When They See Us - General Discussion

[Dancingjaneway]

I watched this a few days after it was released on Netflix. I don't think anything has ever made me as mad at this did. These boys had their lives STOLEN from them by a crooked prosecutor and her marry band of KKK cops. They didn't give a shit about catching who really did it they just wanted to put these boys away because they saw them as scum. If they had actually done their jobs they could have saved a woman from being brutally murdered in the same house as her child. The scene with 9/11 shook me to my core because it was  such an amazing way to show the passage of time between the crime and when the were exonerated. Linda & the rest of her crew deserve to spend the rest of their pathetic lives in jail. I'm glad to see that she is getting her ass handed to her. Another aspect is the fact that this jury didn't even do their jobs. The DNA evidence didn't match & the victim couldn't remember her attacker. If it had been a white man they would have found him not guilty.  Ava did an amazing job showing each story & giving people a real insight into what these boys went through & what the system is really like. I have to say that I will never hear Moon River again without thinking about these men and their story. 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Christopher Jackson discusses When They See Us:

 

Jharrel Jerome, Ethan Herisse, Caleel Harris, Marquis Rodriguez & Asante Blackk discuss When They See Us:

[merylinkid]

On 6/2/2019 at 9:36 PM, MrsR said:

I tell ya New Yorkers were a very tough crowd. "Hey when are they going to try that preppie guy who killed that girl in the park.

Still reading through this thread and working through the series.   Its a tough watch.   but this caught my eye.   I remember the Central Park Jogger Case and the Preppie Murder.   For those who don't remember the Preppie Murder, rich white guy strangles nice white guy in park.   This guy is a fucking sociopath.   Not kidding.    he agrees to plead to manslaughter.   Someone is DEAD.   He gets 15 years.   

Central Park jogger case, no one dead (but I will agree the victim was  severely injured and suffers to this day).   Korey gets 15 years for assault, sexual abuse and rape.    Think about that for a  minute.   The 16 year old black kid gets the same time for lesser chargers than the rich white guy.    Korey did not get nearly enough in settlement.   I wish him all the best for the rest of his life.

Edited June 16, 2019 by merylinkid

[AgentRXS]

Is this also the place to discuss the Oprah segment with the actors and the real Exonerated Five?

Wow. I had no idea the extent of the real Korey's mental disability until I saw this. It made me even more sick to my stomach that he suffered the most and was probably the most vulnerable one of them all. All for helping out his friend.

It sickening enough that this was done to 5 innocent boys, but the harshest punishment goes to the mentally disabled one? You send a fucking mentally disabled CHILD to fucking Rikers?

Hell ain't hot enough for anyone involved in that.

[lovinbob]

I am curious to know if Linda Fairstein had any reaction to the Central Park 5 documentary. Because it was when I saw that film, that's when I was positively overcome with grief and anger and shame over what happened to those boys, now men. Sure, she can try to claim Ava DuVernay's work is fiction, but she can't argue with the actual video of these children being interrogated. Which is supported by When They See Us.

[TV Diva Queen]

Is the real interrogation footage out "there" somewhere?  Did WTSU mimic it?  me and the hubby finished episode two last night.  Normally we are bingers.....but for this series we need a couple days break in between.  those poor babies!  Last night when it was over, DH, just got up and went to bed, didn't even say goodnight.  I didn't either.  

[Neurochick]

19 minutes ago, lovinbob said:

I am curious to know if Linda Fairstein had any reaction to the Central Park 5 documentary. Because it was when I saw that film, that's when I was positively overcome with grief and anger and shame over what happened to those boys, now men. Sure, she can try to claim Ava DuVernay's work is fiction, but she can't argue with the actual video of these children being interrogated. Which is supported by When They See Us.

That's a good point.  The Central Park 5 documentary was shown on PBS (and it on Amazon prime now).  It's a good companion piece to this movie because the documentary shows how NYC looked in 1989, which is a lot different than it looks in 2019.

Fairstein's defense of her actions is sadly why these boys were found guilty.  At that time there were a LOT of attacks (not rapes though) in the 80's, where groups of kids would surround people (usually couples) and harass and rob them and local TV news and newspapers (where people got much of their news back then) really had people scared.  So I think one of the reasons they would found guilty is exactly what Fairstein is saying now, that even they didn't commit THAT crime (which was WHAT THEY WERE TRIED FOR), they would have done something else.  

[lovinbob]

Just finally finished watching. It was so harrowing to watch, which I feel like an asshole saying. 

Jharrell Jerome gave one of the greatest performances I have ever seen. He is only 21 years old—I am seriously in awe.

I absolutely loved the closing shots of the men. Seeing the beauty in them, and somewhat of a sense of peace, was needed at the end of this. I know it's not over for these guys, not by a long shot. But I feel a sense of hope that they are recovering their lives and finally receiving nationwide recognition of their innocence. 

My good friend is an art teacher who taught Yusuf in a Saturday program he was a part of. She said he was a wonderful child and his mother was impressive. For some reason I feel like I know him. In a way I feel like I know all of them, because I grew up with their faces splashed across all my local papers. 

[alexvillage]

I wanted to watch this show so much, but I postponed it because I knew it was going to be hard, consider all the news these days, I am always in a state of overwhelm. I finally did, still have one episode to go, and I agree with everyone here who wants that racist ass to go to hell, and I don't even believe in hell. Good that she is feeling victimized.I hope the feeling never goes away because it is out of her control what we say about her, which is based on truth. It is a very small comfort and it cannot be compared to what those kids went through, but in her privilege and arrogance, it must hurt.

I just hope that all those involved, police, prosecutors and judge (the same judge who was in charge of the real rapist/murderer and didn't ever even see the connection in M.O?) suffer a lot when they die. Everyone dies and that's all I want for them. A lot of suffering, and a perfect memory to let them know why they suffer.

I haven't read all the comments here so forgive me if it has been posted. Ava DuVernay gave an interview to Democracy Now! a few days ago about the show. It is really good. https://www.democracynow.org/2019/6/7/ava_duvernay_when_they_see_us

The reality of being black and brown in this country is always obvious when law enforcement is involved. Every single agency, organization and public service that involves "law enforcement" was created based on racism, because of racists, for the racists. Every single one. 

Edited June 19, 2019 by alexvillage
to include link of the interview.

[alexvillage]

On 6/6/2019 at 4:47 AM, Drumpf1737 said:

The Village Voice was the only paper that was skeptical about the boys guilt. They did wonderful investigative reporting on the case back then. Yusef's sister routinely attended Linda Fairstein's book signings around the city--that woman deserves a medal for the way she advocated for her brother. 

Didn't know that about Yussef's sister. Good for her! 

I believe it was the Times who coined the "wolf pack" thing. Not surprised, since the NY Times is believed to be this "liberal, fair and accurate" paper but has ALWAYS played the game of the oppressor. From Hitler to trump, they always side with the authorities. 

On 6/11/2019 at 8:26 AM, Picture It. Sicily said:

It's unconscionable of the wall street journal to give Fairstein a platform for her self-serving BS.

It is the WSJ. I expect nothing less from them. Racists run that paper.

Edited June 19, 2019 by alexvillage

[Spartan Girl]

Hope this isn't too political to post, but Fairstein isn't the only one doubling down.

I know it's no shock, but still.  I would like to elaborate further on how I feel, but I don't want this post to get deleted.

[alexvillage]

23 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

Hope this isn't too political to post, but Fairstein isn't the only one doubling down.

I know it's no shock, but still.  I would like to elaborate further on how I feel, but I don't want this post to get deleted.

I don't even need to check the link to know who it is about. Evil people will evil. Racists will racist. 

[alexvillage]

I finished the last episode in a puddle of anger and then admiration for the now men. How Korey survived is nothing more than the proverbial heroism. And to see him, to see his real face, after seeing what happened to him, I just couldn't. 

I makes me so angry that those thugs who plotted against the kids, who continued (continue still) to even deny a "mistake", since they would not ever confess to their own crime, cannot feel empathy. I have privileges that would likely protect me from things that happen to black and brown people, but I felt my chest tightening for the whole hour and a half of the last episode, for the whole series. I felt pain. I guess I can call myself human. Those racists can't, not anymore. Part of their humanity was consumed by their arrogance, entitlement and inability to see the other person - all fueled by their bigotry.

[angora]

In the first episode, I saw red every time Fairstein referred to the boys as "animals." That's the mentality that allows these things to happen, that lets cops look at terrified children and decide, evidence be damned, that they're rapists.

I didn't know going into the series that it would also cover their reentry back into society - that was a really powerful episode. Those poor men having to go on the sex offender registry and facing the prospect of their entire lives being ruined even after "paying a debt to society" that they'd never owed in the first place. One of the characters said, I think to Raymond, "They're counting on you going back in," and truer words were never spoken. It was heartbreaking to see the endless continuing way the system was rigged against them.

And oh man, that last episode with Korey damn near broke me. I was crying so hard, pretty much from start to finish. Every time he transferred to a new prison and the notation showed how much farther he was from Harlem. Every time the parole board asked him if he was ready to admit what he did.  And that breakdown after his sister was killed, screaming, "Nobody here cares about me!!" My heart.

Awful, awful, awful. Masterful work by Ava and everyone involved. All the actors were wonderful, especially Jharrel Jerome.

[ZaldamoWilder]

On 6/15/2019 at 1:38 AM, Dancingjaneway said:

Ava did an amazing job showing each story & giving people a real insight into what these boys went through & what the system is really like. I have to say that I will never hear Moon River again without thinking about these men and their story. 

What made me cry harder than anything is they'd never talked about it.  They said that Ava's series was the first time they'd known what each of the others had gone through.  

Is it weird to say that man singing in Korey's Rikers arrival scenes had a beautiful voice? 

On 6/15/2019 at 1:38 AM, Dancingjaneway said:

I watched this a few days after it was released on Netflix. I don't think anything has ever made me as mad at this did. These boys had their lives STOLEN from them by a crooked prosecutor and her marry band of KKK cops. They didn't give a shit about catching who really did it they just wanted to put these boys away because they saw them as scum. If they had actually done their jobs they could have saved a woman from being brutally murdered in the same house as her child. The scene with 9/11 shook me to my core because it was  such an amazing way to show the passage of time between the crime and when the were exonerated. Linda & the rest of her crew deserve to spend the rest of their pathetic lives in jail. I'm glad to see that she is getting her ass handed to her. Another aspect is the fact that this jury didn't even do their jobs. The DNA evidence didn't match & the victim couldn't remember her attacker. If it had been a white man they would have found him not guilty. 

You gotta refer to them as a roving band of white "animals" for us to even see them as harmful.   The reason we can conclude this for certain though is......... 

On 6/16/2019 at 9:57 AM, merylinkid said:

Still reading through this thread and working through the series.   Its a tough watch.   but this caught my eye.   I remember the Central Park Jogger Case and the Preppie Murder.   For those who don't remember the Preppie Murder, rich white guy strangles nice white guy in park.   This guy is a fucking sociopath.   Not kidding.    he agrees to plead to manslaughter.   Someone is DEAD.   He gets 15 years.   

Central Park jogger case, no one dead (but I will agree the victim was  severely injured and suffers to this day).   Korey gets 15 years for assault, sexual abuse and rape.    Think about that for a  minute.   The 16 year old black kid gets the same time for lesser chargers than the rich white guy.    Korey did not get nearly enough in settlement.   I wish him all the best for the rest of his life.

Particularly heartbreaking because I'm not being philosophical when I say there was an opportunity to be more than fair to the Exonerated Five.   His name is Robert Chambers, this happened in 1986.  A detective named Mike Sheehan investigated both of these cases.  I was interested in this one particularly because victim and perpetrator were exactly my age (18).  Before Jennifer Levin was strangled to death, she was also raped.   But the prosecutor's office didn't charge Chambers because he'd claimed they were having "rough (but consensual) sex" - which explained why his hands were around her throat.  They believed him.  This well built, 6'2" lacrosse player said he killed his 5'5" date "in self defense."   But nonetheless, he killed her (and left her on a park bench and went home).   Now if all men shall be treated equally under the law was really a thing, this 51 year old would die in prison.  Access, (his self-admitted) privilege and resources are fingers on the scales of justice.   He's currently serving a 20 year stint for distribution.  So this dude got a deal (murder to manslaughter) got out, fucked up again and is doing more time for selling coke than for murdering a whole person.   

Fun fact, 45 was well known in '86 too.  Oddly, he did not call for this kid's (adult's) execution. 

On 6/19/2019 at 12:21 PM, Spartan Girl said:

Hope this isn't too political to post, but Fairstein isn't the only one doubling down.

I know it's no shock, but still.  I would like to elaborate further on how I feel, but I don't want this post to get deleted.

It's even more awesome on video.   0:33 - 0:47 mark.  If you can, stay tuned for the pop up tweets of live viewers.   

https://abcnews.go.com/theview/video/trump-apologize-central-park-63814705

Where do we even begin?

[alexvillage]

This series still haunts me, Just thinking about what happened to the kids - children - makes me cry all over again. Then I decided to watch the documentary about the case and I am so angry and feeling vindictive. I am struggling with myself because part of me wants revenge, while the real victims are just out there, living their lives and, by all accounts, doing a lot of good.

But let me vent about my vindictive side: I want all law enforcement to be locked up at Rikers and experience the same treatment countless poor, mostly black and brown, mostly men in this country experience. I ant them to feel every pain they have inflicted. I want them to fear for their lives and for their families. I want them to never have a moments of peace or a few minutes of a sleep without a night mare.

And I want this for every single person who works in a law enforcement that protects those thugs, everyone who works for ICE and CBP, every prosecutor who simply ignores the mostly corrupt police. Maybe it is unfair to bundle all of them together but not more unfair than what has been happening in this country forever, without real punishment for the real criminals. Good people don't work for ICE and CBP. Good people don't work for those police departments of DA's offices. 

Now, I am hanging on to a sliver of hope that some new prosecutors are willing to hold PD's responsible, and that we can simply abolish what needs to be abolish (the terrorist organization in control of our immigration system) to REALLY start to move this crap in a different direction. It is the least I can do in solidarity with all who don't have the same privileges I do - even tough I am part of some groups that are not so privileged as the WASP's and the likes.

I am tired and depressed so I will hold on to this for now. 

[alexvillage]

Just one more thing:

It was the real rapist and murderer who actually caused the truth to come out 

think about it - a convicted criminal, someone who raped and murdered several women had more of a conscience than the thugs at the NYPD and DA’s office, plus all the mothefuckers who jeered the children.

when I say the police are part of a criminal organization it is because there is evidence of it

[shapeshifter]

On 6/3/2019 at 11:34 AM, AnnMarie17 said:

And, IMO, 41 million is sinful.  While I confess that I can't give you a number that would ever satisfy me, we could start by selling Trump Tower and giving those five men all the proceeds...then we'll talk about continuing proceeds from whatever books Fairstein ever publishes.

I agree that $41 mil is not enough, but it's heaps better than what has been awarded in Chicago to the countless young men of color who were tortured over decades into giving false confessions (read all about it).

On 6/3/2019 at 10:36 PM, meatball77 said:

Not only that, but other women were raped and murdered because they didn't bother to find the real rapist (now perhaps they wouldn't have found him before he went on to rape again, but perhaps with some real investigative work they would have).  He was a serial rapist that hurt many women that summer.  They were so concerned with solving the crime quickly that they didn't bother to even look at what actually happened.

And, yes, multiply this^ times a million wrongful convictions going back to lynchings and the invention of the scapegoat (hint: it's a biblical term).

I wasn't going to watch this series because of the grim quotient, but one of my daughters gave me Netflix for Mothers Day, and there wasn't anything else on Netflix that seemed worthwhile that I hadn't already seen through other means.

So I'm most of the way through the first episode, including when Ethan Herisse as Yusef Salaam looks imploringly at Jharrel Jerome (who really embodies the real Korey Wise) and Korey mutters that he guesses he better accompany the younger Yusef to the police station "or else your moms will kill me," thereby entering the path to martyrdom as surely as Jesus' legendary ride into Jerusalem, both of which did ultimately result in a measure of salvation:

Quote

Korey Wise was with his friend Yusef Salaam when police picked up Salaam to take him in for questioning. Wise, 16, wasn’t a suspect, but he agreed to go with his friend for moral support. He ended up being charged as well, and served more than 13 years, the longest of the five boys. His chance encounter in prison with Matias Reyes, who was serving a life sentence for multiple rapes and a murder, led Reyes to admit to the Central Park rape, and, after DNA confirmation, the men’s exoneration. (nytimes.com/2019/05/30/arts/television/when-they-see-us.html)

--but, just think, this salvation would not have happened had a certain someone who shall not be named succeeded in influencing the majority with his entire-page ad in the NY Times calling for the death of these innocents.

Note to myself and others: If I make it through the series, I will come back here and reread @ZaldamoWilder's posts and click the links therein. 
  
  

[sereion]

This made me smile:

https://mobile.twitter.com/ava/status/1141614794367066112

If I ever run into him in NYC, I'm giving him a big hug.

Edited June 27, 2019 by sereion

[shelley1234]

On 6/2/2019 at 3:32 PM, texassunflower said:

The last episode was difficult to watch. Korey was placed in an adult prison at 16 years old. Who decided that he should be tried as an adult? His trial was combined with Kevin's and Kevin was sent to juvenile detention along with Raymond, Antron, and Yusef. He also did double their time. He kept asking to be transferred and each time was sent farther from his mom. Being placed in solitary all those years probably saved his life but what a miserable existence. All but Korey have left New York, married and have children. I wonder if Korey still has family in New York? He obviously has a learning disability and may just feel more comfortable in familiar surroundings. This mini series was extremely well done, will probably be nominated and win numerous awards, but was really difficult to watch. I only stayed with it because I knew the outcome.

You are legally an adult in the criminal justice system in NY at 16.  For 8 years, I worked as a social worker in a community corrections program until my conscience just couldn't do it anymore.   If you are 15 or below, you are a juvenile and sent to juvenile detention, etc.  If you are 16 or over, you are booked as an adult and sent to jail.  The amount of children I went into the jail and evaluated breaks me.   

I remember this case when I was a kid.  I remember thinking how could 5 kids all admit to something if they didn't do at least some of it.   I was so ignorant and I didn't even know it.   The criminal justice system relies on people like me and my ignorance.   

I've only been able to watch one episode so far.  I know that the system stole these children of theor rights and their childhood.  And it's still happening today in police departments and court rooms across the country.  

[Paloma]

Echoing everyone's reactions of rage and grief, and as a white woman I also feel guilt and shame because in 1989 I accepted the common narrative despite my being educated and considering myself a liberal who cared about racial justice. I focused on the horror that the victim suffered, partly because of the general fear of sexual assault that I and most women carry with them and partly because I could identify more with her than with teenage black boys from Harlem. I lived in NJ when I was a kid and remember hearing my parents, who were from NYC, refer to Harlem as a dangerous place--the reason was not always stated, but it was understood.

Thankfully my eyes have been opened in the last few years to my white privilege, and I speak out against the system and specific cases of racial injustice whenever possible. My awareness and small actions are not enough to make a difference, but I hope this series and the documentary open the eyes of many more people. Sadly, it will never open the eyes of those who are complicit in the system and those who benefit from it. But I have to hope that the next generation will change things. 

[Neurochick]

On 7/5/2019 at 10:58 AM, Paloma said:

I lived in NJ when I was a kid and remember hearing my parents, who were from NYC, refer to Harlem as a dangerous place--the reason was not always stated, but it was understood.

IMO you should NOT feel guilty.  You lived in NJ, you had no idea, as a child you believe what the adults in your life tell you.  When people get older, they can either keep believing what they were told as children, or learn for themselves.  People like Linda Fairstein KNEW better; that's the difference.  

[Kel Varnsen]

That was pretty damn amazing in how powerful it was. So hard to watch but I couldn't  look away. If the actor who played Korey doesn't win an emmy I will be shocked. That last episode was all him( and in many scenes just him) and he completely crushed it. That scene where he finds out his sister was killed was outstanding.

The 3rd ep was pretty great too and really showed how backwards and fucked up the requirements of the parole system are. Like how they expect ex cons to have a job, but you have a 7pm curfew, so basically you have to find a 9-5 job but you likely don't have the qualifications for one. And you have to be in the house after 7 as if all the criminals don't come out until then and as if you can't do crime from inside your house. A d to top it ofd you can't associate with other felons but at the same time you have to go to the ex-con version of AA. It makes no sense.

On 6/2/2019 at 4:23 PM, Neurochick said:

What's awful about this is, no one would have given a rat's ass about this case had the victim not been an investment banker.  I remember when this story broke and it was like the fourth story from the top that day.  The next day, when they found out who she was, the story was big news.  Had it been me, no one would have given a fuck.

They even said how there were I think over 1000 sexual assaults in New York that year. Which made it not hard to wonder why that one case was getting so much attention.

On 6/15/2019 at 1:38 AM, Dancingjaneway said:

The scene with 9/11 shook me to my core because it was  such an amazing way to show the passage of time between the crime and when the were exonerated. 

I also thought it was interesting  that by that point Korey wasn't in isolation, kind of showing how with the passage of time his case became less and less famous (especially after 9/11) and he just became another prisoner not someone that people could make a name for by beating up.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

When They See Us won an Emmy!

Outstanding Casting for a Limited Series, Movie or Special

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Another Emmy award!

Outstanding Lead Actor in a Limited Series or Movie - Jharrel Jerome

[raezen]

On 9/23/2019 at 1:40 AM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Another Emmy award!

Outstanding Lead Actor in a Limited Series or Movie - Jharrel Jerome

He absolutely deserved it.

[Emmeline]

I just finished the show on Netflix.  If they had DNA evidence that didn’t match any of the five boys, were they always looking for the sixth person?  The coxing done by the police and the conviction is just beyond belief.

Netflix has a show Oprah did with the cast of the show as well as the actual 5. As another poster wrote, Korey seems to have some serious issues.  I read that he had hearing loss and learning disability in his youth.  It’s seems to me he must have deteriorated further during his time in prison.  

Antron said that he knows he needs therapy but has refused to go.  While he was speaking about his life being ruined most of the young actors were in tears.  It was really sad.  Anyway, catch that show if you can.  Amazon has a good documentary on as well.

Edited November 17, 2019 by Emmeline

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Critics' Choice Award nominations!

Best Limited Series

Best Actor in a Limited Series of Movie Made for Television – Jharrel Jerome

Best Supporting Actor in a Limited Series or Movie Made for Television – Asante Blackk

Best Supporting Actor in a Limited Series or Movie Made for Television – John Leguizamo

Best Supporting Actress in a Limited Series or Movie Made for Television – Marsha Stephanie Blake

Best Supporting Actress in a Limited Series or Movie Made for Television – Niecy Nash

 

Screen Actors Guild Award nomination:

Outstanding Performance by a Male Actor in a Television Movie or Miniseries - Jharrel Jerome

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Obligatory OMAR COMIN'!

Like someone else mentioned in this thread, I put off watching this because I knew it would be upsetting. I finally watched the first episode a few nights ago. It took me three hours to watch the whole episode because I had to keep stopping it and getting up because it was so fucking rage inducing.

I work in science and every year we have to do a mandatory course on human subjects and what we as researchers can and cannot do. The course always begins with some history and examples of horrible things that happened in the past (medical experiments during WW2, the Tuskegee experiments, etc) and it's clear that the reason we have all of these rules and regulations for human subjects now is to prevent things like that from happening again. What's appalling about what happened to the Exonerated Five is that there were already existing laws that should have kept these children from being interrogated without a parent or lawyer present (let alone being beaten and coerced into false confessions). What happened to them was a travesty of justice.

The fact that the other people involved refuse to accept any responsibility for this colossal fuckup and deliberate scapegoating of these kids just so they could blame someone, anyone, is reprehensible.

Because I have watched other crime shows/movies, I was afraid that Roberts would die gruesomely and that it would be devastating for Korey.

On 6/14/2019 at 10:38 PM, Dancingjaneway said:

The DNA evidence didn't match & the victim couldn't remember her attacker. If it had been a white man they would have found him not guilty. 

While I was watching this, I was thinking about the contrast between this case and the Brock Turner case. In the case of the Exonerated Five, the white victim had no memory of the attack, there were no witnesses, and there was no physical evidence that placed any of the accused at the scene of the crime (fingerprints, DNA) but five black and brown boys were convicted and given the maximum sentences. In the Brock Turner case, the non-white victim had no memory of the attack but there were two witnesses who saw what was happening, stopped the rape, chased down the perp when he ran, and held him until the police arrived. Despite having two eye witnesses, this white rapist was given a slap on the wrist (sentenced to six months in jail and released after three months) and then had the nerve to try to request that the conviction be overturned.

PSA - for the sake of your mental health, do not read Know My Name by Chanel Miller the same week that you watch When They See Us. It may make you want to start breaking things.

[alexvillage]

22 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

While I was watching this, I was thinking about the contrast between this case and the Brock Turner case. In the case of the Exonerated Five, the white victim had no memory of the attack, there were no witnesses, and there was no physical evidence that placed any of the accused at the scene of the crime (fingerprints, DNA) but five black and brown boys were convicted and given the maximum sentences. In the Brock Turner case, the non-white victim had no memory of the attack but there were two witnesses who saw what was happening, stopped the rape, chased down the perp when he ran, and held him until the police arrived. Despite having two eye witnesses, this white rapist was given a slap on the wrist (sentenced to six months in jail and released after three months) and then had the nerve to try to request that the conviction be overturned.

Well said.

Don't forget the pity party, including by the judge, who I believe was eventually recalled (barely a comfort, but at least something) about how "the life of that young man, an athlete, would be destroyed by the conviction", and how he is "such a good boy". 

And the bias for appeal was that rape by  "fingering" is not rape becasue it is not penetration, or some bullshit like that.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Critics' Choice Awards!

Best Limited Series

Best Actor in a Limited Series or Movie Made for Television – Jharrel Jerome

[bijoux]

I finally got up the courage to watch this and my God, what an emotionally draining experience it is. These poor babies, it's horrific watching what they went through during their detainment, trial, sentence and even after getting released. Korey was definitely the one affected most, but the boys who got out sooner weren't free until Reyes came forward either. We had musically gifted Kevin cleaning bed pans, Antron stuck in a house with the father he couldn't forgive and, Jesus, that girlfriend of his was horrid. But then there's Raymond, pushed out and vilified in his own home. Was his grandma dead by the time he got out? It was horrible seeing him treated that way and she didn't seem like the type to just watch that. 

One other thing done nicely was giving dimensions to the families in the limited time they were shown. You start off cursing Youssef's mom (at least I did) for being all above it for getting him out of the room before signing the confession, which good for you, honestly, but don't pile on the others, and then refusing to pass letters to Korey. I'm still not letting her off the hook on that one, but showing how much she was struggling gave her dimension. And the same was true about Korey's mom, only somewhat in reverse with witnessing how she was with her other kid and finding out she was dealing out of her home. The fact that she finally called her daughter Marci after her murder was devastating. And as Raymond's case demonstrated, even dealing isn't cut and dry. So it's really layers upon layers. 

And then the story of Reyes' other victims. Thanks to the poster who linked that article. It's horrifying to realize a murderer and serial rapist has more conscience than the people charged with keeping law and order. While Fairstein is definitely the mastermind behind this case, the racist, narrowminded and downright lazy cops who did her bidding have no excuse either. 

I guess I'm watching that interview with Oprah later today. 

[alexvillage]

Linda Feinstein is seeing Netflix and Ava because for painting her as a racist. 

Netflix promises to fight. Let's see how this goes. At least she is feeling the consequences of her actions. Besides, she defended her bullshit until she start losing credibility with people who pay her to be a jerk. I hope there is a lot of publicity against her.

https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2020/mar/18/netflix-when-they-see-us-lawsuit-criticism-central-park-five

[Kel Varnsen]

22 hours ago, alexvillage said:

Linda Feinstein is seeing Netflix and Ava because for painting her as a racist. 

Netflix promises to fight. Let's see how this goes. At least she is feeling the consequences of her actions. Besides, she defended her bullshit until she start losing credibility with people who pay her to be a jerk. I hope there is a lot of publicity against her.

https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2020/mar/18/netflix-when-they-see-us-lawsuit-criticism-central-park-five

I am no lawyer but usually if you sue someone in civil court don't you usually have to do a deposition, and isn't that basically sworn testimony? So that's fine let her sue, but when she has to do her deposition the Netflix lawyers can ask her all kinds of questions about how she is racist.

[Badger]

23 hours ago, Kel Varnsen said:

I am no lawyer but usually if you sue someone in civil court don't you usually have to do a deposition, and isn't that basically sworn testimony? So that's fine let her sue, but when she has to do her deposition the Netflix lawyers can ask her all kinds of questions about how she is racist.

Here's a blog from simple justice which is almost always very sympathetic to the idea of young black men being the victims of police brutality.

He's siding with Linda Fairstein on this one.  

 

[Ksb1122]

Hi guys

In one episod when Raymond Sr. is at the police station the camera zoom in Raymond Sr. ring. I remember it is a "R" written on a onyx ring. Do you guys mind post me that sequence? Because no matter how much I rewind I can't find that scene

[FoundTime]

I put off watching the last episode of this because, well, it was kinda long; and in a weird way I didn't want it to be over, it was so incredibly well done. In between my watching episode 3 and 4, George Floyd was killed, and more to the point, I  watched DuVernay's 13th (also on Netflix). Give that a try 😔 Of course they called those kids animals (for starters). See: 400 years of American history.

Must make a note so that my mystery discussion group never reads anything by Linda Fairstein.

[Neurochick]

6 hours ago, FoundTime said:

Must make a note so that my mystery discussion group never reads anything by Linda Fairstein.

What pisses me off about Fairstein is that even now her HUGE ego will not let her admit she was wrong.

[SoMuchTV]

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/feb/07/yusef-salaam-central-park-five-city-council

One of the Central Park Five is running for NY city council.  I just heard about it when I saw a story in my local paper but apparently this is from a few months ago.