The Annual Rock And Roll Hall of Fame - General Discussion

[Hanahope]

I haven't watched it all, seen about half so far.  This may not be in the correct order.

 

1.  Peter Gabriel - The intro by Chris from Coldplay started slow, but I liked the "bible" reading.  Peter still sounds pretty decent.

 

2.  Linda Ronstadt - Surprised she hadn't been inducted previously.  Boy those songs were great, brought back a lot of memories.  I didn't realize that her original backing band was the Eagles, hah.  I had to look up that the reason she wasn't there was because she's been diagnosed with Parkinsons, so can't travel or sing.  The tributes were great, all those women sounded wonderful on Linda's songs.  A bit surprised there was no mention whatsoever of Linda's Mexican heritage and her later work.

 

3.  Kiss - I knew they weren't performing because only the original four were being inducted. Nice that at least they all got along well enough to be on stage together to accept the award.  I see Paul Stanley has had botox or other facial work, since he seemed to be the only one without wrinkles.  I didn't realize how short Peter Criss was.

 

4.  Cat Stevens - I didn't know too much of his stuff, a tad before my time.  Wow, was he hot.  My husband has a friend whose a dead ringer for him.  He sounds great too.  I thought it interesting (or perhaps expected) that they didn't go into too much into Cat's conversion to Muslim.

 

5.  E Street Band - Not that I don't begrudge their induction, and maybe this is due to my never having really been a Bruce fan, but really did they deserve separate recognition?  I mean, isn't the criteria for induction having some sort of impact or influence and I just don't see how the band has impact or influence beyond being Bruce's band.  And there's been a lot of changes to the members.  So why do all the members of E Street get inducted and not all the members of Kiss?  That's also been the reason I've heard why Deep Purple hasn't been inducted - too many changing members.  So what's the difference?

 

6.  Hall & Oats - Hah, I knew Darryl would make a comment about being the only Philly group inducted and how that's just not right.  There's been a lot of that in the Philly news.  They still sound fantastic.

 

Will watch the rest later tonight.

[Slade347]

The E Street Band got inducted through the Award for Musical Excellence category, which is what the R&R HoF is calling their sidemen category these days. Also, the people that got inducted were those that were in the band in the 70's and 80's.

 

The R&R HoF does have a strange record on who does and doesn't get inducted from bands, with Bob Welch and Fleetwood Mac being a prime example. 

 

I haven't had a chance to watch this yet. Maybe I'll pull it up On Demand this weekend.

Edited June 12, 2014 by Slade347

[Hanahope]

Finished it up tonight, only band left was Nirvana (I only watched a bit of the E-Street Band, it just wasn't my thing).  It was nice that Kurt's mother was there and I suppose Courtney just had to show up too.  And thanks Dave for remembering Pat Smear too.

 

But the performances, ugh.  I didn't think any of the singers did any of the songs justice, though the third one, I missed her name, she wasn't one I recognized, was the best.  While I'd like to say its just because I'm used to Kurt's voice on the songs, I thought the singers doing the Linda Ronstadt songs were great, so I think it was just bad singing.  Sorry Joan and Kim, you're voices aren't what they used to be.  Lorde wasn't bad at the singing, but when you're doing someone else's song at their induction ceremony, don't make the performance about you. 

 

Thanks for the info about the sidemen category.  I didn't realize that was part of it too.

Edited June 13, 2014 by Hanahope

[Sir RaiderDuck OMS]

3.  Kiss - I knew they weren't performing because only the original four were being inducted. Nice that at least they all got along well enough to be on stage together to accept the award.  I see Paul Stanley has had botox or other facial work, since he seemed to be the only one without wrinkles.  I didn't realize how short Peter Criss was.

 

5.  E Street Band - Not that I don't begrudge their induction, and maybe this is due to my never having really been a Bruce fan, but really did they deserve separate recognition?  I mean, isn't the criteria for induction having some sort of impact or influence and I just don't see how the band has impact or influence beyond being Bruce's band.  And there's been a lot of changes to the members.  So why do all the members of E Street get inducted and not all the members of Kiss?  That's also been the reason I've heard why Deep Purple hasn't been inducted - too many changing members.  So what's the difference?

The E Street Band got in because Dave Marsh (who helps run the HoF) is a big, big Bruce Springsteen fan who's written something like 6 or 7 biographies of the guy. Marsh also hates KISS and single-handedly kept them out for years, only relenting when their continued exclusion became a bigger story than the Hall itself.

 

The picking and choosing the Hall has practiced towards which band members are allowed in is a little ridiculous. Heart, like KISS, was only allowed to induct its members from the 1970s and none from the 1980s (when they had a commercial resurgence with some big hits). The Grateful Dead, on the other hand, got to induct everyone who'd ever played with them and were even allowed to include songwriter Robert Hunter, who was never in the band itself and never played with them in any album or concert! Similarly, Nirvana was allowed to induct original drummer Chad Channing, whose recorded contributions consist of part of their debut album.

[Inquisitionist]

all those women sounded wonderful on Linda's songs.

 

Amem.  What a powerhouse line-up performing a heartfelt tribute.

 

They still sound fantastic.

 

I never bought a Hall & Oates album, but I had an opportunity to hear them live a few years go, and color me impressed.  I had never realized before then how strong their musicianship is.  Really outstanding.

P.S.  I'm actually watching it now.  The E Street segment is going on far too long.  As I ffwd'd through some of it, I kept wondering why they were showing some dude who looked like an executive.  Turns out that was drummer Max Weinberg.

Edited June 29, 2014 by Inquisitionist

[smind]

Nirvana wasn't allowed to have Channing as part of the band inducted. Raised a bit of a stink in Seattle.

[Hanahope]

The E Street segment is going on far too long.

 

With all the cutting back and forth they did, I suspect the "segment" went as long as a typical Bruce concert.

[scarynikki12]

 

all those women sounded wonderful on Linda's songs.

I was particularly impressed with Carrie Underwood's cover of Different Drum.  I don't dislike Carrie, but about 90% of her music is forgettable for me.  I enjoyed her enough that I would be first in line to buy an album of Linda Ronstadt cover songs if she were so inclined.  

 

I really liked that Nirvana brought out female singers to sub for Kurt, but I have to agree that they chose the wrong ones.  I wonder if they'd have sounded better if the songs hadn't been straight covers?  I know the point of this show is to pay tribute to the way the songs were originally, as that's what made them popular, but none of the singers sounding good ruins it so why not just change it up.  Joan probably could have done better with a different song, I have no idea who that Kim woman is but she sucked, the third singer was fine (maybe she should have done Smells Like Teen Spirit?) and Lorde sounded awful.  Surely they rehearse for this show, right?  There must be someone who can step in and let them know they didn't sound good.  

 

That said, I really liked seeing Kurt's family.  I know nothing about them, but his mom was moving, and it's nice that those girls (his sisters?) were there for her.  Despite my lack of enjoyment of the performances, I did like the cuts to her in the audience, as she looked so happy to be seeing those songs performed again.  Courtney wasn't nearly as nuts as I'd expected though I wish Frances had been feeling well enough to attend.  

 

I didn't mind the E Street induction, but I wish they'd done it when the Big Man was still alive, cause he'd have been having more fun than anyone.  I liked Bruce's speech a lot and I definitely felt his regret at not insisting they be inducted along with him ten years ago when his ego was still in charge of this kind of thing.  

 

I think KISS deserved to get inducted but, after their nasty remarks about rap music not belonging, I don't really care and am glad they didn't perform.

 

All in all, I enjoyed last year's ceremony more, but thought this had some real gems.  Question though: is there any way to tell why some get in super fast and others wait decades?  Everyone and their mother knew Nirvana would get in the first year they were eligible but Pat Benatar is still off the list.  Is it simply voting or does the HoF runners play a major part like in keeping KISS out?  

[Sir RaiderDuck OMS]

I think KISS deserved to get inducted but, after their nasty remarks about rap music not belonging, I don't really care and am glad they didn't perform.

 

All in all, I enjoyed last year's ceremony more, but thought this had some real gems.  Question though: is there any way to tell why some get in super fast and others wait decades?  Everyone and their mother knew Nirvana would get in the first year they were eligible but Pat Benatar is still off the list.  Is it simply voting or does the HoF runners play a major part like in keeping KISS out?

I wouldn't necessarily call KISS's comments about rap "nasty," but rather making a point that rap and rock are different art forms, and rap artists should not be in the Rock HoF.

And as Dave Marsh has admitted that he kept KISS out of the HoF for years, it can be safely assumed that he or others have kept other worthy acts out as well in favor of their pet bands.

[Inquisitionist]

rap and rock are different art forms, and rap artists should not be in the Rock HoF.

 

OTOH, this HoF's definition of rock and roll seems so expansive that I'm surprised Yo-Yo Ma hasn't made the cut.

[scarynikki12]

 

this HoF's definition of rock and roll seems so expansive

Which I like a lot.  If they were narrow minded in their approach, we wouldn't have Johnny Cash, Aretha Franklin, Hank Williams, Woody Guthrie, Louis Armstrong, BB King, or, as recently as last year, Albert King, to name a few.  All of these performers deserved to be inducted, as they either had tremendous influence on rock and roll or incorporated aspects of it at various parts of their careers, but none of them were actual rock performers.  That's one thing I really like about the various people who have been inducted.  There's a recognition that, no matter what form of music they specifically play, their roots come from the same place as Chuck Berry and Elvis (and Public Enemy specifically pointed that out last year in response to the position that rap artists don't belong).  Because, in all honesty, if they narrowed their focus, none of this year's inductees would have qualified as they have little in common with the founders of rock themselves (other than using guitars as a lot of those guys didn't always have drums) and this ceremony would have ended as soon as it started.  But music is fluid, always changing, and that's reflected in the inductees.  

[Inquisitionist]

Which I like a lot.

 

Oh, I don't disagree.  Just my way of taking issue with the statement that rap (which I don't even particularly like) doesn't belong in the R'n'R HoF, given the breadth of musical "influences" that the Hall has honored.   Now when will Carly Simon get in, already?  :-)

[scarynikki12]

And Pat Benatar! In fact, let's have a ceremony or two where only women get inducted. That'd be cool.

Edited July 7, 2014 by scarynikki12

[Inquisitionist]

the third singer was fine

 

Annie Clark, also known by the stage name St. Vincent.

[Hanahope]

Pat Benatar isn't already in?  That is a travesty.  I recently read her auto-biography and it was very good.  I have great admiration for her talent and ability to eventually gain control of her career.  I would love to see her perform at the ceremony, since I know she still sings.

[Constantinople]

Caught only a little bit of this.  Unfortunately it was the part where Glenn Frey was giving the induction speech for Linda Ronstadt, and in the brief time I watched before I couldn't take him any more and turned the channel, Glenn made it more about himself and the Eagles than Linda.

 

But I've never really liked the idea of a Rock & Roll Hall of Fame.

[CherryMalotte]

I've always thought it was really crappy that Bob Welch wasn't part of Fleetwood Mac's induction.  He's all over Bare Trees, which is one of their best albums.  And, the whole Dave Clark Five deal was pretty raw as well - if it had only been a year earlier.  

 

There is a shocking lack of women - though I was more than pleasantly surprised to see Laura Nyro get her due a couple of years back.  Carrie Underwood did a great job on the Ronstadt tribute.

 

If only X could get in.  *sigh*

[DrSparkles]

Not a Carrie U fan (more that I'm unfamiliar) but girl brought it!!! That whole segment was awesome.

I fucking LOVED the Nirvana songs. JJ, love; Kim G, love; was unfamiliar w others but goddamn St Vincent killed IMO. Dave & Krist clearly were loving them.

And no one has more fun than Dave Grohl. LOVE him.

[roamyn]

And as Dave Marsh has admitted that he kept KISS out of the HoF for years, it can be safely assumed that he or others have kept other worthy acts out as well in favor of their pet bands.

Well I know Pink Floyd was kept out for a long time past their eligibility, due to Roger Waters lawsuit.

So there might be other obstacles keeping a band out, than someone's keeping them out.

[CherryMalotte]

Well here's the next crop to choose from.  I think Stevie Ray is a shoo in, as he should be.  

[junemeatcleaver]

Do you think The Smiths will get in light of Morrissey's revelation that he underwent cancer treatments?

 

N.W.A's on the ballot.  I can't wait for some folks in the comments sections of newssites misinterpreting the purpose of the RnR HoF.

[Slade347]

Well here's the next crop to choose from.  I think Stevie Ray is a shoo in, as he should be.  

Maybe, but he's been eligible for a while and this is his first nomination.

 

I think most of these are pretty worthy. I'm not sure anyone is a slam dunk guarantee like Nirvana was last year, although Nine Inch Nails and Green Day are pretty close. 

[Hanahope]

Quite the eclectic bunch.

[roamyn]

Pat Benatar isn't already in? That is a travesty. I recently read her auto-biography and it was very good. I have great admiration for her talent and ability to eventually gain control of her career. I would love to see her perform at the ceremony, since I know she still sings.

Esp.since her husband is from Parma, a south suburb of Cleveland.

Maybe they're waiting for the ceremony to cycle back to Cleveland to induct Ms. Benetar, since more family can show up to support them, and more fans.

[Dancingjaneway]

I don't understand how both Pat Benatar and Journey haven't been considered. It makes me question the thought process of those in charge.

[CherryMalotte]

Well here we go.

 

No Kraftwerk or Chic?  Bummer...

[Misslindsey]

Green Day has been my favorite band for what seems like forever and Billie Joe is a great frontman. They are great live. I am thrilled that they are being inducted. If they end up playing Paper Lanterns I will love them even more.

Edited December 16, 2014 by Misslindsey

[scarynikki12]

Glad to see they listened to Kris Novoselic and got Joan Jett in there this next go round. 

[WendyCR72]

Rather than a new thread every year, this will now be the default free-standing thread for the annual Rock and Roll Hall of Fame talk, be it voting or the actual ceremony!

 

Discuss away!

[Constantinople]

Ringo Starr?

[MsTree]

Ringo Starr?

 

My thoughts exactly.

[CherryMalotte]

That version of Crimson & Clover was pretty fucking awesome.  Whatever Tommy James was doing during the 60's & 70's, it must have been the good stuff - he looks and sings really well.

 

Very happy for Joan, and I can't wait for the Bill Withers tribute. 

[nilyank]

 

 

Ringo Starr?

 

My thoughts exactly.

 

 

It got 2 Beatles performing onstage (with various other Hall of Famers and generally good musicians). I don't think they could ask for more than that.

[CherryMalotte]

Not a bad show, the beginning seemed a bit rushed to me, but it was enjoyable.  I loved the speech that Bill Withers gave, he seemed to be just having a good time being there.   

[Constantinople]

It got 2 Beatles performing onstage...I don't think they could ask for more than that.

 

Short of a Ouija board, no, you couldn't ask for more.

[scarynikki12]

I've always enjoyed Bill Withers' music but I never realized how delightful the man himself is.  His speech was a treat and I want him to have his own show where he just cracks jokes and talks about whatever he wants. 

 

I'll never like John Mayer the man but I'm always happy to see him at the Hall of Fame ceremony because he is such an amazing guitar player.

 

Gary Clark Jr manages to get hotter each time I see him play.  How does he do that?

 

I'm not going to lie, I totally though Miley had slipped past security and crashed Joan's performance.  So I was relieved that she clarified her presence by explaining that she's a Joan fan (as she should be) and that they already had an established relationship.  And Joanie (the part of my brain that is convinced we'll one day be BFF calls her that) rocked like the badass she's always been.

[DrSparkles]

Dave Grohl. Man I'd like to be friends w him, so fun!! Joan Jett! Yesssssssssssss. Miley, nooooooooooooo.

[DollEyes]

My verdict: great show. Some of the induction & acceptance speeches were funny while others were touching, specifically Green Day's acceptance speeches, in which they talked about their childhood and Billie Joe Armstrong's claim that all his friends would come to his mom's house to get stoned. The touching moments were when GD honored their families, especially Billie Joe's tributes to his wife and cute sons and Mike's props to his wife Brittany, a cancer survivor. The 5 Royales and their tribute from their surviving family members was also sweet.

 

 For all his faults,John Mayer is a great guitarist, I'll give him that.  Gary Clark Jr. plays as good as he looks, if not even better.

 

Laurie Anderson's tribute to Lou Reed was beautiful. When she called him "the love of [her] life," I believed it.

 

  Whenever John Legend performs at an awards ceremony it's awesome, whether it's last year's Grammys, when he publically performed "All Of Me" in front of his wife Chrissy Teigen (who inspired it)for the first time, this year's Oscars, with his powerful performance of "Glory," his Oscar-winning song with Common from Selma or during the tribute to Bill Withers with his takes on "Use Me" & Lean On Me." Stevie Wonder's version of "Ain't No Sunshine" made it even better.

 

Ringo Starr definitely belongs in the RRHoF because he was not only one of the members of the Beatles, one of the most-if not the most-important rock bands of all time, like his fellow Beatles, he was a successful solo artist in his own right. Any drummer who can influence both Dave Grohl & Questlove must be doing something right.

 

  If a woman had to induct Joan Jett, why did it have to be Miley Cyrus? Was Pat Benatar booked?

 

Bill Withers, Joan Jett & Ringo Starr should have their own talk show. Imagine the stories they could tell!

Edited June 1, 2015 by DollEyes

[Constantinople]

Ringo Starr definitely belongs in the RRHoF because he was not only one of the members of the Beatles, one of the most-if not the most-important rock bands of all time...

The Beatles already were inducted into the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame, 27 years ago.

 

Ringo Starr definitely belongs in the RRHoF because he was not only one of the members of the Beatles, one of the most-if not the most-important rock bands of all time, like his fellow Beatles, he was a successful solo artist in his own right. Any drummer who can influence both Dave Grohl & Questlove must be doing something right.

IMO, the standard for induction should be higher than "successful solo artist" and "doing something right".

 

If those are the standards, the question isn't who should be in the Hall, but who shouldn't.

[revbfc]

I really did like the show, but I'm still not happy about the double-dipping. Yes, Ringo and Lou Reed are legends. Yes, I love their solo works (especially Reed's). My problem is that they are already IN the HOF. Would it have killed them to allow two acts that have not been honored to get their due [*cough* THE SMITHS *cough*]?

[Inquisitionist]

Ringo's induction did not prevent the Smiths or any other musical act from also being inducted.  His entry was through the Musical Excellence Category.  Green Day, Joan Jett, et al,  were inducted in the Performers category. Presumably that's where people think the Smiths and others belong as well.

[revbfc]

Ringo's induction did not prevent the Smiths or any other musical act from also being inducted. His entry was through the Musical Excellence Category. Green Day, Joan Jett, et al, were inducted in the Performers category. Presumably that's where people think the Smiths and others belong as well.

What about Lou Reed?

[Inquisitionist]

I don't care about Lou Reed. I was addressing Ringo.  :-)

[scrambled eggs]

Just finished watching. It was a little strange to see Green Day inducted because they're basically my age--I'm almost exactly a year younger than Billie Joe. Given the 25-year requirement, they have to be among the youngest inductees. My guess is Stevie Wonder was the youngest at induction. 

 

I thought the show would end at "With a Litte Help from My Friends," but it wound up feeling more appropriate to end with Ringo on the drums. 

[Hanahope]

Joan Jett still sounded great.  That's an induction to be proud of.  She was a major inspiration to a lot of female musicians.  Would have preferred someone other than Miley Cyrus doing the intro, someone like Pink would have been cool.  Its a shame I can't think of any young female musician that plays the guitar atm.

 

I too was a bit surprised at Green Day getting in so soon.  Not that they don't deserve it, it just seems pretty early for the Hall to recognize punk rockers.  Usually it takes an extra decade. ;)

[DollEyes]

The Beatles already were inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall Of Fame, 27 years ago.

 

IMO, the standard for induction should be higher than "successful solo artist" and "doing something right" . 

 

If those are the standards, the question isn't who should be in the Hall, but who shouldn't.

 

I respectfully disagree. For one thing, I know that the Beatles are already in the RRHoF. However, just because one performer was already inducted before, that shouldn't mean that they shouldn't get it again if they deserve it, which Ringo Starr, IMO, does.  My standards for induction are very high. I don't believe that just any musician belongs there. My point is that I believe that Ringo Starr belongs there as a solo artist because of his influence on some of the most important drummers in the music business in general and rock & roll in particular.  I don't always agree with the RRHoF either, but when it comes to Ringo Starr, I think they got it right.

[tljgator]

After listening to Joan Jett's opening with "Don't Give a Damn About My Reputation," I was really struck later by how much the punk-pop sound of bands like Green Day was influenced by what she did decades before them. I hadn't really thought much about it before -- as noted above, I tend to think of her as leading the way for women in rock who front bands of their own, etc. -- but, really, that whole sound owes much to her.  I really appreciated that connection among the inductees.

[Ohwell]

Did I miss something, or did they only spend like 5 minutes with the 5 Royales tribute?  The spokesman and the children were up there, but did anyone do a song tribute?  My favorite song of theirs was "I Know It's Hard, But It's Fair."  My uncles used to sing it when I was a kid.

 

Also, is John Legend the only black male singer out there now?  I'm tired every awards show dragging him out to perform. 

[carrier76]

Also, is John Legend the only black male singer out there now? I'm tired every awards show dragging him out to perform.

Kind of how I feel about Stevie Wonder. Sorry.

[revbfc]

Did I miss something, or did they only spend like 5 minutes with the 5 Royales tribute? The spokesman and the children were up there, but did anyone do a song tribute? My favorite song of theirs was "I Know It's Hard, But It's Fair." My uncles used to sing it when I was a kid.

Also, is John Legend the only black male singer out there now? I'm tired every awards show dragging him out to perform.

I wasn't happy about that either. I think they were inducted as part of the "Early Influences" category and don't get the same tribute as a result. Then again, Ringo gets a performance and was inducted in a special category.

Also, Kraftwerk deserved induction more than Stevie Ray Vaughn.