Laurel Lance: Black Canary, Black Siren.

[SonofaBiscuit]

I really wish I could sit down with the writers one day and get an honest answer on whether they actively try to make Laurel unlikeable and unpleasant, or whether they just don't realise they're doing it.

 

I frequently wonder if the writers not-so-secretly hate Laurel.  But I've decided nah, they're just making her super incompetent and irritating now so that when she's kicking ass like a pro by the midseason break, they can talk about how they really put her through her paces to become this awesome Warrior Canary. 

[tv echo]

You guys are exactly right about Laurel's relationship with the law.  That's why I can't buy the character arc they're trying to sell of Laurel being a law-abiding do-gooder who transitions into a law-breaking vigilante because she's frustrated with the creaky wheels of justice.

 

In Season 1 (Episode 1.4 - "An Innocent Man"), Laurel said to the vigilante (Oliver): " I didn't become a lawyer to break the law or hurt anybody."  

 

That's ironic, considering Laurel has always just ignored the law or broken the law whenever it suited her:
- She wants to talk to Moira without Moira's lawyer present?  She just does it.
- She wants to reveal prosecutorial strategy to Moira?  She just does it.
- She wants to get out of a DUI charge?  She invokes her ADA status and also her cop dad comes running.
- She wants her DA job back?  She blackmails Kate Spencer.
- She wants her dad out of jail?  She blackmails Kate Spencer.
- She needs to investigate Blood?  She gets a police tech guy to hack into Blood's database.
- She wants to get in to see the injured guy in the hospital bed?  She lies and bullies the police guard using her father's name, and then she assaults the guy.
- She needs to find a break-in witness?  She flashes a badge and threatens Ted Grant with a perjury charge.
- She wants to hit someone?  She takes a bat and attacks the alleged girlfriend abuser.
 

And she gets away with all of it.

Edited October 23, 2014 by tv echo

[KirkB]

I frequently wonder if the writers not-so-secretly hate Laurel.  But I've decided nah, they're just making her super incompetent and irritating now so that when she's kicking ass like a pro by the midseason break, they can talk about how they really put her through her paces to become this awesome Warrior Canary.

 

If anything it would have to be both them and the producers. Even if the writers did hate Laurel, their scripts would never make it to air if the producers didn't either agree with them or let it happen. It would be amusing to find out no one wanted to hire KC but since they couldn't get rid of her because of DC and/or the CW, they chose to do the next best thing and screw with the Laurel character as much as possible.

Edited October 23, 2014 by KirkB

[SonofaBiscuit]

- She wants to get out of a speeding ticket?  She invokes her ADA status.

 

 

Actually, wasn't it worse than that?  Didn't she invoke her ADA status to get out of a DUI? 

[tv echo]

Actually, wasn't it worse than that?  Didn't she invoke her ADA status to get out of a DUI? 

You're right.  My mistake (I'll correct it).

[SonofaBiscuit]

So it sounds like Laurel and Ted didn't have a whole lot of chemistry?  I was actually hoping there would be a spark there so that training with/romancing Ted would become the focus of Laurel's story.  That would have removed her from the arrow lair and gotten her away from the characters that I like.

[TanyaKay]

Honestly, I did not even watch the Laurel getting beaten scene. I mean my TV was switched on but I was squealing and tweeting about Felicity throwing shade at her and being generally happy.

[strikera0]

So it sounds like Laurel and Ted didn't have a whole lot of chemistry?  I was actually hoping there would be a spark there so that training with/romancing Ted would become the focus of Laurel's story.  That would have removed her from the arrow lair and gotten her away from the characters that I like.

 

I was looking forward to Laurel/Ted, but the chemistry was so bad (IMO) that I am now wondering if Ted really is Laurel's potential love interest. Surely, the producers would have chem-tested them if they intended to take the storyline in a romantic direction and I can't believe they did. If they did do a chem-test, everyone must have been high that day because the actors had no natural flow to their scenes. Could it be that Laurel might end up having a little bit of a flirtation with Ra's Al Ghul? I've heard that such a story happened in the comics.

Edited October 23, 2014 by strikera0

[Danny Franks]

I was looking forward to Laurel/Ted, but the chemistry was so bad (IMO) that I am now wondering if Ted really is Laurel's potential love interest. Surely, the producers would have chem-tested them if they intended to take the storyline in a romantic direction and I can't believe they did. If they did do a chem-test, everyone must have been high that day because the actors had no natural flow in their scenes. Could it be that Laurel might end up having a little bit of a flirtation with Ra's Al Ghul? I've heard that such a story happened in the comics.

 

It did happen, in a Birds of Prey story. Dinah didn't know who Ra's was, and I think she may have been slightly brainwashed at the time (as happens to women quite a bit in comics). Luckily, her true love, Babs Gordon, saved her.

 

Maybe they deliberately picked a guy with even less chemistry with Katie Cassidy than Stephen Amell, just to try and convince fans that the original pairing wasn't that bad after all. Wouldn't surprise me.

[Chaser]

I had trouble with the Laurel meets Ted Grant scene. Mostly because I couldn't figure out why she would even be there and I keep taking my eyes off the screen to roll them with all those anvils.

 

I also couldn't figure out why they did such a hard first meet between them. Maybe they would have chemistry if they had softened her approach, coming in swinging like that didn't do her any favors. Can blame her for it all though, Ted didn't come off great to me either.

[Zalyn]

Refresh my memory: When Sara was introduced, didn't she intervene (as Canary) to save a woman who was being attacked by a man in an alleyway? 

 

It's stuck in my craw that Laurel (in her ski mask with baseball bat, lol) went and hunted a guy down to beat him up.  It seems like she should know how cycles of abuse work (from being a lawyer with CNRI, sadly underdeveloped) - that using violence on someone who uses violence to dominate only reinforces their worldview.  I find that I would have felt better about that story thread if she'd intervened to save the woman as she was being threatened.  But even if Laurel hadn't been woefully unprepared, what would she have done to the guy?  Killed him?  Dragged his body in to the police? 

 

I guess it was meant to show how ANGRY! and FIERY! Laurel is, but when even Roy is mellow, it just feels out of place.

[SonofaBiscuit]

Maybe Ted was intended to be Laurel's love interest but the EPs scrapped that plan after watching the couple's scenes play out.  I can't imagine that they'd go with Ra's because Matt Nable looks quite a bit older than KC.  This is the CW, where young hot people belong with other young hot people.  I guess that Laurel could have a romance in the cards later on this season, but KC didn't seem to know anything about that when interviewed (which could mean anything, really).    

[Sakura12]

Refresh my memory: When Sara was introduced, didn't she intervene (as Canary) to save a woman who was being attacked by a man in an alleyway? 

 

Roy intervened to save a woman being threatened by thugs, then when Roy was out of his league going up against 3 attackers with knifes, the Canary came to his rescue. That was Sara as BC's introduction and it was badass. 

 

Laurel's introduction as BC was beating up an injured unarmed man in a hospital bed (who I don't think actually did anything wrong) and attacking a man with a baseball bat (did she get proof he did anything? I didn't watch the ep). 

 

The difference between Laurel doing that and Sara is, we've seen Sara's reasoning for going after misogynist criminals from her time being manipulated and threatened by men. "No woman should ever suffer at the hands of men" that was her worldview. They never showed us Laurel's worldview and she had 49 episodes. So now it just looks like it's out of nowhere or she's SWFemaling Sara.

Edited October 23, 2014 by Sakura12

[Starfish35]

Dumb question, because I haven't been watching - DID Laurel end up being the DA or not? I know before the season premiered we were discussing whether she'd be taking over Kate Spencer's job, and then Sara died and I forgot about it. But now I'm curious. What happened there?

[SmallScreenDiva]

I don't believe she's the DA, only works for the DA's office (an ADA maybe?). There was a scene in the premiere where she mentions what she does exactly. I think it's the one with Oliver in it. Maybe someone else remembers it more vividly? I'd offer to check, but it's Laurel and I try to watch her scenes only once (bad for my health :P )

[Starfish35]

Thanks. So Kate Spencer died for no reason I guess? Weird. Not that I was attached to the character, but I figured they killed her off so Laurel could take the job.

[JenMD]

I thought she specifically identified herself to Ted at one point as a District Attorney because I remember groaning since up 'til then it's been vague, "working for the DA's office" type of thing.  It's possible I misheard or she was speaking generally of the DA's office.

[Happy Harpy]

Taken from the Hope and Fears thread, about the Saving Private Laurel campaign that I believe is set for S3.

 

Maybe being involved in the main plot as a fait accompli will make Laurel seem less useless, maybe being a "kickass" woman in the most simple sense of the term will be enough to vow part of the audience, maybe "phasing out" her "rivals" (Sara and Felicity, Diggle to a lesser extent) will do good for the perception of her character.

But I'm not sure that it will work better than any of the writers' other attempts in order to redeem her and increase her popularity. Because imo, their approach is completely wrong.

It isn't because of Sara that Laurel isn't credible as the Black Canary in my eyes.

It isn't because of Felicity that Laurel and Oliver aren't credible as soulmates in my eyes.

It isn't because of Diggle and Felicity that Laurel isn't credible as Oliver's partner in crime-fighting.

It's because of Laurel. Of Laurel as she was created, of Laurel as she's been written, of Laurel as she's been played. It's because of the relationship between Laurel and Oliver, as it was conceived, as it's been written, as it's been playing onscreen.

 

The EPs have imo done nothing but apply to the character of Laurel what had worked with others. And, still imo, to no avail so far.

For example, Laurel's "crucible" was a redux of Thea's Vertigo storyline, which was a low for the latter, but also the opportunity to grow and seemingly got some people more interested in her. Yet, I don't think the addiction storyline made Laurel more sympathetic or increased her popularity, on the opposite I've seen many people state that it made them actively dislike her.

And now they give her characteristics/attributes from Felicity and Sara, but those characters are very different from Laurel. Felicity is guileless and warm under her smarts, Sara broken and fragile under her strength. Laurel doesn't have the same personality, hence it imo doesn't work for her.

 

Moreover, the portrayal of "kickass" Laurel seems so far plagued with the same general nonsense as it has since the beginning. In S1, Laurel talks about knowing how to use a gun...and it jams. In S3, Laurel tries to shoot a gun...and failed to notice it didn't have bullets. In S2, Laurel tries to master the Arrow copycats and gets her ass handed to her. In S3, Laurel goes after an abuser and gets her ass handed to her. I can't think of anything more counter-productive, since imo it only makes her look inept. And yes, if she succeeed immediately, she would be accused of being Canary Sue...but once again, it's because of the way they defined the character to start with, that the writers are confronted to this kind of conundrum imo.

The only difference I see in S3, is that she doesn't act in self-defense anymore...and actually, her acts are legally and/or morally reprehensible now. I don't know if it's a good strategy, considering that her goody-two-shoes lawyer persona is the one that imo gets the less venom.

See, when Sara appeared as a crusader against abusers, the abusers in question were in the process of committing a crime, and she saved both their victim and Roy (IIRC). She didn't appear in an alley with a baseball bat to attack a guy who wasn't doing anything at the moment. All is in the context, and imo Laurel's current behavior is more that of a thug than of an avenger, less of a super heroine. Even at the worst of the "body count issue" in S1, Oliver was trying to achieve a goal and help people. On the paper, Laurel gives the impression that she wants someone, anyone, to pay for Sara's death and her own suffering.

As other have stated, she seems addicted to anger this time, and again, since her addict persona is seemingly the one who worked less with the audience, it's imo quite of a gamble to choose this one for her trip to her "destiny".

Edited October 26, 2014 by Happy Harpy

[KirkB]

The weird thing for me is that if I came into this show with no knowledge of the characters or the comics (just the fact it was based on a comic book) and was shown the progression of Laurel's character I would assume she was being groomed as a villain. Or at most an anti-hero. Oliver is a vigilante who hurts people and may be operating outside the law but he is genuinely trying to help people. I don't get that sense from Laurel.

[statsgirl]

 

I don't get that sense from Laurel.

Even when Laurel is doing something good, like beating up the abuser, she's doing it to make herself feel better, not because it is good in and of itself.  (That's what Quentin did, he got the guy arrested on outstanding warrants.)  And Oliver is about honoring his father, he targets bad people on the list and he makes them return  money that they have stolen. If they return it, he leaves them alone. Diggle supports him in helping others who need help, Felicity encourages him to use only as much violence as he needs to.

 

Thea is being trained by a psychopath, so if she starts out as a villain, there is room for her to realize how wrong he was and turn to the good side.

 

But Laurel is starting out on the good side, but using tactics/motivations (I don't quite know what word to use)  that are better suited for the other side.   She keeps stumbling because she's too eager to kill (no bullets in the gun, Komodo innocent of killing Sara), or not prepared (unprepared to fight gf beater).

 

Would the show really be willing to break with comic canon that much to make her an anti-hero? It would be make an interesting story, as Oliver has to work with her as he tried to with Helena, but I think AK and MG love her too much to do that.

[fantique]

I guess it was meant to show how ANGRY! and FIERY! Laurel is, but when even Roy is mellow, it just feels out of place.

I think this is spot on. My second biggest problem (after the fact that they are once again trying to make us connect with her through her anger as opposed to her love for her sister) is that she still doesn't feel like she fits the show she's in. She now maybe fits Arrow season 1 but everyone else is in a different book of the series. Laurel Lance is "missed opportunities" exemplified and personified. I am mystified.  

[Danny Franks]

And Nyssa. :)

 

And Thea.

 

But not Laurel, because she'd be the one sour-faced bitch who ruins the party for everyone else because she got a parking ticket. And you know that means that the whole world is against her and it's just not fair!

[pivot]

I just started watching this show on Netflix and have been marathoning it. I am halfway through season 2 and I can't believe the changes in the actress who plays Laurel from season 1 to season 2. She is so skinny that it is disturbing to watch her onscreen. Thankfully, she's been mostly a background player this season. For those who are currently watching the show, does she look normal again in season 3 or even better does she ride off into the sunset with her mumbly father never to be seen again?

I am going to feel really bad if it turns out the actress is fighting cancer or has some other reason for her alarming appearance.

[Morrigan2575]

She's much healthier looking this season sadly no she didn't leave in fact she's more prominent in S3. However, I love Captain Chest Hair...he can never leave.

Edited October 29, 2014 by Morrigan2575

[Chaser]

I'm always interested in reading what new viewers who marathon the show think. How do the characters come across as a whole? What about the storylines? I would love to read what you think.

Edited October 29, 2014 by 10Eleven12

[NumberCruncher]

I just started watching this show on Netflix and have been marathoning it. I am halfway through season 2 and I can't believe the changes in the actress who plays Laurel from season 1 to season 2. She is so skinny that it is disturbing to watch her onscreen. Thankfully, she's been mostly a background player this season. For those who are currently watching the show, does she look normal again in season 3 or even better does she ride off into the sunset with her mumbly father never to be seen again?

I am going to feel really bad if it turns out the actress is fighting cancer or has some other reason for her alarming appearance.

Some have speculated that KC lost weight to coincide with her S2 addiction storyline, but I don't think anyone really knows the real reason why. She does look a little healthier in S3 but still not like she did in S1. I don't know if it's all the physical training she's doing for the role or what the deal is, but be prepared for more Laurel once you get to S3.

[bTW I love Quentin Lance and his mumbly self]

[Danny Franks]

She's much healthier looking this season sadly no she didn't leave in fact she's more prominent in S3. However, I love Captain Chest Hair...he can never leave.

 

She sure isn't attractive though. I don't know if it's just my antipathy for the character, my contempt for the woman's acting abilities or what, but I just find Katie Cassidy a complete turn off. I can see that she's aesthetically pleasing, but I really, really don't find her appealing at all.

 

But then, she's genuinely been the least attractive of the young female characters, anyway. EBR, Caity Lotz, Willa Holland, Summer Glau, Jessica De Gauw, Janina Gavankar (Shiva!). All more attractive than Katie Cassidy, however you slice it. So I guess it leaves me even more baffled that they would push her ahead of all those women. Just like I was left utterly befuddled when White Collar elected to make Hilary Burton their main love interest for Neal, and not the smoking, absurdly hot Gloria Votsis.

[Sakura12]

I have pretty much started calling anyone that doesn't fit in the show, the Laurel of the show. That what White Collar's, Sara was.  

 

What I wanted was for Arrow do with Sara, what White Collar does with Alex. She pops up every once in awhile to help (or in Alex's case con, steal and kiss Neal) then she leaves, all while never stopping being a badass. She's not there to replace anyone or stick around for the long term. Like Sara, Alex worked well with the rest of the cast. Although I don't think Gloria Votsis is going to be in the final season. I hope she at least as a small cameo so we know where Alex is before the end (and hopefully it's not dead). Laurel can't be that for Arrow with Cassidy being a regular. She needs to be in most of the episodes and we'll have to watch her entire transition from training to super hero. Which is unnecessary being the show is called Arrow not Black Canary. They saved themselves the trouble with having Sara already highly trained, then threw her away to start from scratch. Why? 

 

 

 

[blixie]

 

I have pretty much started calling anyone that doesn't fit in the show, the Laurel of the show.

 

Haha, we've started using her as the Lower Limit to compare "bad" characters to. Like Iris and Eddie on The Flash? Not great, but also, NOT LAUREL!  Katrina Crane on Sleepy Howell, is pretty terrible herself, but still, NOT LAUREL! 

[Sakura12]

Katrina is definitely the Laurel of Sleepy Hallow. Someone that should be important but is mostly useless and unnecessary. 

 

Laurel has surpassed Lana Lang as my most hated character. I continued to watch Smallville despite Lana but I can't bring myself to keep watching Arrow with Laurel still existing. 

[Starfish35]

My previous most hated character was Allison Cameron on House, but Laurel has left her in the dust. :( But I really like Emma on OUAT, so who knows. Maybe someday I'll also be a fan of a Katie Cassidy character on a different show - lol. I'm doubtful at the moment, but stranger things have happened I suppose. :)

[Shanna]

Katrina is definitely the Laurel of Sleepy Hallow. Someone that should be important but is mostly useless and unnecessary. .

She also has that " there because of canon but doesn't really work" thing going. But sleepy hollow keeps her off camera much more often.

Laurel - why is she a lawyer if she just wants all these people straight up murdered?

[Happy Harpy]

Reading the comments about 3x04, maybe this thread should be renamed with something like Laurel Lance: Shut up!

 

 

Laurel - why is she a lawyer if she just wants all these people straight up murdered?

You just made me realize that I could sum-up my views and my feelings about the character in two words.

Laurel - why?

 

Being petty and snarky works wonder on Laurel-related bitterness.

[wonderwall]

You know, I've been seeing a lot of people saying that Laurel is being let into the A-plot and it got me wondering... Is she really? Is Laurel more integral to the show now? I don't think so because if you still take Laurel out of the equation, what would change? There would certainly be less people barking orders at other people and Quentin would probably know about Sara...  And both of these seem so much better than what we're being offered right now. Laurel is on a separate arc to become BC that has nothing (and should have nothing) to do with Team Arrow. She's still not essential to the show and it makes me roll my eyes to see just how hard the writers are trying to make her relevant. It's clearly not working because even in trying to find Sara's killer, Laurel offers very little to no help. 

[Happy Harpy]

 

Laurel is on a separate arc to become BC that has nothing (and should have nothing) to do with Team Arrow.

That's it, precisely. She has nothing to do, and should have nothing to do.

She's damned if she does and if she doesn't.

The character imo can't get out of the conundrum.

[calliope1975]

You know, I've been seeing a lot of people saying that Laurel is being let into the A-plot and it got me wondering... Is she really? Is Laurel more integral to the show now? I don't think so because if you still take Laurel out of the equation, what would change? There would certainly be less people barking orders at other people and Quentin would probably know about Sara...  And both of these seem so much better than what we're being offered right now. Laurel is on a separate arc to become BC that has nothing (and should have nothing) to do with Team Arrow. She's still not essential to the show and it makes me roll my eyes to see just how hard the writers are trying to make her relevant. It's clearly not working because even in trying to find Sara's killer, Laurel offers very little to no help. 

 

This is the problem for me. Look, at this point, there's nothing TPTB could do to make me like Laurel. They've failed this viewer on that topic for 50 episodes. But I might have been more tolerable of her if any of her story seemed like a logical character progression. I don't like Thea being in cahoots with Merlyn, but I understand it based on what Thea's been through for 2 years. Since Laurel's never been a consistent character, I have no idea what she should be doing now. 

 

So Laurel's on her way to being BC (I can't even type out the name for her) and since this show is all about Oliver, they throw her in the Arrow Cave. But she doesn't fit because there has been no reason for 46 episodes for Laurel to be around Digg, Felicity or Roy. And because she doesn't fit and there's no real reason for her to be there, we get her barking orders at Team Arrow and bitching at Oliver. Last year, many felt Team Arrow were off or too crowded when Sara and Roy joined, but I never felt like it didn't make sense for them to be around. Their skill set and interactions with OG Team Arrow made sense. Laurel doesn't.

[KirkB]

You know, I've been seeing a lot of people saying that Laurel is being let into the A-plot and it got me wondering... Is she really? Is Laurel more integral to the show now? I don't think so because if you still take Laurel out of the equation, what would change? There would certainly be less people barking orders at other people and Quentin would probably know about Sara...  And both of these seem so much better than what we're being offered right now. Laurel is on a separate arc to become BC that has nothing (and should have nothing) to do with Team Arrow. She's still not essential to the show and it makes me roll my eyes to see just how hard the writers are trying to make her relevant. It's clearly not working because even in trying to find Sara's killer, Laurel offers very little to no help.

 

Actually, I think therein lies the problem. Laurel is more involved in that she is in more scenes than she was before, and of course keeps popping up in the lair which is distracting and irritating for a lot of people, but she still isn't DOING anything. Laurel's lack of presence was one thing when she was relegated to being more or less a background character, but they are putting her in the forefront now without actually changing her status. It's bizarre. It's like they want to do more with her but can't actually think of anything. Even the Black Canary thing is going to be a ways off unless they do a time jump or employ Mirakuru or something. At least if she woke up with magical fighting powers it might give her something to do.

[Pyramid]

After watching the latest episode, I realised what's really been bothering me about Laurel's story this year, other than the fact that it's badly acted and written. I can't think of any evidence in the last two season showing that Laurel actually loved Sara, never mind even liking her.
This was highlighted for me when Nyssa showed up and you could feel her pain and loss. With Laurel it's all about being angry and just going off half cocked at anybody and anything. It's like she's using Sara as an excuse to pitch a tanty, Nyssa came in like the righteous thunder of an angry god.

[pivot]

I'm always interested in reading what new viewers who marathon the show think. How do the characters come across as a whole? What about the storylines? I would love to read what you think.

I was looking for an All Seasons thread to talk about my reactions to the first 2 seasons of the show and to ask my questions, but couldn't find one.

Overall, I think they've done a good job with Oliver, his mom, Felicity and Diggs. I think those characters are consistent while still showing growth. I am baffled by the cast choices for Sara and Laurel. The actresses definitely should have swapped roles. Laurel's actress gives off bitchy, bitter and cold vibes even in her warmest scenes and Sara's actress radiates warmth and concern even when playing cold. Plus, season 1 Laurel looked like the girl that would make men stray and Sara looks like the girl next door. I have to wonder if they were originally intending Laurel to be the canary and something made them change their mind at the end of the season. During season 1, she dressed in tight and sexy clothes and had tons of screentime. By season 2, she, thankfully, had minimal screentime and was always covered up in layers of clothes. Usually, that ugly camel colored coat. I'd love to know what happened behind-the-scenes to cause that shift.

As for storylines, I love Team Arrow original version and anything involving them makes me happy. I hated the entire Oliver as CEO storyline because Summer Glau sucks as an actress and it was pointless outside of having Felicity be Oliver's secretary. Overall, I felt like season 2 was a mess. There were too many storylines that didn't come together well and poor usage of some of their characters. There were also way too many characters on the show. It looks like they are addressing that somewhat by getting rid of Thea and mom. I am still not quite done with the season 2 so that may change.

Had I been in charge of the reboot for season 3, I would have sent Laurel, Sara and their father off to the witness protection program or something never to be heard of again. I don't think they fit in the Arrow show and having to create storylines for them makes the show messy. I'd like Arrow to do a case of the week season or have a big bad that isn't focused on Oliver and his past. And I'd give Felicity and Diggs more screentime and storylines independent of Oliver. They are the most interesting of the supporting cast. The rest are a pile of meh.

[doesntworkonwood]

You know, I've been seeing a lot of people saying that Laurel is being let into the A-plot and it got me wondering... Is she really? 

 

No. I don't think she has been in the A-Plot at all, besides episode 2. I've been able to comfortably skip all of her scenes, and still completely understand everything thing that has happened on the show. I'm just relying on these boards to fill me in if something important happens, and nothing important has. 

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm super glad about that, but I think it shows a pretty fundamental error on the writers part. Presumably, they've increased her screen time because they've decided that she should play a more pivitol role, but she's not. She's just there, and there is no way that they're going to change the minds of her detractors (which I'm assuming is what they're aiming for) if they're giving them the option of skipping her scenes. It just makes her seem more useless, and people more bitter that she's taking up screen time. If it takes me half and hour to watch a fourty minute show, they're not doing a good job. 

Edited October 30, 2014 by doesntworkonwood

[Morrigan2575]

I was looking for an All Seasons thread to talk about my reactions to the first 2 seasons of the show and to ask my questions, but couldn't find one.

We had one, they locked it down and won't unlock it (I've asked).

If you want to discuss the past 2 seasons you have to go to the bitterness thread (if it made you angry) or the happy thoughts thread (if it was something you liked).

Edited October 30, 2014 by Morrigan2575

[dtissagirl]

Laurel's raison d'etre this season is to become BC. But if we look at her A-plot involvement [i.e. helping solve the problem of the week], it went from shooting an empty gun at a suspect without even checking if he was guilty first, to yelling at actual vigilantes to kill people for her because she can't do it herself [because of in way over her head reasons that were the B-plot last week]. This is not character development in any way, shape or form, sorry.

Edited October 30, 2014 by dancingnancy

[Chaser]

They have to drag out the Sara mystery until they make Laurel Black Canary because there is no other purpose for Laurel to be in the Foundry. She offers no particular skills to the Team except as a connection to the DA's office (which doesn't require her to be there). Even with Sara's murder investigation its just a lot grand speechs and pantsuit posing. What is the one thing she did? Pull up the cameras. That's something Felicity would be all about and her knowledge of the LOA communications felt like something Oliver would have known or even Felicity (Felicity commented in Sara that they had talked about the LOA related stuff and it wouldn't suprise me if Felicity asked about technology and how they keep in contact).

[pivot]

Ah, I'll wait until I am current on the show then and post in the bitterness/happiness threads.

Edited October 30, 2014 by pivot

[statsgirl]

You know, I've been seeing a lot of people saying that Laurel is being let into the A-plot and it got me wondering... Is she really? 

To put Laurel into the A plot, they essentially made the A plot about her -- Who killed Sara?  and  How does Laurel extract revenge and reach her destiny of Black Canary?

 

She still doesn't fit into the show as a whole, although she will when (if, please!) she become the Black Canary because presumably she'll take Sara's place fighting at Oliver side.  The problem is I don't think it will ever be organic because the role KC plays best is not the role the show intended for her.  I think they should have left her for a season working the legal aspect for Team Arrow so that she really does prove part of the A plot and then have her grow into BC  Doing it now is what leads to the speculation that being BC is in Cassidy's contract.

 

I am baffled by the cast choices for Sara and Laurel. The actresses definitely should have swapped roles. Laurel's actress gives off bitchy, bitter and cold vibes even in her warmest scenes and Sara's actress radiates warmth and concern even when playing cold. Plus, season 1 Laurel looked like the girl that would make men stray and Sara looks like the girl next door. I have to wonder if they were originally intending Laurel to be the canary and something made them change their mind at the end of the season. 

I agree it would have been much better if the actresses had swapped roles.  But Katie Cassidy was hired first specifically to play the role of Dinah Laurel Lance who becomes the Black Canary (possibly even before Stephen Amell if you believe her interviews).  My best guess is that the EPs realized that Laurel wasn't ready to be the Black Canary in season 2 and made Sara the Canary to stall for a year, and the way Caity Lotz took that role and made it shine surprised them.  

[wonderwall]

Well the mystery is going to be solved by the mid season finale (or so I heard), I really wonder how the writers are going to make Laurel relevant after. I honestly don't think they can. What, will Laurel just come barging downstairs ordering people to give her a mission or...? Even then I won't believe Laurel going on missions considering I hardly believe Roy is going on missions. 

[catrox14]

There is nothing the show can do to redeem Laurel for me. It is a failure of the writing and acting. For me personally it's a failure of acting mostly. I can't like her, or love to hate her like malcolm because KC has zero charisma.

Even as a villain she can't be only snark and barking orders because she has too much screen time for that to remain interesting. Malcolm works because JB gives Malcolm nuance and shading and he knows how to deliver a ridiculous line that teeters on being OTT but never goes there. He gives Malcolm an internal life that makes me believe that he really thinks what he does is reasonable which is why he's a good villain IMO. In one scene with Tommy I fully believed that Malcolm truly loved his wife and was destroyed by her death which compelled him to do what he did and then his time on nanda parbat scrambled with his mind that he thinks he's right. He's an awful person and deserves to die but I actually care about his story. And that isn't only because of writing.

SURE Laurel thinks what she is doing is right but she theoretically not crazy. And IMO Laurel is not a good person. So try getting to retcon her to loving her sister so much that she wants to honor and avenge her death doesn't fly with me.

Laurel cannot provide comfort or relief to anyone in her life. She has made Saras death about Her. She does not want to tell Lance that Sarah is dead because then she'll have to see beyond herself.

Edited October 30, 2014 by catrox14

[yellowfred]

I actually think, once the mystery element is gone, Laurel might have a clearer purpose.  Right now, she's just trying to find something to direct her anger at, and largely failing.  Once she knows who killed Sara and why, she'll have an immediate target and probably some larger principal to uphold.  There's a reason Peter Parker's whole origin story isn't about figuring out who killed Uncle Ben; once he understood the full picture of it (that Uncle Ben was killed by a random criminal that Peter could have easily stopped), he had a clearer trajectory for who he wanted to be. 

 

I imagine (well, hope) that Laurel will have some similar epiphany moment.  If her whole journey to becoming the Black Canary is about her turning impotent, directionless rage into slightly more potent, directionless rage, I'll be extremely disappointed (and also probably not watching anymore).

[wonderwall]

I actually think, once the mystery element is gone, Laurel might have a clearer purpose. 

But the question is, will Laurel's 'purpose' be relevant to the plot? Will it be relevant to team Arrow? Or will she still be a superfluous character going on her own journey? One that takes away precious screentime from those who actually are relevant to the plot. Why is it that I feel like the second Laurel took center stage was the moment all these plot holes and inconsistencies in the writing started to come up? I feel like the writers are just doing everything they can to accommodate Laurel's arc and it's just making the rest of the show suffer. I'm not saying that it's all Laurel's fault. I'm just saying that she's probably a big reason why this stuff is happening. 

[ostentatious]

One of the big problems with Laurel is that she's 30 damn years old. The processes she's going through are palatable when gone through by 18-22 yos, which covers Oliver, Sara, Roy, Thea. But she's several years out of law school, an established professional. It just feels...immature. If she was 20 this would be fine.