S03.E07: Chapter Forty-Two: The Man In Black

[The Crazed Spruce]

Quote

Fearful that he will be caught, Archie hits the road and ends up at a farm where he meets Laurie Lake; Alice takes extreme measures to ensure Betty's safety from the Gargoyle King; Betty finds herself up against a formidable foe from her past.

[WhosThatGirl]

And here we are..

 

I still hate the g and g story but I think that may be taking a pause this episode so

I’m excited for this episode.

 

A few thoughts before the episode starts:

 

I go back and forth on if Jughead is going on this trip with Archie for the right reasons or if it’s part of the game quest. I hope it’s the former. This is why I wish Jughead had never played the game because if I’m being honest the show is probably putting Jugheads g and g story on hold for this episode and will probably pick it up in a future episode, but it’s odd that’s the left a ton of unanswered messages for Betty and is just like “I love you” and all that. I mean it shows that Bughead is a solid foundation I guess. But it’s odd, I agree. My guess is what I said in this episode the g and g game is on pause, at least on Jugheads end. I don’t really care about Archie and the farm girl. But it’s thing like this that make me not understand why people think Archie would be any different in a relationship with Betty. He jumps quickly. 

 

I feel like Veronica’s story is going to be really boring.

 

I’m on the fence about Betty at SOQM. On one hand it would have been an interesting story if it wasn’t so tied up in g and g. Despite what I’ve read online, I’ve never thought Alice was a good mother(I’ve read people  saying season 2 and I start laughing because she was?) so I always suspected she would throw Betty in there. What I don’t like is the fact that more than likely the show will come up with some roundabout way to have Alice be forgiven for this and that kind of sucks.  I mean I’m not excited to see betty be tortured and all that but it’s an interesting story, kind of. If it wasn’t even tied up in this seasons.

 

Anyways on with the show..

 

 obviously the scene where Jughead is calling Betty  via a pay phone implies that Jughead has probably lost the battery on his cell phone but in my canon head, my guess is FP didn’t try once to check up on him and we’re supposed to believe he was oh so worried about him last episode he was climbing though bettys window.. sure, sure. If nothing comes from his creepy creep behavior I’m going to be really pissed off. Seriously, I get that some people love that this show does homages with no real reason but sometimes it’s dumb. They wanted a scream homage but we have to start calling spades a spade, sometimes it’s stupid. Or maybe I just will.

 

Anyways.. aw, best friends road tripping. I’m going to believe Jughead is doing it for the right reasons. But also terrible fake names, Jughead. Cal and Biff.I do love that everyone thought this farm was going to be connected to the cult farm.

 

Also Archie making bad decisions about staying at the farm. And Jughead being smart. I miss this Jughead. 

 

Also again why do people ship Archie with anyone? He’s already up on this Laurie Lake girl.  Like really? 

 

Also as, Archie is already messing up the road trip plans. 

 

Ugh. I was wrong. The stupid g and g game has seeped into this plot too. Can we one week where Jughead isn’t obsessed with it? 

 

Also.. why do Jughead and Archie’s plots when they do these three episode things involve an old wise person telling them a tale of what the season about. I mean.. it pretty leads nowhere but it happened last season and now this season.

 

Hey look archie is kissing Laurie lake. Oh he stopped! That was surprising. It actually was. And Archie still loves Veronica. But Archie stop telling people things! Archie giving out his real name, super smart. But also.. classic Archie.  

 

And Jughead taking all these pictures of the g and g king and the symbols. I’m confused. Is he now realizing the game is everywhere? Didn’t he say it was Riverdale connected? Also don’t start playing the game with these random teenagers. But also Hiram controls this town too? 

 

And Laurie Lake hits Archie over the head and knocks him out. Again. This is such a classic Archie thing, I found myself laughing. This is archie cluelessness of season 1 and sometimes season 2. Also after those kids talking to Jughead about Hiram and all that, I wondered if Laurie lake was doing this for a reason connected to Hiram.

 

And then Hiram pulled up in his shiny black car. And that’s why you don’t give people your real name when you’re on the run, Archie.

 

And.. huh? Archie’s like lets fight. What?!? Also good point that if Archie killed Hiram, Veronica would never forgive him or at least not look at him the same.  

 

Also now they’re going to see Jugheads mom. Which we will see next week.

 

 Also Veronica’s story. I expected the to be number two in this three episode story and I expect to be bored. I don’t give a damn about the speakeasy. Also I know some people want Veronica to reunite with her parents but I don’t, so I hope she doesn’t.

 

Also yay I’m glad she’s moving out.. finally. But it may be a little too late, considering. Also I’m glad she told Hermione off and Hermione, what’s the point of her anymore?

 

And she’s sleeping at the speakeasy.

 

Also yes Veronica, your business is going downhill because it’s a speakeasy.. for teenagers. So.. yeah.. but now she’s being in Elio.

 

Also side note, as someone who claims to be besties with Betty, has even tried to call her?

 

Okay I’m feeling totally wrong about all of veroncias story. At least thurs far, she’s speaking the truth when Hiram’s talking about bringing criminals all around her business and him being one to talk.

 

But also.. I hope she doesn’t go back to her parents. I don’t need to see bitch Veronica from the comics. And her parents are bad people.  

Also sorry but imho we already have enough terrible people on this show that we are supposed to love to hate, we don’t need more. And those people again imho have worn out their welcomes more often than not here.

 

Is Reggie a business partner in the speakeasy? He seems to be. Also I love Veronica trying to do stuff, but seriously putting the deed to her business? 

 

But then again I should have suspected she would use things from her family and I don’t know how I feel about that. I know people think she should reunite with her parents but wasn’t the whole point of this season supposed to be Veronica doing things better than her father and without needing him? I know she needed to do this and the information her father gave her  to not lose everything, but what’s the point of this bow? This negates all of that. I’m not a fan. 

 

Also I’m glad Pop wasn’t a fan.  And I love his advice. Also Veronica, your dad is a bad person. I’m glad pop gave her the information about Sheriff Minitos body. 

 

But again Veronica doing everything her father said to do really negates everything she has worked for and it’s kind of lame. But that’s just how I feel.

 

The Betty stuff at SOQM. Also Ethel is her roommate. I did love all her voiceovers about everything going on. Also love that Ethel tried to make it seem like Jughead is in love with her because of their 1 second kiss, and Betty already knew, love the “this psycho bitch”. 

 

I like that Hiram is connected to all the three stories this episode. He gives money to the SOQM. 

 

But also is Hiram the g and g king? They are really shoving it down that he more than likely is.

 

Also are they going to redeem Ethel or is she evil now just to be evil forever?

 

Betty starting a fight with Ethel to get into the medical place was pretty great and faking a seizure. Which.. how was she able to do that and make it believable? That was pretty believable for faking it or she’s able to do it on command? 

 

But also great plan Betty, now they’re going to dose you up with more meds at some point. I mean... she got her medical file but still..

 

And obviously SOQM has fixed their tunnels after Cheryl escaped. 

 

Also that last scene was terrible. Now Betty is screwed up too and obsessed with the king.  Great job, Alice. 

[SeanC]

I have no earthly idea where all this is going, but this season's main plot is OTT in the best way.

[WhosThatGirl]

3 minutes ago, SeanC said:

I have no earthly idea where all this is going, but this season's main plot is OTT in the best way.

I’m just curious to see how Alice reacts to seeing Betty mumbling about seeing the king everywhere. Seriously. She’s hardly making coherent sane sentences, at least before Alice sent her there she was talking normal. 

So Hiram is definitely involved in the game right? 

Edited December 6, 2018 by WhosThatGirl

[Advance35]

Archie Andrews is a cheater at heart.  Veronica, he is not worth everything your giving up.   The boy is your High School studhorse and that should be all.  Leaving the Pembrook  to sleep in Pop's basement?  Tsk Tsk Tsk.  Comic Book Veronica would NEVER.

Hiram is a wonderful character (IMO) but I wonder what would happen to the Veronica character if Archie had murdered Hiram.  I hope we don't find out anytime soon, but I question whether Veronica is going to take much joy out of Hiram's fall.

While on the subject, I love Hiram Lodge, the man is monstrous but for some reason the character entertains me to no end.   I NEED his super villain origin story.  He lays waste to entire towns and is connected to every villainous character on the canvas.  And for all that, I truly believe he loves his daughter.  His scene with Veronica at Pops, after she moved out was awesome.  For all his murderous intent towards Archie, I believe he wants the best for his daughter.  LOL He's crazy but he does have layers.  There just all dark layers.  The scene in Pops was also the first time I feel like I was shown Veronica's conflict and the fact that she actually misses her family.   She looked like she really wanted to reach out to her Father but she was still angry.

Cracked up when Hiram said "Are you angry about something."  For Hiram, his destruction of Archie is such a non-issue.  Archie, Jughead, The Coopers, FP, Sierra, Tom, Break them, play with them, as far as Hiram's concerned, that's what their there for.  He seems genuinely perplexed that Veronica is emotionally invested in the well being of anyone who isn't a Lodge.

Having said that, she's clearly got quite a bit of Hiram in her.  Not just with the portrait but her saying "How you win doesn't matter, as long as your the last woman standing."  The delivery was very natural for Veronica.  As good as she tries to be, I still maintain her destiny is more villainous then heroine.

I was not going to let myself get attached and I still haven't but dare I say, there was chemistry between Reggie and Veronica.  REALLY good chemistry.  I also find it interesting, how he calls her "Ronnie."  I don't think any other character other then Archie ever has.   They make a good team.  I think what i like about them is that Reggie appears to genuinely LIKE Veronica.  Sometimes a lot of characters seem to tolerate her (not "tolerate" as in deep down dislike, more that they just don't get her)  whereas this season Reggie seems to get Veronica, maybe 40% of the time but seems to care about her even when she makes him roll his eyes.

I don't think Hiram is the Gargoyle King.  I can't tell who is.

[WhosThatGirl]

Eh. I don’t want Veronica and Reggie but I’m not sure how I feel about Varchie right now. I do agree Archie is a cheater or jumper from girls to girls. I always question why people want that for Betty but I digress. But I don’t want Veronica back with her parents. I don’t like Hiram and Hermione does nothing. Except says she does things. 

And I don’t want comic book bitch Veronica. We don’t need it. At least I don’t think so.

Hiram May not be the king be he’s definitely a part of it.

Also I feel super sad for Betty. That made me really sad that they seem to have made her insane. Unless she’s faking but I don’t think so. Whatever that candy is it drugged her. And that makes me sad.

Edited December 6, 2018 by WhosThatGirl

[SeanC]

12 minutes ago, Advance35 said:

I was not going to let myself get attached and I still haven't but dare I say, there was chemistry between Reggie and Veronica.  REALLY good chemistry.

Camila and Charles' off-screen relationship translates onscreen.

[WhosThatGirl]

Just now, Sonoma said:

I've been wanting Veronica to be more villainous and paired up with Reggie so, co-sign. I think her breaking bad and then finding her way back would be a much more interesting character arc for her than the current one. 

I’ll be alone in not wanting that at all. But it’s fine. I’m alone with almost everything I want for this season.

Also I don’t really want Reggie and veronica either.

[Dee]

This show needs to be cancelled.

[RandomWatcher]

No mentions on how that was the Smallville Kent farm?

[tennisgurl]

So, its nice to know that Riverdale isnt the only totally insane town around, its every town in this shows universe. Because of course Archie and Jughead would stumble across some dead town that was turned into a ghost town by funnily named drugs and a tabletop game. I thought that it would turn out the farm girls were killing people and the bodies were in the house, Texas Chainsaw style, but of course, its Hiram again. 

They really are tying everything together now, with Hiram as the evil Kevin Bacon connecting them all. Blossoms, the creepy sisters, the Lodges, everything. Honestly, its so crazy, that its kind of come around and is becoming awesome again. 

Poor Betty, that Nancy Drew act was certainly going to cause problems for her at some point, and now shes been drugged, and brainwashed by the cult, who are apparently everyone around the whole freaking tri state area. Great parenting there, Alice! 

I like Veronica and Reggie as friends/partners in crime. Now, could someone deal with Reggie's abusive dad?

[Advance35]

Quote

Camila and Charles' off-screen relationship translates onscreen.

I always hear the opposite.  When people are seeing each other off-camera, they usually have NO chemistry on-camera.  Who can predict I guess.

Quote

I've been wanting Veronica to be more villainous and paired up with Reggie so, co-sign. I think her breaking bad and then finding her way back would be a much more interesting character arc for her than the current one. 

I liked the chemistry between Reggie and Veronica but I questioned whether he was too "simple" for Veronica.  He'll never warrant a think tank but he did cotton to what Elio was up to and he's proactive, almost foolishly so, he was perfectly willing to go over there and throw Elio out on Veronica's say so.  I don't even need a redemption story per se.  She can just have a falling out and loathe a majority of other characters hence forth and forevermore.    She can have her own quiet moments of pathos.

Quote

Eh. I don’t want Veronica and Reggie but I’m not sure how I feel about Varchie right now. I do agree Archie is a cheater or jumper from girls to girls. I always question why people want that for Betty but I digress. But I don’t want Veronica back with her parents. I don’t like Hiram and Hermione does nothing. Except says she does things. 

The girl is sleeping in the basement of a diner.  She has nobody in her life other then her parents, nobody she can turn too anyway.  

For all her high end knowledge, I think this episode proved to me that Veronica on her own is very vulnerable.  If Hiram didn't give her distant protection, I think she would have found herself on the wrong side of Penny Peapody, the Ghoulies or an Elio like figure.  

Edited December 6, 2018 by Advance35

[notcreative enough]

Get off your soapbox Pops you sold your diner to Hiram giving him a foothold in the town. Trying to guilt Veronica by saying it's been I his family and criminal free. Man shut you hypocrite.

Lol Betty did you really think those shady ass nuns would get rid of Cheryl's way of escaping. Weren't they chasing her when Veronica helped her escape.

Oh Archie your kiss the first girl that was moderately nice to you and tell her your real identity. Dumb dumb Archie never change.

[WhosThatGirl]

11 minutes ago, Advance35 said:

I always hear the opposite.  When people are seeing each other off-camera, they usually have NO chemistry on-camera.  Who can predict I guess.

I liked the chemistry between Reggie and Veronica but I questioned whether he was too "simple" for Veronica.  He'll never warrant a think tank but he did cotton to what Elio was up to and he's proactive, almost foolishly so, he was perfectly willing to go over there and throw Elio out on Veronica's say so.  I don't even need a redemption story per se.  She can just have a falling out and loathe a majority of other characters hence forth and forevermore.    She can have her own quiet moments of pathos.

The girl is sleeping in the basement of a diner.  She has nobody in her life other then her parents, nobody she can turn too anyway.  

For all her high end knowledge, I think this episode proved to me that Veronica on her own is very vulnerable.  If Hiram didn't give her distant protection, I think she would have found herself on the wrong side of Penny Peapody, the Ghoulies or an Elio like figure.  

 

Eh. I just don’t think we need bitch Veronica and she does have friends. When she chooses them. We will see I guess but I won’t be a fan. Especially with us as viewers seeing that Hiram is all that bad. Why should we want Veronica to be like that too?

Again I’ll be alone in this.

Also for people who say couples rarely have chemistry on screen, I think lili and Cole still have good chemistry on screen. And I guess camailla and Melton do but then again im just not interested in that relationship.

Again I’m all by myself in this boat.

And again I thought maybe Betty was faking at the end of the episode but I sadly don’t think she is. I think if she was, we would have gotten a voice over POV like we had at first. Unless the show is trying to fake us out. I don’t think they are. Again I say, great mothering skills Alice.

Edited December 6, 2018 by WhosThatGirl

[kissedbyarose]

I probably say this everytime I come out of lurking but problematic teen shows with inane storylines and pretty pretty people seem to be my krpytonite. I watched every season of Pretty Little Liars and after swearing I was done with this show at the end of last season, I find myself still interested in watching this.

 

I had a really long winded post about this episode that got lost and I don’t feel like typing it all up again but I will say that watching Betty being force fed drugs was pretty fucked up. Also Veronica suddenly thinking that her father may not be too bad is the kind of writing that makes me want to sit in the writing room one good time just to see what kind of drugs these writers are really on. 

 

Then again, that might how Betty will forgive Alice for throwing her into that known hell-hole. These parents are awful. 

 

PS. I kinda like Archie. Wrong. He’s my favorite character. Maybe we need a UO thread lol. 

Edited December 6, 2018 by kissedbyarose

[WhosThatGirl]

The parents are really truly bad. And I get that’s the point but sometimes it really is a lot.

I really hope Betty doesn’t forgive Alice but knowing this show, she’s going to. I can’t wait to see what backwards way they have for that. Will Alice sing a song again? 

And also love Veronica’s shocked face that it’s possible her dad had something to do with that sheriffs death. Like she’s just now realizing he kills people. Or has them killed. Isn’t she aware that he was somewhat behind Jugheads almost death last year? Pretty sure he told Archie Betty and Veronica all about his phone call with Hiram right before he got beat up.

And speaking of characters, were supposed to hate Ethel right? Because that’s the vibe I’ve been getting for a while. At least since last season. I thought for sure in this episode there would be some sort of bait and switch regarding her and Betty, like maddog did for Archie back in juive, but no.. they really don’t seem to like her anymore. So on that note.. I’m not really sure how long she can stay on this show because she’s done quite a lot to just be a hated character. I fully expect her death at some point this season. Joaquin died and people still would have liked him e en if he stabbed Archie. They could have fixed that. Hell they killed Midge last season and she did nothing wrong! Except for cheat one moose but still..

I don’t really like Archie. This episode kind of highlighted why. He’s more than kind of an idiot. Jughead wasn’t giving out your real names for a reason. And Jughead is right, Archie could never survive being on the run on his own.

Edited December 6, 2018 by WhosThatGirl

[HunterHunted]

16 hours ago, notcreative enough said:

Get off your soapbox Pops you sold your diner to Hiram giving him a foothold in the town. Trying to guilt Veronica by saying it's been I his family and criminal free. Man shut you hypocrite.

Wasn't Hiram hosting his crime syndicate meeting the room that would become the speakeasy.

I would enjoy Hiram as a villain if he wasn't ALWAYS punching down. Archie is an idiot. He is too dumb to thwart any of Hiram's schemes. However, Veronica, Betty, and Jughead are not. When Hiram comes for Archie, the others band together to try to rescue Archie. If he would simply leave Archie alone, he'd probably get away with way more shenanigans. Archie is the same idiot who was conned into starting a teen militia group where his face was the only one not obscured. Archie is no threat not even in his affections for Veronica. Veronica did a very swift 180 when Hiram told Veronica about Elio's plans. And she was ready to forgive Hiram until Pop's reminded her how deadly Hiram can be. Coming for Archie is like kicking a puppy or stealing candy from a baby. You can do it, but should you do It? If Hiram truly had a worthy opponent, he might be worth watching. Right now, he's a one note mustache twirler.

Also if Veronica really wants to get at Hiram, she needs to lock him out of her life. No more running to him when he wants something. No more checking in with Hermione. When she sees them, she needs to call them Mr. and Mrs. Lodge. And finally she only spends family time with her found family.

The irony of Hiram trying to keep Veronica and Archie apart is that Archie is the type of idiot that Veronica would ghost during freshman year in college. There was no reason to try to hasten the break up. It was going to be a done deal anyway.

Edited December 6, 2018 by HunterHunted

[Chaos Theory]

The most interesting thing about this episode is that it admits that while Betty takes down serial killers Archie can’t go five minutes without getting kidnapped....and then he makes an unfortunate decision to stop at a really obvious trap and instead of moving on really fast like Jughead wants to he goes and gets himself kidnapped.   

End yeah I can’t help but think Veronica would get bored with Archie once Hiram’s never ending vendetta actually ended. He is an idiot pretty  boy she would get bored of quick. 

Edited December 6, 2018 by Chaos Theory

[Snapdragon]

So I've been enjoying the campy creepiness of the Gargoyle King plot but the Sisters being involved might be too much for me.  I mean, both Polly and Cheryl recently stayed there and neither of them noticed the whole Gargoyle King thing?  Or did the Sisters just start "playing the game"?  Also, I need Ethel to die this season because I straight up cannot with that character anymore.  And sweet, dumb Archie.  Don't give your name and your archenemy's name to a person you just met.  That was just stupid.  (Although, coming up with "Biff" as a fake name was pretty stupid as well, so it's not really out of character for him)

[SourK]

Okay, I get it. Archie will only go along with stupid names if he's the one who thought of them. The minute someone else comes up with one, he's like, "No, my name's Archie Andrews. I'm from Riverdale and my greatest enemy is Hiram Lodge. That's who I'm hiding out from please don't tell anyone."

I judged Jughead last week for leaving town with Archie even though he couldn't check in with Betty and make sure she was cool, but this week I've been convinced of his wisdom. Archie would literally be dead if he didn't have someone to watch him, and, of the two, Betty's probably the safer one to leave alone. Good call.

As for Ethel... I'm very uncomfortable with what the show's doing with Ethel. I try to stay out of fandom, but I'm aware that there's some antagonism between the actors and a group of young-ish/teenage fans who have a crush on Cole Sprouse and don't know how to express it without making it weird or being hostile to his real-life girlfriend. And, to me, what's happening with Ethel feels like a way of striking back at those fans through the show, by creating a "loser" character and letting Betty verbally kick her around and brag about how Sprouse's character's in love with her and not with them. It seems petty to me, especially when the fans in question are mostly teens and teens are still learning how to interact with the world. A group of adults they look up to doesn't need to mock them on their favourite show.

16 hours ago, Advance35 said:

Cracked up when Hiram said "Are you angry about something."  For Hiram, his destruction of Archie is such a non-issue.  Archie, Jughead, The Coopers, FP, Sierra, Tom, Break them, play with them, as far as Hiram's concerned, that's what their there for.  He seems genuinely perplexed that Veronica is emotionally invested in the well being of anyone who isn't a Lodge.

Having said that, she's clearly got quite a bit of Hiram in her.  Not just with the portrait but her saying "How you win doesn't matter, as long as your the last woman standing."  The delivery was very natural for Veronica.  As good as she tries to be, I still maintain her destiny is more villainous then heroine.

I also thought that was funny.

I have conflicted feelings about the Lodges because I think, in real life, when you have a Problematic Dad, it really is quite difficult to make a clean break and not get sucked back into his control, so it makes sense to me that Veronica keeps going back to him and keeps letting him manipulate her. At the same time, it's not dramatizes super well on the show, so it seems like her choices are as random as anyone else's.

Also... I get that the real reason no one drinks alcohol in Veronica's bar is because this is a CW show and there's probably some kind of rule about it, but... you make a really big deal out of not serving alcohol in your night club for minors, but you host a gambling night in there instead? And you are a minor? And you gamble at the gambling night.... I just.

[HeatLifer]

23 minutes ago, SourK said:

It seems petty to me, especially when the fans in question are mostly teens and teens are still learning how to interact with the world. A group of adults they look up to doesn't need to mock them on their favourite show.

I don’t know if that’s what’s actually happening, as in I don’t think they’re mocking people who don’t want Lili with Cole. I think they’re making light of the ridiculousness of “ships” in general and the whole “Brangelina” combined-names generation. Which is...fine. It’s their way of being meta, same way they use “endgame,” which is very much an online fandom terminology.  I think a good lesson for not just young teens, but everyone, is it’s never super positive to attach yourself so much to fictional ships or even real-life actor couples that causes you to lash out in a not-so-positive manner.

[WhosThatGirl]

Eh. I still stand by that show likes Bughead and would hope for them to be endgame, but I agree I don’t think they were trying to shame fans with Bettys comments abor Ethel.

That said, considering how Lili reacted to the fans losing their mind over th 1 second Jughead kiss and threats to SP, kind of odd they would have her make certain comments. I wonder how Lili felt about that. She made a tweet telling fans to stop pretty much saying things that Betty in vo was saying. Kind of. And that’s what I don’t really get. 

Even back in season two when Toni and Jughead kissed and fans went off, Lili again called fans out and the show even then didn’t have betty act or say negative things about or towards Toni. And that was more of an issue for Bughead than the non second kiss Jughead had with Ethel. I mean maybe because they barley addressed the Toni and Jughead kiss but it’s odd that they have Betty calling Ethel a psycho bitch here. I mean Ethel is acting like one sure but it’s pretty harsh. And I’m curious how Lili felt about all that.

Again.. at this point I’m expecting them to kill of Ethel.  Other characters were killed off for much less and Ethel is now being more than awful to a main character. But who knows. Next season she may have had a personality transplant and be completely different.

Edited December 6, 2018 by WhosThatGirl

[HeatLifer]

9 minutes ago, WhosThatGirl said:

I wonder how Lili felt about that. She made a tweet telling fans to stop pretty much saying things that Betty in vo was saying. Kind of. And that’s what I don’t really get.

Wasn’t this episode filmed before that incident happened or no? Could be a coincidence. 

I was more interested in whether we should take Ethel’s comments seriously as a clue into who the GK could be. She basically said the GK didn’t want Betty with Jug. Could there be any validity in that? Is there a character who would benefit from them being apart? Or is Ethel just saying nonsense, which is always possible.

[WhosThatGirl]

26 minutes ago, HeatLifer said:

Wasn’t this episode filmed before that incident happened or no? Could be a coincidence. 

I was more interested in whether we should take Ethel’s comments seriously as a clue into who the GK could be. She basically said the GK didn’t want Betty with Jug. Could there be any validity in that? Is there a character who would benefit from them being apart? Or is Ethel just saying nonsense, which is always possible.

I’m not sure. It was definitely written before then, I’m sure not sure about when it was filmed. But I bet Lili wasn’t happy about the wording. 

Yeah I wondered about Ethels wording too. This episode seemed to point all signs towards Hiram, based on how he was connected to all the stories. And he hates Jughead so keeping him away from Betty and keeping him unhappy would be something i

guess.  But again, that seems too easy for it to be him. Maybe someone in the cult? Ethel is tied to the cult because she has a friendship with Evelyn and I’m fully expecting the cult to be tied up to g and g somehow. 

It could just be Ethel talking. Ethel has had a crush on a Jughead, they hinted at in season one but  she had also promised herself to Ben in the game before he killed himself, so shrug. With this show you have to remember things but also forget things for a little bit too. We might circle back here to this or we might not.

Edited December 6, 2018 by WhosThatGirl

[Chaos Theory]

44 minutes ago, HeatLifer said:

I don’t know if that’s what’s actually happening, as in I don’t think they’re mocking people who don’t want Lili with Cole. I think they’re making light of the ridiculousness of “ships” in general and the whole “Brangelina” combined-names generation. Which is...fine. It’s their way of being meta, same way they use “endgame,” which is very much an online fandom terminology.  I think a good lesson for not just young teens, but everyone, is it’s never super positive to attach yourself so much to fictional ships or even real-life actor couples that causes you to lash out in a not-so-positive manner.

If you lash out at a real life girlfriend of of a fictional character because her television character “might” get between your favorite couple that is what is unhealthy.  Teens need to be able to distinguish between what is real and what is fantasy and it is very very dangerous when they bash an actor or more likely actress because they feel their fictional tru luv pairing is in jeopardy 

[WhosThatGirl]

13 minutes ago, Chaos Theory said:

If you lash out at a real life girlfriend of of a fictional character because her television character “might” get between your favorite couple that is what is unhealthy.  Teens need to be able to distinguish between what is real and what is fantasy and it is very very dangerous when they bash an actor or more likely actress because they feel their fictional tru luv pairing is in jeopardy 

I agree with all this. That’s why I don’t quite understand why the writers chose to have Betty voice over certain things. Yes this episode was written before SP got backlash for that kiss but this show has already been aware of the issues they had, last year with  VM getting her very own death threats because of her thing with Bughead.

And I love Bughead and was got of angry about that kiss but seriously..? Then again I’m also an adult.

Also to be honest I don’t see much hate on the real life relationship Lili and Cole have. I think people like it that Tbe couple is real in real life. I’ve seen a few comments about people saying Lili uses for Cole for fame but not many.

I thought  that scene  with Betty and Ethel was just to reinforce that Bughead is fine and they actually talk this season. Unlike the two kisses they had last season that they avoided talking about for a long time. That said I thought the wording was pretty intense. And not needed. Like it made me laugh for a little but then I was reminded that sadly SP And VM probably have gotten those tweets. 

It makes me think that while it’s kind of bad that Toni as a character is a moot point of a character unless she’s doing something with Cheryl, it might be the best thing considering her early days last season.

Edited December 6, 2018 by WhosThatGirl

[HeatLifer]

14 minutes ago, WhosThatGirl said:

could just be Ethel talking. Ethel has had a crush on a Jughead, they hinted at in season one but  she had also promised herself to Ben in the game before he killed himself, so shrug. With this show you have to remember things but also forget things for a little bit too. We might circle back here to this or we might not.

They definitely throw things around that either mean something or don’t mean a thing at all. True. I think the GK being Hiram is too predictable but you never know. 

14 minutes ago, Chaos Theory said:

If you lash out at a real life girlfriend of of a fictional character because her television character “might” get between your favorite couple that is what is unhealthy.  Teens need to be able to distinguish between what is real and what is fantasy and it is very very dangerous when they bash an actor or more likely actress because they feel their fictional tru luv pairing is in jeopardy 

The bashing comes from more than one place, which is why I think the show makes light of “shipping” and in a meta way to remind people it’s not that serious. 

[WhosThatGirl]

8 minutes ago, HeatLifer said:

They definitely throw things around that either mean something or don’t mean a thing at all. True. I think the GK being Hiram is too predictable but you never know. 

 

Yeah, I never really know what the show wants from us. I mean last seasons ending was super ridiculous. I can’t really ever forget that and then had to scramble an ending. I hope that doesn’t happen this time.

I just don’t see them making Hiram the g and g king. They want to keep MC around for a little but he’s definitely a part of it. Maybe he’s finically doing something with it?

And I agree with someone else that it’s odd that now SOQM is all g and g king obsessed when that wasn’t a thing before(and yeah I know it’s proabb like that because of this season) but when Polly and Cheryl were there, there was nothing about this.

So my guess if they don’t shut down the sisters this season, and Toni or Veronica or Josie end up there, I wonder what the torture symbol will be. And chances are they aren’t shutting this place down, they like the set a lot apparently.

[Lady Calypso]

24 minutes ago, WhosThatGirl said:

I just don’t see them making Hiram the g and g king. They want to keep MC around for a little but he’s definitely a part of it. Maybe he’s finically doing something with it?

I'd like to agree with you but seeing as I was convinced that they'd never have Hal as the Black Hood last season because it made no fucking sense (the actor originally portraying the Black Hood did NOT look like Lochlyn Munro in any way), I'm not so sure. They don't do subtle very well. That being said, I think Hiram is less likely than the random Coroner's Son that they introduced in episode 2, I think, or someone from the cult. 

It seems like they're trying to tie everything to G&G. What was originally assumed as connected only to Riverdale now stems across other towns surrounding Riverdale. Hiram now apparently owns not just Riverdale but all connecting towns. It's just....it's really dumb. I can be entertained by Hiram sometimes, but his hand dipped in all the plots is really, really stupid to me. 

You know what else is stupid? Or, who? Archie. I did chuckle at Jughead basically listing the reason for sticking with Archie because he's Too Stupid To Live. And...he wasn't wrong. The moment Jughead left him alone with the Pretty Girl, even after warning him to keep his head on straight, he was basically blabbing his whole life story. I get that Archie couldn't have predicted that the two sisters, and the dead town, would be connected to Hiram, but still! There's a reason why Jughead lied about your names, man! Read a room!

No surprise Veronica is wishy washy when it comes to her father. I mean, he isn't wrong about Veronica. Hiram even knows that Veronica is ill equipped to run a shady business without him around. She would have gotten screwed over and Hiram was the one to help her out. 

The SOQM stuff was decent enough. I, too, don't know what they're trying to do with Ethel but I'm not loving it. It's not like I liked Ethel to begin with and she always had a shade to her, but she's gone full on crazy to the point where her and Betty are fighting over Jughead which I don't love.

[AdorkableSars]

18 hours ago, Advance35 said:

Archie Andrews is a cheater at heart.  Veronica, he is not worth everything your giving up.   The boy is your High School studhorse and that should be all.  Leaving the Pembrook  to sleep in Pop's basement?  Tsk Tsk Tsk.  Comic Book Veronica would NEVER.

True! But Comic Book Hiram would probably not go around trying having people killed and running a prison/drug conglomerate. 

17 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

I like Veronica and Reggie as friends/partners in crime. Now, could someone deal with Reggie's abusive dad?

Wouldn't that be nice...unless it's the Core Four, I don't count on things like this being addressed. But I would love if this was dealt with!

17 hours ago, Advance35 said:

I liked the chemistry between Reggie and Veronica but I questioned whether he was too "simple" for Veronica.  He'll never warrant a think tank but he did cotton to what Elio was up to and he's proactive, almost foolishly so, he was perfectly willing to go over there and throw Elio out on Veronica's say so.  I don't even need a redemption story per se.  She can just have a falling out and loathe a majority of other characters hence forth and forevermore.    She can have her own quiet moments of pathos.

 

2 hours ago, SourK said:

I judged Jughead last week for leaving town with Archie even though he couldn't check in with Betty and make sure she was cool, but this week I've been convinced of his wisdom. Archie would literally be dead if he didn't have someone to watch him, and, of the two, Betty's probably the safer one to leave alone. Good call.

Well, she did date Archie, so I don't think she minds if the dudes that she dates are too "simple". Archie may have out-dumbed himself this episode, and I never thought that could be possible. Because he has done a LOT of stupid things on this show. It's a damn good thing that Archie (and his abs) are pretty, because dang, he DUMB AF. Like, the dumbest human being...nay, LIVING being on this show. Vegas is smarter...the trees in the forest are smarter. Thank GOD Jughead went with him.

Was anybody else offended that they were referring to Hiram as The Man in Black? There should only be one The Man In Black, and his name is Johnny Cash. Hiram can walk the line straight into hell. But for real, his nerfarious and evil ways are very entertaining. And you can tell that in his own twisted way, he really does care about his daugher. 

Hated that they broke Betty. Very over Ethel right now, for all of the reasons you've all mentioned already. Loved seeing Jughead/Archie friendship scenes (although I guess it was more like Jughead babysitting Archie), and I'm excited to see Jug's mom and sister next week. Hated that once again, there was no Cheryl in this episode. And no Kevin, or Toni, or Josie, or Fred...I MISS FRED. 

[WhosThatGirl]

32 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

I'd like to agree with you but seeing as I was convinced that they'd never have Hal as the Black Hood last season because it made no fucking sense (the actor originally portraying the Black Hood did NOT look like Lochlyn Munro in any way), I'm not so sure. They don't do subtle very well. That being said, I think Hiram is less likely than the random Coroner's Son that they introduced in episode 2, I think, or someone from the cult. 

It seems like they're trying to tie everything to G&G. What was originally assumed as connected only to Riverdale now stems across other towns surrounding Riverdale. Hiram now apparently owns not just Riverdale but all connecting towns. It's just....it's really dumb. I can be entertained by Hiram sometimes, but his hand dipped in all the plots is really, really stupid to me. 

You know what else is stupid? Or, who? Archie. I did chuckle at Jughead basically listing the reason for sticking with Archie because he's Too Stupid To Live. And...he wasn't wrong. The moment Jughead left him alone with the Pretty Girl, even after warning him to keep his head on straight, he was basically blabbing his whole life story. I get that Archie couldn't have predicted that the two sisters, and the dead town, would be connected to Hiram, but still! There's a reason why Jughead lied about your names, man! Read a room!

No surprise Veronica is wishy washy when it comes to her father. I mean, he isn't wrong about Veronica. Hiram even knows that Veronica is ill equipped to run a shady business without him around. She would have gotten screwed over and Hiram was the one to help her out. 

The SOQM stuff was decent enough. I, too, don't know what they're trying to do with Ethel but I'm not loving it. It's not like I liked Ethel to begin with and she always had a shade to her, but she's gone full on crazy to the point where her and Betty are fighting over Jughead which I don't love.

I agree with everything you posted. Especially the Hal stuff. At this point Hiram will probably be the g and g king but then again.. it makes too much sense at this point and remember last season I’m sorru

up until the final two episodes when they just threw things together to make it seem like he was the black Hood.  So yeah they’re throwing Hiram out there but it’s kind of too early for that. It really kind of is like last season when the show had actual suspects and the chose to go with Hal.

Yeah. I know people like this season ad sometimes I do but it’s so strange certain aspects of it that I can’t ignore. 

Also yes Archie is a moron. 

Edited December 6, 2018 by WhosThatGirl

[HeatLifer]

9 minutes ago, AdorkableSars said:

Was anybody else offended that they were referring to Hiram as The Man in Black? There should only be one The Man In Black, and his name is Johnny Cash.

That....and Lost and Westworld and The Men in Black, it’s used so much in pop culture now, lol. 

12 minutes ago, AdorkableSars said:

Hated that once again, there was no Cheryl in this episode. And no Kevin, or Toni, or Josie, or Fred...I MISS FRED. 

Second this. 

Archie is severely limited in his...brain...but I think it’s more so that he’s very trusting and gives people the benefit of the doubt. He’s not exactly a pessimistic thinker. But what doesn’t ring true is that he’d still be like this after what happened in prison and everything going on with Hiram. Archie’s genuine nature should be changing as an affect of all this, which was slightly brought out when he legit wanted to kill Hiram. Archie’s scar might have miraculously disappeared (damn, he looked good, lawd), but he could have died. 

And that brings me to Veronica. I get that Hiram is her father and it will take a lot to finally sever herself from him but it speaks volumes about how “deep” (by deep, I mean shallow) she really feels about Archie that she so quickly is even on speaking terms with him. Archie may be not so sharp, but he also deserves better than that.

Also, I was semi-validated when Jug left Archie to go “take pictures.” Jug’s first priority is still the game, IMO.

[WhosThatGirl]

4 minutes ago, HeatLifer said:

That....and Lost and Westworld and The Men in Black, it’s used so much in pop culture now, lol. 

Second this. 

Archie is severely limited in his...brain...but I think it’s more so that he’s very trusting and gives people the benefit of the doubt. He’s not exactly a pessimistic thinker. But what doesn’t ring true is that he’d still be like this after what happened in prison and everything going on with Hiram. Archie’s genuine nature should be changing as an affect of all this, which was slightly brought out when he legit wanted to kill Hiram. Archie’s scar might have miraculously disappeared (damn, he looked good, lawd), but he could have died. 

And that brings me to Veronica. I get that Hiram is her father and it will take a lot to finally sever herself from him but it speaks volumes about how “deep” (by deep, I mean shallow) she really feels about Archie that she so quickly is even on speaking terms with him. Archie may be not so sharp, but he also deserves better than that.

Also, I was semi-validated when Jug left Archie to go “take pictures.” Jug’s first priority is still the game, IMO.

Yeah and I remember reading something a week or so ago that CM that on her end speaking for the Veronica character that Veronica would be fighting for her relationship with Archie. Which.. really? Last nights episode indicated the opposite. And going into this episode I expected that to be more from Archie. 

And that’s the thing. I like this cast but sometimes they are really quite tone deaf on their characters and their characters actions a lot of the time.

Edited December 6, 2018 by WhosThatGirl

[HeatLifer]

31 minutes ago, WhosThatGirl said:

Yeah and I remember reading something a week or so ago that CM that on her end speaking for the Veronica character that Veronica would be fighting for her relationship with Archie. Which.. really? Last nights episode indicated the opposite. And going into this episode I expected that to be more from Archie. 

And that’s the thing. I like this cast but sometimes they are really quite tone deaf on their characters and their characters actions a lot of the time.

I always take what they say with a large grain of salt. Most of them have a habit of not wanting to alienate fans and/or they just say what they WANT to happen or THINK will happen. It’s not based on the actual script. 

I don’t think Veronica or Archie will be running after each other or fighting for each other face-to-face as long as Hiram is not dealt with first. I think they love each other on some level and Archie specifically doesn’t want to disrespect his past relationship with Veronica (which ended, like, a day ago) by leading other women on aka Laurie or whoever. He’s still a guy, though, so his general behavior of finding the chick attractive didn’t shock me. 

[WhosThatGirl]

2 hours ago, HeatLifer said:

I always take what they say with a large grain of salt. Most of them have a habit of not wanting to alienate fans and/or they just say what they WANT to happen or THINK will happen. It’s not based on the actual script. 

I don’t think Veronica or Archie will be running after each other or fighting for each other face-to-face as long as Hiram is not dealt with first. I think they love each other on some level and Archie specifically doesn’t want to disrespect his past relationship with Veronica (which ended, like, a day ago) by leading other women on aka Laurie or whoever. He’s still a guy, though, so his general behavior of finding the chick attractive didn’t shock me. 

I guess. She’s also been saying tuff about the possibly of Veggie happening as well. It’s just interesting. I do feel like certain actors  of this show don’t try to bait the fans or ships on all terms. And I prefer that. I know they don’t want so alienate anyone but sometimes they talk and it makes it kind of confusing to watch the show when it tells us a different thing.

Also for me the tone deaf thing is mostly stuff from last season. Like no one understanding last season why tgt strip serpent dance Betty did people didn’t quite understand. Like a lot of people in the show didn’t understand people’s negative reactions towards it.

[Snookums]

I liked this one! It moved the (ridiculous) plots along nicely and while not everybody was on screen, the ones that were got some stuff done. 

Starting with Jug and Archie as Candide and Doctor Pangloss...

I have to admit, I enjoy when shows like this one occasionally call out their own sheer insanity. "Archie, no offense, but Betty took down a serial killer last year. You can't go five minutes without being abducted or beaten up. " Hee. Jug will have occasion to regret this decision, though, as both of them apparently took off on a cross country hike without much in the way of food or money, plus Arch decides that now is the time to be more guileless than a newborn kitten raised in a Skinner box by the Amish and tell random young women he met mere hours ago who greeted him with rifles that hey, *smooch* you're real nice and all but my true love's dad is trying to kill me, and my name's not really Biff. Glad to move bales of hay for you though! Mmmm, eggs! OW, MY TENDER BRAINS! 

(I honestly assumed whatshername had drugged said eggs, considering Archie would probably drink from a smoking beaker labeled POISON if you handed it to him, but nope, let's go for massive closed head trauma that doesn't cause equally massive brain damage instead. Okay.)

Meanwhile, Jug's off checking out the Preteens of the Corn and their abandoned town (how far away is Athens from Riverdale in the ever-twisting pocket universe they inhabit, by the by? Either Hiram really is spreading his net around or this intrepid duo has gone about thirty miles in as many days, and that included hopping a freight at one point!) As soon as he hears "Man in Black" he immediately concludes it's Hiram! And he's right!

(Must call out said Hiram's poor haberdashery choice, by the by. I normally love that length of coat on a man, but not combined with that bizarre white-spotted tweed material. He looked like he was wearing a very sinister housecoat. Anyway.)

The big scene in the barn with Archie pleading with Jughead to let him kill Hiram was quite good despite its silly premise, because both actors sold their positions. Archie says "I can kill him, I can, Jug" and Jug is all yeah, you can and you believe them both. KJ doesn't get many chances to show what he can do because of this character's limits, but I truly believed he was fed up and hopeless enough to try to murder a grown man, and Cole Sprouse's frantic casting around for reasons to stop him showed he did too.

(Why the hell, by the way, did neither of these teenage boys mention the most obvious choice about their situation: to just go back home already? If they really can't get away from the Dreadful Hs's net of deceit and lies, they aren't going to be in any more danger in Riverdale than anywhere else, right? How is living this way any better than standing your ground on your home turf? Anyway.)

Moving on to Ronnie and her--interesting choices for income generation. Okay, just like the last segment and its reality check-in, it opens with pointing out that this mocktail under 21 club isn't the license to print money that she thought it was. (Although, why is Pop's doing so badly upstairs? He's still there and very active, and this is the go-to place for pretty much the entire town.) So she and Reggie, whose dad has moved on from corporal punishment to making him wear his grandpa's golf pants, decide to set up a one night only casino???? And import all the games and dealers and players who can't wait to haul themselves out of real gambling places and/or New York to go blow a bunch of money in a teenager's illegal pop-up den of vice (and that ISN'T EVEN SERVING REAL BOOZE?) 

This whole thing was really damn unbelievable on multiple levels, and was basically only a framing device for Ronnie's back and forths with Hiram. That confrontation in the diner was worth its weight in gold if only for Marc Consuelos's ability to genuinely say lines like "are you angry with me?" without just dissolving in hysterics. I wish they'd really let Veronica unleash on him because he needs an equal to push against. It's completely bizarre that on one hand he's apparently taking over the entire damn state in his evil plots and yet only ever seems to confront teenagers at a level of Taking!It!Personally! that is getting genuinely uncomfortable to watch. 

I will say that Veronica's FINALLY bailing on her folks' home was nicely done; even Hermione couldn't bring herself to say anything realistically parental like YOU ARE SIXTEEN YEARS OLD YOUNG LADY, SIT YOUR ASS DOWN AND DO YOUR HOMEWORK. Who are we kidding at this point? Anyway.

On to Betty and her actual abilities getting room to breathe, plus progress on the various threads of the mystery!

Again, this was a showcase for one of the leads, and Lili really brought it. Her VO was synched perfectly with her expressions and body language, and the constant "act normal, act sane, focus" thing did a great job in reminding you that Betty is one bad night away from fucking losing it. Despite this, she managed to gather a LOT of information; not the least of which is that the SOQM, the Blossoms, and Hiram (again) are all centering on something very big and very bad. It's a genuine relief to see that the writers hadn't forgotten that the Blossoms ran the drug business in this town for years and somehow Hiram's gotten into (or back into) that game, using the Sisters as a dead drop. (I'm assuming he's a fairly recent "angel" benefactor as opposed to long term, to use the inmates for testing.) While Hiram is clearly using this G&G thing for his own ends, though, I don't think he's the Gargoyle King. He clearly does not have time to put on the stick marionette suit and hang out at the boarding school to scare teenagers--he's running all over the state draining towns of their lifeblood and gaslighting his daughter and whatnot! He's busy!

(Also, if Hiram is this good at crime and shit, how the hell did he ever get busted and go to prison in the first place??? He's not some syphilis ridden Al Capone character who doesn't bother with his tax returns or whatever.)

While I'm glad Ethel gets a chance to do more and be evil (always fun to play), and listening to Betty's "this psycho bitch" head commentary was hilarious, I really dread what the so called "fans" are going to do to this poor actor. I don't get how people who are old enough to sit up and tie their own shoes can get that overinvested in FICTIONAL characters and decide that vile and vicious berating on social media will make them look good.

[Dobian]

This show really has gone full-on Twilight Zone.

Betty Flew over the Cuckoo's Nest.

Side note.  I was at Trader Joe's today (for those not familiar, a specialty supermarket chain), and on the front page of the newsletter on the counter was an ad for a holiday treat on sale called Jingle Jangle.  So I thought, wow, they are actually selling the illegal Riverdale drug for the holiday season!

[WhosThatGirl]

6 minutes ago, Dobian said:

This show really has gone full-on Twilight Zone.

Betty Flew over the Cuckoo's Nest.

Side note.  I was at Trader Joe's today (for those not familiar, a specialty supermarket chain), and on the front page of the newsletter on the counter was an ad for a holiday treat on sale called Jingle Jangle.  So I thought, wow, they are actually selling the illegal Riverdale drug for the holiday season!

That was actually out last year like right after Riverdale had made it into their drug. Trader Joe’s even released a statement about it and how it wasn’t like the drug on Riverdale.

[thuganomics85]

Snarky, Sinister Voiceover Betty might be my new favorite character.  If they ever decided to do a gender-swapped reboot of Dexter, I'd toss Lili Reinhart's name into the hat!

Oh, Archie!  Now, there's the silly, high school, horn-dog doofus I remember!  His relationship with Veronica has barely gone cold, and he's already getting hot over the next pretty girl who is nice to him, and blabs everything to her.  Classic Archie!  To be fair, Riley Keough is pretty awesome (loved her in Mad Max: Fury Road.)  I wonder if we'll see Laurie again.

Speaking of which, Veronica is doing what she does best, which is get all mad at Hiram and declare she wants nothing to do with him anymore, only to end up following his advice and even pulling a stunt that would make him proud.  She really can't seem to fully escape him: probably because she is a Lodge through and through, even if she doesn't want to admit it.  I am enjoying the Veronica/Reggie pair (and I'm apparently out of the loop: are Camila Mendes and Charles Melton dating in real life?)

I'm guessing Cheryl, Kevin, Tori, and Josie where off playing their own G&G game during all of this?

Anytime I heard "Sister Woodhouse", I kept thinking of Woodhouse from Archer, and that caused me to imagine what a crossover between Archer and Riverdale would look like.  Honestly, it probably wouldn't be that far-fetched.

At this point, let us just say Hiram owns the entire state now.

Ethel has completely drunken the Gargoyle King kool-aid, and now it looks like even Betty has been broken.  We'll see, I guess.  Maybe Dark Betty can fix all of this!

[WhosThatGirl]

No, I hope Dark Betty never returns.  No one wants that. Also Lili has said dark Betty is gone, at least for this season. She has said it in many interviews.

And yes Camilla and Charles are dating in real life.

I really hope Betty is faking but then again her last thought of the g and g King was not said out loud, so it seems like she is broken and that makes me sad. This makes me think that if or when she gets out, she’s like ten seconds away from joining the farm cult and getting even more brainwashed.  Which.. great. Said no one ever.

None of these characters left on this show are even going to have any control over their thoughts or feelings or actions. Even Reggie, Kevin and Josie started playing the game a few episodes ago so they’re in it too.

The only who hasn’t is Archie and I’m sorry but if he’s the only one left, I mean.. really.. look how great he did running away. He was giving out all his information and reasons foR running away. 

Edited December 7, 2018 by WhosThatGirl

[Daltrey]

On 05/12/2018 at 6:13 PM, Advance35 said:

Cracked up when Hiram said "Are you angry about something."

LMFAO when he said that, best line of the episode, and there were a few great ones. Messed up as it is, I think I enjoyed Betty's segment the most just because of Lili's voiceover work for Betty's inner monologue and her interactions with Ethel. 

[WhosThatGirl]

4 minutes ago, Daltrey said:

LMFAO when he said that, best line of the episode, and there were a few great ones. Messed up as it is, I think I enjoyed Betty's segment the most just because of Lili's voiceover work for Betty's inner monologue and her interactions with Ethel. 

I thought betty had the best story too. Mostly because I always thought in some season Alice was going to send Betty to SOQM for something. I still wish it wasn’t tied up in this story. And I hope betty isn’t for real brainwashed. Or that she’s going to be all about the cult. That’s what worries me. 

[PeekaBoo]

So many feels...
Jarchie part: 

I loved the dynamic between Jarchie this episode, nothign like a road trip slash running away to have some great bro moments. And everything Jughead said is true... Not even 5 minutes and Archie gets into trouble!! Gah! A bit of talk and then he spills his secrets to some dubious character! Awwww, man! I saw that frying pan coming a mile away! Pff! What was interesting was seeing how Hiram is just fucking everywhere! I don't think he 's the GK but what is he up to besides obvious world domination?!?! Is that Laurie Lake meant to be a recurring character? Despite ARchie succumbing to kissing Laurie, I'm proud that he stopped it. Boy's growing! 
Veronica part:

 I don't really have any big interest in her speak-easy. I'm still trying to figure out how she can be a bar owner making legal decisions when she's only 16 but whatever.... Nah, I'm a bit weary of her. I mean, how can she still think her dadddy is good? Is she still binded by her love for her daddy that she isn't seeing for the asshole that he is? Gah!  I'm happy that she decided to move out but afraid that this girl might go bad. although she hasn't shown full mean girl-moments I'm wondering if they might go that way and in a way, that would be interesting. A bit annoyed that Elio double crossed her, I'd hoped she would've gotten an ally. I'm seeing the Veggie vibes and I'm like meh on it. 

Betty part:

Oh my girl betty! Gotta give her credit for playing the sisters as long as she possibly could! I loved her part the most and boy did she try. The whole thing with Clifford and Hiram and the fizle rocks is so freaking weird and the GK as well. I have no idea what they're up and it's sooo exciting! It's like the show just added a huge mix of characters and they're going to try to figure out how to make sense out of it! lol.

Ethel is just... I do like her, I've always liked her and while I don't really like her storyline, the girl is crazy. 

[Dobian]

7 hours ago, WhosThatGirl said:

That was actually out last year like right after Riverdale had made it into their drug. Trader Joe’s even released a statement about it and how it wasn’t like the drug on Riverdale.

lol didn't know that.

 

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Moving on to Ronnie and her--interesting choices for income generation. Okay, just like the last segment and its reality check-in, it opens with pointing out that this mocktail under 21 club isn't the license to print money that she thought it was. (Although, why is Pop's doing so badly upstairs? He's still there and very active, and this is the go-to place for pretty much the entire town.) So she and Reggie, whose dad has moved on from corporal punishment to making him wear his grandpa's golf pants, decide to set up a one night only casino???? And import all the games and dealers and players who can't wait to haul themselves out of real gambling places and/or New York to go blow a bunch of money in a teenager's illegal pop-up den of vice (and that ISN'T EVEN SERVING REAL BOOZE?) 

There are four levels of believability in shows and movies.  Totally believable/plausible, somewhat believable/plausible, fantasy/plausible, and fantasy/implausible.  Riverdale is of course the last one, and is not ashamed to admit it.

Edited December 7, 2018 by Dobian

[HeatLifer]

11 hours ago, Snookums said:

The big scene in the barn with Archie pleading with Jughead to let him kill Hiram was quite good despite its silly premise, because both actors sold their positions. Archie says "I can kill him, I can, Jug" and Jug is all yeah, you can and you believe them both. KJ doesn't get many chances to show what he can do because of this character's limits, but I truly believed he was fed up and hopeless enough to try to murder a grown man, and Cole Sprouse's frantic casting around for reasons to stop him showed he did too.

This was really an underrated scene. You could feel the palpable desperation from both Archie and Jug. Archie is out of options (in his mind) and can only see an end though the literal destruction of the person he sees as the root of it all. And when Jug answers “I know” to Arch saying he can kill Hiram, woo, it was so soft and sad, like he just completely acknowledges Archie’s seriousness. When Jug used the Veronica card, you can also deduce, in a way, that Archie knows his future with Veronica is truly over because as we witnessed, she will never quit her father.

[Snookums]

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 Nah, I'm a bit weary of her. I mean, how can she still think her dadddy is good? Is she still binded by her love for her daddy that she isn't seeing for the asshole that he is? Gah!

 

Unfortunately, this is one of the more realistic (relatively speaking) aspects of the show in general--not being able to fully escape a toxic parent. The kids have it rough due to the fact that they're minors and not legally emancipated so they can't make most decisions without their parent's  consent, but even if they were all thirty it would be just as bad.

Veronica is in an emotionally romantic relationship with her dad. I know, GROSS, but I don't mean physically so, thank God. I mean that they are enmeshed in very codependent bond, and he uses her love for him to bolster his ego and competence the way he used to with Hermione. No matter how sociopathic and brutal he is with everyone else, he always goes to her and gives her the melting eyes and says mija, I do everything for you.

Remember, she literally grew up with this. It's been imprinted into her from the get-go. And she probably has good memories of him along with the truly epic amounts of shit he's pulled (Plus Hermione keeps stanning for him) so it's not as easy as telling Ethel to face reality or even dealing with a boyfriend breakup. This is her dad.

[HeatLifer]

3 minutes ago, Snookums said:

No matter how sociopathic and brutal he is with everyone else, he always goes to her and gives her the melting eyes and says mija, I do everything for you.

Oh, yeah, it’s classic emotional abuse. For every awful thing he does, he counters that with something that Veronica sees as noble or honorable to HER standards. And her standards are usually something that is advantageous to herself.

[WhosThatGirl]

I mean all these parents are abusive and in the emotional way. Not really physical, except for Hal and Clifford and being killers but emotional stuff is still abusive, to me anyway. All the kids seem to have gaslighting parents. Veronica isn’t alone in that.

The only one who has decent parents is as we have said is Archie and Kevin(although again we know next to nothing of his mom) and I know people have their issues with Josie’s mom but I haven’t seen her be terrible to her daughter like every other parent on this show.

But Hiram is truly a gaslighted and Hermione for all her talk of standing by Hiram to protect her daughter, she’s clearly doing a great job(sarcasm). And FP and Galdys even though we haven’t seen her in screeb from her actions off screen are really bad at parenting, same with the Cooper parents and The blossoms. All the parents are gaslighters as well and thats emotional abuse.

And I know it’s a tv show and all that but it makes me sad that the show acknowledges it sometimes and makes it a point, like with Cheryl and the fact that she realized this and Emancipated herself but yet we’re kind of just supposed to hand wave all the other parents because they happen to be favorites. Like.. all these parents suck. Minus Fred, Serria and Tom. And yeah.. I know people have issues with Serria but I haven’t seen her out Josie in terrible situations or make her feel awful for things thf Serria has done. Serria might do skechy things but until we see actual things from her on screen where she’s hurting Josie or other people, I don’t think she’s that bad.

Edited December 7, 2018 by WhosThatGirl

[SourK]

On 12/6/2018 at 3:32 PM, Lady Calypso said:

That being said, I think Hiram is less likely than the random Coroner's Son that they introduced in episode 2, I think, or someone from the cult. 

 

Oh, hey. Good one. I forgot the random coroner's son existed, but if anybody's going Scarecrow on the town, it's him.

18 hours ago, WhosThatGirl said:

That was actually out last year like right after Riverdale had made it into their drug. Trader Joe’s even released a statement about it and how it wasn’t like the drug on Riverdale.

This... is wonderful. And exactly the kind of impact Riverdale deserves to have on the world.

[WhosThatGirl]

4 minutes ago, SourK said:

Oh, hey. Good one. I forgot the random coroner's son existed, but if anybody's going Scarecrow on the town, it's him.

This... is wonderful. And exactly the kind of impact Riverdale deserves to have on the world.

I mean.. it was kind of funny Trader Joe’s had to make a tweet about it.