The Starling City Times: News and Media about Arrow

[Chaser]

The network organizes the interviews not the EPs. The lack of interviews could be some type of strategy. They know adding BC isn't going to be meet with the greatest reception so they won't talk her up but they will give her the screen time. That could be their way of being subtle about it. Down the line when she gets her costume or is announced as a regular they release all the PR.

It is weird. WD feels like the shiny new toy from DC that they want to show off and everyone to love. He gets all the interviews and apparently him getting happy over a cheeseburger is more noteworthy than anything else that happened in 5x11. 

It makes me curious about what exactly the EPs were told by DC. 

You know, there is also the chance Gomez is just throwing a fit and is ignoring the new BC. Cause she's terrible at her job.

[lemotomato]

4 minutes ago, Chaser said:

You know, there is also the chance Gomez is just throwing a fit and is ignoring the new BC. Cause she's terrible at her job.

You're right, we've completely forgotten the Suzanne factor in the lack of PR. 

[Trisha]

19 hours ago, LeighAn said:

From skim reading the reviews it seems like in general the reviewers range from ambivalence about Tinah to active dislike. I think only Craig and IGN actually enjoyed Tinah and gave her a glowing review- coincidence?

The sites I think matter most are the mainstream ones like AV Club and TV Line because they have more visiblity/credibility (and we know the writers read them; BFS has tweeted about AVC ones in the past), and both sites loved 511. AVC didn't specifically gush about Tinah but loves the direction this show is going. TVL usually does more recaps than reviews but the writer was loving Tina and tweeting about how "dynamic" and "ambitious" the episode was.

It bums me out because I think the criticism would hit harder if it was coming from them instead of angry fans on Twitter. AVC did complain about the lack of Thea and Lance (calling them the "heart and soul" of the show), but that was a throwaway line at the end of the review. 

[apinknightmare]

The guy who writes reviews for AV Club would gush over anything. He's only given a grade lower than a B 5 times throughout the course of the show - 3 Cs in S1 (3, 15, 18), 1 C in S3 (6), and 1 C (14) in S4. He's loved the show through all the so-called course corrections over the years, so IDK what kind of influence that site has, if any. 

[Belinea]

I choose to believe that they always read reviews that they know are in favour of their show because the site gets something out of it. The rest...who knows whether or not they read that.

[kismet]

I also question TVline's motives and integrity because there seems to be an abundance of articles and praise for Arrow that feels a little disingenuous from time to time that makes me wonder if it is not bought. Or there is not some prearrangement for access or other things.

[MariaHill]

2 minutes ago, kismet said:

I also question TVline's motives and integrity because there seems to be an abundance of articles and praise for Arrow that feels a little disingenuous from time to time that makes me wonder if it is not bought. Or there is not some prearrangement for access or other things.

Isn't Matt Mitovich friends with Suzanne Gomez?

[statsgirl]

Matt Mitovich is also the person who put up the Chloe-kicking-Black-Canary's-butt-and-marrying-Oliver anniversary video.  I think it's pretty balanced there, he snarked at Rene

Spoiler

"And here's some news that probably not quite many people wanted. We're getting a Rene flashback episode

 but usually the reviews tend to the positive side because they like to get hits and comments, and positive reviews are more pleasant to read.

2 hours ago, apinknightmare said:

The guy who writes reviews for AV Club would gush over anything. He's only given a grade lower than a B 5 times throughout the course of the show - 3 Cs in S1 (3, 15, 18), 1 C in S3 (6), and 1 C (14) in S4. He's loved the show through all the so-called course corrections over the years, so IDK what kind of influence that site has, if any. 

It has mainstream media influence, even if he always grades the show highly. Mainstream carries more weight than specialized sites like Green ArrowTV or jbuffyangel's blog because they're seen to be more representative of the majority of they audience. And if he does grade it highly, they're even more likely to listen to him.  Iit's human nature.

Edited February 5, 2017 by statsgirl

[apinknightmare]

34 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

It has mainstream media influence, even if he always grades the show highly. Mainstread  carries more weight than specialized sites like Green ArrowTV or jbuffyangel's blog because they're seen to be more representative of the majority of they audience. And if he does grade it highly, they're even more likely to listen to him.  Iit's human nature.

But what are they listening to? He loves pretty much everything they do, and yet every off season it seems like they're out to fix what was wrong with the season before it. If the writer for AV Club has little to criticize and they're changing things anyway, there's not much influence there. 

But I guess if they are listening to the praise of a handful of reviewers despite sinking ratings, well...they get what they deserve. 

Edited February 5, 2017 by apinknightmare

[statsgirl]

I don't know who they're listening to, if anyone.  Hopefully focus groups at least.  But I suspect who they're not listening to are people like Robert Doherty at TMN who disliked so much about seasons 3 and 4 that he stopped reviewing the show now. As far as I can tell, he didn't make a bit of difference.

[kismet]

1 hour ago, statsgirl said:

Matt Mitovich is also the person who put up the Chloe-kicking-Black-Canary's-butt-and-marrying-Oliver anniversary video.  I think it's pretty balanced there, he snarked at Rene.

They are generally balanced in their articles on Arrow. I don't have anything wrong with their writing. But my point is that there are a lot of Arrow articles. It feels like everyday they have a new Arrow scoop. I just think for a neutral entertainment site, they are a little obsessed with Arrow. It could just be that they get a lot of access to Arrow, but my thoughts are there has to be some type of additional money & incentive for them to be writing about Arrow so much when other general TV websites are not. During the winter break, there was always a new headline, when there really wasn't much to report on. I can't imagine they get that much of a financial boost solely from the clicks to their Arrow coverage.

[statsgirl]

They get a ton of posts and clicks for Arrow items (especially seasons 2 - 4 when the Felicity vs Laurel debates hit over 200 comments regularly), and for OUaT and last year for Castle. ( When Cote de Pablo was still on NCIS, it was sooo busy.  Now there are just a handful of comments.)  Clicks = revenue so they're going to try to put up as many Arrow articles as they can and tease the controversy as much as they can. Same for the other Flarrowverse shows (e.g. the TV Line Debate over who should be Kara's love interest).

It also may be that MG and WM give them more access than some other showrunners do.

[kismet]

Money talks, and I think the CW throws TVline more than just clickbait for the amount of publicity that website gives the CW, especially Arrow.

[insomniadreams88]

TVLine also seems to get exclusive sneak peeks pretty often, I think for a lot of CW shows. 

[Trisha]

58 minutes ago, kismet said:

They are generally balanced in their articles on Arrow. I don't have anything wrong with their writing. But my point is that there are a lot of Arrow articles. It feels like everyday they have a new Arrow scoop. I just think for a neutral entertainment site, they are a little obsessed with Arrow. It could just be that they get a lot of access to Arrow, but my thoughts are there has to be some type of additional money & incentive for them to be writing about Arrow so much when other general TV websites are not. During the winter break, there was always a new headline, when there really wasn't much to report on. I can't imagine they get that much of a financial boost solely from the clicks to their Arrow coverage.

I used to work in a newsroom and analytics were huge. It didn't really affect the direction of hard news but sections like entertainment relied on Google Analytics and Comscore A LOT to determine what shows/movies to cover. I remember they started doing weekly online recaps of Grey's very late into that show's run because they realized that whenever they wrote about it, the hits would blow up. And pageviews equaled revenue.

I'm guessing TV Line has a handful of shows their research has shown attract audiences, so they try to write about them as much as they can. You see certain shows that they write about a lot (and they're usually long-running ones like TVD or OuaT, which aren't really being covered very much anymore by other sites, unlike say something critically acclaimed and trendy like Game of Thrones, which everyone covers so the competition for eyeballs is high). It's smart of them to go after that untapped audience.

Look, journalism is in the crapper right now (trust me), but mainstream editorial sites are probably not accepting kickbacks for coverage without marking it advertorial or sponsored. Do certain writers develop a rapport with showrunners over time and therefore have an easier time contacting them for quotes? Probably. But TVL is only covering the show because it benefits TVL. 

[EmilyBettFan]

3 hours ago, kismet said:

They are generally balanced in their articles on Arrow. I don't have anything wrong with their writing. But my point is that there are a lot of Arrow articles. It feels like everyday they have a new Arrow scoop. I just think for a neutral entertainment site, they are a little obsessed with Arrow. It could just be that they get a lot of access to Arrow, but my thoughts are there has to be some type of additional money & incentive for them to be writing about Arrow so much when other general TV websites are not. During the winter break, there was always a new headline, when there really wasn't much to report on. I can't imagine they get that much of a financial boost solely from the clicks to their Arrow coverage.

That site said they get scoop but they stretch it out over a period of time. I'm guessing they get scoop for a lot of characters and instead of posting all at once, they post it sporadically. 

[tv echo]

15 hours ago, statsgirl said:

They get a ton of posts and clicks for Arrow items (especially seasons 2 - 4 when the Felicity vs Laurel debates hit over 200 comments regularly), and for OUaT and last year for Castle. ( When Cote de Pablo was still on NCIS, it was sooo busy.  Now there are just a handful of comments.)  Clicks = revenue so they're going to try to put up as many Arrow articles as they can and tease the controversy as much as they can. Same for the other Flarrowverse shows (e.g. the TV Line Debate over who should be Kara's love interest).

I wonder if that is one of the reasons the Arrow EPs decided to introduce Tinah (aside from any DC/WB b-t-s motivations) - to increase social media buzz by restarting a new debate, but this time Felicity vs Tinah.

Edited February 6, 2017 by tv echo

[tv echo]

2012 flashback - this was apparently the "first look" preview promo that was released before the Arrow pilot debut (video posted by Grace Swetmon)...

[bijoux]

SA and KC look like a divorced couple who hate each other in that photo from what I'm assuming were the upfronts.

[ladylaw99]

Man I hated those voiceovers.  SA looks so young.  This saddens me a little, this show had so much potential.

[Featherhat]

2 hours ago, tv echo said:

I wonder if that is one of the reasons the Arrow EPs decided to introduce Tinah (aside from any DC/WB b-t-s motivations) - to increase social media buzz by restarting a new debate, but this time Felicity vs Tinah.

Possibly, ship wars do tend to create twitter/tumblr/other media buzz and generate clicks to websites and therefore more articles. I'm not sure they generate increased ratings though, and they also turn off the comic dudebros they've been courting lately who hate romance unless its someone there to tell GA how amazing he is and look sexy doing it. (Apprently that's why Reddit still can't stand Felicity, because "she tries to wear the pants on the team" and dares to disagree with the Hero) Sigh.

Edited February 6, 2017 by Featherhat
spelling and adding last line

[kismet]

I'm not really looking forward to any love triangles even if it for buzz. That being said, the more the show self-destructs and plays to its weakest elements the easier it becomes to walk away.

[mtlchick]

Look out for a tie in for the Lego Batman movie!

 

http://www.tvinsider.com/gallery/arrow-the-flash-supergirl-lego-billboards/#6

[wonderwall]

It seems as though that Earth 3 Craig has arrived...

[Guest]

Must be Opposite Day.

[lemotomato]

Even broken clocks are right twice a day.

[MariaHill]

Or he knows what gets page views. 

[Primal Slayer]

Obviously it's a case of

[wonderwall]

3 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

Obviously it's a case of

Um I think you took it one step too far here. Drugs aren't something to joke about. 

[Primal Slayer]

snorting air?

[tv echo]

‘Arrow’ Review: “Second Chances”
Nora Dominick   Feb. 6, 2017
http://emertainmentmonthly.com/index.php/arrow-review-second-chances/

Quote

The real spotlight this week is on Tina as Team Arrow tries to recruit her. A meta-human with an ability similar to the Canary Cry, Tina is the badass character Arrow is in desperate need of. While Felicity Smoak can hold her own with the best of them, more female characters were necessary and we’re VERY happy Juliana Harkavy is there to fill the void. Tina jumps right into the fold as she tries to avenge her CCPD partner’s death. She holds her own alongside Green Arrow, Wild Dog and Mr. Terrific and it’s a joy to watch. Harkavy brings the character to life with such fierceness, it’s hard not to love her from the moment she steps on screen. She’s a welcomed addition to the cast and we can’t wait to see her flesh out the character even more.

While we’re happy Tina is the new Black Canary, we almost wish they retire the mantle. Yes, it’s great to have Laurel’s legacy continue, but Tina (or as we later find out Dinah) deserves her own hero name. This Dinah will differ from Laurel and Sara Lance, who have both held the Canary mantle before, but we almost wish that it stayed a sacred Lance family moniker. That being said, we’re thrilled another female character will be suiting up in the Arrow Bunker alongside the boys. Harkavy will no doubt make the character her own as a new Canary suits up.
*  *  *
First of all, if we were to ever meet Felicity Smoak, we would also fangirl like this fan did. Second, Rickards is already showing signs of an incredible storyline with just the small glimpses we get in this episode. This will be a completely new journey for Rickards to explore and we are super excited to see her dive into it. While we love when Felicity is the comedic relief, a darker storyline will be the perfect place for Rickards to stretch her talents. We’re so excited for what’s to come.
*  *  *
The only disappointing thing in this episode is honestly the fact that Quentin (Paul Blackthorne) and Thea (Willa Holland) are all but absent. Two main characters and they’ve only been mentioned so far in the back half of season 5? It seems a bit odd to us. Both Blackthorne and Holland bring so much to the table and this season their storylines seem like they were thought up last minute. Quentin has been slapped in rehab while Thea hasn’t had a substantial plot line all season. While the new characters are great and we are starting to focus on them some more, we do wish Quentin and Thea became bigger roles on Arrow once again. We miss you both dearly.

Edited February 7, 2017 by tv echo

[tv echo]

TV Fanatic's 511 discussion is about what you would expect at that site...

Arrow Round Table: Welcome, Dinah Drake!
Paul Dailly at February 6, 2017 2:00 pm.
https://www.tvfanatic.com/2017/02/arrow-round-table-welcome-dinah-drake/

Quote

What did you think of Tina being Dinah Drake?
Steve: I must admit, I got chills when Tina said her real name is Dinah. Those who don't follow the show that well may have been a bit confused by that reveal. I loved it, and it basically solidified Tina's fate as taking the mantle from Laurel.

Jim: They are kind of working backwards... Because in the comics (golden age mostly) Dinah Drake became Dinah Drake Lance, who's daughter is Laurel Lance.... So, I got no idea where they are going now. 

Paul: It was a great twist, but the fake Laurel Lance return now feels more pointless. Granted, there will probably be more twists for us viewers as we get closer to the end of the season.
*  *  *
Discuss your thoughts on Felicity's fangirl moment. 
Steve: It's always great to inspire people, knowingly or not. I don't know how Felicity truly feels at that revelation, but it did work in her favor in obtaining the info on getting Diggle released, so she has to feel great about that.

Jim: She was like a little mini-Felicity it was so cute! I think it reminded Felicity of why she got in to hacking to begin with.

Paul: Felicity has never been my favorite character, but she’s been growing on me over the course of Arrow Season 5. The fangirl moment made me like her even more and I hope she works with Helix.
*  *  *
How long will Tina stick around?
Steve: Comic geek here, but being that Dinah Drake was the name of both the golden age and New 52 Black Canary, one can only assume that Tina will be around for a good while. Perhaps to the end of the series run.

Jim: Hopefully she is going to stay for good. I really like backstory and history of Dinah/Tina. She's a really nice balance for Oliver that should help him grow from student to teacher when it comes to fighting the darkness.

Though I will say her killing the bad guy while Oliver was trying to convince her not to, totally made it feel like a Deadpool scene. 

Paul: I want her to be a new regular. It’s about time the Black Canary was explored without the character dying.

Edited February 7, 2017 by tv echo

[ohjoy]

4 hours ago, tv echo said:

‘Arrow’ Review: “Second Chances”
Nora Dominick   Feb. 6, 2017
http://emertainmentmonthly.com/index.php/arrow-review-second-chances/

Quote

While we’re happy Tina is the new Black Canary, we almost wish they retire the mantle. Yes, it’s great to have Laurel’s legacy continue, but Tina (or as we later find out Dinah) deserves her own hero name.

 

This part makes me chuckle/groan, because while naming her Dinah Drake apparently gives her every right to the BC name (#BecauseComics), what she really deserved was her own origin story. I don't mean the origin story where she got her cry in a traumatic event and lost a loved one for whom she tries to be a better person. I mean the origin story where she met and joined up with Oliver, not because of any organic happenstance, but because he was searching her out specifically and solely to fill in the role of a different dead "hero". If Laurel weren't dead and Oliver somehow developed the creepy obsession with "honoring her legacy" by replacing her with as close a match as possible (BS didn't want the job, so he had to find someone else, but not any of the people who clearly too good for the role), he would never have given Tinah a second glance. Some special origin for the great GA/BC dynamic duo, that is. (Although the more I think about it, this is a pretty on-point continuation of "Laurel's" legacy, so good catch there.)

Edited February 7, 2017 by RandomMe
commas happen (and sometimes they don't)

[Belinea]

Double post for some reason

Edited February 7, 2017 by Belinea

[Belinea]

6 hours ago, tv echo said:

Steve: Comic geek here, but being that Dinah Drake was the name of both the golden age and New 52 Black Canary, one can only assume that Tina will be around for a good while. Perhaps to the end of the series run.

Don't even put it out there.

[BunsenBurner]

So is Tina / Dinah Drake going to marry 'Larry' Quinton Lance?

[bijoux]

[Starfish35]

TVLine: Arrow Recap: From Russia, With Not a Whole Lot of Love

Check out Matt's comment in the comments section. :)

[apinknightmare]

1 minute ago, Starfish35 said:

TVLine: Arrow Recap: From Russia, With Not a Whole Lot of Love

Check out Matt's comment in the comments section. :)

Oh my god, why am I not surprised. 

[Chaser]

That's hilarious. 

[calliope1975]

7 minutes ago, Starfish35 said:

TVLine: Arrow Recap: From Russia, With Not a Whole Lot of Love

Check out Matt's comment in the comments section. :)

Bwah! Oh TIIC, stay true to what those initials stand for. Always betting on the wrong horse.

[apinknightmare]

[BkWurm1]

Now I'm wondering if in part they wrote in Rory with his magic rags as a place holder/warm up for the meta Tinah.  Like they'd get all the objections about powers not being grounded or real out with him and then when Tinah came, ship him off so that they could trick the audience into not complaining about still being left with a person with powers on Team Arrow.  

[ladylaw99]

Too bad I prefer Rory over Tina any day

[Chaser]

I'd keep Rory over any newbie.

[kismet]

But powers are part of the comics with BC, so isn't this just part of the natural trajectory for that character?

I mean I get people being upset because the show has evolved. I just don't think the writers care. They seem to be on a comics kick this year, so I doubt any complaints will reach them about not be grounded. And the Flarrowverse seems to prioritize comics over realism these days.

[dtissagirl]

7 hours ago, Starfish35 said:

TVLine: Arrow Recap: From Russia, With Not a Whole Lot of Love

Check out Matt's comment in the comments section. :)

Oh my lord if this doesn't encapsulate everything I think of the Arrow writers room. Poor Oliver. He really has a super bad case of the blind leading the blind. No wonder he's so dumb.

[tv echo]

‘Arrow’ recap: 'Bratva’
SARA NETZLEY FEBRUARY 8, 2017 
http://ew.com/recap/arrow-season-5-episode-12/

Quote

Now, to the present. Ugh. Reporter Susan’s back after the show forgot about her for a couple of weeks. She info-dumps that she and Oliver haven’t slept together yet.
*  *  *
Blackmail may not be a good look for her, but that dress/hair/makeup combo certainly is.  Curtis and Rory are the least threatening Bratva ever, though.
*  *  *
There’s more team tension elsewhere, as Rory calls out Felicity for her blackmail. He also gets her to admit that the data cache is beyond massive and gives her the non-Marvel equivalent of what his dad told him when he gave him the rags: With great (DC) power comes great (DC) responsibility.
*  *  *
Oliver grabs Dinah for their covert Bratva mission, which turns out to be a quick little jaunt involving machine guns, tossing a guy through a window, ordering him to shut down his business, and breaking two fingers. Back in the van, Dinah observes that this isn’t the first time Oliver’s been a thug. She also says that even though the team told her to ignore him when he gets in his one of his moods, she’s not going to do that. “To be honest, brooding gets on my nerves.” Oh, dear. You might be on the wrong team, Dinah.

Oliver reiterates one of the themes of the season: He’s trying so hard to move forward and be better, but Russia’s pulling him back to his old ways. Dinah tells him to snap out of it. Prometheus is in his head about infecting the people close to him, and she points out that sure, you “infect” the people in your life. That’s called living.

She insists that he’s more than just his fists. “Your past is a part of you,” she says, “but it doesn’t mean it has to be your anchor.” Guys, I like her. More of this, please.

Then we get to the best scene of the night. When John and Felicity realize how Oliver got the information about Walker’s location, Oliver tells them he’d rather be the one to cross that line, not either of them. Felicity argues that he taught them that sometimes, you have to get a little dirty to get things done, but Oliver disagrees.

“I need the two of you to be better than me. Because you are. That’s why we work together.” Oh, man. The love that leads a man to step into his hated past to keep his friends’ souls clean? It’s gorgeous and sad and exactly what Arrow does best.
*  *  *
John and Oliver have a sidebar, and John tells Oliver that in fact, he and Felicity aren’t any better than Oliver. “You, me, Felicity? We make each other better.” Ah, but Anatoly also has a claim on Oliver, reminding him that his oath to Bratva is for life. Wonder if we’ll see that wrinkle pop back up at some point this season?

Aaaand we’re back in Star City, where apparently all that fresh Russian air convinced Oliver to sleep with Susan. During the post-coital snuggle, he says it’s actually because he didn’t want his past to keep him from moving forward with her. She runs her fingers over his scars and chest tattoo, but he declines to tell her any details, putting her off with a “someday.” Ugh, hate this. Please please please make her actually evil and not misunderstood or whatever.

Unfortunately, Rory’s stop-the-nuke plan seems to have killed the magic in his rags, which no longer offer any protection. Since he’s a liability when he’s powerless, he’s taking off for parts unknown. He tells Felicity he’ll be back, though. And as she turns to leave, she gets a text from her hacker buddy, encouraging her to keep digging into the Pandora data cache. Felicity replies in the affirmative. Darker and darker, Miss Smoak.
*  *  *
The writers have been great about weaving Rory’s Jewish faith into the episodes. It’s there, we know it’s a part of his character, and we see how it helps him approach crime-fighting, problem-solving, and people-saving. I hope he has some way to power up his rags and get back to the team soon.

Edited February 9, 2017 by tv echo

[ComicFan777]

Personally, I think Felicity blackmailing a bad guy to get info about a nuke location to save millions of lives is actually a really good look on Felicity. 

Edited February 9, 2017 by ComicFan777

[LeighAn]

I like that line about Olivers love for Diggle and Felicity would have him rather dirty his own soul then ruin theirs. It's a twisted form of affection but it fits Oliver. And Im hoping it leads to a "this all began with the three of us. It's time we got back to that" reaffirmation of OTA and their friendship once they all collectively come out the other side of Prometheus manipulations. 

And hopefully they can so no thanks nobodycarewbies  like they did Laurel.