S01.E07: I Dare You

[Guest]

4 hours ago, LucyEth said:

Obviously Eddie got the friends and Katherine is the outsider, which she seems to have been all along.  Where does the character fit in now?  Maybe Eddie should have been single, since his real story is that he had an affair with his dear friend's wife.  HIs whole storyline really revolves around Delilah, not Katherine IMO.

Its even more puzzling that they bothered to recast the role for the pilot considering that Katherine could be completely excised from the show and it wouldn't change a thing.

I think Eddie was married just so Delilah wasn't the most guilty person in that scenario.  This way she isn't the only one that cheated and she has a slight edge over Eddie because there is no pretense that she ever thought of Katherine as a friend while supposedly Jon and Eddie were friends.

As it is, I think Katherine is around just so they have someone competent to go to when whatever financial and legal mess Jon left behind comes to light.

[bybrandy]

3 hours ago, Gothish520 said:

Yes but is that what we want to watch? Someone poring over legal documents, making phone calls and whatnot? TV shows can't and don't show every minute of every character's day. When the paperwork is pertinent to the plot, I'm sure we will hear all about it. In the meantime, I'm not really sweating over how the bills are getting paid.

I don't care much about the business but given the secret mailbox and all the final notice mail that Jon's assistant found a couple of episodes ago, I very much am worried how the bills are getting paid and am ready for Delilah's credit cards to be declined already to get that plot point out  of the way.

[bybrandy]

29 minutes ago, ParadoxLost said:

As it is, I think Katherine is around just so they have someone competent to go to when whatever financial and legal mess Jon left behind comes to light.

Because she Theo, Danny and the dog are the only people I really like on this show?   

[ElectricBoogaloo]

6 hours ago, nexxie said:

I guess activated charcoal capsules just aren’t as dramatic as a cupful!

I know, right! I was thinking about the bottle of charcoal pills I have in my medicine cabinet and wondering how many of those Rome would have had to take to be the equivalent of that cup of lava he was trying to choke down.

[HazelEyes4325]

21 hours ago, doodlebug said:

Is it just me or is the actress playing Delilah actually getting worse as we go along?  I’ve come to despise her and I don’t think that’s what TPTB are going for here.

 

It's not just you.  For me, part of it is because her character is already unlikable, yet we are continually hit over the head with her.  It's like the show is screaming YOU MUST LOVE HER.  And I don't. I really, really don't.

Also, Szostak's acting is not doing her character any favors.  None of her deliveries really make a hell of a lot of sense on an emotional (and/or sometimes linguistic) level.  I get that a number, probably the majority, of characters are badly written.  I mentioned Eddie before.  The difference is that David Giuntoli's performance lifts the character out of the writing.  Szostak's seems to drown in the bad writing.

Edited November 9, 2018 by HazelEyes4325

[auntiemel]

3 hours ago, bybrandy said:

Because she Theo, Danny and the dog are the only people I really like on this show?   

I've also very quickly become fond of Katherine's assistant.

It's strange for me to think that I really don't like any of the characters on this show. And I really don't. I just have so much residual fondness for the actors from other shows they've been in that I keep slogging along. It's getting pretty depressing, though. Like This Is Us, it's starting to get so bogged down in unrelenting sadness and heaviness that the dramatic moments aren't even affecting me anymore, because unlike a show like Friday Night Lights where a truly heart-wrenching moment would grab you because there was a half a season of build-up leading to a climactic moment, these shows just skip from one Capital-P Poignant moment to the next and it all begins to blend.

Sidenote, my sister told me that my brother-in-law's tongue-in-cheek nickname for this show is "That Was Jon."

[ElectricBoogaloo]

1 hour ago, auntiemel said:

I've also very quickly become fond of Katherine's assistant.

I like him too. He can stay!

Quote

Sidenote, my sister told me that my brother-in-law's tongue-in-cheek nickname for this show is "That Was Jon."

HA!

[possibilities]

The actor who plays Delilah's son is great.

Edited November 9, 2018 by possibilities

[debraran]

I wondered if the show wanted a more grownup "This is Us" in the beginning. It was so good but now, all the story lines and heavy angst make it less like  This is Us in the beginning and more like it now.  (which I still mourn) We have two friends who have cancer, Gary and Maggie, depression, Jon was and Rome, unexpected pregnancy in a 43 year old, adultery. I hang in for the laughs, the kids, one liners, please bring back the drama of unexpected death and how it effects the family. I swear at times, I watch Delilah and Eddie and pizza nights and forget Jon was in the pilot! I really thought he would have more air time in flashbacks and how they met, etc.

It's getting cluttered and not what I thought they were going for. I still hope they find it, some good acting there and although I don't love them all, can be a stellar cast.

Edited November 9, 2018 by debraran

[kazza]

18 hours ago, Dani said:

He says he was going “after school”. Which reminds me that Delilah really sucks has a mom. Her preteen tells her that he is meeting someone at the arcade after school and that he has a ride and she asks no questions. He is clearly hiding something and she just lets it go without even trying to find out what is going on. 

 

I thought the same thing. Your kid tells you borderline evasively he's got his after school activity to an arcade sorted out, and you're just ok with it? Gary has been more of a parent to Danny than Delilah has. Makes you wonder if Jon was doing all the parenting, too, and perhaps what else he was running in the house. It'll be interesting to see her reaction to whatever Jon was intending with the insurance policy. 

12 hours ago, Gothish520 said:

No you're not! I still wake up to the clock radio I've had for at least 20 years. Set to a station that usually wakes me up to some awesome 80's ditty. Love it.

Loved that Gary's was an old flip number clock, too. (And I also wake up to an 80s station. The day is off to a good start when Like A Prayer is the first thing I hear.)

I fell asleep 2/3rds of the way through the episode. Not sure it was because of the show, as I'd been up late for a few days in a row, but the episode just didn't seem satisfying. It felt like one of those dinners you have occasionally that's made up of all the leftovers in the fridge. The plate has variety, not a whole lot of any one thing, is still somewhat good, but just not great. From the portions I watched, the subplots were disjointed, and nothing got resolved. I'll have to finish the episode and see if my impression changes. Other thoughts:

- I didn't get the whole thing with Katherine coming into the ramen place with her coworker and seeing Gary. Are we implying that Katherine is an Eligible Single Woman Who Has Moved On From Her Cheating Husband? I wouldn't mind seeing that show, by the way. Spin her off. Heck, make it an Ally McBeal reboot. They're in Boston.  

- Not sure why Eddie was so upset about someone wanting to sing his song. I get that he wrote it, but he still gets songwriting credit, I assume. If he wants to record it later, he can. At this point, he's teaching guitar to kids in the suburbs. I would think any type of interest in his musician skills would be welcome.

- What was the point of the lemonade stand? And when he got the phone call from Maggie about Rome, did he clean it up all up and take it down? 

- Thanks for the "I'm Still Standing" earworm, show.

- While David Giuntoli and Romany Malco bring the pretty, James Roday oozes charisma. I enjoy all the scenes he's in. For those who have watched him in other shows, is this just him or is this how Gary's written?

Edited November 9, 2018 by kazza
typo

[ElectricBoogaloo]

1 hour ago, kazza said:

James Roday oozes charisma. I enjoy all the scenes he's in. For those who have watched him in other shows, is this just him or is this how Gary's written?

I found him just as charming on Psych!

[Clanstarling]

2 hours ago, kazza said:

Loved that Gary's was an old flip number clock, too. (And I also wake up to an 80s station. The day is off to a good start when Like A Prayer is the first thing I hear.)

Eh, I wake up to Paul Simon on my cell phone, so it always starts my day off well. I like controlling what I hear in the morning. I'm not a particularly nostalgic person when it comes to tech. Songs, you bet. My phone is full of 80's music.

[Lady Calypso]

3 hours ago, kazza said:

- I didn't get the whole thing with Katherine coming into the ramen place with her coworker and seeing Gary. Are we implying that Katherine is an Eligible Single Woman Who Has Moved On From Her Cheating Husband? I wouldn't mind seeing that show, by the way. Spin her off. Heck, make it an Ally McBeal reboot. They're in Boston.  

I think, when Katherine saw Gary, her first thought was that he'd judge her for being with another guy, perhaps jumping to a wrong conclusion. Since Gary's been very judgey of her, I think she was afraid of the story he'd tell Eddie. Not that she has ANYTHING to feel guilty for. I don't think she even likes her coworker yet and was more giving it a chance. But then Gary surprised her with being supportive...although that was only because of his fight with Maggie. If he was happily sitting with Maggie when she walked in, the reaction, I imagine, would be different.

3 hours ago, kazza said:

- Not sure why Eddie was so upset about someone wanting to sing his song. I get that he wrote it, but he still gets songwriting credit, I assume. If he wants to record it later, he can. At this point, he's teaching guitar to kids in the suburbs. I would think any type of interest in his musician skills would be welcome.

It's actually very simple: he's a manchild who wants to be the star. He doesn't want some younger kid singing HIS song because then HE isn't in the spotlight or really gets the credit. He's looking for affirmation and maybe the fame that he used to have.

[HazelEyes4325]

8 hours ago, auntiemel said:

Sidenote, my sister told me that my brother-in-law's tongue-in-cheek nickname for this show is "That Was Jon."

 

That makes...so much sense.

It's kind of like DJ Nash saw This is Us and thought he could do a show like that, but BETTER!  He then figured out what was wrong with TIU and decided to do just the opposite.  Too many flashbacks?  How about not enough!  The plot is in a standstill?  Let's rush through everything as fast as we can?  Unrealistic that Toby would trash a restaurant in his song and dance number?  Let's just give Gary a mike and let him go for it!  (Okay, I'll admit that last one actually was better).

Obviously, I don't know if this is what happened.  It just sort of seems that way to me.  I know some people think this show is just like TIU and others think it is nothing like TIU (I happen to be in the former camp), but I think it is undeniable that this show is at least conscious of TIU, even if it seems to be "borrowing" more things from Friends lately.  And all Nash is doing is making problems for himself in doing this.

 

7 hours ago, possibilities said:

The actor who plays Delilah's son is great.

I actually didn't like him at all until the end of this episode.  I found his acting stilted and the character "precious."  But, in the second half of that last scene with Delilah, he seemed much more natural.  Honestly, I think he's being directed to play his character in a certain way and it isn't working, but I think he is probably a better actor than that.

3 hours ago, kazza said:

I thought the same thing. Your kid tells you borderline evasively he's got his after school activity to an arcade sorted out, and you're just ok with it? Gary has been more of a parent to Danny than Delilah has. Makes you wonder if Jon was doing all the parenting, too, and perhaps what else he was running in the house. It'll be interesting to see her reaction to whatever Jon was intending with the insurance policy. 

1

Honestly, I'm not sure what the fuck Delilah does with her life (well, I do know...Eddie).  She claims to have been living a separate life from her husband, she is a completely absent parent, she's supposedly "decorating" Regina's restaurant, but we've only seen Regina make the design decisions and, well, do anything regarding the restaurant.

Her sort of lackadaisical response to Danny's "playdate" just baffled me.  He's obviously secretive, he only tells you that he has a "ride" and, while I get that Gary is a good person to give him a ride, don't you think she should actually know that it is Gary?  And it looks like the kids were leaving their swanky suburb for downtown Boston.  No, no, no.  None of that made any sense.  

I mean, I guess I can see how Jon would be "ignoring" her--he had a business to run AND he had to be the only involved parent.

[Madding crowd]

I think the guy who wanted Eddie’s song wanted to buy the rights to the song and Eddie would not be able to sing it anymore. It was probably the right choice to sell but people feel strongly about the creative process and Eddie still wants to perform himself. 

I like but don’t love the show. I think it is natural to ask a loved one or close friend to fight for their life but in this case Gary hasn’t known  her long enough. I feel like the character of Maggie is kind of shoehorned in to everyone ‘s life and it doesn’t really work for me.

Deliah’s son comes across as much younger than he is supposed to be, so it seems odd to me for him to be dating or making his own transportation plans without his mom knowing.

Edited November 9, 2018 by Madding crowd

[doodlebug]

4 hours ago, kazza said:

 

- While David Giuntoli and Romany Malco bring the pretty, James Roday oozes charisma. I enjoy all the scenes he's in. For those who have watched him in other shows, is this just him or is this how Gary's written?

James Roday has a lot of charisma and he tends to bring out the best in his scene partners, too.  In Psych, he played the lead character who was often glib and immature and kinda selfish.  Still, he was fun to watch and it was easy to forgive his character's flaws due to his overall charm and the fact that his interactions with the other characters were so entertaining.

[Lady Calypso]

9 minutes ago, Madding crowd said:

Deliah’s son comes across as much younger than he is supposed to be, so it seems odd to me for him to be dating or making his own transportation plans without his mom knowing.

Yeah, he didn't seem to be 12, but apparently he is. Although, his transportation plans did include Gary, and Gary seemed to be his supervising adult (he took him to the arcade, waited, and then likely took him home) so Danny wasn't going out on his own. The dating part wasn't even clear to Danny. For the other boy, it could have just been friends hanging out at the arcade. 

[smartymarty]

I didn't get acting in the ultrasound scene. Delilah's had two children already and Eddie one, and yet they were all Miracle of Life about seeing the fetus (and why wasn't the sound on in the first place?).

However, I do differ with many about "the lie." Of course, I assume that they won't lie about the child's parentage forever, just now when emotions are raw. Yeah, these characters suck so that might not actually happen, but I'll pretend otherwise.

Even were it not a business day, I can't imagine all my friends rushing to the hospital unless it was really, really serious. Most would say "keep me up to date." Maybe Regina told everyone Rode was dying? Which was ridiculous too.

 

And I'm not sympathetic to her little tantrum about "everyone else knew before me." Grow up. People -- even spouses -- sometimes confide in people not in order of closeness to them. You know, like to Maggie who actually specializes in depression. (Maggie didn't have to say to Regina "we've been talking." Better, and fairly accurately, she could have said "Rode came to me but I felt uncomfortable with that so referred him to another doctor.")  Sometimes the first person to know something about you is the stranger sitting next to you on the plane! How about "I'm so sorry you didn't feel you could come to me. Let's work together to get this treated. I'm here for you."

[Lady Calypso]

14 minutes ago, smartymarty said:

However, I do differ with many about "the lie." Of course, I assume that they won't lie about the child's parentage forever, just now when emotions are raw. Yeah, these characters suck so that might not actually happen, but I'll pretend otherwise.

Yeah, because the feelings aren't going to be raw when these two decide to come clean. Oh yeah, everyone will be TOTALLY happy about it, ESPECIALLY Delilah's two kids.

If this is the thought process of these two, then maybe they belong together in their stupidity and selfishness. Their friends already know about the affair and got over it in a week so I feel like them keeping this secret isn't for anyone but protecting themselves. How long would they wait, anyway? When the baby's born? A year after? Two years? We know the paternity is being exposed well before the baby's born. We know Eddie won't be fine with the baby being Jon's for very long. 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, smartymarty said:

 

However, I do differ with many about "the lie." Of course, I assume that they won't lie about the child's parentage forever, just now when emotions are raw. Yeah, these characters suck so that might not actually happen, but I'll pretend otherwise.

I don’t think Eddie and Delilah are ever planning on telling the truth. They specifically mentioned keeping it from their kids. There is never going to be a good time to tell Sophie and Danny that their mom was cheating on their dead dad. They’d have to wait years for the grief to fade and that would just make it worse for Theo and the baby. 

[Clanstarling]

2 hours ago, Madding crowd said:

I think the guy who wanted Eddie’s song wanted to buy the rights to the song and Eddie would not be able to sing it anymore. It was probably the right choice to sell but people feel strongly about the creative process and Eddie still wants to perform himself.

This is why agents exist. To hash out a deal that works for everyone. As a writer, I would never give up my rights to my work - though I would license it.

1 hour ago, smartymarty said:

I didn't get acting in the ultrasound scene. Delilah's had two children already and Eddie one, and yet they were all Miracle of Life about seeing the fetus (and why wasn't the sound on in the first place?).

Every new life is a little miracle - or at least that was my experience. It was a new joy each time (though I put the brakes on at two). And since this is their first mutual child, I bought the emotion, if not the circumstance. Eddie clearly loves his son, there's no reason to believe he wouldn't love this child.

[doodlebug]

24 minutes ago, Clanstarling said:

This is why agents exist. To hash out a deal that works for everyone. As a writer, I would never give up my rights to my work - though I would license it.

Every new life is a little miracle - or at least that was my experience. It was a new joy each time (though I put the brakes on at two). And since this is their first mutual child, I bought the emotion, if not the circumstance. Eddie clearly loves his son, there's no reason to believe he wouldn't love this child.

Of course, you would.  I don't think it was that the guy wanted exclusive rights to the song as someone else suggested.  There's no major demand for Eddie's original songs, it's not like he's had a huge string of hits he's written. That only happens with the upper echelon of performers and songwriters.  I think he just liked the song and wants to perform it as part of his act, maybe record it and Eddie is miffed at the idea that some much younger, hipper kid could do better with one of his songs than he could.  Presumably, since he has apparently been writing all along even if he hasn't done much performing in several years, Eddie has a relationship with an agent who would handle the details if the other guy ends up using Eddie's song.  And, considering Eddie's concerns about hanging out in bars and his anxiety about performing, songwriting could be a very good way to keep his music career viable while avoiding fraught situations.

[Gothish520]

4 hours ago, HazelEyes4325 said:

That makes...so much sense.

It's kind of like DJ Nash saw This is Us and thought he could do a show like that, but BETTER!  He then figured out what was wrong with TIU and decided to do just the opposite.  Too many flashbacks?  How about not enough!  The plot is in a standstill?  Let's rush through everything as fast as we can?  Unrealistic that Toby would trash a restaurant in his song and dance number?  Let's just give Gary a mike and let him go for it!  (Okay, I'll admit that last one actually was better).

Obviously, I don't know if this is what happened.  It just sort of seems that way to me.  I know some people think this show is just like TIU and others think it is nothing like TIU (I happen to be in the former camp), but I think it is undeniable that this show is at least conscious of TIU, even if it seems to be "borrowing" more things from Friends lately.  And all Nash is doing is making problems for himself in doing this.

 

I actually didn't like him at all until the end of this episode.  I found his acting stilted and the character "precious."  But, in the second half of that last scene with Delilah, he seemed much more natural.  Honestly, I think he's being directed to play his character in a certain way and it isn't working, but I think he is probably a better actor than that.

Honestly, I'm not sure what the fuck Delilah does with her life (well, I do know...Eddie).  She claims to have been living a separate life from her husband, she is a completely absent parent, she's supposedly "decorating" Regina's restaurant, but we've only seen Regina make the design decisions and, well, do anything regarding the restaurant.

Her sort of lackadaisical response to Danny's "playdate" just baffled me.  He's obviously secretive, he only tells you that he has a "ride" and, while I get that Gary is a good person to give him a ride, don't you think she should actually know that it is Gary?  And it looks like the kids were leaving their swanky suburb for downtown Boston.  No, no, no.  None of that made any sense.  

I mean, I guess I can see how Jon would be "ignoring" her--he had a business to run AND he had to be the only involved parent.

I know exactly what you mean about that last scene - there was something really cute and funny about the way he played it, and I do like the easy rapport Delilah has with her kids, even when they are being, well, kids - as in bratty, sullen, selfish, etc. That applies more to Sophie as she's older, but I like that they can reach an understanding most times.

I seriously doubt that Jon was in any way more "there" for the kids than Delilah - in fact, it's probably quite the opposite. But there are parents who have a more laissez faire attitude when it comes to parenting. Not necessarily letting them do whatever they want, more like trusting them and only getting up in their business when they sense something is not right.

Personally, I could never be a parent, because I would be nosy as hell and would question every move they made. I'd search their room, read their diary - oh yeah I'd be terrible.

Edited November 9, 2018 by Gothish520

[Gothish520]

13 minutes ago, doodlebug said:

Of course, you would.  I don't think it was that the guy wanted exclusive rights to the song as someone else suggested.  There's no major demand for Eddie's original songs, it's not like he's had a huge string of hits he's written. That only happens with the upper echelon of performers and songwriters.  I think he just liked the song and wants to perform it as part of his act, maybe record it and Eddie is miffed at the idea that some much younger, hipper kid could do better with one of his songs than he could.  Presumably, since he has apparently been writing all along even if he hasn't done much performing in several years, Eddie has a relationship with an agent who would handle the details if the other guy ends up using Eddie's song.  And, considering Eddie's concerns about hanging out in bars and his anxiety about performing, songwriting could be a very good way to keep his music career viable while avoiding fraught situations.

If that guy represents what's hip, I'm grateful to be square. He kind of creeped me out.

That being said, I don't think he meant any disrespect asking to buy the song. He liked it and wanted to get the rights. Nothing wrong with that, but also nothing wrong with Eddie balking at first, and then realizing that he needed to do the more practical-sounding thing and make some bank.

[HazelEyes4325]

47 minutes ago, Dani said:

I don’t think Eddie and Delilah are ever planning on telling the truth. They specifically mentioned keeping it from their kids. There is never going to be a good time to tell Sophie and Danny that their mom was cheating on their dead dad. They’d have to wait years for the grief to fade and that would just make it worse for Theo and the baby. 

I don't think Eddie can think about anything that might happen more than 2 minutes in the future, so I can see him believing that he can keep the secret even though it is perfectly clear that he can't.

I actually think Delilah can keep the secret (which will make it SO MUCH BETTER when it finally comes out).  But Delilah seems to think that "saying it's Jon's" means that Eddie will excuse himself from the picture and that is CLEARLY not going to happen.  There were a few times in this episode where Delilah kept pushing Eddie away (and he was completely clueless).  I think Delilah wants a baby...and she doesn't care who the father is.

14 minutes ago, Gothish520 said:

I seriously doubt that Jon was in any way more "there" for the kids than Delilah - in fact, it's probably quite the opposite. But there are parents who have a more laissez faire attitude when it comes to parenting. Not necessarily letting them do whatever they want, more like trusting them and only getting up in their business when they sense something is not right.

1

But the show has shown us differently. We've seen Jon be very involved in Sophie's life and Danny talks about him in a way that sounds like he was the parent who was always "there."  Of course, the show has also shown us that Jon was an attentive husband and then they, or at least Delilah, keeps trying to push the narrative that he wasn't.

[KnoxForPres]

3 hours ago, doodlebug said:

James Roday has a lot of charisma and he tends to bring out the best in his scene partners, too.  In Psych, he played the lead character who was often glib and immature and kinda selfish.  Still, he was fun to watch and it was easy to forgive his character's flaws due to his overall charm and the fact that his interactions with the other characters were so entertaining.

It’s interesting how much I (respectfully) disagree with you guys. I can’t stand his “cute” quip throwing persona. He makes me feel tired and like Id want to get away if I knew him in real life. 

And I actually thought about that more than I should and realized I loved Christian Troy (Julian McMahon) in Nip/Tuck. He was an asshole on near all accounts.  And I couldn’t get enough of him.

But the difference is I buy Christian.  With Gary he’s developed a persona where he says (not) witty isms with heaps of sarcasm topped off with an “aw shucks”  face and ballon of false hope in your bedroom. And it all feels forced and fake.  (To me)

There just isn’t much I can add to this episode.  It was very boring and everything I’ve thought has already been said very well.  Especially the what the fuck at Rome in immense pain and the MDs and realism taking a back seat to “DRAMA”

Edited November 9, 2018 by KnoxForPres

[HazelEyes4325]

13 minutes ago, HazelEyes4325 said:

But the show has shown us differently. We've seen Jon be very involved in Sophie's life and Danny talks about him in a way that sounds like he was the parent who was always "there."  Of course, the show has also shown us that Jon was an attentive husband and then they, or at least Delilah, keeps trying to push the narrative that he wasn't.

 

Yeah, quoting myself again...

Anyway, thinking about this made me think about another moment in this episode that I thought was interesting.  Actually, it was 2 moments.  The first was when Theo was on Facetime with Katherine, showing her his lego whatever and she was completely engaged in it.  In the background, we see Eddie sort of wandering around--which is fine.  I mean, he was sleeping with someone other than his wife so no matter how amicable they are trying to make their breakup for Theo's sake, I can't see them being especially chatty.  But then Theo says something about how "Dad was no help at all, as usual," which was strange, considering Eddie was (supposedly) the primary caregiver while Katherine was (supposedly) working all the time and never seeing her family.  A little later, Eddie makes a very nice dinner and Theo is completely surprised by this...which was strange for the same reason.

So, here we have a situation where it might be that the narrative the show has told us is being shown by the show to not be accurate.  It could very well be that this is shitty writing.  In fact, if I were a betting girl, that's where I'd put my money.  But, there is also a possibility that it is intentional...that Nash is slowly trying to chip away at misconceptions that he created for this exact purpose.

Again, I don't think that is what is going on--nothing we've seen has indicated that Nash is even close to being that sophisticated a writer, but it is an interesting possibility...and it would actually make sense in terms of Delilah...

[Madding crowd]

2 hours ago, doodlebug said:

Of course, you would.  I don't think it was that the guy wanted exclusive rights to the song as someone else suggested.  There's no major demand for Eddie's original songs, it's not like he's had a huge string of hits he's written. That only happens with the upper echelon of performers and songwriters.  I think he just liked the song and wants to perform it as part of his act, maybe record it and Eddie is miffed at the idea that some much younger, hipper kid could do better with one of his songs than he could.  Presumably, since he has apparently been writing all along even if he hasn't done much performing in several years, Eddie has a relationship with an agent who would handle the details if the other guy ends up using Eddie's song.  And, considering Eddie's concerns about hanging out in bars and his anxiety about performing, songwriting could be a very good way to keep his music career viable while avoiding fraught situations.

This was a storyline on several episodes of the show Nashville. People buy the rights to songs from unknowns all the time. People who are even moderately successful want to be known for singing a song and sell downloads and want the song to be exclusive to them at least initially. I’m a writer too and wouldn’t let anyone buy my work but it’s a whole different medium.

[doodlebug]

4 minutes ago, Madding crowd said:

This was a storyline on several episodes of the show Nashville. People buy the rights to songs from unknowns all the time. People who are even moderately successful want to be known for singing a song and sell downloads and want the song to be exclusive to them at least initially. I’m a writer too and wouldn’t let anyone buy my work but it’s a whole different medium.

Sounds like you know a lot more about this that I do.  I have heard that Beyoncé and other biggies do demand songwriting credits on everything they record to maximize their profits.  From what I understand, she might add an 'Oh baby' or some other simple phrase to an already-written song and get equal credit with the person who did all the rest of the words and lyrics.  Nice work if you can get it. 

[Clanstarling]

2 hours ago, doodlebug said:

Of course, you would.  I don't think it was that the guy wanted exclusive rights to the song as someone else suggested.  There's no major demand for Eddie's original songs, it's not like he's had a huge string of hits he's written. That only happens with the upper echelon of performers and songwriters.  I think he just liked the song and wants to perform it as part of his act, maybe record it and Eddie is miffed at the idea that some much younger, hipper kid could do better with one of his songs than he could.  Presumably, since he has apparently been writing all along even if he hasn't done much performing in several years, Eddie has a relationship with an agent who would handle the details if the other guy ends up using Eddie's song.  And, considering Eddie's concerns about hanging out in bars and his anxiety about performing, songwriting could be a very good way to keep his music career viable while avoiding fraught situations.

That was my take, (that Eddie just wanted to do the song himself), but I started doubting myself because sometimes I don't pay close attention and others seemed to think it was and exclusive deal.

2 hours ago, Gothish520 said:

Personally, I could never be a parent, because I would be nosy as hell and would question every move they made. I'd search their room, read their diary - oh yeah I'd be terrible.

Or maybe, for some kids, that would be awesome parenting. (Not trying to convince you to be a parent - only people who want to do that should, imo).

[Madding crowd]

From what a couple of people tell me there are all kinds of different deals people make regarding music rights. In any case, Eddie was probably hoping to sing with the guy or open for him not be an obscure song writer.

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, Madding crowd said:

From what a couple of people tell me there are all kinds of different deals people make regarding music rights. In any case, Eddie was probably hoping to sing with the guy or open for him not be an obscure song writer.

That’s the way I saw it. Eddie was hoping he can relive is rockstar days so the manager being more interested in his song than in him hurt is ego. 

Edited November 9, 2018 by Guest

[Gothish520]

2 hours ago, HazelEyes4325 said:

Yeah, quoting myself again...

Anyway, thinking about this made me think about another moment in this episode that I thought was interesting.  Actually, it was 2 moments.  The first was when Theo was on Facetime with Katherine, showing her his lego whatever and she was completely engaged in it.  In the background, we see Eddie sort of wandering around--which is fine.  I mean, he was sleeping with someone other than his wife so no matter how amicable they are trying to make their breakup for Theo's sake, I can't see them being especially chatty.  But then Theo says something about how "Dad was no help at all, as usual," which was strange, considering Eddie was (supposedly) the primary caregiver while Katherine was (supposedly) working all the time and never seeing her family.  A little later, Eddie makes a very nice dinner and Theo is completely surprised by this...which was strange for the same reason.

Theo didn't say as usual, he used a different word/phrase. I don't recall what it was, but I remember thinking that it was an interesting word for a young kid to use. Unfotunately I'm not home right now so I can't look it up, but I think he might have been bragging to his mom that he did it all himself without Dad's help. The scene didn't read to me like Dad never helps him, just that he didn't help him this time.

I also don't recall Theo being surprised that Eddie made a nice meal, I recall him saying that the meal was all right. But again, I have to look that scene up to be sure, LOL.

[Guest]

13 minutes ago, Gothish520 said:

Theo didn't say as usual, he used a different word/phrase. I don't recall what it was, but I remember thinking that it was an interesting word for a young kid to use. Unfotunately I'm not home right now so I can't look it up, but I think he might have been bragging to his mom that he did it all himself without Dad's help. The scene didn't read to me like Dad never helps him, just that he didn't help him this time.

I also don't recall Theo being surprised that Eddie made a nice meal, I recall him saying that the meal was all right. But again, I have to look that scene up to be sure, LOL.

It was “ one iota”. Theo was very proud that he did it alone. It was a cute scene so the phrase stood out to me, too. 

The dinner scene was implying that Eddie isn’t a very good cook rather than that he never cooks. 

I think Theo might be my favorite character. 

Edited November 9, 2018 by Guest

[Gothish520]

1 hour ago, Dani said:

It was “ one iota”. Theo was very proud that he did it alone. It was a cute scene so the phrase stood out to me, too. 

The dinner scene was implying that Eddie isn’t a very good cook rather than that he never cooks. 

I think Theo might be my favorite character. 

Thank you, yes that was it, one iota, Lol!

Theo's adorable!

[HazelEyes4325]

2 hours ago, Dani said:

It was “ one iota”. Theo was very proud that he did it alone. It was a cute scene so the phrase stood out to me, too. 

The dinner scene was implying that Eddie isn’t a very good cook rather than that he never cooks. 

I think Theo might be my favorite character. 

Thanks for the correction!  As I said, I thought the line was something like that, but I didn't have the interest to go back and watch the episode to find out.  However, both bits still stand out to me as being contradictory to what we've been told.  And I will freely admit there may be nothing more to that than bad writing. 

[ams1001]

11 hours ago, Clanstarling said:

Eh, I wake up to Paul Simon on my cell phone, so it always starts my day off well. I like controlling what I hear in the morning. I'm not a particularly nostalgic person when it comes to tech. Songs, you bet. My phone is full of 80's music.

I use my tablet to tell me when to get up; it plays the Peanuts theme song on weekdays and a dubstep version of Fur Elise on weekends. (I also have a clock radio which is on a local rock station, so it could be anything from The Who to Pearl Jam to Godsmack.)

[dcubed]

9 hours ago, HazelEyes4325 said:

But the show has shown us differently. We've seen Jon be very involved in Sophie's life and Danny talks about him in a way that sounds like he was the parent who was always "there."  Of course, the show has also shown us that Jon was an attentive husband and then they, or at least Delilah, keeps trying to push the narrative that he wasn't.

I don’t see what you see, particularly the attentive husband part.  Saying that everything he does he does for his family doesn’t mean he was there and present.  Seems to me he was there more for his friends than his wife, which she stated as well.  I suspect we’ll see more layers of the onion and he won’t come off quite so well.  To me, the little bit they’ve shown of Jon is  that he was fake...overly positive, got it all together, beloved.  His snippy attitude toward his father in law, who was clearly confused, was unattractive to me.  

[possibilities]

I really thought Rome had appendicitis. Why didn't they even check him for anything in the ER? They just left him writhing in pain, waiting to see if the charcoal would help? That seemed really negligent, to me.

Edited November 10, 2018 by possibilities

[Gothish520]

6 hours ago, HazelEyes4325 said:

Thanks for the correction!  As I said, I thought the line was something like that, but I didn't have the interest to go back and watch the episode to find out.  However, both bits still stand out to me as being contradictory to what we've been told.  And I will freely admit there may be nothing more to that than bad writing. 

I don't see how that's contradictory. He said that Dad didn't help him this time, not that he never helps him. I also don't see how it's contradictory that Theo said the meal was just alright. Nowhere was it implied that Eddie never cooks for him. 

[Gothish520]

1 hour ago, possibilities said:

I really thought Rome had appendicitis. Why didn't they even check him for anything in the ER? They just left him writhing in pain, waiting to see if the charcoal would help? That seemed really negligent, to me.

Emergency rooms can be rough. Unless you are bleeding profusely or appear to be having a heart attack, you can wait forever for tests to be run. Gina mentioning his suicide attempt put them on the overdose possibility, and she had to give the go-ahead for treatment. I am surprised they didn't give him something for the pain though.

[sigmaforce86]

On 11/8/2018 at 3:23 AM, doodlebug said:

The hospital stuff was just as ridiculous. Apparently, anyone who has ever contemplated suicide is incapable of making medical decisions forever? Rome was not unconscious, he clearly wasn’t drowsy or disoriented, he was asking for help and told them flat out that he hadn’t taken anything.  So, move on, people.  His behavior and symptoms were completely wrong for an OD.  If this is the quality of medical care available in Boston, it’s no wonder Regina asks non-physicians for medical advice.  A quick dip of his urine would’ve shown it to be bloody and the diagnosis obvious. That could’ve been accomplished within 2 minutes of him hitting the door.  Also, activated charcoal is not the universal antidote to all poisons and a guy with severe abdominal pain who might need surgery shouldn’t be drinking anything, let alone that.  There was absolutely no reason whatsoever not to work on relieving his pain ASAP; there are non narcotic pain meds available and used liberally in ER’s.

I usually stick my own fiction in to fill in holes or explain away discrepancies so I didn't get to worked up about them suspecting an OD.  What I couldn't get past though was that Gary was the only person in the room with him while he drank the charcoal.  Hospitals want you to prove you pooped before discharging you and that's prove as in see it themselves don't just tell them you went.  But a guy who admits depression and a past suicide attempt where you have to go to his wife to force OD treatment by labeling him a threat to himself?  Sure just leave him alone with the ever trustworthy Gary who the Nurses don't know from Adam and believe he'll dutifully drink down all the stuff that two minutes ago he refused to take at all.

They could have at least had a nurse in the corner assigned to observe and saying "Listen to your friend, you're not getting out of here until you finish that".

No Ashley - Yhea! - That is all.

 

15 hours ago, doodlebug said:

Sounds like you know a lot more about this that I do.  I have heard that Beyoncé and other biggies do demand songwriting credits on everything they record to maximize their profits.  From what I understand, she might add an 'Oh baby' or some other simple phrase to an already-written song and get equal credit with the person who did all the rest of the words and lyrics.  Nice work if you can get it. 

And from such demands was born the million and counting internet arguments and counter arguments over the creativity of writing "Run The World (Girls)" vs "Bohemian Rhapsody"  (which are amusing to read but will pull you down a two hour rabbit hole of links once you start).

I did think though despite our complaints David Giuntoli dodged a bullet being cast in this show since he was originally cast in a CBS show called "Mission Control" about the lives of NASA astronauts and their families.  He'd have played one of the astronauts and by the description the show sounded truly terrible.  Even with it's plot missteps Million Things isn't too bad so at least he latched on to something successful.

Edited November 10, 2018 by sigmaforce86

[Clanstarling]

12 hours ago, HazelEyes4325 said:

Thanks for the correction!  As I said, I thought the line was something like that, but I didn't have the interest to go back and watch the episode to find out.  However, both bits still stand out to me as being contradictory to what we've been told.  And I will freely admit there may be nothing more to that than bad writing. 

My husband was the at-home parent when my kids were Theo's age, and his cooking was...basic. Seriously, it took me years to convince him to season meat. So, that didn't seem strange, I just figured it was one of those times when parents who are split try a little harder when their kids are with them.

As for the lego whatever, I assumed it was a school project. We had the probably old fashioned view that the kids should do their own projects, without help from the parents - other than buying supplies and giving encouragement.

So neither of them seemed contradictory to me.

[Scarlett45]

8 hours ago, Gothish520 said:

I don't see how that's contradictory. He said that Dad didn't help him this time, not that he never helps him. I also don't see how it's contradictory that Theo said the meal was just alright. Nowhere was it implied that Eddie never cooks for him. 

Yes. I loved the line “one iota” because that’s probably a phrase Eddie uses and Theo is mimicking him as children do. I took from that scene that he did the project on his own, which is why he was so proud- not that Eddie was neglectful regarding his school work. 

2 hours ago, Clanstarling said:

My husband was the at-home parent when my kids were Theo's age, and his cooking was...basic. Seriously, it took me years to convince him to season meat. So, that didn't seem strange, I just figured it was one of those times when parents who are split try a little harder when their kids are with them.

He’s very lucky you stayed with him- you’re a wonderful wife. Lol. 

Some people are awful cooks who only eat for survival. Some people aren’t “food” people even if they are a stay at home parent. 

[Clanstarling]

57 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

He’s very lucky you stayed with him- you’re a wonderful wife. Lol.

LOL. Fortunately, he thinks so too. 32 years and counting.

[MadeleineElster]

Wow, and I thought the show "Nashville" went downhill fast. At least the whole first season was great and had good music.  I think everyone commenting here could write a better storyline and script than the writers of this show.  You have all identified so many problems accurately and with great humor: timeline errors; ridiculous/ill-informed medical issues; characters who are oblivious to obvious issues/problems; characters who never seem to work anywhere, etc. This is a shame-- after watching the premiere, I thought this could be an interesting mystery-based plot, but it has devolved into a soap.

(And I have lived in Nashville and Austin-- believe me, getting a known performer to record your song is a huge break-- songwriters live for their songs to become famous, and they get credit on the label and a percentage every time the song is played anywhere. And--once the song is famous-- the songwriter can go on their own tour and perform the song as well. Just take a look at Jimmy Webb's career-- many of his most famous songs were recorded by Glen Campbell and others. Yet, he also sings them on his own CD's and does a lot of concerts. So that plot point was just dumb, unless they are highlighting how immature the character is-- and probably setting him up to start drinking again.) 

I initially watched because James Roday is in the cast, and I'm a big Psych fan (yes, I know how annoying he could be at times-- but that show had such a goodhearted feel about it).  I think Roday as an actor does the best he can with a script that sets him up as tone-deaf around his girlfriend. (I agree with the person who said that once he had the balloon that said "I'm in" it's time to listen and help, not guilt her into treatment. But then that also gets into the lack of depth the writers have about how cancer works.)

Part of me would like this show to survive because it is an interesting premise, but it needs to be in the hands of much better writers, who don't insult the viewers.   I think it just got renewed. Let's hope it improves. 

Loving all the comments.  This site keeps me watching the show...

[HazelEyes4325]

1 hour ago, MadeleineElster said:

Part of me would like this show to survive because it is an interesting premise, but it needs to be in the hands of much better writers, who don't insult the viewers.   I think it just got renewed. Let's hope it improves. 

 

It got a full season (17 episode) order, not a renewal yet.   I think the odds are probably in favor of a renewal, but we'll have to wait to see.   There was a noticeable dip in the ratings with this episode, which may or may not have been a fluke.  I think, ultimately, it will come down to ABC deciding if the ad dollars this show brings in is worth the money they have to put out to make the show.  I'm guessing a few of the actors here didn't come cheap.

5 hours ago, Clanstarling said:

My husband was the at-home parent when my kids were Theo's age, and his cooking was...basic. Seriously, it took me years to convince him to season meat. So, that didn't seem strange, I just figured it was one of those times when parents who are split try a little harder when their kids are with them.

As for the lego whatever, I assumed it was a school project. We had the probably old fashioned view that the kids should do their own projects, without help from the parents - other than buying supplies and giving encouragement.

So neither of them seemed contradictory to me.

I do get that about Eddie probably trying hard now that he's the non-custodial parent.  There was just something in the way Theo interacted with him in both instances, in contrast to how he interacted with Katherine, that raised all sorts of "what's going on here?" flags to me. As I said, I'm attributing this to the writers more than anything.  There *probably* isn't anything going on other than that, but it would be intriguing if there was!

[SpiritSong]

20 hours ago, Gothish520 said:

Emergency rooms can be rough. Unless you are bleeding profusely or appear to be having a heart attack, you can wait forever for tests to be run. Gina mentioning his suicide attempt put them on the overdose possibility, and she had to give the go-ahead for treatment. I am surprised they didn't give him something for the pain though.

I worked in an ER for over 10 years and those scenes were complete fantasy. They see a lot of kidney stones, and the patient would be given an IV, pain meds, a urine dipstick and analysis and x-rays. NOT put in a private room to wait for it to pass...that could take days. A patient with no symptoms of overdose, who denies taking anything, denies suicidal ideation would NOT be given a cup of activated charcoal to drink. A spouse does not get to authorize treatment for a lucid patient. And even if they did, the hospital staff does NOT hand the patient a cup of charcoal and leave the room. He would have had an NG tube inserted and it would have been given through that.

This show is just bad. I'm basically hate watching at this point. I only started it because I like Ron Livingston and he's not even in it anymore.

[Gothish520]

1 hour ago, SpiritSong said:

I worked in an ER for over 10 years and those scenes were complete fantasy. They see a lot of kidney stones, and the patient would be given an IV, pain meds, a urine dipstick and analysis and x-rays. NOT put in a private room to wait for it to pass...that could take days. A patient with no symptoms of overdose, who denies taking anything, denies suicidal ideation would NOT be given a cup of activated charcoal to drink. A spouse does not get to authorize treatment for a lucid patient. And even if they did, the hospital staff does NOT hand the patient a cup of charcoal and leave the room. He would have had an NG tube inserted and it would have been given through that.

This show is just bad. I'm basically hate watching at this point. I only started it because I like Ron Livingston and he's not even in it anymore.

I agree that Rome being put in a private room and left without medical supervision to drink the charcoal was ridiculous. But just a small point - he did not deny that he still had suicidal thoughts when asked directly by the nurse. He said nothing.

I also agree with wanting more Ron Livingston!

[ElectricBoogaloo]

17 hours ago, MadeleineElster said:

getting a known performer to record your song is a huge break-- songwriters live for their songs to become famous, and they get credit on the label and a percentage every time the song is played anywhere. And--once the song is famous-- the songwriter can go on their own tour and perform the song as well. Just take a look at Jimmy Webb's career-- many of his most famous songs were recorded by Glen Campbell and others. Yet, he also sings them on his own CD's and does a lot of concerts. So that plot point was just dumb, unless they are highlighting how immature the character is-- and probably setting him up to start drinking again.

Exactly! Having someone record your song means that you get royalties for the rest of your life. It's not just a lie that was made up for High Fidelity and Love Actually. A friend of a friend cowrote a song that was a huge hit twenty years ago and even though his royalties are split (because he didn't write the song himself), he has made enough money from that song that he has never had to have a day job aka a non-musician job since then. He gets money every time the song is played ANYWHERE. Someone sang it during an audition on American Idol and they only showed a short clip of it, but he still got paid for that ten second snippet. He's still a working musician, but that ONE song has enabled him to not worry about money anymore.

Any musician with half a brain knows this, so Eddie initially refusing to let that guy record it and then conceding but insulting him was incredibly short sighted and plain stupid. If the song became a hit, he wouldn't have to worry about how he will help pay for Theo's expenses and college tuition. If the song was a flop, well, no harm done since Eddie could still perform it or even record it himself down the line.