Past Seasons Talk: The Tribe Has Spoken

[Guest]

39 minutes ago, Otherkate said:

Thank you for your recommendations of which season to start out with to watch for the first time with my two daughters. They are LOVING Pearl Islands and are clearly turning into Survivor fans. 20 minutes into the first episode, my older daughter said she thinks Sandra is going to win. In general, they are both big Sandra fans. It's been so long since I watched this season of Survivor, that I forgot how Sandra was in her first season - it's been great to watch.

I'm afraid we're going to burn through pretty quickly - any suggestions for the next season? I was thinking Cook Islands because of Ozzzy or Palau because I think they will like Stephanie. I honestly can't remember Rob's first season all that well, but feel like it's important for them to meet good old Boston Rob, too. 

I wasn't a huge Ozzy fan, but for those who like him, Cook Islands is probably peak Ozzy (except perhaps for the whole challenge-throwing thing early on). And it has its merits beyond just Ozzy.

Fans vs Favorites (Season 16) might be a good follow-up to Cook Islands, since it features Ozzy, Jonathan and Parvati from that season, and is a pretty wild season in terms of how it plays out. Although you might want to throw in Panama (Season 12) before that, since that's the intro to Cirie (also on Season 16) and the source of much of her appeal. And Panama in general has some of the more outlandish characters and cartoonish "disagreements" (Shane vs. Courtney, Aras vs. Terry). It's an exercise in the absurd that I didn't fully appreciate at the time but is amusing in retrospect.

Marquesas (Rob's first season) is kind of an odd one. It came off well in context (because of some mixing up after 3 by-the-numbers seasons of "majority tribe takes out minority tribe") but I'm not sure how it would come across now. And All-Stars, despite its flaws, I think would serve as a better intro to Rob (and Amber!). (Though it does have the Richard/Sue incident, which you might want to avoid.)

But what do I know? Guatemala and Fiji are two of my favorite seasons! XD

Edited April 20, 2020 by tracyscott76

[Otherkate]

2 hours ago, tracyscott76 said:

I wasn't a huge Ozzy fan, but for those who like him, Cook Islands is probably peak Ozzy (except perhaps for the whole challenge-throwing thing early on). And it has its merits beyond just Ozzy.

Fans vs Favorites (Season 16) might be a good follow-up to Cook Islands, since it features Ozzy, Jonathan and Parvati from that season, and is a pretty wild season in terms of how it plays out. Although you might want to throw in Panama (Season 12) before that, since that's the intro to Cirie (also on Season 16) and the source of much of her appeal. And Panama in general has some of the more outlandish characters and cartoonish "disagreements" (Shane vs. Courtney, Aras vs. Terry). It's an exercise in the absurd that I didn't fully appreciate at the time but is amusing in retrospect.

Marquesas (Rob's first season) is kind of an odd one. It came off well in context (because of some mixing up after 3 by-the-numbers seasons of "majority tribe takes out minority tribe") but I'm not sure how it would come across now. And All-Stars, despite its flaws, I think would serve as a better intro to Rob (and Amber!). (Though it does have the Richard/Sue incident, which you might want to avoid.)

But what do I know? Guatemala and Fiji are two of my favorite seasons! XD

Wow, this made me look back - I forgot that Cook Islands had actually a lot going on and lots of good cast members. 

I've been watching Survivor since day one, but I don't think I've rewatched at all, so I feel like I have all the people muddled in my head.

[LadyChatts]

5 hours ago, tracyscott76 said:

But what do I know? Guatemala and Fiji are two of my favorite seasons! XD

I've been re-watching Fiji, and am trying to remember why I didn't like it so much in the first place.  Going along with the crowd?   It came after Cook Islands, which I thought was a stronger season?  Or it could be the fact that I know Ravu went on one of the worst losing streaks this series has ever seen, and Moto was one of the most obnoxious winningest tribes to ever go on a winning streak, so I was prepared for that.  But on re-watch, I'm finding that season enjoyable.  Lisi and Mookie were terrible casting choices, and aside from helping to orchestrate Edgardo's blindside, I don't like Stacy as much as I remember.  And I feel like Rocky was about to go Brandon Hantz on that place if he didn't get voted out when he did.  I can't tell what his deal was.  I actually liked Alex and Edgardo better than I remembered.  And I never had a problem with Dreamz.  I could care less about him breaking his promise to Yau-Man.  

Yau-Man, by the way, is awesome.  I'm surprised he's the only person to ever come back from this season, though I know they've tried getting Earl before (including for our current season), and it just never worked out.  I would have loved to have seen Michelle get another shot though (seriously, where was the getting out of your seats and whispering when she needed it), or Alex, Edgardo, and even Boo.  I loved how they had a montage in one of the early episodes of how accident prone Boo was around camp.  And I would have liked to have seen Anthony back, only because he was the original black nerd,and he had to put up with Rocky.  So give him a chance without him around.

And I continue to say Guatemala is one of the most underrated seasons ever.  I can't believe it's taken this long to have someone come back from that season.  Judd is one the better villains, Jaime was a comical villain, and I loved his little feud with Bobby Jon.  I could watch those two going at it any day.  

[SVNBob]

3 hours ago, Otherkate said:

I forgot that Cook Islands had actually a lot going on and lots of good cast members. 

Ever since my re-watch of that season a while ago, I'm of the opinion that the reason CI is generally underrated is the initial tribal divide.  That cast such a shadow over the season, even though it was eliminated after a couple episodes, most viewers find it difficult to get past it.  It's because of this that I'm glad that the next season (the original Fiji season) lost a contestant last-second, and the potential rehash of the CI theme was replaced with the Have/Have-Not theme.  (Although that has its' own issues.)

But if you can get past that shadow, there is so much going for CI.  As said, lots of great people, (many who have returned to play again, (and some that haven't)), good strategy (including the invention of a basic Survivor strategy), and of course, the ultimate Survivor underdog story; the legend of The Aitu4.

[Guest]

5 hours ago, LadyChatts said:

I've been re-watching Fiji, and am trying to remember why I didn't like it so much in the first place.  Going along with the crowd?   It came after Cook Islands, which I thought was a stronger season?  Or it could be the fact that I know Ravu went on one of the worst losing streaks this series has ever seen, and Moto was one of the most obnoxious winningest tribes to ever go on a winning streak, so I was prepared for that. 

I think this had a lot to do with Fiji's bad reputation. Those first few episodes before the swap were kind of a slog to get through because the same thing kept happening over and over (i.e. Ravu losing) and I remember a lot of people throwing up their hands and saying "what did they expect when they did the have/have-not thing?" And similar to what @SVNBob said about Cook Islands' initial tribal divide, it cast a pall over the rest of the season, and that's what many people remember, rather than the awesomeness that came later. (And Lisi and Rocky didn't help.)

[Lamima]

Binge watched season 6- Amazon on Saturday to see what Rob C was all about. Pretty interesting season. All the sexist talk that would NEVER fly today. Rob was a great gamer and Jenna an undeserving winner IMO. But she outlasted. Rob was maybe a bit dumb and blinded by her girly wiles to cut her like he should have. Though Rob dragging cray cray Matt to the end was much like Boston Rob with Philip.

Binge watched 11- Guatemala on Sunday.. Guatemala was boring. And had a couple douche bros and another slightly undeserving winner. Steph should have won but bitter jury. Though she didn't do proper jury management and had too big an alliance. Much like Paul on Big Brother. Playing the godfather of this big alliance. Gets you a bitter jury. 

Edited April 20, 2020 by Lamima

[Lamima]

6 hours ago, LadyChatts said:

I've been re-watching Fiji, and am trying to remember why I didn't like it so much in the first place.  Going along with the crowd?   It came after Cook Islands, which I thought was a stronger season?  Or it could be the fact that I know Ravu went on one of the worst losing streaks this series has ever seen, and Moto was one of the most obnoxious winningest tribes to ever go on a winning streak, so I was prepared for that.  But on re-watch, I'm finding that season enjoyable.  Lisi and Mookie were terrible casting choices, and aside from helping to orchestrate Edgardo's blindside, I don't like Stacy as much as I remember.  And I feel like Rocky was about to go Brandon Hantz on that place if he didn't get voted out when he did.  I can't tell what his deal was.  I actually liked Alex and Edgardo better than I remembered.  And I never had a problem with Dreamz.  I could care less about him breaking his promise to Yau-Man.  

Yau-Man, by the way, is awesome.  I'm surprised he's the only person to ever come back from this season, though I know they've tried getting Earl before (including for our current season), and it just never worked out.  I would have loved to have seen Michelle get another shot though (seriously, where was the getting out of your seats and whispering when she needed it), or Alex, Edgardo, and even Boo.  I loved how they had a montage in one of the early episodes of how accident prone Boo was around camp.  And I would have liked to have seen Anthony back, only because he was the original black nerd,and he had to put up with Rocky.  So give him a chance without him around.

And I continue to say Guatemala is one of the most underrated seasons ever.  I can't believe it's taken this long to have someone come back from that season.  Judd is one the better villains, Jaime was a comical villain, and I loved his little feud with Bobby Jon.  I could watch those two going at it any day.  

Judd and Jaime good TV there. Also Rafe was really the mastermind behind a lot of what was going on. And let Steph take the blame. His big mistake was telling Dani she was free of the deal they made. But he should have been brought back. I would say he is very under rated and one of the greatest players of all time. He managed jury well. He won comps. He masterminded flips and ousters without being know. Everyone thought it was Steph but I think it was him who got those 3 so far. I wish Jeff would have asked jury who they would have voted for if Dani took Rafe.

Edited April 20, 2020 by Lamima

[Lady Calypso]

So I finally restarted my Survivor binge watch after taking a few months off. I'm watching Blood vs Water right now and am on the second episode. I am glad that I took a break and didn't try to cram other seasons in before Winners at War started. Getting back to watch the seasons I actually want to watch (it'll be BvW, then Game Changers, then Second Chances before I move way back to the early seasons) is definitely going to help things out.

[AncientNewbie]

Somewhere between recommendations and revisiting my ongoing binge:

I've recently posted at length about my odd like of Amazon, but I would recommend it mainly to either people going sequentially or intense fans wanting a really weird season.

We rolled a d20 on Saturday and came up with Gabon as our next binge. I usually don't subscribe to bitter jury theories (my theory is you only put people there that you have a chance of convincing, and it's a flaw in your game if you have the entire other alliance looking at you with hatred*) but that one just had a lot of ugly-acting people on the jury. It wasn't "I don't respect your game" but "you don't deserve to live." Also, I was surprised, after previous rewatches diluted villains in my head, just how much I still detest Randy. I was surprised how coherent and scheming he was at times, but when he went off the rails, he just got really personal and ugly. Sugar really grew on me on rewatch--I remembered her edit as just a ditz (probably for the crying) but she really was at the center of it all. And her comments at Final still really stay with me, as she wasn't going to do a dog and pony show for people that hated her. It's a rabbit hole of speculation, but if she didn't have her idol and had to connect, but also didn't have the food from exile...might she have upped her game?

S16 is recommended if you already know some of the S9-15 returning players, even if just by reputation. The bit where they Weekend-At-Bernies Chet's corpse for three episodes is either hilarious or laden with pathos, depending on the rewatch.

I really like S13 for a lot of reasons, but if I was watching it with kids I'd want to have my lesson plan prepared about racial stereotyping and how to build fire and inappropriate workplace communication. Or the vagaries of casting choices and revealed information, where Nate Gonzalez's Hispanic heritage was ignored for the purposes of single-race casting.

Frankly, my favorites tend to be the teens to early 20s versions of the game...not Clothed and Afraid like the start, but still with some exotic locations and the origins of plenty of Survivor legends.

*this theory is also flawed, as you would expect from an armchair qb with no chance of ever being on tv. Sometimes you have to put someone on the jury, like it or not, because the alternative is all their friends vote for them to win...but mostly I'm just overreacting to the idea that "bitter" is a default for explaining unpopular winners, when it's usually more complex than that, as I'll reveal in my next imaginary book, available at fine imaginary bookstores...

Edited April 20, 2020 by AncientNewbie

[Lamb18]

19 hours ago, Otherkate said:

Thank you for your recommendations of which season to start out with to watch for the first time with my two daughters. They are LOVING Pearl Islands and are clearly turning into Survivor fans. 20 minutes into the first episode, my older daughter said she thinks Sandra is going to win. In general, they are both big Sandra fans. It's been so long since I watched this season of Survivor, that I forgot how Sandra was in her first season - it's been great to watch.

I'm afraid we're going to burn through pretty quickly - any suggestions for the next season? I was thinking Cook Islands because of Ozzzy or Palau because I think they will like Stephanie. I honestly can't remember Rob's first season all that well, but feel like it's important for them to meet good old Boston Rob, too. 

Since your daughters like Sandra so much, maybe do season 20, Heroes vs. Villians next. I rewatched it recently and I think it's one of the best seasons out there. 

[Lamima]

Even with it's shit seasons...this really is the greatest show of all time. The game is a work of art. It's like making a mosaic. You have all these pieces of differing sizes and shape and colors. And whichever player completes their picture and has the best looking mosaic is the winner. The pieces are being smart and cunning or playing dumb or crazy...being a comp beast or not being a threat at all...being social and well liked and managing jury or being the villain to be taken to the end....even working at camp or being lazy would be pieces. There are just so many pieces to the game and the player who puts in THE right pieces and completes his picture the best wins. But you also have to watch that other players don't steal your pieces or smash your picture. It is a very delicate intricate crafting. If you're like, my Survivor crush, Joe A and just beast out comps and that's your only pieces you make your picture out of...it won't work. If you're also too big a villain and those are your only pieces...or very strategic and conniving like poor Adam....using just those pieces without fitting in some others then you just have one big solid color square. And you lose.

 

It's also why I prefer OG Survivor. They showed all the pieces whereas now they tend to just show folks trying to outwit. They focus on that so so much. I think it's to push the nerds are winners narrative. Can't show the nerds struggle in the comps or, more so, can't show them lose BECAUSE they struggle in the comps. I think it's why they highlight puzzles so much now.

Edited April 20, 2020 by Lamima

[cleo]

It used to be a great show. I found last season unwatchable and bailed at the halfway point or somewhere around there. I'm close to bailing on this season. I think the only reason I haven't is it's kind of sad. I was a fan since season 1, it just feels like the show has jumped the shark with all the gimmicks 

[Lamima]

13 hours ago, cleo said:

It used to be a great show. I found last season unwatchable and bailed at the halfway point or somewhere around there. I'm close to bailing on this season. I think the only reason I haven't is it's kind of sad. I was a fan since season 1, it just feels like the show has jumped the shark with all the gimmicks 

It's just evolved and it will evolve again. It's amazing to watch. It really is a great social experiment. I just wish the show would take the natural approach and not try to force the social agenda so much. There are plenty of opportunities naturally that they really don't need to create it artificially. Though with a more PC society maybe it's not as visible as it was, say, like on Amazon (with the sexism and even a brief delve into homophobia). So maybe that's why they really force the issues.

MAybe they should get back to hard core surviving then. Hunger and brutal challenges and bare bones living and the torrential rain and long painful stamina challenges. The one on Guatemala at the end with Rafe, Steph and Danni...that was brutal. And bring back the auction. And when a person wins a reward, have them go solo like they used to or bring just 1 person. Now it's like 6-10 of the tribe gets to go. 

Edited April 21, 2020 by Lamima

[cleo]

It's evolved alright. But anyway different strokes. Obviously it's still getting ratings, I just think it's about jumped the shark for me. EoE, the gimmicks, the 'characters' that end up being abusive more often than not, the endless whispering on TC. It's not entertaining. I just find it a chore to watch rather than enjoyable. It's like a slow breakup tbh. But that's just my opinion.....

[Lamima]

1 minute ago, cleo said:

It's evolved alright. But anyway different strokes. Obviously it's still getting ratings, I just think it's about jumped the shark for me. EoE, the gimmicks, the 'characters' that end up being abusive more often than not, the endless whispering on TC. It's not entertaining. I just find it a chore to watch rather than enjoyable. It's like a slow breakup tbh. But that's just my opinion.....

Yeah that whispering has got to stop. One of the seasons I just binged (6 or 11) Jeff actually told them to stop talking. He was quick to put a kaibosh (spelling?) to it. Them were the days.

[Lantern7]

Survivor115: Tony Speaks Llama

[LadyChatts]

On 4/21/2020 at 10:54 AM, cleo said:

It's evolved alright. But anyway different strokes. Obviously it's still getting ratings, I just think it's about jumped the shark for me. EoE, the gimmicks, the 'characters' that end up being abusive more often than not, the endless whispering on TC. It's not entertaining. I just find it a chore to watch rather than enjoyable. It's like a slow breakup tbh. But that's just my opinion.....

Yeah, when they were reading actual tree mail and focusing on Sarah's fashion show, it made me miss the days when we got those moments at camp.  I mean, tree mail isn't the end of the world, although when they actually had interesting challenges, the tree mail could be interesting and intrigue the castaways.  I hope they don't do EOE again, it just takes too much away from the people actually in the game.

I also hope there's a long gap before the next returning player season.  Since S20 (and counting that one), we've had 10 seasons that featured returning players in some fashion.  Before S20, there were just 3.

Edited April 23, 2020 by LadyChatts

[AncientNewbie]

8 hours ago, LadyChatts said:

I also  hope there's a long gap before the next returning player season.  Since S20 (and counting that one), we've had 10 seasons that featured returning players in some fashion.  Before S20, there were just 3.

 

I heard speculation there could be returners as early as 42, but that was pre-covid. I liked the brand new casts of strangers but I can see (if not like) why the show wants people who already know how to work with the production set up and deliver the content they want. And the core demographic, which I’m often out of touch with despite years of watching, seems to want to see certain players a lot. 

But in general I’d love a season of tree mail, “what did the most people say” challenges and “there’s a machete and a pan at camp, good luck.” In my dream version a cast of model-actors (excuse me, bartenders, students and personal trainers who happen to have started those jobs when not model-acting) thinking its pre-arranged Fiji campsites, well water and frequent reward food get dropped in a rubber boat and it’s Palau 2.0.

Idle speculation, but I wonder how a separate series of Old School Survivor would fare in competition with recent theme seasons. 

[LadyChatts]

7 hours ago, AncientNewbie said:

 

I heard speculation there could be returners as early as 42, but that was pre-covid. I liked the brand new casts of strangers but I can see (if not like) why the show wants people who already know how to work with the production set up and deliver the content they want. And the core demographic, which I’m often out of touch with despite years of watching, seems to want to see certain players a lot. 

But in general I’d love a season of tree mail, “what did the most people say” challenges and “there’s a machete and a pan at camp, good luck.” In my dream version a cast of model-actors (excuse me, bartenders, students and personal trainers who happen to have started those jobs when not model-acting) thinking its pre-arranged Fiji campsites, well water and frequent reward food get dropped in a rubber boat and it’s Palau 2.0.

Idle speculation, but I wonder how a separate series of Old School Survivor would fare in competition with recent theme seasons. 

I actually think the COVID-19 might make S41 a returning player challenge.  It was already cast with newbies, but if CBS is finally able to film and wanted to do it in a hurry, and it looked like they might need to re-cast some of the S41 people, it might be faster and easier to cast people who've already played.  We could get a FvsF 3 season or something.

I use to love seasons where players came back, but when there are so many of them, and so many of the players are recent, the novelty sort of wears off.  No wonder old schoolers have trouble making pre-game alliances when the majority of the cast all played in the same season or in seasons around each other.  And no wonder the casual crowd loves the newbies more, because they are recent, and have had more attempts to come back.  It gets old when its the same people being brought back over and over again.  I loved seeing Yul, Danni, Ethan, Amber, and Natalie this season.  

Edited April 23, 2020 by LadyChatts

[AncientNewbie]

I'd be down for a FvF, BvW or even something with just a couple returns like s25 or EoE (but, you know, not EoE.) I just think they need to give some of the stalwarts a rest. The status of all star or big name isn't helped when they roll them out over and over.

And I realize that a 25 year old part time student/model is going to be a lot more free to show up again than a 45 year old with three kids and a career (just making those up) so we are going to get recent players more often...but I hear of random former Old School players who express interest and think it could be done on some scale.

[Lamb18]

They could do another Heroes vs. Villains. The worst villain couldn't be cast. They could cast villains with most of the Worlds Apart (Collars) and Brains, Brawn, Beauty cast (Scot, Jason) casts.

[AncientNewbie]

Rewatching S16 this week. I'm sure the editing monkeys are involved and leaving a lot out, but I love how it's presented...the Favorites tribe is "yes, totally and completely 100% this person." And Cirie says "But...this other person." And they grumble and argue "no way, never" and somehow unanimously do what she says. And then she sits there at tribal with that beaming, friendly smile and everyone loves her even after she booted them out. I mean, I feel like she's smiling at me it's so powerful and I'm ~12 years and 5,000 miles away.

Part of my draw--other than just her charm--is that the show loves the challenge beasts and we're currently in the midst of s40 where most of the female winners seem to have a complex about if they really are legitimate because they played social and strategic without as much of a physical game. And yet here's a woman who has a top finish of 4th place and no chance of an individual immunity win (and has been a hindrance in tribal challenges) and I think most fans would put her in the top ten best to play the game.

[kstar821]

Binge watched Season 7 in about 3 days.  I forgot the delights of this season including but not limited to:

-Jon's unlikability (beyond the dead grandma story - the misogyny!)

-Lil's crying about everything

-Osten the quitter

-Ryan O's pelican 😂

-Burton looking like every 80s soap opera star ever

-Rupert stealing the shoes to barter for supplies

-"Savage" *eye roll*

 

[AncientNewbie]

I still don't get why Rupert and the shoes wasn't prohibited as messing with the personal property of other players, but whatever happened with it, it was really entertaining. I had almost forgotten that until my own recent rewatch of that ep given production's years of homage to St. Rupert of the Beard.

[nkotb]

My husband didn't watch Survivor until after we'd been together a while. The first season that we watched together is the season that Rob won ~ side note, but you all amaze me at your knowledge of who won where when & how. Anyway, we started watching in 2011, so he'd never seen All-Stars. The weather was cruddy this weekend, so we binged it. We ended at the finale, when Jeff announced that Amber had won. Hubs' mouth literally dropped to the floor, because Rob ran the hell outta that season. 

At the time, I was stunned, & I still think that Rob played the far superior game. However, in retrospect, he completely mishandled the jury, & they were bound to vote against him, even if he'd been sitting next to Satan. 15+ years later, I can understand why Amber won, & although I disagree with it, a bitter jury is something you have to account for, & play accordingly. 

It was so crazy to watch, because at the time, I thought Rob & Amber were just using each other for the game. However, it was obvious that Rob was into her, hence the Lex promise. I would've never guessed, watching that season, that they'd be married, 15+ years later, with 4 little Ambers. Honestly, it was pretty adorable to know how that turned out, & to see it unfold again. Also, the prizes were top-notch. Rob won a truck, & he got a movie date, which he chose to take Amber to attend. She also won a car. I know that the show isn't as popular as it once was, but, can we have some good prizes? Finally, that was so much more pure, because there was no hidden immunity idol, no fire tokens, no advantages, it was just so much more pure. I miss the good old days.

Is Lex still hating Rob? The last I heard, he was, but I'd like to think he is over it by now. Geez, I don't even hate my ex-boyfriend anymore, & he cost me years of my life, which I'd call more valuable than $1 million. I'd also forgotten that Lex took out Ethan, whom he was friends with, but was mad when Rob did it to him (it was dirty, but the game is pretty dirty, too). 

On 4/19/2020 at 7:06 PM, tracyscott76 said:

Marquesas (Rob's first season) is kind of an odd one. It came off well in context (because of some mixing up after 3 by-the-numbers seasons of "majority tribe takes out minority tribe") but I'm not sure how it would come across now. And All-Stars, despite its flaws, I think would serve as a better intro to Rob (and Amber!). (Though it does have the Richard/Sue incident, which you might want to avoid.)

But what do I know? Guatemala and Fiji are two of my favorite seasons! XD

I binge-watched this on Hulu this weekend. I was nervous about those episodes as well. The episode where Hatch actually grinds on her aired, but the episode when Sue had the breakdown & quit the game, which was the episode after the incident, didn't air. I'm not sure if it was copyrights, or what. The episode where Rudy was voted out didn't air, either, but those were the only 2. Anyway, while the episode where the incident happened is in rotation, the aftermath may not be, & isn't, on Hulu. I'd forgotten, but Jeff scolded Hatch during the challenge. It was really uncomfortable to watch. I remember being relieved when he got bamboozled that night. 

ETA: I had a thought about a gimmick for a season, since they rarely have people just come out & play, like they did in the good old days. What about children of players? Big Tom's son, Beau, visited him on the all-stars season, he's probably 35 or so now, but I'm sure that there are younger children-of-contestants that would be willing to play. That way, it'd be sorta new, but sorta old school. Just a thought.

Edited April 27, 2020 by nkotb
Forgot to mention before I posted.

[AncientNewbie]

Oddly enough, we're watching All Stars currently and saw this stuff last night. I didn't watch with my spouse until s16 so we're catching up. Everything between 5 and 14 is very fuzzy for me, like maybe I watched or didn't. Getting old is great, kids.  I'm using both Hulu and CBS All Access to watch, because I prefer Hulu but flip to CBS at times for the missing eps.

I really do not like awkward tv (or life), so Sue's very emotional outburst was hard to watch. What was even harder though was that Alicia was the only one that got an edit that would hold up today as so many others, especially the ones presented as nice guys and heroes and Kathy, were vocal about "is it just gameplay or she's just trying to sue him" sort of stuff. Which isn't to say one way or the other what happened or how anyone really felt...it just sounds very callous (esp following S39.)

I was also surprised how many times they had Lex sitting down with his allies and telling them it was their turn, but he took it so poorly when Rob did it to him. Admittedly he put a lot more weight on his deal with Rob than he did with Ethan and Jerri, but it was presented a lot more similar than his anger indicates. And FYI, because my spouse asked, I googled it last night and per Lex, they are civil but not really friends.

ETA:

37 minutes ago, nkotb said:

I know that the show isn't as popular as it once was, but, can we have some good prizes?

 

IMHO, they don't have to have "good" prizes when they are recruiting people that want to be on TV and not people that want to come win the challenges/money/game. And probably production doesn't want us to see them offering hamburger when they used to be given steak just so brands could be associated with them. But I do think some investment in the product could really help their brand, because $50,000 for a pickup or a basic luxury sedan is a blip for production and makes a big splash in the press for the show if promoted well.

ETA II: Electric Bugaloo: Obviously CBS did a full court press on Rob and Amber during/after this season, and he's played about 42 times since this (or so it feels) but I feel like I can appreciate him here a little more than when it was new. He was the Mean Girl confessional before it became the staple of the show who openly tells the home audience, with a smile, how he will lie, cheat and steal to win in the game and how the game isn't life. I can get why people don't like him, but I really prefer a gamer to someone that plays a White Knight game and feels entitled to win because they weren't playing the same game as 15-19 other people.

Edited April 27, 2020 by AncientNewbie

[Nashville]

3 hours ago, AncientNewbie said:

I still don't get why Rupert and the shoes wasn't prohibited as messing with the personal property of other players

Two words: good TV.

 

3 hours ago, AncientNewbie said:

 but whatever happened with it, it was really entertaining. I had almost forgotten that until my own recent rewatch of that ep given production's years of homage to St. Rupert of the Beard.

See?  Answered your own question.  😁

[LadyChatts]

Finally finished watching Survivor China.  I thought it was a really strong season up until the end, but I grew to kind of hate the alliance of Amanda/Todd/Courtney, and it got boring when the old Zhan Hu members started getting picked off.  I also hate players like Denise, who have the opportunity to change their fate in the game, but choose to just go with their alliance, even though they know where they stand.  I think about how we get the Sia money nowadays, but back then Denise got a fat check from Mark Burnett over what turned out to be a lie about her job position at the school.  So what would Sia have done if she found out her prize money recipient had lied?  Todd was a worthy winner, although I would have been happy with Courtney or Amanda.  I wonder if Amanda's FTC performance sunk her chances.  It was bad, but not as bad as I remembered.  I thought her FvsF FTC was worse.  One thing I liked, too, was that all of the final 3 got at least one vote.  I hate the landslide wins we get nowadays.  

Overall, I loved this season.  I find it underrated.  I really hated the Zhan Hu tribe in the beginning-Jaime was annoying.  Frosti and Erik were cool.  I disliked Peih Gee at first more than I remembered.  I liked Sherea.  And I love how Dave tried to take the leadership position at that camp, but did so horribly.  Courtney had the best one liners I think of anyone whose ever played.  We had what was probably the second boneheaded move from the series (James getting blindsided with 2 idols).  And the HII were hidden in plain sight, yet it still took a few clues before anyone found them.  Watching this season again, I guess I see why Amanda has returned twice, although I thought her and James really fizzled out by their respective third appearances in HvsV.  I wish they'd bring Aaron back.  He would have been a great candidate for Second Chances-not only screwed by a tribe swap, but screwed by his new tribe throwing the challenge just to vote him out.  I also wish Frosti had gotten another chance.    

This season is a prime example of why I miss them going to different locations.  There was a reward that took them to the Great Wall of China for the night, another reward that took them to the Shaolin Temple.  Pretty much all of the challenges were about the location.

Edited April 28, 2020 by LadyChatts

[SVNBob]

16 hours ago, AncientNewbie said:

I still don't get why Rupert and the shoes wasn't prohibited as messing with the personal property of other players,

13 hours ago, Nashville said:

Two words: good TV.

Two more words: On theme.  As Rupert himself said in a TH in that episode, "Pirates steal.  Pirates take advantage."   Rupert became TieDye-Beard in that moment, and thus ensured he was the season mascot.

Also, the rule about not messing with other player's personal property may not have been a rule until after that season.

Edited April 28, 2020 by SVNBob

[Hera]

17 hours ago, LadyChatts said:

Todd was a worthy winner, although I would have been happy with Courtney or Amanda.

I'd probably give it to Amanda over Courtney. Amanda was driving that alliance's strategy as much as Todd was. Courtney was entertaining, but I don't remember hearing much strategy from her—she seemed primarily motivated by personal feelings (spite). But it's true that as good as she is in an alliance, Amanda seems doomed to lose to her more charismatic ally at final tribal council. My husband brings her and Becky from Cook Islands up as people who weren't given enough credit by the jury for the games they played.

As for Heroes vs. Villains, I think Amanda struggled to get an ally she could trust and strategize with, the way she did with Todd and later Parvati and Cirie. The whole Heroes tribe was kind of a mess, and as much as she personally got along with James, I'm not sure their respective approaches to the game complement each other well enough for a game-long alliance to have been possible. I actually wouldn't mind seeing her play a fourth time and am surprised she wasn't brought back for Game Changers—maybe she's done with Survivor?

ETA: I just googled and found out she has two sons, one born in 2016 and the other in 2019, so she might pull a Kim Spradlin and be staying away for Life reasons, but will be back when her youngest is a little older.

Edited April 28, 2020 by Hera
Adding an ETA.

[LadyChatts]

1 hour ago, Hera said:

I'd probably give it to Amanda over Courtney. Amanda was driving that alliance's strategy as much as Todd was. Courtney was entertaining, but I don't remember hearing much strategy from her—she seemed primarily motivated by personal feelings (spite). But it's true that as good as she is in an alliance, Amanda seems doomed to lose to her more charismatic ally at final tribal council. My husband brings her and Becky from Cook Islands up as people who weren't given enough credit by the jury for the games they played.

As for Heroes vs. Villains, I think Amanda struggled to get an ally she could trust and strategize with, the way she did with Todd and later Parvati and Cirie. The whole Heroes tribe was kind of a mess, and as much as she personally got along with James, I'm not sure their respective approaches to the game complement each other well enough for a game-long alliance to have been possible. I actually wouldn't mind seeing her play a fourth time and am surprised she wasn't brought back for Game Changers—maybe she's done with Survivor?

ETA: I just googled and found out she has two sons, one born in 2016 and the other in 2019, so she might pull a Kim Spradlin and be staying away for Life reasons, but will be back when her youngest is a little older.

I would give it to Courtney just for being the little castaway that could.  She kind of lucked out in Aaron getting voted off pre-merge, as I think she took his spot in Todd/Amanda's alliance.  While Courtney didn't have much strategy moves to back up her game, I can appreciate the fact that she spoke her mind-when the Denise vote happened, whereas Todd and Amanda were reluctant to tell her they were voting for her, Courtney said she would.  She also sucked in challenges, but tried (hey she did win that one immunity-as she told Jean-Roberte in her FTC question to him, how many immunities did he win 😉  Granted it was an endurance challenge that was tailor made for someone like her, but hey, a win's a win.  And while I am very much about strategy winning a game over popularity or a bitter jury not wanting to award someone, I would say that Courtney defied the odds.  I'd say she was dragged along, but kind of not.  She was a number, but she could have flipped.  I don't know, she was an interesting one. 

I will agree about Amanda, though, and I may argue sometimes she was more of the driving force than Todd.  It's been so long since I've watched that season, I forgot how much of a strategic game she played.  I feel like she let her emotions get the better of her in the end. 

  

[peachmangosteen]

1 hour ago, Hera said:

My husband brings her and Becky from Cook Islands up as people who weren't given enough credit by the jury for the games they played.

I don't feel like it's about Amanda not getting credit, it's more about the fact that she herself won't own up to what she did and that can be annoying to jurors.

[Eolivet]

Who decided what seasons to put on these socks? Ghost Island, really? Island of the Idols twice? Harumph.

https://www.cbsstore.com/collections/survivor-season-40-winners-at-war/products/survivor-season-40-winners-at-war-logo-commemorative-socks

[LadyChatts]

20 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

I don't feel like it's about Amanda not getting credit, it's more about the fact that she herself won't own up to what she did and that can be annoying to jurors.

Yeah, I felt like some of the jurors were more or less asking Amanda to just own up about being deceitful and backstabbing, but she tried to play the whole 'I had a great social game and really liked you guys' route.  As I said, I wonder if that ended up costing her any votes.  It seemed like in the end she was trying to play both sides, too.  Like not wanting to admit when she was voting someone off, despite being asked by that person to just be honest with them, and acting emotionally conflicted.  This also seemed to screw her over in FvsF.

[Guest]

I was amused when Jeff pointed out during the FvF reunion how, for two seasons in a row, Amanda had gotten to the end only to lose badly in the final vote, and Amanda jokingly replied, "Yeah, it's a problem I'm having!"

[ByaNose]

9 hours ago, tracyscott76 said:

I was amused when Jeff pointed out during the FvF reunion how, for two seasons in a row, Amanda had gotten to the end only to lose badly in the final vote, and Amanda jokingly replied, "Yeah, it's a problem I'm having!"

I always liked Amanda. I was really impressed that she was able to make the Finals twice. That said, she just couldn't admit the game she played to get there. She could have won one of those seasons if she had just done that.

[Nashville]

1 hour ago, ByaNose said:

I always liked Amanda. I was really impressed that she was able to make the Finals twice. That said, she just couldn't admit the game she played to get there. She could have won one of those seasons if she had just done that.

For a million bucks (pre-tax, of course) I don’t think I’d have any particular problems with a follow-up of, “No I may not have been that nice, but yeah - I was willing to do it to be that rich!”  

And yeah, I could even do it twice.  😄

Edited April 29, 2020 by Nashville
Grammar

[AncientNewbie]

Like I said somewhere above, we just rewatched s16 and I'd forgotten how impressive Amanda was (or maybe I missed it the first time.) For some reason I remembered her more for losing than for being a strong competitor the whole game.

But I do agree about her Final Tribal performance. I think if she'd owned her game in either season she could have won. But she never wanted to admit to the strategy and she got steamrolled by charismatic people who gave frank answers.

[kstar821]

Not quite finished with S8 but I am reminded that Kathy remains one of my top 5 Survivors of all time.  

[AncientNewbie]

I did just finish s8 last night, which was a weird jump to finish that at 7:59 and switch 16 years into the future with some of the same people a moment later...

I can see why some people don't like that season. The cast of "star" alumni was relatively small and close at that point and it must have been a big honor to be asked to play again--just look at the packed crowd at MSG to watch the final votes read to get a reminder of how much of a pop culture phenomenon this used to be. But that meant they knew each other and had some personal bonds while this was all still new enough that there was no roadmap on how to return.

You can see it in the way they sat each other down and explained votes, leading to Lex's famously hurt feelings. It was treated more like a game between gentleman, where you and your alliance succeeded with an immunity win and there was little in the way of scheming and shifting that we see today.

My UO for that season is that Amber might not be a Top 10 winner, but she deserved it. She formed an alliance and rode it to the end, being more likable than the guy sitting next to her. She wasn't dynamic, but she didn't have to be--the alliance that everyone else should have done something about let her have not only an immunity shield, but it earned her more votes every time he irritated someone. By the way people talk about her (and my faulty memory) I expected the Sandra Bench the whole season for her, but she was at least mediocre in most challenges. Near the end game she was holding her own against Jenna and Rupert--not exactly challenge beasts, admittedly, but the narrative on this season has become that Amber was as much a spectator as the audience at home, probably because of Rob love and hate.

[Lantern7]

Funny115: “DAN! IS! WRONG!” And if piling onto a pantload like Dan Foley is wrong, then who would want to be right?

[cherrypj]

8 hours ago, Lantern7 said:

Funny115: “DAN! IS! WRONG!”

pew pew! 😆

[Guest]

On 5/6/2020 at 2:28 PM, Lantern7 said:

Funny115: “DAN! IS! WRONG!” And if piling onto a pantload like Dan Foley is wrong, then who would want to be right?

Mario does have a knack for making Worlds Apart a lot funnier than it seemed at the time.

[AncientNewbie]

22 hours ago, tracyscott76 said:

Mario does have a knack for making Worlds Apart a lot funnier than it seemed at the time.

 

I'm still not sure I want to wade through the ugly parts of this season again, but I do enjoy the skewering Mario gives it. The vignette he paints about Joe and Dan et al is about all I want to stomach of this mess.

Edited May 11, 2020 by AncientNewbie

[OutOfTheQuestion]

My problem is that Mario seems to find a lot of the World Apart characters funny in a "love to hate them" kind of way, whereas for me, most of the cast seemed like terrible people.

[AncientNewbie]

9 minutes ago, OutOfTheQuestion said:

My problem is that Mario seems to find a lot of the World Apart characters funny in a "love to hate them" kind of way, whereas for me, most of the cast seemed like terrible people.

 

I'd agree with that. I can't watch with that detachment, even in rewatch. I just never enjoy the bullying/harassment stuff even if there's a payoff.

[Guest]

It's a fine line with Mario sometimes. Rodney? Yes, I think he finds him humorous in a love to hate way. But it seems (to me at least) that he agrees that Dan was pretty terrible and deserved all the ridiculous moments that the show included - he just chooses to find the humor in it instead of turning away in disgust. And he's made some oblique comments addressing the Will/Shirin incident that indicate that he does not find what Will said at all funny (in one of his many Jenn posts, he had a screencap of her hugging Shirin as she was voted out, with the Mario-invented quote "F*** them, I know you have a soul.")

He at least acknowledges that many people found the season intolerable. But it's a tough one, for sure. I chose not to read his "character entries" on Randy or Kass because no, you can't convince me those two were funny. But I am getting some chuckles from the Worlds Apart posts so far.

Edited May 11, 2020 by tracyscott76
Word choice

[AncientNewbie]

1 hour ago, tracyscott76 said:

I chose not to read his "character entries" on Randy or Kass because no, you can't convince me those two were funny.

 

I'm with you other than I'm a masochist so I read them both. I recently posted somewhere here about how I was watching old seasons and the villains I hated seemed so small now that I knew who was going to win, and then I got to Gabon and it was just mean and ugly. I just have enough mean-spirited unpleasantness in my life without revisiting episodes of certain players in my down time.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, AncientNewbie said:

 

I'm with you other than I'm a masochist so I read them both. I recently posted somewhere here about how I was watching old seasons and the villains I hated seemed so small now that I knew who was going to win, and then I got to Gabon and it was just mean and ugly. I just have enough mean-spirited unpleasantness in my life without revisiting episodes of certain players in my down time.

Gabon will always be the worst for me. If Island of the Idols couldn't displace it with all of its crappy behavior, nothing will. IofI was a lot of bad reactions (by contestants and the show) to one person's sleaziness. Gabon was just a solid wall of unpleasant nastiness practically from beginning to end, top to bottom. Thank God for Susie.

[peachmangosteen]

I agree that Gabon was just full of shitty people but I still enjoy that season. Whatever! Or at least I do in theory, I've never rewatched it. Maybe it wouldn't be enjoyable now.

2 minutes ago, tracyscott76 said:

Thank God for Susie.

Yes! I'm still mad she didn't win. Fucking Bob. Worst winner ever.