speech about losing is the same as winning or something.  And I think the real reason it bothered me, is that you would expect Ryan to have that attitude. He's always been portrayed as an "everyone gets a trophy" liberal.  So, I think the whole thing just came across as forced.

[Mabinogia]

22 minutes ago, Katy M said:

And I think the real reason it bothered me, is that you would expect Ryan to have that attitude. He's always been portrayed as an "everyone gets a trophy" liberal.

That's true. Ryan shouldn't have been that competitive. I think my dislike of K&R just made M&K's rubbing it in worth the character inconsistency. I just love anyone who can rub it in the face of a bad loser. Like, it's a game, lighten up. So the message was there, it was just delivered with a very heavy hand.

[readster]

21 hours ago, Mabinogia said:

That's true. Ryan shouldn't have been that competitive. I think my dislike of K&R just made M&K's rubbing it in worth the character inconsistency. I just love anyone who can rub it in the face of a bad loser. Like, it's a game, lighten up. So the message was there, it was just delivered with a very heavy hand.

I agree with that. Also, going back to Eve, at this point in time, when someone is in their late teens and they are like the other parent, most mothers or fathers just go: "That's how they are." and leave it at that. With Vanessa it is like she never learns anything, but it goes back to how Mike acts. He has gotten to the point he is so "His way or the highway thinking." Every time he makes a decision, he is forced in that world view. It was like a few episodes ago with the entire tutoring in Outdoor Man and Vanessa trying to start a tutoring business. Mike read it and was like: "Not in my house and not with Ryan. Screw that crap!" Then Vanessa was all: "Oh you are so right, Mike!" Bullshit! In this case all Mike had to say was: "Vanessa, get over it!" "Eve is old enough, she is like me, she doesn't care. If she does, she will tell you or me. Like she always does." Eve could have stopped it all by saying: "Why can't I come to your parents?" Simple as that, and he would have given her the main reason.

[Katy M]

Actually, there was one part of the episode I liked.  That Mike told Vanessa that Eve will talk if you're doing something with her.  I'm not sure why Vanessa hasn't figured this out in 18 or 19 years.  I'm the same way.  If you ask me questions, I feel defensive, and I shut down.  If we're just talking while doing something else, I'm much more likely to spill everything.

[readster]

50 minutes ago, Katy M said:

Actually, there was one part of the episode I liked.  That Mike told Vanessa that Eve will talk if you're doing something with her.  I'm not sure why Vanessa hasn't figured this out in 18 or 19 years.  I'm the same way.  If you ask me questions, I feel defensive, and I shut down.  If we're just talking while doing something else, I'm much more likely to spill everything.

How true. I also would have liked it if Mike would have then said: "You know if you pry, Eve is going to not tell you anything." "Haven't you learned that?"

[Beulah]

Is Amanda Fuller pregnant

[readster]

That has been asked several times the last two years. Even worst, they do outfits on her where one episode she looks pretty thin and the next where she looks like she is going into labor. After a lot of checking, Amanda Fuller did say she had been going through various weight gains and loses and did try having a baby the last two years. They said they would write it into the show if she did become pregnant. Considering how much critics and audiences don't enjoy Kristin, Boyd or Ryan. I don't see how it would work now. Of course that hasn't stopped them from making Vanessa look like a super idiot the last two years.

[readster]

You know, I always find it interesting when someone wants to kick someone out of the house for what ever reason. In Mike's case, even though they worked out a deal that Kyle and Mandy wanted to save for their own house and apparently have the money now. It's "Get out and stay out" attitude. Sure, now Kyle has inherited an acre of land from his deadbeat mom, but still. They really missed an opportunity with Kyle and Ryan because Kyle asked what parent just leaves their kid. Ryan should have been there going: "Me, and I learned that was the coward's way." Speaking of Ryan, they once again show how self absorbed he is. He doesn't know what to do if Boyd goes to school again because he won't know what to do. I know they filmed these episodes out of order and showed them too, but it paints Ryan as a complete dumbass. He has a teaching degree in History and a degree in history. They are short in Colorado with teachers and Mr. Rightwing self opinion could get a job in any school public or private as long as he doesn't piss off a parent. He get a job right away, especially since he is so concerned with the planet. It be a natural fit for him.

   I do like the writers basically had Eve say that what she did was stupid do to fear when she didn't get into Westpoint and then let it dominate her life. Instead of picking herself up and moving on. 

[NYGirl]

Wow..season finale already??

BTW I hate Jay Leno on this show and want to punch him in his big fat jaw.

Edited April 1, 2017 by NYGirl

[readster]

That was a season finale? I mean, umm... everything with just painful. I think Eve was the only funny thing.  As for Mandy, I would have told her professor: "Umm... you have to meet these guys, they fight about the stupidest things, so let's just leave it." Everything with Vanessa too was stupid, oh she can't get angry. Let's make another jab about Kristin being pregnant at 17 again. Because that never works. I haven't seen a directionless episode like this in years and nothing really was at stake like say the Dr. Ken season finale. I know the show is getting another season, but what the hell was this? Jay, you weren't funny and putting peanut butter on all the cameras? How old are you? Plus, where did you think that would be a good idea in what universe?

[Beezella]

That was awful. Was the laugh track more intrusive than usual, or was the show so lame it just stood out more?

[readster]

9 hours ago, Beezella said:

That was awful. Was the laugh track more intrusive than usual, or was the show so lame it just stood out more?

I think a little of both. There were moments where there wasn't even a joke and the laugh track started. As many of us had said, this didn't seem like a season finale at all, but just a very bad episode. You look at this season here is what happened:

 1. Starts off with the brunch for the restaurant, even if the bear thing was stupid.

2. Kyle and Mandy get engaged and married.

3. Eve getting over herself and going back to school.

4. Vanessa loses her job and opens up her own tutoring organization. 

5. Ryan decides to let Boyd go back to school and he gets a job as a tutor/teacher.

6. Kyle's mom dies, leaves him land to build a house and so Mike can finally kick out Kyle and Mandy.

7. Eve moved in with Kristin and Ryan and the moved back home until she starts college.

8 Ed gets divorced for the 4th time.

 

  So, you add in all those things throughout the season, things happened. You look at the last 4 season finales, and major things happened. 1. Ryan return. 2. Boyd and Kristin move out. 3. Ryan and Kristin get engaged. 4. Ryan's father returns only to reveal he is going to die and is sorry about everything and Eve isn't going to Westpoint and doesn't know what to do with her life now. This season ends with Jay Leno and Chuck being complete idiots over the company's softball team, Mike knows they are and Mandy finds out that not all answers are in a book? Vanessa is apparently always happy even if you punch her out and apparently got her PhD by being a ditz? Umm... huh? A better way would have either Kristin or Mandy finding out they are pregnant. Eve realizing she is officially moving on with her life or Ed coming to grips he screwed up 4 marriages, had kids from each one and had a miscarriage with the last. Feeling he has to leave Mike and Kyle company when his time comes. Something other than, peanut butter being smeared on the company cameras. Talk of cronuts for 7 minutes and the fact that the kickboxing instructor being so weak that Eve kicked her ass.

[jumper sage]

So I am not the only one who can't stand the show?

[readster]

2 hours ago, jumper sage said:

So I am not the only one who can't stand the show?

It's fallen so off the deep end now. While the ratings have been good in syndication and the drop hasn't been too bad. I do hope that next season is the last because they don't know what to do with half the characters. Plus, the use of Jay Leno is just abysmal and Mike has gone from the Last Man Standing to super asshole and Vanessa if you looked into her ear you would see the person on the other side waving back. 

[MDE427]

Did most of you just not pay any attention this season? The comments here are inconsistent (with each other and with the actual show content in season 6) and people seem upset for things that did not occur. 

Eve had some major plots this season. Yet so many people state she had no plot/no use/was just there for a check in season 6. So, in Eve's most evolved, adult, and interesting season she is 'rudderless', 'lost' and/or 'pointless'? So you didn't actually WATCH season 6 then?? -  Let's see, Eve decides NOT to go to college and take a year off. She works at Outdoor Man and then quits. She pisses off both parents (because of college delays, quitting Outdoor Man), and she moves out of the house and into Kristen's basement. She gets her first real boyfriend on the show ever, who happens to be a decent kid, but a 20 year old recovering Alcoholic. She attempts to pursue her music (which she is GOOD at, unlike some comments here .... she just wasn't a fit for the MEAT restaurant INSIDE the big guns and ammo store is all), and at the end of the season she tells her parents she's been accepted to the Air Force Academy and plans to attend there next year, which then creates a fight and breakup with her new boyfriend, since she will be moving away to college in the near future, and there may be "no point" to them continuing with their relationship.  ..................... all in all I'd say that's a pretty shit character in season 6 then huh? lulz - that makes NO SENSE. She was one of the bigger stories of season 6, had impacts in quite a few ways, had adult conversations with her parents, sisters, and brothers-in-law, and decided to get her original dreams back on track and join a military academy.

The sister without any reason to be there in season 6 was Kristen. There was absolutely ZERO character developments or plots for her in season 6. She briefly appears in a little over half the episodes, and she has a strange, half shaven head, which is mostly covered up with the hair from the top of her head anyway, and looks ridiculous when you can see the clipped side in all it's butchy glory! Add that to the fact that by the end of the season she appears to have put on 30 to 40 lbs of weight for some reason, and the actress who plays her is liked even less than she already has been since joining the show in season 2. Seriously, Alexandra Krosney fit this role SO MUCH BETTER and never should have been replaced. They still could have aged Boyd to 7 or 8 ish in season 2 and left Alexandra as Kristen. She fit the role better in every way, most importantly, in looks ..... she actually looked like she could be Mandy and Eve's sister. Season 6 could have existed with everything they did and left Kristen's character off the show completely and nothing would have had to change. 

Why is it important to make Vanessa's job search so realistic or else it pisses off fans (i.e. actual PHD's who don't relate to her character's direction)? Yes she could teach at a community college, but she clearly wants to teach high school science and, due to her age, she has been struggling to find the work she wants. The fact that a 50+ person would have trouble getting hired in a variety of fields is actually a very real thing, so having her go through this in season 6 seems pretty straight forward. It didn't take up a ton of screen time, and fit the average plot time allowance for her character season to season. 

Boyd had just a handful of scenes all season, and that was fine. His character is 10/11 ish, and his absence left more time for things like the Kyle/Ryan relationship, which was one of the better story plots of season 6. It also left time for Jay Leno to appear in a half dozen episodes. Love him or hate him (or not really care about him either way like me), his Joe character is actually funny, and has added to the show overall, putting him in the mix with Larabee, Ed and Mike.  

The show is about Mike Baxter, and, as usual, Mike Baxter was front and center all season long. Mandy and Eve both had excellent plots for the season, and with less Kristen/Boyd/Joe (no Joe) screen time we got more Kyle and Ryan, the brothers-in law, and their relationships with each other, and with their father-in-law, which is always great! Vanessa and Ed's role seemed unchanged from every other season they have been in, and Larabee got a little more screen time this season, which was also a big plus, as he is one of the better characters for Mike Baxter to interact with on the show. Overall I thought season 6 was strong. Eve developed in MAJOR ways throughout the season, Mandy and Kyle got married, and the show stayed very funny all season long. I don't understand much of the complaints about it. Mostly because the complaints don't make a whole hell of a lot of sense. 

[Steff]

2 hours ago, MDE427 said:

Did most of you just not pay any attention this season? The comments here are inconsistent (with each other and with the actual show content in season 6) and people seem upset for things that did not occur. 

Eve had some major plots this season. Yet so many people state she had no plot/no use/was just there for a check in season 6. So, in Eve's most evolved, adult, and interesting season she is 'rudderless', 'lost' and/or 'pointless'? So you didn't actually WATCH season 6 then?? -  Let's see, Eve decides NOT to go to college and take a year off. She works at Outdoor Man and then quits. She pisses off both parents (because of college delays, quitting Outdoor Man), and she moves out of the house and into Kristen's basement. She gets her first real boyfriend on the show ever, who happens to be a decent kid, but a 20 year old recovering Alcoholic. She attempts to pursue her music (which she is GOOD at, unlike some comments here .... she just wasn't a fit for the MEAT restaurant INSIDE the big guns and ammo store is all), and at the end of the season she tells her parents she's been accepted to the Air Force Academy and plans to attend there next year, which then creates a fight and breakup with her new boyfriend, since she will be moving away to college in the near future, and there may be "no point" to them continuing with their relationship.  ..................... all in all I'd say that's a pretty shit character in season 6 then huh? lulz - that makes NO SENSE. She was one of the bigger stories of season 6, had impacts in quite a few ways, had adult conversations with her parents, sisters, and brothers-in-law, and decided to get her original dreams back on track and join a military academy.

The sister without any reason to be there in season 6 was Kristen. There was absolutely ZERO character developments or plots for her in season 6. She briefly appears in a little over half the episodes, and she has a strange, half shaven head, which is mostly covered up with the hair from the top of her head anyway, and looks ridiculous when you can see the clipped side in all it's butchy glory! Add that to the fact that by the end of the season she appears to have put on 30 to 40 lbs of weight for some reason, and the actress who plays her is liked even less than she already has been since joining the show in season 2. Seriously, Alexandra Krosney fit this role SO MUCH BETTER and never should have been replaced. They still could have aged Boyd to 7 or 8 ish in season 2 and left Alexandra as Kristen. She fit the role better in every way, most importantly, in looks ..... she actually looked like she could be Mandy and Eve's sister. Season 6 could have existed with everything they did and left Kristen's character off the show completely and nothing would have had to change. 

Why is it important to make Vanessa's job search so realistic or else it pisses off fans (i.e. actual PHD's who don't relate to her character's direction)? Yes she could teach at a community college, but she clearly wants to teach high school science and, due to her age, she has been struggling to find the work she wants. The fact that a 50+ person would have trouble getting hired in a variety of fields is actually a very real thing, so having her go through this in season 6 seems pretty straight forward. It didn't take up a ton of screen time, and fit the average plot time allowance for her character season to season. 

Boyd had just a handful of scenes all season, and that was fine. His character is 10/11 ish, and his absence left more time for things like the Kyle/Ryan relationship, which was one of the better story plots of season 6. It also left time for Jay Leno to appear in a half dozen episodes. Love him or hate him (or not really care about him either way like me), his Joe character is actually funny, and has added to the show overall, putting him in the mix with Larabee, Ed and Mike.  

The show is about Mike Baxter, and, as usual, Mike Baxter was front and center all season long. Mandy and Eve both had excellent plots for the season, and with less Kristen/Boyd/Joe (no Joe) screen time we got more Kyle and Ryan, the brothers-in law, and their relationships with each other, and with their father-in-law, which is always great! Vanessa and Ed's role seemed unchanged from every other season they have been in, and Larabee got a little more screen time this season, which was also a big plus, as he is one of the better characters for Mike Baxter to interact with on the show. Overall I thought season 6 was strong. Eve developed in MAJOR ways throughout the season, Mandy and Kyle got married, and the show stayed very funny all season long. I don't understand much of the complaints about it. Mostly because the complaints don't make a whole hell of a lot of sense. 

and I'll add that, all things considered, it was the LEAST political commentary season yet.  Which shocked me in all the free shots at Clinton they DIDN'T take. 

Maybe I learned my lesson years ago with the last 2 seasons of Roseanne, but I don't pick apart sitcoms the same way I would a drama or movie.  It's funny or it's not. 

[readster]

5 hours ago, Steff said:

and I'll add that, all things considered, it was the LEAST political commentary season yet.  Which shocked me in all the free shots at Clinton they DIDN'T take. 

Maybe I learned my lesson years ago with the last 2 seasons of Roseanne, but I don't pick apart sitcoms the same way I would a drama or movie.  It's funny or it's not. 

 

 Everyone made good points, one of the biggest problems with Eve's plot is they acted like she wasn't aware of her main issue. She was angry she didn't get into her first choice. While we all can relate, they then had it where she went from having these other talents to saying these talents were all in her head and vice versa. Everyone agrees, Kristin could have been gone a long time ago, even the major reduce roles of both Ryan and Boyd were welcome.

  What really got into problems was how they had Vanessa not only lose her job, but her problems otherwise. People don't lose jobs and then let them work because the principal doesn't want to hurt their feelings. Things with the union contracts would have stated that one or more employees would have to be cut to get what they wanted. Vanessa's ditziness got to the point where it was too much. Plus, Mike going on her on what SHE SHOULD do. The she shack episode was the best example where Vanessa called Mike out on his crap perfectly and her scene with Eve going into the airforce was well written and acted. The rest... the writers don't do their research or they have to have Vanessa play dumb to make the plots work. Which goes against who she was in both season 1 and 2. Season 3 they took a nose dive on things. 

[TheRabbi]

Too frustrating to link on my crappy phone, but per Deadline, the show has been canceled after 6 seasons.

Thats a shame. It was drawing very respectable ratings for Friday nights. And I have always enjoyed Tim Allen, even if this past season wasn't quite as enjoyable as some of the others.

It's annoying that any show that's been on for 6 years doesn't get to end on its own terms. A final season warning for the writers would have been nice. I can't remember what this past seasons finale was about, but I know it wasn't any big finale-type storyline.

Oh well, it was a fun show while it lasted.

Edited May 11, 2017 by TheRabbi

[Skyfall]

The writing clearly lost steam and contracts were only increasing. They should've known after the past few years the TV grim reaper was near.

Edited May 14, 2017 by Skyfall

[Cherry Cola]

Thia sucks!! One of my favorites. F U ABC

[jumper sage]

I have just caught on, begrudgingly, to this show.  Catch an episode here and there on Hulu.  What really caught me is how much misogyny and homophobia runs rampant throughout the show.

They must have changed the actress who plays Kristen.  I am sure the actress who plays Eve is very nice but I can't stand the character Eve.

[readster]

It's sad they just cancelled it because the final episode was horrible. It was so out of place and made no sense. At least if they would have aired the episode before it with Kyle inheriting the property his mother owned despite everything. It would have been a decent ending to where the characters were moving on with their lives and no one was shown as a super dumbass like the previous episodes before that. Instead we got Jay Leno arguing with Chuck over very stupid reasons. Ruining thousands of dollars of cameras with peanutbutter only for Mike to turn around and have them see they were bad softball players. Then you add in the stupidity at the kicking boxing classes with Kristin, Vanessa and Eve was so painful. 

[ChicksDigScars]

If the ratings were respectable, what was their reasoning? The show has been a bit of a hot mess, with characters changing direction and story line changes, I see that Doctor Ken, in the following time slot, was also cancelled. Is ABC making room for a new hour long show and wanted to stick it on Fridays?

 

The network should have at least given them a chance to plan a "series wrap up."  Granted, I hated Home Improvement's final episode with them moving to Indiana, but at least they tied up loose ends after a long run. And let's not even SPEAK of Roseanne's final episode in that horrific final season.  Yes, Last Man Standing was not as big a ratings monster as either of those shows, or ran quite as long, but still. A final episode would have been nice. 

Edited May 12, 2017 by ChicksDigScars

[Subrookie]

I always thought this show filled a niche that wasn't being addressed by any of the networks. I'm sad to see it go as it was good family entertainment. Agree that some of the cast storylines changed mid-season or cast disappeared like Kristen's son, but it was a decent show.

[readster]

Yeah, I feel the series just had a bad ending. The final episode was so filler and so badly acted, written and so forth. I'll go with Kyle inheriting his mother's land and trailer as the final episode. It had closure and felt like everyone was moving on with their lives, even Ryan. I think if they would have spent less time with making Vanessa a twit and Kristin and Ryan being around at all and Eve acting so out of character the last year. I think it could have been a better send off. At least with Dr. Ken, they left it as a wrap up of things. Oh well. 

[Gam2]

We loved Home Improvement and are enjoying it again in reruns. We tried to like this show but the constant political references, Vanessa doing all of the cooking, smoothing over conflicts between Mike and the kids, that constant nonsense with Ryan and Kristin was just too much to take. We watch comedies to laugh and relate to everyday circumstances that all parents/kids go through. I realize they were trying to show a family with disparate beliefs and politics but that took over the show. If a comedy is not funny, what's the point?

[Skyfall]

On 5/12/2017 at 10:54 AM, ChicksDigScars said:

If the ratings were respectable, what was their reasoning? The show has been a bit of a hot mess, with characters changing direction and story line changes, I see that Doctor Ken, in the following time slot, was also cancelled. Is ABC making room for a new hour long show and wanted to stick it on Fridays?

 

The network should have at least given them a chance to plan a "series wrap up."  Granted, I hated Home Improvement's final episode with them moving to Indiana, but at least they tied up loose ends after a long run. And let's not even SPEAK of Roseanne's final episode in that horrific final season.  Yes, Last Man Standing was not as big a ratings monster as either of those shows, or ran quite as long, but still. A final episode would have been nice. 

1- Tim's contract keeps growing year over year and as shows age the network takes on more of the price tag. With this not beIN gowned by ABC that meant they weren't getting the backend of syndication money.

2- Not owned by ABC and the recent trend has been vertical synergy for all the broadcasts

3- it's just creatively ran out of juice.

(All of the above apply to 2BG as well)

4- It seems ABC is either dropping the Friday comedy block (OUAT maybe since lower ratings are acceptable on Friday?) or they are breaking up the Tuesday block for the two Marvel shows). My vote is on the former as they'll just slot in speechless or blackish into Tuesday's and have a new comedy premiere on Wednesday.

[msani19]

Exactly what Skyfall said, especially points 1& 2. The economics of tv shows are complicated and not what they used to be. Ownership of a show is vital. I would also add that the demographics of the show weren't the "favored" ones. I've always hated that particular stat cause I watch or at least sample a lot of tv and I am still in that "desired" demo. It's a false narrative that younger people are more willing to change brands. Maybe in the past, but I don't think that's as true anymore. 

The new generation All in the Family vibe they were trying for did not work. Maybe because Tim Allen is no Archie Bunker or maybe a Norman Lear is required to guide the story. 

I'll try to find the link to an interesting article about why the show might have been canceled. I'm just highly amused at how "sensitive" conservatives are being about the cancellation cause they are being persecuted and this is more proof. 

[4leafclover]

Quote

 I'm just highly amused at how "sensitive" conservatives are being about the cancellation cause they are being persecuted and this is more proof. 

 

And you don't think they have a point?

[readster]

10 hours ago, msani19 said:

Exactly what Skyfall said, especially points 1& 2. The economics of tv shows are complicated and not what they used to be. Ownership of a show is vital. I would also add that the demographics of the show weren't the "favored" ones. I've always hated that particular stat cause I watch or at least sample a lot of tv and I am still in that "desired" demo. It's a false narrative that younger people are more willing to change brands. Maybe in the past, but I don't think that's as true anymore. 

The new generation All in the Family vibe they were trying for did not work. Maybe because Tim Allen is no Archie Bunker or maybe a Norman Lear is required to guide the story. 

I think the demo has not been a working piece for some years and other networks have decided to leave that thought process behind. Since it has become less and less relevant. As for when they tried to change things to All in the Family was not a smart move. In fact many critics and fans of season 1 thought the shift in the tone and with the actors was too much when season 2 started and the fact that when season 3 started, they started cutting down things hugely. However, every time they had to bring up something political between Mike and Ryan and making Kristin, dumber and dumber along with Vanessa. Those episodes were the lowest and most criticized episodes because they showed Mike to be some big baby and Ryan having no brains for even the most smallest things. Plus, in season 3 they started just dropping storylines and characters and putting characters in very ridiculous story lines. I think Vanessa's role from being smart, PhD who worked a very good job and wasn't ashamed of her life. Was turned into a person who had to settle all arguments, jumping on Ryan's side (because he was the baby daddy). To acting like the politics of teaching were horrible and then being out of a job not once, but twice and then Mike hating the fact that Vanessa wanted to have her own space and tutoring business was such a No No. Plus Mike going from loving holidays and events to hating them and wanting to kick everyone out of his house. Ryan magically being from Canada or his father returning, then dying. The wedding we never saw, Kristin wanting to be a doctor, but then thought shots give children autism and then dropping out to run a food chain for Mike. Ed making a big deal of wanting to get married again, but only to divorce him again because the TPTB couldn't figure out what to do with his "wife" after they married them over the summer. So they dropped her from the show and with Chuck's wife because they didn't know how to write them anymore. Don't get me on why Vanessa thought she had to be ethnically aware when season 3 started. 

   In fact I think season 6 was the most painful season with the only satisfying conclusion being that Eve got over herself and moved on with her life and had a very REAL conversation with Vanessa and vice versa about going into the military. That was the best written scene in years on the show, but sadly, they then had to drop Eve getting ready to go to the air force for the stupidity of them trying to get Vanessa to have a brain again.

[msani19]

You summed up the issues on the show so well! In fact, your summary makes the show sound more ridiculous than I thought it was and I saw the episodes!

[katie9918]

This show deserved cancellation no matter what its politics, but I have no doubt its politics played a part in it.

[seacliffsal]

I actually just started watching this year on the Hallmark Channel.  I felt that there were liberal as well as conservative perspectives on various issues.  I really started liking Mandy (the second daughter-right?).  Just a good show to have on in the background or when winding down.  I'm sorry to see it go.

[readster]

Looking back now, despite the utter weird and disaster that season 2 is. It was going half way into season 4 where we really saw the dumbing down of characters and personality changes in everyone. By the time we got to season 4, Eve was basically trying to be a boy all the time. Mike was pissed off about something or other. Ryan had to make an argument if he stubbed his toe and Vanessa and Kyle I'm surprised knew how to tie her shows at times. By the time season 5 rolled around, you wanted Boyd and Ryan to drop off the face of the Earth and take Kristen with them and Mike was all: "I make more money than you do, Vanessa. So live with it." 

[Snarklepuss]

On 5/13/2017 at 8:58 PM, Skyfall said:

4- It seems ABC is either dropping the Friday comedy block (OUAT maybe since lower ratings are acceptable on Friday?) or they are breaking up the Tuesday block for the two Marvel shows). My vote is on the former as they'll just slot in speechless or blackish into Tuesday's and have a new comedy premiere on Wednesday.

Now suddenly, ABC has announced a reboot of "Roseanne" with the original cast, so maybe that has something to do with it.  Although like others, I think politics was involved.  I can't imagine a show with ratings this good, no matter how things had gone downhill in the plots, etc., would just happen.

And I'm not even political, nor do I even watch this show!