Last Man Standing - General Discussion

[DanaK]

19 hours ago, Neiman said:

I found Eve to be abrasive in recent seasons that she was featured, so I wasn’t exactly excited going into this episode. It turned out better than I expected, but find it somewhat annoying that there are invisible grandkids and no mentions of the grandson. 

Sort of surprised to see Eve’s bedroom like that. For some reason, I thought they had changed it a few seasons back. 

Glad there was no Jen in that episode. 

Sort of surprised with Kyle’s story because I thought he no longer worked with Outdoor Man. 

He hasn't quit yet. He's in seminary school so I think he still needs the (extra) money

[realdancemom]

9 hours ago, DanaK said:

He hasn't quit yet. He's in seminary school so I think he still needs the (extra) money

Especially since Mandy takes care of Evelyn and Sarah.  I'm surprised that Mandy hasn't continued with designing fashion.

[Aryanna]

On 4/8/2021 at 7:00 PM, DanaK said:

Hour long series finale May 20 at 9pm https://deadline.com/2021/04/last-man-standing-series-finale-hour-long-air-date-fox-1234730618/

On Hulu it's only a regular length episode. Kind of a lackluster finale. It didn't tie up any loose ends or make a big deal about coming to a close. It just kinda ended all of a sudden.

[DanaK]

3 hours ago, Aryanna said:

On Hulu it's only a regular length episode. Kind of a lackluster finale. It didn't tie up any loose ends or make a big deal about coming to a close. It just kinda ended all of a sudden.

I don’t think they are even up to the Eve episode yet on Hulu. Are you sure you aren’t talking about the Season 8 finale when Kristen goes into labor and did end somewhat abruptly because they had to shut down early due to Covid?

[SuprSuprElevated]

Spoilers should be tagged as such, right?

 

[Aryanna]

19 hours ago, DanaK said:

I don’t think they are even up to the Eve episode yet on Hulu. Are you sure you aren’t talking about the Season 8 finale when Kristen goes into labor and did end somewhat abruptly because they had to shut down early due to Covid?

I'm talking about S9E14 - The Two Nieces of Eve. Eve comes home for a visit and struggles to connect with her nieces - 22 minutes, Air Date April 8, 2021.  

[iHateAmpersands]

8 minutes ago, Aryanna said:

I'm talking about S9E14 - The Two Nieces of Eve. Eve comes home for a visit and struggles to connect with her nieces - 22 minutes, Air Date April 8, 2021.  

They have another month to go; the finale is on May 20th.

[Aryanna]

7 minutes ago, iHateAmpersands said:

They have another month to go; the finale is on May 20th.

I guess that shows how little I've been paying attention to this series lately. I've been waiting several days before watching new episodes. At least Jen wasn't in this latest episode. 

[seacliffsal]

I really enjoyed this episode.  They addressed the fact that there are facets and depths to characters beyond the obvious.  I like that Kaitlyn guest stars on the series even though she has other opportunities in movies.  

[Neiman]

It was nice to see the granddaughter, but the storyline wasn’t exactly funny or exciting. It’s like they’re just going through the motions. Best parts were the scenes at Outdoor Man. Love the interactions between the guys.

[Chatty Cake]

This season continues to disappoint. There’s very little to laugh at. The recent episode with the naughty granddaughter and everyone acting timid around her just wasn’t funny or relatable. I still cannot stand Jen. Biggest mistake on the show.

[seacliffsal]

I actually thought this episode hit a big cultural issue in that many parents are afraid to upset their children and allow their young children to dictate to them.  I don't think there was a real resolution to the problem granddaughter and it wasn't "cute" when Vanessa then sided with the granddaughter about watching t.v. when NuMandy had directed her daughter to not watch the t.v.

As for the 30 year anniversary, that would make the partnership date from 1990 which seems too late.  Oh well.

Oh, and Jen?  If you don't like the inconvenience of the granddaughter, how about, oh, I don't know, moving? And in her sharing about her father as a civil engineer, there was not one mention of the supposed "danger" he is in which is why she is living with the Baxters...

[realdancemom]

On 4/28/2021 at 3:06 PM, seacliffsal said:

I actually thought this episode hit a big cultural issue in that many parents are afraid to upset their children and allow their young children to dictate to them.  I don't think there was a real resolution to the problem granddaughter and it wasn't "cute" when Vanessa then sided with the granddaughter about watching t.v. when NuMandy had directed her daughter to not watch the t.v.

As for the 30 year anniversary, that would make the partnership date from 1990 which seems too late.  Oh well.

Oh, and Jen?  If you don't like the inconvenience of the granddaughter, how about, oh, I don't know, moving? And in her sharing about her father as a civil engineer, there was not one mention of the supposed "danger" he is in which is why she is living with the Baxters...

I didn't like that Vanessa gave in to the granddaughter at the end either.  Mandy finally was disciplining her and that wasn't helping.

I liked last night's episode more than other episodes this season.  Vanessa is really competitive and lost the joy of just walking.  The main story between Ryan and Kristin was good too.

[Chatty Cake]

Vanessa should have gone off on that idiot Jen for deleting her funbit app. What an entitled jerk. 

[Aryanna]

I have never understood or bought in to Kristin's success. Maybe I've forgotten something from a previous season but I don't see how she's gone from a waitress to the CEO of a company. What has trained her and given her the knowledge to be entrusted with this responsibility? 

It seems Kristin has gotten everything she has because she's Mike Baxter's daughter. Whereas Mandy, the supposed dumb one, worked hard and had talent to actually be a designer. A plotline that they let die completely.

I've always had a problem with Krisitn's success.

[seacliffsal]

And to add to the above post, Ryan's success is also due to Mike Baxter who had him run Bud's Budds.

[realdancemom]

On 5/6/2021 at 9:48 PM, Aryanna said:

I have never understood or bought in to Kristin's success. Maybe I've forgotten something from a previous season but I don't see how she's gone from a waitress to the CEO of a company. What has trained her and given her the knowledge to be entrusted with this responsibility? 

It seems Kristin has gotten everything she has because she's Mike Baxter's daughter. Whereas Mandy, the supposed dumb one, worked hard and had talent to actually be a designer. A plotline that they let die completely.

I've always had a problem with Krisitn's success.

I agree about Kristin.  But I guess that's true in the real world.  Nepotism goes a long way.

I also agree with you about Mandy.  I don't know why the show just decided to let that story die.  Mandy was so passionate about design.

On 5/8/2021 at 9:51 AM, seacliffsal said:

And to add to the above post, Ryan's success is also due to Mike Baxter who had him run Bud's Budds.

I agree that Ryan got his success through Mike too in regards to Bud's Budds.  At least, he has to prove his worth with his new company though.

[Deskisamess]

On 2/5/2021 at 5:13 PM, SuprSuprElevated said:

I have second-hand embarrassment just watching.  I could shoot the idiot box (my dad's favorite term for the television) whenever the Vanessa Baxter character darkens the scene.  For a once highly entertaining show to have devolved so badly is really a mystery to me.  I have to assume it's a writing thing, but I'm no teevee insider, so I couldn't say for sure.

Awful.  Just awful.

I have not watched any of the last season, but the Vanessa character has always been horrible in my opinion. It's surprising that the actress was willing to say some of the lines they gave her. The worst was the episode about the Hilary election, when she said she would vote for a woman just because she was a woman. 

I realize there are those who would share that opinion, but it didn't match the character at  all. She was highly educated, carried how many college degrees etc. and wouldn't have approached that decision with no logic or world-view to base her decision on, simply using gender to decide. It just didn't ring true.

Vanessa was just a space filler character. And I'm fairly conservative in my views, but making liberal views always on the lunatic fringe was also a turnoff. We watched the show at times, but I never found it all that great. And the exchange student was the last straw, with NuMandy coming a close second.

[Katy M]

19 minutes ago, Deskisamess said:

I have not watched any of the last season, but the Vanessa character has always been horrible in my opinion. It's surprising that the actress was willing to say some of the lines they gave her. The worst was the episode about the Hilary election, when she said she would vote for a woman just because she was a woman. 

I complained about that on another board.  It really rubbed me the wrong way.  You should not vote for a candidate because of their race, sex or disability status.  Vanessa basically told Eve that she was wrong for disliking Hilary's positions (not taking any side on those positions, just pointing out the ridiculousness of the situation) because Hilary was a woman, she should support her (vote for her if she were old enough) regardless of her platform, experience, etc.  And she thought that was a feminist statement, and I'm of the opinion that it was just the opposite.

She also supported Carol for the school board just because she was her friend AND it was implied that she assumed that Carol was liberal because she was Black.  Although she said she assumed it because she was nice.  Both views are pretty insulting.

[Daff]

And therein lies the problem with our electoral system. Most money, most popularity wins. Remember when those things really counted for something? Even during those long eons ago, they didn’t, not really. 

[Neiman]

Glad to see the last episode focus on Mandy a bit. I don’t care for Kristen and Ryan at all, and I think it’s odd how their son has been forgotten considering he was a big part of plot in early seasons.

As always, I loved the scenes with the guys at Outdoor Man.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Kaitlin Dever stars in the movie adaptation of Dear Evan Hansen:

 

[DanaK]

I enjoyed the last 2 episodes, especially the camping one, the last episode not quite as much. The camping one was funny and enjoyable, even though I don’t really like Jen that much. The last episode was pretty good and nostalgic, though it was a little heavy handed having mourning for the stolen truck as a stand in for the ending of the show

Tim Allen has made it clear in interviews he resisted ending the show. I think he made that initial ABC cancelation political when he didn’t need to, and bringing it back with so many changes because of unavailability of the cast hurt it. It probably should have ended when ABC canceled it. It definitely lasted a season or two longer than it should have

Edited May 21, 2021 by DanaK

[JayDub1987]

13 hours ago, DanaK said:

I enjoyed the last 2 episodes, especially the camping one, the last episode not quite as much. The camping one was funny and enjoyable, even though I don’t really like Jen that much. The last episode was pretty good and nostalgic, though it was a little heavy handed having mourning for the stolen truck as a stand in for the ending of the show

Tim Allen has made it clear in interviews he resisted ending the show. I think he made that initial ABC cancelation political when he didn’t need to, and bringing it back with so many changes because of unavailability of the cast hurt it. It probably should have ended when ABC canceled it. It definitely lasted a season or two longer than it should have

I had the exact opposite reaction. I didn't care for the camping episode at all (but I also can't stand Jen's character) and really enjoyed the truck episode. I thought it was a fitting ending for the show. I especially enjoyed the references to "this is longer than I worked on home improvement" (something along those lines) and his truck being "removed from the network." 

I like the fact that Tim made it work on another network after ABC pulled the plug on LMS for no great reason, but this last season was tough to watch. 

[Egg McMuffin]

I never understood why Fox waited a year to pick up LMS, letting it go out of production and all the contracts lapse. Had they picked it up immediately after the ABC cancellation, they would likely have still had all the actors under contract. I vaguely remember them saying that it didn’t fit on their schedule and they had no companion for it (to fill out the hour). But still, they could have picked it up for midseason to at least keep the cast together. The show was doing well in syndication, so there was a good business reason for continuing to produce new episodes.

[JapMo]

This season the show was like an old car on a cold winter morning, sputtering and wheezing and coasting on fumes.  You could tell they either weren't trying very hard anymore or they had run out of ideas.  Who was ruined the most? 

I would say it was a tossup between Mandie & Kyle.  They took a sweet, funny, loveable character in Kyle and turned him into a total idiot.  Yes, it's true that he was always written as a little bit dense, but they developed his character over the years and we watched him grow and become a man.  Most of last season and definitely all of this one the writers stopped trying.  Kyle was trotted into one or two scenes a show to spout off some moronic, decidedly unfunny lines and then walk off again.  I kept waiting to hear a bah dum bum drum beat to encourage the audience to laugh.  It seemed the writers didn't put his character into a scene because it was necessary but rather they needed to fulfill their contractual obligation to the actor.  IMO he became a hinderance to every scene he was in.  There was no point to his character.

I know it sounds funny, but the writers actually dumbed down the character of Mandie.  I don't blame the actress who replaced the original Mandie because she tried her best with the crap she was given.  I think early on they realized she didn't have that certain something that the original Molly had, so they just turned her, like Kyle, into a total moron.  Mandie lost her ambition and just sat around on the couch with Kyle saying stupid things.

I didn't care for the ending at all, and really hated the camping episode.  To give so much air time to such an obnoxious character as Jen is an insult to the other actors.  

[SuprSuprElevated]

2 minutes ago, JapMo said:

To give so much air time to such an obnoxious character as Jen is an insult to the other actors.  

Agreed.  In trying to reconcile this in my head, I can only conclude that a) the actress has compromising photos of a producer, or b) she's related to someone of import in the organization.

Reminds me of the Rusty character in Major Crimes (which I'm forced to watch/listen to while in the room with the Hubs, who adores the show).  Extremely annoying character, who seems to get 75% of the scene time.

[DanaK]

 

Sounds like lame excuses to me

[readster]

13 hours ago, DanaK said:

 

Sounds like lame excuses to me

The show runners and writers seriously just didn't know what to do anymore. They were out of story ideas. They ran everything in the ground, they had lost two major cast members since the switch of networks. Jen was a disaster and people noticed Boyd was on less and less when they switched. They could have focused on "big brother" or more on how Ryan and Kris were older and now in better places in their lives then when they were 17 and young and stupid (though stupid never went away). 

[DanaK]

On 5/23/2021 at 6:48 AM, SuprSuprElevated said:

Agreed.  In trying to reconcile this in my head, I can only conclude that a) the actress has compromising photos of a producer, or b) she's related to someone of import in the organization.

Reminds me of the Rusty character in Major Crimes (which I'm forced to watch/listen to while in the room with the Hubs, who adores the show).  Extremely annoying character, who seems to get 75% of the scene time.

In my view, it was likely she was replacing Eve after Kaitlyn left as another female foil for Mike. The other two daughters were mostly out of the house at that point

[Chatty Cake]

On 5/23/2021 at 10:28 PM, DanaK said:

 

Sounds like lame excuses to me

They’d rather have the horrible Jen back who is not related to them vs Boyd? That was a big mistake. The character of Jen pretty much ruined the show. (Followed by the new Mandy)

[readster]

On 5/25/2021 at 6:59 PM, Chatty Cake said:

They’d rather have the horrible Jen back who is not related to them vs Boyd? That was a big mistake. The character of Jen pretty much ruined the show. (Followed by the new Mandy)

Yeah, I'll never get the "love" they had for Jen. If you want an example of a forced and pet character. That's who Jen was. 

[limecoke]

Well, I finished it but it was pretty hard to watch. The odd leap in time in order to ignore COVID was understandable, but jarring. Then constant references to the little girls but never seeing them (except in one episode) was strange. Boyd was retconned into oblivion-even in the last episode where Vanessa said “Kristen dated Ryan then she dated Kyle.” DATED???? They had a kid together-that’s pretty significant!

The Jen character was completely unnecessary and not helped by the annoying  overacting. But the loss of original Mandy was a death blow they never recovered from. I loved the show but it should have ended when ABC cancelled it.  I’m a huge fan of Tim Allen and they did the best with what they had but it went too long and the last season limped over the finish line. Barely.

[readster]

17 hours ago, limecoke said:

Well, I finished it but it was pretty hard to watch. The odd leap in time in order to ignore COVID was understandable, but jarring. Then constant references to the little girls but never seeing them (except in one episode) was strange. Boyd was retconned into oblivion-even in the last episode where Vanessa said “Kristen dated Ryan then she dated Kyle.” DATED???? They had a kid together-that’s pretty significant!

The Jen character was completely unnecessary and not helped by the annoying  overacting. But the loss of original Mandy was a death blow they never recovered from. I loved the show but it should have ended when ABC cancelled it.  I’m a huge fan of Tim Allen and they did the best with what they had but it went too long and the last season limped over the finish line. Barely.

Yep, you pointed everything out what went wrong with the show. I also blamed ABC they should have just told LMS "This will most likely be the final season because of ratings and schedule changes, so give it a wrap up." Instead of: "Pull plug, but Dr. Ken listen to us."

[chediavolo]

Good riddance to this rubbish &  that goes double for you, Tim Allen. 

[seacliffsal]

I could never understand how they could justify Jen living with the Baxters when she continually complained and criticized them.  The camping episode just really confirmed this as Jen was hiding info from the Baxters and implied she was superior to their camping history and knowledge as she could get info from social media about camping.  She never seemed to appreciate the fact that this family opened their home to her.

Overall, I enjoyed this series and am sad to see it go.  However, I may be sadder than the writers as they did not seem to worry about story lines that made sense this season, wrote out the one character that was the root of the original premise (Boyd), and focused on an unlikable and unrelated character (Jen).

[readster]

18 hours ago, seacliffsal said:

Overall, I enjoyed this series and am sad to see it go.  However, I may be sadder than the writers as they did not seem to worry about story lines that made sense this season, wrote out the one character that was the root of the original premise (Boyd), and focused on an unlikable and unrelated character (Jen).

They hammered it over our heads for SOOOOO man years about Boyd being so important, especially why to HAVE Ryan around. Then they basically run out of things to do in a logical sense and just say: "Well, we didn't have room for him." Then with Jen, trying to remake Eve but for Vanessa was not only stupid. Vanessa has been portrayed as an airhead who got her PhD through a mail in rebate on the series. Trying to have someone who is not only angry all the time, but then defends Vanessa for even stupider reasons and then the girls get upset was also plain dumb. You get the personality types between Kristen, Mandy and Eve and the conflict and so forth. It worked. 

However, just like how Ryan kept going on how he hated holidays thinking they were "so fake and commercialized" yet loved getting free food and the fact his wife and son, LOVED holidays. But you know, he was "a stupid lib" and Mike had to own them because he is republican. 

Same here with saying: "We had no room for Boyd" but let's throw the most annoying and useless character back for the final season with Jen. Where even the actress was on social media going: "Come on, just like her, I'm sorry no one likes her, but I have bills to pay." 

[Neiman]

Count me as another who missed Boyd and wished they never created the Jen character. It’s like they didn’t know what to do with Vanessa—a smart woman or silly drunk? I would have liked for the show to continue with just Outdoor Man scenes but no Kristen. Making her the next CEO may have made sense to them, but IMO she added nothing. 

[DanaK]

1 hour ago, Neiman said:

Count me as another who missed Boyd and wished they never created the Jen character. It’s like they didn’t know what to do with Vanessa—a smart woman or silly drunk? I would have liked for the show to continue with just Outdoor Man scenes but no Kristen. Making her the next CEO may have made sense to them, but IMO she added nothing. 

Yeah, Vanessa's characterization was kind of all over the map. Was she dim or very, very smart? They kept hinting and joking that she drank too much, but didn't do anything serious with it.

As for Kristen, I liked the idea that she was the next CEO, but I think it would have been better if they had started that earlier in the season, or in the previous season

And pretty much dropping Boyd because the writers couldn't think of new stuff to do with him instead of rehashing his parents' history just showed the writers had run out of ideas.

Shows need to know when it's time to quit and too many don't figure it out until a season or two too late. Tim Allen just couldn't face ending the show and hung on too long (I'm not sure how much say he had, but comments in an interview or two suggested he had some say). I dislike when fans think a show should be canceled because they don't like changes, but when a show is running on fumes, and this show was, it's a mercy killing

[DanaK]

The last season received a Primetime Emmy nomination https://deadline.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/2021-Emmy-Nominations-List.pdf

Outstanding Cinematography for a Mult-Cam Series

[JAYJAY1979]

Rewatched season 1...the strongest season..imho.

Mandy in season 1 wasn't dumb whatsoever.  She just didn't have drive yet had lots of talent (Pie Rack, social media marketing of the barbershop, organizing a strike,  etc.).  I've never watched the Fox episodes so I dread seeing Mandy being diminished.  And I saw clips of McCook..and she had a cold and harsh way of delivering her lines...total contrast to how OG Mandy delivered her lines.

[Aryanna]

4 hours ago, JAYJAY1979 said:

Rewatched season 1...the strongest season..imho.

Mandy in season 1 wasn't dumb whatsoever.  She just didn't have drive yet had lots of talent (Pie Rack, social media marketing of the barbershop, organizing a strike,  etc.).  I've never watched the Fox episodes so I dread seeing Mandy being diminished.  And I saw clips of McCook..and she had a cold and harsh way of delivering her lines...total contrast to how OG Mandy delivered her lines.

Not the the Fox episodes don't have their moments but you wouldn't be missing much if you didn't watch them. It really does ruin Mandy tho.

[realdancemom]

On 3/20/2022 at 2:29 PM, JAYJAY1979 said:

Rewatched season 1...the strongest season..imho.

Mandy in season 1 wasn't dumb whatsoever.  She just didn't have drive yet had lots of talent (Pie Rack, social media marketing of the barbershop, organizing a strike,  etc.).  I've never watched the Fox episodes so I dread seeing Mandy being diminished.  And I saw clips of McCook..and she had a cold and harsh way of delivering her lines...total contrast to how OG Mandy delivered her lines.

I love season 1 even though I got tired watching the same reruns over again.  Pie Rack was such a fun episode.

Didn't like McCook as Mandy.