The Rocky Saga

[methodwriter85]

In the sequels, I really, really want to see them address Philadelphia gentrification tensions going on now. The first movie had white flight in the background; this is an interesting twist on that.

Edited December 5, 2015 by methodwriter85

[Shannon L.]

 

I think it helped that someone else wrote this because while I don't think Sly is a bad guy or anything, I have a sense that he does have an ego, and anytime he's heavily involved in the writing, he tends to make his characters seem larger then life.

It's been a long time since I've seen the first two , but Stallone wrote both of those, and Rocky wasn't larger than life in either one, so he's definitely capable of keeping his ego (which I also sense that he has) out of his movies.  I think he just got caught up on the action hero thing and went with it.  As far as the acting, he was in a movie called Copland in 1997 and, IIRC, he got praise for his work in that one, too.

[Racj82]

It's been a long time since I've seen the first two , but Stallone wrote both of those, and Rocky wasn't larger than life in either one, so he's definitely capable of keeping his ego (which I also sense that he has) out of his movies. I think he just got caught up on the action hero thing and went with it. As far as the acting, he was in a movie called Copland in 1997 and, IIRC, he got praise for his work in that one, too.

Rocky 1 and 2 are a long time ago and don't really apply now. He made his fame in the wake of the movies. Look at those first two movies and watch even part 4 where he ended the cold war. Stallone is always best with the right support team. He got it right here. Plus he found someone who's young and hungry like he once was. Makes a huge difference.

[Shannon L.]

I can't argue with any of that, Racj82.  I was just responding to the part about his writing--we know he's capable of good writing because of Rocky I and II.  I probably should have left out the acting/Copland comment, because that kind of performance was rare for Stallone during the height of his popularity.

Edited December 5, 2015 by Shannon L.

[Rick Kitchen]

Great movie.  Tessa Thompson is beautiful, of course.  But you know what got me?  The entire fight with Leo the Lion, which at least looked like it was shot in one take.  That was some great direction.  Sly was awesome, and I totally endorse an Oscar nomination for him. And the music really supported the film.  Loved the scene with the guys on the motor scooters pacing Adonis on his run.

[methodwriter85]

It was a great in-joke, because those motorbikes/scotters are thing in Philly. I remember awhile back, there was talk about trying to ban them.

[Racj82]

It was a great in-joke, because those motorbikes/scotters are thing in Philly. I remember awhile back, there was talk about trying to ban them.

I feel like its a East coast thing at this point. Here in Jersey this a issue as well. Loud as fuck at all hours of the night.

The moment when you see a flash of Apollo Creed at Adonis wakes up is my favorite movie moment of the year.

[benteen]

Stallone was nominated for a Golden Globe today!

[benteen]

That punch that Adonis takes in the 11th round?  Jordan took that punch for real...

 

http://www.ew.com/article/2015/12/10/michael-b-jordan-creed-punch-video

[GodsBeloved]

 I was also sad when Rocky was talking about his son knowing that his son in real life died a few years ago.  

Plus they showed a picture of "Rocky and Jr" ie Sly and Sage who played Jr in V.

Edited December 14, 2015 by GodsBeloved

[SuburbanHangSuite]

Just saw Creed last weekend and it did not disappoint! And this from the woman who rolled her eyes during the first Creed trailer. I couldn't imagine that there was anywhere else to go with that story...so glad I was wrong. And I thought the Sly Oscar talk was just a nod to his career/longevity and "won't it be quaint to nominate Sly for this beloved, iconic character a la Fast Eddie Felson?" Wrong again! That Oscar talk is well deserved and if he's nominated, he'll be my choice to win.

Loved how they incorporated some really Philly flavor in the script. Donnie getting schooled about jawns...hahaha..perfect!

And those ATVs might be cinematically cool but they are straight-up menaces in real life. No shit, a wave of those little bastards came down the center of the southbound lanes on Broad St. one Saturday POPPING WHEELIES. I was going Northbound but I couldn't believe what I was seeing. One false move and they could be squashed instantly while traumatizing some poor driver forever. Assholes. And they do it because the cops aren't permitted to give chase in the interest of public safety. I just hope them being featured in Creed doesn't make them any more popular.

[Eegah]

I just rewatched the first film, specifically trying to think about what I would make of it if I had seen it on its original release as a standalone work, with no familiarity with the character (I managed to watch the second and third films as a kid before going back to it). And what really stood out to me is that Rocky comes off as quite a pushy jerk for the whole first half. He acts like his generosity in giving Adrian the time of day entitles him to sex with her (the scene where he complains to Paulie that his lame jokes haven't gotten him anything from her would undoubtedly include the word "friendzone" if it was written today), he has no problem with Paulie throwing her turkey into the alley and bullying her into going on a date, he spends that whole date yammering on and on about himself while hardly seeming to care if Adrian has anything to add to the conversation, and finally he absolutely refuses to take no for an answer when Adrian doesn't want to come up to his apartment. Luckily he improves after that point, and you can probably chalk a lot of this up to different standards in the '70s (though it's undoubtedly to me a good thing that this has changed).

[Laurie4H]

Eegah, you make good points I never thought of but yes the standards probably were different then....I wish that movies nowadays had a kiss as romantic as theirs though....I much rather watch people fall to the floor like they did than the cliche women jumping up and wrapping her legs around the guy that they use too much in movies and TV these days. What I really liked about Creed is how Adonis sought out Rocky and not the other way around and how their characters were good people who rooted for each other.

Edited January 1, 2016 by Laurie4H

[thuganomics85]

Don't want to get my hopes up, but seeing Sly win the Globes and standing ovation from the crowd that really seemed genuine, gives me hope that he will pull it off come Oscar time.  He clearly seems touched over the new life the character of Rocky has been given, and how people are responding to it.  Again, massive credit to him and Ryan Coogler for going there with the Rocky character.

[SeanC]

Supporting Actor is confusingly scattered right now, but I think Stallone is a real contender.

 

At the moment it feels like this is one of those cases where all the awards love has gotten fixated on one part of a film, because Creed as a whole really hasn't taken off, to date, like I thought it might.  Kris Tapley at Variety seems to think it's still in play to surprise when the nominations come out; I think Jordan is likely a bridge too far at this point, but I'd like if they could get an Adapted Screenplay nomination (the apparent resurgence of Steve Jobs may prove an additional obstacle to that).

[benteen]

I was glad to see Sly win last night and the crowd reaction was great.  I do hope Creed gets even more recognition. 

[Traveller519]

Between the Press vote and the industry support in the room, I'd take it as a very good sign for Stallone with the Oscar Noms. It was a great moment as he seemed genuinely surprised.

[benteen]

Tony Burton, who played Duke in the first six Rocky movies has passed away at the age of 78.

 

RIP.

 

http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/real-time/Tony-Burton-Rocky-actor-who-played-trainer-in-films-dead-at-78.html

[VCRTracking]

RIP. Besides the Rocky movies he was also in the original Assault on Precinct 13 and the short lived series Frank's Place. Here's my favorite scene of "Duke", from Rocky II:

 

[benteen]

I got Creed on Blu-ray the other day.  Not a lot of special features on it but it does contain almost 20 minutes of deleted scenes.  Many of them are quite good but it's understandable why all of them were cut out.

[fishcakes]

I saw Creed last night and I loved it, but it made me sad to see, I don't know, the march of time, I guess. Not just that Rocky is an old man, but it killed me how clean and well-lit Goldmill's gym is now. I thought Rocky Balboa was a fitting end to the series, but maybe this one works better in that regard. Adonis's story is similar to Rocky's, not in details, but thematically. The one thing that detracted from the movie for me was Phylicia Rashad. I've never thought she was a particularly good actress, but it's even harder to look at her now after hearing that interview where she talks about Cosby's fucking legacy being more important than "these women." I don't know why Stallone didn't bring back one of the two other actresses who played Mary Anne; Sylvia Meals is rumored to be deceased, but Lavelle Roby is still acting.

 

I saw the first Rocky in the theater when it came out. I was 13 and must have gone back to see it five or six times. I haven't seen it in years now, but my favorite line will always be when Adrian says that she's uncomfortable because she's never been in a man's apartment before, and Rocky, standing next to the water heater with the dirty mattress wrapped around it, replies, "they're all the same." Also, sometimes I will just randomly remember that United Artists wanted to buy the script, but didn't want Stallone to play Rocky because they wanted Ryan O'Neal to play him, and I laugh and laugh.

 

Rocky II is almost as good as the original, but III and IV are where it starts to get really cartoonish. I still enjoyed them, but the fight scenes in particular were ... unlikely. And unpopular opinion, but I didn't hate Rocky V. It wasn't a great movie, but I don't think that it was that much worse than III and IV.  Rocky Balboa would have been a lovely and fitting end; I liked that Paulie gets redeemed, not by any big deed, but by becoming less bitter and more accepting of where his life settled. I think I'll wait until they come out with the umpteenth DVD box set that includes Creed, which is most likely going to be the last film in the series, and then do a marathon rewatch.

[Shannon L.]

Rocky: An Oral History

There is a lot of great stuff in here that I thought you all might enjoy.  And Cuff and Link are still alive!  :)

Edited December 5, 2016 by Shannon L.

[methodwriter85]

Sly is apparently writing the script for Creed 2 and has hinted that Drago is set to return.

Not sure about this. I thought Creed did a great job of standing alone and being its own thing while having strands from the Rocky saga so I'm not sure if I want to see Drago coming back.

Edited August 15, 2017 by methodwriter85

[Raja]

7 hours ago, methodwriter85 said:

Sly is apparently writing the script for Creed 2 and has hinted that Drago is set to return.

Not sure about this. I thought Creed did a great job of standing alone and being its own thing while having strands from the Rocky saga so I'm not sure if I want to see Drago coming back.

You would think that loyalty to his friends should be limited to the occasional Expendables gig. I guess Creed is going to go the route of the rest  Rocky franchise and who knows when Michael B. Jordan is a senior he could turn the franchise back around again for a third generation.

[benteen]

On ‎8‎/‎15‎/‎2017 at 1:26 AM, methodwriter85 said:

Sly is apparently writing the script for Creed 2 and has hinted that Drago is set to return.

Not sure about this. I thought Creed did a great job of standing alone and being its own thing while having strands from the Rocky saga so I'm not sure if I want to see Drago coming back.

If Drago wasn't such a cartoon character, having Adonis confront him would be great.  But Drago is a cartoon character that doesn't fit the tone of Creed. 

Sly usually doesn't follow up his good work with better stuff and if this was the next movie, this would be a great example of that.

[VCRTracking]

Great interview with late Rocky director John G. Avildsen from 2014:

Excerpt:

Quote

 

I think it’s not just the “Gonna Fly Now” theme, it’s the fight music, the music with Adrian…

Oh, absolutely. He could have played the whole thing on the piano. He’s a great piano player but while the rehearsal of the fight was going on, I shot it with my little 8mm camera and I would project it on my 8mm projector, slow it down and play Beethoven behind it for Bill Conti. I said, “See. See this music, this beautiful classical music?” It was the 6th Symphony. I said, “That’s the kind of sound I want behind it because it’s going to move it up. It’s going to bring it to another level.” Bill, having been a director at Juilliard, loved classical music and he said, “Okay, that’s what we’ll do.”

When we were recording that “Gonna Fly Now,” which was going to be the training montage, it wasn’t a song originally. I heard it and I said, “Bill, you gotta put some words to that thing. That thing sounds like a song.” So there were a few people in the studio and they got together and they sang it. That’s where the song came from.

 

Read more at http://www.craveonline.com/site/664903-exclusive-interview-john-g-avildsen-on-rocky-and-the-karate-kid/2#bAbct7oTpjI4GEcX.99

[methodwriter85]

11 hours ago, benteen said:

If Drago wasn't such a cartoon character, having Adonis confront him would be great.  But Drago is a cartoon character that doesn't fit the tone of Creed. 

Sly usually doesn't follow up his good work with better stuff and if this was the next movie, this would be a great example of that.

Yeah. That's kind of the problem I'm having with it, unless they vastly revise his character but I don't know if Dolph Lundgren is capable of playing a rugged, gritty character. He seems to have mostly been stuck in B movies playing campy characters.

They've also kind of hemmed and hawed about Ryan Coogler coming back to direct. Which is crazy- the studio should be begging and crawling for Ryan to come back. I can't see Creed working without Ryan Coogler directing Micheal B. Jordan.

[benteen]

13 hours ago, methodwriter85 said:

Yeah. That's kind of the problem I'm having with it, unless they vastly revise his character but I don't know if Dolph Lundgren is capable of playing a rugged, gritty character. He seems to have mostly been stuck in B movies playing campy characters.

They've also kind of hemmed and hawed about Ryan Coogler coming back to direct. Which is crazy- the studio should be begging and crawling for Ryan to come back. I can't see Creed working without Ryan Coogler directing Micheal B. Jordan.

Agreed 100%.  Coogler, along with Jordan and Stallone of course, helped make the Rocky franchise a legit contender again, no pun intended.

Drogo is noticeably never mentioned in Creed although Apollo's death in the ring is.  Because again, Drogo is a throwback to the 80s evil Russian supervillain, which doesn't fit with a movie like Creed.

Edited August 17, 2017 by benteen

[methodwriter85]

On 8/17/2017 at 10:22 AM, benteen said:

Agreed 100%.  Coogler, along with Jordan and Stallone of course, helped make the Rocky franchise a legit contender again, no pun intended.

Drogo is noticeably never mentioned in Creed although Apollo's death in the ring is.  Because again, Drogo is a throwback to the 80s evil Russian supervillain, which doesn't fit with a movie like Creed.

If Drago is rewritten as being a sad, broken man abandoned by his country, and Dolph is actually able to act that, it could work. But I'm worried all that anti-Russian sentiment that seems to be getting stirred up right now is going to influence Creed 2 into being written as "America fuck yeah" propaganda like Rocky IV was.

But in any event, Stallone is hinting at a 2018 release. I'm not sure that's going to be remotely possible, but we'll see.

I wonder if Claire Huxtable is going to come back? Or any of Apollo's "legitimate" kids? (I just looked it up and apparently the woman who played Mary Anne twice died in 2011, so  I guess that's why they got Claire Huxtable.)

Edited September 6, 2017 by methodwriter85

[methodwriter85]

I kind of figured this was coming when I saw that he wrote the sequel:

Sylvester Stallone Will Direct Creed 2

I really, really hope that this won't be a rehash of 4. We'll see.

[benteen]

Well, Stallone did a good job directing Rocky Balboa.  But I'd worry more about him writing it than anything else...no doubt this means bringing back cartoon character Ivan Drago, who does not fit in with the more realistic world of Creed.

[benteen]

If the Drago thing was a subplot, it might work.  But geez...I'd want to stay away from those 80s Rocky movies as much as possible.

[VCRTracking]

From Just Write's channel "What Writers Should Learn From (the original) Rocky":

 

I did notice that it takes an hour for the "inciting incident"(Rocky being picked to fight Apollo) to happen and the actual plot of the movie to start. Up to that point it's all about his everyday life.

[Shannon L.]

I have a soft spot for Sylvester Stallone, but can acknowledge that not all of his movies are winners.  I just hope he can get back that spark he had when writing Rocky I and II (which I also loved) because Creed was really good and deserves a great sequel.

[xaxat]

Very disappointed Coogler is not directing. I think he is the better filmmaker. 

[BetterButter]

Sundance Veteran Steven Caple Jr To Direct CREED 2

[methodwriter85]

I'm guessing it's a combination of realizing that he really does need to pass the torch, and the fact that Sly is dealing with sexual harassment allegations? (Although for now, this one doesn't seem to be getting much traction. )

Drago still seems like he's going to be a big part of the plot.

Edited December 15, 2017 by methodwriter85

[xaxat]

A Creed/Drago confrontation is going to be intense. 

[BetterButter]

'Creed 2' Casts Boxer Florian Munteanu as Ivan Drago's Son

[Trini]

[bluvelvet]

I’m looking forward to this, I have a soft spot for Rocky IV. 

[VCRTracking]

3 hours ago, bluvelvet said:

I’m looking forward to this, I have a soft spot for Rocky IV. 

So do I. I first watched it on HBO when I was a kid and it was the first Rocky movie I saw.

This parody of ESPN's 30 for 30 from a few years ago made me laugh though:

[BetterButter]

[HunterHunted]

On 8/11/2018 at 8:03 AM, bluvelvet said:

I’m looking forward to this, I have a soft spot for Rocky IV. 

I just want to know what happened to Paulie's robot wife?

We know that he'd been dead for a couple of years by the time of Creed. Do they make widow's weeds for robots? Or does she just get a black gloss paint job?

In Rocky Balboa, Paulie was back working at the meat processing job. Maybe his robot wife visited him one day at work, fell for a meat processing robot, and left Paulie, which broke his heart and he went back to drinking heavily and died.

[BetterButter]

[methodwriter85]

It really kind of bugs me that Creed II still hasn't addressed where Apollo's kids with Mary Ann are. I could buy that they want nothing to do with Donny, and had a falling out with Mary Ann when she brought him to live with them, but it'd be nice to have at least some kind of throwaway line.

My theory was that one or both of them died and that's what spurred Mary Ann to find Donny, but that got blown when we saw his grave. I feel like any dead half-siblings would have been brought up there.

I did like how they wrote the Dragos. Fleshed out well enough that I felt like I understand what their motivations were, but didn't overwhelm the story.

Edited November 23, 2018 by methodwriter85

[benteen]

Yeah, I've been curious too about what Apollo's other children think of Donnie.

[Jeebus Cripes]

I'm glad you guys are mentioning these other Creed kids. I almost thought I'd imagined they existed, in spite of seeing Rocky IV probably 80 times in my life.

[VCRTracking]

Nooooooooooooooo!

 

[Trini]

Creed III news; Tessa Thompson confirms Michael B. Jordan is directing: https://youtu.be/vmJYoYAHLic