S02.E07: Knowledge Of Causes, And Secret Motion Of Things

[possibilities]

I keep wondering what Angie will do fi she figures out what's happening. If the conspiracy is as powerful as Sarah suggested to cal this episode, DYAD would probably "neutralize" Angie before she could expose them. If Angie's goal is to arrest Sarah for impersonating Beth, and Allison for (whatever she thinks Allison did), I can't even really fault her for that impulse. But it's hard to believe the show would just calmly march a clone or two off to jail and be done with it. So Angie either falls victim to what fate befalls anyone who crosses paths with DYAD and/or Helena? or... what?

 

Also, Vic telling Angie that Allison claimed to watch Aynsley die, is not exactly hardcore evidence. Allison could deny ever saying such a thing, and who would be able to prove otherwise, let alone that she was actually telling the truth if she did say it?

[Ceeg]

Tatiana Maslany is the real Mystique, she can be anyone. 

This is perfect.

[ganesh]

*molested* by elves. Even better.

 

 

Re:  Cal, not sure why I have this impression but I thought we were led to believe that he is not completely a good guy or what he seems to be.

Why would he be? Sarah is a scam artist and a criminal. It's not like she's going to be hooking up with choir boys. Cal seems like some kind of hacker, like Anonymous.

[peachmangosteen]

I don't think the show's ever deliberately implied that Cal was shady, but a lot of people have inferred it, since he seems way too good to be true.  

That but also, as of now, Cal is a very boring, plot pointy character and I expect more from this show, so I've just been waiting for Cal to be more than he appears.

[Seelouis]

  I don't remember, does Vic know about the clones? Or does he think Sarah has a twin sister/double.

If I recall correctly, Alison did say "we're clones, Vic" in the episode last week, but he didn't believe her.  Ha!  Still thinking about the episode two days later.  This is TV at its best for sure. 

[Frisco]

great episode.  bye bye Dr. Leki.  missing Helena and the crazy cult.

Tatiana is such an amazing actress!

[Boundary]

Tatiana is such an amazing actress!

 

Can never be said often enough, as far as I'm concerned.

[Irishmaple]

One thing still kind of bugging me a bit is the Leekie/Paul/Mrs S connection with regard to Sarah and Ethan Duncan.  Siobhan seems to have won Paul as something of an ally (have I mentioned this woman is my goddess?) so he lied to Leekie about Sarah finding Ethan.  Paul said Sarah hadn't found anything.  Somehow Leekie inferred from Paul's poker face that Paul was lying.  When Mrs. S came to talk to Leekie, he told her to her face that he knew Ethan was alive.  How does Mrs. S think he learned that?  The obvious answer is Paul told him (which we knew didn't happen but Siobhan isn't watching along with us) but Mrs. S never said a word to Paul when he arrived at the house with Rachel.  How does she know he didn't betray her to Leekie?

[Ceeg]

I think Sarah must have told Mrs. S. that Leekie knows Ethan is alive.

[ottoDbusdriver]

I liked Felix's line when Donnie finds out about the clones: "No darling I think Sarah's right, this kind of cluelessness can't be faked."

[beedub]

Vic's face when Alison casually said "Then I killed her".

I know, I expected him to slowly start sliding his chair away from her! Then there was this (or words to the effect):

 

Alison: "I watched her choke to death."

 

Vic: "Like on some chicken?"

 

Alison: "No, not like on some chicken."

 

I think everything Alison has been doing, including blurting out her confession to Vic, is completely in character. Everything she's done (including drinking) has been impulse-driven.

[rozen]

One thing still kind of bugging me a bit is the Leekie/Paul/Mrs S connection with regard to Sarah and Ethan Duncan.  Siobhan seems to have won Paul as something of an ally (have I mentioned this woman is my goddess?) so he lied to Leekie about Sarah finding Ethan.  Paul said Sarah hadn't found anything.  Somehow Leekie inferred from Paul's poker face that Paul was lying.  When Mrs. S came to talk to Leekie, he told her to her face that he knew Ethan was alive.  How does Mrs. S think he learned that?  The obvious answer is Paul told him (which we knew didn't happen but Siobhan isn't watching along with us) but Mrs. S never said a word to Paul when he arrived at the house with Rachel.  How does she know he didn't betray her to Leekie?

 

I think Mrs. S fully expects Paul to play any information she provides against Leekie and Rachel. She gets one fewer person chasing Kira, and he gets one fewer boss, either way. Besides, with David dead, DYAD doesn't seem to have anyone that can keep up with her except Paul, and she's got his number with The Super Secret of Afghanistan. 

 

Vic just showed again and again why he was such an easy mark for Sarah, which makes me even more suspicious of Cal. I don't feel a bit sorry for him a) because he was so ready to sell Allison out and b) because he treats Sarah like an arcade game, where if he pulls off the right combo he'll get everything he wants. Vic needs to go to rehab for Sarah addiction. I feel like when we find out who Cal really is it's going to be a megaton bomb on the plot. This guy is too good, and too sneaky to swallow whatever Sarah says hook, line, and sinker. Vic asked more questions and did more snooping than Cal has, Vic.

 

I knew Donnie was dumb, but wow. I guess this is a time where Allison's paranoia will come in handy, there's no way that gun is registered. 

Edited June 2, 2014 by rozen

[Wilowy]

So Donnie was Alison's monitor her whole life and didn't know she was a clone. I buy that he didn't know about the 'probes' during the night, but HOW could he not have known she was a clone? We've seen him be pretty good at playing clueless, even under glue gun torture, and again in the graveyard. I'm just not convinced he didn't know about the clones. 

[Dagny]

I loved how Sarah was let in the back door to a TREATMENT FACILITY by Fe. Its not like drug addicts or alcoholics would need a fix during treatment.  You could even see the letters that it was an emergency exit door that would sound an alarm. I wouldn't put it past Felix to be able to disable it though.

[bluebonnet]

However, I did think the "you're a... Pisces" was a subtle exchange letting us know that Cal does suspect the truth, but was saving Sarah from having to talk about it. Why he's so nice to her, however, I'll never know.

 

On a different subject, I hate Allison so much at this point that it's starting to take me out of the show. I get that her scenes are supposed to be black comedy to lighten things up from Cosima/Helena/Sarah emotionally heavy scenes, but it just doesn't work for me. The way she complained about Aynsley seeming to think of herself as better than Allison and her chirpy "I do feel better" after admitting to letting Aynsley die while Aynsley clawed at the counter and begged for her life came across as sociopathic to me. I had thought the show was going for a storyline of Allison repressing her guilt that was eventually going to culminate in character growth, but now I'm just not sure.

 

At this point, I want all the bad things for Allison. She is a hideous, self-centered person, who does not deserve Donnie, custody of her kids, or support from Clone Club. I do still hope character growth actually happens, and she admits that she's caused almost all of her own problems by leaping to conclusions and making rash, life changing choices based on them. I also want her to admit that Aynsley was a good person and a good friend, whose only "crime" was daring to see that Allison was falling apart and trying to help as best she could. I want Allison to recognize that she's responsible for kids losing their mother and people losing a friend. I also want her to admit that she kept significant, important secrets from Donnie and that she is as, or more, responsible for the problems in her marriage. I need her to make some kind of sacrifice to atone for what she's done and the problems she's caused.

 

I agree that Cal's "you're a...pisces" was a pretty big hint that he had an idea about what was going on.  I think Cal was fishing (ha!) and hoping Sarah would take the bait and understand that he knew.  

 

On that other note, I think Allison has undergone some of the most character growth.  She was just a housewife protecting her kids and figuring out this clone business when it all started.  She's completely embraced the bad girl inside her, especially since the glue gun torture.  We've watched her become an addict, have sex with her friend's husband in a parking lot, watch her friend die, engage in shady drug/gun hook-ups with Ramon, talk about how she will cut people in prison, etc.  The Allison from this last episode isn't the same one we first met.  

[Captanne]

I agree that Cal's "you're a...pisces" was a pretty big hint that he had an idea about what was going on.  I think Cal was fishing (ha!) and hoping Sarah would take the bait and understand that he knew.  

 

 

I SO want this to have been intentional on the part of the writers -- "Pisces", fishing and taking the bait.  All of it.  

 

Speaking of how Allison has evolved -- are there certain characteristics that are common to all the clones?  Perhaps we should start a new thread?

Edited June 2, 2014 by Captanne

[CleoCaesar]

Probably my favorite episode this season so far. A huge, huge part of that was NO HELENA and NO PROLETHIANS. This episode made me realize just how much they both drag the show down for me. I'm sad about Leekie - he was a far more interesting enemy than Big Love Ranch guy.

 

The rehab farce was brilliant dark comedy and reminded so much of last season's suburban birthday party with Felix running interference, clones-being-other-clothes (badly), Vic being dumb, and all manner of hilariousness. Each episode reaffirms my suspicion that this is actually one of the funniest shows on TV right now.
 

I mistrusted Donnie till the very end. I thought he was just putting on a convincing act pretending he didn't know about the clones. His nefarious nighttime backseat meetups with Leekie just seemed way too suspicious. Fooled me!

 

Detective Angie looks a lot like the woman Leekie and Rachel seemed to report to. I assume it's just a facial recognition problem on my end, but someone tell me if it is actually the same actress or a lookalike, okay? And how can I so easily tell the different clones apart, when I have trouble telling apart characters who aren't even played by the same person?

 

I had the exact same reaction. Angie and NewBossLady look really, really similar to me.

[beedub]

are there certain characteristics that are common to all the clones?

Adorableness?

 

Poor choice of men? (Fully borne out by Delphine.)

Edited June 2, 2014 by beedub

[caracas1914]

Poor Donnie.

Maybe he and Allison are soul mates after all.

[LoneHaranguer]

 

Also, Vic telling Angie that Allison claimed to watch Aynsley die, is not exactly hardcore evidence.

Watching someone die is not a crime anyway, but the claim is sufficient cause to launch an investigation into whether Alison had more of a role in Aynsley's death than she said. The investigation will take a turn if they bump into evidence of what Donnie just did.

[possibilities]

I can buy that Donnie didn't know about the clones, because, really, it's not in the top 50 things you might suspect, even if you're looking for a cover story. DYAD could have told him quite a few other things that would be easier for him to accept, and they aren't exactly free with information they want quiet.

 

 

 

I had the exact same reaction. Angie and NewBossLady look really, really similar to me.

I've been toggling back and forth between the actresses' pages, trying to get clear which is which:

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0128297/?ref_=tt_cl_t9

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000405/?ref_=ttfc_fc_cl_t36

 

I don't really see how an investigation of Aynsley's death would lead to what Donnie did, but what I think is that Allison could claim Vic (that addict! He got high on Family Day!! Who the hell knows what lies he's told??) is lying, first of all. And then, she could reframe her tone of voice, a la: oh my god, i watched her die?!-- she got there too late or something, and then was so horrified she began drinking immediately, instead of reporting it like a sober person.... I just don't think Vic is credible enough a witness, or the story damning enough or hard enough to deflect. So Allison panicked-- again. But even if they hadn't stopped Vic's report, I think Angie comes off without much useful intel. We would have missed out on glitterface, head bonk on door frame, and Sarah as Allison as Donnie, though-- plus clones in the mirror shot. So I'm okay with it.

Edited June 2, 2014 by possibilities

[sjohnson]

Re Cal's niceness: Daniel's appearance was in my opinion an extraordinarily powerful justification for feeling a need to protect his daughter and her mother. 

 

Leekie ordering the fire makes a problem for the loss of the information (what Swan Man had in the box.) They would have gotten it first, then torched the place. That's why I had convinced myself that Maggie Chen did it (and Beth found out and that was why she killed Chen.)

 

Cosima is making an obvious mistake i think in not bringing in Scott. 

[Captanne]

I don't know if it will help at all but Michelle Forbes is iconic in her own right.  ("NewBossLady").  AFAIK, the first time she hit the US screens, she was Ensign Ro a Bajoran on Star Trek:  The Next Generation.  It was a small role but she really owned it -- and the character spawned an entire race on DS9 where the Bajorans were a huge part of the racial structure of the show.  She played an Admiral in Battlestar Gallactica opposite Edward James Olmos but by then I'd stopped watching that very good series (the character Starbuck had gotten away from them, I felt, and I got frustrated with the series.)  

 

During that time, I heard she moved to England and performed serious work there and the next time I saw her she had the lead role as the tortured mother in "The Killing" which was the American remake of "Forbrydelsen" -- a runaway television hit in Sweden.  She was also the wife in "In Treatment" opposite Gabriel Byrne.  That was an American remake of an israeli series.

 

I say these things -- which are easily found on the IMDb link -- because it helps to see the co-actors next to her over a long career.  

 

Michelle Forbes is a very talented actress who has been around a long time.  She's like Matt Frewer.  I would almost consider it "stunt casting".  (Like when Sir Derek Jacobi turned up in Doctor Who.)  She has no fear of franchise work but also has a lot of experience doing more "art" projects.

Edited June 2, 2014 by Captanne

[shapeshifter]

I knew Donnie was dumb, but wow. I guess this is a time where Allison's paranoia will come in handy, there's no way that gun is registered.

Oh! Right! Whew! How could I have forgotten about Ramon's Trunk of Illicit Desires?

Probably my favorite episode this season so far. A huge, huge part of that was NO HELENA and NO PROLETHIANS. This episode made me realize just how much they both drag the show down for me. I'm sad about Leekie - he was a far more interesting enemy than Big Love Ranch guy.

I love Helena scenes, but even I enjoyed the break from that particular brand of darkness. This show could go on for decades without getting old--with Tatiana and the writers inventing new and ever more interesting characters.

The problem with Leekie is that Frewer is just never going to seem evil to me. But I will miss him.

[Ceeg]

I don't know if it will help at all but Michelle Forbes is iconic in her own right.  ("NewBossLady").  AFAIK, the first time she hit the US screens, she was Ensign Ro a Bajoran on Star Trek:  The Next Generation.  

Actually, strangely enough, her first big role was on the Guiding Light, where she played twins. /former soap junkie

And she was excellent on The Killing. Probably the best part of it to be honest. I think the casting of her on OB was a real get, and I'm excited to see what she does on the show coming up.

[arcadia63]

I know Michelle Forbes from her role as the Maenad on season 2 of True Blood, she was scary in that as well.

[Sarah-phile]

I'm not sure if I quite buy the explanation about how DYAD got hold of Kira's tooth. If I'm not mistaken, at the time of Kira's hospitalization after the accident, Leekie and DYAD were still unaware of her existence, other than Delphine, who kept that information from him. Are we meant to think that Delphine somehow got into the hospital and snatched a tooth on Cosima's behalf? It does seem a bit convenient. Would Delphine even have had a clue at that point that Kira had the potential to provide material for a treatment? Anyone able to shed some light on this?

 

One thing still kind of bugging me a bit is the Leekie/Paul/Mrs S connection with regard to Sarah and Ethan Duncan.  Siobhan seems to have won Paul as something of an ally (have I mentioned this woman is my goddess?) so he lied to Leekie about Sarah finding Ethan.  Paul said Sarah hadn't found anything.  Somehow Leekie inferred from Paul's poker face that Paul was lying.  When Mrs. S came to talk to Leekie, he told her to her face that he knew Ethan was alive.  How does Mrs. S think he learned that?  The obvious answer is Paul told him (which we knew didn't happen but Siobhan isn't watching along with us) but Mrs. S never said a word to Paul when he arrived at the house with Rachel.  How does she know he didn't betray her to Leekie?

 

I think it's clear that Leekie did presume Paul was lying because his immediate reaction to talking to Paul was to set up an urgent appointment with Marion.  That plus the way he said that Paul should tell Rachel what he told Leekie -- the truth.

 

I'm wondering if Leekie wasn't in cahoots with the prolethians after all -- something that was hinted at by Ethan?  Mrs. S.?  Tomas (through Helena) knew about Kira's existence even before the accident and hospital stay, so he could have told Leekie.  Also, Mark may have known that Ethan was alive and that Sarah found him, and he also could have told Leekie.

 

I agree it cannot be said enough how fabulous Tatiana Maslany is.

Oh! Right! Whew! How could I have forgotten about Ramon's Trunk of Illicit Desires?

Bring back Ramon, please!

[Souris]

And Michelle Forbes!!  She is such an excellent actress ... I've been a fan since her Homicide days (yikes, I'm old), so I'm always excited when she shows up on one of my shows.  

 

I don't know if it will help at all but Michelle Forbes is iconic in her own right.  ("NewBossLady").  AFAIK, the first time she hit the US screens, she was Ensign Ro a Bajoran on Star Trek:  The Next Generation.  It was a small role but she really owned it -- and the character spawned an entire race on DS9 where the Bajorans were a huge part of the racial structure of the show. 

 

Oh, I've been a fan since her days of playing Sonni/Solita on "Guiding Light" back in the late '80s! So I'm reallllly old. Also, the Bajoran character on Deep Space Nine (Kira, ha!) was actually supposed to be Ensign Ro, but Michelle turned it down.

 

I knew it was Donnie following Leekie the second I saw the car. I'm sad to see the end of Leekie/Matt Frewer.

[ganesh]

Forbes also had a strong turn on Battlestar Galactica. Way way better than her role on True Blood. She's one of those actors you can cast in some pretty far out shit, like, a show about clones, for example, or killer robots from outer space, and she's going to ground the show in some sense of reality. I'd even say she's better at that than Frewer. 

[Wilson Cat]

When the new (to us) Boss Lady walked into the room in this ep I was like....WHO IS she?  I know her so well, and it took me awhile to remember that she was Mitch Larsen, the mother of the murdered high school girl, in S1 of The Killing.  She played a truly infuriating character, and did it wonderfully.  That show had some awesome acting.....Joel Kinnaman is beyond beyond he's so awesome.  So this is going to be fun, watching Michelle Forbes do her scary stuff from here on out.  I love this show so much, and have a new fave character every week.  This week was boys' week for me.  I thought Donnie, Vic, and Felix all rocked (you go Donnie!!) Someone else already pointed out an aspect of OB that I absolutely cherish.  And that is the total LACK of the 'fade to black' shit that most shows do in place of telling the viewers a damn thing, and this show tells us, and STILL leaves us hanging for the next episode.  Take a lesson show runners.  Crap, they are doing it on the local weather forecast now, it's all 'Well, it was 80 degrees today, but WHEN IS IT GOING TO.......(gasp) CHANGE'.  And I'm going like, it's the friggin' weather forecast you bozos.  It isn't Mystery Theatre.  So I particularly loved that they showed us the contents of that ratty old red box, and that we saw the demise of beloved Dr Leekie right in front of our eyes and not 10 minutes after he walked out of his sad little meeting with Rachel.  I did kind of miss Helena this week, but she's off to her 'babies' so there's that.  I hope that goes well........

Edited June 3, 2014 by Wilson Cat

[LoneHaranguer]

 

I don't really see how an investigation of Aynsley's death would lead to what Donnie did

Just being out at Alison's house means they could spot something (e.g. a leftover blood spot in the car).

[Loandbehold]

 

I can buy that Donnie didn't know about the clones, because, really, it's not in the top 50 things you might suspect, even if you're looking for a cover story. DYAD could have told him quite a few other things that would be easier for him to accept, and they aren't exactly free with information they want quiet.

I don't think it's unusual for the monitors to not know their subjects are clones. Paul didn't know the entire time he was with Beth. Now, the nightime invasive medical probing is a different question. I can't imagine not realizing that was going on if you live with a subject of the experiment.

 

I said it before, I've loved Michelle Forbes since she was Ro on ST:TNG. I remember her on Homicide (where they really didn't know what to do with the character), Admiral Cain on BSG, the victim's mother on The Killing. While Iididn't like the show, she was very good in a part that is so different from the strong women she often plays. I also saw her as the Maenad. I've also seen a few interviews with her, and she provides very thoughtful answers to the questions asked (even some of the more ridiculous ones). I'm excited to see where her character goes.

 

And, since it can never be said enough, TM is simply amazing.

[Ceeg]

Just being out at Alison's house means they could spot something (e.g. a leftover blood spot in the car).

I don't even know how they would have probable cause to search Alison's house. Aynsley choked to death in her own home via her own garbage disposal. I don't think there would be sufficient evidence to even get a search warrant all based on the word of a junkie criminal, who just relapsed in rehab (they don't know Felix drugged him).

[bluebonnet]

I'm not sure if I quite buy the explanation about how DYAD got hold of Kira's tooth. If I'm not mistaken, at the time of Kira's hospitalization after the accident, Leekie and DYAD were still unaware of her existence, other than Delphine, who kept that information from him. Are we meant to think that Delphine somehow got into the hospital and snatched a tooth on Cosima's behalf? It does seem a bit convenient. Would Delphine even have had a clue at that point that Kira had the potential to provide material for a treatment? Anyone able to shed some light on this?

It seems pretty reasonable that upon first hearing the clone's name, they would do at least a general search of Sarah Manning.  I always figured that Delphine was using the "I didn't tell them about Kira" as a tool to get closer to Cosima.  I mean, she had to have known that the DYAD would perform a search on Sarah and any sort of generic search would turn up a child.  It seemed clear the DYAD had immediately started to monitor Sarah, at least from afar, as they got their 'lawyers' into the police station pretty quickly after Sarah was arrested.  

 

So no big stretch for the Kira tooth plot.  They did exactly what I'd expect them to do.  They researched, they followed-up with that research, and they gathered organic material from a previously unknown clone's offspring.  

[LoneHaranguer]

 

I don't even know how they would have probable cause to search Alison's house.

They wouldn't have to be there to do a search. If they were just there to question or pick up Alison, anything accidentally left in plain sight would be fair game. BTW, the police can do a search without a warrant, but anything they find is inadmissible as evidence, so it's only something they'd want to do if they thought they could get independent evidence once they knew they were on the right track (and squeezing the suspect until they get a confession counts).

[Skeeter22]

Angie was ordered to drop the investigation, and Alison has a clean record and no obvious connection to any crime. I'm not sure Angie would get anywhere even with Vic's testimony. He's a criminal/drug addict who wants to get out of his own legal troubles. I doubt she has the authority to have Vic's charges dropped, and she's doing her investigation entirely on her own. She's putting herself in danger of being accused of harassment. How would she explain herself? I'm looking for dirt on an upstanding citizen because she looks a lot like Sarah/Beth?

[Zuleikha]

I'm trying to remember what exactly Angie and Art know. I think Angie may still think that Sarah pushed Beth into the train. They know that an unidentified woman whose fingerprints matched Sarah's was murdered... and do I remember right that they know the murderer's DNA is a match? I think Angie believes Beth was killed and thus also thinks Sarah may have killed both Beth and the unidentified woman. Or did they identify Katja? Either way, it's not surprising that she believes Allison is important since it strains belief that there are at least four lookalikes with no connection to each other.

 

This is all part of why I don't understand why Art doesn't just bring Angie in. She knows enough that she's obviously not going to drop the case given Beth's connection to it. She also knows enough of the weird parts that she's likely to come on board for the clone aspect. Two cop allies are more useful than one, and certainly more useful when the alternative is one cop ally and one cop antagonist. All of the complications with Vic would have been avoided (and while I know Vic is supposed to be an unsavory type who's done many bad things in the past, all I've seen on screen is Vic pine for Sarah and get beat-up, so I feel bad for him having Felix mess up his recovery just so Allison doesn't have to face consequences that I believe Allison deserves to face)

[Macbeth]

Nice shout out to "Pulp Fiction".  Well done show.

 

I got into this show because of the character of Allison, so I loved this episode.  I greatly appreciate black humor and Allison never ever fails.

[shapeshifter]

With Vic the Dick being so obsessed with Sarah, who he cannot have, and with Allison being on the outs with Donnie, well, I think y'all see where my mind is going with this. For that matter, maybe Vic and Ramon the Trunk Man know each other.

Or maybe when Allison finds out Donnie shot Leekie, he'll be her hero.

[Sarah-phile]

They wouldn't have to be there to do a search. If they were just there to question or pick up Alison, anything accidentally left in plain sight would be fair game. BTW, the police can do a search without a warrant, but anything they find is inadmissible as evidence, so it's only something they'd want to do if they thought they could get independent evidence once they knew they were on the right track (and squeezing the suspect until they get a confession counts).

I don't know the law in Canada, but this is not true in the US. Police cannot search someone's home without a warrant, unless some exception applies like exigent circumstances or consent. And if they do, they cannot use any evidence from a warrantless search to justify a search warrant later. Most people do allow the police to search their homes (at least to some degree) without a warrant though, so it's possible Donnie and/or Alison would allow that, although given Alison's response to Angie earlier that seems unlikely. If they did allow the police into their home, the plain view exception would apply, but it's pretty limited.

Angie was ordered to drop the investigation, and Alison has a clean record and no obvious connection to any crime. I'm not sure Angie would get anywhere even with Vic's testimony. He's a criminal/drug addict who wants to get out of his own legal troubles. I doubt she has the authority to have Vic's charges dropped, and she's doing her investigation entirely on her own. She's putting herself in danger of being accused of harassment. How would she explain herself? I'm looking for dirt on an upstanding citizen because she looks a lot like Sarah/Beth?

Agreed, although I think Vic's information about Aynsley's death would at least give new life to that investigation and cause embarrassment if not more for Alison.

I think Alison's fear of going to jail is rooted in her feelings of guilt over not helping Aynsley and not in any true criminal liability she has.

[LoneHaranguer]

 

I don't know the law in Canada, but this is not true in the US. Police cannot search someone's home without a warrant, unless some exception applies like exigent circumstances or consent.

The exclusionary rule was intended to get the police to do things right; the exceptions have almost completely trashed that rule as police are allowed to get away with more and more as "exigent circumstances". They certainly try. As you suggest, things could be different in Canada.

 

 

I think Angie may still think that Sarah pushed Beth into the train.

I'm fairly sure she was with Art when he played the security footage from the train station showing Beth jumping and Sarah running off with her stuff; it was when he made the dramatic announcement that they were looking for Sarah Manning rather than Beth.

[hardy har]

I'm fairly sure she was with Art when he played the security footage from the train station showing Beth jumping and Sarah running off with her stuff; it was when he made the dramatic announcement that they were looking for Sarah Manning rather than Beth.

Damn I don't remember Art showing the footage to anyone?! All I remember was the scene where he goes to the station and watches the footage with the security guys.

 

I still maintain that there isn't anything wrong with what Angie is doing. The only thing I find a little strange is why she's fixated on Alison because you'd think Angie would be trying to find Sarah considering she was all about arresting her at the end of S1 and beginning of S2. I mean, I guess Alison is technically the easiest to find at the moment, so perhaps Angie thinks Alison could lead her to Sarah, but I just find it a little odd that Angie's hasn't even uttered Sarah's name during the last several episodes.  

[DioxinBlues]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure Angie views Alison as her way "in" to the greater mystery of the now 4 - as far as she knows - women who look identical and what this has to do with her former co-worker. While I'm far, far from being an Angie fan, I don't think there's anything wrong with what she's doing and, indeed, if she was the star of her own movie we'd be rooting for her to figure out what the hell is going on. But, in the context of OB, she's merely being used as an obstacle, which is fine by me. There's more than enough going on as is, to the point they can't keep every clone's story in an episode, hence the absence of Helena in this one, Alison in the last one, and Rachel in at least two. That's also why I hope they don't intro* an new clone anytime soon, the plate is full!

 

 

*or remove by death!

[kat165]

As to why Art doesn't bring Angie in, I don't think he trusts her enough. Beth & Art covered each other's butts on that Maggie Chen shooting & I don't think Art is about to trust Angie with that info. Since then Art has gotten way more involved than he probably wants a co-worker to know about.

Edited June 4, 2014 by kat165

[bluebonnet]

As to why Art doesn't bring Angie in, I don't think he trusts her enough. Beth & Art covered each other's butts on that Maggie Chen shooting & I don't think Art is about to trust Angie with that info. Since then Art has gotten way more involved than he probably wants a co-worker to know about.

I agree.  She's been shown to be a very untrustworthy partner.  She's rarely backed him up or honored his requests and she lies to him.  He made a simple request that she hold off talking to the department head with what they found until later and while she waited, she didn't offer him the full chance to figure things out or even give him the heads up that she was going ahead and spilling the beans.  If I were Art, I wouldn't want to be anywhere near her.  

[kat165]

Thanks, System. I'd forgotten all about that. Who knows what Angie would do with any info she acquired. Art could find himself out of a job and under investigation.

[Zuleikha]

She's been shown to be a very untrustworthy partner.  She's rarely backed him up or honored his requests and she lies to him.

 

Art hasn't exactly been a trustworthy partner to her either, though, and that's in part because he's been covering up the fact that both he and Beth did something wrong in the Maggie Chen shooting. Art also orders Angie to do and not do things even though he's not her superior, so of course there's no reason for her to listen to him. Maybe if he actually requested favors politely, she might listen. Or maybe not.

 

Art seems to be a popular character, but he's a dirty cop. It's implied that he was covering for Beth while she was unfit for duty due to her drug problem, and we know that he helped her cover up that she shot Maggie Chen completely unprovoked (although he doesn't seem to know that she shot Maggie Chen intentionally). He actively coaches her to lie during her testimony. Angie's a much better cop, so if he doesn't trust her, it seems more that it's because he doesn't trust Angie to get dirty. That's not a bad thing in terms of Angie. At least based on what we know of her so far, Angie's probably the most morally clean character on the show right now (not counting Kira).

 

[kat165]

That's a very good point, Zuleikha. I hadn't considered that. I guess probably because I like Art a hell of a lot more than Angie. He could be considered a dirty cop although I've never looked at him as such.

Edited June 5, 2014 by kat165

[Riful]

Whew. Finally got to see the episode and oh my. While there was some stuff I liked in this episode, I found some of the directing pretty weird at times, to the extent it took me out of scenes. Also several points of plot contrivance that I found hard to over look (I think someone else might have pointed these out)

 

Like Alison just happens to give Vic gloves that he forgets so Alison overhears the phone call. He even had the door open, until she heard enough to know Vic was planning to snitch. Also Cosima just happened to be in the hall way when of course Scott decided talk to Delphine about the matter she told him to keep secret from Cosima. I kinda expect more of Orphan Black because the show tends to move its various plots forward rather organically (there have been other hiccups but two in same episode and similar nature was just a bit too much for me)

 

Now the direction. Ohhhh boy. What was with all the God damn shots through glas of some sort? Even dialogue happened at times while the camera was on the other side of whatever window the director fancied, which just creates a disconnect. This was probably my biggest issue, it occured like 7-8 times. Then there was such an excessive use of wideshots, which are primarily used to establish the settings and then you focus in so it becomes easier for the viewer to be 'carried' away with the scene(s). But here a lot of scenes just had full on wide shots showing the characters from top to toe at random times, making their facials expressions hard to make out mid conversation. Which brings me to other weird shots. The straight on side profile ones e.g. Delphine when fighting with Cosima. They make it hard again to disconcern any facial impression. It is standard to have any side shot turned a bit so it's not a straight on side profile shot and therefore we are able to see the actor act. I found the voice/tone/inflection of TM and EB gave ten times more a better sense of the fight, than the actual directing.

 

A lot of interesting things happened though. Mrs. S continues to just be awesome and it is facinating to see her make her moves. I like that Sarah is still not trusting Mrs. S and Mrs. S. is still focusing on Kira because she knows Sarah is unreliable and impulsive.

 

Cosima's story line might finally be getting some more traction. The medical scene managed to have some sweetness (the wiping away of the tear) but also strong edge of invasiveness with the medical equipment etc. The following fight does bring up a pretty grey dillema. If someone you love is sick, how far do you go to ensure they become well? Is it ever ok to overrule them if they refuse the working treatment? Or should you respect their agency and potentially sit back while they die? Like at what point, if any, is it alright to ignore someone wishes if it will save their life? Or withhold information because you think it will make them not under go treatment?

 

 

I love the show for bringing in so many interesting ethical dilemmas, and never having them explicitly spelled out by the characters. Instead they just live those situations and deal with them, and a myriad of different perspectives are brought in by the various characters and fractions.

 

Is it weird that I need Cal to have done something bad? He is just right now too much of a good guy for me to actually really get a feel for him and find him interesting in on this show. Pretty much all the other players operate in the grey zone, and at times do questionable things, so he just seems boring in comparison. The actor does a fine job, but it seems like he was just introduced so Sarah would have a babysitter for some episodes.

 

Some development on the Rachel front, but I just can't feel any sympathy with someone who sexually assaulted another person. I get that she is messed up from being raised as an experiment and it can create some serious control issues, but nothing ever excuses rape to me. It will however be interesting to see how Rachel acts now, especially with the introduction of the stunning Michelle Forbes (I may have let out a little squee and clutched my girlfriend's arm when she came on screen).

 

With Michelle Forbes character, I wonder where she falls on the DYAD/Neolution specturm. Is she another believer like Leekie or is she more corporate? Does this also mean we will see DYAD take a somehow different direction with the clones? Like a less scientific one where they maybe stop with the survillance and instead try to make them marketable somehow or what? I really want to know what exactly DYAD's goals are. The whole ominous multi international company boogeyman isn't working so much for me anymore. I need to see it more defined in order to ground these characters operating within DYAD's spectrum.

Edited June 5, 2014 by Riful

[DioxinBlues]

Now the direction. Ohhhh boy. What was with all the God damn shots through glas of some sort? Even dialogue happened at times while the camera was on the other side of whatever window the director fancied, which just creates a disconnect. This was probably my biggest issue, it occured like 7-8 times. Then there was such an excessive use of wideshots, which are primarily used to establish the settings and then you focus in so it becomes easier for the viewer to be 'carried' away with the scene(s). But here a lot of scenes just had full on wide shots showing the characters from top to toe at random times, making their facials expressions hard to make out mid conversation. Which brings me to other weird shots. The straight on side profile ones e.g. Delphine when fighting with Cosima. They make it hard again to disconcern any facial impression. It is standard to have any side shot turned a bit so it's not a straight on side profile shot and therefore we are able to see the actor act. I found the voice/tone/inflection of TM and EB gave ten times more a better sense of the fight, than the actual directing.

 

 

I agree. This is the first episode where I had the directing pull me OUT of scenes, exactly the ones you mentioned. The 3 overheard conversations (I'm counting Kira at the end) is just lazy writing as well, which I don't expect from this show. There has to have been a better way for Cosima to find out about Delphine, like Scott flat out telling her in defiance of his directive. That would give him more definition and, frankly, make sense as well. And, more important, it would've helped remove the overabundance of characters lurking ala soap opera coincidences, which is irksome. And, as you pointed out, the profile shot of Delphine in the argument was lame. If Maslany and, in particular during that scene, Brochu, hadn't been spot-on with their emotional acting the whole thing would've fallen completely flat. Thankfully they're both really good. I will give it to the director for the final scene with Donnie and Leekie - it was excellent and one that won't be forgotten anytime soon. 

 

For the most part I enjoyed this episode, as I do all of the one thus far, especially the ending and the clone-on-clone shenanigans, the Vic stuff, too. But I really hope they don't bring back this director because his style was veddy distracting. More Helen Shaver, though!