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S03.E01: The Great War and Modern Memory / S03.E02: Kiss Tomorrow Goodbye

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On 1/15/2019 at 10:15 AM, BingeyKohan said:

 we need to know, for example, whether he really watched CHiPS that night!

 

There was not a new Chips episode that night - did he watch a rerun?

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11 hours ago, teddysmom said:

 

21 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

He was the Vietnam veteran "trash collector." They seem to believe he's the killer, and it seems he was convicted, but my money's on him being innocent. I think we're supposed to assume it's really the uncle, but I'm not sure.

No he's a convicted pedophile that lived in a different town, the Vice Dept Detective gave them the lead.  They found out he works at a daycare center and went to talk to the owner, told her he wouldn't be coming back. 

The trash collector wasn't in the 2nd episode. 

Oops. I thought he just looked different because they beat him up.

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Oh yeah, you can totally see them going back to their season one roots, and trying desperately to pretend the second season didnt happen. As long as they can find some new ground to cover, which it seems like they will, I am totally alright with that. I loved the first season, so I am excited to see what happens with this, as it returns to its southern gothic roots. If you see birds flying in a circle or hear a guy with an out of place British accent, run!

Mahershala Ali is already amazing in this, he is nailing all three of the time periods. You can see the differences in Hays in each time, but you can also tell its the same guy. There are lots of questions already, both with the case, and in his personal life. What happened with Julie and her dad? Is this a cult? Why are Hays and his daughter estranged? What exactly was the book about that his wife wrote? Who was the killer, and why did they kill the boy and not the girl? Whats with the dolls?

I kind of cracked up at older Hays responding to the TV lady talking about race in the police force, but in super fancy talk, and he just kind of looked at his son like "what is this lady talking about?" then he just shrugged it off. Really, he seemed to be very aware of the racial politics of the police department, just he played it cool mostly, and the racial stuff was all pretty subtle. I actually like that they dont seem to be focusing on race specifically in this case, but its still very much there in the background. There tends to sometimes be a tendency to have a show that stars a black person become specifically about "black issues" or something, like thats the only thing you can write about with a black lead. 

I like Amelia, but there seems to be something kind of weird about her. The same with both Hays and his partner. Even the good guys have some dark edges, we will have to wait and see where that goes. 

It looks like we might get a little rock three kind of story, as well as a few other inspirations. This was right around the time of the satanic panic, and its easy to see people jumping on anything "weird" as the killer. I am already excited to see what happens! 

Edited by tennisgurl
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Did anyone else think it was a little anachronistic that the detectives in 1980 were unfamiliar with the band Black Sabbath?

 

 

1 hour ago, tennisgurl said:

I kind of cracked up at older Hays responding to the TV lady talking about race in the police force, but in super fancy talk, and he just kind of looked at his son like "what is this lady talking about?"

Heh, I thought maybe his look was more like, "Does she even know what the hell she's talking about?" 
From the closed captioning transcript:

Quote

 I'm interested in the intersectionality of marginalized groups within authoritarian and systemic racist structures.

Edited by shapeshifter · Reason: Spacing for clarity
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7 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

There are lots of questions already, both with the case, and in his personal life. What happened with Julie and her dad? Is this a cult? Why are Hays and his daughter estranged? What exactly was the book about that his wife wrote? Who was the killer, and why did they kill the boy and not the girl? Whats with the dolls?

And how did his wife die?

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On 1/14/2019 at 3:50 AM, thuganomics85 said:

No surprise, Mahershala Ali alone is making this must see for me.  He truly is one of the best actors out there and I'm glad that he is starting to get his due now.  Even if the season flies off the rails, I hope he continues to shine here.

Of course, the rest of the cast are no slouches either.  Can't remember the last time I've seen Stephen Dorff in anything, but I enjoy him here and, hey, maybe this can help boost him a bit.  Always love Carmen Ejogo and Scott McNairy.  And more recognizable faces in the form of Brett Cullen, Ray Fisher (poor Cyborg!  It wasn't your fault Justice League ended up disappointing), Tim Griffin, and Michael Greyeyes.  Also, it took me till the second episode to place Jon Tenney, which is kind of funny since I'm currently binging The Closer for the first time as well.

Definitely think that Pizzolatto took a look at the criticism from season two and has decided to go back to season one's format, which runs the risk of being too familiar.  Hopefully he'll find a good balance here.  It's too bad that Jeremy Sauliner only directed these two episodes, because I do feel like the show benefits from having the same director.  Of course, in my perfect world, Pizzolatto would make up with Cary Fukunaga and create television magic again...

Still, I'm curious to see how this case plays out, so that alone is a win.  Factor in Mahershala Ali being his normal awesome self and, well, no complaints here!

I'm a fan of Jeremy Saulnier's movies, so I was excited when I learned he was attached to TD as a director. It's definitely too bad he's only doing 2 eps. But I'm still looking forward to seeing where the rest of the season goes.

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On 1/13/2019 at 10:17 PM, Giant Misfit said:

It's so much like S1 that it almost feels like it is S1 redux.

The story is interesting enough, and I like all the actors so I'm going to keep watching. I like the nonlinear storytelling over the 3 time periods, and the reveal that the girl is still out there was a surprise. I did also like they included Vietnam and talked around PTSD. I assume it wasn't diagnosed as such back then, but the detectives certainly knew it was an issue - 'people came back different'. There's the racial undertones too that adds another layer. 

I'm not one that gets too too in to tv shows. I thought S2 wasn't the dreck people made it out to be. TPTBs said the series was meant to be different season to season. People wanted S1 again and they weren't going to do that. So I'm a little disappointed at the seemingly formulaic return to S1. I hope the story unfolds differently, and I think they're smart enough to do that. 

I've liked Ali since The 4400, and I'm the type of person that tends to follow actors.

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I am back !!! :P

This season is shaping to be a good one a la season 1.  I just could not pull myself away from the screen.

The acting was superb and there were so much chemistry between the 2 detectives and also detective & teacher (I can't remember names :P)

I like how the racial tension is not the focus but still in the background (both for the detective and the teacher)

On 1/16/2019 at 9:09 AM, Milburn Stone said:

Is anyone else having trouble understanding a lot of what Mahershala says? I've never had this problem with him before--in House of Cards, or Moonlight, or in any other role. I assume he's taking on a more colloquial southern African-American speech pattern for this role, which is appropriate, but personally I wish he'd "split the difference" in the direction of better diction. Of course he's blowing me away with his performance as he always does, but I hate having to choose between the distraction of closed-captioning and the distraction of always having to ask "What did he just say?"

I could not understand the old / present day without subtitles, but the 80s & 90s versions were fine

On 1/17/2019 at 1:03 AM, shapeshifter said:

Did anyone else think it was a little anachronistic that the detectives in 1980 were unfamiliar with the band Black Sabbath?

I thought that was just a technique to rattle the kid by associating him with devil worshippers

On 1/17/2019 at 1:03 AM, shapeshifter said:

Heh, I thought maybe his look was more like, "Does she even know what the hell she's talking about?" 

I thought the look was along the line of "you are right son", referring to earlier conversation when the son told him the TV director did not care about the the case, just about her own TV program

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On 1/17/2019 at 12:58 AM, tennisgurl said:

There are lots of questions already, both with the case, and in his personal life. What happened with Julie and her dad? Is this a cult? Why are Hays and his daughter estranged? What exactly was the book about that his wife wrote? Who was the killer, and why did they kill the boy and not the girl? Whats with the dolls?

 

The book that the wife wrote was about this case.

Not sure if speculation is allowed here.

Spoiler

I'm wondering if Hays' daughter is actually dead. Far fetched, I know, but there was something really off with his family's reaction to him asking about her.

Edited by Gobi
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I liked it.  It’s hard to follow all the dialogue so I had to pause it a few times and rewatch some scenes. The acting is great and I’m glad Stephen Dorff has a legit acting job after all these years.  I’ve liked him since The Power of One.  

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This is already better then S2. They have captured the feel of the first season as intended.

I am impressed with Stephen Dorff and while I know Mahershala Ali will get the love hopefully Stephen will as well.

It was tough watching them find William's body.  

In the 1980's the fear of "Satanic Power" was a real issue. The talk shows including Oprah ran something on it. I wonder if that will come into play especially with the teens. I assume we will see Rhys Wakefield as an adult since he is 30 lol. Him being just a teenager is a stretch lol.

Wonder where Julie was the whole time? Who took her? Good questions for the season. 

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On ‎1‎/‎14‎/‎2019 at 5:52 PM, crookedjackson44 said:

I am most impressed with the character's makeup.  He looks absolutely authentic at each age.  I don't know much about Ali, so I assume the 1990 character is his real face, but the 2015 character looks real, too.

The way he physically inhabits his body at each age is fantastic.  I've never seen the actor before, but he is excellent.

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I'm already hooked. I actually didn't see a lot of the season one connections some of you did. I see the kids connection now, but I still think it's different. The first dead body we saw in season one was grown woman. The Yellow King had his fingers in a lot of shit (ew). The pedophile ring ended up being a huge issue, but I have a feeling this is something different. 

The main link I see is the time jumps and just the general "vibe". But I'm digging it. Season one may have been the most beautiful tv creation I've ever seen, so I'm here for it. (I never even watched the second season, heard too many bad things.)

I'm most impressed by Ali. Not just the acting, but the makeup and shifts in character between all three time periods. Very impressive. 

I also enjoy how the racial angles are subtle and not taking over the entire plot. I really felt for Hays when he wished Stephen's character (sorry I'm bad with names) would have handled his "tribe". But I also got that Stephen was like, "I'm not part of their tribe! They're all politics and constituents and I just want to solve cases". I think the show is paying mad respect to all the nuances of police work, race relations, politics, etc. They're not oversimplifying things. Well done. 

I know we know the boy is dead and the girl is still ALIVE. But there's so much more we don't know. I'm not bored at all. I did get WM3 vibes in the first episode; but I almost feel that was a red herring. I'm not getting that at all anymore. 

 

I just want to touch on one more thing that was talked about in this thread - the peephole. I'd have to go back and watch, but I swear it was looking out into the living room. It was definitely in the boy's closet. And I felt I saw a couch or chairs when they looked through it. It didn't feel like a bedroom to me. If that's the case, then the uncle was looking at the boy, because he stayed in the boy's room and Will stayed on the couch while he was there. 

Edited by ghoulina
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17 minutes ago, ghoulina said:

I just want to touch on one more thing that was talked about in this thread - the peephole. I'd have to go back and watch, but I swear it was looking out into the living room. It was definitely in the boy's closet. And I felt I saw a couch or chairs when they looked through it. It didn't feel like a bedroom to me. If that's the case, then the uncle was looking at the boy, because he stayed in the boy's room and Will stayed on the couch while he was there. 

That's what I thought, too.

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6 minutes ago, ghoulina said:

I think the show is paying mad respect to all the nuances of police work, race relations, politics, etc. They're not oversimplifying things. Well done. 

This has got to be tough to maintain. I hope they can. Maybe even Library of Congress National Film Registry worthy. But I'll be satisfied if at the end of the series I'm glad I spent the time on it. As amazing a season one was, in hindsight I don't feel I gained insight or was enriched or learned anything from it. Season 2 has been totally erased from my mind.

 

On 1/14/2019 at 4:52 PM, crookedjackson44 said:

I am most impressed with the character's makeup.  He looks absolutely authentic at each age.  I don't know much about Ali, so I assume the 1990 character is his real face, but the 2015 character looks real, too.

During the Jimmy Kimmel interview this week, Mahershala Ali said that he was worried going into the project that the makeup would be cheesey, but that the makeup artist did not disappoint and that without him, the series would not have worked. 

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On 1/20/2019 at 9:12 AM, ghoulina said:

I just want to touch on one more thing that was talked about in this thread - the peephole. I'd have to go back and watch, but I swear it was looking out into the living room. It was definitely in the boy's closet. And I felt I saw a couch or chairs when they looked through it. It didn't feel like a bedroom to me. If that's the case, then the uncle was looking at the boy, because he stayed in the boy's room and Will stayed on the couch while he was there. 

The peephole was looking into another bedroom.  Frankly, I thought it was the master bedroom but it could have been the girl's instead.

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I was certain I saw the girl's toys through the peephole. Am surprised people her think it was looking somewhere else.

Edited by smartymarty
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I dunno, I thought the peephole looked onto the living room as well.  If the boy was sleeping there, maybe there were also toys there?  Every living room in a house with little kids that I've been in has been littered with toys, and it didn't strike me that either the mother or father were great housekeepers.  

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Can someone screen grab it? Maybe they'd have a pic on Reddit. I deleted the episode, but it's bothering me now. LOL

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Definitely the daughter’s room. I just rewatched the scene. Hays and West go investigate her room first and you can see a dresser with dolls and a book face down. West looks through the peep hole later on and sees the same dresser with the dolls and book. 

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9 hours ago, Direwolf said:

Definitely the daughter’s room. I just rewatched the scene. Hays and West go investigate her room first and you can see a dresser with dolls and a book face down. West looks through the peep hole later on and sees the same dresser with the dolls and book. 

Thanks! I guess I was remembering it wrong. There's always so many little details to try and retain with this show. 

That does make more sense - if you look at the creepy uncle as the kidnapper. I definitely thought more attention should be given to him.  

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Random thoughts...although I'm horrible at piecing these things together and am likely wrong on all counts :(

It seems odd an adult trying to get away with a crime would leave so much at the cave, i.e. the dolls, the bag of toys, the brother's dice.  Someone wanted the boy found.

I wonder if the siblings and Mike (the boy who cried when interviewed who said he want as Luke Skywalker for Halloween) were playing at the site together.  Mike was there because the bag of toys contained Star Wars action figures.  Plus, the toys were not familiar to either of Julie's and her brother's parents.

Maybe the brother fell and died.  Mike and the sister carried him to the cave.  The sister positioned his body like the communion photo and left her dolls so he would be found.  

This leaves a big question mark, about why it would be that the sister disappeared and Mike went home.  Also, I believe the boy died from blunt force trauma to the head, but his neck was also broken.  Is that something that can happen during a fall?

Anyway, could be that Julie and Mike went to a trusted adult for help afterwards...a friend of the family.    The adult threatened or otherwise convinced Mike not to say anything and then took Julie convincing both kids she would better off with him/her rather than the parents....something like that.

I'm also wondering if the teen owner of the VW is the one who got convicted in error which was likely the result of the politician seeking election.  The two detectives suspect this, but their hands were tied. Or maybe they contributed to it with false evidence of something. 

I don't think Hays' wife is involved.  She seems too obvious. 

I'm leaning toward involvement by Lucy Purcell's brother or someone in the shop Tom worked in (in a preview for an upcoming episode, there is a scene from the shop).  In Season 1, the culprit was someone not involved with the family.  In Season 3, I'm guessing it is just to switch it up.
 


 

Edited by Jextella
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16 hours ago, Jextella said:

I wonder if the siblings and Mike (the boy who cried when interviewed who said he want as Luke Skywalker for Halloween) were playing at the site together.  Mike was there because the bag of toys contained Star Wars action figures.

Tons of kids in 1980 were playing with Star Wars action figures and dressing in Star Wars costumes. I don't see it as a smoking gun. 

Still, Mike went from happily playing his video games to awfully upset and stuttery when Amelia approached him about the doll.  He might know more than what he's telling,

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So I guess Pizzolato spent time watching all 3 episodes of Paradise Lost and reading up on the West Memphis Three for ideas.

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I watched the first episode on Saturday night, and wish I'd been awake enough to watch the second one (I've just finished it). I'm in - although the constant music of doom in the first episode, had me thinking, "Alright, we get it - this is bad". Until the main detective was searching, and found the dolls. Then I got chills.

I don't know why they keep having him look at his wife's picture, and her book, unless they're implying that she was involved, in order to get her writing career off the ground. Or maybe she knew more than she ever told him. I hope not, though. I like them together. 

I haven't seen Stephen Dorff in anything for years, and I liked him here. 

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Just started watching this and I'm blown away so far. Mahershala Ali is just sooo good. I'm really impressed with the different looks at each age. They are even getting the older eyes right. That's one thing that is often a problem when doing the old makeup. They forget that the eyes are supposed to look old too.

I don't care that this one echoes the first season, because that season is a very favorite of mine. Couldn't even make it through season two.

Oh and they are nailing the details of 1980. I was just talking to my husband yesterday about how our bikes had those really high handlebars and then there was Julie riding one. So weird. 

Edited by festivus
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