LuAnn de Lesseps: No Longer a Countess, Still Never a Princess

[LilaFowler]

Luann's kids are really pretty good-looking.

[ScoobieDoobs]

Well, Victoria was always good looking, just really scraggly -- like she never washed or combed her hair or showered.  If she cleans herself up & loses that dour, vacant look she usually had, she's quite attractive.  Noel was always a cute boy.  He's really becoming great looking as he's maturing.  Fortunately for the kids, they look mostly like Lu.

Edited August 9, 2014 by ScoobieDoobs

[Satchels of gold]

I will just put this here.

Edited September 2, 2014 by Lisin
Fixed image

[ScoobieDoobs]

Congrats to Lu for selling her house!  Oh well, she got 2 Mil less than she originally wanted, but still -- bitch still got 8 Mil!  Pretty good for a nurse from West Connecticut, eh?

 

http://danspapers.com/2014/09/hamptons-real-estate-by-the-numbers/

[ryebread]

The Countess doesn't use vulgar terms like "teams". They are "alliances", dahling.

http://www.examiner.com/article/luann-de-lesseps-talks-aviva-drescher-s-rhonj-departure-says-alliances-change

As for what viewers will see in the upcoming season, it may be different friendships. LuAnn said that viewers are “going to see some shifts in alliances." Last season, Carole Radziwill, Heather Thomson and Kristen Taekman stuck together while Ramona Singer and Sonja Morgan were their own team. LuAnn, who got along better with Carole, Heather and Kristen last season, said that she's currently cordial with Ramona but still probably wouldn't call her for help if she was in a bind.

Sonja Morgan has posted a few photos of her filming season seven of "The Real Housewives of New York City" with Ramona Singer, including one of Ramona's dinner party in the Hamptons, so it seems that they're still good friends. So perhaps LuAnn de Lesseps' comment about alliances changing means that the team of Carole Radziwill, Heather Thomson and Kristen Taekman is under pressure?

[EtheltoTillie]

I can't resist.  My friend just texted me a picture of his girlfriend posing with Countess Luanne at a spa in Florida.  Luanne looks good, but I have to question her taste in dresses.  She is wearing a knit dress with wide horizontal black and white stripes--e.g., she's ready for a casting call for Oh, Sister, Where Art Thou.

[Mozelle]

I don't even know if this is the right place to post this news, but Jean-Claude Baker, owner of Chez Josephine, has died. I put it in here mainly because I remember that LuAnn sang there in one season, or a party was hosted at the spot some seasons back.

 

Chez Josephine Owner Jean-Claude Baker Has Died

[imjagain]

I watched WWHL this morning as I got ready, Andy read some of Lu's tweets to the other women. She went after Carol and Heather. Anybody have any scoop? What happened between them?

[comatoast]

No inside scoop, but LMAO at her tweet about Carol doing some good old fashioned storytelling with the children!!

[shoegal]

I watched WWHL this morning as I got ready, Andy read some of Lu's tweets to the other women. She went after Carol and Heather. Anybody have any scoop? What happened between them?

It would seem by her tweets that she is upset that Carole is dating Adam, and that Carole didn't tell her sooner. Whether it's out of loyalty to her niece or jealousy like maybe she wanted a piece, seems rather shitty of the Countess IMO.

Not sure about Heather but from the previews, they get into it over Heather being "uncool" about Luann fucking guys on vacation?

[slitz]

It would seem by her tweets that she is upset that Carole is dating Adam, and that Carole didn't tell her sooner. Whether it's out of loyalty to her niece or jealousy like maybe she wanted a piece, seems rather shitty of the Countess IMO.

Not sure about Heather but from the previews, they get into it over Heather being "uncool" about Luann fucking guys on vacation?

 

Having only seen the previews, I can kinda get why Heather might have been upset.  Waking up to a strange man that you don't know in your vacation home would probably upset a lot of people.  I mean, yeah, Luanne can have whoever she wants to overnight in her own home, but when you're sharing a home with other people, it seems a little classless as the Countess would say.  I could be wrong, but when they went to St. Bart's didn't they all have separate quarters and such, so the pirate guy probably wasn't such a big deal because of that?  This looks more like they're all in one large vacation home.  

[KFC]

I'm mostly surprised (cynic that I am) that this seems to be a legit beef between Luann and Carole/Heather.

 

I've become so jaded to the possibility/likelihood that most of the fights we see on the HW shows are faked for the cameras, and given how chummy Lu seemed to be with Heather and Carole last season, I assumed whatever issues they might have this season would be to drum up a storyline. But it really does appear as if Carole and Adam are an item and Lu is legitimately pissed off about it.

 

I don't really have much invested in their feud other than my general surprise that it seems like non-fabricated one and I'm looking forward to watching it unfold over the season.

[MatildaMoody]

I'm mostly surprised (cynic that I am) that this seems to be a legit beef between Luann and Carole/Heather.

 

I've become so jaded to the possibility/likelihood that most of the fights we see on the HW shows are faked for the cameras, and given how chummy Lu seemed to be with Heather and Carole last season, I assumed whatever issues they might have this season would be to drum up a storyline. But it really does appear as if Carole and Adam are an item and Lu is legitimately pissed off about it.

 

I don't really have much invested in their feud other than my general surprise that it seems like non-fabricated one and I'm looking forward to watching it unfold over the season.

 

 

I am really surprised at Lu's reaction to Carole dating Adam. Both she and Sonja seem to have an odd attitude that because Adam works for Lu it is inappropriate to date him. But, it seems to me it would be much more awkward having an actual relative - her niece date someone who works for her because if it ended badly, things could get really tense. 

 

But having someone who is in Lu's social circle and isn't like to be spending a great deal of time around Lu or her niece would seem pretty normal to me. 

 

I get it might be awkward if the niece still had feelings for Adam, but it seems they ended on good terms about a year prior to this, so what is the big deal? Am I missing something with Lu's reaction to this?

Edited April 30, 2015 by MatildaMoody

[Grneyedldy]

I thought Lu met Adam through her niece. Then Lu "hired" him. I wonder how often Lu hired Adam if there were no Bravo cameras around?

[bosawks]

Caveat emptor...

[WireWrap]

Having only seen the previews, I can kinda get why Heather might have been upset.  Waking up to a strange man that you don't know in your vacation home would probably upset a lot of people.  I mean, yeah, Luanne can have whoever she wants to overnight in her own home, but when you're sharing a home with other people, it seems a little classless as the Countess would say.  I could be wrong, but when they went to St. Bart's didn't they all have separate quarters and such, so the pirate guy probably wasn't such a big deal because of that?  This looks more like they're all in one large vacation home.  

Bringing a strange guy into a house where there are several women staying, with no locks on bedroom doors is, IMO, dangerous! No one cares who LuAnn or any of the single HWs sleep with but that does not mean she/they have the right to endanger the other HWs. If this is where the fight between Heather/LuAnn starts, LuAnn is wrong big time. I suspect that LuAnn is also mad at Heather because she, Heather, does not disapprove of Carole dating Adam.

 

Petty, my poop doesn't stink, Countess LuAnn is back with a vengeance. I wonder if she aligned with Heather/Carole last season because she knew her neck was on the line, so she faked being friends with them!

[slitz]

Bringing a strange guy into a house where there are several women staying, with no locks on bedroom doors is, IMO, dangerous! No one cares who LuAnn or any of the single HWs sleep with but that does not mean she/they have the right to endanger the other HWs. If this is where the fight between Heather/LuAnn starts, LuAnn is wrong big time. I suspect that LuAnn is also mad at Heather because she, Heather, does not disapprove of Carole dating Adam.

 

I agree 100%.  It's one thing when you have your own private quarters WITH locking doors...it's another thing entirely when you are sharing space.

 

Edited because sometimes it helps to read the post you're quoting!  D'oh!  ;)

Edited May 7, 2015 by slitz

[KFC]

Normally I'd agree about the security issue, although don't forget that this is a reality show. There are camera crew everywhere, boom mic guys, production assistants, field producers, etc. And I'm willing to guess that there are show chaperones watching the filming location if they have to be someplace overnight. It's pretty standard with most reality shows. The producers don't want anything happening that they could be sued for.

 

So if Heather IS the one who gets upset at Luann bringing a guy home, I'd say her outrage is for-the-cameras or a cover for some other issue the two of them have.

[WireWrap]

I agree 100%.  It's one thing when you have your own private quarters WITH locking doors...it's another thing entirely when you are sharing space.

 

I'm confused though as to why you think Luann is mad at Heather because Heather disapproves of Carole dating Adam.  Wouldn't she be happy about that since she's so vocal about her own disapproval of it?  Plus I haven't really seen Heather be disapproving.

Heather does NOT disapprove! LOL In other words, Heather approves or is ok with Carole dating Adam. We agree. LOL

[WireWrap]

Normally I'd agree about the security issue, although don't forget that this is a reality show. There are camera crew everywhere, boom mic guys, production assistants, field producers, etc. And I'm willing to guess that there are show chaperones watching the filming location if they have to be someplace overnight. It's pretty standard with most reality shows. The producers don't want anything happening that they could be sued for.

 

So if Heather IS the one who gets upset at Luann bringing a guy home, I'd say her outrage is for-the-cameras or a cover for some other issue the two of them have.

I disagree, It doesn't matter how many film crew members are there, someone could get hurt before help gets there.

[MatildaMoody]

I disagree, It doesn't matter how many film crew members are there, someone could get hurt before help gets there.

Yeah, I wouldn't think the film crew and production would stay overnight with the women. They would just have call times for filming, right? Or do they make exceptions when the women are on trips?

[WireWrap]

Yeah, I wouldn't think the film crew and production would stay overnight with the women. They would just have call times for filming, right? Or do they make exceptions when the women are on trips?

I am sure they make accommodations for the crew either in the same rental house/hotel or close by but they do not film 24 hours a day. The crews need sleep, not just the HWs. Any footage we have seen of the HWs early morning was scheduled/planned beforehand, hence their makeup already on and/or their hair already done. I am sure the crew stuck around to film LuAnn and guest going into her bedroom and maybe they stood outside her door for a short time getting some talk/sounds from within recorded but at some point they would have left them alone. Bringing a strange guy into a house leaves the women vulnerable to theft and/or worse, not a smart move for LuAnn or any other HW that pulls that stunt. If LuAnn wants to risk her safety, so be it but not at the risk of any of the others IMO.

[KFC]

I don't know how it works on the HW shows, but on a lot of other reality shows there's someone from production watching the cast/contestants 24/7, usually in varying shifts. It could very well be that no one watches them at night, but I do know there's someone there at all times on other shows.

 

I doubt they have anyone watching them when in NYC, but when on location, it seems possible there'd be production crew assigned to watching the cast at all times.

[slitz]

Heather does NOT disapprove! LOL In other words, Heather approves or is ok with Carole dating Adam. We agree. LOL

LOL

 

I re-read your original post and had a "D'oh!" moment.  I read it wrong.  My bad!

[shoegal]

LUNASTARTRON, ON 14 MAY 2015 - 11:34 AM, SAID:

Actually, "Luann . . . asking for stuff for free . . . " is a decontextualization. Lu did not just decide to request expensive garments gratis from a friend of Carole's. Ranjana is a professional designer, and it is common practice for celebrities and notable persons - even ones who are not household names but orbit the social glitterati in New York - to wear items from labels on the red carpet/step-and-repeat circuit without paying for them. The individuals in question then return the clothes to the press office of the design house in question, and the whole process is repeated with another high-profile woman or with a magazine that wants to photograph the pieces in a fashion shoot. Press samples exist solely and specifically for this purpose; it's how designers garner attention for their work. It is perfectly acceptable for anyone, even a Real Housewife, to inquire whether a designer would be able to and/or willing to lend them a dress for an event. It is also perfectly standard practice for said designer to politely and diplomatically edit the women to those they wish to be seen in their apparel (Rodarte, for example, usually lends to specifically hipsterish/creative types). The labels do not sniff, "Michelle Obama wears our clothes"; they pleasantly inform the woman issuing the request that the samples have already been loaned out and are not presently in office.

.

ROBROY, ON 14 MAY 2015 - 1:09 PM, SAID:

In context that is not really what she did. She bought jewelry from the wife and was invited to visit/have shots with them as a couple. That's when she brought up the magazine spread. It was never determined if she wanted the dress for keeps or just as a loaner for a photo shoot. Even Alex who is no great Luann apologist said that it was SOP for the H'wives to get dresses for special appearances in return for the publicity. She said they all do it.

I think Carole knew that but also knew Luann wouldn't break the third wall by explaining the real situation. Carole- much like Ramona- is pretty crafty at wedging the other housewives between reality/show practice and for the most part none other than Beth are adept enough to explain themselves in a way that makes sense on both TV & real life.

------------

I don't think the issue was ever that borrowing a dress from a designer for a photo shoot or event is totally uncommon in the fashion industry. In this particular case, I think it was a little uncommon because LuAnn asked Naeem directly upon meeting him for the first time, usually these kind of requests are made through stylists or assistants to someone who works at the design office.

The issue with this situation specifically as it relates to Carole is that Ranjana and Naeem are very close friends of Carole. LuAnn, who just met Carole, asked for a favor (wholesale access to Rajana's jewelry) and Carole obliged. The meeting between Naeem and LuAnn was that of a 'friend of a friend' which apparently made the request a little awkward for Naeem (understandable) and therefore irritated Carole. LuAnn took advantage of the favor that Carole did for her by trying to get more out of Ranjana and Naeem. I personally do believe that was tacky.

Regarding the loaning of dresses, yes, it is something that is commonly done by designers but I have to say, I had dinner a few months ago with a fairly well known evening wear designer whose gowns are regularly worn by A list celebrities and show up on red carpets. The discussion of loaning dresses came up and while there are benefits to loaning dresses, she expressed in no uncertain terms that her preference is for people to PAY. Loaning dresses is a hassle, it not always easy to get them back in a timely manner, if at all (you always risk a Ramona with a 'ooooops, free dress'!) and they don't always come back in the condition in which they were loaned. More importantly, as a woman with a business to run, the point is to SELL the dresses, not loan them. She would not elaborate on the celebrities who borrow dresses (or the ones that return them ruined or not at all, which was the scoop I really wanted to hear) but she was very enthusiastic about naming the celebs who BUY. Which, is interesting, because Carole mentioned at the reunion that all of the Naeem Khan dresses or other clothing she wears, she bought. These ladies, and the celebs, have money. If LuAnn wanted to wear a Naeem Khan dress, she should have bought one. IMO.

Edited May 14, 2015 by shoegal

[lunastartron]

LUNASTARTRON, ON 14 MAY 2015 - 11:34 AM, SAID:

Actually, "Luann . . . asking for stuff for free . . . " is a decontextualization. Lu did not just decide to request expensive garments gratis from a friend of Carole's. Ranjana is a professional designer, and it is common practice for celebrities and notable persons - even ones who are not household names but orbit the social glitterati in New York - to wear items from labels on the red carpet/step-and-repeat circuit without paying for them. The individuals in question then return the clothes to the press office of the design house in question, and the whole process is repeated with another high-profile woman or with a magazine that wants to photograph the pieces in a fashion shoot. Press samples exist solely and specifically for this purpose; it's how designers garner attention for their work. It is perfectly acceptable for anyone, even a Real Housewife, to inquire whether a designer would be able to and/or willing to lend them a dress for an event. It is also perfectly standard practice for said designer to politely and diplomatically edit the women to those they wish to be seen in their apparel (Rodarte, for example, usually lends to specifically hipsterish/creative types). The labels do not sniff, "Michelle Obama wears our clothes"; they pleasantly inform the woman issuing the request that the samples have already been loaned out and are not presently in office.

.

ROBROY, ON 14 MAY 2015 - 1:09 PM, SAID:

In context that is not really what she did. She bought jewelry from the wife and was invited to visit/have shots with them as a couple. That's when she brought up the magazine spread. It was never determined if she wanted the dress for keeps or just as a loaner for a photo shoot. Even Alex who is no great Luann apologist said that it was SOP for the H'wives to get dresses for special appearances in return for the publicity. She said they all do it.

I think Carole knew that but also knew Luann wouldn't break the third wall by explaining the real situation. Carole- much like Ramona- is pretty crafty at wedging the other housewives between reality/show practice and for the most part none other than Beth are adept enough to explain themselves in a way that makes sense on both TV & real life.

------------

I don't think the issue was ever that borrowing a dress from a designer for a photo shoot or event is totally uncommon in the fashion industry. In this particular case, I think it was a little uncommon because LuAnn asked Naeem directly upon meeting him for the first time, usually these kind of requests are made through stylists or assistants to someone who works at the design office.

The issue with this situation specifically as it relates to Carole is that Ranjana and Naeem are very close friends of Carole. LuAnn, who just met Carole, asked for a favor (wholesale access to Rajana's jewelry) and Carole obliged. The meeting between Naeem and LuAnn was that of a 'friend of a friend' which apparently made the request a little awkward for Naeem (understandable) and therefore irritated Carole. LuAnn took advantage of the favor that Carole did for her by trying to get more out of Ranjana and Naeem. I personally do believe that was tacky.

Regarding the loaning of dresses, yes, it is something that is commonly done by designers but I have to say, I had dinner a few months ago with a fairly well known evening designer whose gowns are regularly worn by A list celebrities and show up on red carpets. The discussion of loaning dresses came up and while there are benefits to loaning dresses, she expressed in no uncertain terms that her preference is for people to PAY. Loaning dresses is a hassle, it not always easy to get them back in a timely manner, if at all (you always risk a Ramona with a 'ooooops, free dress'!) and they don't always come back in the condition in which they were loaned. More importantly, as a woman with a business to run, the point is to SELL the dresses, not loan them. She would not elaborate on the celebrities who borrow dresses (or the ones that return them ruined or not at all, which was the scoop I really wanted to hear) but she was very enthusiastic about naming the celebs who BUY. Which, is interesting, because Carole mentioned at the reunion that all of the Naeem Khan dresses or other clothing she wears, she bought. These ladies, and the celebs, have money. If LuAnn wanted to wear a Naeem Khan dress, she should have bought one. IMO.

 

While I don't doubt that designers would absolutely love for their acolytes to pay for every garment in which they appear, that's not realistic, mostly for logistical concerns rather than budgetary ones. Public figures begin wearing the samples in public (and the same samples begin circulating the magazines) in the months immediately after said clothes are initially presented on the runway. The garments don't go into mass production and/or arrive in stores until moths afterward (ie, a piece presented in February will not be available for sale until August at least).

 

As you noted, most requests are issued through market editorial assistants or styling assistants - in other words, veritable strangers.

 

Didn't LuAnn specifically contend that she wanted to wear the dress for a Life & Style spread? Not a thing illogical about that - and why would LuAnn pay money for a dress that was appearing in a photo shoot unless she wanted to take it home? Carole herself demanded a higher salary from Bravo because she said she need professional hair and makeup for filming. That's totally cool and understandable but, as you said, "these ladies have money." So if Carole wants Bravo to indirectly foot the bill for her grooming . . . I don't see anything outre about Lu adhering to standard industry practices for a photo shoot.

 

There's nothing wrong with conversationally requesting a dress for a press appearance. Naeem is free to deny the request at his will, and there's nothing wrong with that either.

 

The premise that this is not customary conduct, however, is just erroneous, though, imo. And I feel that Carole presented the entire disagreement in an initially misleading fashion and subsequently advanced the implication that it was somehow appalling of LuAnn to make a market request because of the ilk of publication in question. It's a supermarket tabloid; Naeem probably wants to edit the periodicals in which his wares appear. His prerogative, but the entire production about the request being outrageous was over the top, imo.

[shoegal]

While I don't doubt that designers would absolutely love for their acolytes to pay for every garment in which they appear, that's not realistic, mostly for logistical concerns rather than budgetary ones. Public figures begin wearing the samples in public (and the same samples begin circulating the magazines) in the months immediately after said clothes are initially presented on the runway. The garments don't go into mass production and/or arrive in stores until moths afterward (ie, a piece presented in February will not be available for sale until August at least).

As you noted, most requests are issued through market editorial assistants or styling assistants - in other words, veritable strangers.

Didn't LuAnn specifically contend that she wanted to wear the dress for a Life & Style spread? Not a thing illogical about that - and why would LuAnn pay money for a dress that was appearing in a photo shoot unless she wanted to take it home? Carole herself demanded a higher salary from Bravo because she said she need professional hair and makeup for filming. That's totally cool and understandable but, as you said, "these ladies have money." So if Carole wants Bravo to indirectly foot the bill for her grooming . . . I don't see anything outre about Lu adhering to standard industry practices for a photo shoot.

There's nothing wrong with conversationally requesting a dress for a press appearance. Naeem is free to deny the request at his will, and there's nothing wrong with that either.

The premise that this is not customary conduct, however, is just erroneous, though, imo. And I feel that Carole presented the entire disagreement in an initially misleading fashion and subsequently advanced the implication that it was somehow appalling of LuAnn to make a market request because of the ilk of publication in question. It's a supermarket tabloid; Naeem probably wants to edit the periodicals in which his wares appear. His prerogative, but the entire production about the request being outrageous was over the top, imo.

I'm familiar with the timeline of delivery between shows and stores (pre-fall, fall, resort, etc...these timelines have dominated my life for the past ten years. Trust.) I'm not suggesting that they wait for the items to be available for retail but the designers know what the dress is going to retail for when the sample is made, if not before. Arrangements for payment can be made even when wearing a sample. Those samples not only need to go out to magazines to shoot, but they also need to go to retailers to shoot for e-commerce or trunk shows, so that they can actually sell them at some point to paying customers. To take the dress out of circulation without any compensation is a headache for people who at the end of the day are trying to sell clothes.

The point was never, that I saw, that designers loaning dresses was not customary. The point was that LuAnn was an opportunistic "friend jumper" and was trying to use Carole's connection-who had already done her a favor-and it put Carole and her friends in an uncomfortable situation. Not cool.

As far as Carole asking for more money from Bravo for hair and makeup, that is presumably so that she can PAY the hair and makeup people for their services. That's the point.

Edited May 14, 2015 by shoegal

[Mozelle]

The issue with this situation specifically as it relates to Carole is that Ranjana and Naeem are very close friends of Carole. LuAnn, who just met Carole, asked for a favor (wholesale access to Rajana's jewelry) and Carole obliged. The meeting between Naeem and LuAnn was that of a 'friend of a friend' which apparently made the request a little awkward for Naeem (understandable) and therefore irritated Carole. LuAnn took advantage of the favor that Carole did for her by trying to get more out of Ranjana and Naeem. I personally do believe that was tacky.

 

 

I think it was tacky, too. Carole had already made the introduction between LuAnn and Ranjana. LuAnn was at Ranjana's show room, all set to score some beautiful, expensive jewelry at a wholesale price rather than at retail. For LuAnn to think that having a drink with Ranjana and Naeem was the opening to ask for more was presumptuous at best and, again, tacky at worst.

 

I think what was expounded on at the reunion (or maybe LuAnn said it to Carole when Carole spoke to her about it during the season) was that LuAnn presented the dress loan idea as some sort of win-win. Like, she'd get to wear the dress for this Life & Style shoot and Naeem would get coverage. The comical thing about that is LuAnn believing she would be doing Naeem a favor. His dresses are worn on red carpets, whether we're talking for the SAG Awards or the Golden Globes or the Emmys or movie premieres. Naeem would have been doing LuAnn the bigger favor if he'd agreed to loan the dress. 

[lunastartron]

The premise that LuAnn was attempting to "take the dress out of circulation" is contradictory, imo. The dress would *be* in press circulation if it was being photographed for Life & Style. And the clothing would be on the shoot for a grand total of a couple of hours before it was ferried by WorldNet or some other courier to another set. It's not that big of a headache since arranging such transfers is in the job description of press and market assistants alike. Why would Lu pay to wear a garment in a magazine spread? I brought up the point about salary because you noted that all of these ladies boast discretionary wealth. Well, yes, they do . . . but that's not really germane to pr sample loan and it's a double standard, in my view, if LuAnn is expected to pay money out of pocket to don a frock on a photo shoot just because she already boasts wealth and yet Carole is *not* expected to do the same (ie dip into her preexisting money) but is entitled to salary increases specifically to cover hair and makeup . . . Is it within the realm of probability that Naeem would want his attire highlighted in a supermarket tabloid? No. But press requests are issued and politely denied all the time. It's uncustomary for the subject of the shoot to request frocks but I see no substantive difference between the ask coming from a styling intern or from Lu. Naeem wouldn't really personally know either. Lu asked, Naeem and his team passed, end of story. To me, Carole's response was just as arbitrary and disproportionate as Lu deciding that, for some reason, Carol couldn't date a chef in her employ.

[shoegal]

The premise that LuAnn was attempting to "take the dress out of circulation" is contradictory, imo. The dress would *be* in press circulation if it was being photographed for Life & Style. And the clothing would be on the shoot for a grand total of a couple of hours before it was ferried by WorldNet or some other courier to another set. It's not that big of a headache since arranging such transfers is in the job description of press and market assistants alike. Why would Lu pay to wear a garment in a magazine spread? I brought up the point about salary because you noted that all of these ladies boast discretionary wealth. Well, yes, they do . . . but that's not really germane to pr sample loan and it's a double standard, in my view, if LuAnn is expected to pay money out of pocket to don a frock on a photo shoot just because she already boasts wealth and yet Carole is *not* expected to do the same (ie dip into her preexisting money) but is entitled to salary increases specifically to cover hair and makeup . . . Is it within the realm of probability that Naeem would want his attire highlighted in a supermarket tabloid? No. But press requests are issued and politely denied all the time. It's uncustomary for the subject of the shoot to request frocks but I see no substantive difference between the ask coming from a styling intern or from Lu. Naeem wouldn't really personally know either. Lu asked, Naeem and his team passed, end of story. To me, Carole's response was just as arbitrary and disproportionate as Lu deciding that, for some reason, Carol couldn't date a chef in her employ.

The point of the circulation is that the dress (or dresses) have places to be, places that actually result in sales. I'm sure Life & Style had a selection of dresses for LuAnn to chose from, who shows up to a Life & Style photo shoot, or any photo shoot, with their own gowns? Those things would be set up by stylists and assistants, not LuAnn. I believe what LuAnn said was "if ever you would want me to wear one of your gowns" ...and the shoot was mentioned as a possibility at some point (I believe at the reunion, it's not clear if it was part of her request or that the request was specifically for the photo shoot). My point is that if ever LuAnn wanted to wear one of Naeem's dresses, she should pull out the AmEx. Not try and trade a favor for a bigger favor with people she just met.

Regarding the request, yes, Naeem is free to deny and it seems he did, but it's customary for these requests to be made through channels, not putting the designer on the spot when you first meet him (or her). That's why Carole was annoyed, because it put her friend in an awkward situation when LuAnn was only in Naeem's presence out of a favor from Carole.

Regarding the salary, if LuAnn wants to try and negotiate a higher salary from Bravo so that she can buy Naeem Khan dresses to wear I say go for it! Negotiating for a higher salary is quite different from what we are discussing.

Edited May 14, 2015 by shoegal

[MatildaMoody]

The premise that LuAnn was attempting to "take the dress out of circulation" is contradictory, imo. The dress would *be* in press circulation if it was being photographed for Life & Style. And the clothing would be on the shoot for a grand total of a couple of hours before it was ferried by WorldNet or some other courier to another set. It's not that big of a headache since arranging such transfers is in the job description of press and market assistants alike. Why would Lu pay to wear a garment in a magazine spread? I brought up the point about salary because you noted that all of these ladies boast discretionary wealth. Well, yes, they do . . . but that's not really germane to pr sample loan and it's a double standard, in my view, if LuAnn is expected to pay money out of pocket to don a frock on a photo shoot just because she already boasts wealth and yet Carole is *not* expected to do the same (ie dip into her preexisting money) but is entitled to salary increases specifically to cover hair and makeup . . . Is it within the realm of probability that Naeem would want his attire highlighted in a supermarket tabloid? No. But press requests are issued and politely denied all the time. It's uncustomary for the subject of the shoot to request frocks but I see no substantive difference between the ask coming from a styling intern or from Lu. Naeem wouldn't really personally know either. Lu asked, Naeem and his team passed, end of story. To me, Carole's response was just as arbitrary and disproportionate as Lu deciding that, for some reason, Carol couldn't date a chef in her employ.

 

Just a minor point, but all of the women asked for a salary increase for hair and makeup, not just Carole. It was part of all of their salary negotiations and it was speculated that Lu's salary demands also played into why she was demoted to Friend of.

 

As for the borrowing of the dress, I also thought that was tacky. She friend jumped when that friend had already delivered a favor. For me, it was the timing of the ask more than anything else. The couple had already made an allowance for the jewelry. You would think she could have been happy with that and at least done something nice for them before asking for another favor.

 

I get that it is just something that even d-list celebrities do, but it seems like there is also a protocol involved. The designer would have felt  put on the spot when declining Luann directly versus declining to a marketing assistant. The whole thing was just awkward and poorly handled on Luann's part. 

 

ETA: The scenario reminded me of that surfing incident between Luann and Bethenny. Bethenny was planing to take surfing lessons, Luann invited herself to the outing, and because she felt she was invited, she believed Bethenny should pay. Not the same situation, granted, but again it is an example of Luann not really reading the confines of the interaction correctly.

Edited May 14, 2015 by MatildaMoody

[lunastartron]

Just to be clear, I don't think it was inherently wrong for Lu, Carole, or any of the women to negotiate salary increases for hair and makeup; my point was that it's unfair, imo, to suggest that Lu needs to pay for every piece of clothing she wears to a step-and-repeat or to a shoot just because she has wealth discrete from her participation in the show, especially when that would be counter to customary practice. As has been noted, they all have discretionary funding. I will say that I heartily disagree about the circulation issue being a huge imposition and leave it at that - press samples exist for the reason to circulate, both to periodicals and to sales. If Naeem doesn't feel L & S has a readership with the income level that would yield sales, he doesn't have to lend to such publications, but, to me, a request for such a publication is not in and of itself some affront . . . As for the protocol, I do sort of understand how a face-to-face request would be awkward and why an e-mail ask and decline would be more comfortable for everyone involved, but I personally just don't think it's that big of an ordeal. Lu asks, Naeem chuckles and demures by noting that he'd have to check if there were sample scheduling conflicts, and everyone moves on. This is not to say that the Countess isn't perfectly capable of committing faux pas, but, relatively and generally, this one wasn't pointedly egregious. And although Lu trying to save face by acting like the transaction would be equally beneficial to Naeem was wince-worthy, I still think the FLOTUS/Lu Life & Style dichotomy was a rude and deliberate putdown.

[biakbiak]

Why I think that Carole was making a mountain out of a molehill is that Ranjana didn't have an issue with it, she even stated that it came up naturally when they were hanging out and that LuAnn looked amazing in Naseem's dresses.

[shoegal]

How is requesting a salary increase to pay for things at odds with suggesting that if you have the money, you should pay for things? If Carole was asking for free hair and make up for shooting, I'd be saying she should be paying. This does not compute.

Why I think that Carole was making a mountain out of a molehill is that Ranjana didn't have an issue with it, she even stated that it came up naturally when they were hanging out and that LuAnn looked amazing in Naseem's dresses.

I don't believe LuAnn ever wore one of Naeem's dresses because he didn't lend to her.

[biakbiak]

I don't believe LuAnn ever wore one of Naeem's dresses because he didn't lend to her.

 

I believe Rajana stated that when they were hanging out that she also tried some of the dresses and she specifically stated that LuAnn looked good in his dresses so she must have worn them at some point. Neither LuAnn or Rajana seemed to be upset about the situation so I don't understand why Carole had to make a deal of it.

[shoegal]

I believe Rajana stated that when they were hanging out that she also tried some of the dresses and she specifically stated that LuAnn looked good in his dresses so she must have worn them at some point. Neither LuAnn or Rajana seemed to be upset about the situation so I don't understand why Carole had to make a deal of it.

I don't believe there was ever a mention that LuAnn tried on dresses, I believe what Ranjana said is that LuAnn *would* look good in his dresses.

Maybe Naeem was annoyed, he was the one asked, not Ranjana. Or maybe Carole was annoyed because LuAnn was asking favors of her friends when she was only there because LuAnn asked Carole for a favor. Maybe she felt used or taken advantage of by LuAnn, no matter what Naeem thought.

Edited May 14, 2015 by shoegal

[biakbiak]

Ranjana was there when she asked Nasem and she never mentioned that he was upset or bothered by it and again said it came up naturally when they were doing shots. Carole based her outrage on the conversation she had with Ranjana not just talking heads but during the actual conversation so much to the point that Rajana appeared to be almost defending LuAnn to Carole.

[shoegal]

Carole still has a right to be upset or offended whether or Naeem or Ranjana were bothered. LuAnn asked for a favor from Carole, access to her friends, and then immediately used that access to try and gain another favor. Carole has a right to think that's rude IMO, and it put her friends in a position of having to either do a favor for someone they just met, or say no to a friend of a friend. That's awkward and unnecessary.

I thought Ranjana was uncomfortable telling Carole what happened, and she obviously brought it up to Carole for a reason. Of course Ranjana is not going to trash LuAnn on camera, thats not good PR.

Edited May 14, 2015 by shoegal

[biakbiak]

I guess we will just have to agree to disagree because if the three adults who were actually present for the conversation had no issue and the matter only concerned them, than Carole doesn't have a reason to be upset.

[shoegal]

Well, then we agree to disagree.

[motorcitymom65]

I guess we will just have to agree to disagree because if the three adults who were actually present for the conversation had no issue and the matter only concerned them, than Carole doesn't have a reason to be upset.

I saw the conversation very differently. I thought that when Ranjana was telling the story to Carole that she seemed uncomfortable with the request, although very gracious. Carole knows them very well and said that they don't usually do this. It seemed like Carole was apologetic about her new friend asking for such a thing and that Ranjana was trying to reassure her that it wasn't a big deal to save Carole from feeling like she had put them in a bad position. 

[MatildaMoody]

I saw the conversation very differently. I thought that when Ranjana was telling the story to Carole that she seemed uncomfortable with the request, although very gracious. Carole knows them very well and said that they don't usually do this. It seemed like Carole was apologetic about her new friend asking for such a thing and that Ranjana was trying to reassure her that it wasn't a big deal to save Carole from feeling like she had put them in a bad position. 

That's how I remember it as well. I think Carole was annoyed and possibly offended that Luann would put her friends in an awkward position after she had already done Luann a favor involving those friends.

 

If Luann had simply emailed or had an assistant email the way these things normally happen, I doubt Ranjana would have even brought it up to Carole in the first place. It would have been business as usual. But because Luann was asking directly, it became more awkward because they were basically put on the spot.

[lunastartron]

Because LuAnn was not asking for ownership or services for free that aren't already traditionally provided gratis. She was not requesting Naeem just give a dress to her to own, nor, if she actually wanted to wear the garment specifically for the L and S shoot, was she asking for anything that doesn't normally transpire. It was a press request in that context, pure and simple. The methodology of the request/circumventing press channels? Unconventional. The purpose? Not so much. If LuAnn did indeed intend to keep the sample for herself, yes, that would be inappropriate beyond belief and basically constitute theft. But there was no evidence to suggest that was what she had in mind. So, provided that she did only want to include the dress in options for the shoot, then, yes, requiring her to pay money for a sample that she meant to return would be quite odd.

[Mozelle]

LuAnn fancies herself the doyenne of etiquette. I mean, she had the book on etiquette ghost written for her and everything. What seems to be the issue is that LuAnn expects protocol and etiquette from everyone but herself.

 

I don't buy that she was taking some unconventional, circuitous route to PR a dress for a shoot. I think that LuAnn simply wanted to wear a Naeem Khan dress without having to pay for one. She was hoping to start a relationship where he'd loan her dresses. There was that whole kerfuffle some seasons back where Ramona was upset with LuAnn about trying to deal with a designer who Ramona exclusively deals with. LuAnn knows what she's doing, and what she typically does is play the "That's so gauche" routine with everyone all the while behaving in a gauche manner as well.

[Rhetorica]

LuAnn, also, for nearly for two years never paid for drinks or coffee. Remember when she met Alex to scold her and then left her with the bill? She did the same thing when she first met the newbies. I think Carol even mentioned that they had to pick up her tab. She's a smart and thrifty lady!

[HunterHunted]

LuAnn knows that there is a typical procedure for asking for dresses. If you don't have a personal relationship with the designer, you go through their PR people (hello Sonja!). She really hoped that she could make Naeem uncomfortable enough to say yes even though she had no preexisting relationship.

As to the "she's not from Europe; she's from Connecticut" comment, LuAnn's comments on WWHL tells me that she fancies herself European by proxy. Her comments were of the "I married a European and lived in Europe for a long time." Those types of comments make me think that she thinks she is superior to the other women because of her time in Europe.

[biakbiak]

As to the "she's not from Europe; she's from Connecticut" comment, LuAnn's comments on WWHL tells me that she fancies herself European by proxy. Her comments were of the "I married a European and lived in Europe for a long time."

 

Those things are true about her and she wasn't even the one who called herself European and for that matter neither did Bethanny, just that it was a European look.

[Mozelle]

But that Bethenny was using it as a compliment says to me that she knew LuAnn would wholeheartedly embrace it precisely because LuAnn fancies herself European-esque. 

[Cherrio]

LuAnn, also, for nearly for two years never paid for drinks or coffee. Remember when she met Alex to scold her and then left her with the bill? She did the same thing when she first met the newbies. I think Carol even mentioned that they had to pick up her tab. She's a smart and thrifty lady!

Luann also refused to donate her obnoxious song for the goodie bag at Jill's charity event. Her exact words were "well we can't give it away" when Jill asked about where the cd's were.

I think that showed her true colors clearly.     

[Celia Rubenstein]

Luann also refused to donate her obnoxious song for the goodie bag at Jill's charity event. Her exact words were "well we can't give it away" when Jill asked about where the cd's were.

I think that showed her true colors clearly.    

 

But Luann was right .... it turned out that she actually couldn't give her CDs away.  She probably has crates of them stashed somewhere.  

 

So whatever happened to her fabulous career as a recording artist anyway? Did she run out of self-important stuck-up topics to sing about?