Past Seasons Talk: The Tribe Has Spoken

[henripootel]

What I hated about this season with "Rob's Zombies" was that he was permitted to keep his followers separate  and isolated from the other players.  They never did a reward challenge where the tribe was divided up  and mixed into teams and the winners and losers separated for the day.  I cried foul on this and believe they wanted to hand Rob the win.  I'm new to this forum so apologies if this is perhaps considered a no-brainer or had been discussed ad-nauseum previously but just HAD to finally say it somewhere!!!

 

I agree that Rob used this to his advantage but I had trouble believing that this was the intent of (stupid) redemption island, which is why they didn't have time for a reward challenge (they combined reward+immunity all season).  That said, I thought it obvious that they really, really wanted Rob to win and hand-picked a team who'd help him do this.  I think this is the important factor because if Rob's team hadn't be so incredibly compliant, he would never have been able to get them to go along with his stupid hand-holding rule.  Any other team would have voted him out as soon as the could, much as Russell's team actually did, but Rob's team just dickered over who'd get to FTC with Rob.  

 

I also think they this is why they edited things carefully to imply that nobody knew Rob had a HII (the finding of which was another fish-smelling event) when it turns out that several folks, possibly everyone, knew.  It occurred that Rob's 'amazing social game' might look a tad paler were it known that he did more than just keep the HII out of play (which, in and of itself, was a pretty clever move).  

[LadyChatts]

Ian was my first-ever Survivor Boyfriend.  Still <3 him. 

 

On the weird season of Project Runway where they were split into 2 teams at the beginning, one team always lost and I started calling them Ulong on TWOP and only Oholibama got it :)  Ulonging can be entertaining, but probably no Ulong will ever match Matsing, where the survivors survived it all.  With actual Ulong, the fact that they were mostly annoying dopes who picked each other made it more fun.  But I felt bad for Angie, who is one of the forgotten Survivors I would love to see again.

 

I loved Angie!  Glad to see there's someone else who remembers her, and wishes she got another chance.  I find her very underrated, and she seemed like a lot of fun.  On paper, Ulong should have been the strong tribe.  They had the muscle of Jeff, Ibreham, Stephenie, and Bobby Jon, Angie certainly proved herself a strong physical competitor, and Jolanda looked to be in reasonably good shape.  The only weak links were Kim and Ashlee.  Compare that to Kuror, who had Caryn, Janu, Willard, Coby, Jenn, and Katie, with their only physical looking competitors being Tom, Greg, and Ian.  However, I am really surprised that this season of all seasons they didn't do a tribe swap.  I'm guessing TPTB loved Koror and its tribe of characters more than that of Ulong.  Except of course Queen Stephenie, who took a quick fall from grace in the two seasons she returned for.  I also didn't like the fact that school yard pick left two Survivors standing, with absolutely no chance to play the game.  I would have felt horrible giving up over a month of my life, maybe a job or whatever, only to go out there for a day and have it be over.  On the plus side, even though I didn't like Willard and thought Jonathan was somewhat awkward, it was refreshing to see one of the two oldest contestants out there wind up on a tribe, rather than have the two oldest contestants predictably both head back to loser lodge.  Once Jeff said that the two contestants not picked for a tribe would be out of the game, I thought for sure Willard and Wanda were done.

Edited September 28, 2015 by LadyChatts

[seasick]

I agree that Rob used this to his advantage but I had trouble believing that this was the intent of (stupid) redemption island, which is why they didn't have time for a reward challenge (they combined reward+immunity all season).  That said, I thought it obvious that they really, really wanted Rob to win and hand-picked a team who'd help him do this.  I think this is the important factor because if Rob's team hadn't be so incredibly compliant, he would never have been able to get them to go along with his stupid hand-holding rule.  Any other team would have voted him out as soon as the could, much as Russell's team actually did, but Rob's team just dickered over who'd get to FTC with Rob.  

 

I also think they this is why they edited things carefully to imply that nobody knew Rob had a HII (the finding of which was another fish-smelling event) when it turns out that several folks, possibly everyone, knew.  It occurred that Rob's 'amazing social game' might look a tad paler were it known that he did more than just keep the HII out of play (which, in and of itself, was a pretty clever move).  

I agree with the other advantages you pointed out, but to my knowledge this is the ONLY season where the merged tribe was not divided  into "teams" and the winning team whisked off to their reward and the tribe was divided and separated --and alliance members divided---for a long period of time    If this had happened players would have had an opportunity to be out from under Rob's control.  This never happened.  They were zombies yes.--.but hostages as well.!!    He was permitted to always have them together and separated from the other players and ALWAYS under his watchful eye.  I call bullshit on this.  I have never seen this.and it was to me the most obvious bias for handing him the win.    I don't consider them having to squeeze in RI as a viable excuse.  When they want to mix things up they do.  I don't think they even had a pecking order challenge either.  NOTHING where Rob wasn't in control or outed as to pecking order. (I still recall the one where one player had to give out food from (like) a steak to rice --revealing his pecking order. ( I think it was Rupert)    

 

   I may try to rewatch to check about the pecking-order challenge etc. but that season turned my stomach for it's obvious bias.  Rob's a good player--no doubt!!   But he got plenty of help.

Edited September 29, 2015 by seasick

[ByaNose]

Yeah, Tom did lose a few points with me when he guilted Ian. Especially, after that long (can't recall how long) Final II.

[kikaha]

I liked Ian so much I still hate Tom.  I hated how he emotionally manipulated Ian at the end.  

 

My memory is that Katie was the one who manipulated Ian, way more than Tom ever did, and she was the reason the two of them were squaring off against each other.  I felt at the time that Ian and Tom should have gone to F2 together, which would have made it a much better contest. 

[henripootel]

I may try to rewatch to check about the pecking-order challenge etc. but that season turned my stomach for it's obvious bias.  Rob's a good player--no doubt!!   But he got plenty of help.

I kinda doubt Rob's a good player.  He's an entertaining player, sure, and a charismatic one, but that doesn't make him actually good at Survivor.  I am reminded of the lengths that Jeff went to to lionized him long before he ever actually won.  He and Russell Hantz are, for me, the strongest argument for looking behind the edit rather than at it.  

[ProfCrash]

I kinda doubt Rob's a good player.  He's an entertaining player, sure, and a charismatic one, but that doesn't make him actually good at Survivor.  I am reminded of the lengths that Jeff went to to lionized him long before he ever actually won.  He and Russell Hantz are, for me, the strongest argument for looking behind the edit rather than at it.  

Amen.

[seasick]

I kinda doubt Rob's a good player.  He's an entertaining player, sure, and a charismatic one, but that doesn't make him actually good at Survivor.  I am reminded of the lengths that Jeff went to to lionized him long before he ever actually won.  He and Russell Hantz are, for me, the strongest argument for looking behind the edit rather than at it.  

I will willingly stand corrected because frankly I couldn't stand the guy!

 

My memory is that Katie was the one who manipulated Ian, way more than Tom ever did, and she was the reason the two of them were squaring off against each other.  I felt at the time that Ian and Tom should have gone to F2 together, which would have made it a much better contest. 

 

Katie .. another one I despised.  A full-of-herself do-nothing.

[peachmangosteen]

I liked Ian so much I still hate Tom. 

 

Yay, a Tom hater! My people! I thought I was the only one.

[ProfCrash]

Nope. I thought Tom was a bully and have no idea why people like him so much.

[Skeeter22]

Rob really hustled to give the impression that he was a great player. I remember his comments during the Rites of Passage segment of the finale in Heroes vs Villains. He said the players had gotten smarter because they finally realized they had to vote him out early. He went out pre-jury in Marquesas and played a proto-Hantz game in All Stars. I think he had no chance of winning Heroes vs Villains. His core alliance was Tyson, Sandra, and Courtney. They would have gleefully screwed him over after the merge.

[kikaha]

Looks like I'm in the minority here, because I think Rob is at least the second-best player in Survivor history.  On another day, I might say he's the best.  It's a tossup for me between Parvati and him: the most complete players ever, who can beat you in every aspect of the game.  

 

My guess is that other than that bone-headed self-eviction move Tyson made, Rob had a real good shot at winning HvV.  I also count his play in All Stars as the single greatest achievement in Survivor history... and his win at RI as the most dominating victory in Survivor history.  

 

C'est la vie, YMMV... 

[ProfCrash]

A great player needs to win in their first, maybe second game. I'll buy a second game winner because there is a possibility that someone ended up on an awful tribe the first time they played.

 

It took Rob four tries to win. Four. And he was put into a game with all newbies. And against a tribe with Russell on it. And Redemption Island, just in case he was voted out. I am not sure why they bothered playing the game and didn't just hand him the check.

 

Rob makes for good TV but he is not a great player. I expect that people who have played more then once should be in great shape against people who have never played before. It is why I tend to not like fan vs favorite type seasons. It is like having a Professional Football team, even a crappy one, play a College Football team. Not fair at all.

 

Rob couldn't win on a season with all newbies, he didn't win on seasons filled with past players. He had to play against newbies to win. I expect the Pro Team, even a sucky one like my Bears, to trounce a College Team. The Pros are faster, in better shape, and have more experience. Rob knew what he needed to do to win. He had time to practice his skills. He had a reputation that wasn't awful, unlike Russell.

 

Now, Kim had a dominant win. She survived being on a sucky opening tribe, got lucky (and luck always plays a role) with the idiocy that was Colton's game and the Men's tribe voting out one of their own when they didn't have to. But Kim played the swap alliances and merge alliance beautifully. That was dominant play and it was in her first season.

[kikaha]

Prof. C, I've heard those arguments about Rob before (plus many more), and they don't convince me.  I agree Kim is an outstanding player.  Would love to see her come back. 

 

btw, I really like that name, "Professor Crash."  It makes me think of a super villain in the Marvel comics universes. 

[Zuleikha]

I think Rob is great at the most television friendly aspects of the game. He's strong in challenges and around the camp and has enough charisma to assume a leadership role. But his social game is not adaptable or strong. People voted for AMBER over him for heaven's sake, and he couldn't win in three tries against peers. 

 

So I'm definitely in the camp that finds it ridiculous to talk about Rob as one of the best ever. IMHO, Sandra has to be acknowledged as the queen, with her unprecedented two wins and no losses. Her skills are not as television obvious as Rob's, but she is clearly a master at reading a room and keeping herself out of the line of fire. Sandra is the only person who could bluntly, directly put herself in opposition to Russell and have him not even go for her. And she won against two very different sets of players and twists. I don't think there is any winner who holds a candle to Sandra... isn't Parvati the only other winner to have even made it to the finals post-win?

 

I don't begrudge anyone their win but I think some winners fall bass-ackwards into it.

Fabio won. To me, that is all the evidence needed that luck sometimes plays a huge role in who wins or loses.

 

I do rank Yul quite highly, and I'm always surprised not to see him mentioned in lists of potential best of. He was lucky to have an overpowered HII, but he still used it masterfully. He was a strong physical competitor, a strong team leader, and he seemed to be good socially.

[cooksdelight]

I must have been asleep at the wheel at some point... I did not know Mike Skupin and his wife split, and he's got a blonde girlfriend named Tina. This has happened within the last year, I think.

[Jobiska]

The discussion of Amazon a couple of pages ago reminded me of Matt and how I (like the post upthread) never thought he was crazy and didn't get why people were characterizing him as such.  

I looked to see if he had a Facebook page, then saw Daniel Lue (first Amazon boot, also caught malaria there despite the preventive medication, if I recall correctly) on his friends list, and looked at his page and saw this picture.  

I enjoyed the comment thread and thought it was interesting who was tagged and who not.  

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10152576530855377&set=a.10151294409260377.807889.745780376&type=3&theater

 

Oh, and I'm sure Christy was sometimes difficult to be around, but one of the main things I remember was Jenna and Heidi judging her for not shaving her underarms, which I thought was pretty narrow-minded of them.  I've seen articles about Heidi recently that made me feel more positive about her (charities she's dedicated herself to in her position as the wife of pitcher Cole Hamels--seems much more involved than just a figurehead).  Jenna I haven't seen do anything that made me feel positive about her other than be supportive to Ethan through his health issues, back a bit.

Edited September 29, 2015 by Jobiska

[ljenkins782]

 

Nope. I thought Tom was a bully and have no idea why people like him so much.

I watched HvVs before I saw Palau and Tom instantly rubbed me the wrong way in that season (he seemed like another Andrew Savage type to me), but I quite liked him in Palau. Perhaps not so much that Ian moment, but apparently Ian was giving it back to him pretty hard as well. Sounds like an intense moment that just got out of control. 

 

On the plus side, even though I didn't like Willard and thought Jonathan was somewhat awkward, it was refreshing to see one of the two oldest contestants out there wind up on a tribe, rather than have the two oldest contestants predictably both head back to loser lodge.  Once Jeff said that the two contestants not picked for a tribe would be out of the game, I thought for sure Willard and Wanda were done.

 

Even though he turned out to be a cranky old man, I was so happy when Willard got picked over Jonathan. It helped that Jonathan seemed like kind of a dick when he got his 10 seconds of airtime at the reunion, so no big loss there. 

 

Felt sorry for Wanda, but that seemed inevitable. She probably would have been first boot if she had made it. Interestingly, I watched the first episode back on CBS All access and they cut Wanda's songs out of the episode. Wonder what that's about? 

 

However, I am really surprised that this season of all seasons they didn't do a tribe swap.  I'm guessing TPTB loved Koror and its tribe of characters more than that of Ulong.

 

I'm glad they never did, Koror (with a few exceptions) was so much more likeable/interesting and there's not a single person from Ulong that I wanted to see more of. Koror had a lot of people that were not only good TV, but seemed like people you might actually want to know in real life, like Tom, Ian, Gregg, Jen Lyon, even Katie (who I thought was funny). They were lucky that they got that mix of people on one island. 

 

I ran across a video of Ian on Youtube recently, he seems to have gone the non-profit, humanitarian route, which doesn't surprise me. He's also a great speaker and still very funny.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r1Tu5vVtI0g

 

I think Rob is great at the most television friendly aspects of the game. He's strong in challenges and around the camp and has enough charisma to assume a leadership role. But his social game is not adaptable or strong. People voted for AMBER over him for heaven's sake, and he couldn't win in three tries against peers.

 

I agree that he's got the TV/entertainment portion of the game down and I can't blame the show for bringing him back repeatedly because he plays both the game AND the TV show at the same time and fairly well. Even in the seasons where he went out early, he still had a strong impact on the episodes he was in. 

 

I also think he does have an adaptable social game (now), he is able to relate to a variety of people in very different ways and can lead diverse personalities. His worst social performance was easily Marquesas, he had the game figured out but couldn't tone down his more abrasive side enough to get people to follow him, but he definitely changed that up in future seasons. 

 

I was reminding myself of Jud's win (because I loved it, and was quite possibly alone in that) and read that Chase, whom he almost lost to, co-wrote Cruise, the hit for Florida Georgia Line.  Of course now that I look that up, I see it lists like 10 co-writers.

 

 

Jud's win was hilarious to me, he was so vacant and goofy. But since I couldn't really stand most of the others in that season, I was fine with the flaky doofus beating them all. 

[BigRedCheese]

 

It is like having a Professional Football team, even a crappy one, play a College Football team.

 

I think comparing Rob's season to NFL vs. College is being charitable to the extreme, it was more like NFL vs. Pee Wee League. Actually, it reminds me more of that episode of Seinfeld when Kramer was taking a karate class, and he was going on about he was dominating the class, and then when Jerry and Elaine show up to watch him, it turns out it's a children's karate class. Rob's got skills, no doubt, but it took him 4 tries, and a tribe packed with star struck fans to pull off a win. Definitely not anywhere approaching best player ever.

[cherrypj]

I don't get why people keep saying, "It took him four tries." Who cares? Flags fly forever.

I doubt that any other winner, Sandra being the lovely exception, could win more than once in four tries. Of course, we'll never know.

[KimberStormer]

Yeah, I think the anti-Rob contingent rather overstates things.  I still haven't seen All Stars, but by all accounts he ran that game, and you know, it seems to me that he actually did win, just one level more meta than other winners.  He didn't just beat the other players, he beat Burnett, by arranging it so that no matter who got the Sole Survivor title, Rob got both the million and the love of his life.  Who needs the jury, when you can transcend the game itself?  To me it's more, rather than less, impressive than a regular win.

 

Fabio winning was the only saving grace of Nicaragua, in my opinion; like Worlds Apart it was nothing but horrible people and one OK guy soon after the merge, and the OK guy won.  I find Fabio vastly more likeable than Mike, too.  And in a season where the boots and quits and really every event in the game followed no rhyme or reason whatever, Fabio the ultimate goof winning was the perfect "lol so random" ending.

[ByaNose]

And, Natalie Anderson saved her season with the vote off of Baylor. That wasn't until the Final 4. It was a great move and I'm glad she won because it sort of justified the season for me. I was actually shocked Fabio won because it came out of no where from what I remember. I'm not really sure if I wanted Chase to win or not but I certainly didn't think Fabio was going to win. There are some seasons where it all makes sense and there others when it's just what it is. That said, even a bad season of Survivor is better than anything else on tv. I can't imagine this show not on the air. I seriously would miss it with all my heart. Yes, I'm being melodramatic but I just fathom it and I often wonder if there would be a full seasons notice if the show was to be cancelled? Hopefully, that won't be anytime soon. LOL!!!!

[BigRedCheese]

 

I don't get why people keep saying, "It took him four tries." Who cares? Flags fly forever.

 

It only matters when you're talking about the best player, if it takes you four tries (and you also left out the other qualifiers he needed even at that), then you're not the best, not even one of the best in my book. But you're right, he won, he's a good player with skills, just nowhere near being one of the best players.

[henripootel]

We learned at the reunion he's not actually dumb at all.  He's said that being non-threatening until the end was his strategy.

Goof that he was, Jud's performance at FTC was actually pretty great.  His 'lots of people try to get here without betraying anybody - I actually did it' was fairly persuasive.  Lousy season but I had no problem with him winning.  And he was totally stoned at the reunion.

Yeah, I think the anti-Rob contingent rather overstates things.

I'm always surprised to hear 'not particularly liking Boston Rob' cast as being 'anti-Rob', like the only choices are either adoration or knee-jerk hate.  I'm kinda 'meh' overall, although I do think him seriously over-praised.  No, I'm not anti-rob, just have a limited appetite for cheeseball.  

Edited September 30, 2015 by henripootel

[KimberStormer]

Sorry, didn't mean to overstate it myself, just to quickly identify the group in question.

[seasick]

. Sandra is the only person who could bluntly, directly put herself in opposition to Russell and have him not even go for her.

Russell:  'You're either with me or you're against me!"

 

Sandra:    "I'm against you Russell"

[kikaha]

Russell:  'You're either with me or you're against me!"

 

Sandra:    "I'm against you Russell"

 

It was a great line, and I loved it, but by then it didn't matter.  Blind Russell had convinced himself Sandra was Goatie McGoat, who could get no votes from the jury.  He was going to take her to the end, no matter what she said. 

 

It's still a travesty to me that Sandra won HvV.  My view of All-Stars is exactly as KimberStormer said, i.e. that Rob's achievement there is more, not less, than a regular win.  The fact that he did it against most of the best players from Survivor to that point raises it even higher. 

[Lantern7]

I'm in the anti-Rob camp. I also think it's amazing Tom won S10 by winning all but two individual immunities, and not receiving a vote the times he was vulnerable. And he would've gotten the first unanimous vote if not for Coby, who was a bit of a hater. I did like him naming his adopted child after Janu, though. I wonder if they're still close.

[Zuleikha]

He didn't just beat the other players, he beat Burnett, by arranging it so that no matter who got the Sole Survivor title, Rob got both the million and the love of his life.  Who needs the jury, when you can transcend the game itself?

Rob and Amber fell in love, which is great. But that's not something Rob arranged or controlled any more than Amber did. It was an impossible-to-plan lucky bit of fate that both Rob and Amber benefited from.

[kikaha]

Zuleikha, Rob didn't plan it, but it happened, and because of that he made the conscious choice to bring Amber with him as far he could go, come hell or high water.  No couple has ever done that on Survivor, before or since.  One or both members usually get targeted and tossed pretty early on.  Jon and Jaclyn are sort of an exception to that, but they played on a season of pairs, and didn't make it to the end anyway, and neither won. 

 

Rob took himself to the end.  He took the women he had come to love (and who loved him; this was not just game play) to the end.  They are the only team to make it to finals.  They guaranteed themselves both the win and second place.  Then they married, had kids, built careers around all this, appear happy together, making an adventure of life in a way few people get to experience or enjoy. 

 

Of course it's just my opinion, but I think Rob could have easily won that season.  Instead he chose Amber and together they won a bigger prize than probably anyone who has played the game. 

[cherrypj]

Then they married, had kids, built careers around all this, appear happy together, making an adventure of life in a way few people get to experience or enjoy. 

 

Call me a romantic sap, but that's exactly why I'm in the Rob (and Amber) camp. No matter what they might be doing on whatever show, I always think about this. And I like both of them for it.

 

That said, if I were ever foolish enough to go on Survivor, he would be my first vote.

[ProfCrash]

I like Rob but I don't think he is a great winner. He is a fun character and a solid player but he is not a great winner. He is also a bit of a reality TV whore, four Survivors, 2 Amazing Races, and they had that poker show. I think he has a wonderful life and I am thrilled that he has parlayed his first appearence on a TV show into such a great life but he is not a great Survivor winner.

[peachmangosteen]

IMHO, Sandra has to be acknowledged as the queen, with her unprecedented two wins and no losses. Her skills are not as television obvious as Rob's, but she is clearly a master at reading a room and keeping herself out of the line of fire. Sandra is the only person who could bluntly, directly put herself in opposition to Russell and have him not even go for her. And she won against two very different sets of players and twists. I don't think there is any winner who holds a candle to Sandra.

 

+1. Sandra played twice, she won twice. Like how is it even arguable that she is the best player?

 

I like Rob but I don't think he is a great winner. He is a fun character and a solid player but he is not a great winner.

 

This. I always liked Rob. I don't even want to like him, but I always catch myself enjoying him. But he wasn't a great player imo. An ok-good one, sure, but if it takes you four tries and the most aggressive help from Production that I've ever seen to win then you can't be listed as one of the greats.

Edited September 30, 2015 by peachmangosteen

[henripootel]

He didn't just beat the other players, he beat Burnett, by arranging it so that no matter who got the Sole Survivor title, Rob got both the million and the love of his life.  Who needs the jury, when you can transcend the game itself?

Yeah, about that.  Rob didn't 'beat Burnett' in doing this - he gave the producers everything they could ever want (meaning 'publicity publicity publicity'), and they rewarded him by (brace for an unpopular opinion) letting he and Amber cheat to win.  I am not anti-love but players are forbidden from making deals about dividing up the prize money, and this is one that they apparently take seriously.  Except this time.  They could have handled this in other ways to keep things fair for the other contestants but what they did do was trumpet this as one of the greatest Survivor moments ev-ah.  

[loki567]

I don't know about all this, "Rob chose true love," stuff, Rob has said in interviews that he wasn't even sure if he and Amber would speak again after the season. He took her because he would have lost to Rupert, Jenna, or Tom. He basically had no chance, but Amber was his best chance. 

 

I always felt Rob got screwed in All-Stars, considering Chapera had the numbers, the producers "randomly," decided to split the two tribes into even numbers, giving Lex and Kathy one more shot to even things out before the merge. And call it love, emotion, or strategy, they basically forced Rob's hand to make a deal that cost him the game. I always found it suspicious, especially since an ex-Survivor (I think it was Jerri) said the producers controlled who landed on what tribe during the flip.  

[KimberStormer]

Yeah, about that.  Rob didn't 'beat Burnett' in doing this - he gave the producers everything they could ever want (meaning 'publicity publicity publicity'),

 

That is in fact exactly what I mean.  If you don't see how that means masterful manipulation, I don't know how to explain it to you.

 

EDIT: well OK let me try.  If Rob does what he did in such a way that Burnett doesn't like it, as you say, it would probably be very easy to stop him and Amber from getting the prize.  But do it in such a way that he thinks he's won, and Rob laughs all the way to the bank.  See?  It's just like the jury--you don't rub it in people's face.  You make them say "thank you for beating me."  Russell would be like "IN YOUR FACE PROBST!  TO HELL WITH YOUR RULES!!! HAHAHA!!!!" but Rob knows what he's doing.

Edited September 30, 2015 by KimberStormer

[pennben]

Oh, I can't bite on that theory Kimber. 

Edited September 30, 2015 by pennben

[henripootel]

Are you suggesting Rob and Amber married to get around the rule against sharing winnings?

 

That is in fact exactly what I mean.  If you don't see how that means masterful manipulation, I don't know how to explain it to you.

I'm not, but I think Kimber is.  I'm saying that them getting married may well have violated the rules about sharing winnings.  Depends on when they got together on this - if it was during the game (and I seem to recall Rob saying something to the effect of 'either I'll win or she will and we'll share it') then it's collusion.  Again, not anti-love, but there are lots of ways they could have dealt with this to keep things fair, and they didn't do any of them.

 

Oh, and Kimber, if what you mean to suggest is that Rob, while in no way an extraordinary Survivor player, is an extraordinary fame whore?  I completely agree.  Seriously and honestly, my hat is off to him.  He got a nice living out of it and (apparently) a solid family too.  Good for him.

 

ETA:

If Rob does what he did in such a way that Burnett doesn't like it, as you say, it would probably be very easy to stop him and Amber from getting the prize.  But do it in such a way that he thinks he's won, and Rob laughs all the way to the bank.

Hence "cheat to win".   Good on Rob for getting the producers to go along with it, but it's still (arguably) cheating.

Edited September 30, 2015 by henripootel

[ljenkins782]

 

I'm not, but I think Kimber is.  I'm saying that them getting married may well have violated the rules about sharing winnings.  Depends on when they got together on this - if it was during the game (and I seem to recall Rob saying something to the effect of 'either I'll win or she will and we'll share it') then it's collusion.  

My recollection of his comment was more along the lines of "Hey, it'd be nice to get the girl AND the million dollars" which I took to mean that he wanted to win but also wanted to be with Amber after the show. It sounded like a response to a producer questioning whether he was ruining his shot at winning by playing an emotional game. 

 

Their story could have taken a dramatically different turn if he (or she) had gone back on their word and cut the other loose before the finals and it doesn't seem like either one was willing to risk that (though Amber had a better reason to take Rob than Rob had to take her, so her decision could have been pure gameplay.) 

 

He is a fun character and a solid player but he is not a great winner. He is also a bit of a reality TV whore, four Survivors, 2 Amazing Races, and they had that poker show. I think he has a wonderful life and I am thrilled that he has parlayed his first appearence on a TV show into such a great life but he is not a great Survivor winner.

 

I can't fault him for taking the reality TV offers that come in, nice work if you can get it. Rob C has built his entire life around his Survivor fame as well and good for him too, probably beats whatever he was doing before. He's one I don't expect to see again because I think a failure on the show itself would be damaging to his "know-it-all" brand.

 

I can't get too worked up about whether someone was a "good winner" from their time on the show, but there are indisputably certain characters that are indelibly associated with the Survivor brand and Boston Rob is definitely one of them. I do think more opportunities spring out of that than from actually winning the show and will probably outlast that million dollar check. 

 

Yeah, about that.  Rob didn't 'beat Burnett' in doing this - he gave the producers everything they could ever want (meaning 'publicity publicity publicity'),

 

That is in fact exactly what I mean.  If you don't see how that means masterful manipulation, I don't know how to explain it to you.

EDIT: well OK let me try.  If Rob does what he did in such a way that Burnett doesn't like it, as you say, it would probably be very easy to stop him and Amber from getting the prize.  But do it in such a way that he thinks he's won, and Rob laughs all the way to the bank.  See?  It's just like the jury--you don't rub it in people's face.  You make them say "thank you for beating me."  Russell would be like "IN YOUR FACE PROBST!  TO HELL WITH YOUR RULES!!! HAHAHA!!!!" but Rob knows what he's doing.

I disagree that it would have been easy to stop them from getting the prize, they married quite awhile after Amber got her money and I can't imagine what in the contract would stop her from getting a joint checking account with her husband after winning a tv show. 

 

However, I do agree with the general idea that Rob is conscious of the producer end of things and acts accordingly for his future benefit. Even if they "handed him the win" in RI, at least they actually made him PLAY, unlike their other pet, Rupert, who was literally handed a million dollars for...? Still not sure for what. 

 

[KimberStormer]

I don't think they married for the winnings either, I think Rob fell in love and wanted to ask her, and figured out how that could work so that everybody wins--him, Amber, the producers, CBS.  Really I think if they weren't obviously in love, the plan wouldn't succeed.  I believe Rob asked her at the reunion, before the votes were read?  If, like, Cook Islands was a Final 2, and Yul married Becky (who he clearly liked but didn't love) as a sort of business arrangement so that they could split the winnings, I think Burnett might well have said, "Well OK Yul you win, but we have a rule against sharing the prize, so you don't get any money."  But he wasn't going to do that in the face of true love!  (Cheating is in the eye of the producers, it's not an objective fact.  I do agree that it would be impossible to legally forbid the contestants from marrying.)

 

Really, I think Rob did it all for Amber, in a lot of ways.  It reminds me of Cagayan where apparently some of the couples had planned to have one of member voted out so they could have a guaranteed vote at final.  If that had been the thing that would be best for the family that Rob wanted to have with Amber, I'm sure he would have done that.  But in that season, with a Final 2, there was a better choice, and one which gave them both a great life.  "Fame whore" is a kind of bullshit concept in my opinion; I'd rather say it like kikaha, that they've got themselves a fun exciting life out of Survivor.  And Survivor has benefitted from Rob.  Just because someone wins, it doesn't mean someone else loses...

[pennben]

 

If, like, Cook Islands was a Final 2, and Yul married Becky (who he clearly liked but didn't love) as a sort of business arrangement so that they could split the winnings, I think Burnett might well have said, "Well OK Yul you win, but we have a rule against sharing the prize, so you don't get any money." But he wasn't going to do that in the face of true love!  (Cheating is in the eye of the producers, it's not an objective fact.  I do agree that it would be impossible to legally forbid the contestants from marrying.)

 

So, in your scenario, Yul announced to Burnett that he was making a business arrangement?  Thus Burnett refused to pay the winner?  Or Yul/Becky divorced after a short time and Burnett asked for the money back? Or Burnett gets to decide who is truly in love and whether a marriage is worthy of being out of the 'no sharing winnings' rule? This is a weird argument to me, although I generally love your thoughts on the show Kimber.

 

I think it is great that Rob/Amber found love on the show and have a wonderful life, but I don't really view that as a strategy by Rob at any point in the All-Star season (other than Amber being a solid alliance-mate).  It was something that happened, and honestly I'm not sure Rob took Amber to the finals for love, or for misreading the room in thinking he could beat her in the finals. 

Edited September 30, 2015 by pennben

[henripootel]

Just because someone wins, it doesn't mean someone else loses...

Not to be contrarian but I'm pretty sure that's exactly what it means.

I believe Rob asked her at the reunion, before the votes were read?

I honestly didn't see this one live but is there even a chance that this wasn't a wholly scripted event?  I don't mean that Rob wouldn't have proposed at some point to the woman he loved, but every 'spontaneous' thing I've ever seen on any of the reunion shows has looked nauseatingly scripted.  If you're considering the timing of this proposal as indicative of anything at all, I'd bet everything I own against a potato that it was timed to support whatever narrative the producers were pushing and nothing more.

"Fame whore" is a kind of bullshit concept in my opinion

I'll leave this to no less august a body than the Urban Dictionary:

 

"Fame Whore

An individual who is willing to do anything, regardless of how humiliating or demeaning, to achieve notoriety.

More often than not, this involves appearing on multiple reality television shows and/or having "private" sex videos "leaked" to the press."

 

No sex tape that I'm aware of but the other parts sound vaguely familiar ...

ETA:

So, in your scenario, Yul announced to Burnett that he was making a business arrangement?  Thus Burnett refused to pay the winner?

If I'm reading Kimber correctly, I agree with her.  I think the producers took the 'romantic' take on Rob n' Amber, and used it for their own reasons.  I think that, given other people but exactly the same circumstances, they might see things differently.  What if the couple had been Colton and (somebody equally as opprobrious, not Colton's actual boyfriend who turned out to be a pretty solid bloke)?  Not sure Burnett would be so quick to pay for the wedding. 

Edited September 30, 2015 by henripootel

[Nashville]

I doubt there could even legally be a rule about who winners could marry after the show is over.

There can't be. IIRC the legal term is "agreements affecting marriage", and any such agreements are illegal in all 50 states. For or against, doesn't matter.

[Jersey Guy 87]

However, I do agree with the general idea that Rob is conscious of the producer end of things and acts accordingly for his future benefit. Even if they "handed him the win" in RI, at least they actually made him PLAY, unlike their other pet, Rupert, who was literally handed a million dollars for...? Still not sure for what. 

 

I  believe they gave Rupert a million dollars for being Rupert and they thought he was someone America loved.

[Zuleikha]

The main thing I'm pushing against in the "Rob outwitted the game of Survivor" narrative of Amber's victory on All-Stars is that it feels like Amber is being treated like a trophy in this narrative. Rob didn't take Amber to the Final 3. They took each other. They were strategy partners and chose to stick with each other because they could trust each other/fell in love. It was a mutually beneficial relationship. Rob had the showier role for TV, but Amber made choices as well and is the one who ultimately won (and also got a true love and a family).

 

Rob technically took Amber to the final 2 because he's the one who won the immunity challenge, but she almost talked Rob into giving up the challenge. If it hadn't been for Probst's intervention, it almost certainly would have been Amber taking Rob. Both of them would have taken the other out of love and mutual self-interest. Neither would have beat Jenna. Rob couldn't have beat anyone, and Amber could only beat Rob. They had to do it exactly the way they did.

 

We're also not privvy to Amber/Rob's financials. In theory, Amber could have worked with a financial advisor/lawyer to keep her million separate from joint marital assets. I doubt that she did because Amber doesn't seem the type to worry about divorce and they seem like more of a joint assets type of couple, but none of us really know. However, had things turned sour in the relationship, Amber is the one who would have kept the million and Rob is the one who would have been out both love and money.

[henripootel]

However, had things turned sour in the relationship, Amber is the one who would have kept the million and Rob is the one who would have been out both love and money.

 

Wow, I thought I was the one coming off as cynical for suggesting Rob let the producers plan his nuptials as a product tie-in, but a pre-nup never entered into my thinking.  Silly old romantic, me, but I'm not saying you're wrong.  Did occur to me to wonder how well things might have worked out if Rob had won, with a hot million in his pocket and new reality-show fame.  Might give a man ideas.

[Zuleikha]

If it wasn't clear, I meant the "had things turned sour" to refer to the two of them breaking up prior to getting married. Rob would have had no claim on Amber's million at that point. I very much doubt Amber did anything to separate out her prize money from their joint marital assets. They just don't seem like that type of couple.

 

But she could have. We don't know. And I wouldn't consider it being cynical if she did. Marriages do end sometimes, and it is her prize. Nothing wrong with protecting one's assets.

[henripootel]

Don't get me wrong, Zuleikha, I wasn't questioning the logic or the wisdom of your speculation, which seems pretty spot-on to me. 

[ProfCrash]

In most states marriage means that all assests are shared equally unless stated in a prenup. I seriously doubt Survivor would go after anyone who got married and divorced.

I am happy Rob and Amber found love. I could careless about how the money was used. This started as a discussion of how great a player Rob is.

He lost his first three outings and won his fourth. His All Stars appearence was good but he knew he couldn't win because he angered so many folks. That is a sign of poor game play to me. His win cones from newbies that he guided brilliantly. I put him at the middle of the pack in terms of Survivor winners.

[pennben]

This started as a discussion of how great a player Rob is.

 

 

Hee!!!  So, one episode in, we've got "treemailgate" and "braceletgate" from this season and "marriagegate" from a past season.  Wheeee!!  Thank god we have a new episode tonight!