S04.E04: Common Ground

[Athena]

Quote

Having been led by providence to Fraser's Ridge, Jamie, Claire and Young Ian begin to build a home in the Blue Ridge Mountains. In the 20th Century, Roger tries to reconnect with Brianna.

Reminder: The is the book talk thread. This can include spoilers for ALL the books. If you wish to remain unspoiled for any of the books, please leave now and head to the No Book Talk episode thread.

[areca]

Quote

Having been led by providence to Fraser's Ridge, Jamie, Claire and Young Ian begin to build a home in the Blue Ridge Mountains. In the 20th Century, Roger tries to reconnect with Brianna.

[areca]

Well that was the best episode yet.  Stream of consciousness -- I liked very much how they handled the whole bear killer thing overall.  I've decided I can tolerate Sophie as long as she isn't speaking.  And I'm starting to love Rik Rankin a bit.  Jamie's wig didn't make me want to set it alight for the 2nd episode in a row, and I'm liking the fact that whoever's doing Clare's age makeup seems to be getting it done well.  I wish Ian was a bit more...Ian.  And I'm disappointed that Marsali and Fergus aren't as much of a set of characters as they've been in the books by this point.  (Was Marsali that pregnant when they first set out then?  I feel like she wasn't.)  Did NOT appreciate the surveying of the land with a pack mule, 3 horses, and a wagon.  FFS.  :P  I enjoyed the native segments, though I very much hope we get the scene w/ Jamie and the chief's daughters at some point.  All in all it was the first episode this season that I wanted to watch again, so I did!  

[Petunia846]

I really liked that one! Now it's starting to feel like the season is started.

One particularly nice sequence I want to point out... Roger learns about the obituary in which Jamie and Claire supposedly will die in a fire at the house, then we cut to Jamie and Claire and they're standing in the foundations of the house. At the end of their scene they're hugging, and then we get an overlay of the next scene which happens to start with Roger staring into the fire, so for a minute there, Jamie and Claire are overlaid with the flames. I see what you did there, Show. I got it. Nicely done.

I know Terry basically retired from the show, but she still did this season, right? I'd be really interested in hearing her talk about the research and development of the Cherokee costumes. I was fascinated by the mix of Western garments in with what we think of as more native dress. Especially in the title card, I think it was, you see a Cherokee man wearing that metal necklace thing that British soldiers wear. (Oh, I went to look up the name of it (a gorget), and found on wikipedia: "The British Empire awarded gorgets to chiefs of American Indian tribes both as tokens of goodwill and a badge of their high status." So much to learn.)

[Ziggy]

1 hour ago, areca said:

And I'm disappointed that Marsali and Fergus aren't as much of a set of characters as they've been in the books by this point.  (Was Marsali that pregnant when they first set out then?  I feel like she wasn't.)  

Marsali was pregnant at the very beginning of the book, but Fergus had left her in Jamaca to have the baby there. She does, and they eventually join everyone on Fraser’s Ridge. 

[morgan]

Loved this episode!  I’m so excited to see Frasiers Ridge come to be.  Lovely.  And I agree the Cherokee costumes were amazing.  I’m loving Claire’s wardrobe too, and as much as I will always miss his kilt, Jamie looks gorgeous.  

I am loving Ian more and more each week.  Interesting the difference with the bear, and I appreciate why they made the change and it works.  Nice to see Fergus and Marsali and still enjoying JQM.  

I enjoyed Roger snd Bree and I just love the difference between “modern” times vs our time.  Imagine having to write a letter and wait for a response, whereas now Roger could just jump online.  Loved that Fiona is still a part of the story.

I’m curious about next week and what motivates Bree to go...how does she find out about the fire in the show?  

[cardigirl]

I liked the episode very much. Concerned about the death that is being foretold, and wondering why the showrunners felt the need to change a real bear to a crazed Native American man bear. 

[cardigirl]

4 minutes ago, morgan said:

 

I’m curious about next week and what motivates Bree to go...how does she find out about the fire in the show?  

I think the news of the fire does cause her to go, in the book, but I’ve got a feeling that as soon as she heard that they were settled in North Carolina, she decided to try and join them, per the show’s set up. 

[GingerMarie]

We can't call him Young Ian anymore.  Watching Ian grow from Season 3 to this season has been a joy to watch.  He still has that boyish grin and maybe a little impulsive streak but growing up.  I was very moved by the interaction between Marsali and Claire.  As selfish as Claire can be at times she understood that Marsali needed comfort and reassurance.  They have a bond not that they won't 'butt' heads but they will always have this shared experience of going to a new land.  Jamie was very strong in this episode.  Not talking about his acting (he is a great actor) but he has found his destiny.  When Claire was talking about Brianna and the things they would miss ie. marriage and grandchildren I did find it interesting that Jamie never doubted that Claire would stay with him.  It was very moving to me that as much as she loved and missed her daughter she knew when she left that there was no going back.  I know people are going to 'dig' because Claire took charge when JQ got hurt but I will say I have been a nurse for 33 years and that is what you do.  You take charge.  Still love Fiona.  She is insightful and beautiful.  Now to Roger and Brianna.  Brianna keeps getting better and better and I think Roger is great.  Their storyline is going to be very emotional.  Overall great episode.  Petunia864 I did the same thing as you.  I am brushing up on my history.  Guys not sure why my post is so 'mushy' may have to blame it on the flu.  PEACE

[Haleth]

1 hour ago, cardigirl said:

wondering why the showrunners felt the need to change a real bear to a crazed Native American man bear. 

I bet it's to foreshadow how Roger is treated. 

[GHScorpiosRule]

Ooh look! It’s Snow Bird, Cloud Dancing’s wife from Dr. Quinn, Medicine Woman!

I really like the Cherokee tribe and that one who first spoke English is really hawt.🥰🥰

I need Rollo to do more than sit and bark! Why is it that I remember him doing more in the buiks?

And for all that is Holy, can’t the costumers get Sam a wig that is more appropriate if he didn’t want to grow out his hair and color it anymore? It’s horrid. I ken, I ken, ‘tis verra shallow o’ me, but I can’t help it. I just wanted to reach into my screen and push those awful bangs off of Jamie’s forehead!

Stoopid Tryon, assuming Jamie believes as he does that the Natives should kneel down and cower and follow the English edicts. Did the fool forget that Jamie was a Jacobite and what that means?🙄😒😒😒 I’m just glad Jamie just demurred and got out of there.

I 😄😄😄at Wee Ian’s glee at the possibility of lions on the Ridge.

I ❤️❤️🥰🥰🥰❤️❤️ the bit of flirting and...foreplay if you wull, betwixt Jamie and Claire and how picturing her singing in Church made him ”want tae do indecent things wi’ (to?) her.”🥰😍🥰🥰😍 before Wee Ian interrupted them.

But That sad sack of whatever that’s passing for Jamie’s hair has GOT TO GO!

Edited November 25, 2018 by GHScorpiosRule

[LydiaE]

Has anyone else observed this season how absolutely horrible Sam Heughan's acting is?  It's so campy, especially the exaggerated facial expressions, that it's difficult to enjoy the show!

His fight scene with the "bear" was embarrasing and his over-acting each time the Cherokee approached their camp was laughable.

All of the other actors seem competent and I feel like his acting was decent in previous seasons, especially the first.

Also, they've kept up with Claire's age progression nicely, but Jamie doesn't look like he's aged at all. 

[Eureka]

All I could think of when Jamie told Claire about her “wee shed” for her supplies was “Hey, she has a she-shed!” Lol.

[cardigirl]

1 hour ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

 

Stoopid Tryon, assuming Jamie believes as he does that the Natives should kneel down and cower and follow the English edicts. Did the fool forget that Jamie was a Jacobite and what that means?🙄😒😒😒 I’m just glad Jamie just demurred and got out of there.

 

I thought he was talking about collecting taxes from the colonists, not the Native Americans. Or are we talking about two different parts of the conversation? And he was also complaining that some of his tax collectors were not honest either, something else Jamie would be familiar with. 

Edited November 25, 2018 by cardigirl

[GHScorpiosRule]

1 minute ago, cardigirl said:

I thought he was talking about collecting taxes from the colonists, not the Native Americans. Or are we talking about two different parts of the conversation? And he was also complaining that some of his tax collectors were not honest either, something else Jamie would be familiar with. 

Sorry, three different parts of the same conversation, and I focused on the English’s arrogant superiority NEED to conquer everything and everyone to their laws.

[morgan]

I didn’t catch the connection between the bear-man and Roger down the road.  Good catch and makes total sense!!!!

[areca]

2 hours ago, Haleth said:

I bet it's to foreshadow how Roger is treated. 

They also needed some way to work in JQ's "on the table surgery" scene without an inguinal hernia repair they would have never shown.  :P

Quote

Has anyone else observed this season how absolutely horrible Sam Heughan's acting is?  It's so campy, especially the exaggerated facial expressions, that it's difficult to enjoy the show!

It's not just you.  He used to be very subtle and nuanced and GOOD.  I have no idea what happened to him, but he needs to unlearn it, stat!  The last time he was FANTASTIC was when he was the leaving Helwater episode.  All downhill from there.  I saw this thing where Sam spoke about the new writers in such a way that made me think he didn't care for their choices for Jamie.  I wonder if it's affecting his work.

Edited November 25, 2018 by areca

[bluestocking]

I caught Jaime's line to Fergus about recruiting settlers--try to find Highlanders and the men from Ardsmuir are in the area.  So--any hope Murtagh will reappear?

[Petunia846]

57 minutes ago, bluestocking said:

I caught Jaime's line to Fergus about recruiting settlers--try to find Highlanders and the men from Ardsmuir are in the area.  So--any hope Murtagh will reappear?

Yes! Fingers crossed.

[melody16]

I think Sam has been wonderful this season. I think he is doing a great job showing Jamie's strength and humor and love for his family.  

I liked this episode although it was a little slow for me. I thought the Roger stuff was a little long and I do wish they had ended the episode showing Brianna approaching the stones rather than show that in the trailer for next week. 

[nodorothyparker]

I knew because they're filming in Europe with all the animal welfare laws there compared to filming in the U.S. that the bear fight would probably be a no-go without a lot of expensive CGI.  GOT had the same issue a couple of seasons back filming its bear pit fight but of course that show has a much bigger budget to play with.  So instead of Jamie being Bear Killer, I guess that technically makes him Crazy Guy Pretending to Be a Bear Killer, but that doesn't roll of the tongue nearly as well.

It felt like the show was wanting us to read a lot into Jamie's scene with Tryon, where he was doing an awful lot of grumbling about Natives and the problems with collecting taxes from settlers.  While the accents don't always help, my nonbook reader husband who's been half-heartedly catching up with the series this weekend, for example, didn't immediately realize that by taking the land grant Jamie would be obligated to support the English government in any fighting likely to arise from that.  He was distracted by wondering exactly how clear the Natives were on the lines drawn on the land map Tryon was handing over.  That Jamie and Claire later discuss that they're building their house near the far boundary of the land and that the Natives kept showing up to offer pushback to that had him thinking that they didn't.  

They're still really clipping along pretty quickly ticking off boxes to set up the story.  The streamlining of Roger figures out where Claire and Jamie went and then discovers the newspaper clipping of the fire is an example of that.  Of course Fiona just happens to have that particular clipping in this drawer right here just in case.  But again it continues the trend from last season of giving all of Brianna's agency in searching for her parents to Roger.  We're given no hint that she would have taken any initiative to look for herself if he hadn't earlier been given the NC settlers book and struck up correspondence with the author.  She was apparently just sitting around her apartment with her roommate and her dog with no thought at all in that direction until Roger planted it, which unless they're also planning on seriously revamping the Roger finally meets up with the Frasiers story is going to make Jamie and the rest by extension look all the worse as Brianna never would have gone back to meet them in the first place had Roger not set it all in motion.

Nice to see Tantoo Cardinal continuing to get work.  She's been terrific in everything she's been in involving Native actors going all way back to Dances with Wolves.

The wig is extremely greasy looking.  I keep wanting to yell at Jamie to go wash his bangs or something and then I remember all over again that it's just a terrible wig.

[cardigirl]

Regarding the state of Jamie’s hair perhaps he has no regular access to soap and water out there on Fraser’s Ridge.  😉

[Quickbeam]

Shout out to men knitting! Both my grandfather and father (Scots) could knit competently. I liked this episode well enough. Am pleased that First Nations people were able to cast in. Seems like the SAG position is a bit poorly serving the Native American actors. 

 

Still hate Jamie’s wig. I did feel this episode moved things along. 

Edited November 25, 2018 by Quickbeam

[Ziggy]

I was so impressed with how the weaved together the story of meeting the Native Americans and the "bear killer."  Definitely kept me on the edge of my seat!

I would have liked more Roger and Bree, but overall I was pleased with what they did.  We don't know what Bree has been up to.  It seems safe to assume that, at the very least, Bree contacted the author of the book once Roger told her where he got his information.  How could she not?  It's quite possible she was already doing some research.  I'm curious what she'll have to say once we finally catch up with her.

I believe in the book Roger knew she was doing research, but he did not know that she knew about the house fire until after they met in the Colonies.  Was that the first the reader knew as well?  I can't remember.  I reread Voyager before Season 3 aired, but I'm kind of enjoying watching this season with only a vague memory of what will happen.

[GHScorpiosRule]

2 minutes ago, Ziggy said:

I believe in the book Roger knew she was doing research, but he did not know that she knew about the house fire until after they met in the Colonies. 

Right-and they fought about it-that he knew and didn’t tell her. I can’t recall how Brianna found out, though. Did she also find that article and that’s what decided her to go through the stones? And I know I should just accept this as timeywhimy, but how would Mrs. Graham have that article about the fire before Claire went back? Claire was in Boston in the present time when Mrs. Graham died.🤔🤔

[Ziggy]

2 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

how would Mrs. Graham have that article about the fire before Claire went back? Claire was in Boston in the present time when Mrs. Graham died.🤔🤔

I just assumed that was part of the research the Reverend had done for Frank when he asked about James Fraser.  Diana did say she plans to someday write a book called "What Frank knew."

[nodorothyparker]

8 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

And I know I should just accept this as timeywhimy, but how would Mrs. Graham have that article about the fire before Claire went back? Claire was in Boston in the present time when Mrs. Graham died.

That didn't even occur to me, but good catch.  I know we saw Mrs. Graham tell Claire after she came back through the stones to let it go and move on with her life, but discovering that this person you knew did indeed go back in time again at some point in your future only to die in a fire might have been worth dropping a postcard or calling Claire up at some point so she'd have that information in making any potential time travel decisions.  Claire felt obligated to at least try to do as much for Geillis even after she barbecued her husband.

[cardigirl]

1 hour ago, Quickbeam said:

Shout out to men knitting! Both my grandfather and father (Scots) could knit competently. I liked this episode well enough. Am pleased that First Nations people were able to cast in. Seems like the SAG position is a bit poorly serving the Native American actors. 

 

Still hate Jamie’s wig. I did feel this episode moved things along. 

 

Again, I may have misunderstood, but I thought it was said that they used actors from Canada because they are not a SAG set and the U.S. actors are SAG or union. https://www.cheatsheet.com/entertainment/why-outlander-doesnt-have-americans-playing-cherokee-and-mohawk-characters.html/

Edited November 25, 2018 by cardigirl

[morgan]

58 minutes ago, nodorothyparker said:

That didn't even occur to me, but good catch.  I know we saw Mrs. Graham tell Claire after she came back through the stones to let it go and move on with her life, but discovering that this person you knew did indeed go back in time again at some point in your future only to die in a fire might have been worth dropping a postcard or calling Claire up at some point so she'd have that information in making any potential time travel decisions.  Claire felt obligated to at least try to do as much for Geillis even after she barbecued her husband.

My thought is that Mrs Graham would not believe in interfering with what will be.  Telling would make no difference so why tell?  

[GHScorpiosRule]

1 hour ago, nodorothyparker said:

That didn't even occur to me, but good catch.  I know we saw Mrs. Graham tell Claire after she came back through the stones to let it go and move on with her life, but discovering that this person you knew did indeed go back in time again at some point in your future only to die in a fire might have been worth dropping a postcard or calling Claire up at some point so she'd have that information in making any potential time travel decisions.  Claire felt obligated to at least try to do as much for Geillis even after she barbecued her husband.

 

13 minutes ago, morgan said:

My thought is that Mrs Graham would not believe in interfering with what will be.  Telling would make no difference so why tell?  

Like I said, I am going to have to hand wave this as timeywhimey because Claire hadn’t gone BACK to the past while both the Reverend and Mrs. Graham were alive. It’s just going to make my head hurt.😣

[Nidratime]

But they were both alive when Claire came back from the past and told Frank everything (as well as Claire's confiding in Mrs. Graham). Didn't Frank ask the Reverend to help him with his research on Jamie Fraser? It's true that Claire hadn't gone back to the past for many years later, but their having found that article and possibly sharing it with Frank must have gotten their minds whirling, especially Frank's.

Edited November 25, 2018 by Nidratime

[Starla]

Had to come and chime in on the location of this season. I’m born and raised in North Carolina, and many years ago I came to hike at Grandfather Mountain. Like Jamie, the mountain “spoke to me” and I dropped everything and moved to live near it. Now it is 25 years later, and I still live next to Grandfather Mountain (no one lives on it… it’s a state park and protected wildlife preserve). I’ve always lived with a couple of miles of it and hike on it as often as possible. It really does have an amazing “vibe” and I expect to live the rest of my life hiking its trails. This is one of the things I think Diana really captured in writing the Outlander series, is how beautiful this area is.

It’s clear that they are not filming here (though there was a shot of the real Grandfather Mountain in the background of the Highland Games in last week’s episode), but I think they’ve a good job of finding a comparable location. This whole area was clear cut in late 19th and early 20th century, so all of the current forests and trees are much smaller and closer together than they would have been in Jamie and Claire’s time. In modern times it would be very difficult to travel through the forest with donkeys and wagons without a well-worn trail. There are a lot of huge rhododendron thickets now that makes travel through the forest very difficult. We do have a lot of moss covered trees and rocks, and it’s nice to see those in the show.

I'm also glad that they consulted with the Cherokee and have worked hard to get the Native American parts right. It's been a while since I read the book, but I believe it had the Mohawk tribe living near Frasiers Ridge. As far as I know there were no Mohawk living in this area. It's all Cherokee land and all of the trails on Grandfather Mountain have Cherokee names. 

One interesting note, I worked at the Highland Games this year and there were a lot of Outlander activities. I didn’t get to attend any because I was working while I was there, but I thought it was great that more people know about the books and are coming to the games because of it. I expect there to be even more Outlander fans next year after this season. I would highly recommend it to anyone who can get this way. :-)

[Nidratime]

Did no one find it ironic that the initials "F R," along with standing for Fraser's Ridge, also stands for Frank Randall?

[Squirrely]

I thought it was pretty much a known fact that Frank knew Bree went back. He raised her to ride horses and shoot/hunt and all kinds of things dads weren't typically teaching their daughters in the 60s in Boston. He was prepping her for 18th century life. 

Edited November 26, 2018 by Squirrely
Finishing thought

[Nidratime]

I laughed out loud when Claire climbed on the stone to look at the view of Fraser's Ridge and said, people would say it wasn't real! (I'm paraphrasing.)

[ruby24]

I knew Jamie fought a real bear in the book! For a second I thought I was misremembering, but nope. 

So they didn't have enough money to CG a bear then? 

[Nidratime]

Quote

So they didn't have enough money to CG a bear then? 

Considering the complaints they're getting about CGI-ing the background of sets, I think they're better off not trying to do it by CGI only to have people complain about it. Besides, there's so many groups that are against showing animals being killed, whether CGI or not.

[Atlanta]

I really hope they have Bri having had finished her degree. She seemed to 'poof' fast unlike the book. Engineering is a big part of who she is and in future books/seasons.

So glad the Frasers and the Native Americans are getting along. In the books, they've always had a friendly relationship.

[Scarlett45]

I enjoyed the episode, but it did feel like a transitionary one, setting up the next half of the season. 

I know colonial area cabins were far smaller than a home I’d be used to, but that cabin seemed way too small for a hearth, and a table and a bed!

[Ziggy]

4 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

 

Like I said, I am going to have to hand wave this as timeywhimey because Claire hadn’t gone BACK to the past while both the Reverend and Mrs. Graham were alive. It’s just going to make my head hurt.😣

Maybe I don’t fully understand, but why does Claire not having gone back in time yet have to do with anything. We’re talking about something that happened in the 1700’s. It had already happened. It does it matter that Claire was in the 20th Century when Mrs. Graham learned about it. It had already happened.

[fresiaa]

Sorry to nit pick, it really is a great show!

 

It does my head in - WHY did they have Fiona have that newspaper clipping for many years AND knowing all along they were looking for one James Fraser? It makes her an ultimate betch, to not give it to Clair in 1968.  Another "doesn't make sense". They could have just easily put the clipping in the writers letter.

The house looks way too small. Is it supposed to be the cabin? I don't remember a shelter before that. The hearth stone was for the Big House, right?

I didn't see any thing of the bear, its damage to Meyers or the fight. I don't have a fancy expensive TV. I just see black. In most shows I shout "open the curtains" or "switch on the light". Here I was shouting a la Claire "bring more candles". Just saying.... I can't see dark scenes, so they might have just taped the audio as far as I'm concerned. No need for make up or CGI

[theschnauzers]

From what Fiona told Roger in the episode, she and her husband found the folder after they moved in and dealing with things that they found in the house that were from the Reverend. So my impression is that it was recent (since it had to be in the time since Roger moved out, went to North Carolina with Bree, and whatever time it was before he went back to Inverness.)

So the discovery of the microfiche prints was recent. The fact that Fiona knew of Claire’s time traveling dates back to the time of the first episode of season 3 at the wake for the Reverend.

Edited November 28, 2018 by theschnauzers

[satrunrose]

10 hours ago, Squirrely said:

I thought it was pretty much a known fact that Frank knew Bree went back. He raised her to ride horses and shoot/hunt and all kinds of things dads weren't typically teaching their daughters in the 60s in Boston. He was prepping her for 18th century life. 

After DOA, I've always thought the books come down on the side of what happened in the past being fate. Claire was always going to choose Jamie and be in 177-whatever (it's too early in the morning for me to go digging for the date of the 'fire') so the notice was always there to find. 

[Haleth]

15 hours ago, nodorothyparker said:

Nice to see Tantoo Cardinal continuing to get work.  She's been terrific in everything she's been in involving Native actors going all way back to Dances with Wolves.

I thought that was her.  She is a beautiful woman (and hasn't changed a bit!).

[Ziggy]

2 hours ago, satrunrose said:

After DOA, I've always thought the books come down on the side of what happened in the past being fate. Claire was always going to choose Jamie and be in 177-whatever (it's too early in the morning for me to go digging for the date of the 'fire') so the notice was always there to find. 

That's how I see it, too.  When she and Jamie were trying to stop Culloden, really, all of those events that they were a part of were the events of Culloden.  Claire was always a part of that.

I don't think Diana has made it 100% certain in her books (though I have not read them multiple times, so there is so much I don't remember), but I do not believe time travel in Outlander is like Back to the Future where events of the past can be changed.  I think events of the past always were.  Claire was always there in the years just before Culloden.  Claire was always there when Jamie founded Fraser's Ridge.

 

13 hours ago, Squirrely said:

I thought it was pretty much a known fact that Frank knew Bree went back. He raised her to ride horses and shoot/hunt and all kinds of things dads weren't typically teaching their daughters in the 60s in Boston. He was prepping her for 18th century life. 

 

I agree with everything you said except the word "fact."  It sure seems like that was exactly what Diana was saying in the book, but I think she was very careful to leave just a little bit of doubt.  What if it was just a coincidence?  Frank did have a love for the past.  Maybe he was just interested in sharing this with Bree?

I think Frank knew exactly what he was doing.  And I really do hope that Diana does get around to writing that book "What Frank Knew."  She's mentioned it in interviews, and I think it would be fascinating!

Edited November 26, 2018 by Ziggy

[MartyQui]

Again, they missed the boat on Boston...the street that they showed is Acorn Street on Beacon Hill, one of the most photographed streets in the country, and not somewhere an undergrad at MIT would be living.  There must be stock footage of MIT around that they could have used.  Ugh.

[GHScorpiosRule]

3 hours ago, satrunrose said:

After DOA, I've always thought the books come down on the side of what happened in the past being fate. Claire was always going to choose Jamie and be in 177-whatever (it's too early in the morning for me to go digging for the date of the 'fire') so the notice was always there to find. 

 

1 hour ago, Ziggy said:

That's how I see it, too.  When she and Jamie were trying to stop Culloden, really, all of those events that they were a part of were the events of Culloden.  Claire was always a part of that.

I don't think Diana has made it 100% certain in her books (though I have not read them multiple times, so there is so much I don't remember), but I do not believe time travel in Outlander is like Back to the Future where events of the past can be changed.  I think events of the past always were.  Claire was always there in the years just before Culloden.  Claire was always there when Jamie founded Fraser's Ridge.

 

I understand what you are saying, but I keep coming up with this: and maybe I'm misremembering, and if that's so, then you can ignore this post. But I seem to recall, in the original timeline, if you will, that Jamie didn't survive the attack/wounds in Outlander. Claire showing up changed all that. So if she was always going to be there, as part of history, then he wouldn't have died, would he? See? Giving meself a headache. Now I needs to get back to work.

[morgan]

Acorn street didn’t bother me at all because I assume Bree had $$$ from her mother and father, the sale of the house, etc.  I guess I was just happy they showed something that actually was, or even looked like Boston as opposed to that complete anomaly that was supposed to be Harvard last year!

[Ziggy]

9 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

 

I understand what you are saying, but I keep coming up with this: and maybe I'm misremembering, and if that's so, then you can ignore this post. But I seem to recall, in the original timeline, if you will, that Jamie didn't survive the attack/wounds in Outlander. Claire showing up changed all that. So if she was always going to be there, as part of history, then he wouldn't have died, would he? See? Giving meself a headache. Now I needs to get back to work.

I did not know there was an “original timeline,” or anything that said Jamie didn’t survive that day. That would make me rethink everything! <mind blown>

10 minutes ago, morgan said:

Acorn street didn’t bother me at all because I assume Bree had $$$ from her mother and father, the sale of the house, etc.  I guess I was just happy they showed something that actually was, or even looked like Boston as opposed to that complete anomaly that was supposed to be Harvard last year!

I know nothing about Boston, but Gayle and Bree are both doctor’s daughters, so it seems safe to assume they could afford more.

Edited November 26, 2018 by Ziggy

[nodorothyparker]

I don't think it's so much an "original timeline" as much as a theory.  Because that's all these people are working with, a lot of observation and guesswork in determining how they think time travel works and in justifying taking or not taking certain actions because of possible fallout.  As much as the book characters originally wanted to treat Geillis's notebook of observations like a sort of bible, it's still just what she's observed, and as we know not exactly right about everything.  Especially as Roger and Bree and assorted other characters start mucking around in the different timelines they need some way that's understandable to them of explaining how they got where they are or in some cases, why people aren't always where they're supposed to be. 

The fact that leaving all of this so open to interpretation also leaves plenty of room for Gabaldon to later say "never mind" if she decides she wants to go a different way is just bonus for her.  It's one of the things my husband who's really into sci-fi time travel stories with set rules and clear cause and effect finds so maddening about this series.

But, you know, I'm still over here aggravated that a seemingly insignificant show-only change means kindly old Mrs. Graham was apparently sitting on information she really should have passed on to Claire at some point so she could make a fully informed choice.