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All Episodes Talk: Better Things


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This one was soooo sexual.  This show is so good without adding that and sorry but Sam just isn't a Femme Fatale type of person.  She's a little rough and not sexual at all. 

I was disappointed.

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Sam has always spoiled her kids and let them be entitled brats, though. Max was manipulating her mother and her mother just gave in. That's pretty much always how it goes, which is why Max is such a raving out of control mess.

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I'm not sure how I'm supposed to feel about this show and the characters.  Sam's two oldest daughters are awful.  Surly, spoiled and entitled.  I know all teenagers are to some degree, but they strike me as heading toward very messed up adult lives.  It's not funny or cute, and it makes the show very hard for me to watch.

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What I like about this show is that everyone is flawed and doing their best to get through. Of course Max is acting irrationally- it happens! I’m a college prof and so many kids freak out their freshman year and want to run home. Sam made it clear that she expects Max to return, but that she also loves her kids and is genuinely happy to be with them. There’s a certain codependency here, but it’s rooted in genuine affection.  We can’t judge Sam yet since we haven’t seen what happens next for Max. Yelling at her and forcing back on a plane at that moment will not achieve anything  

These episodes are snippets, vignettes, a peak through the window. We will never get the full and balanced story because that’s not the story this show is telling. 

And even non-sexy women are sexual, have sex dreams, and enjoy sex, after all.

Edited by MJS
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But these vignettes repeatedly show these awful kids.

Still she has a good life because she's a working actor, provides for her daughters and puts up with mom.

What exactly are the Better Things?  That she will treasure these moments with her family later in her life, along with the few dalliances here and there and some get togethers at her big home?

To me it seems like Louis made his own show a template for this, or kind of a mirror image, this time a single mother with older kids than in Louie.

You have heartwarming episodes like Louie going to Afghanistan, sneaking little ducks on his trip or various moments with his daughters.

I guess viewers are suppose to feel good, a kind of emotional ambience from a TV show, but there isn't a lot of meaning to attach to it, kind of like listening to Enya or something.

Better Things though seems to depict aggravation a lot more frequently than Louie did, not to mention inducing eye rolls from viewers when they think those daughters can't be more horrible.

Edited by scrb
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I don’t find the kids uniformly awful. There are plenty of times they’re kind, generous, and loving. But they’re also flawed, and seeing the family working through these issues is compelling to me. 

Funny, I find this show anything but superficial or empty. It resonantes with me on a very deep level. 

Edited by MJS
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1 hour ago, MJS said:

Sam made it clear that she expects Max to return,

She did? I honestly saw her *not* making that clear at all.

First, Max has got grandma on her side, slyly grinning because she was apparently in on the whole thing. Max spends the whole conversation being dismissive and gently pouty. She says Sam knows she wasn't being challenged, asks why Mom's "acting like this," that she tried it and has no need to waste her life on college. Then wraps up the conversation having moved on from the topic of whether she's going back to college (no) and is now onto Mom being unreasonable for not welcoming her home so she'll go live with her friend in a van and get raped and become a meth head.

The only time she shows anything like doubt about getting her way is when Sam says at least the van isn't living at home, but then Sam relents and starts offering her food before she starts her "adult meth life" and Max is hugging her as if she's just gotten her way. Sam's gently saying she's in "a lot of trouble" as she makes her food.

The protestations she does make about Max going back are completely weak, as if Sam herself can't come up with a good reason why she should be at college. (We all know Max doesn't care about whatever money got spent or giving it more of a try than she has.) Never once did she flat-out say Max is going back. She says "Maybe by Sunday you can *whistling noise and thumb to indicate going back*. And that's what Max describes as "acting like this" as if even that is too harsh.

Oh, and Frankie's saying she won't give back her lava lamp, iow, she's already planning for a life with Max back in the house.

Also this happens early on in the ep and then never comes up again as an ongoing problem. Doesn't mean they can't get back into it next week, of course, but in this ep it seemed settled.

1 hour ago, MJS said:

Yelling at her and forcing back on a plane at that moment will not achieve anything  

It's certainly possibly that in the coming episodes Sam will gently coax Max back into going, or Max will change her mind herself or whatever. But I'm not so sure that yelling at her and forcing her back on a plane at this moment wouldn't achieve anything. It would make it clear that what she did wasn't acceptable. Every single person in the scene acts as if this is some cute, predictable, scampish thing that Max did. I think it might actually be a good idea to react like she'd done something actually bad instead of going along with the fiction that she was making a mature decision in a cute way. A little shame might be good motivation.

I thought that was part of the reason why Sam's line about the van-- "Good, that's not living at home!"-- got an actual reaction from both of them. Maybe it was supposed to be that it was "mean" for Sam to suggest she didn't want Max living with her, but to me it read more like Sam actually stating the truth about Max's failure. Which was why she immediately backed off.

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19 hours ago, MJS said:

What I like about this show is that everyone is flawed and doing their best to get through. Of course Max is acting irrationally- it happens! I’m a college prof and so many kids freak out their freshman year and want to run home. Sam made it clear that she expects Max to return, but that she also loves her kids and is genuinely happy to be with them. There’s a certain codependency here, but it’s rooted in genuine affection.  We can’t judge Sam yet since we haven’t seen what happens next for Max. Yelling at her and forcing back on a plane at that moment will not achieve anything  

These episodes are snippets, vignettes, a peak through the window. We will never get the full and balanced story because that’s not the story this show is telling. 

And even non-sexy women are sexual, have sex dreams, and enjoy sex, after all.

I agree non sexy women are sexual.  Just not usually on tv!  They hire the pretty young sexy ones for those roles!

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5 hours ago, Jeanne222 said:

I agree non sexy women are sexual.  Just not usually on tv!  They hire the pretty young sexy ones for those roles!

Not so much these days, especially on shows where they want to explore sex in a basically non-glamorous way. Sam's sex life has always been part of the show.

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6 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

Not so much these days, especially on shows where they want to explore sex in a basically non-glamorous way. Sam's sex life has always been part of the show.

I don't believe I've ever had the pleasure of watching her masturbate before!

As I said earlier I thought this one was a bit much in the sex department!

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6 hours ago, Jeanne222 said:

I don't believe I've ever had the pleasure of watching her masturbate before!

As I said earlier I thought this one was a bit much in the sex department!

Her sex life on this show is downright tame compared to when she was on Californication!

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On 3/25/2019 at 9:11 PM, Jeanne222 said:

Wow!  I never heard of her before this show!

She's been working pretty steadily most of her life. The first role I remember seeing her in was Dolores in Grease 2. She was the Pink Ladies little sister who hung out with Michael. Another 80s role was Rebecca in Say Anything. She was one of Lloyd's friends. She's also done a lot of voiceover work. She was the voice of Bobby on King of the Hill. Californication was one of her more high profile roles. She was a series regular all seven seasons.

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9 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

She's been working pretty steadily most of her life. The first role I remember seeing her in was Dolores in Grease 2. She was the Pink Ladies little sister who hung out with Michael. Another 80s role was Rebecca in Say Anything. She was one of Lloyd's friends. She's also done a lot of voiceover work. She was the voice of Bobby on King of the Hill. Californication was one of her more high profile roles. She was a series regular all seven seasons.

Thank you!  She has been around for a while!

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1 minute ago, Jeanne222 said:

Thank you!  She has been around for a while!

I can only imagine how difficult it is for women to get cast after the age of 30 so I love that she’s still got a steady career. She was over 40 when she was cast on Californiation which is almost unheard of since her character was consistently very sexual.

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6 minutes ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I can only imagine how difficult it is for women to get cast after the age of 30 so I love that she’s still got a steady career. She was over 40 when she was cast on Californiation which is almost unheard of since her character was consistently very sexual.

I started watching and was impressed she both starred in and was a cowriter of the series!  Go Pamela.

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So many things about women's health are treated as taboo or we only see them on tv/in movies when it's treated as  joke (look, the middle aged lady is going through menopause so hahaha, she's sweating like crazy and turning up the air conditioning and making up ridiculous stories to everyone to justify why the AC is cranked up so she doesn't have to admit to her family and friends that she's hot and sweaty from the menopause!).

Frankie was being a jerk at the go cart place. Sam is allowed to ask the attendant to speak up so that she can hear the safety instructions. I know I've encountered similar situations where we're in an already noisy environment and someone is mumbling/not enunciating/not projecting. If this is information that I actually need, then you need to make sure I can hear it! And I say this as someone who has really good hearing (I'm the one who's always saying, "Do you hear that?" because I hear the slightest even when the tv is one full blast and the dryer is clunking).

Frankie can also suck it for demanding the front seat forever just because she's older than Duke. Since there are only two of them fighting over who gets to ride shotgun, the easy solution is one of them gets to sit there on the way to places and the other one gets to sit there on the way back. PROBLEM SOLVED.

Edited by ElectricBoogaloo
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I didn't mind the menopause talk, but I seriously doubt any male doctor would touch a female patient who just brought up him fingering her. No woman, of any age, that I know would speak to a doctor like that. And the smelly cooch stuff was just gross. Sometimes I think this show (like Louie ...and Californication now that I think of it!) goes a step too far for "shock" value.

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Yeah Sam mentions Frankie's cruelty as she hits puberty, like that's an excuse.

But really, the fact that the two older ones are so entitled is a reflection of the parenting.  It can't be a coincidence.  And the youngest one will probably be like that as well.

I don't buy the "old school" parenting thing that people talk about, which would be on the opposite extreme from Sam's permissive ways.  She must have wanted to be friends with the older girls so one of them calls her Sam rather than mom.

I don't know if letting the young one swear up a storm was meant as an example of parenting or they thought it would be funny to have the little girl say insane things.  Are child actors allowed to talk like that?  Apparently they are.

Yes, Sam is hitting menopause so add another cross to bear on top of the two mortgages, horrible mother, horrible kids, horrible coworkers, etc.  I'm sure critics will lap it up, how brave Adlon is to show older women going through menopause and throwing it on TV.

She tells the doctor all these things (and what is it with both doctors being ethnic minorities, is it diversity badge of honor day?) that she has to deal with.  So what are the Better Things?

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2 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Frankie can also suck it for demanding the front seat forever just because she's older than Sam. Since there are only two of them fighting over who gets to ride shotgun, the easy solution is one of them gets to sit there on the way to places and the other one gets to sit there on the way back. PROBLEM SOLVED.

That's a good solution. If I were Sam in that moment, I would have told them both to sit in the back.

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2 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Frankie was being a jerk at the go cart place.

I thought she was even worse yelling at her mother while she's puking. Leaving aside that I don't understand talking to *anyone* while they're throwing up, that's a level up of cruelty. Her behavior at the go-cart place, obnoxious as it was, seemed more familiar to me.

6 minutes ago, scrb said:

 She must have wanted to be friends with the older girls so one of them calls her Sam rather than mom.

I think Frankie's just begun calling her Sam now as part of her general disrespect, not the relationship Sam established. Frankie's intentionally being a jerk when not wheedling Sam into reading plays to her for homework etc. 

As expected, Max easily dropped out of college without getting in any trouble. Her adult life is exactly the same as her child life, except now she no longer has any responsibilities (like school) or rules to follow (Sam just asks her if she's coming home or staying out all night).

I wonder if her carrying around a camera and snapping pictures of her friends is supposed to represent her being artistic (as opposed to studying photography as an artform at un-challenging college). I won't be surprised if this miraculously leads to her getting some impressive job in the near future. That's how things often work on TV, but I hope the show goes another way.

I wasn't sure if we knew the people she was with at the go-cart place. I think because again when I imagine dropping out of college and going home I imagine nobody being there to hang out with because all my friends were away at college. 

16 minutes ago, scrb said:

I don't know if letting the young one swear up a storm was meant as an example of parenting or they thought it would be funny to have the little girl say insane things.  Are child actors allowed to talk like that?  Apparently they are.

I can't see any reason a child actor wouldn't be allowed to swear. Presumably it was made clear when she got the job that this is an R-rated show.

I think it was supposed to be funny, but the more important point was just how it diffused the situation because the girls don't really hate each other and Duke used her permission to vent her anger to spout off like Linda Blair in The Exorcist.

As for the doctors, I didn't think there was anything odd about neither of them being white (it's not like they were both the same ethnicity and Sam's girlfriends were pretty diverse as well) but I was surprised Sam had a male gynecologist. Much less one who seemed somewhat new. 

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Even if Sam never gave permission or encouraged her to call her Sam, she let it go.

The girl had reason to believe she could talk to her mother that way, be openly derisive.

She could have punished her, like deny her allowance for a few weeks.  How about sternly telling her not to call her by her name or talk to her that way?

Probably never set consequences so they know they can walk all over her.

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22 minutes ago, scrb said:

Even if Sam never gave permission or encouraged her to call her Sam, she let it go.

Oh, I agree. She didn't acknowledge it or anything. I just didn't think it had to do with her doing that thing where she wants the kids to call her Sam. I don't think she particularly minds it either, though. She's never been the kind of mother who seemed to have established rules about respect to her as a mother. 

17 minutes ago, cpcathy said:

What was with the second doctor dropping so many F bombs? Are they supposed to be friendlier than just doctor and patient? Have we seen him before?

I think it was just supposed to be a quirk of this particular doctor and since Sam wouldn't be bothered by it he'd talk freely with her. They might be a doctor and patient who had been together for a long time so they had a looser way of speaking to each other. 

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Most of Sam's friends at the restaurant were kind of obnoxious---I'd have hated to have been their server--but I did love seeing Judy Reyes, and, tho it took me a minute to recognize her, Cree Summer.

The stanky fish oil friend was the worst all the way around, drunk or sober.

I was a little surprised that Sam has a male gyno too, and even more that he continued the exam once she'd mentioned the whole 'fingering' thing.

Sam is such a tough cookie, but not with her kids. She's very indulgent with them, and lets them get away with almost literal murder. I'm not a parent, so I have no basis for judgement there; parenting seems like the hardest (and, to me, often, worst) job in the world. And I hate to sound like one of those 'get off my lawn' types, but I can't imagine speaking to my folks, at that age  (or even now) the way her daughters talk to her. And yeah...what is Max going to do now? No school, no consequences, no job or life plan? I know a lot of this is autobiographical for Adlon's real life; I just wonder how much. I know her real life daughters are all actually actresses ...will they go that way on the show?

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I would have been a total duck out of water at the girl's night out, too. I would have been horrified at my friends getting overtly sexy with the staff. And that we were super loud and annoying other diners. And that everyone was drunk and/or drugged up. It's like each woman had to be more hip and riotous than the last. 

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6 hours ago, luna1122 said:

I was a little surprised that Sam has a male gyno too, and even more that he continued the exam once she'd mentioned the whole 'fingering' thing.

I was surprised he just didn't politely end the exam right there and ask her to leave.  I mean, even Sam has to recognize just how out of line she was being by making that kind of comment to him. 

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19 hours ago, scrb said:

what is it with both doctors being ethnic minorities, is it diversity badge of honor day?

Why is it a badge of honor to show two people who aren't white? And why is it somehow unrealistic to have two doctors who aren't white? When my mom was pregnant with my sister in 1983, her ob/gyn was Asian (and she did not live in an Asian neighborhood - the neighborhood on one side was predominantly white and the neighborhood on the other side was predominantly black). When my sister was born, her pediatrician was a woman. There have been lots of doctors in real life who were not white males for years!

This is exactly why diversity and representation matter. Showing TWO doctors who are not white on a tv show should not be considered worthy of a badge of honor.

Edited by ElectricBoogaloo
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 I love these forums!! My reaction is mixed on the show and on this episode. Overall I agree that the daughters (at least Max and Frankie) are bratty and entitled. Buuuuuut.....I too am a single Mom of three ( a son and twin daughters) so a lot of what we see on this show hits very very close to home. I am not wealthy like Sam, and my ex-husband is a much more present father than Sam's, but, like Sam I still do most of the "heavy lifting" of parenting with my kids. My kids are not nearly as disrespectful as Sam's, but we are a cussing household--my rule is that they're allowed to cuss, but not AT me. At times they have expressed that they feel like I'm "a best friend who's just older than me" rather than a Mom, and while that's flattering in a way, it is NOT what I set out to do as a Mom. I never intended to be permissive, "I'm their FRIEND!" Mom, yet I do sometimes feel like the respect for me as a parent is lacking. Not sure if it's a single-parent phenomenon or what, but this show really nails how exhausting it can be to have it all on your shoulders without the "backup" of a second parent in the home dealing with the day-to-day issues that arise. Some things you just decide aren't worth a knock-down, drag-out fight. Some things you know you should be stricter about and/ or that you should remind the kids that you're the authority figure here....and you're just too damn weary at the end of the day to do it. I adore my kids and I know they adore me back....but some days, ugly things are said and ugly emotions are expressed. It's not a pretty picture sometimes. So, I love that this show exposes all of that so realistically.

   I do agree that Pam Adlon goes over the line at times (telling her doctor that "it's like you're fingering me", etc.) but I have to say, and sorry if it's TMI, but I've noticed during menopause that the vaginal discharge (and sometimes urine) smell "different" now, and not in a good way. I've totally had the "wait a minute, is that (smell) ME!?!?!?" moments so I howled with laughter at that! I know it's gross, and it's also not one of the "signs of menopause" we typically read about and expect to experience....I had to do some Googling to find out if anyone else was going through it, and was relieved to find other women saying, "Yeah, no one tells you THIS is gonna happen! I hate it! Why did no one warn us?" Ugh. (For the record, dietary changes and charcoal pills can mitigate things somewhat....and barring that, using cornstarch baby powder in the underwear helps a great deal, too.) So I kinda love Pam/Sam for "going there". It's something you will probably only laugh at/understand if you've been there! 

   Finally...am wondering if maybe Frankie is supposed to be on the spectrum or something? The scene when Sam was puking and Frankie was being so heartless reminded me of the Max (?) character on "Parenthood" (he had autism) when his mother was vomiting from her chemo and he was just dispassionately talking about how unsanitary it was for her to be lying on the floor. Yeah, Frankie is a major brat, and I doubt she is supposed to have autism per se, but maybe she's an undiagnosed Aspie? 

Edited by Liamsmom617
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3 hours ago, Liamsmom617 said:

The scene when Sam was puking and Frankie was being so heartless reminded me of the Max (?) character on "Parenthood" (he had autism) when his mother was vomiting from her chemo and he was just dispassionately talking about how unsanitary it was for her to be lying on the floor. Yeah, Frankie is a major brat, and I doubt she is supposed to have autism per se, but maybe she's an undiagnosed Aspie? 

I don't think she was being indifferent, though. She was angry about it just like she was angry about Sam asking questions at the go-cart place. A lot of her insults and reactions seem based on her having a good grasp of the nuances of social interaction.

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On 3/29/2019 at 1:02 PM, sistermagpie said:

I wonder if her carrying around a camera and snapping pictures of her friends is supposed to represent her being artistic (as opposed to studying photography as an artform at un-challenging college). I won't be surprised if this miraculously leads to her getting some impressive job in the near future. That's how things often work on TV, but I hope the show goes another way.

That's what I was thinking too. I do think it will be more realistic if it happens on this particular show since her mother is "Sam Fox" and famous. Sam probably has a lot of connections that could help Max get some kind of work without her having to go to school and work some low level retail/service job before she gets an opportunity to advance her art career.

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Wading through the crudity, which reminds me of annoying middle school "humor," there are great moments on this show. Sam mused something along the lines of how women become invisible once they reach their 50s, and it's very true. One notices it at events, social gatherings, in retail stores, and in business. Society begins to ignore or dismiss you more than when you are younger. My friend, who is so strikingly beautiful that she silences a room when she walks in, commented that now that she's in her 50s, she's getting ignored. 

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23 hours ago, DoubleUTeeEff said:

That's what I was thinking too. I do think it will be more realistic if it happens on this particular show since her mother is "Sam Fox" and famous. Sam probably has a lot of connections that could help Max get some kind of work without her having to go to school and work some low level retail/service job before she gets an opportunity to advance her art career.

That's exactly what I was picturing, that she'd just fall into something or be given something because of Sam's connections. If that happened I would just hope she wouldn't be too successful given the way she's approached everything else.

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I don't like having to tolerate the crude and yuck to find the occasional funny or interesting parts of the show. It seems that Pamela Adlon is more into "Let's see how much shock we can throw out there". I liked the first season, and the second was ok. This season has lost me.

Edited by Kenz
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I'm a little late to the party this season, but when Sam berated her director in "Monsters in the Moonlight" for not acting in the best interests of talent/staff, it felt like she could have been talking to Louis C.K.

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13 hours ago, pasdetrois said:

Sam mused something along the lines of how women become invisible once they reach their 50s

lol....I just returned from a weekend with my very pretty daughter.  One Uber driver walked right past me to take my daughter’s luggage and left me to fend for myself.  I had to laugh, and I said to my daughter, “Doesn’t he know who’s leaving the tip?”

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On 3/29/2019 at 8:47 AM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Sam is allowed to ask the attendant to speak up so that she can hear the safety instructions. I know I've encountered similar situations where we're in an already noisy environment and someone is mumbling/not enunciating/not projecting. 

This part had me 🤣🤣🤣 because I'm constantly telling my son to speak up. A lot of teenagers tend to mumble. 

On 3/29/2019 at 8:47 AM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Frankie can also suck it for demanding the front seat forever just because she's older than Duke. Since there are only two of them fighting over who gets to ride shotgun, the easy solution is one of them gets to sit there on the way to places and the other one gets to sit there on the way back. PROBLEM SOLVED.

I don't knoooow....I'm the oldest and I ALWAYS got the front seat. No arguments, it was just understood.

On 3/29/2019 at 2:15 PM, TVbitch said:

I would have been a total duck out of water at the girl's night out, too. I would have been horrified at my friends getting overtly sexy with the staff. And that we were super loud and annoying other diners. And that everyone was drunk and/or drugged up. It's like each woman had to be more hip and riotous than the last. 

So how much am I required to tip in order to have the sexy server spray whipped cream into my mouth?

  • LOL 1
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5 hours ago, DiabLOL said:

Do doctors really offer HPV shots to 50 something women? Especially when they assume they already have the strains?

I was in my early 30s (so, 10+ years ago) when the vaccine was first released. My gynecologist offered it to me, which surprised me. I can't remember now if I accepted it or not.

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(edited)

S3.E6: What Is Jeopardy?

Quote

Sam and fam get caught up in some gnar. Written by Pamela Adlon & Ira Parker; directed by Pamela Adlon.

Promo:

Clips:

Sam's therapy session:

Knocking boots:

Original air date: 4/4/19

Edited by ElectricBoogaloo
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16 minutes ago, QQQQ said:

Um, what the what?

Yeah me too.

Also I don't know what to think of the whole Duke slams into the side of Phil's car. How could have Phil prevented that? More importantly she didn't seem to check in on how Duke was doing! Not only that she had the nerve to have a list of demands for turning in her car keys.

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