Special: The Jehovah's Witnesses

[FormerMod-a1]

Quote

For the very first time, Leah and Mike meet with former members of a different organization - the Jehovah's Witnesses. In this special 2-hour episode, a panel of contributors open up and share their personal stories of growing up in this secretive organization.

Air date: November 13, 2018

[LGraves65]

That was so good -- and so eye-opening! I would have like to have heard more from the lady in blue dress, I googled her, and she's big into women-as-ministers. I think if  they had gone deeper into the patriarchal aspect, she would have been more vocal.

Jerry Minor! He used to be on SNL, so he was their celebrity JW, I guess.  I am very curious as to the JW stance on the Jacksons, as it isn't a secret that Mrs. Jackson is a devout JW, and the kids were raised in that church. Have they all been disfellowshipped?

Edited November 14, 2018 by LGraves65

[AZChristian]

I have a couple of family members who are JWs.  Nothing I see in their behavior makes me want to join up.  The nicest JWs I've ever seen are the two ladies who sit next to their "Watchtower" rack at the local library.  They're not allowed to actively approach people about their "religion," but they always smile and say hello.  That's all I need from JWs.

[veronicamers]

31 minutes ago, LGraves65 said:

That was so good -- and so eye-opening! I would have like to have heard more from the lady in blue dress, I googled her, and she's big into women-as-ministers. I think if  they had gone deeper into the patriarchal aspect, she would have been more vocal.

Jerry Minor! He used to be on SNL, so he was their celebrity JW, I guess.  I am very curious as to the JW stance on the Jacksons, as it isn't a secret that Mrs. Jackson is a devout JW, and the kids were raised in that church. Have they all been disfellowshipped?

My husband recognized Jerry Minor from Mr. Show!

I really enjoyed the special. The stories of suicide and family isolation were heartbreaking.

I feel like the JWs are so...under the radar? I don't know. I grew up down the street from a Kingdom Hall but I never saw anyone going in or out. I've only known one JW in my life. It was at my first job out of college and I just remember being so curious about the fact that she didn't celebrate any holidays or her birthday.

[libgirl2]

The show was quite good. I knew a lot of the dirty stuff that goes on with them. I remember years ago when I was like 13 getting a hold of a Watchtower tract.... I had never heard of the JW before. The tract was disturbing. I can't imagine letting children read this stuff. I also have worked with JW in the past. One woman was probably the most miserable woman I had ever known. A co-worker went to her wedding and said it was a real somber and weird affair. Nothing really to celebrate..... they had a ceremony and than had cold cuts and just stood around. The other recently that I worked with was a very pleasant and funny person, however we had to curtail out Christmas/winter holiday party. Gee, force your faith on me! 

And they did talk about how when they were kids being excluded from so many different things. I can't imagine how miserable it has to be to never celebrate anything. And the two witness rule is just God awful! 

[gesundheit]

Was this just a one-timer or are they going further into JW? (I'm only about halfway through the episode and am going to finish it up tomorrow, I'm sure it'll be clearer then.) I'm just really interested in the deep dive into other "religions" besides Scientology.

[libgirl2]

42 minutes ago, LGraves65 said:

Jerry Minor! He used to be on SNL, so he was their celebrity JW, I guess.  I am very curious as to the JW stance on the Jacksons, as it isn't a secret that Mrs. Jackson is a devout JW, and the kids were raised in that church. Have they all been disfellowshipped?

 

I know she is a devout JW, but I really wonder about the kids...... God knows MJ celebrated his birthday and everything else. I wonder if they pick and choose. 

I once read a book about a JW girl in WWII Germany (many JW were sent to the death camps and gas chambers). Her explanation for not celebrating anything is something like, how can you celebrate when Christ suffered. Its weird. 

5 minutes ago, gesundheit said:

Was this just a one-timer or are they going further into JW? (I'm only about halfway through the episode and am going to finish it up tomorrow, I'm sure it'll be clearer then.) I'm just really interested in the deep dive into other "religions" besides Scientology.

I think its a one time, though I would like to see more and other religions as well. 

Oh and I do remember, they don't read the Bible, they read Watchtower that gives them "pieces" or "meals" of quotes and an explanation. They also don't believe in that God, the Father, Jesus and the Holy Spirit are the same. They are three separate entities. If I am wrong, I did read this in several books when I was exploring religions and cults. 

Edited November 14, 2018 by libgirl2

[veronicamers]

3 hours ago, libgirl2 said:

 I remember years ago when I was like 13 getting a hold of a Watchtower tract.... I had never heard of the JW before. The tract was disturbing. I can't imagine letting children read this stuff.

That reminds me of a story about my kid and JWs. There is a group of them that stand right by my office with literature. One day my son (he was probably 7 at the time) was at work with me. We were walking to get lunch and passed by their display. The cover of the Watchtower was about disciplining children and it had a photo of a kid on it. So my kid saw it and was all "What's that?" The JW started chatting with him, encouraging him to take a copy so he could "learn how to be mindful of your mom and dad." I was like NOPE, gotta go, Happy Meal is calling!

Edited November 14, 2018 by veronicamers

[DrSparkles]

I only saw the first 15 minutes or so & had to go to bed :(  I can not WAIT to get home & watch this!!!!!

[libgirl2]

1 minute ago, DrSparkles said:

I only saw the first 15 minutes or so & had to go to bed :(  I can not WAIT to get home & watch this!!!!!

It seems like being a JW is such a joyless life. 

[andromeda331]

36 minutes ago, libgirl2 said:

The show was quite good. I knew a lot of the dirty stuff that goes on with them. I remember years ago when I was like 13 getting a hold of a Watchtower tract.... I had never heard of the JW before. The tract was disturbing. I can't imagine letting children read this stuff. I also have worked with JW in the past. One woman was probably the most miserable woman I had ever known. A co-worker went to her wedding and said it was a real somber and weird affair. Nothing really to celebrate..... they had a ceremony and than had cold cuts and just stood around. The other recently that I worked with was a very pleasant and funny person, however we had to curtail out Christmas/winter holiday party. Gee, force your faith on me! 

And they did talk about how when they were kids being excluded from so many different things. I can't imagine how miserable it has to be to never celebrate anything. And the two witness rule is just God awful! 

 

34 minutes ago, libgirl2 said:

I know she is a devout JW, but I really wonder about the kids...... God knows MJ celebrated his birthday and everything else. I wonder if they pick and choose. 

I once read a book about a JW girl in WWII Germany (many JW were sent to the death camps and gas chambers). Her explanation for not celebrating anything is something like, how can you celebrate when Christ suffered. Its weird. 

I think its a one time, though I would like to see more and other religions as well. 

Oh and I do remember, they don't read the Bible, they read Watchtower that gives them "pieces" or "meals" of quotes and an explanation. They also don't believe in that God, the Father, Jesus and the Holy Spirit are the same. They are three separate entities. If I am wrong, I did read this in several books when I was exploring religions and cults. 

 

30 minutes ago, veronicamers said:

That reminds me of a story about my kid and JWs. There is a group of them that stand right by my office with literature. One day my son (he was probably 7 at the time) was at work with me. We were walking to get lunch and passed by their display. The cover of the Watchtower was about disciplining children and it had a phot of a kid on it. So my kid saw it and was all "What's that?" The JW started chatting with him, encouraging him to take a copy so he could "learn how to be mindful of your mom and dad." I was like NOPE, gotta go, Happy Meal is calling!

 

8 minutes ago, libgirl2 said:

It seems like being a JW is such a joyless life. 

That's always been my question regard their attempts to preach to people so your telling me to give up birthdays, holidays, fun, and a whole bunch of stuff that the Jesus I was raised with is totally cool with. Why would I (or anyone) want to switch? For a joyless and depressing life? I can't imagine being a kid or raising a kid not allowed to experience any of the fun and joy of life. No fun, no parties, no dress up. My mom was always quick to toss out their tract that was left in our doors or they'd give out at schools (to be fair they weren't the only Christian group passing out tracts at the schools).  My great-grandfather's got the group to avoid him by inviting them in to talk happy to talk about their faith which they were happy to do until they realized he knew the Bible. He could counter all their arguments with different passages and explaining one's they parroted as having a different meaning or knowing that the entire passage it was taking from which they had taken out of context. He was always very polite about it. He loved a good religious debate. They soon got really quiet and made up an excuse to leave and avoided his house when they would come back through the neighborhood.    

I thought that I wouldn't be surprised by listening to each one talk.  They didn't really say anything different from other cults. So much was so much the same. But no it was still painful to hear. Rick and his poor sister and their brothers. One stayed behind and one left and they both committed suicide. The one trying hard speak to his parents even going to his brother's wedding. And of course the abuse. 

Can I just say how much I love Australia? They managed to force Scientology to open their books there and went after JW for abuse. I loved listening to the Elders being question I could have watched the whole thing. That's what needs to be done. They need to be held accountable especially for abuse and protecting the abusers.   

[libgirl2]

7 minutes ago, andromeda331 said:

 

 

 

That's always been my question regard their attempts to preach to people so your telling me to give up birthdays, holidays, fun, and a whole bunch of stuff that the Jesus I was raised with is totally cool with. Why would I (or anyone) want to switch? For a joyless and depressing life? I can't imagine being a kid or raising a kid not allowed to experience any of the fun and joy of life. No fun, no parties, no dress up. My mom was always quick to toss out their tract that was left in our doors or they'd give out at schools (to be fair they weren't the only Christian group passing out tracts at the schools).  My great-grandfather's got the group to avoid him by inviting them in to talk happy to talk about their faith which they were happy to do until they realized he knew the Bible. He could counter all their arguments with different passages and explaining one's they parroted as having a different meaning or knowing that the entire passage it was taking from which they had taken out of context. He was always very polite about it. He loved a good religious debate. They soon got really quiet and made up an excuse to leave and avoided his house when they would come back through the neighborhood.    

I thought that I wouldn't be surprised by listening to each one talk.  They didn't really say anything different from other cults. So much was so much the same. But no it was still painful to hear. Rick and his poor sister and their brothers. One stayed behind and one left and they both committed suicide. The one trying hard speak to his parents even going to his brother's wedding. And of course the abuse. 

Can I just say how much I love Australia? They managed to force Scientology to open their books there and went after JW for abuse. I loved listening to the Elders being question I could have watched the whole thing. That's what needs to be done. They need to be held accountable especially for abuse and protecting the abusers.   

Jesus went to a wedding in Cana, celebrated and drank wine! 

That was so sad. It was a case of damned if you do, damned if you don't. 

Edited November 14, 2018 by libgirl2

[andromeda331]

1 minute ago, libgirl2 said:

Jesus went to a wedding in Cana, celebrated and drank wine! 

He also brought the wine! I bet Jesus danced too and had a lot of fun.

[libgirl2]

2 minutes ago, andromeda331 said:

He also brought the wine! I bet Jesus danced too and had a lot of fun.

I don't think they all stood around glum... when life is tough a happy occasion is reason to have fun and celebrate. 

[Mom2twoNonna2-3]

My husband has worked for and with JW's. They told him they don't celebrate your birthday because it focuses on you and you are not important. But, they'll celebrate their wedding anniversary. Here's the thing about the ones we know, they have all been divorced and remarried! My response was "your birthday is always yours, but, your marriage is not sacred enough to hold onto, but, you can celebrate that?"  They have all been super nice people. He worked directly for one for about 8 years and he was very kind, lent us the work van on multiple occasions, to even travel different states, rented us his house cheap, etc., but would try to proselytize to my husband when they worked and he was stuck in the work van with him. His friend who he helped on a few jobs as they (hubby and him) owned their own separate companies in the same field of work paid my husband and paid for 2 weeks in a hotel in SW Florida for our family when hubby went down to help him. We basically got a free 2 week vacation to see family and friends. I'm grateful as it's the last time I saw my mother before she died the following February. We took her with us so she could see her dad and sisters. Worse part of that vacation was hubby and I didn't use sunscreen and had 3rd degree burns. Try driving from SW Florida to Pgh like that!!!

 

Hubby was extremely interested in this episode, it's the first he's really watched of the Leah Remini series and we were both agog at the abuses inside of the church. Here's a good rule of thumb, if you can't leave a church and keep your family, it's a cult. JW is a cult.

[libgirl2]

5 minutes ago, Mom2twoNonna2one said:

My husband has worked for and with JW's. They told him they don't celebrate your birthday because it focuses on you and you are not important. But, they'll celebrate their wedding anniversary. Here's the thing about the ones we know, they have all been divorced and remarried! My response was "your birthday is always yours, but, your marriage is not sacred enough to hold onto, but, you can celebrate that?"  They have all been super nice people. He worked directly for one for about 8 years and he was very kind, lent us the work van on multiple occasions, to even travel different states, rented us his house cheap, etc., but would try to proselytize to my husband when they worked and he was stuck in the work van with him. His friend who he helped on a few jobs as they (hubby and him) owned their own separate companies in the same field of work paid my husband and paid for 2 weeks in a hotel in SW Florida for our family when hubby went down to help him. We basically got a free 2 week vacation to see family and friends. I'm grateful as it's the last time I saw my mother before she died the following February. We took her with us so she could see her dad and sisters. Worse part of that vacation was hubby and I didn't use sunscreen and had 3rd degree burns. Try driving from SW Florida to Pgh like that!!!

 

Hubby was extremely interested in this episode, it's the first he's really watched of the Leah Remini series and we were both agog at the abuses inside of the church. Here's a good rule of thumb, if you can't leave a church and keep your family, it's a cult. JW is a cult.

I thought they couldn't celebrate wedding anniversaries but looking it up its not considered a pagan holiday like Christmas... they do memorialize Christ's death near Easter and Passover. 

Can you imagine growing up being told you are not important? Wow. 

I don't think all JW are awful people, but it is a cult, and even if you think they are being your friend, I don't trust them. They want you to convert. 

Quick google search:

They do not celebrate religious holidays such as Christmas and Easter, nor do they observe birthdays, national holidays, or other celebrations they consider to honor people other than Jesus. They feel that these and many other customs have pagan origins or reflect a nationalistic or political spirit.

[libgirl2]

I just remembered when I first moved to the area I live in now, two elderly women came to my door. They were sweet and asked me if I had heard of the Four Horseman of the Apocalypse. Stupid me, not knowing who they were, said of course! They talked a bit and asked if they could come back.... I started to feel weird about it all and just said maybe. They came back a time later and I didn't answer the door... Maybe that's why I would just rather not talk to them. I get to easily into the conversation because I feel bad. 

[Mom2twoNonna2-3]

Not sure if it's allowed, but, I do know that they take a trip every year to "celebrate" their anniversary. The one in Florida takes his wife out to dinner or on a trip if she can get off work. They are all incredibly kind people. The wife of the Florida one works in a medical office, the wife of the PA one does not work and doesn't speak English. He learned Spanish to communicate and translates for us. She's from Peru. They are both window tinters and business owners, no formal degree. But, I believe the one in Florida allowed his son to go to college, IIRC, even though it's technically not allowed. I moved away 11 years ago so their lifestyle specifics are fading. I know that he wasn't a big evangelizer, but, the PA one is huge. He went to Canada to get hernia surgery because he feared getting blood here in the US. It's funny what they said about drugs. The office manager of the PA JW, is also a JW. He used to run drugs from Mexico to California decades ago. That's the story he told my husband. Not sure if actually partook though.

[libgirl2]

1 minute ago, Mom2twoNonna2one said:

Not sure if it's allowed, but, I do know that they take a trip every year to "celebrate" their anniversary. The one in Florida takes his wife out to dinner or on a trip if she can get off work. They are all incredibly kind people. The wife of the Florida one works in a medical office, the wife of the PA one does not work and doesn't speak English. He learned Spanish to communicate and translates for us. She's from Peru. They are both window tinters and business owners, no formal degree. But, I believe the one in Florida allowed his son to go to college, IIRC, even though it's technically not allowed. I moved away 11 years ago so their lifestyle specifics are fading. I know that he wasn't a big evangelizer, but, the PA one is huge. He went to Canada to get hernia surgery because he feared getting blood here in the US. It's funny what they said about drugs. The office manager of the PA JW, is also a JW. He used to run drugs from Mexico to California decades ago. That's the story he told my husband. Not sure if actually partook though.

Its probably like with every religion, some toe the line more than others. Some follow a religion in name only or for certain aspects.  

[Maelstrom]

Wow, this was brutal. When this special was first announced I wasn't sure how interesting it would be, but I'm so grateful that Leah and co. have brought attention to the JW. The more awareness brought to any and all damaging cults, the better. I mean, I wonder how many JW clued in and found the strength to leave because of Leah's work on Scientology, and I wonder how many more people will wake up and break free from other cults because of this special? It would be cool if down the line they can do a follow-up episode to this special.

As a kid I had a friend who was a Jehovah's Witness. I seem to recall there were some things I found odd about her family, but none of it made enough of an impression to stick with me - probably because I wasn't raised religious, in a heavily Christian area, and I found lots of things odd about all the Christians around me so I guess my kid self figured there wasn't much difference between them all? Anyway, I had no idea the depths of the mental, emotional, and physical abuse that JW suffer. And though I lost touch with her many years ago, this makes me think about what my friend might have gone through, and what ever happened to her.

I liked that they covered such range of topics, though I wish they could've spent a bit more time exploring the patriarchal and misogynistic mindset. They covered a lot of ground though - I really had no idea so many awful things went on and were allowed to go on in the JW. The guests were all insightful and well-spoken people, and I'm grateful that they came forward to share their stories, as painful as they were. Apparently Lloyd Evans has a Youtube channel under the name John Cedars, where he talks about the JW and cults. Also, my heart especially broke for  the young woman who was molested by her adoptive father - it seemed like every time the camera cut to her she looked so haunted, ready to burst into tears or fall to pieces. No one should have to suffer like that. And if Leah's tv show can help bring suffering like this to an end, then all the power in the world to her.

And as a reminder, there's another special set to air this Sunday, November 18! I believe it's called the Emotional Aftermath. Set your DVRs, everyone!

[Lugal]

It's funny, I also had JW friend when I was a kid, and there were a few things that struck me odd how he would leave before the class Halloween and Christmas parties started and would never celebrate his birthday.  I didn't actually know when it was for years.  His mother married into the JW (small town where everyone had some degrees of kinship and I knew some of the other relatives who were not JW) and was always really nice and would even come into the school to help out the teacher from time to time so I wonder how devout a JW he was.   Once a few of us asked him why he didn't celebrate Christmas and he said it was because there was no proof that Jesus's birth was on December 25th (which is true)

My JW friend, myself and another friend were all into Science Fiction, but when whenever the topic came up of when we will have spaceships like that in the future, he was always sure it would not happen.    After hearing what they were taught about how us non-JW will perish in Armageddon, I wonder if this is what he was taught about me.

Although it was funny on the show that for a supposedly Christian cult the name Jesus wasn't mentioned once.  Leah did a great job, and I really liked how her and Mike just listened, with Leah only breaking in to clarify things.  Although it was interesting not to see all the legal warnings since the JW don't seem to be as litigious as the Scientologists.

Edited November 19, 2018 by Lugal

[Enigma X]

One of my sisters became a JW when her two daughters were young. She married a much older man who was a JW and had another daughter with him. She then divorced him but stayed a JW and remarried and had two more kids. Not sure if she still considers herself JW these days, but she has started smoking and drinking again. Eh...bad habits maybe (not to me if done in moderation) but would rather have her out of the cult a little tipsy than in completely dry. (I sort of kid but she is not a drunk.)

One thing my nieces did that was very hypocritical. They would not buy or give each other birthday or Christmas presents but would wait a few days after to do it.

[juliet73]

I forgot to record it yesterday, but it's airing again on Sunday and I'm ready.

I don't know if celebrity JWs were mentioned in the show, but I surprised to learn that Venus and Serena Williams were JWs. I believe Serena is also raising her daughter as one. 

[iMonrey]

I found this horribly depressing and had to shut it off after an hour or so. A lot of stories about people committing suicide and all these people sitting around crying while listening to them. Not fun.

I did find it interesting to learn more about what they believe in, though - I just couldn't take the relentless tragedies.

Quote

They do not celebrate religious holidays such as Christmas and Easter, nor do they observe birthdays, national holidays, or other celebrations they consider to honor people other than Jesus. They feel that these and many other customs have pagan origins or reflect a nationalistic or political spirit.

That . . . actually makes sense, from a purely religious standpoint. Because a lot of Christian holidays are, in fact, Pagan in origin. Christmas certainly is. And a lot of Christians do conflate their religion with nationalism. In that way I must admit they are less hypocritical than a lot of mainstream Christians.

[libgirl2]

9 minutes ago, juliet73 said:

I forgot to record it yesterday, but it's airing again on Sunday and I'm ready.

I don't know if celebrity JWs were mentioned in the show, but I surprised to learn that Venus and Serena Williams were JWs. I believe Serena is also raising her daughter as one. 

There was an article a little while back mentioning how they won't be celebrating her birthday. 

[Enigma X]

1 minute ago, libgirl2 said:

There was an article a little while back mentioning how they won't be celebrating her birthday. 

To each their own, but I have always said of all the "special" days, it will be my kids' birthday that will be celebrated most. I know some may say I am going in the total opposite direction with indulgence. (shrugs)

 

In any case, I have 11 siblings on my mom's side, and my nieces and nephews who were JWs always seemed sad when their cousins mentioned the stuff they got for Christmas or a birthday. 

[libgirl2]

17 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

I found this horribly depressing and had to shut it off after an hour or so. A lot of stories about people committing suicide and all these people sitting around crying while listening to them. Not fun.

I did find it interesting to learn more about what they believe in, though - I just couldn't take the relentless tragedies.

That . . . actually makes sense, from a purely religious standpoint. Because a lot of Christian holidays are, in fact, Pagan in origin. Christmas certainly is. And a lot of Christians do conflate their religion with nationalism. In that way I must admit they are less hypocritical than a lot of mainstream Christians.

I don't find it much different than any religion celebrating a holiday. Some of the pagan ceremonies and holidays were brought in  by converts who joined the early Christian church and adapted to the new church. 

Edited November 14, 2018 by libgirl2

[iMonrey]

Quote

Some of the pagan ceremonies and holidays were brought in  by converts who joined the early Christian church and adapted to the new church. 

Well, exactly - they aren't celebrations of or deference to Jesus, they are Pagan traditions "adopted" by Christianity in order to convert Pagans. There is nothing inherently Christian about these holidays. Historically Christianity had to compete with other religions for dominance and it became necessary to appropriate a lot of non-Christian traditions and celebrations. I see the "logic," as it were, in shunning celebrations that are of Pagan origin.

This, of course, would be the thing I find the least objectionable about the Jehovah's Witnesses. 

[libgirl2]

24 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

Well, exactly - they aren't celebrations of or deference to Jesus, they are Pagan traditions "adopted" by Christianity in order to convert Pagans. There is nothing inherently Christian about these holidays. Historically Christianity had to compete with other religions for dominance and it became necessary to appropriate a lot of non-Christian traditions and celebrations. I see the "logic," as it were, in shunning celebrations that are of Pagan origin.

This, of course, would be the thing I find the least objectionable about the Jehovah's Witnesses. 

I could give them a pass on Christmas and Easter (though they do a Lord's evening meal around Passover) , but birthdays and Thanksgiving etc are not pagan.... I just find it depressingly sad. 

[estellasmum]

I knew Mike and Leah would do right by us. I am so glad they chose to do a special on Jehovah's Witnesses. Nothing they said on there wasn't true. I was in tears last night the whole time, because it brought back so many memories, and I have been out of the cult for so long. I have been married to my husband for 20+ years, and I think last night was the most he's ever understood of my life before I left, because I don't want to tell the stories of what happened to me back then. I am hoping beyond hope that this does to the JWs what it has done to Scientology. Suicide, hidden molestation, and ripping apart families happens over and over and over, and it is so frustrating that people don't see and think that JWs are only those kooky, nice people that come to your door. They did a great job showing how joyless life is in the cult, and how you spend your whole life doing things for the organization as busy work to keep you occupied and brainwashed. Your life is nothing but joyless and being afraid. Thank you so much for this.

[2727]

At least Scientology lies to people to lure people into their bullshit. JW up front proselytizes through fear and doomsday threats. It seems very weird to me that some people respond to that. Or even answer their doors, to be honest.

Eight million is a lot.

[italianguy626]

I work at a public library and we have a regular patron who is a JW. He regularly reads the newspaper and comes to the desk with copies of the articles regarding natural disasters, economic calamity, etc. and says that all this portends of the end times. Yet he frequently asks me to look up various stocks to see how they are doing. Probably because the end of the world is nigh and he needs to make sure his portfolio survives Armageddon.

[Absolom]

Ratings:  973 K viewers and a .28 rating.  18th cable show of the day.

[Chaos Theory]

I have a cold dead heart but the Follis family story was chilling.  When the camera panned to everyone tearing up I teared up  a little as well. When sis has to get up and leave I felt very sad.

The weaponizing of religion and family relationships.  

misogyny at its best. a world  where women have no voice tends to have a lot of sexual abuse   

Also it’s ok to beat your wife....just don’t smoke afterwards 

beautiful humility?

Edited November 15, 2018 by Chaos Theory

[Baltimore Betty]

I have not watched the show yet but I am floored by the posts, I had no idea that JW's had such horrible things going on.  I worked closely with a JW, I considered her my friend, we had very different views on religion, I am Jewish but she never pushed her religion on me and from what I heard from her was a family sort of atmosphere at her church, a sense of community.  She did mention that they shunned people who did not adhere to their rules and I thought that was harsh but I guess that was nothing compared to what was shown in this show so far.

I am seeing her very differently now.  

[Ohiopirate02]

9 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

 

 

 

That's always been my question regard their attempts to preach to people so your telling me to give up birthdays, holidays, fun, and a whole bunch of stuff that the Jesus I was raised with is totally cool with. Why would I (or anyone) want to switch? For a joyless and depressing life? I can't imagine being a kid or raising a kid not allowed to experience any of the fun and joy of life. No fun, no parties, no dress up. My mom was always quick to toss out their tract that was left in our doors or they'd give out at schools (to be fair they weren't the only Christian group passing out tracts at the schools).  My great-grandfather's got the group to avoid him by inviting them in to talk happy to talk about their faith which they were happy to do until they realized he knew the Bible. He could counter all their arguments with different passages and explaining one's they parroted as having a different meaning or knowing that the entire passage it was taking from which they had taken out of context. He was always very polite about it. He loved a good religious debate. They soon got really quiet and made up an excuse to leave and avoided his house when they would come back through the neighborhood.    

I thought that I wouldn't be surprised by listening to each one talk.  They didn't really say anything different from other cults. So much was so much the same. But no it was still painful to hear. Rick and his poor sister and their brothers. One stayed behind and one left and they both committed suicide. The one trying hard speak to his parents even going to his brother's wedding. And of course the abuse. 

Can I just say how much I love Australia? They managed to force Scientology to open their books there and went after JW for abuse. I loved listening to the Elders being question I could have watched the whole thing. That's what needs to be done. They need to be held accountable especially for abuse and protecting the abusers.   

Your great-grandfather sounds like my grandmother.   She converted to Catholicism after marrying my grandfather.   She would invite the JWs in for a cup of coffee and debate.  It didn't take very long for the JWs to avoid the house.

[Baltimore Betty]

8 hours ago, Mom2twoNonna2one said:

My husband has worked for and with JW's. They told him they don't celebrate your birthday because it focuses on you and you are not important. But, they'll celebrate their wedding anniversary. Here's the thing about the ones we know, they have all been divorced and remarried! My response was "your birthday is always yours, but, your marriage is not sacred enough to hold onto, but, you can celebrate that?"  They have all been super nice people. He worked directly for one for about 8 years and he was very kind, lent us the work van on multiple occasions, to even travel different states, rented us his house cheap, etc., but would try to proselytize to my husband when they worked and he was stuck in the work van with him. His friend who he helped on a few jobs as they (hubby and him) owned their own separate companies in the same field of work paid my husband and paid for 2 weeks in a hotel in SW Florida for our family when hubby went down to help him. We basically got a free 2 week vacation to see family and friends. I'm grateful as it's the last time I saw my mother before she died the following February. We took her with us so she could see her dad and sisters. Worse part of that vacation was hubby and I didn't use sunscreen and had 3rd degree burns. Try driving from SW Florida to Pgh like that!!!

 

Hubby was extremely interested in this episode, it's the first he's really watched of the Leah Remini series and we were both agog at the abuses inside of the church. Here's a good rule of thumb, if you can't leave a church and keep your family, it's a cult. JW is a cult.

I went to my co-workers wedding ceremony, it was a bit different than I have been to, a weird wedding talk from an elder, the reception was a booze fueled affair, dancing all night.  The catering staff were all church members, she told me that everyone does this, work events for showers and weddings and there is no saying "no."  This was her second marriage, the only way you can get a divorce is if your spouse is unfaithful and her first husband was. So there she was about 35 years old, divorced and had to have a chaperone when she dated the guy that became husband #2.  

It's sad that all this horrible stuff is coming out because she seemed so uplifted by her church, it is all she has ever known. 

[DrSparkles]

Oooooooh, lawd. When dark curly headed girl started talking about her molestation, I started boo hoo'ing with her. Got DAMN. AND you need a witness?! Oh hell no. Leah & Mike deserve the Nobel Peace Prize.

[Baltimore Betty]

I do not see this show On Demand on Fios :(

[IntrovertRed]

13 hours ago, 2727 said:

At least Scientology lies to people to lure people into their bullshit. JW up front proselytizes through fear and doomsday threats. It seems very weird to me that some people respond to that. Or even answer their doors, to be honest.

Eight million is a lot.

Well one of the women guests said she looked through the obituaries and would contact loved ones because the families would be so deep in grief that they really responded to the JW because of their belied that the deceased would come back after Armageddon.  Pretty sick actually as a way of recruiting.

This show was so eye opening.  I commute to work and take a train and our train station in a Chicago suburb must be a "post" because they often have two people on opposite ends of the line (for a total of 4) standing behind their literature stand every morning and evening. Almost always older women too.  I had no idea JW was so cult-like, I just thought they didn't celebrate holidays.  Just shocking and I feel so naive. 

I also wonder how many people they get to join from standing at a train station everyday. I don't see anyone ever taking literature, some people say hello to them as they are friendly but most of us walk by without saying a word.  They wouldn't want me because I could never be submissive to a man. 

Also found it interesting how they talk about people who aren't JW as "worldly".  The one guy said in kindergarten he told a boy they couldn't be friends because the other boy wasn't a JW.  So if worldly people are so bad do the wordly have to do a lot of things to become a devout JW to prove themselves?

Edited November 15, 2018 by KLJ

[Baltimore Betty]

I always see two women on a corner near Liberty Place in Center City Phila., I've never seen anyone engaging them in conversation but they are always there.

Who has ever let the ones that knock on their doors in and actually converted?

[FairyDusted]

Dang it! I missed it and it's not up on Demand. Set the DVR for Sunday though. Thank you Posters for taking one for the team.

As a child in school in the 70's we brought in fresh baked goods for our class on our Birthday. For K-6 I watched my friend Jon put his chair on his desk and go home. I finally asked him some questions in 4th grade because I was upset he could not take my cupcake even if I told him it was just a snack. I asked him about the Birthday and Holiday deal. He said they didn't celebrate. Odd in my mostly Catholic neighborhood, but ok. I asked him if he ever got gifts like a new bike or record players. He told me he received them but not as gifts.

Fast Forward 3 decades. They knock on my door and I tell them I am busy with Wicca. They told me no problem. They love everyone. I didn't think they would come back but damn if they didn't try me again. Maybe I should have let them in to argue their case. Missed opportunity ! 

Glad the show is back BUT A&E programming sucks. Very few shows on in my area and no OnDemand showings.

[italianguy626]

2 hours ago, KLJ said:

This show was so eye opening.  I commute to work and take a train and our train station in a Chicago suburb must be a "post" because they often have two people on opposite ends of the line (for a total of 4) standing behind their literature stand every morning and evening. Almost always older women too.  I had no idea JW was so cult-like, I just thought they didn't celebrate holidays.  Just shocking and I feel so naive. 

I also wonder how many people they get to join from standing at a train station everyday. I don't see anyone ever taking literature, some people say hello to them as they are friendly but most of us walk by without saying a word.  They wouldn't want me because I could never be submissive to a man. 

The library I work at is in a Chicago suburb, and a couple of months ago we had the local JW Kingdom Hall Elder ask if it was ok to have two people stand outside the library all day on Wednesdays (9-5) with their information. Wonder if they realize their going door-to-door isn't working anymore and they are exploring other avenues of marketing?

I'm surprised the show didn't get into the quotas that are imposed. They used to be hard numbers, but were rescinded. However, people who have left the organization claim that "silent" quotas remain - there is an unwritten monthly quota to hit (hours spent knocking on doors and proselytizing) in order to remain in the good graces of the organization. Don't hit your quota a couple of times and you could be disfellowshipped. I also wonder if by posting people at public locations that allows their members to hit their "quotas" for the month?

[retiredviewer]

22 hours ago, libgirl2 said:

Its probably like with every religion, some toe the line more than others. Some follow a religion in name only or for certain aspects.  

From what they were saying if another JW sees you sinning, ie smoking or drinking, you can be thrown out. This is the difference between a controlling cult and a religion.

[Enigma X]

I am very unclear on the drinking thing with JWs. As I said earlier, for the most part my sister could not drink when she was a JW but the liquor was flowing at my niece's, her daughter's, wedding. My niece is more devout than my sister (and still is a JW). All of the JWs were drinking that day. In fact, that was one of the best weddings that I have ever been to. Dancing, socializing, games, music, all fun.

[blondiek237]

I have Comcast on it is on demand.  In Episodes scroll to additional shows (not in one of the seasons) it is there

[funky-rat]

On ‎11‎/‎14‎/‎2018 at 1:45 PM, Enigma X said:

One thing my nieces did that was very hypocritical. They would not buy or give each other birthday or Christmas presents but would wait a few days after to do it.

I had a friend who was somewhat a JW when I was in middle school.  Her grandmother was pretty strict about it, but her mother was an alcoholic, possibly drug abuser, who lived off welfare and had a new man in her bed every night, and frequently left her kids home alone.  She would carry copies of Paradise Lost and Paradise Regained, and was supposed to hand out tracts, but she generally wouldn't.  She wasn't allowed to come to my birthday party.  She did have a "get together" a few days after her birthday one time, and we could bring "small gifts" if we wanted to, but were not obligated to do so, and could not call them birthday gifts (I gave her a framed photo of David Lee Roth - she loved him).  I don't recall if she left the room for holiday celebrations or similar - by the time I met her, the days of bringing in cupcakes for your birthday were over, as we were considered too old for that in middle school.

At my prior job, we used to get a birthday cake every month with every name for that month on it.  A girl who worked there came in and said "Please don't put my name on the cake again.  I'm a Jehova's Witness".  She was nice about it, but firm.  Another woman I worked with was a Seventh Day Adventist, and she was all like "JW's puzzle me".  That girl had a cousin who worked with us as well, and the cousin said that only this girl and her mother were JW's - no one else was - and they were difficult about it toward other family.  They didn't attend any family weddings because they weren't allowed to set foot in any church except the Kingdom Hall (something I heard echoed a few years later on an episode of "Four Weddings").  She said the two of them were always lecturing others, etc.  Oddly enough,  I don't remember much else about her, except she had a "normal" first name, but pronounced it oddly, and would get upset with people and correct them.

On ‎11‎/‎14‎/‎2018 at 12:16 PM, andromeda331 said:

He also brought the wine! I bet Jesus danced too and had a lot of fun.

The reasoning I always hear with regard to not dancing by the stricter religions is that you're dancing for the flesh, not to please the Lord, and that dancing can stir up unwanted desires in either the dancer, or another person present.  Not that I don't vehemently disagree, but that's what they are always claiming.

[Enigma X]

3 minutes ago, funky-rat said:

Another woman I worked with was a Seventh Day Adventist, and she was all like "JW's puzzle me". 

Heh...have another sister who dabbled with the Seventh Day Adventists, and they remind me a lot of Jehovah Witnesses. (She only dabbled for a year.)

[funky-rat]

6 minutes ago, Enigma X said:

Heh...have another sister who dabbled with the Seventh Day Adventists, and they remind me a lot of Jehovah Witnesses. (She only dabbled for a year.)

They have some odd "ways" too.  The lady I worked with was super nice, and never tried to convert me, but she was some level of non-meat eater due to her religion (I can't remember if it was no red meat, or if it was only fish.

[Enigma X]

3 minutes ago, funky-rat said:

They have some odd "ways" too.  The lady I worked with was super nice, and never tried to convert me, but she was some level of non-meat eater due to her religion (I can't remember if it was no red meat, or if it was only fish.

I honestly have never met a mean JW or SDA.  I think they are vegetarian.