Instinct - General Discussion

[AnimeMania]

2 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

And the actress who played his sister is Lizzy DeClement, but I can't readily determine if she is a real musician or was just acting the part, but it did seem she was really singing.

Not really a thing but she said she played the guitar, but at the end she was playing the keyboards.

[morriss]

This show is getting lamer each week.   Lizzie is downright rude to everyone, especially Dylan.   I am going to cross it off my tv schedule.

[Trey]

I thought Andy was a little whiny this episode.

Also I didn't really like all the time Dylan spent listening to the victim's music - it took him a long time to come up with the extremely obscure sickness the victim had and then he never even told the sister.

And Justine was a real pain in the ass.  Glad Lizzie finally told her she couldn't go out again.  But Justine was okay with that so it's all good.

Other than my nitpicks I did enjoy the episode. I like the out-of-town cop.

[auntiemel]

13 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Because the music was not cringey (IMO) I looked up and learned:

• The suicidal epileptic musician was played by Clyde Lawrence, who, with his real life sister, does perform (npr.org/2017/04/13/523759335/brother-sister-duo-lawrence-on-touring-and-the-meaning-of-home).

OK, that is hilarious, because I've only reached the 12 minute mark, where they played the first music clip, I was like, "That's 'More' by Lawerence! The HELL??? Why does that guy even look exactly like Clyde? WHAT IS GOING ON RIGHT NOW?"

Luckily, my first instinct (see what I did there?) was to come to this forum and see if anyone else had something to say about that. Sweet! 😄

Lawrence is a great band. I love them. Their Audiotree live performance is killer, and gives a good overview of their sound, if anybody wants to hear more.

[mythoughtis]

The Julian - Lizzie thing isn’t working for me.  In fact, none of these characters are working for me. Is Nebraska cop done now? 

My spouse likes this show, so I guess we will continue to dvr it, until it hopefully gets cancelled  soon. 

[shapeshifter]

On July 8, 2019 at 6:24 PM, Trey said:

I thought Andy was a little whiny this episode.

I'd say Andy was more than a little whiny. I mean, Dylan made that whole flip chart/board thingy so they could visualize their options. 

Edited July 9, 2019 by shapeshifter
Whole not hole

[auntiemel]

I have to say, I've found this episode kind of haunting in the couple of days since I've seen it. I realize that's most likely because of my previous familiarity with the Lawrence band, and the parallels between the real-life band and the plot of the episode--ie, the concept of siblings in a band, the fact that Clyde played the fictional version of himself, the use of one of their real songs, and the real-life sister Gracie's voice being used as the singing voice of the fictional sister. Anyway, it all combined to make the whole thing stick with me, and seem sort of melancholy!

One last piece of trivia: one of the things that Annie said about Elliot early on was that he preferred writing music at night. The real-life band actually has a song about that, and an interesting music video, in that it was filmed in one continuous long shot between sunset and sunrise, never breaking once. It's obviously sped up in many parts. LOL. But, at any rate, it's worth watching. 😄

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, auntiemel said:

the real-life sister Gracie's voice being used as the singing voice of the fictional sister.

Thank you. I thought that might be the case when I couldn't find any mention of the actress being a musician.

[statsgirl]

While this show isn't great art, I find it's an entertaining thing in the summer when I like my fare light. I love Dylan's outfits, like his marriage with Andy when Andy isn't too whiney, and I appreciate a show where there is no 'will they/won't they' between the lead male and female. Mostly I like Lizzie although I wish the actress hadn't cut her hair

One thing I didn't like in this episode was the very esoteric form of epilepsy that was the solution. I like my mysteries where I have a chance of solving the case on my own before the episode's reveal, and this one was far too hard to do.

[possibilities]

I thought for sure the godparents were responsible for the kid disappearing, and was shocked that the team didn't even consider them even when they got stuck.

It never occurred to me that their daughters might be involved!!

Hunky Nebraska Detective sure is earning his keep.

[LisaM]

The only part that I am looking forward to is the potential adoption of the bartender's baby. I think that the lead actress is terrible. Nice to see Michael B. Silver who I remember from NYPD Blue. 

[shapeshifter]

I kept falling asleep because of exhaustion, but I didn't miss anything -- the advantage of a simplistic, repetitive plot and arcs.

[AnimeMania]

The only thing that bothered me was how the kids planned everything without cars. How did they know when Robbie's father would be gone. How did the girls get to Robbie's house. How did the girls know the guy was driving near their second home. How did the girls know what time the guy was driving near their second home. How did the girls know what time the guy was driving back their second home. How did the girls get back home from Robbie's house.

[possibilities]

I don't think the girls went with him to the 2nd house.

I think they were counting on dad thinking Robbie was asleep, and not checking on him for as long as it took for them to make the escape (a few minutes).

So the girls take a taxi or the bus or train (lots of options in NYC) to Robbie's place. They help him escape.

They said they knew that the van from grandpa's business goes to Rockaway twice a day, so presumably that's where the guy lives, or maybe there's an office there or something like that.

Robbie stows away in the van and the girls go home.

It's a lot of things that had to line up and work out just right, and also there was no way viewers could have put the clues together ahead of the reveal, because there really was no evidence to suggest any of that, and even the detectives had to rely on figuring out the right suspects and then them confessing.

But a child-executed plan doesn't really have to make sense. They got lucky, is how they managed to pull it off. Dad could have caught them coming or going. Someone on the street could have noticed and made a ruckus. They could have missed the van or been caught in the van if the driver had looked in the back for any reason, or opened up the back doors to put something in or take something out..

It was basically a terrible plan, but they were little kids, and it was tv luck that made it work for them.

--

The show also could have had the detectives make sure the dad and grandfather didn't run into each other at the station when the grandfather was brought in. All they had to do was communicate between the officers, and delay bringing grandpa into the room until dad was moved out. But they wanted the drama of a confrontation between the adults, and a way for Hunky Nebraskan to do a tackle, just like they wanted the drama of the kids succeeding at their stunt and the other cop wearing his bike duds half the episode.

--

The thing I didn't understand was: why did they use that jump rope instead of the fire escape?

Edited July 15, 2019 by possibilities

[EAG46]

The girls used the jump rope to pull the fire escape down, since they weren't tall enough to pull it down themselves.  Is there a lot of improbable happenstance on this show? Yes. Do I really care? No. It's a Sunday night show meant to ease people from the weekend into the week ahead.  I'm just glad the boy is going to stay with the godparents for a while while his dad and his grandparents get their shit together.  Nice to see Hot Nebraska Cop be both smart and strong too.

[AnimeMania]

I think a lot about every show I watch. You wouldn't believe how hard, when the Dad handed the boy the stuffed animal and said do you want "Cheetah". What! He is not orange! He does not have spots! (Have a closer view) Is that a monkey! It is a chimpanzee! Oh, Cheeta!

It would have been better if the girls had hidden Robbie somewhere in the God Parents house without the parents knowledge. Then I would only have to wonder did the alarm the father set include the window. Did Robbie turn off the alarm? Would it have gone off when they opened the window? When the broke the window? Why did the window lock when they closed it? How did they know when Robbie's father would be gone. How did the girls get to Robbie's house. How did the girls get back home. Why did Robbie need the girls help to escape at all?

But that would have removed the creepy guy in a van with Robbie's blood in it. Maybe the police should start taking pictures of the crowds gathered at the crime scenes to get more suspects.

I did like the part where they helped the guy prove that he did not kill his wife, even though he was high off his mind on drugs at the time. I also liked that his wife was a drug addict even though her parents were pretending she was a Saint.

[possibilities]

But why did the girls need to pull the fire escape down? What good is a fire escape if you can't  use it to escape through a window without assistance from street level? I guess I don't understand those kinds of fire escapes.

LOL, AnimeMania, that is me. I have a friend who wrote a screenplay and I really liked it, but I kept trying to "help" her by pointing out implausibilities and she kept saying: "Have you ever seen a movie? People routinely ignore that level of detail." And she was right. It still happens in my head, though. Noticing things is a useful skill but only in specific circumstances, and there is a point of diminishing returns.

I totally didn't get why the stuffed animal was called "Cheetah" until you explained it, though it didn't bother me-- I just found it funny, like a dog named Gorilla or a cat named Mao.

[Mermaid Under]

Quote

It's a Sunday night show meant to ease people from the weekend into the week ahead.

And if they did it backwards, asleep, and standing on their heads, it would still be more fun to watch than Love Island.  Did CBS used to be known as a classy network, or am I imagining it?

I liked the portrayal of the terrified kid, living in anger and chaos, and dealing with it by being ultra-obedient and telling everyone around him exactly what they wanted to hear.  I think kids are sneakier (or smarter, choose the word that suits your opinion of children) than adults want to admit - I had no problem believing they could pull off their little plot.  Having a nice big weekend home to hide out in with no nosy neighbors to notice that someone was there when it should have been empty - that was the part I found unbelievable.

[AnimeMania]

20 minutes ago, Mermaid Under said:

Having a nice big weekend home to hide out in with no nosy neighbors to notice that someone was there when it should have been empty - that was the part I found unbelievable.

That's why I thought a closet/attic with an iPad and some headphones in the girls house would have worked just as well. They could have even snuck him some dinner. It was only for a day or two.

[Writing Wrongs]

They totally could've E.T.'d him.

[Trey]

4 hours ago, AnimeMania said:

I did like the part where they helped the guy prove that he did not kill his wife, even though he was high off his mind on drugs at the time. I also liked that his wife was a drug addict even though her parents were pretending she was a Saint.

I liked both those points too.

What a miracle that Andy's female employee is leaving because she is pregnant and is going to give up her baby! And it's not even Christmas. As sappy as that is, I do hope it works out for them.

[shapeshifter]

18 minutes ago, Trey said:

I liked both those points too.

What a miracle that Andy's female employee is leaving because she is pregnant and is going to give up her baby! And it's not even Christmas. As sappy as that is, I do hope it works out for them.

Coincidentally I heard an interview on NPR last Sunday with an author whose friend was trying on clothes in a store and overheard 2 teens talking about one being pregnant and not wanting the baby. The friend wound up adopting the baby. However, the author experienced having 3 open adoptions fall through after the baby was born.

[SunnyBeBe]

I caught only one episode of this show and while it held my interest, the outcome was rather absurd.  But, I am picky. Nothing about the young girls being responsible for getting the boy out of his room and across the county made sense.  Too contrived for my taste. Still, I'll try it again.  Even though,

There is something awkward about the two leads dialogue.  When they were chatting and walking down the street, there was just something awkward about their interaction.  Not sure if it's the script or direction.  And, then there was this odd phone call at the end about the husband's adoption application, in which the agency divulges personal information about his employee to him.  All kinds of strange.  Do they even bother with consultants for this show?

When I first tuned in, I got all excited, because, I initially mistook Cummings (lead) for another actor, Michael Emerson (Person of Interest).  I thought, oh yaaay, all they have to do is turn on the replay of the cameras and they'll see every person who entered and exited that apartment building!  That's how it worked on POI series.  So, this show will be a little of a let down, in that respect.  

[AnimeMania]

1 hour ago, SunnyBeBe said:

And, then there was this odd phone call at the end about the husband's adoption application, in which the agency divulges personal information about his employee to him. 

I don't think that was the husband's adoption application, but the girl working at the bar  adoption application. She was trying to get her baby adopted and they were looking for a conformation that she was employed there. Now that Andy and Dylan know that the girl wants to put her baby up for adoption, maybe they can convince her to stay working at the bar and help her with the financial and medical expenses.

2 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

When I first tuned in, I got all excited, because, I initially mistook Cummings (lead) for another actor, Michael Emerson (Person of Interest). 

Michael Emerson will be in the upcoming "Evil" TV Series airing on Sept. 26th. I am not sure how big his role is.

[SunnyBeBe]

8 hours ago, AnimeMania said:

I don't think that was the husband's adoption application, but the girl working at the bar  adoption application. She was trying to get her baby adopted and they were looking for a conformation that she was employed there. Now that Andy and Dylan know that the girl wants to put her baby up for adoption, maybe they can convince her to stay working at the bar and help her with the financial and medical expenses.

Michael Emerson will be in the upcoming "Evil" TV Series airing on Sept. 26th. I am not sure how big his role is.

Well, that's still odd. What kind of place would provide personal info like that to an employer? It would suffice to just confirm her employment, not give him her personal business. Just odd to me. 

[AnimeMania]

21 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Well, that's still odd. What kind of place would provide personal info like that to an employer? It would suffice to just confirm her employment, not give him her personal business. Just odd to me. 

If I worked at a bar I would never give out personal information about a bartender (especially female) like if they worked there or even if they would be working tonight without someone providing me with some information about who is asking. And remember he is a lawyer so he would know what kind of information you can give out to random telephone strangers. I am sure the person on the other end of the line said they were from So & So Adoption Agency and were doing a routine background check on a potential client.

[possibilities]

Maybe I'm wrong, but I was under the impression that she had told the agency that she wanted them to be the parents, and the agency was telling them that they had been selected and then explained that the biological mother chose them because she said she knew them because she had worked in their bar. And that she's leaving because once she places the baby with them, she is not going to want to stick around to see them raise it.

Also, why would the agency do a background check on the mother? It's the parents who are adopting who need to be checked out to show they are fit to be parents. The mother surrendering the baby would not have to prove her fitness.

[AnimeMania]

39 minutes ago, possibilities said:

Maybe I'm wrong, but I was under the impression that she had told the agency that she wanted them to be the parents, and the agency was telling them that they had been selected and then explained that the biological mother chose them because she said she knew them because she had worked in their bar. And that she's leaving because once she places the baby with them, she is not going to want to stick around to see them raise it.

Also, why would the agency do a background check on the mother? It's the parents who are adopting who need to be checked out to show they are fit to be parents. The mother surrendering the baby would not have to prove her fitness.

Agencies get tens of thousands of dollars to provide babies to people who want to adopt. I think the parents adopting a baby would want to know if the mother was a crack addict, smoked or drank during the pregnancy. The agency would also have to get permission from both parents and probably check that the grandparents won't raise a legal fuss. The agency would probably also check that the mother was regularly visiting a doctor and had proper living arrangements. It is illegal to pay a woman in exchange for adopting her baby, but people can pay the expenses of a mother in the hope that she will let you adopt her baby.

[SunnyBeBe]

8 hours ago, possibilities said:

Maybe I'm wrong, but I was under the impression that she had told the agency that she wanted them to be the parents, and the agency was telling them that they had been selected and then explained that the biological mother chose them because she said she knew them because she had worked in their bar. And that she's leaving because once she places the baby with them, she is not going to want to stick around to see them raise it.

Also, why would the agency do a background check on the mother? It's the parents who are adopting who need to be checked out to show they are fit to be parents. The mother surrendering the baby would not have to prove her fitness.

OH, well that makes more sense.  I might have to watch that scene again.  lol If she gave consent for them to give the info, that's different. 

Edited July 18, 2019 by SunnyBeBe

[AnimeMania]

2 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

OH, well that makes more sense.  I might have to watch that scene again.  lol If she gave consent for them to give the info, that's different. 

From my take away, the phone call was the first time that Andy had heard that the bartender was pregnant or that she was putting the baby up for adoption. This just gave Andy and Dylan the inside track to possibly adopting her baby.

[Orbert]

That was my take as well.  When Andy answered the phone and it was the adoption agency, he assumed that it was about Andy and Dylan's application.  He then got confused for a second when the person on the other end starting asking about the bartender.

[shapeshifter]

9 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

OH, well that makes more sense.

IRL I doubt that an adoption agency would reveal what their business with the employee unless she had listed Andy as a reference--in which case should would have asked him to be her reference in advance of the call. 
But I suppose if she if very young, she might not have bothered to ask him.
But do adoption agencies care about the place of occupation of their prospective mothers? I supposed if it was a bar in a location where smoking was still allowed, that would matter.

[AnimeMania]

42 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

IRL I doubt that an adoption agency would reveal what their business with the employee unless she had listed Andy as a reference--in which case should would have asked him to be her reference in advance of the call. 
But I suppose if she if very young, she might not have bothered to ask him.
But do adoption agencies care about the place of occupation of their prospective mothers? I supposed if it was a bar in a location where smoking was still allowed, that would matter.

Yes. an adoption agency does have to check all aspects of your life because they provide supplement income to birth mothers and to know how much they can give they have to inspect all the financial aspects of your life. Good adoption agencies give financial, medical, legal, and psychological support before and after the baby is adopted.

[shapeshifter]

2.4: "BigSplash," is not only the episode title, in the opening scene there's a line about "wanting to make a big splash" with the Sweet 16 party —which is a verbally clunky set up for the dead body making a literal splash because that doesn't happen until a few scenes later.

 I guess maybe they had Dylan say fruit is alkaline instead of acidic so kids at home wouldn't try to make poison, but more likely it's just those stupid Instinct writers up to their usual hijinks. 

Anyway, I knew "Ella" sounded like an odd name for a stepmom, but, Oy, this has to be the worst spin on Cinderella/Snow White ever. I'm not even sure the writers realized the poison apple routine is not from Cinderella.

FWIW, here's the referenced poison apple: ietravel.com/blog/beware-poison-apple-galapagos

I guess they're paying Alan Cumming in 3-piece suits. 

And I guess Kathryn Erbe (the real red herring) was just happy to work with AC.

[AnimeMania]

Kinda weird to have a murder where everybody liked the person that was killed. The ex-wife wasn't a big fan, but she didn't hate her.

Smooth move hitting on your boss, I think you have had enough to drink.

[mertensia]

Hee! Badgers mention!  And we did whip Nebraska's butt.

it's a diverting enough show. 

I did like that the daughter admitted she really was starting to like Ella, but felt she couldn't admit it.

[Kelda Feegle]

Lizzie needs to lay off nagging Julian about where he's going for work. 

[EAG46]

2 hours ago, Kelda Feegle said:

Lizzie needs to lay off nagging Julian about where he's going for work. 

Maybe these questions will break them up and send Lizzie into Hot Nebraska Cop's arms, like I predicted?  Nice to see Kathryn Erbe again, I miss Criminal Intent.  

[Writing Wrongs]

It's weird that the actor playing the one detective is on this show and on The InBetween. I kept thinking I was getting the shows confused.

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, Writing Wrongs said:

It's weird that the actor playing the one detective is on this show and on The InBetween. I kept thinking I was getting the shows confused.

Hah! Yeah. H!ITG! Michael B Silver: imdb.com/name/nm0006878/?ref_=tt_cl_t7

[12catcrazy]

On 7/22/2019 at 12:47 PM, EAG46 said:

Maybe these questions will break them up and send Lizzie into Hot Nebraska Cop's arms, like I predicted?  Nice to see Kathryn Erbe again, I miss Criminal Intent.  

Oh I LIKE Lizzie and Julian (and I never ship TV characters).  I keep wondering exactly why Hot Nebraska Cop is REALLY there, and they may fake us out by hooking up him and Lizzie but I keep thinking there has got to be another reason.  Maybe he is going to turn out to be not such a good guy after all? 

[Toothbrush]

1 hour ago, 12catcrazy said:

Oh I LIKE Lizzie and Julian (and I never ship TV characters).  I keep wondering exactly why Hot Nebraska Cop is REALLY there, and they may fake us out by hooking up him and Lizzie but I keep thinking there has got to be another reason.  Maybe he is going to turn out to be not such a good guy after all? 

I like Lizzie & Jules too, surprisingly because while I also rarely ship TV couple, I am resolutely anti-ship. Especially in a workplace-based show. I was happy when Dylan was presented as a gay man so we didn't have to go through the tedious WTWT?, but then they hooked up Lizzie & Jules. I wasn't happy at first, but they have chemistry, and their relationship hasn't (so far) taken over the show. But I could have done without boss lady pointing out the sparks between them. We get it show 🙄

Also agree on thinking NE cop may turn out to be a not-so-good guy. Not sure why, and I will be fine with being wrong because I like him, & am hoping he was not brought on to facilitate a Lizzie-Julian-Cornhusker love triangle. He & Dylan joining forces on the Sleeping Beauty case could make for an interesting arc, but if TPTB are hoping it will make viewers tune in for it, they need to devote more time than 2 minutes at the end of the ep. Andy's comment about how it's a good thing NE cop has a good personality to make up for the ugly was funny. 

It was nice to see Kathryn Erbe. She looks great. I miss Eames/Goren. 

Edited July 23, 2019 by Toothbrush

[shapeshifter]

I thought the conversations in Andy's restaurant with and about Hot NB Cop implied that he is gay, no?

[Toothbrush]

19 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

I thought the conversations in Andy's restaurant with and about Hot NB Cop implied that he is gay, no?

I didn't get that impression one way or another. I guess I can't get over the trope of the hot new character being introduced to be a fling for one of the leads so am looking for/anticipating it, while also dreading it. I'm ok (as much as I am ok with this trope at all) with hot Nebraska cop (HNC) being a bump in the Lizzie/Julian relationship, but the show better not mess with Dylan & Andy! 

[possibilities]

I assumed Nebraska hunk was the killer, posing as a cop, but it seemed like he's not, based on whoever was watching them on the roof.

I don't care about Jules-- he's boring to me, the convenient hacker to illegally obtain evidence and make Dylan look smarter than he is by cracking cases that can't be solved by legal means.

But I can't get over the idea that Nebraska isn't what he seems. Otherwise, he's too perfect. I like him, but I feel like they have to have a twist coming.

Then again, maybe this show isn't that subtle. Maybe they are just a straightforward show where the simplest answer is all there is, no surprises, and a hunky stranger is just a hunky stranger.

[sweetandsour]

Either the show is a little bit less clunky and hamfisted than season 1, or I've just grown to tolerate or not notice those aspects anymore. I'm finding season 2 an easier watch; maybe bc they've established Lizzie and Dylan working together as a pair vs. the their initial efforts to work out their dynamic.  The cases are still really flimsy, but that sort of contributes to the lightness of the show for me bc I don't have to pay that much attention and it's super easy to favor character interactions instead of the case.

But mostly, I am missing the true star of season 1 - Lizzie's coats!  Bring back the coats!  They probably filmed season 2 in different months of the year than they did season 1, but I loved those coats!

I'm also amazed at the snail's pace they are moving with the Sleeping Beauty case.  I know their cases are thin, so why would this be any different, but I guess they're planning on just dropping little nuggets along the way until an entire episode is dedicated to it.  If there isn't an entire episode, by the last episode, all we'll know about the killer is he likes to drink coffee or something.

[auntiemel]

On 7/22/2019 at 2:10 PM, shapeshifter said:

Hah! Yeah. H!ITG! Michael B Silver: imdb.com/name/nm0006878/?ref_=tt_cl_t7

He'll always be Ken Keller to me! 😄

[shapeshifter]

47 minutes ago, sweetandsour said:

Either the show is a little bit less clunky and hamfisted than season 1, or . . .

The writing might be a tiny bit better this year, but for me it's just that this show is actually a tiny bit better than Blood and Treasure and the equally ghastly Reef Break.

With so many services and venues and platforms available to bring TV shows to viewers, overall quality is bound to dip even as some gems rise to outshine everything that has gone before.

[AnimeMania]

46 minutes ago, sweetandsour said:

I'm also amazed at the snail's pace they are moving with the Sleeping Beauty case.

I can't really say they are moving slow, how many people has he/she killed, two? That would hardly be enough evidence to say the two murders were related since they happened one thousand, five hundred miles apart. Can only two bodies be enough to label the murderer a serial killer? I am guessing the new picture of another body, finally confirmed both things.

[sweetandsour]

34 minutes ago, AnimeMania said:

I can't really say they are moving slow, how many people has he/she killed, two? That would hardly be enough evidence to say the two murders were related since they happened one thousand, five hundred miles apart. Can only two bodies be enough to label the murderer a serial killer? I am guessing the new picture of another body, finally confirmed both things.

To me, it feels slow considering the case of the week gets solved every episode while the SB case moves forward one bit.  Even if they don't discover much very quickly, Fucci and Ryan are obviously working it consistently (I think it's Ryan's only case, except for when he helped with the apparent kidnapping), but we only get tiny pieces of what they're doing at a time. It's not like Lizzie and Dylan's cases are written so substantively that they truly necessitate most of the airtime.  The pace of the SB discovery is actually way more realistic, I would think, than the case of the week, but I prefer arcs that span most/all of a season to be more engaging than this.  That's just me, though!