Special: The Jehovah's Witnesses

[msrachelj]

i was not really interested in the jw's but this pretty enlightening . had no idea they were this nuts. so sad about all the suicides and molestations.... i think they can do this show on just about every religion, even the "normal" ones like catholicism and judaism. being a catholic, i think about how some of our teachings sound and seem to others. plain crazy! i do hope they go back to scientology also.

leah did not interact as much as usual, but did mike speak more than once or twice?

and on a shallow note. what did leah do to her face now? i hardly recognized her and i couldn't look away. i kept trying to see what was so different. the eyes and very prominent cheek bones. maybe some botox/skin dermaplaining, facelift? it looks odd. she looked  better last year even with the troweled on make up. 

[fountain]

My grandmother was a JW but she got into the religion as an adult when her kids were grown so it isn't anything my mother experienced.  The only thing we saw as kids were the books and watchtower magazine and the fact we know my grandmother must have given up our names as even today they find me and know my name when I mistakenly answer the door (my grandmother was alive when I married).  I won't lie, I just take the watchtower magazine say I am in the middle of fixing dinner and close the door.  I don't really tell them to go away and never come back, I guess I am bit of chicken as they seem like nice enough young women.  I put the watchtower in the trash after having a good hearty laugh with my husband about some of the articles as I am would not be a good JW wife lol.

My grandmother's funeral was the weirdest one I have been to ever in my life as there was very little about her and it was all the JW BS that these folks talked about.  I guess because my grandmother joined older and none of us joined and were kicked out she was still allowed a relationship with us.  Even her own husband was not a JW and did not want a JW funeral so even though my grandmother was alive, my grandfather's funeral was with a United Christian Minister. My grandmother did celebrate things like birthdays, Halloween, etc. so she wasn't devout enough to give that stuff up.

[Mrs peel]

On 11/14/2018 at 12:01 PM, libgirl2 said:

Its probably like with every religion, some toe the line more than others. Some follow a religion in name only or for certain aspects.  

I wonder if the ones with more leeway give more to the church.  Unless I missed it, there was no explanation of the church’s finances.

cant remember whether it was during the show or some preview ad, but Mike’s comment about the difference between a cult and a religion is what happens when you try to leave.  Certainly applies to Scientology and jehovahs witnesses.

someone questioned why anyone would agree to give up holidays.  If you buy into the “everyone is damned and will die except us”, giving up holidays probably doesn’t seem that bad.  But what a joyless life it seemed.

[Mrs peel]

17 hours ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

Your great-grandfather sounds like my grandmother.   She converted to Catholicism after marrying my grandfather.   She would invite the JWs in for a cup of coffee and debate.  It didn't take very long for the JWs to avoid the house.

Always bet on the Catholic convert in a battle!  As someone with a Catholic convert grandmother myself!

[veronicamers]

51 minutes ago, funky-rat said:

The reasoning I always hear with regard to not dancing by the stricter religions is that you're dancing for the flesh, not to please the Lord, and that dancing can stir up unwanted desires in either the dancer, or another person present.  Not that I don't vehemently disagree, but that's what they are always claiming.

A sentiment made unforgettably by Tory in the documentary Jesus Camp!

[2727]

5 hours ago, Baltimore Betty said:

Who has ever let the ones that knock on their doors in and actually converted?

From Wikipedia: "The 2008 U.S. Pew Forum on Religion & Public Life survey found a low retention rate among members of the denomination: about 37% of people raised in the group continued to identify themselves as Jehovah's Witnesses. The study also found that 65% of adult Jehovah's Witnesses in the US are converts."

Crazy.

[Ohiopirate02]

13 minutes ago, Mrs peel said:

Always bet on the Catholic convert in a battle!  As someone with a Catholic convert grandmother myself!

Also from the stories told of her (she died when I was 4), chances are she was not drinking plain coffee.  

 

35 minutes ago, msrachelj said:

i was not really interested in the jw's but this pretty enlightening . had no idea they were this nuts. so sad about all the suicides and molestations.... i think they can do this show on just about every religion, even the "normal" ones like catholicism and judaism. being a catholic, i think about how some of our teachings sound and seem to others. plain crazy! i do hope they go back to scientology also.

leah did not interact as much as usual, but did mike speak more than once or twice?

and on a shallow note. what did leah do to her face now? i hardly recognized her and i couldn't look away. i kept trying to see what was so different. the eyes and very prominent cheek bones. maybe some botox/skin dermaplaining, facelift? it looks odd. she looked  better last year even with the troweled on make up. 

I can also see them looking into Catholic subgroups like Opus Dei and some Evangelical Christian groups especially the church started by Bill Gothard.  The possibilities are endless, and I would watch every episode.  

[TiredMe]

A few weeks ago I was getting in my car which was parked inside my garage (door open), when someone knocked on my passenger window. It was lady and her son and scared the daylights out of me. They had come onto my property without asking. I rolled the window down a inch and she said we see you are leaving but wanted to leave you some reading material. I was so surprised by the entire exchange that I just took it, said nothing and put my window back up. Of course it was JW pamphlet. I was fuming on the way to the gym that they came onto my property and I didn't say anything. Well this past Saturday the lady and her son  knocked on my door for quite a while. As I never answer my door unless I am expecting a food delivery, I ignored but could see it was the same lady as she was getting back in the car. So unfortunately I am now a target.  This episode was chilling honestly. 

My neighbor is a christian scientist which I really do not know too much about other than she doesnt drink or go to the doctor. She said- I saw that cult lady on your doorstep.   

Edited November 15, 2018 by TiredMe

[Quilt Fairy]

My mother would never have let them in (and we weren't a religious family to begin with), but growing up in Chicago I remember seeing The Watchtower pamphlets on a regular basis, so they must have left them in the door.

I have a friend who is a great bullshitter, and when the JWs knocked on his door he started quoting bible verses at them - except they were all fake like "Well, what about Dominicus  4 verse 6 or Agapanthas 1 verse 7?"  They always left quickly.

Edited November 15, 2018 by Quilt Fairy

[funky-rat]

13 minutes ago, veronicamers said:

A sentiment made unforgettably by Tory in the documentary Jesus Camp!

That movie scared the crap out of me.

4 minutes ago, TiredMe said:

A few weeks ago I was getting in my car which was parked inside my garage (door open), when someone knocked on my passenger window. It was lady and her son and scared the daylights out of me. They had come onto my property without asking. I rolled the window down a inch and she said we see you are leaving but wanted to leave you some reading material. I was so surprised by the entire exchange that I just took it, said nothing and put my window back up. Of course it was JW pamphlet. I was fuming on the way to the gym that they came onto my property and I didn't say anything. Well this past Saturday the lady and her son  knocked on my door for quite a while. As I never answer my door unless I am expecting a food delivery, I ignored but could see it was the same lady as she was getting back in the car. So unfortunately I am now a target.  This episode was chilling honestly. 

My neighbor is a christian scientist (they do not believe in going to the doctor- she is 76 and has never been). She said- I saw that cult lady on your doorstep.   

Christian Scientists have some off the wall beliefs as well, and if she sees JW's as a cult, that says something.

[Quilt Fairy]

5 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

I can also see them looking into Catholic subgroups like Opus Dei and some Evangelical Christian groups especially the church started by Bill Gothard.  The possibilities are endless, and I would watch every episode.

Your prayers have been answered.

Quote

Word of Faith Fellowship is a notorious church in Spindale, North Carolina where the congregation has beaten a gay member to get rid of his “homosexual demons,” shaken babies to banish their demons, used Brazilian worshipers as slaves, and committed unemployment fraud so worshipers would keep tithing. The church also controlled the sex lives of its congregation, including married couples (30-minute limit. No foreplay. No lights. Only missionary).

 

Quote

Now the church and its victims will be the subjects of a new six-part documentary on A&E called The Devil Next Door. A brief trailer was just released online and notes the show will premiere on November 27.

[veronicamers]

14 minutes ago, Quilt Fairy said:

Your prayers have been answered.

What the what? I grew up in North Carolina and have never even heard of World of Faith Fellowship. These cults man....operating in the shadows, destroying people's lives.

[LadyNebula]

I had a friend growing up who was JW but he was super low key. He'd talk about it if asked, and everyone knew he was a JW, but he sure didn't flaunt it. Although they came to my door once and later he said he was at the other side of the double (our town was mostly row homes) and wouldn't knock on my door.  Not sure if he still practices. I doubt it. He went to college and moved far away. 

 

Another time they came to my door and I said I'd get my Dad to talk religion with them. They beat feet outta there. Maybe because I mentioned my Dad was a UCC minister...??

[Baltimore Betty]

1 hour ago, 2727 said:

From Wikipedia: "The 2008 U.S. Pew Forum on Religion & Public Life survey found a low retention rate among members of the denomination: about 37% of people raised in the group continued to identify themselves as Jehovah's Witnesses. The study also found that 65% of adult Jehovah's Witnesses in the US are converts."

Crazy.

Go figure.

[msrachelj]

3 hours ago, TiredMe said:

A few weeks ago I was getting in my car which was parked inside my garage (door open), when someone knocked on my passenger window. It was lady and her son and scared the daylights out of me. They had come onto my property without asking. I rolled the window down a inch and she said we see you are leaving but wanted to leave you some reading material. I was so surprised by the entire exchange that I just took it, said nothing and put my window back up. Of course it was JW pamphlet. I was fuming on the way to the gym that they came onto my property and I didn't say anything. Well this past Saturday the lady and her son  knocked on my door for quite a while. As I never answer my door unless I am expecting a food delivery, I ignored but could see it was the same lady as she was getting back in the car. So unfortunately I am now a target.  This episode was chilling honestly. 

My neighbor is a christian scientist which I really do not know too much about other than she doesnt drink or go to the doctor. She said- I saw that cult lady on your doorstep.   

they always come onto your property without asking! i have had these car full of 3 or 4 people come  down my drive and  2 of them get out and head up to the door or find me when i'm outside. not in a while but i had them regularly for a bit there.

[Chaos Theory]

Leah and Mike didn’t know as much about JW as they do about scientology so they sat back and let the participants tell their stories.  Which worked very well for the panel.  They commented when they had something to say (especially Leah) and when something was especially heartbreaking like the story about the girl who got molested and the woman who got beaten by her husband and finally got rid of him because he smoked.   

[BradandJanet]

The end-time evangelicals and the JW strike me as so similar--religions focused on doom and gloom until the payoff comes. The payoff is slightly different, however. The evangelicals don't consider the JW Christians. I don't know how it works in reverse. 

Jehovah Witnesses are not political. They don't follow politics or vote. I had a couple of JWs as tenants in an apartment I rented. Husband and wife had jobs. She wore makeup and regular clothing. They were pacifists and wouldn't let their little boy have toy guns. Of course, every stick in the yard was a play gun for the little guy. 

[howiveaddict]

The JW's use the local stadium, in my city for their annual convention. It lasts two weekends, it is so big.  My city is all thrilled about it due to all the extra income that comes in those weekends.  It's covered on the news and every thing.

There used to be a young nurse, on my unit, who was a JW.  I work on a cancer unit which gives many blood transfusions.  She refused, of course to give them.  She left, (may have been fired for other reasons).  I think she works now where she wouldn't have to give blood products.  

I once took care of a 7th day adventist who refused to be treated with heparin because it is made from pork. I guess they follow a kosher like diet, but also vegetarian.

[MichaelaRae]

12 hours ago, italianguy626 said:

The library I work at is in a Chicago suburb, and a couple of months ago we had the local JW Kingdom Hall Elder ask if it was ok to have two people stand outside the library all day on Wednesdays (9-5) with their information. Wonder if they realize their going door-to-door isn't working anymore and they are exploring other avenues of marketing?

Given that the last three neighborhoods i've lived in over the past 15 years have had only nodding acquaintance with one another (you know, the typical "nod and wave in the driveways" kind of neighborship) but would literally have a phone tree (and now a social network contact network) just to warn the rest of the neighborhood when we see the Godbotherers - and JWs are the most common ones so.... - yeah, they might want to rethink their approach. Does anyone even open the door anymore to these folks?

[Quilt Fairy]

Just a note to those who want to catch this special on Sunday: the repeat is scheduled for 5pm-7pm (CST).  The episode listed as new at 7pm is indeed a new episode with Leah and Mike reflecting on the difficulties of leaving CoS.

[Trini]

12 hours ago, Enigma X said:

I honestly have never met a mean JW or SDA.  I think they are vegetarian. 

Not all of us! :) Approximately half are vegetarian.

3 hours ago, howiveaddict said:

I once took care of a 7th day adventist who refused to be treated with heparin because it is made from pork. I guess they follow a kosher like diet, but also vegetarian.

Yes, there are certain meats we're not supposed to eat, similar to a kosher diet.

And yeah, the SDA way of dealing with JWs is Bible study - because many of their beliefs aren't Biblical.

Edited November 16, 2018 by Trini

[Diane Mars]

My answer when they come to my door is always : I'm a Scientologist. Do you know about Scientology and the genius that was LRH ? Success rate : 100% ;) ;) ;)

[funky-rat]

15 hours ago, howiveaddict said:

I once took care of a 7th day adventist who refused to be treated with heparin because it is made from pork. I guess they follow a kosher like diet, but also vegetarian.

I worked with an SDA, and she was really nice.  Not pushy or preachy.  She found the JW co-worker a bit "odd" and didn't understand why they did the things they did (I told her none of us did).  She wasn't vegetarian, but only ate certain meats.  I can't recall which, but I'm pretty sure some form of fish was OK.  She never wore pants, but I'm pretty sure that was her choice, and not something having to do with the SDA.

[libgirl2]

7 hours ago, Diane Mars said:

My answer when they come to my door is always : I'm a Scientologist. Do you know about Scientology and the genius that was LRH ? Success rate : 100% ;) ;) ;)

Good idea!!!

[Enigma X]

When anyone I don't want to talk to comes to my door, I simply don't open it. I don't turn down my TV or tiptoe around either. 

[Maelstrom]

19 hours ago, Enigma X said:

When anyone I don't want to talk to comes to my door, I simply don't open it. I don't turn down my TV or tiptoe around either. 

I have been known to hide behind the couch so they can't see me from the window. Cowardly, but effective. ;) Then again, JWs and others have a strange tendency to come when I or one of my family members is sick, when the desire to deal with them is even lower than normal.

[Absolom]

The living room and family room in this house are on the back.  I'll never have another house with the room I sit in open to view from the front of the house again.  I can peacefully go through life pretending I don't hear them knock on the door.  :)

[Enigma X]

3 minutes ago, Maelstrom said:

I have been known to hide behind the couch so they can't see me from the window. Cowardly, but effective. ;) Then again, JWs and others have a strange tendency to come when I or one of my family members is sick, when the desire to deal with them is even lower than normal.

My house that I lived in when I was growing up had big windows that you could see into if you were on the porch. At an early age,  I learned to politely shake my head "no" when someone I did not want to speak to came to the door. It was mainly due to being "caught" by a JW around the time I realized I was agnostic.  Anyway, if they (JWs, salesmen, uninvited "guest") continue to ring or knock, I ignore them. They eventually leave.

[galaxychaser]

Is it on hulu?

[andromeda331]

I've found it fun to tell them I'm a witch and belong to Wicca when they come to the door. The looks on their faces is awesome. They usually can't leave fast enough. Too bad I always wish to go on mentioning Goddess and inviting them to the next Wicca holiday or invite them to the next wiccaning. 

Edited November 18, 2018 by andromeda331

[Chaos Theory]

Next time one of them comes to your door ask if they ever heard of the Church of Satan.  

[ramble]

On 11/15/2018 at 1:31 PM, msrachelj said:

i was not really interested in the jw's but this pretty enlightening . had no idea they were this nuts. so sad about all the suicides and molestations.

I knew none of this either. As y’all have mentioned this seems like such a completely joyless cult. I’m not surprised that it has a high rate of coverts. Just listening to the show I felt like it was a perfect hidden hunting ground for pedophiles. The two witness rule is a gift to abusers. Just disgusting  

I personally appreciated that Leah (I think it was her) separated this religion from Christianity. There is no grace or mercy anywhere to be found in their ideas. The fact that they seem perfectly all right with people going to hell is hard for me to process when they claim to believe in a version of Christ. What about the idea that God desires all to be saved? I guess that isn’t a verse they cherry pick to count as worthy of being handed down from the council on high. And it seems every cult has a version of disfellowshipping. You leave us and you are now dead to us. Yet again where is the grace or mercy or hope that the person comes back if you truly believe in the teachings? It’s like there is no love at all in this cult. 

[lovesnark]

11 hours ago, Chaos Theory said:

Next time one of them comes to your door ask if they ever heard of the Church of Satan.  

I've been telling them I worship Satan ( I don't) if I bother to answer the door for years! It's quite effective. I've noticed a  decline in   religious knockers in recent years, but they seem to come in waves when they do show up. I wonder how many of them are bitten by dogs annually?

[roguery]

I told the last batch of JWs that I was a Druid and asked them if they’d give me their addresses so that I could come and discuss my religion with them. They skedaddled quickly. Then I called my next door neighbor to warn him of their imminent visit and to discuss with them *his* Druid faith. I’m pretty sure they think there’s an active Druid enclave out here in the country. In any event, they’ve never come back.

[BonnieD]

I'm not completely rude, just very curt. "I already have a religion. I'm not interested." Shut door. Ignoring knocking or doorbell ringing is not an option IMO. For one thing my dogs will go nuts until the person on the doorstep goes away. But I also think the "visitor" needs to be sent packing in no uncertain terms.

I'm glad they covered the JWs and hope to see more specials about other cults and fringe religions included on Leah's show. She can morph the original show into exposing the unpleasant truths about any or every religious organization. I'd keep watching.

[princelina]

On 11/14/2018 at 11:05 AM, libgirl2 said:

Oh and I do remember, they don't read the Bible, they read Watchtower that gives them "pieces" or "meals" of quotes and an explanation. They also don't believe in that God, the Father, Jesus and the Holy Spirit are the same. They are three separate entities. If I am wrong, I did read this in several books when I was exploring religions and cults. 

 

On 11/14/2018 at 1:36 PM, Lugal said:

Although it was funny on the show that for a supposedly Christian cult the name Jesus wasn't mentioned once.  

 

On 11/15/2018 at 8:24 PM, BradandJanet said:

 The evangelicals don't consider the JW Christians. I don't know how it works in reverse. 

I believe "in reverse" = if you are not a JW it doesn't matter :). I had a JW friend who explained to me that they believe in Jesus, but He is only God's son and not God's equal.  Which means they are not Christian.  Also, Christians put their faith in Jesus Christ for salvation, not a board of elders.  So while JWs may consider themselves Christian, they are not.

[pinguina]

Oh, My!!   I remember JWs coming to our house and my mom (who didn't speak English!) in a loud whisper saying, "HIDE!"  My dad on the other hand loved to confront them and tell them why they were wrong.  He'd pull out his Bible and have looong talks with them.  Sometimes they came back just to talk with him! BTW we are Catholic :)

I found the things that the panel shared so sad.  I've always felt that a relationship with God is joyous and life giving - not morose and dark which this one seems to be.  The things that they endured and not allowed to talk about or even able to defend themselves seemed so the opposite of how I was raised to believe.

[CatS]

I wonder if some Kingdom Halls are more lenient than others? My great uncle was a JW convert in the 40s (kept him from being drafted into WWII). He remained a JW until his death and raised all his kids as JWs but none of his kids were strict about it and most have left the religion. One of his daughters was one of my favorite relatives when I was growing up. She was very fun and came to all of our family celebrations, including birthdays and Christmas. We gave each other gifts all the time. She never hid any of that either, and I'm pretty sure she smoked and drank occasionally too. She never acted concerned about other JWs finding out and she went to "the hall" regularly. 

[MaggieG]

12 hours ago, CatS said:

I wonder if some Kingdom Halls are more lenient than others? My great uncle was a JW convert in the 40s (kept him from being drafted into WWII). He remained a JW until his death and raised all his kids as JWs but none of his kids were strict about it and most have left the religion. One of his daughters was one of my favorite relatives when I was growing up. She was very fun and came to all of our family celebrations, including birthdays and Christmas. We gave each other gifts all the time. She never hid any of that either, and I'm pretty sure she smoked and drank occasionally too. She never acted concerned about other JWs finding out and she went to "the hall" regularly. 

I worked with a JW who was raised in it. His parents are very devout and he married another JW. They were both virgins. They ended up moving to a different state because he wanted to get away from church. Meanwhile, she wanted to get more into it. They ended up divorcing and he distanced himself from JW. He's much happier now, he drinks, celebrates his birthday and holidays. He does go to the Kingdom Hall every once in a while ( I think he said once or twice a year) but he's not devout at all.

I'm wondering the same thing about some Kingdom Halls being more lenient because his parents are still practicing JW but they haven't disavowed him or anything. They do live in a different states so he doesn't see them that often but they still have a relationship. 

[estellasmum]

Some people in JW land certainly aren't as strict as others. My mom's family has nothing to do with me to the point of I was at Costco once, and saw my aunt (her sister) and the aunt saw me, and took a hard right with her cart to get as far away from me as possible, and crashed her cart into a little older lady. One of my aunts in my  dad's family has actively pursued a Facebook relationship with me at least. But most of my generation on that side of my family has left, and I know that my mom's family felt she was marrying "down" when she married my dad because they "weren't as strong in the truth" as my family was. Other factors can be if the person has gotten baptized or not. If you haven't gotten baptized there is less they can do to you. I was actively encouraged to do so from about age 8, and got baptized at age 12, which is when you should be making all big life decisions, right? It also depends on the culture. My Kingdom Hall shared the same building with a Spanish speaking congregation, and they were nowhere near as strict about shunning disfellowshipped people as the English speaking congregation was. I remember one of the Elders in our congregation saying in a very disparaging way that if they made the Spanish congregation enforce the no contact with DF'd people rule, most of the congregation would leave.

[iMonrey]

This was as depressing as the stories about families broken apart by Scientology, along with the similar suicides. I'm not sure what motivated them (Leah, etc.) to branch out and cover this, but I did find it interesting to learn they have set up some sort of center where people can go when they escape these cults. In both instances people have expressed that they literally had nowhere to go or to live. That one woman spoke of living in a tent. So it's nice to hear that Leah, Mike and Co. have done something constructive with all of this and are doing more to help than just listening to these peoples' stories.

[Rlb8031]

On 11/15/2018 at 2:45 PM, Mrs peel said:

I wonder if the ones with more leeway give more to the church.  Unless I missed it, there was no explanation of the church’s finances.

cant remember whether it was during the show or some preview ad, but Mike’s comment about the difference between a cult and a religion is what happens when you try to leave.  Certainly applies to Scientology and jehovahs witnesses.

someone questioned why anyone would agree to give up holidays.  If you buy into the “everyone is damned and will die except us”, giving up holidays probably doesn’t seem that bad.  But what a joyless life it seemed.

Regarding finances, JW's are sitting on ton of money these days made from some good real estate plays in the 70's. Back then, when NYC was tanking, they brought a bunch of property (old abandoned warehouses, hotels, apartment buildings, etc.) in downtown Brooklyn. They made it their headquarters for the religion as well as the print shop for their tracts and the Watchtower. Fast forward post 9-11 and they were sitting on a ton of really expensive property. They decided to decamp for upstate NY and one by one put their valuable portfolio on the market (side note, one of the more famous/infamous sales was to Jared Kushner). Estimates are that they've netted in excess of $1B.

https://www.newsweek.com/jared-kushner-takes-down-famous-jehovahs-witness-brooklyn-waterfront-breaking-741861

[estellasmum]

It is mostly financed on the backs of the members. They used to charge for their publications years ago, but then that would have taken away their tax exempt status, so Jehovah changed his mind, and went to a donation only arrangement for everything. They are very proud of the fact that they don't tithe, but there are constant reminders to donate, and they have things set up like, how you can leave your money to them in your will, and other financial arrangements like that, and they have taken credit cards at their gatherings for awhile now. My grandpa used to be in charge of the money at assemblies, and once I went with him to pick up money from the contribution boxes. They were packed full, yet they made an announcement that the assembly was running at a large deficit. I don't ever remember them not running at a large deficit, and then people would contribute more. Rlb was correct, they had vast properties in Brooklyn and Brooklyn heights, and not only have they sold them for $1billion, they had free renovations on those properties from the people working at their headquarters. When a Kingdom Hall is built, the individual congregation takes out a loan from headquarters, which is then paid back with interest, (from donations from people in the hall) and then if the hall is ever sold, the money goes straight back to headquarters, not the people who donated, because it is the property of the organization. A lot of ex-Jws that I've seen call it a real estate corporation, not a religion.

[princelina]

2 hours ago, iMonrey said:

This was as depressing as the stories about families broken apart by Scientology, along with the similar suicides. I'm not sure what motivated them (Leah, etc.) to branch out and cover this, but I did find it interesting to learn they have set up some sort of center where people can go when they escape these cults. In both instances people have expressed that they literally had nowhere to go or to live. That one woman spoke of living in a tent. So it's nice to hear that Leah, Mike and Co. have done something constructive with all of this and are doing more to help than just listening to these peoples' stories.

She said at the beginning that they had been contacted by lots of JWs who thought that leaving their "church" was similar to Scientologists leaving theirs.

[Ohiopirate02]

3 hours ago, estellasmum said:

It is mostly financed on the backs of the members. They used to charge for their publications years ago, but then that would have taken away their tax exempt status, so Jehovah changed his mind, and went to a donation only arrangement for everything. They are very proud of the fact that they don't tithe, but there are constant reminders to donate, and they have things set up like, how you can leave your money to them in your will, and other financial arrangements like that, and they have taken credit cards at their gatherings for awhile now. My grandpa used to be in charge of the money at assemblies, and once I went with him to pick up money from the contribution boxes. They were packed full, yet they made an announcement that the assembly was running at a large deficit. I don't ever remember them not running at a large deficit, and then people would contribute more. Rlb was correct, they had vast properties in Brooklyn and Brooklyn heights, and not only have they sold them for $1billion, they had free renovations on those properties from the people working at their headquarters. When a Kingdom Hall is built, the individual congregation takes out a loan from headquarters, which is then paid back with interest, (from donations from people in the hall) and then if the hall is ever sold, the money goes straight back to headquarters, not the people who donated, because it is the property of the organization. A lot of ex-Jws that I've seen call it a real estate corporation, not a religion.

I'm intrigued about what you have to say about building the halls.  The local hall in my area is across the street from my neighborhood.  They just built it about 2 years ago.  It looked like the Jws built it themselves.   The construction took a long time for a simple building.   I would drive by it on a daily basis and I never saw any contractor vehicles on the property.  So the only cost seemed to be materials. 

[estellasmum]

Yes, they do it themselves. People from surrounding congregations come and help, and they have regional building committees to take charge. Some of the more specialized work might require bringing in someone from a congregation farther away, and they do so on their own time and expenses. My uncle was not raised a JW, and he has a college education, and he was constantly travelling on his own dime. When I was in, they were very proud they could build a Kingdom Hall in about a weekend, so I'm surprised it took such a long time. They did have it pretty worked out how to do it.

[cynicat]

On 11/15/2018 at 2:31 PM, msrachelj said:

i was not really interested in the jw's but this pretty enlightening . had no idea they were this nuts. so sad about all the suicides and molestations.... i think they can do this show on just about every religion, even the "normal" ones like catholicism and judaism. being a catholic, i think about how some of our teachings sound and seem to others. plain crazy! i do hope they go back to scientology also.

I totally agree with you @msrachelj and I was a little hesitant to say it.  Well stated. Personally I think all religions are cray.

That being said, Leah and Mike could easily do this show until the end of time exposing some of the most extreme sects of religions/cults and I would watch every single show.

[Sherrie]

Imagine my surprise when I found my birth family and discovered my brother is a very, hard core JW. I ask him every question under the sun. His wife is JW and they were married after 8 dates. His 2 sons from a previous marriage, his former wife passed away, are hard core JW also. Remember in the beginning they said 140,000 will go rule the earth, with God and Jesus, in heaven? These 140,000 are the best of the best, never even have a harmful or judgmental thought. And guess what? My nephew is one of them. When I asked my brother about it he said they are basically perfect, like Jesus. When I asked him who decided if a person is worthy of being picked he said they aren’t picked, they know their heart and pick themselves. Ah, okaaaay. He said every single thing they believe and do is based on the Bible, and that if you have a question about anything you can find it in the Bible, but have to read all verses pertaining to it or it is taken out of context. He did not answer fully, I believe, as to what if there is abuse in marriage. He said it is a crime and needs to be reported. I got a sense to back off from the question. Anything with a history that is pagan or wrong is not celebrated or practiced, such as yoga, meditation (it can let the devil in), being a magician, any holiday etc. they do not need to celebrate holidays because they practice the Bible every day and that is more important. When someone dies they go to sleep. When Armageddon comes, and now they are being told it is very, very soon, everyone goes to live on earth. If someone was really, really bad then they will be judged as to if it was free will or if the devil was controlling them. If Charles Manson was actually being controlled by the devil then we will have to all live with him on earth. If the devil had him he will go to sleep forever. The people on earth will be taught by JWs for the next 10,000 years and then each person decides if they want to live on earth forever as a JW or if they want to go to the big sleep. Prince was also JW because my brother would see him at yearly meetings. So much more I can’t think of right now. Oh, and I was raised Presbyterian and Lutheran so I have as many questions as you all. He can associate with me sparingly as they feel “you are the company you keep”. He isn’t too happy about the banning of the JWs in Australia. I already knew the story and didn’t ask him about it as I afraid he won’t associate with me any more if I show too much negativity. They have cut the time they spend at each home they go to just long enough to hand out a pamphlet. They are being told the end is so soon that it is best to concentrate on followers and not spend as much time trying to convince people, that it is too late for that.

[BradandJanet]

The JWs have been predicting the end times for as long as I can remember. I recall being terrified as a child about one such prediction from a neighbor. They used to set dates. Now, it's just "soon." The dated predictions came and went too many times, so that was a bummer for the faithful. 

Edited November 24, 2018 by BradandJanet

[Readalot]

I was raised JW from birth until I left home after HS graduation. I did not get baptized which was unusual. I can’t wait to see this and then I will comment. - Yrust me, JW’s read the Bible. The y go to the hall three times a week. Lots of bible studying and reading. I have to say the JW people I grew up around are some of the nicest people on earth.  - Over the years  half of my family and extended family left and half stayed including my mom and brother. I asked her to not preach to me anymore a few years back. And yes since I remember in the early 70’s the end of the world was near was preached . Lot of fear growning up, we were all so anxious.  Any yes, for the most part it was joyless. 

Edited November 25, 2018 by Readalot