tv echo January 28, 2017 Share January 28, 2017 (edited) We Need Arrow’s “Olicity” Back Together — Now. Rachel Carter - JANUARY 27, 2017http://booktrib.com/2017/01/we-need-arrows-olicity-back-together-now/ Quote We’ve made no secret of our fervent love of Arrow’s favorite couple “Olicity” here at BookTrib. So this season, with Oliver Queen (Stephen Amell) and Felicity Smoak (Emily Bett Rickards) separated, we’re having major romance withdrawals. It doesn’t help matters that there seems to be a large divide in the fandom surrounding the couple. True “comic book fans” are rejoicing in the fact that Arrow’s focus is off the unconventional romance, while Olicity fans are bemoaning the lack of screen time devoted to the chemistry-laden duo. The producers are even weighing in, with creator Mark Guggenheim vocally regretting how quickly he moved their romance along in season 4. And while we definitely think certain storylines could have been handled better last season (*cough* secret love child *cough*), it’s hard not to miss the good ol’ days of lair-flirting and loft make outs. When Olicity was together in the early parts of season 4, we all saw how successful their relationship could be: filled with respect, understanding and a maturity that is rare in on-screen couples. Then the show threw contrived drama their way, tainting what was otherwise a healthy and promising relationship. * * * At its core, Arrow is Oliver Queen’s origin story, from playboy billionaire to well-rounded vigilante. Over the years we’ve watched Oliver slowly, painstakingly try and overcome his trauma and guilt in order to become the Green Arrow. He’s not quite there yet, but he’s getting closer. Initially, fans thought that Laurel, The Black Canary, would be by his side throughout. But when it became clear that the chemistry between Amell and Cassidy resembled that of a dead fish, producers scrambled for an alternative romantic choice. That came in the form of the IT girl who made Amell’s face light up. Since season 3 — and, arguably, even season 2 — Felicity has been Oliver’s sole romantic interest. (Let’s just ignore all this recent Susan nonsense.) * * * Last year, certain fans claimed that Olicity was killing Arrow and that the pairing was to blame for the dip in the ratings. And sure, the ratings went down a little in season 4, particularly after Laurel was killed off. But the premiere of season 5 was a massive 36% lower than the season 4 premiere. It’s a huge gap in ratings, especially when you consider the fact that season 4 opened with Olicity happy, in love, and making out in their kitchen. * * * It’s not like Olicity fans just sprang up out of nowhere, one day convening on Tumblr to share their far-fetched fantasies of badass Oliver ending up with his nerdy tech sidekick. No, Olicity started with chemistry, with the way Amell and Bett Rickards made moon eyes at each other in every scene, with the way Oliver could barely contain his smile every time the blonde babbled away. As they progressed to friendship, so did their chemistry, until it just made sense for them to be together. Now that their relationship history is filled with lies, hurt feelings and dead boyfriends, things are a lot more complicated. But it’s not like that chemistry has just disappeared. Even as friends, they sparkle in every scene together, and the show clearly knows it, too.... * * * We’ve never seen Oliver smile as much as he did at the start of season 4 when he was happy and in love. Of course, we all know that he wasn’t truly complete — he needs to embrace his Green Arrow side for that to be the case — but it was an eye-opening revelation. Oliver needs Felicity. She’s his light. There’s a reason they were the only two left standing at the end of last season: even as friends, they need each other in order to survive. When Oliver dips too far into darkness, or pushes the new recruits too hard, it’s Felicity who pulls him back. They’re more effective as a team, which is why we’ll always be rooting for these two to get back together. 1. It Makes Sense for the Story 2. The Ratings 3. Oliver Just Can’t Forget Her 4. That Chemistry! 5. They Make Each Other Better Edited January 28, 2017 by tv echo 6 Link to comment
kismet January 28, 2017 Share January 28, 2017 (edited) I think s3 was FS weepy season, wasn't there commentary about her crying a lot? I don't remember her crying much in s4 at all. Just a handful of times when absolutely appropriate. And it wasn't even crying then, it was more misty eyes. But some people are sensitive to tears in general. Seriously, people do watch shows differently. I did pick up on a OQ/BS/FS love triangle but that was because they kept on having BS make disparaging remarks about O/F relationship, O/F had their usual chemistry, and people just want their couple back together. Sadly for L/O I don't think that day will ever come, but they keep hoping. O/F I think will eventually get back together, the wait might be excruciating, but the day will come. There really was no in show need for BS's comments, but I think the writers couldn't help themselves. Petty, snarky pseudo-LL was there to say all the things saintly/sober LL was not allowed to say. I think it was supposed to come off as the show taking shots at itself like LoT does, but per usual Arrow writers have some trouble with forced humor. Edited January 28, 2017 by kismet 1 Link to comment
ComicFan777 January 28, 2017 Share January 28, 2017 (edited) But how does it make a love triangle if BS is making fun of O/F? Confused... Edited January 28, 2017 by ComicFan777 2 Link to comment
looptab January 28, 2017 Share January 28, 2017 Aside, I do love the different ways people describe the lack of chemistry between Stephen and KC. Memorable analogies from every corner, haha. 9 Link to comment
tv echo January 28, 2017 Share January 28, 2017 Natalie Abrams' comments on 510... Arrow ushers in new Black Canary as Laurel's true fate revealed NATALIE ABRAMS JANUARY 25, 2017 AT 9:04PM ESThttp://ew.com/tv/2017/01/25/arrow-laurel-black-canary/ Quote However, E-2 Laurel claimed she only acted against them because Prometheus was threatening her life. In fact, it was Earth-2 Oliver’s death that eventually led her down this dark path, with Laurel revealing a rare vulnerable side to the doppelgänger of the man she used to love. Even so, she still makes a move to kill Felicity and is subsequently locked up in a secure A.R.G.U.S. facility by episode’s end. The fleeting softness speaks to what executive producer Marc Guggenheim teased about their long-term Laurel plans after a recent promo seemed to spill the Laurel reveal in advance. “The episode ends with laying a very specific seed with a very specific game plan on our part that we hope to see come to fruition,” Guggenheim said. Could this mean E-2 Laurel may be redeemed down the line and eventually rejoin the team? That’s TBD. * * * Lest we forget, the season premiere revealed Laurel’s last words before her death: She pleaded with Oliver to make sure she wasn’t the last Black Canary — that way, a part of her will always be out there with him. At the time, Guggenheim hedged on whether there would be a new Canary, “Who knows? Totally possible.” But Black Canary’s legacy has certainly played a large role this season, with Star City even erecting a statue in her honor — maybe that’s what inspired Tina, you know, before Earth-2 Laurel destroyed it? Link to comment
kismet January 28, 2017 Share January 28, 2017 (edited) 22 minutes ago, ComicFan777 said: But how does it make a love triangle if BS is making fun of O/F? Confused... Because they had BS mention the failed romance, it made it seem like she was pining for it. They also had BS wax poetically about how much she loves OQ, but he's been dead for 10y and now she is being imprisoned by his doppelganger. And how hard that has been for her to lose the love of her life, but have to be looking at him now. The only thing standing in her way is FS. Because its obvious that OQ still cares for FS. It's why Promethus got away in the end, he forced OQ to choose between stopping him and stopping BS from killing FS. As well as OQ need to redeem her because of circumstance. I read it as guilt over her death and not being her friend. But in the mind of someone who wants a LL to be with OQ, than there could be some remaining romantic love inspiring that choice. They had enough romantic beats, that people who wanted to see them can see them. Because if the team redeems BS, then perhaps their is a chance for her to romantically reunite with OQ in this earth. It's very fan fiction. But honestly, watching this episode felt like reading a fan fiction at times when it came to BS. The episode for all its high points read like a fan fiction. Also humor sometimes comes from jealousy, and jealousy fuels love triangles. Edited January 28, 2017 by kismet 1 Link to comment
Sunshine January 28, 2017 Share January 28, 2017 BS was speaking on behalf of the because comics* and/or L/O shippers. Felicity was speaking on behalf of the show and/or F/O shippers. Felicity got to deliver the knockout punch. I did find the comment that maybe Felicity wasn't tall enough quite humorous. I know some love the height difference but I wondered if there had been disparaging remarks about her height by those who hate F & F/O. If you look at it that way I can see a BS/O/F triangle. *The people who use that reasoning not necessarily comics readers. 1 Link to comment
tv echo January 28, 2017 Share January 28, 2017 (edited) 'Arrow' Recap: Can the Team Trust the Return of Laurel Lance? Derek Stauffer January 25, 2017http://www.buddytv.com/articles/arrow/arrow-winter-premiere-recap-th-62959.aspx Quote The "good stuff" being that the "Earth-2" Laurel immediately sinks her hooks into Ollie and it's actually pretty entertaining to watch. Katie Cassidy clearly has far more fun playing the bad girl version of Laurel, than the original vanilla version. Even though Oliver knows this Laurel is "evil" he is determined to help her. Black Siren tells Oliver that Prometheus is pressuring her to fight with him under threat of death. This appeals to all of Oliver's needs to be the protector. Laurel's story seems like a half-truth at best, and rightfully, Felicity refuses to believe her. Black Siren becomes the reason for Oliver and Felicity to yell at one another for an entire episode. * * * This is a lot better than it sounds because the roles are reversed for once. It is Oliver who is arguing for more lenience and kindness and Felicity who is more militant, ruthless and kind of a gigantic jerk. Felicity's zero Black Siren tolerance policy isn't really surprising because the new-ish Laurel makes no effort to hide her evil nature around Felicity. Arrow also tells us this new Laurel is bad by giving her a septum piercing. (It's very stupid.) Black Siren does get a bit short-shrifted in the episode, but it is still nice to see Felicity and Oliver at odds over something substantial. Their argument has nothing to do with their lingering romantic angst and everything to do with differing personalities. Also dark ruthlessness is a shade that looks pretty good on Felicity. * * * Luckily, all the way in Hub City, wherever that may be, there is a woman. A woman who has a real big issue with men sexually harassing women and a metahuman power of a sonic scream. Well folks, I guess we have a new Black Canary, whoever this lady is supposed to be! (Personally, I'd like to see Arrow work on redeeming Black Siren and ridding her of horrid septum piercing rather than promoting this no-name sonic screamer, but baby steps. A Black Canary is better than no Black Canary, I suppose.) Why Black Siren Should Be the New Black Canary on 'Arrow' Derek Stauffer January 26, 2017http://www.buddytv.com/articles/arrow/why-black-siren-should-be-the-62964.aspx Quote The desire to see Black Siren become Black Canary has nothing to do with the comics' influence. It's true that character of Black Canary has almost always been a version of Dinah Laurel Lance in the comics. It is simply a far more streamlined, interesting and compelling story for Arrow to redeem Earth-2 Laurel than to bring a whole new character into the mix. Oliver trying to redeem the Black Siren works far better for the show's theme of legacy this season than introducing a brand new character. In many ways, Black Siren could even be better a Black Canary than the original Laurel. Arrow has never really treated the name of Black Canary as sacred to the character of Laurel. The original Black Canary is most definitely Sara Lance, even if she only went by the name of Canary, and Sara was a far superior Black Canary to her older sister. Sara had a grit and hard edge that Laurel never really managed to emulate. Laurel had trouble in her past before she became the Black Canary but she never felt as threatening as the other members of Team Arrow. * * * In "Who Are You?" the new Laurel was definitely trying to manipulate Oliver at every opportunity. Yet there was enough in Katie Cassidy's performance to suggest that Laurel wasn't being entirely untruthful in her manipulations. It does genuinely seem like Laurel was deeply in love with the Oliver Queen of Earth-2 and it was his death that sent her down a dark path. Even though Black Siren claimed in her last scene of "Who Are You?" that a kinder and more sympathetic Laurel never existed, that was all bravado. There is more than a shred of humanity left within the Black Siren. * * * It would be so much more interesting for Oliver, who has struggled with his own inner darkness and come out the other side a more positive person, to do the same for the Black Siren. Season 5 has echoed season 1 in big ways and small ones but Oliver trying to redeem an "evil" Laurel would be the perfect way to bring things full circle. The original Laurel, along with Tommy, was always one of Oliver's most ardent critics in season 1. Oliver trying to bring Black Siren back into the light would honor Laurel's memory far more than just recruiting a random woman who, seemingly, has no connection to Laurel or anyone else from Team Arrow. Edited January 28, 2017 by tv echo Link to comment
Chaser January 28, 2017 Share January 28, 2017 MG plants seeds for BS redemption arc. Ratings come back. How about them Dodgers? Link to comment
tv echo January 28, 2017 Share January 28, 2017 (edited) Back from the Dead: Arrow 5x10 Olicity Heart-to-Heart MARILYN PORTER January 26, 2017http://www.heroesandheartbreakers.com/blogs/2017/01/arrow-season-5-episode-10-olicity-heart-to-heart Quote Well. Color me impressed. This episode revolved around Olicity, much like 5x02 had earlier this season. Their scenes crackled with chemistry and there were multiple times I thought, “oh my god, are they going to kiss?” I know things will heat up with Susan before too long, so my expectations are tempered. But this is great evidence that the spark is there and that they are both feeling it. That spark can only be ignored for so long before it grows into a full-blown fire. Arrow 5x10 Review: "Who Are You?" (I Really Wanna Know) Just About Write Jan. 27, 2017http://www.itsjustaboutwrite.com/2017/01/arrow-5x10-review-who-are-you-i-really.html Quote Dear Arrow writers, I missed this Felicity Smoak. Give me more of her, please. And sprinkle in some more darkness so that Emily Bett Rickards can continue to shine. Love, me. But seriously, friends, I think that this is the first episode in a while in which I've really felt like Felicity was well-rounded and on a good trajectory for the rest of the season. Picking up where I last left off though, Felicity actually begins to let recklessness infiltrate her life in this episode. When Black Siren and Oliver have a meet-up — with the rest of the team standing by in case he needs back-up — Felicity makes an executive decision to take down the female villain when it appears she might be a threat. Make no mistake about it, Felicity knew that Black Siren probably wasn't about to attack Oliver. But she needs an outlet to channel her grief and anger into, and currently it's this. Why, you ask? Because when you feel helpless, there's nothing that you crave more than a little bit of power. * * * I'll make this short and sweet: I need more Oliver/Felicity scenes like the ones in this episode if I'm ever to believe that these two crazy kids can make it work. I need Oliver being the hopeful one, and Felicity delving into darkness. I need them to challenge each other, to fight and then walk away (but stay in the same room). I need Oliver to be upfront about his crusades, and for Felicity to tell him when they're not working. I need Felicity to push Oliver to become better, and I need them to teach one another things constantly — to never stop learning, because that builds a relationship whose cornerstone is trust. If this continues — which I know will be short-lived since Annoying Reporter Chick is still existing, after all — I might finally return to being aboard the Oliver/Felicity train. Until then, I'll sit back and hope that Oliver is beginning to learn his lessons. Overall, "Who Are You?" felt like it resolved a number of loose strings while also giving us new threads to tug at (do we really need someone filling the Black Canary role, show? And what is Prometheus' actual endgame here?). But as far as episodes are concerned, this one actually managed to hit the mark. Kudos, show! Don't make this short-lived for me. * * * I'm a huge fan of evil!Laurel (also known as Black Siren). She's a lot more fun, for me anyway, than regular Laurel Lance. * * * Rory remains the cutest and the best character for levity at the moment. * * * Felicity got to punch Black Siren, which is officially awesome. Edited January 28, 2017 by tv echo 1 Link to comment
tv echo January 28, 2017 Share January 28, 2017 (edited) I missed finding this article last December... The Arrow Writers’ Felicity Amnesia Annie Worsman December 17, 2016http://talknerdywithus.com/2016/12/17/the-arrow-writers-felicity-amnesia/ Quote In a recent TV Line article, Arrow producer Marc Guggenheim explains that because of Billy’s death in the fall finale and Prometheus’s manipulation of Oliver, Felicity will be taken “to a darker place” in her fight against Prometheus.* This is fine. I love the lightheartedness of Felicity in an otherwise dark show, but I don’t particularly have a problem with the writers giving her a darker story line. I do, however, have a problem with the origin of her darkness. Ex-fiance accidentally killing your current boyfriend is a pretty good reason for anyone to be angry, but I can’t quite buy it when it comes to Felicity. Felicity is no stranger to death, tragedy, and sorrow, so it’s going to take some work for me to believe that this event could really push her over the edge more so than any of her previous tragic events. It seems more likely that the writers have amnesia toward all things Felicity. First, Billy is not the first of Felicity’s boyfriends to die. In fact, all of Felicity’s boyfriends or lovers (sounds creepy no matter how you say it) have died (or, at least ended up in a coma, if you count Barry). College boyfriend Cooper commits suicide in prison. Oliver fights Ra’s al Ghul, gets stabbed with a sword, and thrown off a mountain. Ray is in his office when it explodes, etc. * * * So perhaps it’s the fact that Prometheus manipulated Oliver into killing him that gives her the push. Although, it’s not the first time Felicity believed Oliver was manipulated into doing horrible things. Or did the writers just completely forget that Oliver stayed with the League of Assassins and seemed to actually become Al Sah-him right after sleeping with Felicity for the first time? I realize that he was playing a part, but eventually, Felicity wasn’t so sure that was true, and yet she still didn’t dive into the darkness in order to bring down Ra’s al Ghul. * * * Perhaps it is the tragedy of the combination. I will admit that this is the first time Felicity has had an ex unknowingly shoot arrows into her current love interest but death, heartache, and tragedy seems to be par for the course for Felicity. Her father leaves her. Her first love is arrested and then kills himself. She only finds one of the earthquake devices in time, and half the Glades is destroyed. She is shot and paralyzed. She breaks up with her fiance after he lies to her about having a son. She couldn’t stop a nuclear bomb and had to choose what city to send it to. (Speaking of amnesia, did that actually happen? Because the only time we see Felicity dealing with the burden of her choice is when Rory joins the team.) Her track record with pain makes me think she is more likely to go dark because of something good actually happening and lasting rather than something bad. She’s used to bad. I’d ask the writers to give the poor girl a break, but they I don’t think they would remember what she needs a break from. Edited January 28, 2017 by tv echo 5 Link to comment
tv echo January 28, 2017 Share January 28, 2017 ‘Arrow’ Review: “Who Are You?” Yvonne January 27, 2017http://www.theworkprint.com/arrow-review-who-are-you/123 Quote Hold on– did I just miss something? Oliver Queen– the same Oliver Queen who shot Barry in the back for not canvassing an area before a fight–the same Oliver Queen who’s ridiculously untrusting and suspicious of everyone because of “5 years on an island”, immediately believed that the person who was dead for half a year has come back? In fact, the second he learns Laurel is back, he decides to throw a party. Rubbing it on thickly, now are we? It sometimes seems to me that Oliver Queen is whoever he needs to be to fit with the plot. I don’t enjoy watching a show where the lead character has a very abstract personality; it makes things too hard to decipher and predict. * * *Felicity was honestly the only normal character in the episode. * * * Later, Black Siren reveals that she only turned onto a darker path the moment her lover, Oliver Queen, died on the Queen’s Gambit, which mind you, is the actual plotline of Earth-2. Her heartbreak made her become the villain. And hell, if this part of the episode didn’t hit me hard. Black Siren was Laurel Lance, just as Black Canary was too. The circumstances of her life were similar to that of Earth-1 Laurel, except for what happened on the yacht. Sorry if this is getting confusing. I can call Earth-2 Laurel, “Fred,” if you want. * * *The recurring theme of this episode was how someone’s path could go different ways depending on the way their lives go. * * * Little to no mention about the fact that Billy Malone died like yesterday by Oliver’s hand. 2 Link to comment
tv echo January 28, 2017 Share January 28, 2017 (edited) Allison Brennan and Lavinia Kent analyze 'Arrow' episode 'Who are you?': Another gut-twisting hour By: Allison Brennan and Lavinia Kent | January 27, 2017 6:00 pmhttp://happyeverafter.usatoday.com/2017/01/27/allison-brennan-lavinia-kent-arrow-recap-who-are-you/ Quote AB: I’ll admit, I’m glad they didn’t prolong the unveiling of Evil Laurel from Earth 2. They integrated it fairly seamlessly, though I’m hoping they don’t rely on the other D.C. shows for wild plot/character development (i.e. Diggle had a girl, now he has a boy). Though, I’m not 100% certain I buy into Oliver wanting to save the Black Siren, that she’s “still Laurel” from another world. I definitely see Felicity wanting to take her down, because she’s betraying Laurel’s memory, but I expected a little less emotion from Oliver. LK: I didn’t have a problem with Oliver wanting to believe. I did have a problem with how naïve he seemed about it. Yes, we understand his feelings, but … * * *AB: The climax fight scene was fabulously choreographed — I expect nothing less from Arrow — though a bit predictable. Curtis overcomes his hang-ups and self-doubt and saves the day. Blah. Blah. I loved Felicity hitting Black Siren and then having to ice her aching hand. Classic Felicity. Oh! And the single best thing that the Black Siren did? Breaking that awful statue of Laurel as the Black Canary. Oliver said, “I think we can do better.” Yes! At least the writers acknowledged that they had a big mistake sitting there on the docks, LOL. LK: I actually cheered when they broke the statue. It’s bothered me from the very beginning. It was just so UGLY. And Felicity’s punch was great. I love it that she gets tough-girl moments without ever coming close to actually being a superhero. I have mixed feelings about Oliver deciding to keep Black Siren at ARGUS instead of sending her back to Star Labs. I do like her as a character (in small doses) but I really don’t want any type of story line of Oliver trying to redeem her. There are just so many other things I’d like the writers to concentrate on — as the last five minutes of this episode demonstrate. * * *AB: I’m excited to have a new, strong female character on the show. After Evelyn self-destructed into a traitor, it was pretty clear that the three guy recruits were lacking. We need a great character like we had in Sarah as the White Canary, who I think was the last really great female kick-ass character on the show. I mean, I loved Thea as Speedy, and Laurel in season four was the strongest Laurel in the entire series, but Sarah had that added something that made me miss her a lot when she was gone. Edited January 28, 2017 by tv echo 1 Link to comment
statsgirl January 29, 2017 Share January 29, 2017 I really like the concept of Felicity Amnesia. I'd forgotten how much I like her writing. It's hilarious all the bad things that have happened to Felicity's boyfriends. On the other hand, there's Natalie Abrams: 8 hours ago, tv echo said: However, E-2 Laurel claimed she only acted against them because Prometheus was threatening her life. In fact, it was Earth-2 Oliver’s death that eventually led her down this dark path, with Laurel revealing a rare vulnerable side to the doppelgänger of the man she used to love. Even so, she still makes a move to kill Felicity Even so? She's blocked out BS telling Prometheus he should have let her kill them all. I love how the parts where BS is playing Oliver is canon to her as the real truth. 8 hours ago, tv echo said: Black Siren becomes the reason for Oliver and Felicity to yell at one another for an entire episode. Derek, dear, where did you see yelling? I saw lots of conflict but unlike Oliver/Laurel, it was handled by two adults. 5 Link to comment
tv echo January 29, 2017 Share January 29, 2017 (edited) You might get a kick out of reading this article, which was apparently written before the writer watched 510 (in case you're wondering, this same writer was anti-Felicity/anti-Olicity in an April 30, 2013 TV Guide article) - you can put this in the category of "Are We Watching the Same Show?"... Arrow: Everything to Know About Laurel's Return by Sadie Gennis | Jan 25, 2017 10:55 AM ESThttp://www.tvguide.com/news/arrow-laurel-lance-black-siren/?ftag=TVG_Twitter Quote This season of Arrow is all about Oliver struggling to move forward, as his new motto -- "the shark that does not swim, drowns" -- makes abundantly clear. And the biggest thing holding Oliver back right now is his feelings over Laurel's death. It's why he started killing again. It's why he began going on missions alone. And ultimately, it's why he accidentally killed Det. Malone (Tyler Ritter). Therefore, it's likely that this season will end with Oliver learning to let go of his grief over Earth-1 Laurel and embrace moving forward -- an epiphany Earth-2 Laurel could come to represent. But that's only scratching the surface of all the interesting ways Earth-2 Laurel and Oliver's relationship could go. It would really be a shame if she left too soon to give this new dynamic its due. She might become the next Black Canary: Other than Oliver Queen, the Black Canary is the most important figure in the Green Arrow canon. That's why it's inconceivable that we'll never see another Black Canary in this world again. However, it's also inconceivable that we see anyone other than Laurel Lance take on the Black Canary mantle. The show has given us other Canaries, including Sara (Caity Lotz) as Canary/White Canary and Evelyn's brief impersonation of the Black Canary. But the Black Canary isn't just a title that anyone can pick up. It's intrinsically tied to Laurel Lance, the same way Green Arrow is tied to Oliver Queen (which is might be why Connor Hawke never really took off). That's why it's highly likely that this season might see the redemption of the Black Siren, leading to her eventually becoming the Black Canary -- a new, edgier and metahuman version of the one we saw before. This could also prove to be an opportunity for the show to redeem itself regarding its treatment of Earth-1 Laurel, who was often sidelined and never allowed to live up to her full potential. Edited January 29, 2017 by tv echo 1 Link to comment
CooperTV January 29, 2017 Share January 29, 2017 29 minutes ago, tv echo said: That's why it's highly likely that this season might see the redemption of the Black Siren, leading to her eventually becoming the Black Canary I have news for you, buddy. 17 Link to comment
LeighAn January 29, 2017 Share January 29, 2017 How exactly are Olivers "feelings for Laurel" the reason he killed Malone? Stretching honey. Also wow haha she hated Felicity/Olicity back in 2013/season 1 that's commitment! 4 Link to comment
statsgirl January 30, 2017 Share January 30, 2017 But of course Oliver was so devastated that Laurel died that he regressed five years and returned to killing! Doubtless Laurel 2 will save him. Maybe they can give up killing together. I'm impressed at how well Natalie Abrams defended Felicity back in 2013. Was it the realization that Oliver/Laurel isn't going to be end game the reason she turned? Link to comment
kismet January 30, 2017 Share January 30, 2017 (edited) That is a stretch... I mean it's possible to link it. OQ goes on missions. Missions lead to deaths. There is a cause & effect, but certainly I don't think LL's death was ever a reason behind Malone's death. But at least the author's beliefs are consistent. However, it will be interesting to see how the show handles the Comic and LL diehard crew that believe the BC title can only belong to her. Because I don't think a Black Siren redemption arc is the solution to anything, nor do I think it is this show's plans or in its wheelhouse. Edited January 30, 2017 by kismet 1 Link to comment
LeighAn January 30, 2017 Share January 30, 2017 7 minutes ago, statsgirl said: But of course Oliver was so devastated that Laurel died that he regressed five years and returned to killing! Doubtless Laurel 2 will save him. Maybe they can give up killing together. I'm impressed at how well Natalie Abrams defended Felicity back in 2013. Was it the realization that Oliver/Laurel isn't going to be end game the reason she turned? Does Natalie Abrams not like Felicity? I'm not really familiar with her preferences. Although judging by her comments it sounds like she didn't object to Felicity in principal as long as it was established that Felicity was not the right choice because comics. Link to comment
statsgirl January 30, 2017 Share January 30, 2017 She's very much a LL/KC fan. In her review of Who Are You? she wrote Quote However, E-2 Laurel claimed she only acted against them because Prometheus was threatening her life. In fact, it was Earth-2 Oliver’s death that eventually led her down this dark path, with Laurel revealing a rare vulnerable side to the doppelgänger of the man she used to love. Even so, she still makes a move to kill Felicity and is subsequently locked up in a secure A.R.G.U.S. facility by episode’s end. The fleeting softness speaks to what executive producer Marc Guggenheim teased about their long-term Laurel plans after a recent promo seemed to spill the Laurel reveal in advance. “The episode ends with laying a very specific seed with a very specific game plan on our part that we hope to see come to fruition,” Guggenheim said. Could this mean E-2 Laurel may be redeemed down the line and eventually rejoin the team? That’s TBD. But my favourite was in the season 2 finale when she was convince that Oliver told Slade that he loved Felicity only in order to protect Laurel, the woman he really loved, from him. 4 Link to comment
LeighAn January 30, 2017 Share January 30, 2017 Haha, the season 3 premiere must have been a huge shock then 4 Link to comment
bijoux January 30, 2017 Share January 30, 2017 4 hours ago, LeighAn said: Haha, the season 3 premiere must have been a huge shock then Maybe he was protecting Laurel from the new Count? After all, had she been in the restaurant, she was the one who could have been blown up. 6 Link to comment
BkWurm1 January 30, 2017 Share January 30, 2017 23 minutes ago, bijoux said: Maybe he was protecting Laurel from the new Count? After all, had she been in the restaurant, she was the one who could have been blown up. He was so devoted to her that he was willing to make the ultimate sacrifice, spend the rest of his life with Felicity, just so that no one would target Laurel because of him. How noble! The ultimate love story! 21 Link to comment
LeighAn January 30, 2017 Share January 30, 2017 I've seen the light. Lauriver true love forever. They're so Romeo and Juliet. Link to comment
wonderwall January 30, 2017 Share January 30, 2017 12 hours ago, statsgirl said: “The episode ends with laying a very specific seed with a very specific game plan on our part that we hope to see come to fruition,” Guggenheim said IIRC... Isn't this about Felicity's storyline? Or am I mistaken? Link to comment
SmallScreenDiva January 30, 2017 Share January 30, 2017 Quote “The episode ends with laying a very specific seed with a very specific game plan on our part that we hope to see come to fruition,” Guggenheim said. I read that quote as a reference to NuCanary. 12 Link to comment
tv echo January 30, 2017 Share January 30, 2017 (edited) “Who Are You?”: Three Elements of a Great Arrow Episode Amy Woolsey Jan. 28, 2017http://culturess.com/2017/01/27/three-elements-great-arrow-episode/ Quote The best antagonists tend to have some sort of intimate connection to the protagonist, providing concrete personal stakes (hence why Deathstroke/Slade Wilson was compelling and Ra’s al Ghul wasn’t). Black Siren serves as a vehicle through which to illustrate Oliver’s internal conflict. Not only does she resemble his deceased friend, dredging up dormant memories and feelings, but she resembles him, another condemned soul in search of redemption. She forces Oliver to confront his murky past and reevaluate his worldview. * * *Even producer Marc Guggenheim admits the show fumbled Oliver and Felicity’s break-up. It felt arbitrary and contrived, undermining years of hard-won character development, as if the writers didn’t know how to deal with a long-term romantic relationship. (The other CW superhero shows have struggled in this area as well.) Ultimately, though, it seems to have been the right call. After spending two seasons bogged down in maudlin angst, Oliver and Felicity are fun again. * * * “Who Are You?” puts them at odds with each other, but this time, their quarreling feels organic and meaningful. As they argue about what to do with Black Siren, underlying tensions rise to the surface, reflecting their disparate mindsets. Whereas Oliver is starting to accept the possibility of good, Felicity is becoming disillusioned and guarded, shattered by the deaths of Laurel and Billy. It’s a neat reversal: for so long, Oliver relied on Felicity to act as his moral compass, but here, he’s the optimistic one. Crucially, the show doesn’t take sides, presenting both points of view as reasonable. * * *As ludicrous as the situations are, Arrow’s willingness to engage with thorny moral issues lends at least a veneer of substance to the comic-book action. Diggle’s plotline is especially intriguing (not to mention oddly relevant), promising an examination of power and justice that’ll hopefully be more effective than the current mayor arc. A good villain Team bonding Thematic resonance Edited January 30, 2017 by tv echo 1 Link to comment
statsgirl January 30, 2017 Share January 30, 2017 1 hour ago, tv echo said: As ludicrous as the situations are, Arrow’s willingness to engage with thorny moral issues lends at least a veneer of substance to the comic-book action. As well as the characters of Felicity and Diggle, this is the reason I stick with this show. LoT has it too, and that's why I like them both because it's more than just comic book. I'm losing my interest in Supergirl and The Flash because the moral issues get glossed over for the writers' love of the characters. 1 hour ago, wonderwall said: IIRC... Isn't this about Felicity's storyline? Or am I mistaken? The following paragraph was about Tina and her shattering scream. 1 Link to comment
wonderwall January 30, 2017 Share January 30, 2017 2 hours ago, SmallScreenDiva said: I read that quote as a reference to NuCanary. Right! Thank you. Yeah I didn't really think that was about Laurel. I thought it was more wishful thinking on the interviewer's part. Link to comment
BkWurm1 January 30, 2017 Share January 30, 2017 6 hours ago, tv echo said: Even producer Marc Guggenheim admits the show fumbled Oliver and Felicity’s break-up. It felt arbitrary and contrived, undermining years of hard-won character development, as if the writers didn’t know how to deal with a long-term romantic relationship. (The other CW superhero shows have struggled in this area as well.) Ultimately, though, it seems to have been the right call. After spending two seasons bogged down in maudlin angst, Oliver and Felicity are fun again. I have to assume they meant finally in this episode??? Because I sure didn't find either one fun since the break up. The mom/dad vibe with the recruits was good early on, but not something that needed them to break up to achieve. Really, even in this episode, they could have completely had this exact conflict (minus Billy being a boyfriend, but he could have still been a friend) even while they were still a full blown couple. The break up has yet to add any value to the story for me. 17 Link to comment
statsgirl January 30, 2017 Share January 30, 2017 I agree that for the first nine episodes, it didn't make any sense. I wonder if it will make more sense as the season goes along. I do think Oliver and Felicity were able to be on opposite sides of the Black Siren issue in a way that wouldn't have been possible if they had been married or even still in a relationship together though. I'm hoping that the writers will use the break-up to explore who Oliver and Felicity are for the rest of the season apart from who they are when they are together. Does that make sense? I don't think I'm describing it well enough. When you're in a relationship with someone, you're different than when you're alone. I'm good with exploring who they are alone as long as they get together for next season. But I don't trust all the writers in the Writers Room to do it justice. Link to comment
LeighAn January 30, 2017 Share January 30, 2017 Well if you believe Marc and Wendy it's because they wanted to explore who Felicity is as an individual and that's apparently impossible while having a romantic relationship. I still think the break up will prove to have no thematic purpose or value in show though and I'm not holding out hope that there will be something that has it make sense. I still think it's simply a CW requested stall and also a way for them to devote time to all the newbies. 5 Link to comment
BkWurm1 January 30, 2017 Share January 30, 2017 (edited) Quote I do think Oliver and Felicity were able to be on opposite sides of the Black Siren issue in a way that wouldn't have been possible if they had been married or even still in a relationship together though. I still think that Felicity would have thought Oliver was being dumb about trying to redeem NotLaurel and taking risks, so her orders to the team IMO would have still happened. Their exchange might have been a little less heated and perhaps she would have been more willing to tell him upfront about the nanos and her plan, but maybe not if he was being completely pigheaded. Though I guess it's not the best thing to do to just go against what your partner wants even if they are being an idiot. Edited January 30, 2017 by BkWurm1 2 Link to comment
insomniadreams88 January 30, 2017 Share January 30, 2017 14 minutes ago, statsgirl said: I do think Oliver and Felicity were able to be on opposite sides of the Black Siren issue in a way that wouldn't have been possible if they had been married or even still in a relationship together though. I think Oliver wouldn't be as stupid as he has been so far in S5 if he and Felicity were still together. (Obviously there wouldn't be anything going on with Susan, for example.) So I can see this being true. But if they really wanted to do the Oliver-wants-to-redeem-BS story, they probably could have still made it work. 2 Link to comment
LeighAn January 30, 2017 Share January 30, 2017 I think Oliver would have still done the whole appealing to the good in Black Siren if he were still with Felicity but I don't think he would have been so dogged about it and wouldn't have been as much as a dumbass. Nor would Felicity have been as anti or quick to strike. Mainly because in that scenario there would be no Billy and ergo no reason for both Oliver and Felicity to carry around the guilt of his death. So Oliver would have allowed more scepticism because he wouldn't have that desperate need to put all his stock in redeeming Laurel to avoid his own man pain about Malone. And Felicity wouldn't be as blood thirsty and in need of revenge that she would shut down all possibility of Black Siren being more then a straight up villian. 4 Link to comment
tv echo January 31, 2017 Share January 31, 2017 (edited) ‘Arrow’ Mid-Season Premiere Review: “Who Are You? Nora Dominick January 30, 2017http://emertainmentmonthly.com/index.php/arrow-review-who-are-you/ Quote ... While new characters breathe new life into shows, Arrow faltered by packing too many into the first half of the season. This caused some problems in storytelling for the long-time DCTV show. First, the abundance of new characters didn’t allow us to learn more about each one. Fans were unable to get attached thus causing some problems. Second, because of the massive influx of new characters, fan-favorite characters didn’t get the storylines or character development they deserved. Oliver’s (Stephen Amell) Mayoral storyline isn’t striking an impactful chord, Felicity (Emily Bett Rickards) is the shell of her former self and god even knows what Thea (Willa Holland) is up to. Arrow’s midseason premiere may not be perfect, but we are starting to see the show we all fell in love with five years ago. * * * ... Katie Cassidy exceeds all expectations in this episode. First introduced in an episode of The Flash last season, Black Siren is the perfect addition to the Arrowverse and is a great example of an Earth 2 counterpart. Cassidy always played Laurel extremely well, but her work as Black Siren is simply extraordinary. She defies expectations and makes us miss Cassidy’s presence on Arrow even more. From the moment she reveals herself as Black Siren, Cassidy owns the episode. Cassidy and Amell have always worked great together and this episode is no exception. Oliver drastically tries to hold onto the little bit of Laurel he can, while Black Siren screws with his head even more. While Amell does suit up as Green Arrow in this episode, his moments as Oliver Queen are more impactful. From the moment “Laurel” reappears, something clicks in Oliver. He’s back to his younger self who would do anything to protect Laurel. * * * This episode may be about Laurel’s return and the aftermath of Green Arrow fighting Prometheus, but Felicity Smoak is the shining star. Emily Bett Rickards is back and better than ever. After sitting on the sidelines for the first half of season 5, it’s refreshing and a long time coming to have Felicity back in the action. Right off the bat, Felicity is the only one to see through Black Siren’s fake Laurel facade. Rickards builds Felicity’s character back up in a single episode of Arrow and it’s simply extraordinary to watch. Arrow 5A faltered on multiple levels and we can’t help but think it could be because Felicity was barely recognizable. Her storylines felt rushed, she barely even looked at Oliver, let alone talked to him, and she just didn’t seem like the independent character we love. This week, Arrow thrusts Felicity right into the middle of the Black Siren fight and it gives us some kickass work from Rickards, but also falls into an exhausting TV trope. * * *Arrow turns to the women vs. women TV trope this week. A trope that should’ve died years ago, better yet, never have happened. Felicity and Laurel can’t seem to be friends in any universe, which is sad as a fan because Cassidy and Rickards work effortlessly together. Female friendships are rare on TV, especially in the DCTV universe. Thea and Felicity’s friendship is something we would LOVE to see, but all of their bonding happens off screen. Laurel and Felicity had moments, but they were never as important as moments between Oliver and Diggle (David Ramsey), their male counterparts. While Cassidy shines as Black Siren, we wish she could’ve shown up on Arrow without having to fight Felicity. Speaking of ships, a positive in Arrow’s corner this week is they’ve finally recognized that Oliver and Felicity are indeed friends. Shocking, we know. During 5A the Arrow writers seemed to have been struck with a severe case of amnesia, unable to remember that Oliver and Felicity not only dated, but were engaged. Rickards and Amell fall back in step this week and it’s as if nothing has changed. Their shared moments in the Arrow Bunker are something to celebrate. * * * Rickards brings her A-game while Amell feeds off her every movement and word. This is something that we missed in Arrow 5A. We missed the banter, the heart to heart moments in times of need. While Felicity and Oliver aren’t together right now, that’s not the point. The point is they are friends first and foremost and Arrow finally allows fans to see this. Rickards and Amell work flawlessly together and it’s good to see them do so this week. Arrow needs to continue to play to its strengths and allows fan favorite character to flourish once again. Edited January 31, 2017 by tv echo 1 Link to comment
ComicFan777 January 31, 2017 Share January 31, 2017 (edited) I have to snicker at: "Cassidy always played Laurel extremely well, but her work as Black Siren is simply extraordinary...and makes us miss Cassidy's presence on Arrow." I think KC played Black Siren better than Laurel. I will give her that, but I didn't think it was extraordinary and definitely don't miss her presence. Edited January 31, 2017 by ComicFan777 16 Link to comment
Morrigan2575 January 31, 2017 Share January 31, 2017 1 hour ago, ComicFan777 said: I have to snicker at: "Cassidy always played Laurel extremely well, but her work as Black Siren is simply extraordinary...and makes us miss Cassidy's presence on Arrow." I think KC played Black Siren better than Laurel. I will give her that, but I didn't think it was extraordinary and definitely don't miss her presence. Well she wasn't absolute dog shit like she was a Laurel, this time KC was just plain old shit. So I guess that's room for praise? I don't know, people see different things in different actors. To me KC is just a very poor/limited/wooden actress there's quite a few of them on The CW and in the CWDC shows. 2 Link to comment
Chaser January 31, 2017 Share January 31, 2017 (edited) I'm surprised no one has gif'd the drunk villain walk yet. It was her best work. Edited January 31, 2017 by Chaser 3 Link to comment
tv echo January 31, 2017 Share January 31, 2017 (edited) Finally - an interview with Joe Dinicol (this is an audio podcast)... We Have a Hulk: Episode 46 - Joe Dinicol Interview Jan. 30, 2017 https://www.podomatic.com/podcasts/wehaveahulk/episodes/2017-01-29T23_00_00-08_00 -- At around the 20:50 mark, they started discussing the latest episodes of LoT, Arrow, Supergirl and Flash. -- At around the 32:50 mark, they started their interview with Joe Dinicol. He watched Arrow when it first started but stopped when he lost cable for many years, but came back to it when he became part of the show. -- When asked whether the Ragman suit is comfortable, JD said it depended on the time of year: "The suit is mostly, uh, comfortable depending on the temperature. So it is a little oppressive... The mask is a little on the tight side. Um, and the rags and the coat and the hood are quite heavy, but that all sorta adds to the physicality of the character, which does a lot of work for me." He also said that it helped that it's mostly night shoots. Also, shooting in Vancouver where it rains a lot, he was told that he was the one who "wins" in the winter, and they were right. They then talked about the Ragman special effects. -- When asked if we'll see more of Rory's abilities (like in the comics), JD: "Yeah, well, I think - what's kinda cool about the show - what's cool for me anyways - is we're kinda - because that is, let's say, a pretty out there concept, right? ... And because Arrow is of the - I guess, of the four shows - the most grounded in reality, we're sorta finding out what of that stuff works in this world and what doesn't. Um, the other thing that's sorta cool... Rory is sorta discovering these powers as he goes. You know, the rags were put on him in a - at a great inflection point when his parents were - you know, when everyone he knew was wiped off the face of the earth. So no one was really around to let him know the ins and outs of these powers. Uh, you will definitely see him stretch - I will say, you will definitely see him stretch the boundaries of those powers, um, as far as he can go. I won't say any more about that. But you will definitely see him really go to the - to the far reaches of those powers and see what they can do. So I will say that - that's one of my favorite episodes coming." -- When asked about Evelyn's betrayal, JD said that they were all bummed because the three of them (him, Madison and Rick) all came in at the same time and the team became kind of a family. However, he said that someone had to be the bad guy and Evelyn would be the most surprising one. He talked about how he spent a lot of time with the three of them, Curtis and Emily, early on. -- JD joked about how he really doesn't have to train and that when you have SA, RG and DR there, "no one is asking [him] to take his shirt off," but he's totally fine with that. Also, JD praised his stunt double. Since Ragman's abilities are not hand-to-hand combat, he doesn't have to train in the same way. He mentioned that everyone's really supportive of each other. -- JD said that the EPs have done a great job of "carving out niches" for the different characters, so that "no two characters are doing the same thing or going through the same thing," and "making sure that every character is specific and their own sorta entity." Because of that, he didn't feel that anyone felt threatened that they would be eliminated because someone else was doing the same role. -- On the team in 5B, JD: "What's cool about the next part of the season is that... you'll see them either pull together or not, based on how strong they've gotten... We've shown a lot of the sort of dissension and the cracks in the team, you know, as they sort of come together and form and put it all together. Um, but I think we'll be surprised at how strong they've actually become, especially in the face of Evelyn detracting - that was a really galvanizing thing for the team... and I think it'll keep them together and make them stronger than even they thought they would be... But there will be a struggle to ... stay strong and stay together because they're facing - you know, Prometheus is a pretty formidable foe, who's really sort of - whose main sort of focus is to - is to sort of turn everyone against, uh, the Green Arrow... And because the team is new, he can become quite successful at times with that, because no one is that close to Oliver yet. So it's a cool dynamic - they're getting very close, but they're also - there's also wedges being pushed in constantly. So it's a very cool back-and-forth in the second half of the season." Edited January 31, 2017 by tv echo 3 Link to comment
tv echo January 31, 2017 Share January 31, 2017 (edited) Arrow Round Table: Should Black Siren Stick Around? Paul Dailly at January 30, 2017 1:00 pmhttps://www.tvfanatic.com/2017/01/arrow-round-table-should-black-siren-stick-around/ Quote TV Fanatics Steve Ford, Jim Garner and Robin Harry discuss Black Siren's appearance, Felicity not following orders and whether Adrian is really helping Diggle. * * *What did you think of Felicity not following orders?Steve: If Wild Dog has begun following orders, then "somebody" has to stop following them right? It's just the way this show works. Seriously, can no one EVER be on the same page for just one episode? It's frustrating to say the least. Jim: She's overwatch, she should be able to bypass Oliver's commands as she has the bigger picture. I think it was great that she was helping Ollie get past his blind spot of Laurel. Robin: The constant undermining of Oliver's orders is a sore spot with me this season. Is Oliver the team's leader or not? Oliver was surrounded by the team, and would have been more than capable of defending himself at that moment, had there even been a threat. While I get Felicity's point this week, I was not convinced that Oliver's so-called "blind spot" with faux-Laurel was a great enough obstacle to warrant her overriding his commands. * * *What do you think of the potential new canary?Steve: I'm glad Oliver intends to "honor" Laurel by recruiting a new Canary, but I don't know how I feel about a new character playing the role. Then again, it's along the same lines of Laurel taking over for Sarah as the Black Canary. Sometimes I forget that Laurel wasn't the first Canary. Jim: So is she meta? She seems to us a canary scream to blast those guys out of the bar. Or did she end up with Cisco's tech? I'm glad they are finally adding a new Canary, lets hope they replace the statue too. Robin: I am PSYCHED. I feel like they've done all they can with Laurel Lance. That character and her relationships with everyone are too messy to unravel at this point. So I'm super excited about an entirely new character coming on board, bringing a completely fresh take on the character. I like the glimpse we got of her, and I feel that this is gonna be good. Edited January 31, 2017 by tv echo Link to comment
BkWurm1 January 31, 2017 Share January 31, 2017 I'm getting the impression of a warmer reception toward Tina than I would have expected. 1 Link to comment
kismet January 31, 2017 Share January 31, 2017 22 hours ago, BkWurm1 said: The break up has yet to add any value to the story for me. It's added a value, only problem is that it is a negative value. And some weeks a very large number. Link to comment
Belinea January 31, 2017 Share January 31, 2017 (edited) 45 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said: I'm getting the impression of a warmer reception toward Tina than I would have expected. I have the feeling that it isn't about LL with most people. They want BC regardless of how it is done. They might advocate for LL as BC and canon and comics and all that stuff but in the end they care about BC because comics and don't pay that much attention to the person behind the mask. Also having a new BC gives the impression of returning to the comic roots and acknowledging the unmistakable duo of BC and GA. Since you can't get a live reading of the comics on tv, I guess you take what you get these days. Edited January 31, 2017 by Belinea 7 Link to comment
Morrigan2575 January 31, 2017 Share January 31, 2017 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Belinea said: because comics and don't pay that much attention to the person behind the mask. I have to disagree with that. Comics very much focus on the person behind the mask, at least the comics I've read. I'd actually make the opposite statement. The people that only care about the mask and, not who is behind it, probably never read comics. Edited January 31, 2017 by Morrigan2575 2 Link to comment
ComicFan777 January 31, 2017 Share January 31, 2017 ...as superficial as it is, maybe they just want to see a pretty girl in leather that can fight and has a good set of lungs... 2 Link to comment
Belinea January 31, 2017 Share January 31, 2017 Just now, Morrigan2575 said: I have to disagree with that. Comics very Mich focus on the person behind the mask, at least the comics I've read. No, I meant that some viewers care not as much as long as their superhero is present. 3 Link to comment
Morrigan2575 January 31, 2017 Share January 31, 2017 1 minute ago, Belinea said: No, I meant that some viewers care not as much as long as their superhero is present. Ahhhhhhhh "because comics" gotcha. Link to comment
tv echo January 31, 2017 Share January 31, 2017 (edited) Arrows Return Reminds Us How Much Oliver And Felicity Have Changed Posted by Dan Wickline January 26, 2017https://www.bleedingcool.com/2017/01/26/arrows-return-reminds-us-much-oliver-felicity-changed/ Quote ... Prometheus enlisted Black Siren, the Laurel of Earth-2, to come mess with Oliver Queen and crew. I don’t think it worked they way he wanted and that’s because Oliver and Felicity aren’t the same people they were at the beginning of the series. The biggest reveal here is that Felicity Smoak isn’t just following along blindly anymore (though she put up a fight, she tended to follow suit after). Here she specifically went against Oliver because she didn’t trust his judgement when it came to Laurel. And the fact the team followed her lead is a good thing. Having someone who can call the shots when Oliver can’t and while John Diggle is in jail keeps the team moving. It also shows the growth of her character and the growth of Oliver in that he was upset at first, but listened to what she said and why. It’s not quite “his way or the highway” anymore. Edited January 31, 2017 by tv echo 4 Link to comment
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