S07.E05: The Demon

[Lady Calypso]

Quote

FELICTY DISCOVERS A SECRET ABOUT OLIVER; CURTIS GOES UNDERCOVER — Felicity (Emily Bett Rickards) learns something new about Oliver (Stephen Amell) that shocks her. Meanwhile, Diggle (David Ramsey) asks Curtis (Echo Kellum) to go undercover for ARGUS. Dinah (Juliana Harkavy) works with an unlikely ally. Mark Bunting directed the episode written by Benjamin Raab & Deric A. Hughes (#705). Original airdate 11/12/2018.

[insomniadreams88]

That episode was so boring.

I enjoyed the Felicity/Laurel scenes. Did not enjoy the addition of Dinah to some of them. But at the same time, I find it so sad that Laurel may be the best friend Felicity has in Star City right now. 

The fight scenes in the prison were good, but other than that, I'm over the prison storyline. (Still.)

My feelings on the Curtis/Diggle storyline: Shut up. I'm over Diggle talking to everyone except Felicity about how they're feeling. 

As for the ending, ugh, that's all. 

[calliope1975]

I don't have much to say because that was a snoozefest. Prison Oliver is hot and please keep his S1 fighting style around. Good on Talia for following through. She has more integrity than NTA. To repeat myself from the live thread - Team Felicity 4 Lyfe! That's all I've got on this one. 

[JJ928]

I'm cool with FS/LL being friends I like their scenes together. I liked the Talia/Oliver dynamic as we got closer to the end, and I hope we see her again soon. The rest of the episode was kinda boring. I need this show to start giving Digg something to do other than babysit Curtis.

[Sunshine]

Anybody miss Rene??

[apinknightmare]

This is going to drive me nuts but Oliver wasn't sentenced to prison based on his conviction, he went in on a deal with Watson. How is that going to work out?

Really enjoyed Felicity and Laurel until Dinah stepped in. Although I do wish the show would've shown at least a little bit of a struggle with Laurel being a lawyer - there would've actually been some good storytelling in there, but I guess we can't really have that. 

The Demon thing was a road to nowhere, but I liked that Talia kept her word and that Oliver let her escape. Still not sure how she would've allowed herself to actually go to prison though. 

 

Oh well, sense. We can't be making it!

[Primal Slayer]

So lets just get this part over with: This episode would've been so much better if we deleted the Diggle/Curtis subplot. It was boring as hell and they make the most boring Arrow duo in the shows history. Those two together working Argus is the worst.

Now besides them I enjoyed the rest of the episode.

Introducing Talia back into the mix and making her "The Demon"...very cleaver show. Her being connected to Diaz off screen...eh...ok I guess. Her and Oliver were a dynamic duo that I enjoyed watching, it was nice to get some resolution of her character from the island. Their fight scenes were great, dynamic great, though Oliver sacrificed himself so she could be free how heroic of him. 

When we take S1 out of the equation, we have not gotten a scene with all of Arrows females in the same scene alone. Letting that set in was very sad to think about. Even having 1:1's with each other we didnt get anything substantial since Laurel/Thea in S4 so this entire plot made me so happy. I've been yearning for a female centric episode for SO LONG and now this makes me yearn for one even more, please make it happen BS. Laurel/Felicity are like Salt/Pepper, they just mix so well together it is fantastic to watch them and we got plenty of them tonight on all levels. Adding Dinah into the mix didn't add much but I did enjoy her brief snark with Laurel and just seeing all 3 work together in general. They were able to take down Lvl2 together which is a huge win. Laurels learning empathy, Felicity has been learning how to ruthless to get what she wants, Dinah's been Dinah. Everything about it was very refreshing.

1 minute ago, Sunshine said:

Anybody miss Rene??

Though Rene is more interesting then Curtis.

[tennisgurl]

Its amazing how any scene with Curtis just sucks the interest out of a scene. And I LOVE how Digg gets to babysit Curtis in boring AF ARGUS missions and give him pep talks while he ignores how his best friend is about to be lobotomized, while one of his other best friends is on the verge of a full on breakdown. And its so great that that we get to dedicate so much of the episode to Curtis doing what he does best: bitching about his own life choices and how being a vigilante sucks, and how he was apparently dragged kicking and screaming into it. I mean, I remember how no one really wanted to to do anything but tech support, that he was a liability from day one, and he choose being a vigilante over his own damn husband, but what do I know!?! All of that is so freaking awesome!

*chugs booze* 

[BkWurm1]

That was an episode of total filler, wasn't it?  Get Curtis back into wanting to go in the field.  Check.  Wrap up Lv 2.  Check.  Reintroduce Talia.  Check.  Felicity is still worried about Oliver.  Check.  Seed some possible Argus stuff and a possible way to get Oliver out.  Check.  Hi Anatoly.  Check.  

Nothing in the episode was actually important.  

Edited November 13, 2018 by BkWurm1

[Guest]

Gotta admit I was mostly bored.

I liked the Felicity/Laurel team-up (although that end scene where Felicity is like "Are you asking me on a friend date?" was kinda weird) but they basically ruined it with Dinah and her annoying smug patronizing ass. "Why don't you just go back to witness protection?" she said, as if Felicity wasn't almost killed by Diaz there. Is she for real? Can Dinah get any worse?

Prison is boring me now. It's almost a shame Talia's stunt double thing was spoiled because I would have been genuinely surprised by her appearance otherwise. 

Curtis has got to go. His crying about how he's so hard done by because he lost his marriage and blah blah blah NO ONE CARES. No one asked Curtis to join this kind of life. GTFO. Diggle hyping him up was especially frustrating not just because Curtis is useless but because he's been such a shit friend to Felicity it feels like he's supporting and propping everyone but her. 

I've literally just this second realized Rene wasn't in the episode. OMG that doesn't bode well. Haha.

[BkWurm1]

I am still enjoying Silencer's effects when she is on screen

[apinknightmare]

16 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

I am still enjoying Silencer's effects when she is on screen

I would like it very much if she was next to Diaz in every other scene from here on out and using her effect so I just kind of heard him like he was shouting at me underwater. Might make it bearable. 

Edited November 13, 2018 by apinknightmare

[insomniadreams88]

4 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

"Why don't you just go back to witness protection?" she said, as if Felicity wasn't almost killed by Diaz there. Is she for real? Can Dinah get any worse?

THIS. All it did was make me think I was right when I thought Diggle + NTA wanted Felicity back in witness protection so they wouldn't have to be faced with how much she's suffering and just forget about her while they're all living great lives. 

1 minute ago, apinknightmare said:

I would like it very much if she was next to Diaz in ever other scene from here on out and using her effect so I just kind of heard him like he was shouting at me underwater. Might make it bearable. 

I think everyone around him would appreciate it as well. 

[La Dee Da]

Two filler episodes back to back. Oliver is back to where he started, with no indication of what is to come for him. I enjoyed the Laurel - Felicity and Felicity - Stanley ( I LOLed at his “he’s the best!”) interactions but I lost track of the ARGUS plot. I think nothing will come from Talia (love that she was the Demon - sometimes the easiest choice is best) working with Diaz - I think that was just to “remind” Oliver and us about Diaz’s drug printing abilities. 

I think this episode missed an opportunity to address the psychological issues of being a vigilante in an interesting way. Oliver really would benefit from talking to a true professional. I guess Curtis is still a vigilante in training - he talks about the consequences of vigilantism but doesn’t situate his role in causing them the way Oliver does. Perhaps he needs a 15th PhD in psychology? 

[apinknightmare]

2 minutes ago, La Dee Da said:

Perhaps he needs a 15th PhD in psychology? 

Yes, yes, he should go to Offscreensville University and get one.

[GHScorpiosRule]

ANATOLY, NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!! NOTHING BETTER HAPPEN TO HIM!????????????

I never thought I’d type this, but: SHUT UP, DIGGLE! Trying tell Curtis he was meant to be a spy (since the fuck when? He’s only barely capable of being a vigilante), while shitting on Oliver about what an awful vigilante he (Oliver was because he couldn’t do both-mayor and husband being the second). While he can sit all smug with his new career and family.???

Also: SHUTTHEFUCKUPCURTIS/DINAH!!!

At first I thought Talia was a hallucination.

My favorite part was Oliver grabbing Dr. Strange Wannabe/Marquis de Sade by the throat and yelling: “My name is OLIVER QUEEN!!!!!!”

This fucking show. And that is not a compliment. One more episode until Oliver’s out, right? RIIIIIGHT??????

Edited November 13, 2018 by GHScorpiosRule

[tennisgurl]

I just wish we could have cut the whole Digg/Curtis plot from the episode, which was boring and pointless and just pisses me off for reasons I've already gone into on this thread, but if that was gone, the episode would get bumped from "bleh" to "not bad". I liked Talia being the Demon, and she and Oliver teaming up lead to some good fight scenes and some nice character beats. I mean, its ridiculous that she is still pissy at Oliver for killing Ras, or that Oliver apologized, but she did keep up her side of the bargain, so I cant be too mad. The evil doctor was a decent villain, and while I am ready for Oliver to be out of jail (and watching yet another season of Oliver being miserable is super depressing) I do like the prison stuff alright, and SA is killing it. 

I also surprisingly liked the Felicity and Black Siren team up. Its sad that the one person who really seems to care about helping Oliver is the psychopathic killer from another dimension. Of course, then Dinah shows up, to be all smug and shitty for no reason. Felicity should go back to witness protection? Because that worked out so well the last time? Way to be helpful, Dinah! Oh Newbies, your uselessness never ceases to amaze. 

I didnt even notice that Rene wasn't around. And Talia being around made me wonder why we are still stuck with Derpy Dragon when we could have her around. I do also still like the Longbow people, but why all of these much cooler villains are working with this idiot is a mystery to me. In any real scenario, real villains would laugh this thug with delusions of grandeur right out of the evil conference. But if they hurt Anatoly, they are all officially on my shit list. I mean, even being dangled off a building, Anatoly is about thirty times tougher than Derp could ever hope to be, but I am very concerned. 

Have I mentioned how much Curtis bugs me, and my mind is boggled by how much time is spent on him and his angst, and his terrible jokes? Curtis is a massive failure of a character, like some kind of half assed version of all of the nerdy, adorkable sidekicks out there. He has the motor mouth and the dorky references that, say, Felicity or Cisco from Flash, or Winn from Supergirl, but lacking in their competence, warmth, or loyalty. And constantly adding more and more stupid credentials, like his billions of phds and his multiple languages (he even speaks crappy French!) or his gold medals, just makes him seem even lamer. He doesn't come off as very smart, strong, or heroic. He comes off as whiny, self involved, petty, and not that bright. I just dont know why he is still here, eating up screen time. 

[Cthulhudrew]

I did not see the Talia as Demon reveal coming, though in hindsight it seems pretty obvious. Well done show.

On the negative side, I am so, so, sooooo, sick of all of the "it's all my fault" writing. Arrow writers dive into that well on a weekly basis, and it is cropping up even more prominently in so many of the other DCU shows that I'm about ready to write off the next one that pulls it.

ETA: Okay, just got to the end. WTF is Curtis doing talking aloud to Diggle about investigating ARGUS while he and Diggle are standing inside of ARGUS HQ?!?!?!?!?!

"What is there is something ARGUS is trying to hide?" "What did you find?" "Check it out."

(The room suddenly goes silent like an E.F. Hutton commercial.) 

"Maybe we should take this somewhere private." "Good idea."

Edited November 13, 2018 by Cthulhudrew

[Chaser]

Curtis just might be the worst Arrow character ever. Worse then Malcolm, worse then Laurel, worse then Susan, worse then the DJ. I hate him so much.

I don’t like you either Dinah. 

If this is how they are using Diggle this season, then less is more.

Oh boy. I don’t hate Felicity/BS. I actually like it, it gives me Caroline and Katherine vibes. Im still annoyed that they are ignoring 95% of BS but yeah there it is. 

Talia is the Demon? Ok. Better then Malcolm. 

Stanley is bad. I can feel it. 

[statsgirl]

According to the wiki, Curtis already has a PhD in psychology.  eyeroll

The Oliver/Talia team-up was good as was the  Felicity/Laurel one even if there was too much Dinah in it.. They wasted Talia through most of S5 so I'm especially appreciative of her here. The hallway fight against the guards  was good, and Mark Bunting left on the lights!

Diggle/Curtis was terrible.  Having destroyed Felicity for two seasons, Curtis has moved on to ruining Diggle.

I'm really tired of people cluelessly telling Felicity to go back home and get over Oliver being in prison, first Diggle, now Dinah.  Buy a clue, guys;

I am so ready for Oliver to get out of that prison. The crossover is in 3 episodes, please let him be out for that although I still have my doubts).

31 minutes ago, Sunshine said:

Anybody miss Rene??

Ha ha ha ha. I didn't even notice he was missing.

31 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

The Demon thing was a road to nowhere, but I liked that Talia kept her word and that Oliver let her escape. Still not sure how she would've allowed herself to actually go to prison though.

Maybe it will be different if I see the episodes as a binge but it seems like it's a lot of by-the-numbers feel to these episodes. Limited plot; resolves; set up plot for next episode.  Beth has some good ideas but her inexperience is still showing.

[Cthulhudrew]

47 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

I would like it very much if she was next to Diaz in ever other scene from here on out and using her effect so I just kind of heard him like he was shouting at me underwater. Might make it bearable. 

He growls his lines so much, I don't really notice a difference one way or the other. 

 

Nice allusion to a possible Arrowverse Batman by Talia. I wonder if Bruce and Oliver know that they're sharing a Rogue's Gallery. Maybe the villains on this show slink back and forth between Star City and Gotham when their plots fail in one of the cities.

Edited November 13, 2018 by Cthulhudrew

[KenyaJ]

54 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

This is going to drive me nuts but Oliver wasn't sentenced to prison based on his conviction, he went in on a deal with Watson. How is that going to work out?

Yeah, you can't appeal a conviction that didn't happen. Oliver would have had to have entered a guilty plea when he made the deal to go to prison, but that plea was knowing and voluntary. The fact that bad shit was happening inside the prison doesn't negate Oliver's plea deal. I just . . . this is all so dumb. But it could be redeemed if Laurel takes this evidence to court and the judge asks her if she slept through Crim Law. That would be funny as hell.

Why do the writers think anyone would care about Curtis's trauma? I don't care about him, I don't care about ARGUS, and I'm fast approaching the point where I don't care about Diggle either. Not this Diggle, anyway. For the time being, I care about him as much as he cares about Oliver and Felicity.

I love what a badass Oliver is in prison, but I'm ready for this storyline to wrap up. It's not accomplishing anything except giving SA some great action scenes again. And I'm all for that, but he can get great action scenes on the outside, with the added bonus that his wife can kiss his wounds afterwards.

It's weird that in the same episode where Oliver reminds Talia that she worked with the man who killed his son's mom, his son's stepmom is contemplating "friend dates" with the other woman who worked with the man who killed his son's mom. It's gonna be fun explaining that to William.

[JamieLynn832002]

This episode was strange to me. I liked Oliver and Talia (minus Oliver apologizing for killing Ra's because...no) and, to my surprise and vague disturbance, I loved Felicity and Laurel but somehow the episode was very meh. Part of it was obviously Curtis and his impossible PhDs and selective/inventive memory with Diggle being reduced to being his cheerleader while someone tries to erase  Oliver but it was more than that. 

[Chaser]

I may like plot points and scenes of an episode, but without Olicity I don’t enjoy Arrow.

Edited November 13, 2018 by Chaser

[calliope1975]

5 minutes ago, Chaser said:

I may like plot points and scenes of an episode, but without Olicity I don’t enjoy Arrow.

For me as well and that's become very clear to me this season. 

[Guest]

17 minutes ago, Chaser said:

I may like plot points and scenes of an episode, but without Olicity I don’t enjoy Arrow.

Same. There always feels like something is missing. 

[quarks]

Well, I liked two-thirds of that episode, which is something, for an Arrow episode.

Good things:

1. Once again, I cannot believe that I'm typing this, but the Not-Laurel/Felicity team-up? This is great. The stuff about Not-Laurel trying to do the empathy thing, and her snarking about it later? Also great. Felicity and Not-Laurel trying for a pizza date? A little weird, but also great.  

2. The Demon turns out to be - the Demon! 

3. The stunt sequence with Oliver and Talia in the narrow hallway? Kinda fun. 

4. Talia being completely willing to leave Oliver in jail with just a backwards glance? Yep. But still having enough honor to bring Felicity the data? Also yep.

5. Oliver returning to his strategic, thinking self? More of this, Arrow.

6. Anatoly? More of him, Arrow!

Questionable things:

1. So, Adrian Chase blew up an entire island and basically only managed to kill one person? On the bright side said person was one of my least favorite characters on the show, period, but still.

2. On a related note, does anyone stay dead on this show? Anyone?

3. Talia, your father was trying to kill an entire city with....uh, whatever that was back in season three. And sure, yes, I get that he was the head of a League of Assassins so killing, kinda his thing, and that his assassins weren't very good at assassinating, so the whatever seemed like a more reliable option, but, still. Maybe be a little less ticked at Oliver about this?

4. Indeed, while on the one hand I'm kinda delighted by the brief nods to continuity here and there, on the other hand, these reminders of past moments in Arrow also remind me of Arrow's various failures - one of Arrow's all time best villains not being able to kill anyone off, Talia being kinda wasted, Ra's Al Ghul having a ridiculous KILL ALL THE CITY plan....Maybe Arrow would be better off not reminding me of these moments, is what I'm saying here. 

Bad things:

1. Echoing everyone else here: the ARGUS plot with Curtis/Diggle? Boring. Largely because it was arguably the single most paint by numbers plot we have seen on Arrow in some time, and that's saying something. What's supposed to be just one meeting turning out to be two? Check. Curtis needing to get yelled at while in the field? Check. Curtis needing a prep talk? Check. Prep talk succeeding? Check. Bad guys turn out to be setting a trap? Check. Curtis turns out to be setting a counter trap? Check. 

2. Also, what was with Curtis and Diggle having a conversation about possible Evil Argus Plots in earshot of various Argus extras? I know this show has set problems but surely the director could have shown the extras walking away before Curtis and Diggle started that conversation?

3. Also, what's with the 14 PhDs? Didn't we already have an argument that Ray's three PhDs were too much?  Now I'm supposed to believe that Curtis, who apparently is only in his 30s, managed to earn 14? While competing in the Olympics and getting married?  And yet found himself working under Felicity (and, well, Ray, I guess, at least initially?) at Palmer Tech? 

Look, I realize Arrow is not exactly the most believable show out there, and that it was followed by a show that wanted me to believe that John Constantine would be willing to pretend to be a 1990s camp counselor, but...this was a bit much, Arrow.

4. Speaking of disbelief, the sets. 

5. Speaking of the sets, I'd like to say I'm surprised that Arrow's second favorite roof showed up in Moscow the night after its third favorite roof showed up in Supergirl, but, surprised is really not the best word for my emotions here. 

6. Dinah. Felicity was nearly killed in witness protection and you're telling her to head back there? 

7. And speaking of that conversation - Dinah. You've had plenty of opportunities to tell the planet that Not-Laurel isn't Laurel. And sure, it's a questionable story, but Team Flash and Iris could back up the Earth-2 stuff. Instead, you decided to go along with Not-Laurel's impersonation thing. So, why are you loudly saying, in a police office, no less, that the DA is not really the DA, thus calling her legal authority - and her prosecutions - into question? You do realize that if word about this gets out, every criminal that Not-Laurel has prosecuted, and apparently there are some, would be released, right? And that you are saying this in a place that might have some defense attorneys lurking around?

Granted, we haven't seen any defense attorneys, but, still!

8. And speaking of that entire conversation - Dinah. You are supposedly a cop. Two women - one pretending to be the prosecutor you may need to work with to bring down bad guys - come to ask you for help, and your first response is to tell them to go away? 

For an episode apparently meant to get me on the side of Curtis and Dinah, it did not exactly work.

[apinknightmare]

2 minutes ago, quarks said:

6. Dinah. Felicity was nearly killed in witness protection and you're telling her to head back there? 

I'm so disappointed that she's still around 20 years from now and hasn't gone to go be awful and useless in some other city.

[Chaser]

Dinah was looking so satisfied with herself at the end. I can’t. 

I’ll give the writers props for Rene and BS but man they went the opposite way with Curtis, Dinah and Diggle.

23 minutes ago, quarks said:

1. Once again, I cannot believe that I'm typing this, but the Not-Laurel/Felicity team-up? This is great. The stuff about Not-Laurel trying to do the empathy thing, and her snarking about it later? Also great. Felicity and Not-Laurel trying for a pizza date? A little weird, but also great.  

When Dinah was telling Felicity not to blame herself and the camera went BS to get her reaction, I get they were going for ‘BS is feeling guilty’ but my first thought was ‘she doesn’t want to share Felicity’. And then the pizza friend date.  

How weird is it that I don’t buy BS trying to be Laurel/good for Quentin, but I kind of buy BS trying to be Felicity’s friend?

Edited November 13, 2018 by Chaser

[quarks]

6 minutes ago, Chaser said:

How weird is it that I don’t buy BS trying to be Laurel/good for Quentin, but I kind of buy BS trying to be Felicity’s friend?

I don't think it is weird? They've established that Not-Laurel is lonely and has no friends, and she's been impressed by Felicity for two episodes now. And Felicity's friends all seem to be in jail, stuck in extremely dull plot lines that leave them too bored to see how she's doing, in Star City, or Rene, so...I can see why Felicity's responding.

Creating one of the few friendships between women that we've ever seen developed on this show. Oh, there's been other friendships, but most appeared already created (Laurel/Joanna, Laurel/Thea, Moira/her lawyer) or seemingly got developed over a hiatus (Thea/Felicity, Lyla/Felicity) or were mostly on Flash or the crossover episodes. 

The exceptions - Nyssa/Laurel, Sara/Felicity and Laurel/Felicity - all include characters who are either dead or rarely on the show.

So although I'll be the first to admit that a Felicity/Not-Laurel friendship was not high on my list of Things I Wanted From Arrow This Season, I'm kinda appreciating it. 

[apinknightmare]

4 minutes ago, quarks said:

So although I'll be the first to admit that a Felicity/Not-Laurel friendship was not high on my list of Things I Wanted From Arrow This Season, I'm kinda appreciating it. 

I like it and I hate myself 

[Mellowyellow]

Interesting scene they had with Felicity feeling guilty that she should have known about what was happening to him and how she had been angry about his decision. It's going to be a world of pain when they reunite. I am really curious as to how Oliver will be in all of this. Will he stand around like a dumb pine tree? Cuz I don't think he's going to be the one with issues this time. He did what he did, they are still together but she's the one with more demons I would say.

***

I enjoy the BS/Felicity dynamic but it feels like the Ray/Felicity island of S3 a bit to me despite BS helping Felicity track Diaz/save Oliver. The show is dark and dank but then they are all sprightly when they are together with Felicity giving BS lessons in empathy and the other clumsily (and humorously) navigating her way through empathy. I mean it was one of the better parts of the episode and I enjoyed it but it feels out of place with the  mood of everything else and all the serial killing that BS did. It's Arrow though so I'm just gonna go with the flow after I make this comment.

[Cthulhudrew]

49 minutes ago, quarks said:

5. Speaking of the sets, I'd like to say I'm surprised that Arrow's second favorite roof showed up in Moscow the night after its third favorite roof showed up in Supergirl, but, surprised is really not the best word for my emotions here. 

LOL. So much truth here. One of these days I expect to see accidental cameos when one of the cast members from Supergirl or Flash didn't clear the set in time for the Arrow shoot.

Heck, with as much as they reuse sets, it almost seems cheaper for them to just film all the scenes from all the shows at the same time. Let's make it one giant crossover week after week (he said, tongue firmly in cheek).

[Chaser]

5 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

I like it and I hate myself 

I’m actually ashamed.

[catrox14]

So why didn't ARGUS use Human Target for that mission....I mean other than Curtis needed to be the most intellectual intellectual to have ALL the PHDs, and is also a polyglot.  JFC, the more they pile on with Curtis the more I hate him. I think if Echo Kellum had any charm I might be able to tolerate him but nope. 

So has Talia been posing as GA all this time or what? Or is that someone else? I was kind of confused by that

I'm so over  Oliver getting beaten down every 5 minutes.  This arc needs to end soon. 

I'm not here for the Not Laurel propping via Felicity.

Fuck this show for having Oliver apologize to Talia for killing Ra's who wanted to kill Oliver.  My hope is that Oliver said that just for Talia's sake and to get what he needed from her.  Cause otherwise....fuck that.

And speaking of fuck that shit,  ANATOLY BETTER NOT FUCKING DIE. 

[apinknightmare]

Just now, catrox14 said:

So has Talia been posing as GA all this time or what? Or is that someone else? I was kind of confused by that

She was in League gear, not dressed as the Green Arrow (although with the lighting it confused me for a sec too)

10 minutes ago, Chaser said:

I’m actually ashamed.

Let’s go sit in the corner and think about what we’ve done. 

[catrox14]

5 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

She was in League gear, not dressed as the Green Arrow (although with the lighting it confused me for a sec too)

Ah...okay. Thank you!

[statsgirl]

45 minutes ago, Chaser said:

How weird is it that I don’t buy BS trying to be Laurel/good for Quentin, but I kind of buy BS trying to be Felicity’s friend?

Quentin was trying to SAVE her and make her good. Felicity snarks about her not being the original Laurel and not even being a real lawyer.  No wonder she's more comfortable with Felicity.

[TrueMyth]

How much would I have loved one of the ARGUS background players to turn around and give a WHAA-face to Curtis's sharing of "the picture that ARGUS didn't want us to have"?

I liked "the only way out is through the morgue... no really, that's the way out, you can totally swim away through there" joke.

So, for the characters I actually care about, how much advancement did this episode bring?

- Oliver is essentially back to where he was two or three episodes ago because the Demon didn't know anything... except that she kind of had to know SOMETHING since Diaz did coordinate his attack with the shower attack on Oliver, so Talia totally did think that Oliver's wife would be killed and didn't care, AND she had some way to get information from Diaz even though level two had no visitors, so how they heck did that work? But for Oliver, he's back in his cell with a vague message about Felicity closing in on Diaz.

- Felicity is, I guess, technically closer to two of her goals: 1) They somehow have evidence against the prison that might get Oliver out in Arrowverse court? So says the not-lawyer? and 2) They have a working tracker on Silencer, a few feet from Diaz (and apparently she has street-level tracking and maps of Moscow?). I guess these are both good, but #1 seems so weak on a rational level, especially since I got the impression that seeing Talia kill the doctor right after that scene was supposed to make me think that they can't get stuff to stick without the doctor to admit to his wrong doing, and #2 ... I honestly don't understand why they haven't taken down Diaz aaaages ago, so this doesn't feel like real progress because it is more just confirmation that Diaz is still alive?

[bijoux]

Can these psychotic guards try to demonstrate some professionalism? The nasty dude was exhausting.

3 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

I am still enjoying Silencer's effects when she is on screen

Man, I was so happy to see her in Moscow, because, yay, Anatoly. But then she also had to bring Diaz along. Boo.

[insomniadreams88]

Let’s take a moment to recap everyone in relation to Felicity this season:

Oliver: in prison, but obviously thinking/caring about her constantly 

William: off in witness protection

Diggle: tells her to move on but takes time to have nice long-ish conversations with Dinah and Curtis about their feelings

Dinah: tells her to go back into witness protection where Diaz nearly killed her

Rene: at least helps out when he’s not trying to be the new GA’s Stan 

Curtis: is too busy in his nice new job with his boyfriend I like more than him and probably buying PhDs at a store (shut up, Curtis)

Watson: tells her she doesn’t deserve to be away from her family 

Laurel: is actually trying to help Felicity and wants Diaz gone, unlike the others, who probably think grocery shopping should be a higher priority than Diaz

Is it any wonder I’m actually enjoying the Felicity/Laurel scenes?

Why are Watson and Laurel the only ones who at least acknowledge what Felicity is going through? UGH 

(Can we replace Curtis, Dinah and this Diggle with Beebos? I think I’d like their scenes better.)

[quarks]

33 minutes ago, Cthulhudrew said:

LOL. So much truth here. One of these days I expect to see accidental cameos when one of the cast members from Supergirl or Flash didn't clear the set in time for the Arrow shoot.

Heck, with as much as they reuse sets, it almost seems cheaper for them to just film all the scenes from all the shows at the same time. Let's make it one giant crossover week after week (he said, tongue firmly in cheek).

A lot of the props have been making accidental cameo appearances - and they're definitely reusing props, some prop cars and some prop people - er, I mean, extras.

And to think that last season I dared to hope that the production budgets really had improved across the board and we were leaving this sort of thing behind.

[Delphi]

I'm so confused that I like Laurel lately.   She's been awesome.   I mean,  Katie is never going to be Meryl Streep,  but that's okay.  There's a reason Eliza keeps playing bad girls in leather.  

Talia is alive! Hooray.   More of her please.   In fact, we should keep her and get rid of Curtis. Because he's the fucking worst. 

[Velocity23]

So Talia totally gonna be the mother of GA

[DeadZeus]

Oliver apologising for killing a complete maniac that kept hurting everyone around him, almost killed his sister and his entire city. And he would stop at nothing…  And Oliver apologises for killing him… UGH, would have been way more impactful if Talia finally saw the monster in Ra's and didn't need that apology…

Badass action... Needs way more of that.

[thuganomics85]

Should have known that Talia was going to end up being "The Demon."  I kind of feel shameful that I didn't, honestly.  But I'm glad she survived the island and I enjoyed her and Oliver's team-up.  Well, except for the whole bit where Oliver actually apologized for killing Ra's.  Look, Ra's might have been boring as hell compared to the majority of the villains, but what he lacked in charisma, he more than made up for his attempted bodycount.  He might have been the most dangerous one of them all, and Oliver had to put him down.  And that's not even mentioning his whole sexist and homophobic treatment towards poor Nyssa.  Your father sucked, Talia.  Deal with it!

Felicity and Laurel teaming up is actually one of the best parts about this season, surprisingly.  But it is a sad state of affairs that The Artist Formally Known as Black Siren has somehow become the most supportive person in Felicity's life right now (followed by Rene.)  You have so failed Felicity and Oliver, Diggle.

Speaking of which: wow, the whole plot with Diggle and Curtis was a bust.  First, there's Curtis who really is the worst character on this show.  But Diggle himself has become so dull now and doesn't feel like the same character anymore.  What is going on, here?

So, Diaz plan knows involves getting his hand on Anatoly.  Don't you dare do anything to him, show!  Anatoly is easily one of best shades of grey characters you've got! 

[tv echo]

Clearly, this episode was super popular - judging by the ton of comments in this thread! Seriously, though, I just can't take the stupidity...

Oliver apologizes to Talia for killing her father, Ra's al Ghul, because he wasn't considerate enough to think about Ra's family and thought only about what Ra's planned to do to Star City. Ugh!! Curtis blames being a vigilante for costing him his marriage when he was the one who chose being Mr. Terrific over being with his husband. WTF?!

The Felicity-E2 Laurel dynamic works to a certain extent. But it requires that the viewer have selective amnesia. For example, there's this piece of dialogue:

Dinah: "Hi. Wow. Okay. Since when are you two friends?"
Felicity: "Well, we decided to start a support group for women who've been attacked by Diaz."
E2 Laurel: "Or his assassins. Do you care to join?"

Uh, Black Siren, you were one of his assassins. Remember that poor girl in the parking garage who you attacked and murdered?

I'm tired of Felicity having to run around and basically beg all these people (so-called friends and enemies) for help in helping Oliver. And it's a good thing that Felicity didn't wait around for Rene to get back to her about the Silencer. She'd still be waiting.  #TeamFelicity

I did like the way that Oliver & Talia fought their way through the prison guards (the hallway fight). I also liked the way Oliver fought the guards by himself, in order to let Talia get away.

Edited November 13, 2018 by tv echo

[apinknightmare]

6 minutes ago, tv echo said:

Uh, Black Siren, you were one of his assassins.

Isn't that why she added that part? Because Laurel and Felicity were attacked by Diaz himself, but Dinah and Laurel had their beef last season (I don't recall Diaz attacking her). 

[tv echo]

I thought that E2 Laurel was referring to the Silencer when she said "Or his assassins."

Edited November 13, 2018 by tv echo

[apinknightmare]

10 minutes ago, tv echo said:

I thought that E2 Laurel was referring to the Silencer when she said "Or his assassins."

 

Oh, probably. I forgot the Longbow Hunters existed.

Edited November 13, 2018 by apinknightmare